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chaostothemax, I agree with you that GameFreak is caught between a rock and a hard place with regards to either making the game too linear or obliterating the story. I haven't ever really played other RPGs outside a couple of Paper Mario games (which are unashamedly linear, even more so than Pokemon games), but they all face the same problem so it would be nice to hear from someone more familiar with them how the likes of Final Fantasy cope with this dilemma.
AOPSUser, your idea has potential, but Pokemon is a series of RPGs, not turn-based strategy games. I have a feeling that playing through the game in such a way would have issues:
- Suddenly what Pokemon are good in-game is really important, and you will find it almost impossible to progress through the game unless you bring the right Pokemon. This means, on my first playthrough, I am going to have to do online research beforehand etc, which I'd really rather stay clear of. In addition, because you can no longer go through the game with any old garbage team, the game's replay value is massively decreased.
- The game would not really be about strategy like competitive battling is about strategy - it would become about recognizing the AI and exploiting it to the nth degree, somewhat like the strategies for long win-streaks in Battle Maison & equivalents. A good game shouldn't be about exploiting AI.
AOPSUser, your idea actually sounds awesome for a Pokemon World Tournament comeback. It would never work for a main game run-through, but it would make for an awesome post-game thing.
noobcubed, I was referring more to the fact that we couldn't make it linear without trashing the framework that's already set up. It's definitely possible, but it would take more effort and restructuring than GF is probably willing to give.
Honestly, if they could just make the maps a bit more divergent I would be happy.
Just look at Black / White's map -- It's literally a streamline up until the pokemon league.
X/Y? Same thing. A few more stops along the way but that's it.
Platinum did a really good job of this in my opinion. I haven't played the Gen 1 - 3 games in ages so I can't really judge those.
Essentially what i'm trying to say is; a bit more exploration.
It's not just the gyms that have the level problem, though - in fact, it's mostly what you encounter on the way. The trainers and wild Pokemon. How are you going to fix them so you can go in whichever order you please without either:
1) scaling them according to your party, which screws up the wild 'mons for the endgame.
2) having them all at an annoyingly low level, which is g/s/c all over again.
I have an interesting idea. How about customizeable gym leaders and major trainers? This would increase the replay value of the game and allow you to customize the difficulty of your experience. I don't think the programming has to be too complex all you would have to do is program some conversations based on some common archetypes.
I have an interesting idea. How about customizable gym leaders and major trainers? This would increase the replay value of the game and allow you to customize the difficulty of your experience. I don't think the programming has to be too complex all you would have to do is program some conversations based on some common archetypes.
I think the AI is what needs to be stepped up, as has been said earlier. Bug gym? Run quiver dance Volcarona. Or better yet, change the gyms from their typing to a style, like a boosting baton-pass gym or a stall gym. That way, kids could learn how to play Pokémon like the professionals.
I think the AI is what needs to be stepped up, as has been said earlier. Bug gym? Run quiver dance Volcarona. Or better yet, change the gyms from their typing to a style, like a boosting baton-pass gym or a stall gym. That way, kids could learn how to play Pokémon like the professionals.
Remember that the player, especially on his first run-through of a new game, cannot expect to have Pokemon with competitive movesets, EVs etc. Also remember, that, for the second or third gym, the leader having a Volcarona would be totally unfair - a Masquerain or similar would probably be more appropriate. Even players who are raising competitive Pokemon leave that until the post-game. To some extent, this is what the Battle Maison etc is for - to a greater extent, this is what the VGCs and Smogon are for.
With all the talk here, you've got to consider the target audience is kids - kids that will likely never enter the serious competitive scene. Most people here do at least dabble in it, know the type match-ups and likely move sets by heart. We know how to analyze and overcome the type match-ups very quickly and easily to the point we invent new challenges like Nuzlocke, Wonderlocke, turning off Exp Share. Simply put, we're OVERQUALIFIED for these games. The problem is there's nothing out there we can "graduate" to that offers a similar gaming experience.
Aside from difficulty levels, there's not really a way to reconcile our gaming needs with those of the target audience, which turns out each new generation. As of now, our best challenge is each other.
There could be game modes, for different options. Preferably unlocked at the start.
Super Easy would be BW2's Easy mode.
Easy would be what we have now.
Medium would be BW2's challenge mode.
Hard would be BW2's challenge mode,with improved AI.
Very Hard could be trainers with ideas for very challenging things we've been coming up with.
