Pokémon Trevenant

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EtherDrive said:
Why on earth would you ever curse first before Substituting.................................

if you are not in danger of getting OHKO'd,you are guaranteed to get a substitute up provided you move last. From there you can protect to get the sitrus regen and (Majority of the time) get back to over 50% life and sometimes back to 70 ish, which is enough to use curse.

from there it's as simple as protect -> Sub mashing/Phantom Force(if your sub is still up or you're not taking more than 50% damage and have the health) -> Protect again to get sitrus regen if needed and stall till curse kills. if you are in danger of getting KO'd by some super powerful super effective move and your sub is already down and you didn't spam it again to annoy them, You protect for curse to take the 1/4 and then YOU SWITCH OUT. People are starting to carry taunt users in the higher ratings, making Curse Stall alot more viable and useful compared to sub seed with WoW because you can actually stall for 2 turns with PF if they switch a taunter in on you. Sub/Seed/WoW is too predictable, easily dealt with, and hardly ever sets up the situation where you can bring in CB Scizor/Talon flame and clean up the match late game.

as someone who has been using trevenant both in game and on simulator in practically every team, Curse/Protect/Substitute/Phantom Force is the superior set
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Except you're never going to ever keep a Sub up against a Shadow Claw unless they're burned and you're physically defensive, so you're already fighting a losing battle- 50% of the time you're going to outspeed the first turn and waste 25% of your health, which means you can't set up subs any more because if you sub again it'll either go last, in which case you'll fail to set up sub because Shadow Claw will ruin you, or you'll go first, in which case its just the same situation as before, but you're just playing against the odds. Even if you go last on the first turn at best you can manage a roughly even HP exchange, because nobody is going to stay in once Cursed.

And this is presuming they run Shadow Claw, Phantom Force rips you a new one.

Quite honestly though in any Trevenant vs Trevenant scenario I wouldn't feel safe no matter what my set is, safest action is to switch out.
 
Actually, Trevenant benefits a fair amount from speed increases.

I run him as an alternate pass recipient to Scoliopede if I cant get off anything more than a Protect > Baton Pass to something else on my team. Trevenant *really* appreciates getting will-o-wisps and subs off before his target attacks him. He becomes near uncrackable at +2 speed, short of an infiltrator.
 
It seems to me that Curse would pair better with Protect than Sub. Assuming Trev has come in and forced your opponent to switch to something strong enough to break his Subs...

Sub + WoW/LS:
1) Trev Subs as the opponent switches (Trev: 75%, Opponent: 100%)
2) Opponent breaks the sub as Trev uses LS/WoW (Trev: 75% + possible LS recovery, Opponent: 87.5%)

Protect + Curse:
1) Trev Curses as the opponent switches, activating Sitrus (Trev: 75%, Opponent: 75%)
2) Trev Protects while opponent tries to attack (Trev: 75%, Opponent: 50%)

In both scenarios, after turn 2, you're at about the same health percentage and you're not behind a Sub. If you rely on WoW to cripple opposing physical sweepers, obviously you're going to prefer the first scenario, but otherwise I'd say the second scenario puts you in a better position. Your opponent has to be able to deal over 50% to you or they have to switch out before they die - if they deal <50%, Harvest can activate, making their 2HKO into a 3HKO. It's even harder if you run Phantom Force since then they absolutely have to be able to deal 75% to you or they lose.

Also worth noting that Curse is completely unblockable and 100% accurate.

ETA: Oh, and if they do between 50-74%, they'll die while taking you out. So there's that, too.
 
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meteor64 said:
Except you're never going to ever keep a Sub up against a Shadow Claw unless they're burned and you're physically defensive, so you're already fighting a losing battle- 50% of the time you're going to outspeed the first turn and waste 25% of your health, which means you can't set up subs any more because if you sub again it'll either go last, in which case you'll fail to set up sub because Shadow Claw will ruin you, or you'll go first, in which case its just the same situation as before, but you're just playing against the odds. Even if you go last on the first turn at best you can manage a roughly even HP exchange, because nobody is going to stay in once Cursed.

And this is presuming they run Shadow Claw, Phantom Force rips you a new one.

Quite honestly though in any Trevenant vs Trevenant scenario I wouldn't feel safe no matter what my set is, safest action is to switch out.
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Does ditto not run choice scarf anymore?

