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Pokémon Garchomp
- Thread starter Yeah Galo Sengan
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How does Megachomp hold up against Weavile this gen? Does it get OKOed by Icicle Crash? Considering that some Jolly Weavile sets barely managed to OKO Garchomp with Ice Punch, I get the feeling that trying to use it on a full health Mega Garchomp is not the smartest idea. That physical bulk is impressive to say the least.
Kind of makes me want to try a defensive Mega Garchomp set with Sand Tomb...too bad he loses Rough Skin on mega evolution.
Kind of makes me want to try a defensive Mega Garchomp set with Sand Tomb...too bad he loses Rough Skin on mega evolution.
Bear in mind you don't HAVE to evolve him straight away (and it's often beneficial not to in order to utilize his higher speed and bluff a choice set).
Tbh, I don't feel like it's ever the preferred option to run iron head/poison jab on Garchomp
EQ hits fairies for 150 base power, Poison jab hits them for 160, Iron head doesn't even hit azumarill super effectively.
As for togekiss, Stone edge hits it for 200 base power rather than the 160 from iron head/poison jab, and also gives you coverage against flying/levitating mons without necessarily having to lock yourself into outrage.
Mega Garchomp is weird, it seems good for mixed wallbreaking sets, though it has to compete heavily with kyurem-B for that roll (which gets to hold an item), but for the standard SD set, regular chomp is far better because of its speed, and it doesn't really need the power of mega chomp (and it can use LO to get more power anyway)
EQ hits fairies for 150 base power, Poison jab hits them for 160, Iron head doesn't even hit azumarill super effectively.
As for togekiss, Stone edge hits it for 200 base power rather than the 160 from iron head/poison jab, and also gives you coverage against flying/levitating mons without necessarily having to lock yourself into outrage.
Mega Garchomp is weird, it seems good for mixed wallbreaking sets, though it has to compete heavily with kyurem-B for that roll (which gets to hold an item), but for the standard SD set, regular chomp is far better because of its speed, and it doesn't really need the power of mega chomp (and it can use LO to get more power anyway)
Unless there is something wrong with my calc tool, LO max atk Weavile pretty much destroys Megachomp with Icicle Crash.
Did he really have trouble OHKOing Garchomp with Ice Punch in gen5 because that doesn't really match with what I'm seeing?
Hm, maybe I was thinking of Ice Shard. I definately recall that -something- only barely KOed Garchomp out of Weavile's ice moveset.
That said Weavile doesn't need to use Ice Shard against Megachomp.
With Sticky Web support, Megachomp outspeeds Weavile.
I run Weavile on my team, and I run Choice Band on my Weavile, so I can OHKO all Garchomps and Mega Chomps with Ice Punch. The only thing my Weavile can't handle is Scarf-Chomp, but I use Flygon and Clefable to deal with that specific threat.
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 724-856 (202.23 - 239.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def MGarchomp: 616-732 (172.06 - 204.46%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Alternatively, you can run Ice Shard and still be able to OHKO all no-defense non-Mega Garchomps.
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 388-460 (108.37 - 128.49%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def MGarchomp: 336-396 (93.85 - 110.61%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO (Meaning you have a better chance of hitting with Stone Miss or Focus Miss)
Despite all of this... you still can't switch Weavile into Garchomp. =/
252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 279-328 (99.28 - 116.72%) -- 93.75% chance to OHKO
And that's assuming Garchomp is holding Leftovers. (Which, realistically, it won't be.)
Yes, you were thinking of Life Orb Weavile. (Which if you plan on running Weavile in OU because you're insane like I am, is bad and you shouldn't do it. To survive in OU, Weavile needs a Choice Band.)
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 343-406 (95.81 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
I mean... I guess you could run Swords Dance on Weavile in OU if you can switch in on Alakazam or Reuniclus and use a Swords Dance on a predicted switch-out... but most people aren't going to switch out of Weavile because they anticipate a Pursuit and those Mons run Focus Blast anyways.
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Are there any good non choiceband/mega stone sets dor this guy with swords Dance
I've been using a scarfchomp, and it's still groovy. I can't decide whether or not to ditch Iron Head for Poison Jab, though. Poison Jab has better coverage, but lady luck has had her hand down my pants what with all of this flinch hax I'm dishing out. Plenty of 2HKO's I wouldn't have gotten otherwise.
You might be able to squeak by the with LO Icicle Crash against normal Garchomp.
utilizing MChomp as a wallbreaker has been amazing.
due to garchomp's "lacking" speed, I have avoided using garchomp (with and without garchompite) as a sweeper.
i've not tried out stick-web team that revolves around garchomp yet but, tbh, i don't expect much from it.
that being said, using mega garchomp as a wall beaker that dishes out great damage while being exceptionally bulky has awarded my team greatly. not being able to have LO is a big con but with the sand force, he will leave a mark or two.
but again, i just had to accept the fact that garchomp will not sweep teams but be used as a wall breaker (the mixed set is truly great).
due to garchomp's "lacking" speed, I have avoided using garchomp (with and without garchompite) as a sweeper.
i've not tried out stick-web team that revolves around garchomp yet but, tbh, i don't expect much from it.
that being said, using mega garchomp as a wall beaker that dishes out great damage while being exceptionally bulky has awarded my team greatly. not being able to have LO is a big con but with the sand force, he will leave a mark or two.
but again, i just had to accept the fact that garchomp will not sweep teams but be used as a wall breaker (the mixed set is truly great).
