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Pokémon Aurorus
- Thread starter skies
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Hyper Voice seems nearly as powerful, plus has the ability to hit through sub.
Additionally, Aurorus probably won't *get* to the point where it'll be killed through LO recoil seeing as it's weak to literally half the priority moves in the game (mach punch, bullet punch, aqua jet; shadow sneak, water shuriken (lol), and sucker punch hits neutrally; only resists the rare extremespeed and the even rarer quick attack).
Honestly I think I Thunder Wave Supporter with attacking options will come out as the aurorus standard... maybe in UU, but likely lower.
I'm not seeing Hyper Voice anywhere in Aurorus's moves. Care to correct me? And furthermore it's hard to run more than 2 priority users on a single team just logically speaking.
Furthermore who the hell cares how difficult it is to get in LO suicide range? It's not like Aurorus really has any other offensive moves, unless you want to count STAB Ancientpower which is also laughably situational. Hyper Beam being bad isn't a problem until Aurorus is actually given better toys outside of Boltbeam coverage.
Thunder Wave support seems OK, but you don't want Refrigerate on that set. Snow Warning is then your ability of choice. I would hesitate to use him defensively due to his relatively common weaknesses though. What seems more appealing is its strong 2 move type coverage.
Furthermore who the hell cares how difficult it is to get in LO suicide range? It's not like Aurorus really has any other offensive moves, unless you want to count STAB Ancientpower which is also laughably situational. Hyper Beam being bad isn't a problem until Aurorus is actually given better toys outside of Boltbeam coverage.
Thunder Wave support seems OK, but you don't want Refrigerate on that set. Snow Warning is then your ability of choice. I would hesitate to use him defensively due to his relatively common weaknesses though. What seems more appealing is its strong 2 move type coverage.
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Porygon Z has a normal type Hyper Beam... an Ice attack is much better.
And no, 1.3x (Refrigerate) isn't the same as 1.5x (Adaptability).
"Your Pokemon Used Stone Edge! It missed!"
Congratulations your opponent now has a free turn to do whatever they want. Or...
"Your Pokemon used High Jump Kick! It missed and died and gave the opponent a free turn! You lose! :D"
Listing the worse case scenario isn't the most accurate way to describe the utility of a move.
Besides. The guy on top of the page had a good point. Just carry Ditto in reserve. They CAN set up... but it might screw them over. Not easily done if they have Volcarona since it gains resistance to the damage it's boosting. But no strategy is foolproof.
You can't predict your opponent's move missing with any reasonable degree of certainty. You can predict the Hyper Beam recharge turn 100% of the time.
Last time I checked my opponent's Banded Mienshao locked into Hi Jump Kick was anything but setup bait for my Lucario.
In a game where every turn matters, deliberately giving your opponent a free turn is a terrible idea. The only way you don't is if you are positive that Aurorus will die right after using Hyper Beam, and that's a big gamble. Why don't you just run Nature Power? It turns into Tri Attack in link battles now, which essentially gives you a slightly weaker Blizzard with perfect accuracy and a 20% chance to either freeze, burn, or paralyze the opponent. Two Tri Attacks will outdamage one Hyper Beam alongside the recharge turn, and you won't risk giving your opponent free turns.
Also, what's this deal about Porygon-Z having 4MSS? It could always get near perfect coverage with any of Dark Pulse + HP Fighting, Ice Beam + HP Ground, or Thunderbolt + Ice Beam while still having Tri Attack for STAB. Hyper Beam could easily be tossed into the fourth slot on a Choice set over Trick, but the reason that people didn't do it is because giving your opponent free turns is far too risky.
Also, what's this deal about Porygon-Z having 4MSS? It could always get near perfect coverage with any of Dark Pulse + HP Fighting, Ice Beam + HP Ground, or Thunderbolt + Ice Beam while still having Tri Attack for STAB. Hyper Beam could easily be tossed into the fourth slot on a Choice set over Trick, but the reason that people didn't do it is because giving your opponent free turns is far too risky.
I use my Aurorus as a suicidal lead Pokémon. it doesn't care about things like prankster Klefki paralysis shenanigans.
I go half and half with leftovers and Assault Vest depending on who else is in my team. if something else needs lefty's then this thing gets Assault Vest. Focus Sash is also great for taking those close combats to the face and pulling off a Hyper Beam to the opponents face!
if I'm using Substitute then Leftovers is a must.
Thunder Wave, I use Focus Sash, since your opponents speed will be less, and you will still be able to pull of your Hyper beam on most occasions. if not, then your opponent is paralysed for next Pokemon to take advantage off.
I use Ice beam on Assault vest. Whats this you say... 3 ice type moves on one Pokemon. You crazy? Yes and no. While Freeze Dry is great, its attack is still only 70, while Ice beam is 90, and will do more damage. Mainly used to scout for focus sash users and brake Sturdy.