Example Very Hard mode-things could be things like a Cosmic Power/Recover or its cloness/Mind Reader or Lock On/Sheer Cold Smeargle holding Leftovers for an early-game Normal Gym. It would start off by Cosmic Powering, then using its recovery move if under 50% HP. If it can last long enough, it will try using Mind Reader and then Sheer Cold. Would have to be early-game as Smeargle has bad bulk mid or late-game.
Perhaps also a Quiver Dance/Giga Drain/Bug Buzz/Hurricane Volcarona holding a Life Orb in a late-game gym (which would use certain strategies, not types) specializing in rain. It would Quiver Dance, and then use the most effective attack of its three that it knows. If it is damaged and can KO with Giga Drain, then it will always use Giga Drain.
For the Champion, a Recover/Calm Mind/Stored Power/Toxic Latias holding a Soul Dew could make a great challenge. It would lead with Toxic against any pokemon, and then set up Calm Mind boosts. If below 50% HP, it will use Recover. If Stored Power can KO, or it has +6Special Defense, then it will use Stored Power.
Those would be the kind of things Very Hard mode could have.
Perhaps the game modes could completely change the major trainer's teams.
If there were a Ice-type gym for the 8th gym, there could be large variety. Examples:
I'm gonna go with Other on this one as I really want gamefreak to bring back the vs.seeker.That thing was the most handiest thing in Diamond and Pearl and I was really disappointed when they didn't bring it back.Training your pokemon in the wild takes too long and the battle chateau and restaurants just don't work out for me.So yeah that's what I feel what they should improve on,everything else is how it should be.
Remember that the player, especially on his first run-through of a new game, cannot expect to have Pokemon with competitive movesets, EVs etc. Also remember, that, for the second or third gym, the leader having a Volcarona would be totally unfair - a Masquerain or similar would probably be more appropriate. Even players who are raising competitive Pokemon leave that until the post-game. To some extent, this is what the Battle Maison etc is for - to a greater extent, this is what the VGCs and Smogon are for.
That's a fair point, but a simple question could pop up at the beginning of the game: "how many Pokémon games have you played before?" Boom, difficulty mode established. And while my Volcarona example may not be a good gym leader, it could fit on an elite 4 team. I like what Mulan said above- make gamers fight actual strategies, not just bs. The only time I had difficulty in the games was when my Pokémon were under leveled or matched up poorly, and I haven't had those problems in years. Pokémon is above everything else, supposed to be a strategy game. So where's the strategy?
The early-game gym leader having a Volcarona wouldn't actually be too OP if there were plenty of rock-type moves to use. Assuming no EVs for either pokemon and 31 IVs in all stats, a Roggenrola has a chance to OHKO with Smack Down, a Timburr deals 60-80% damage with Rock Throw, a Tepig's rollout 2HKO's, etc. If the Volcarona is trained to always lead with Quiver Dance, it would be stopped by a Roggenrola with Smack Down, who could hit as it Quiver Dances, survive an attack with Sturdy, and finish with another Smack Down.
Not to mention that a Volcarona would have a poor movepool at such a low level. Its level up moves would be all of Ember, Leech Life, String Shot, and Gust.
I think the following distinction needs to be established:
Pokemon games are RPGs. Pokemon metagames are turn-based strategy games. (In other words they are as different as Final Fantasy and Civilisation.) We should therefore neither expect nor wish for the former to emulate the latter.
This, incidentally, is why most RPGs don't have a competitive scene associated with them.
Just to comment on this whole difficulty level thing and how to implement it, one idea did come to mind, though it wouldn't give you the ability to select easy-medium-hard etc, it would be an interesting twist I think. So basically at the start of the game when you meet professor, get pokemon etc. You'll be talked to by either the professor or another NPC who will ask you if you wish to test your understanding of the pokemon world, you can say no to this, in which case the difficulty of the game will just be as it is now. If you say yes, you get asked quite a few different questions relating to things like type advantage, status moves, what move to use in X scenario etc. The idea being if you get all the questions right the game knows you clearly understand both the basic dynamics and also how to strategize, thus you're given a "hard" mode, if you get most wrong, you're a novice, so it would probably stay as is (since as we all know the games are easy), if you get a decent number right but not all, you're given a "medium" mode. This would impact the quantity and level of some NPC pokemon, load up a different AI, easy is like now, medium is better at ensuring it selects the right coverage move, hard has proper set-up, stall etc strategies on GYM leaders and such. I appreciate it would take some work, but in case people are unsure which mode to go with, this could help tailor the game to them in a better way. Maybe once per GYM badge you could go back to the man and try questions again if you wanted to change the mode. Suppose just offering modes is a lot easier, but it's a thought.
