I like it. I think I have a place for it on a team that likes spinblocking as well as SeedSplit softening opposing mons up.
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Pokémon Gourgeist
- Thread starter Shroomisaur
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I think average size is pretty decent, as it still has good speed, and decent bulk.
Shadow Sneak could be really good for the okay-ish speed.
I think average could be uu or ru at best
Can anyone suggest a good move pool for a lax average gourgeist?
Shadow Sneak could be really good for the okay-ish speed.
I think average could be uu or ru at best
Can anyone suggest a good move pool for a lax average gourgeist?
Yes, but them using Scizor or Crobat is Predictable, and this pokemon can learn protect, so if you use protect the first turn it should avoid the Defog. Just a thought, not sure if it's worth mentioning tho.
predictable? If I was using Scizor or Crobat, I'd go for the KO before bothering with defog, but that's just me. Also, once pokebank comes out, there'll be several new flyers using defog (my personal preference will be skarmory) which can all solo gourgeist under most circumstances.
I do see your point, but I'd use protect just incase, and if you killed me the next turn, the hazards are still up, and this allows me to throw a Pokemon that can counter your defoger and one hit KO them, leaving the hazards still up, sure now you can likely throw a spinblocker in now, but it still gets damaged by them, plus I might have u-turn(Tho probally not) and if I outdpeed you throw in Another spinblocker.
Lol, tho unlikey this could happen. I just got bored thats why I mentioned this.
First of all, even when Defog Scizor becomes legal, Scizor has better things to be doing than running Defog. If it did, Gourgeist is still a perfect matchup against it, crippling Zor for the rest of the match with Will-O-Wisp. Crobat is a much more threatening switch-in, because it can use Taunt to completely shut down Gourgeist and hit hard with Brave Bird. In either case, there's not much use for Protect in those situations, unless you need to stall for an extra turn of passive damage (which is a Gourgeist specialty)!
Gourgeist's biggest problems are the heavy competition from Trevenant, which has more reliable recovery, and the fact that it's setup fodder for the likes of Talonflame and Volcarona. Rock Slide is always an option to snag a surprise KO on those two.
Gourgeist's biggest problems are the heavy competition from Trevenant, which has more reliable recovery, and the fact that it's setup fodder for the likes of Talonflame and Volcarona. Rock Slide is always an option to snag a surprise KO on those two.
The main thing about Trevenant is that its stats are less defensive than Gourgeist's. It's a tossup, though, between Trevenant's Harvest+Sitrus Berry or Natural Cure and Gourgeist's better movepool and defenses.
And I didn't even know Gourgeist could get Rock Slide. That should definitely be an option to consider if your team is afraid of Talonflame/Volcarona.
I have been using the Small-Size-Sub-Seeding Gourgeist in OU(Beta) and my god it's a monster. It can switch in on most the spinners in the tier with impunity, only fearing Ice Beam from Life Orb Starmie, Dark Pulse from Mega-Blastoise, and the extemely rare due to it's horrible typing, Avalugg. The most common spinners i'm seeing are Excadrill and Forretress who can't do anything to Gourgeist.
I've been using a spread of 252HP / 232SpD / 24Spe with a Jolly nature to outspeed Jolly Breloom. This set also outspeeds standard Bulky Attacker Rotom-W by one point, allowing you to set up a sub in it's face while it tries to WoW you. It outpaces and burns so many physical threats like Scizor and Adamant Mamoswine, and can wall Sub Toxic Gliscor and Tentacruel with a sub up. It's survivability is insanely good with Leech Seed and can use it outstall so many threats in combination with Sub and Wow.
I honestly believe this is Gourgeist's best set, setting itself apart from Trevenant who seems to outclass Super-size Gourgeist in some repects. It is definitely Ou material.
I've been using a spread of 252HP / 232SpD / 24Spe with a Jolly nature to outspeed Jolly Breloom. This set also outspeeds standard Bulky Attacker Rotom-W by one point, allowing you to set up a sub in it's face while it tries to WoW you. It outpaces and burns so many physical threats like Scizor and Adamant Mamoswine, and can wall Sub Toxic Gliscor and Tentacruel with a sub up. It's survivability is insanely good with Leech Seed and can use it outstall so many threats in combination with Sub and Wow.
I honestly believe this is Gourgeist's best set, setting itself apart from Trevenant who seems to outclass Super-size Gourgeist in some repects. It is definitely Ou material.
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May I ask what the Gourgeist set looks like? I have been trying to figure out what sets Trevenant and Gourgeist could perform better than one another.
If you go up a few posts and look at Shroomisaur's post you'll see his Gourgeist-Small analysis which is very good. But I use this set:
Gourgeist-Small @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 232 SDef / 24 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Phantom Force
- Will-O-Wisp
Which has been doing very well as part of my defensive core with Specially Defensive T-Tar and Physically Defensive Rotom-W.
I see. I have been a big fan of Leech Seed, Will-O-Wisp, and Phantom Force on the same set. How have you found Substitute to be working for you? Does your spread outpace the same things as the one in Shroomisaur's analysis?
