Other Stall

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Due to clerics normally being setup bait, I like to run them with Unaware Quagsire, so even if my opponent took the opportunity to setup with the turn I gave them, it doesn't lead to anything favorable for them.

Also, both Audino an Alomomola have access to knockoff, and I have no words for how incredibly useful it is for stall teams to be able to knock off opposing leftovers/choice bands/life orbs and have this capability on a pokemon you're normally going to be pivoting to anyway. On avrage I think I take out half of my opponent's items throughout a game just with Audino, and 5 to 6 items a game if I'm running both Audino and Alomomola as a defensive wish passing/pivot core.
 
Yes, i've been using Audino for a while (i think i'm the only one lol... maybe Audino came up because someone saw me using it?), though it's not a stall team. It actually does the job pretty well, considering the meta isn't as offensive as before. The problem is that Audino is no Blissey, it just won't just stay there walling everything all day... and Blissey Wishes are just damn good. I think Audino would work better on a balanced team like mine, since passing Wishes on this kind of team are way more crucial than with stall.
Alomomola fits well on a stall but then it loses Heal Bell...

You can pair 2 Wish passers to bypass the problem of passers worning down (kinda), and Alomomola + Blissey are decent together, since both have massive Wishes, and one is physically bulky while the other is specially oriented (and one has Regenerator while the other has Heal Bell/Aromatherapy)...
Of course, Wish Blissey can't be used now... am i right? At least until Pokebank is out... i guess? I don't know lol
 
Rather than using regenerator mons that are mostly just outclassed (Audino by the blobs and Alomomola by Vaporeon), I've found the best solution to wish passers being worn down is just using a second recovery move over Protect whenever possible. The easiest way to wear down a wish passer is swapping to a setup sweeper that it can't wall as it uses Wish, making it too risky for it to stay in to Protect. A second recovery move lets you heal yourself when necessary and pass later without fear of being worn down. Outside of scouting Choice users, Protect isn't missed too much and the rewards far outweigh the cost. Obviously most Wish users don't actually get a second recovery move though... Chansey, Clefable, and maybe like Togekiss are the main things that can pull this off.
 
The only thing I do not like about that is that that is still two turns sacrificed at minimum, one to recover and another to wish; and you can't wish then recover as your wish will be wasted.

I like the regenerators because, even if they are not walls in themselves (seriously, do not treat them like walls. They get in, do their job, and get out. The less turns they are in play, the better) they only ever need one turn to maintain your team and keep themselves going to do it again later at little cost.

I would argue that, while Blissy is no doubt a better wall than Audino, it is still a worse cleric; so that is a preference of which aspect you need to capitalize on more in your team.
Though Vaporeon being strictly better than Alomomola I would contest. Alo is a bit more physically bulkier, actually, and passes larger wishes. As long as you have another source for healbell on your team (like the previously mentioned Alomomola+Blissy pair) then I would say the fish is better in that regard.
 
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Well i was also thinking a dedicated cleric vaporeon could help mitigate that with Roar; in general i think having a phazing move would be a good idea on a cleric simply to discourage setup.

It could also serve as a way to discourage Rotom from coming in on you, dropping a Roar expecting Rotom to come in, gaining an extra turn of SR damage on something which you can (hopefully) wish safely on.
 
Nysyr said:
So I ran into a physical sub variant of kyu-b, and I was at a complete loss if how to beat it with a stall team. Didn't help that it had a magnezone along side it.
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Couldn't you use Skarmory to simply Whirlwind him out and abuse his Stealth Rock weakness and the fact he's using Sub too? Poison Spikes also wouldn't protect him from status.
 
Liarliarpantsonfire said:
Kyurem-B is not all that common so I wouldn't be that concerned about having a solid counter to it.
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Actually the Sub+3 attack/Sub+Hone claws variant is really dangerous when used at the right moment.

So as for stall I am going to say that it becomes less viable with each gen just because of how many Pokemon are introduced with every each on of them having a nice niche which makes stall teams harder to make/work with as they have to wall every Pokemon, even the ones that are not really consider as threats. But I have to say that this Gen, Unaware might be more viable than ever with so many Pokes trying to set up... And the best user? Clefable.. Physically defensive Cosmic Power Clefable.. (I find Quagsire to not be a good user of the ability imo.)
 
GarchompPit said:
Actually the Sub+3 attack/Sub+Hone claws variant is really dangerous when used at the right moment.

So as for stall I am going to say that it becomes less viable with each gen just because of how many Pokemon are introduced with every each on of them having a nice niche which makes stall teams harder to make/work with as they have to wall every Pokemon, even the ones that are not really consider as threats. But I have to say that this Gen, Unaware might be more viable than ever with so many Pokes trying to set up... And the best user? Clefable.. Physically defensive Cosmic Power Clefable.. (I find Quagsire to not be a good user of the ability imo.)
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For the record, Tera Volt ignores Unaware, so clefable will still have issues with the Hone Claws set
 
SupremeDirt said:
Well i was also thinking a dedicated cleric vaporeon could help mitigate that with Roar; in general i think having a phazing move would be a good idea on a cleric simply to discourage setup.
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I actually run Yawn on Audino for a faux phasing move. Very rarely will they stay in no matter what they bring in. Worst comes to worse they just volt-turn out, ignoring the drowsy, and I get a wish up to pass to something else or just yawn on the next thing.
 
