Hearthstone [IRC Channel #Skillstone]

While I think that Defias is a good card you have to have it be second otherwise it's just a 2/2 on turn 2 which is actually really horrible. Which makes it a very big risk in constructed. I would almost prefer any two drop I have to a Defias given that it's so conditional just to get the combo.
Backstab helps
 

supermarth64

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... What? The majority of 2 drops that are played are 2/2s or 3/2s. The only viable 3+ HP 2 drops are Ancient Watcher in a Druid deck, Flametongue Totem, Nat Pagle, and Sunfury Protector (in the aforementioned Ancient Watcher deck). Acidic Swamp Ooze, Argent Protector, Bloodmage Thalnos, Cruel Taskmaster, Defias, Faerie Dragon, Knife Juggler, and Loot Hoarder are much more popular in terms of popularity and sheer numbers of cards.
 

Matthew

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Knife Juggler is used in the Warlock Murlock deck and they sure as shit don't care about Backstab. Faerie Dragon cannot be targeted, no one is dropping Bloodmage Thalnos until they have a decent spell to use (which buy the way combined with Swipe handles the entirety of Defias). Cruel Taskmaster is used for a point of damage, an Acolyte draw, or to buff a creature; there's no use playing it by itself. Ooze is left suited to weapons of the ever popular (ranked 3) Warrior and (rank 2) Shaman. Flametongue is only going to be played turn two if your opponent had a one drop or coin to a Totem, and Loot Hoarder it doesn't matter because you're trading card for card and you're probably looking for the card draw anyway (seriously, Loot Hoarder?)

All the cards you mentioned, aside from Ancient Watcher, have uses that are way better suited than playing on turn two. On the other front the Watcher -> Sunfury combo is pretty shitty in a metagame focused on Druids and Shamans (whattup Hex). The fact is no one is going to play something on turn two that you would think is a "viable" Backstab target. If you're wasting one of the best removal spells in the game so you can play a card that cannot handle itself in the metagame (warrior burn and control, warlock murlock, shaman control, druid control) then you're probably SOL in the game anyway.

EDIT:

Forgot to mention Tinkmaster on the shitty Watcher -> Sunfury play.

supermarth64
 
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Mr.E

unban me from Discord
is a Two-Time Past SPL Champion
woo I did it I beat the game



Almost forgot to take the screenie because I clicked without thinking "oh it'll open my reward chest" but I got it still !!


For what it's worth, the contents of the prize pack are Argent Squire, Dire Wolf Alpha, Arathi Weaponsmith, Auchenai Soulpriest (Rare), Wild Pyromancer (Rare).


And Backstab is a pretty good card, uncooperative Matthew #6. :[ You don't want to kill a Knife Juggler for free? Those guys are assholes, then you get the bandits down to contest those Murlocs so Mr. Wurlock doesn't get the momentum to run you over.

Do you think most players just don't drop minions down Turns 1-2? (And you can always hit that T1 Leper Gnome too.) You can't just sit there twiddling your thumbs all day. Most of the time it is correct to get early bodies down whether or not you take full advantage of their secondary effects. You don't hold back Ooze on Turn 2 unless you have something better to play, that's giving up three damage per turn and wasting two mana you wouldn't otherwise use. Sunfury Protector will save you more health trading with that 3/2 now than holding it in the vain hope of Taunt-buffing something big later.

The primary use of cheap burn, whether it's Frostbolt or Arcane Shot or Wrath, is to trade with those early minions so yours can keep swinging in. And while you can't go to the face with Backstab to finish someone off, it makes it up by costing zero. It gives Rogue incredible earlygame tempo by allowing her to eliminate the opponent's first minion without trading her own, which means she starts hitting you in the face sooner and begins to dictate future trades in combat.

Typical matchup
T1: Player 1 (P1) drops a Leper Gnome.
T1: Player 2 (P2) drops a Leper Gnome.
Player 1 decides whether or not they trade next turn. He can ram the Gnomes into each other to protect a T2 Nat Pagle, for example, or go to the face and force P2 to trade because (going first) he has the advantage in a race.