I prefer using one with substitute though. Its great for checking on slower Pokémon if they carry anything of a threat. like say fighting or steel moves.
I go half and half with leftovers and Assault Vest depending on who else is in my team. if something else needs lefty's then this thing gets Assault Vest. Focus Sash is also great for taking those close combats to the face and pulling off a Hyper Beam to the opponents face!
if I'm using Substitute then Leftovers is a must.
Thunder Wave, I use Focus Sash, since your opponents speed will be less, and you will still be able to pull of your Hyper beam on most occasions. if not, then your opponent is paralysed for next Pokemon to take advantage off.
I use Ice beam on Assault vest. Whats this you say... 3 ice type moves on one Pokemon. You crazy? Yes and no. While Freeze Dry is great, its attack is still only 70, while Ice beam is 90, and will do more damage. Mainly used to scout for focus sash users and brake Sturdy.
I prefer using one with substitute though. Its great for checking on slower Pokémon if they carry anything of a threat. like say fighting or steel moves.
Garchompi
Banned deucer.
2013 and people still use this argument against Hyper Beam. You're not going to use it when it's painfully obvious the opponent has a setup sweeper waiting in the wings (Team preview says hello) that you can't stop, but rather as a last ditch move that can score an OHKO when everything else can't and you have a way to play around those (priority, Ditto, Prankster, etc.).
For the record I'm against Hyper Beam under normal circumstances not just because it gives the opponent a chance to setup, but because it simply isn't strong enough and Normal is a bad offensive type, so when you consider the recharge turn it's obvious the cons outweigh the pros.
However this is a ~300 BP Ice-type move we're talking about, which definitely has its merits. Last pokemon scenario after it used Calm Mind? Generic specially defensive wall who would just spam Recover over and over if you can't cleanly OHKO it? Fast flying-type who uses Roost and would be able to take another attack otherwise?
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Which means you're never using it because nearly every slightly offensive team has a set-up sweeper.
"But I said 'that you can't stop'!"
Just like you have Team Preview to see the opponent's sweepers, they have it to see your counters. They won't set up Lucario if you have a Gliscor; they'll either send out CM Keldeo or simply kill you with a free switch-in for Scarf Terrakion.
Gonna post this now since people are still listing electric moves (Thunderbolt) on Aurorus.
Thunderbolt hits these harder than Freeze Dry: (90 BP)
- Steel/Flying (Skarmory)
- other Steel types (with no secondary type that is weak to Ice or resisted by Electric)
- some Ice types (can run Ancient Power for these)
- some Fire types (can run Ancient Power for these)
Freezy Dry hits these harder than Thunderbolt: (105 BP because of STAB)
- any Dragon, Electric, Ground, Grass, Water type
- any type (combo), where they have the same multiplyer/effectiveness
Since Electric is only SE on Water and Flying, Ice is vastly superior since it is also SE on these (with Freeze Dry).
Freeze Dry is SE on: Water, Grass, Flying, Ground and Dragon
Freeze Dry is NVE on: Steel, Ice and Fire
Freeze Dry is vastly superior than Thunderbolt, except against most Steels. Special Ice attacks should be doing enough damage to Skarmory though unless they start using Steel Wing.
And chances are Thunderbolt won't be doing enough damage on Steels who resist Ice anyway. It isn't really that big of a difference.
90 BP vs
67 BP (resisted Ice Beam)
78 BP (resisted Nature Power Tri Attack)
Of course it is something, but is it really worth as a whole moveslot, just to hit a tiny bit harder? [ and more importantly, using it instead of Freeze Dry, which gives many extra 4x SE hits ]
Even Earthquake could do more, except on Bronzong.
And if you want to go that route, it can learn Dark Pulse, which is only 10 BP less than Thunderbolt, AND you can now hit some more types SE, and maybe even flinch them (if you're faster).
Although Lucario and Mawile/Keything would resist all 3 (Ice, Rock, Dark).
Also let's look at the Steels that are even hit harder by Thunderbolt than by an Ice move:
Well, like I said. It would love a special Ground move. Then it wouldn't even think about Dark Pulse or TBolt...
If you still think the little extra damage on Scizor, Skarmory, Mawile, Lucario and Klefki is important enough to warrant Thunderbolt a moveslot, then go ahead... I'm done with this.
Edit: Okay, I forgot about people using TBolt instead of Freeze Dry. That is even worse!
Thunderbolt hits these harder than Freeze Dry: (90 BP)
- Steel/Flying (Skarmory)
- other Steel types (with no secondary type that is weak to Ice or resisted by Electric)
- some Ice types (can run Ancient Power for these)
- some Fire types (can run Ancient Power for these)
Freezy Dry hits these harder than Thunderbolt: (105 BP because of STAB)
- any Dragon, Electric, Ground, Grass, Water type
- any type (combo), where they have the same multiplyer/effectiveness
Since Electric is only SE on Water and Flying, Ice is vastly superior since it is also SE on these (with Freeze Dry).