GarchompPit said:
So as for stall I am going to say that it becomes less viable with each gen just because of how many Pokemon are introduced with every each on of them having a nice niche which makes stall teams harder to make/work with as they have to wall every Pokemon, even the ones that are not really consider as threats.
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Stall teams have to wall every pokemon? Since when? I'm pretty sure that's impossible, and it has been since competitive pokemon started for that matter. Like I said, it's more reasonable to wall as many of the most common threats as possible, rather than trying to accomplish the impossible. A flawless team does not exist, you can only try to get close to it, but you'll never achieve it.
 
Jaroda said:
Doesn't he still get Whirlwinded out? Magnezone can't switch into a Whirlwind, he'd have to be dragged in. It's still a relatively safe option considering how standard Skarm is for stall.
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Ah fair enough.
I've also been thinking about potential for Steelix.. though the Ground weakness severely hurts it. I haven't done calcs yet. I might look into it more later, after work.
GarchompPit said:
I was not referring to countering Kyurem-B.. I was talking for stall in general and the changes that it had this Gen
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oh ok; yeah i've been generally impressed with Clefable at walling most setup sweepers. Though i did try to make it do too much tbh when i used it, namely being a cleric at the same time.
 
Liarliarpantsonfire said:
Stall teams have to wall every pokemon? Since when? I'm pretty sure that's impossible, and it has been since competitive pokemon started for that matter. Like I said, it's more reasonable to wall as many of the most common threats as possible, rather than trying to accomplish the impossible. A flawless team does not exist, you can only try to get close to it, but you'll never achieve it.
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I do know that. :P But you know how many variants are to a Jirachi? Scarf, SubCM, CM offensive, CM Defensive, Specially defensive, Physically defensive. And like you said a stall team requires to counter Rank A-B-C threats. And with this Gen Jirachi might get another set like a CB set. See where I'm going? ;p (I you want to we can continue this conv. through a PM so we won't spam the whole threat)
 
I realize what you meant to say, but you literally said that stall teams have to wall every pokemon. Also, while a new generation introduces new pokemon and new sets for previous pokemon, it also causes old sets to drop in usage, even disappear in some cases. Essentially it's just an entirely new metagame that doesn't necessarily include more threats to watch out for. Just to give an example: permanent weather got nerfed significantly in the transition from BW to XY. Four different team archetypes are now rarely seen while they were omnipresent last generation. Stall definitely needs to adapt to the new metagame, but that applies to every team archetype. It's not like a new generation is this huge obstacle that stall can't fully overcome. In fact I could argue that stall is the strongest it has been since 3th gen (where you basically had to run Duggy and Magneton to overcome SkarmBliss), but I'd digress.
 
13_luckynumber said:
What can a stall team do against magic guard users? Team with Calm Mind Clefable sweeps stall teams if it is a last mon.
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I see to it that when I'm building a stall team, it is mandatory for me to include a Perish Song user. Pokemon like Politoed, Meloetta and Celebi are all capable of performing the role. It's a reliable counter to boosting threats such as Latias, Reuniclus, Clefable, and Sigilyph.
 
IInative said:
I gotta say that, Gliscor can pretty stall all day everyday with Poison Heal.:v4:
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While that is true, this is a thread about the stall playstyle. Gliscor is really good on semi-stall for wearing down threats quickly, however, due to its relative frailty (when compared to things like skarmory and hippowdon) and a four times weakness to ice, it isn't the best for stall especially considering that gliscor would often get hit by something like ice punch when up against the fighting types that gliscor should be walling.
 
Sorry for double posting, but this comment is completely unrelated to what i wrote above. Would azumaril be helpful? From what I understand, a lot of current stall teams struggle with fighting and dark. Azumaril just so happens to take both of those very well. Azumaril also has resistances to ice and fire which are two commonly used elemental punches on fighting types and takes neutral damage from rock and steel and resistance to ice which commonly accompany dark type attacks. Azumaril has access to moves like perish song and encore to prevent sweeps, hits hard enough to chip away at opponents on a switch, and has one or two immunities (depending on how much you care about its offensive prowess). This all comes with a respectable 100-80-80 defensive spread and the ability to dispatch weakened threats with aqua jet. Azumaril does suffer from a lack of recovery options and isn't the bulkiest Pokemon in the game, but it seems like an interesting option for anyone with a stall team that struggles against things like conkeldurr, weaville, defensive water types, defensive ttar builds, etc. While I certainly don't expect azumarill to become a stall staple, I do believe it could be an interesting add onto a few teams that run cleric support that struggle against many of the threats I listed.
 
I am currently running stall and having some success with a Furfrou, Sableye, Florges defensive core and a splash of a defensive Aegislash to stall and setup on a team(The last two pokemon are pending, Evo. Dusclops, Mega Venusaur, Roserade... Whimsicott or other stallers post Pokebank?). One of the major issues I run into, however, is a lot of the fully offensive Megas, such as Lucario and Garchomp, who can turn one start ramming into my walls with almost free, and rather insane, power rush down my walls way too fast... if only there was hazards for Attack and Special Attack lowering x.x
 
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