Rogue matchup
T1: P1 drops a Leper Gnome.
T1: P2, a Rogue, Backstabs it and drops his own Leper Gnome.
P2 is now in control of combat, as P1 no longer has a creature on the board. If P1 drops a 3/2, the Rogue can trade her Leper Gnome up. If the Rogue goes first, she can eliminate the opponent's Gnome so it isn't there next turn to trade up with her two-drop. This gives her two bodies to start swinging in for damage as the opponent no longer has a would-be trade on the board to slow her down. This extends to most two-drops as well (stupid Faerie Dragon), it just shifts everything back a turn.

Basically, Backstab lets Rogue dictate tempo by spending zero to remove what the opponent spent 1-3 mana on. She can eliminate your first threat while still playing one of her own, giving her the momentum moving forward. Other classes have ways to do this as well but Rogue does it the most reliably, Backstab being a major contributor. (If nothing else, every class can try their luck with Mad Bomber RNG.) Backstab also plays very well with the Rogue's Combo mechanic, of course, since a card that costs zero mana doesn't at all inhibit your ability to cast other spells that turn.
 
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Had a Turn 4 win vs. a rush Hunter deck. Went second. Was probably the most hilarious game of my life (excluding OTK Warrior)

T1: Pass
T1: Play Mana Wyrm
T2: Hero Power
T2: Sorcerer's Apprentice + Coin + Frostbolt + Ice Lance
T3: Animal Companion (Huffer) HITS FACE <-- Cost him the entire game
T3: FireBall face
T4: Arcane Golem to take out wyrm, arcane shot for sorcerer's apprentice
T4: Leeroy face

I can't stand rush Hunter (even though I occasionally run one). It's so stupid but somehow it still works because of all the burn :(
 

Matthew

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Mr.E

Hey I called Backstab one of the best removal spells in the game. I just think wasting it on that chump trash just so you can combo out a Defias isn't a good call, I'd much rather play a creature than waste my Backstab so I can get a Defias.
 
just working my way though the annoying win with <class> quests, so hard to win when the matchups put you with more established players which are in the same tier, took ages to win with warrior, but had some fun when I got a combo where I smashed thier guy down from 30 to 11 in 1 turn, won that one.
then went priest.... omg this class is so easy, using the twilight drake card in priest deck, get it out nice and early when the hand is still loaded with cards - profit

although they really do need to tone down Hunters mark, far too OP when it costs 0 mana

do love the mana wyrm myself


early minions? yea, leper gnomes, stuff with taunt, murlocs, if i have one i'll play one, especially as you can get some early hero damage on the board.

gratz on those reward chests, only gold I have so far is the Ancient Brewmaster, another decent card especialyl in my preist deck, play him, remove a minion with hero damage, charge, or healing, and then replay again :D

oh and i just got the Angry Chicken card... 1/1 with enrage for +5 damage or something, just... wtf
 

Matthew

I love weather; Sun for days
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
oh and i just got the Angry Chicken card... 1/1 with enrage for +5 damage or something, just... wtf
Angry chicken has some gimmick combos with Blessing of Kings or any of the Druid buffs. It's effective if you can activate the Enrage but otherwise it's mostly a dead card. I'd say that Mark of Nature + Angry Chicken + Moonfire is your best bet if you somehow get it to stick on the board. But that's still three cards to simply get a 10/4 health creature. Or you could Shattersun / Defender of Argus + Whirlwind + Charge to do to get a 9/1 which could be used as a burn.
 
What's your out against Druid control decks? Or are you going full aggression with no board control?
My out vs Druid control? The "Concede" button. But yes to the second question. I try to play matches as quickly as possible. More games to play gives me more opportunities at winning. Also I don't have very many cards (only other Legendary is Prophet Velen) so I can't build an actual deck.
 
urgh 2 hours to win 2 games as warlock, whoever decides these stupid quests needs to be shot.
1. You can re-roll challenges once per day by clicking the red x on the top-right corner of the challenge.
2. You are given two options for classes to win as.
 

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