Yeah mine would be the same speed but cause it's Jolly it skips the 263 needed to outspeed Jolly Breloom and goes to 264. If you're running physical bulk rather than special then Shroom's spread is a more efficient use of EV's. I like the special bulk and extra speed point cause it allows me to deal with Rotom-W and things like that better, but you should run whatever would suit your team.
Substitute is really good as, once things are burned in can generally survive a hit without breaking. It is also essential for blocking status, which as i said above allows it to deal with Gliscor, and prevent Sub Toxic Tentacruel from wearing you down and getting off the spin. Also because of Gourgeist-S's low HP the recovery from Leech Seed and Leftovers is often enough to mostly make up for your Sub.
Has anyone considered the largest Gourghiest as a suicide TR setter? TR into Explosion?
Why would you waste such a good bulky Pokemon? Save the explosion for when he has low Hp.
To answer your question, because of its significantly better physical bulk which lets it take random coverage moves you might run into and repeated hits more effectively, i'd probably say Gourgeist-S is the best option for dealing with Mega Kangaskhan out of the two. This same physical bulk lets Gourgeist deal with certain physical Pokemon other than Mega Kangaskhan more effectively than trevenant as well, although Trevenant's recovery in Harvest Lumrest/Sitrus Berry makes up for that somewhat. Although i feel like both mons deal with mega kanga pretty decently looking at its standard set, so you'd probably be decently off either way.
Hope i helped!
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Super Size with Leftovers (+Def -SpA)
Leech Seed
Will-o-wisp
Phantom Force
Rock Slide
252 HP, Rest in Attack and Defense.
Been planning my second X team, and Gourgiest Is my key Physcal Bulk. I was thinking this set: Phantom Force gives you an extra turn of leech seed healing and W-o-W damage. Sure they CAN switch, but that leads another pokemon to getting burned, and seeded. Rock Slide, while not having the STAB that Seed Bomb has, Hits those pesky FLying and Fire pokemon she is weak to, and wrecks Talon Flame(She should survived a Brave Bird with her natural Bulk, then OHKO with Rock Slide)
Large Size With Life Orb/Leftovers(Adamant Nature)
Flame Charge
Phantom Force
Rock Slide
Leech Seed
My Other Set Idea.... I think people will not like, but I kinda do. This let's you do something with her... ok 69 speed, while not losing too much attack and HP. She will still have the bulk to take a hit or 2 thanks to leech seed healing and Leftovers, and 2 Flame charges SHOULD let her outrun a bunch of things...
Leech Seed
Will-o-wisp
Phantom Force
Rock Slide
252 HP, Rest in Attack and Defense.
Been planning my second X team, and Gourgiest Is my key Physcal Bulk. I was thinking this set: Phantom Force gives you an extra turn of leech seed healing and W-o-W damage. Sure they CAN switch, but that leads another pokemon to getting burned, and seeded. Rock Slide, while not having the STAB that Seed Bomb has, Hits those pesky FLying and Fire pokemon she is weak to, and wrecks Talon Flame(She should survived a Brave Bird with her natural Bulk, then OHKO with Rock Slide)
Large Size With Life Orb/Leftovers(Adamant Nature)
Flame Charge
Phantom Force
Rock Slide
Leech Seed
My Other Set Idea.... I think people will not like, but I kinda do. This let's you do something with her... ok 69 speed, while not losing too much attack and HP. She will still have the bulk to take a hit or 2 thanks to leech seed healing and Leftovers, and 2 Flame charges SHOULD let her outrun a bunch of things...
Super size is considerably the best form of Gourgeist. Why would you use the smaller ones if the only thing they provide is slightly more speed? The great bulk and defensive typing Gourgeist has shouldn't go to waste just for a slight speed increase, he doesn't need the speed, especially considering the fastest one doesn't even get to base 100.
I'd take super size Gourgeist over any of its smaller forms or Trevenant any day.
I'd take super size Gourgeist over any of its smaller forms or Trevenant any day.
All Gourgeist forms have equal BST, and having BST concentrated in Speed isn't automatically a bad thing by any means. Deoxys-S has ended up Uber several times, after all.
It's not a small change in speed it's a huge change in speed! Base 54 is slower than things like Tyranitar and Aegislash, whereas base 99 can outspeed Hydreigon, Kyurem-B, and Haxorus.
Of course running max speed on Gourgeist is not very beneficial, but Small Gourgiest can run just a small investment in speed to outspeed and burn certain key threats, while retaining a large ammount of bulk due to its base 122 defense stat.
Excadrill is the best spinner on the OU beta ladder right now (the most common ghosts are Aegislash and Gengar), so Gourgeist and Trevenant have at least a temporary use in being a sort of anti-metagame tool against it. Other than that, I don't have much else to say about it.
Thanks! Was wondering how you determine the size of the Gourgeist :o
I believe it's random, but last time I thought something I was wrong.
The size of a baby Pumpkaboo depends on the size of the mother. If the mom's size is super, then the baby will always be super. With Ditto, whatever size the non-Ditto parent is will be the size of the baby.
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