Freeze Dry is SE on: Water, Grass, Flying, Ground and Dragon
Freeze Dry is NVE on: Steel, Ice and Fire
Freeze Dry is vastly superior than Thunderbolt, except against most Steels. Special Ice attacks should be doing enough damage to Skarmory though unless they start using Steel Wing.
And chances are Thunderbolt won't be doing enough damage on Steels who resist Ice anyway. It isn't really that big of a difference.
90 BP vs
67 BP (resisted Ice Beam)
78 BP (resisted Nature Power Tri Attack)
Of course it is something, but is it really worth as a whole moveslot, just to hit a tiny bit harder? [ and more importantly, using it instead of Freeze Dry, which gives many extra 4x SE hits ]
Even Earthquake could do more, except on Bronzong.
And if you want to go that route, it can learn Dark Pulse, which is only 10 BP less than Thunderbolt, AND you can now hit some more types SE, and maybe even flinch them (if you're faster).
Although Lucario and Mawile/Keything would resist all 3 (Ice, Rock, Dark).
Also let's look at the Steels that are even hit harder by Thunderbolt than by an Ice move:
important ones where TBolt is stronger are in this color (thinking of OU)
not Magnezone
not Steelix
(Mega) Scizor
Skarmory
(Mega) Mawile
(Mega) Aggron
Metagross (hit harder by Dark Pulse)
Registeel
Jirachi (hit harder by Dark Pulse)
not Empoleon
Bastiodon
Wormadame-Steel
Bronzong (hit harder by Dark Pulse)
(Mega) Lucario
Probopass
not Dialga
Heatran (Ancient Power would be just as strong as TBolt)
Arceus-Steel
not Excadrill
Escavalier
not Ferrothorn
Klingklang
Bisharp
Durant
Cobalion
Genesect
Aegislash (hit harder by Dark Pulse)
Klefki
This leaves us with (M)Scizor, Skarmory, (M)Mawile, Lucario and Klefki.
not Magnezone
not Steelix
(Mega) Scizor
Skarmory
(Mega) Mawile
(Mega) Aggron
Metagross (hit harder by Dark Pulse)
Registeel
Jirachi (hit harder by Dark Pulse)
not Empoleon
Bastiodon
Wormadame-Steel
Bronzong (hit harder by Dark Pulse)
(Mega) Lucario
Probopass
not Dialga
Heatran (Ancient Power would be just as strong as TBolt)
Arceus-Steel
not Excadrill
Escavalier
not Ferrothorn
Klingklang
Bisharp
Durant
Cobalion
Genesect
Aegislash (hit harder by Dark Pulse)
Klefki
This leaves us with (M)Scizor, Skarmory, (M)Mawile, Lucario and Klefki.
Well, like I said. It would love a special Ground move. Then it wouldn't even think about Dark Pulse or TBolt...
If you still think the little extra damage on Scizor, Skarmory, Mawile, Lucario and Klefki is important enough to warrant Thunderbolt a moveslot, then go ahead... I'm done with this.
Edit: Okay, I forgot about people using TBolt instead of Freeze Dry. That is even worse!
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Refrigerate hypervoice=117bp more pp
Blizzard=110 bp 8pp
Snow warning is still probably better though. Wish glaceon got refrigerate, both of its abilities suck with the weather nerf.
First, don't pretend that you can easily identify all of your opponent's setup sweepers just by looking at Team Preview. Just by looking at an icon of the Pokemon, you don't know if that Scizor is Choice Band or Swords Dance, you don't know if that Keldeo is Calm Mind or Choice Scarf, you don't know if that Terrakion is Choice Band or Double Booster, you don't know much of anything about the Pokemon based on the Team Preview alone besides the fact that it exists. You can make guesses about it based on your knowledge of common playstyles, but it's still just a guess.
Also, it's not just setup sweepers that are a problem. It's literally anything that can abuse that free turn. If your opponent has an offensive Pokemon with a Substitute set, it gets one for free. Kyurem-B in particular is extremely dangerous behind a Substitute, and you just gave it a free turn to set one up. If your opponent has anything that walls Aurorus, you gave it 2 turns to heal + whatever else it wants, set up multiple hazards, etc. Even just a couple layers of hazards can be detrimental depending on what your win condition is; if you were banking on a Talonflame sweep and it needs as much health as it can get so that it can survive Flare Blitz recoil, then giving your opponent a free turn to use Stealth Rock might have just cost you the game. You also have to look out for Pokemon that can actually switch in and tank the Hyper Beam and kill off Aurorus while it's trapped into the recharge turn. If you had just used Nature Power, you could still escape from something like that and still have a 20% chance to burn, paralyze, or freeze the opponent. (Mega) Scizor can switch into Hyper Beam with ease and set up a Swords Dance or outright kill you with Bullet Punch, but it isn't going to like coming in and getting burned or frozen.