If the only attacking move you have is phantom force subbing turn 1 is even better because (atleast on the simulator) Phantom force does not go through subs and takes 2 turns, free sub chances. So after you curse, if you're still in danger of getting OHKO'd by shadow claw because u subbed turn 1, and cursed turn 2 and your sub is broken(I don't like shadow claw on a curse set), Protect and switch out, use Trev later

If you're Physically defensive with no attack investment are you getting OHKO'd? Because if not and you're against a ditto (that's scarfed) you should always be using substitute first, in every scenario(not just against ditto) if you want to use curse stall
 
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Actually, I think I'm getting the hitting through Sub thing mixed with Protect, so never mind Phantom Force.

I don't really consider Ditto the same as another Trevenant for the purposes of a Trev vs Trev argument, since with Ditto you know exactly what set it has and what its options are. Its completely different to actually facing down another Trev who could be carrying any variation of EVs and movepool that may or may not beat you. Burning a Sitrus build is good, but burning a Lum variant isn't. A Protect Trev is not so great against a Phantom Force Trev, but then Sub Trev beats that, but then you're limited in effectiveness against Shadow Claw Trevs...
 
Ryolain said:
It seems to me that Curse would pair better with Protect than Sub. Assuming Trev has come in and forced your opponent to switch to something strong enough to break his Subs...

Sub + WoW/LS:
1) Trev Subs as the opponent switches (Trev: 75%, Opponent: 100%)
2) Opponent breaks the sub as Trev uses LS/WoW (Trev: 75% + possible LS recovery, Opponent: 87.5%)

Protect + Curse:
1) Trev Curses as the opponent switches, activating Sitrus (Trev: 75%, Opponent: 75%)
2) Trev Protects while opponent tries to attack (Trev: 75%, Opponent: 50%)

In both scenarios, after turn 2, you're at about the same health percentage and you're not behind a Sub. If you rely on WoW to cripple opposing physical sweepers, obviously you're going to prefer the first scenario, but otherwise I'd say the second scenario puts you in a better position. Your opponent has to be able to deal over 50% to you or they have to switch out before they die - if they deal <50%, Harvest can activate, making their 2HKO into a 3HKO. It's even harder if you run Phantom Force since then they absolutely have to be able to deal 75% to you or they lose.

Also worth noting that Curse is completely unblockable and 100% accurate.

ETA: Oh, and if they do between 50-74%, they'll die while taking you out. So there's that, too.
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Finally, somebody who understands the utility of curse. It completely crushes the opponent momentum, as can even be used like memento. I've been using with eviolite dusclops and pain split, and people in the chatroom laugh until they find that dusclops has burned their sweeper, cursed the switch in, protected, the pain splited the next switch, and repeating. Its a great strategy, spreading burns and general 25% damage, when stacked with hazards is amazing. Also, curse is transfered via baton pass. Imagine, froslass getting free set up against the now popular scolipede lead, while spreading massive passive damage, and spikes stacking w/ curse. Think about that.
 
SuperMeep said:
Finally, somebody who understands the utility of curse. It completely crushes the opponent momentum, as can even be used like memento. I've been using with eviolite dusclops and pain split, and people in the chatroom laugh until they find that dusclops has burned their sweeper, cursed the switch in, protected, the pain splited the next switch, and repeating. Its a great strategy, spreading burns and general 25% damage, when stacked with hazards is amazing. Also, curse is transfered via baton pass. Imagine, froslass getting free set up against the now popular scolipede lead, while spreading massive passive damage, and spikes stacking w/ curse. Think about that.
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I've been using Curse Trev as a lead since that way it's guaranteed to start its work with 100% HP and it's pretty entertaining. I like LS over WoW mainly because Heatran is such an asshole and it's everywhere now to counter Genesect/Talonflame. It also gives you additional recovery to ease the pain of Curse and it can't be blocked if the opponent already has status, which is beneficial for my team since I run ToxiStall Gliscor.
 
Josh Morales said:
No harvest Lum set with Wood hammer, WoW, Leech Seed, and Rest?
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Unless you're running some kind of unique EV spread that serves a certain purpose this is really just a variation of every other LumRest set.

TheEpicBro said:
The set is viable, it is seen however that ChestoResto is a better strategy as you don't burn off (pun intended) the lum berry and wait for it to harvest again.
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I think both berries have their merits, the fact that Lum gets eaten by other status moves can actually be a boon against opponents who try to poison/burn you expecting a Sitrus set. I ran it for a little while and I can't tell you how many people would go for Toxic/WoW against him and give me a completely free turn to set up a Sub.
 