Garchomp @garchompite
-Draco Meteor
-Dragon Claw
-Earthquake
-Fire Blast
Any have any suggestions for Evs and nature? I was thinking about naive/hasty with max attack and speed.
-Draco Meteor
-Dragon Claw
-Earthquake
-Fire Blast
Any have any suggestions for Evs and nature? I was thinking about naive/hasty with max attack and speed.
You will want some investment in special attack to score 2HKOs on bulky grounds and steels with some special defense investment. While base 120 is much higher than 80, I believe max special attack plus life orb from base 80 beats 120 with no investment and life orb. I don't have the numbers ready, but what you want to accomplish is 2HKOing Hippowdon and Gliscor with double DM, and Skarmory with DM+FB (accounting the spa drop). You might want to replace Dragon Claw for extra coverage. It doesn't do more damage than DM in most cases unless it's -2 and you're facing Goodra or something. Stone Edge is excellent to deal with Togekiss, who would otherwise wall this wallbreaker set.
Valid point, BUT I personally am so scared of Garchomp that I can't afford to gamble Icicle Crash's 10% miss chance.
I hadnt seen this posted on this thread yet but Garchomp cant get SR until Transfer comes out. I tried to breed it on him and not one Gible can with SR. Just a little tidbit of information.
92 speed is way too fast to utilise trick room effectively.
So I did some calcs and MChomp 2HKOs physically defensive Skarmory with max SpA EVs and a neutral nature.
252 SpA Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 224 HP / 32 SpD Skarmory: 138-163 (42.2 - 49.84%)
-2 252 SpA Garchomp Fire Blast vs. 224 HP / 32 SpD Skarmory: 172-204 (52.59 - 62.38%)
With leftovers recovery and rocks, it's dead (107% minimum). Only Skarmories with heavy SpD investment are guaranteed to live to tell the tale, but who invests in SpD in an unknown meta?
MChomp has about a 3/4 shot to 2HKO specially defensive Hippowdon thanks to the Sand Force boost (thanks for the sand stream!). However, it needs a +atk nature and rocks to accomplish this (stealth rock and leftovers cancel each other out).
252 SpA Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 192-226 (45.71 - 53.8%)
16+ Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Hippowdon: 214-253 (50.95 - 60.23%)
Physically defensive Hippowdon is a dead hippo no matter what.
252 SpA Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 306-361 (72.85 - 85.95%)
-2 252 SpA Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 153-181 (36.42 - 43.09%)
Gliscor is lol.
252 SpA Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 298-352 (84.65 - 100%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO
81.25% chance to OHKO with rocks.
Togekiss doesn't fare much better.
16+ Atk Garchomp Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 266-314 (71.12 - 83.95%) -- 68.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
The negative is that max Timid Togekiss outspeeds neutral max MChomp by one point. With a positive spd nature, MCHomp has a 12.5% chance to OHKO with rocks. Who uses Timid Togekiss though, am I right?
252 SpA Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 224 HP / 32 SpD Skarmory: 138-163 (42.2 - 49.84%)
-2 252 SpA Garchomp Fire Blast vs. 224 HP / 32 SpD Skarmory: 172-204 (52.59 - 62.38%)
With leftovers recovery and rocks, it's dead (107% minimum). Only Skarmories with heavy SpD investment are guaranteed to live to tell the tale, but who invests in SpD in an unknown meta?
MChomp has about a 3/4 shot to 2HKO specially defensive Hippowdon thanks to the Sand Force boost (thanks for the sand stream!). However, it needs a +atk nature and rocks to accomplish this (stealth rock and leftovers cancel each other out).
252 SpA Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 192-226 (45.71 - 53.8%)
16+ Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Hippowdon: 214-253 (50.95 - 60.23%)
Physically defensive Hippowdon is a dead hippo no matter what.
252 SpA Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 306-361 (72.85 - 85.95%)
-2 252 SpA Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 153-181 (36.42 - 43.09%)
Gliscor is lol.
252 SpA Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 298-352 (84.65 - 100%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO
81.25% chance to OHKO with rocks.
Togekiss doesn't fare much better.
16+ Atk Garchomp Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 266-314 (71.12 - 83.95%) -- 68.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
The negative is that max Timid Togekiss outspeeds neutral max MChomp by one point. With a positive spd nature, MCHomp has a 12.5% chance to OHKO with rocks. Who uses Timid Togekiss though, am I right?
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Don't forget that Draco Meteor lowers special attack by two stages, not that it matters much since Skarm is still getting destroyed by the combo
I'm pretty sure the go-to chomp set will end up being Jolly max atk/speed with dragon claw, EQ, stone edge and swords dance. You can clean up using the un evolved 102 speed against offensive teams and if you need to break past a wall, go mega. Will be very potent with speed and sand support.
Weavile doesn't learn Icicle Crash. I'm fairly certain it OHKOs with 4x Weak Ice Punch though (Gen5 Tutor / Gen6 Egg Move)
Actually, Weavile does learn Icicle Crash this generation. It is an egg move it can learn from the Beartic line. This was not possible in Gen V, but is now possible in Gen VI.
Is sand veil Garchomp still banned ATM? Just wonder as someone called me out on it but I wasn't even using sand
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