Examples? What Calm Mind users can you actually OHKO after it used Calm Mind? What if you miss the OHKO? You just gave the opponent's Calm Mind user another free boost or maybe free recovery if they're carrying such a move. Heck, why not just use Encore? You can trap the opponent into Calm Mind and get a free switch to something else on your team that can actually beat it.
Examples? Anything that is OHKO'd by Hyper Beam can just as easily be 2HKO'd by Nature Power. Nature Power also has 32 PP, so you can easily outlast most recovery moves, which generally sit at just 16 or lower. The 20% chance to inflict status can also help you here. Also, what Flying-type is going to try and stay in on an Ice/Rock type? The moment it stops Roosting, it's vulnerable to any one of Ice Beam, Freeze Dry, Thunderbolt, or Ancientpower. Some Flying-types (i.e. Talonflame, Dragonite, etc.) are vulnerable to those even if they use Roost. Alternatively, you could just Encore the Roost and get a free switch to something else and possibly free setup likewise.
If Aurorus has 140 base Special Attack and 130~ base speed alongside more passable typing (like Ice / Fighting or Ice / Ground) I could MAYBE see Hyper Beam as a 4th moveslot or a Specs set. However Aurorus is slow, frail, has bad typing, relatively unimpressive offenses and an average at best movepool.
I can absolutely see your point, even though you are wrong. Sometimes you just NEED that extra bit of firepower to remove something even at the cost of a free turn. With team preview you can intelligently weigh if that free turn will be more costly than a 300 BP Ice type Hyper Beam. However doing so will probably mean at best Aurorus will die, at worst your opponent gets a turn to set up and end the game with a counter sweep. I used to run Specs Porygon Z in gen 5 UU and I actually ran Hyper Beam in the 4th move slot for a time. However it rarely came in handy has Specs Tri-Attack slaughtered pretty much the same things, and Hyper Beam that failed to get a KO or strike something "soft" enough to do meaningful damage often meant Porygon Z would be crippled or destroyed. True I rarely would play badly enough to let something set up on me, but more often than not I would AT BEST make a 1-1 trade. I ended up switching to Trick because at least that would allow me to fuck with something and maybe have a chance of conserving Porygon Z for later.
tl;dr running it won't make you lose if you play carefully, but it will rarely actually put you ahead in the game and will generally not give you enough power to muscle past your counters. Don't use it.
Right. I forgot about 120->110.
But how are you getting 117?
Hyper voice - 90 BP + 30% = 120, Making it the same as blizzard, but better because no missing/sub dodging
Right, once again my old nemesis .3 isn't 1/3. I'll be going now.
This guy nailed it. In fact, that should be the FINAL nail on the Hyper Beam coffin. It's not really a discussion worth continuing and I can guarantee you the mods will start deleting posts that still continue to vouch for Refrigerate Hyper Beam. Refrigerate Aurorus will ALWAYS be running Nature Power for the TriAttack - it is simply a better attack to have.
Without Power Gem, I very much doubt Aurorus will leave NU. If it had it, that potent offensive combination, with Snow Warning Blizzard, would have sent it to UU easily. At the moment, with the nerf to weather, you'll see Abomasnow in UU and Aurorus in NU. Maybe in the next game it will have a Power Gem tutor and then it will be useful.
In the meantime, the most interesting thing about Aurorus is its ability to switch the weather to change its role. What I mean by this is that it can set up Sandstorm to increase its special bulk dramatically. It can come in with Snow Warning, do some damage, then use Sandstorm to help it survive some hits, all the while causing constant weather damage to everything but itself. I'm not sure if a set can be made with this, as it would probably give Aurorus 4MSS, but it's an interesting consideration, unique to Aurorus as the only Rock/Ice type, and serendipitously synergistic with its special bulk.
Nature Power does indeed become Tri-Attack this generation. So, no more Earthquakes coming out of it. Sorry, Prankster Groudon :/
Aurorus @ Leftovers
Ability: Snow warning
EVs: 4 HP / 252 speed / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Blizzard
- Thunderbolt
- Ancient power
When the hidden ability comes out, I'm running this set.
Ability: Snow warning
EVs: 4 HP / 252 speed / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Blizzard
- Thunderbolt
- Ancient power
When the hidden ability comes out, I'm running this set.
Ancient Power =/= Power Gem. I say switch that out for a different move (not that it unfortunately has a wide variety of choices)
It learns power gem? nice, yeah I will switch out ancient power
Actually it doesn't seem to learn Power Gem, so you should skip the Rock moves.
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