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TheEpicBro said:
The set is viable, it is seen however that ChestoResto is a better strategy as you don't burn off (pun intended) the lum berry and wait for it to harvest again.
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Yeah, this argument was already done a few pages back, Lum is generally better. Its very rare to be in a situation where you're actually worried about your lum berry, especially since Rest in itself allows you to stall another turn for it. Not to mention Lum allows you to not waste a turn Resting whenever you're statused, which is crucial for maintaining momentum.
 
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Has anyone thought of trying out Destiny Bond to act as a faux substitute without having to sacrifice HP to put it into place for a Curse set?

Curse
Will-o-Wisp
Destiny Bond
Protect

The standard Trevenant thing is to switch in on something it can threaten with a burn and setup a sub on the switch, however, if you simply destiny bond on the switch as they move to a counter then something like, say, Heatran, is effectively locked from KOing with Fire Blast the following turn while you an setup a Curse with impunity, there by only being down to 75% hp guaranteed and having a chance to regrow your berry at end of turn, rather than being down to 50% hp with only a 1/2 chance to be at 75% hp and have no berry at all for the following turn.

After Destiny bond ends then Trevenant can Protect the following turn, giving it a 75% chance in total to have a fresh berry stocked for the next switchin and incurring 50% Curse damage on its counter that it can not respond to without killing itself the turn prior, or, if the opponents can not crack Trevenant in a single attack, Trevenant can Destiny Bond back to back to extend the number of turns it can effectively not be attacked to rack up residual damage or finally force the switch into a new Curse target.

The large amount of switches this can force, while still maintaining HP advantage over a traditional Sub/Curse set, allows for much easier spread of Will-o-Wisp, which is the main goal of Spooky Tree, while racking up incredible amounts of hazard damage as well if your team is built to abuse it.

The only downside is that you are much more prone to status inflictions and Destiny Bond, while using it repeatedly will be a flawless defense on pain of death to the enemy, does not have nearly the PP stall capability of Substitute. Still, 8 turns is plenty to even completely kill something with Curse damage alone, and can be greatly extended with good prediction and Protect.
 
I've tried an alternate EV spread of 128 Def / 244 HP / 132 Spe. It's the same as the standard Harvest EV spread, except 8 EVs are shifted from HP to Defense. With this spread, Trevenant reaches 372 HP, which is divisible by four. This allows Trevenant to activate Sitrus after two subs, which will occasionally grant you an extra turn of Harvest. This probably doesn't make much of a difference in most scenarios, but there are specific situations where being at 25% more health could be life saving.
 
ive tried using the jolly trevenant and he seems to be doing well put some sp.d evs into it and a lot of speed and hes got the bulk to take a ice beam from greninja
 
Does Magic Mirror bounce Curse back? Because I know a lot of people like Espeon in their BP chains.

I still think if you're relying on HP percentage moves you should go for less HP and not more, particularly Sub, Curse and Leech Seed.
 
Curse should pierce through Magic Bounce/Coat if nothing changed in Gen6.
It did so before at least.
 
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Magic Bounce does not reflect Curse. As an added bonus, BP also passes the Cursed status, so it really screws up any BP chains.

Trev isn't bulky enough to not invest in HP, maxing his defenses doesn't compensate for losing fewer points of HP when you use Sub/Curse. It also makes his Subs easier to break - max HP/SDef laughs off stuff like Volt Switch, allowing you to keep your Sub and basically get 2 free turns.
 
I feel like Trevenant's main job is not really that of spinblocker because there are better pokes to take on Starmie and friends, and if/when defog becomes a thing it won't even matter anyway. I feel that it's typing and wonderful recovery options along with willo-wisp makes him a good physical wall/status absorber/spreader. A set with leech seed, rest, and a lum berry will be ridiculously hard to take out, all the while spreading burn/leech seed and doing decent chip damage with shadow claw.

So far a favorite of mine for gen VI.
 
Dragontamer said:
Why not just Curse on the switch, and then use Protect? Same situation as before, except you've got more moveslots available.
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Better scouting opportunities, better stalling out for further curse damage if they cant 1shot you from 75%, and legitimate use of Destiny Bond to kill something later in the match.

A turn you spend Protecting after a raw Curse is a turn the enemy gets a free switch into whatever they want after only taking 25% and you have done nothing to prep for the new switchin.
 
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