Joeyboy123 that's a great idea. In fact iirc most Call of Duty games have this precise system: they give you an obstacle course at the beginning of the game and determine your difficulty setting from your performance, which works well since it's at least plausible that the army itself works in a similar way. I only remember this because I remember being forced to do one again and again because I wasn't good enough even for beginner difficulty. I suck at any game requiring any sort of reflexes. (That's probably why I'm here!)
Mulan, I could walk into that Very Hard Ice gym with a Chandelure and it would own the gym leader with no difficulty.
What gym leaders need to do is structure their team so they can't be soloed, and this is easier if their mons are on par with the highest level mon of yours. This cuts down the need for grinding and promotes a full team too.
Wulfric almost had the right idea. Cryogonal+Avalugg is just too weak to mixed attackers or stuff like Mega Charizard Y.
Maybe some normal-type gym could use Chansey and Tauros as a reminder of old times lol.
You would not do too well, if the AI was smart. Regice uses Toxic, then protect-stalls, when Walrein is out, it uses surf and the Chadelure loses. The gym leader has 5 pokemon left.
252 SpA Flame Plate Chandelure Overheat vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Regice: 158-188 (84.4 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Chandelure Energy Ball vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Walrein: 94-112 (50.5 - 60.2%) -- 84.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Walrein Surf vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Chandelure: 84-102 (50.2 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Damage calculations assume level 50 for both, but they are accurate for both being the same level between 50
Regice toxics, then protects, then goes down. Chandelure has 3 turns left due to toxic damage. Walrein comes next. Chandelure deals 50-65% damage. Walrein surfs. Chandelure is KO'd. Your Chandelure solo only took out one pokemon.
You would not do too well, if the AI was smart. Regice uses Toxic, then protect-stalls, when Walrein is out, it uses surf and the Chadelure loses. The gym leader has 5 pokemon left.
252 SpA Flame Plate Chandelure Overheat vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Regice: 158-188 (84.4 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Chandelure Energy Ball vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Walrein: 94-112 (50.5 - 60.2%) -- 84.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Walrein Surf vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Chandelure: 84-102 (50.2 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Damage calculations assume level 50 for both, but they are accurate for both being the same level between 50
Regice toxics, then protects, then goes down. Chandelure has 3 turns left due to toxic damage. Walrein comes next. Chandelure deals 50-65% damage. Walrein surfs. Chandelure is KO'd. Your Chandelure solo only took out one pokemon.
The fact that you don't have to predict any switches makes Regice really easy to set up on. You could use a mon that learns Calm Mind or Double Team naturally, like Gardevoir, you could Taunt it, you could...so many things. If the AI knew how to switch it would actually be the least bit difficult.
When people are soloing Flannery with a horribly underleveled (lv. 22-24) Kirlia you know the game is really stupid when it comes to fighting boosters.
Heck, if you gave the Gym Leaders Roar that would help a ton.
Yeah, I suppose it wasn't the greatest team, but I was just putting it there as an example. Also, the AI could change up which pokemon it chooses to lead with, so you could come in expecting an easy set up on Regice with your Chandelure, only to find that it led with Mamoswine and it KO's your Chandelure as you were expecting a Regice lead and went with a Calm Mind without looking, or maybe it sends in Walrein to start and 2HKOs with Surf.
A better team probably should be used, too. I assembled that team in very little time. Someone who actually spent time planning a team for the ice-type gym leader could probably do better.
I have played red, ruby, platinum and black they have all been fun and i have liked them all
Red, you could say it was easy getting your starter to a high level and catching zapdos and a dugtrio then sweep the e4, but that isnt fun. Fun is how you make the game, if you go competitive and care about evs, then that isnt fun. If you soft reset or keep capturing pokemon for natures, that isnt fun. If you look up the new game mons, before you play, it isnt fun. Fun is how you make the game.
The only game i found a bit easy was black, the e4 wasnt challenging 4 pokes all at 48, a bit easy. Ghetsis's infamous hydreigon wasnt a problem as i had a samarott with megahorn and i was lucky to get a jolly scolipede, also with megahorn. That game, i didnt know about physical or special, and it was a bit hard. I didnt know what to do after, so i never bothered.
I have liked all the plots, red didnt include the legandaries, but that was arguably the best game, imo. I remember hearing the rumour about mew and then doing it and it was so cool. Also with the regi's, i randomly went to the cave, complete coincidence, and i had to try to find a way to crack the code. I eventually found out it was braile. That was very fun and one of my favourite parts.
I dont think there is a problem, im starting an y playthrough, and im loving the graphics.
