You're talking as if Gamefreak ever knew how to balance their own game.
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Pokémon Absol
- Thread starter Adamant Zoroark
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Yeah I agree. Especially since Knock Off is everywhere and Absol wouldn't mind taking one.
BTW while this may sound silly, but can Mega Absol run a mixed Set with Hone Claws/Sucker Punch/Blizzard/Thunder? It sounded tempting to me as he is one of the few with BoltBeam coverage all the while carrying Hone Claws and having acceptable mixed offensive stats.
He has some good special attack so it could work out but I dont know if he'll get the chance to boost his accuracy enough.
There really aren't a lot of things he can set up on, but Magic Bounce does help him a bit. He could possibly set up on a Mandibuzz or Sableye as a Foul Play won't hurt and Willo'Wisp, Whirlwind, Toxic and Taunt don't pass through...
Setting up on pokemon with foul play is never a good idea:
+2 4 Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Absol: 261-307 (96.3 - 113.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
That calc looks weird; the +2 is from Absol, not Mandibuzz/anything else.
A minor nitpick, Hone Claws is +1, but even then it is a 2HKO so NVM, I am dumb :P
Ah right. I was just assuming the typical SD set. But
+1 4 Atk Abomasnow Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Absol: 130-153 (47.9 - 56.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage
It won't always be a 2HKO, but yeah, it's not a very good chance.
I saw a guy run lead with;
Megastone
Justified
Protect
Pursuit
Sucker Punch
Fire Blast
i imagine it was naive and with an even EV spread for At, SpA, and Spe. i don't see why protect was used, but maybe it could be replaced with superpower. magic bounce gives absol the ability to serve as a hazard counter, and fire blast and superpower kind of deal with ferrothorn and t-tar. maybe an absol can't OHKO a t-tar with a superpower, so maybe that's what the protect was for if they were predicting T-Tar to stay in and just kill the Absol. Absol outspeeds many hazard setters before mega evolving anyways, so I think protect is kind of a weird choice. Sucker Punch is quite solid against some of the more common threats, and if those threats are scared out by sucker punch then a pursuit will really hurt them instead. it's a lot of hard reads and i'm not sure what to think about it, but it seems like M-Absol is better served as a nuisance than an SD sweeper. It's not like he's got a stab bullet punch.
Megastone
Justified
Protect
Pursuit
Sucker Punch
Fire Blast
i imagine it was naive and with an even EV spread for At, SpA, and Spe. i don't see why protect was used, but maybe it could be replaced with superpower. magic bounce gives absol the ability to serve as a hazard counter, and fire blast and superpower kind of deal with ferrothorn and t-tar. maybe an absol can't OHKO a t-tar with a superpower, so maybe that's what the protect was for if they were predicting T-Tar to stay in and just kill the Absol. Absol outspeeds many hazard setters before mega evolving anyways, so I think protect is kind of a weird choice. Sucker Punch is quite solid against some of the more common threats, and if those threats are scared out by sucker punch then a pursuit will really hurt them instead. it's a lot of hard reads and i'm not sure what to think about it, but it seems like M-Absol is better served as a nuisance than an SD sweeper. It's not like he's got a stab bullet punch.
This is something I've been thinking about for a while, but haven't gotten around to trying out yet. And I'd like your opinions on it.
Could Bisharp and Absol form a strong offensive core?
Absol has Play Rough to deal with pesky fighting types that wall Bisharp. And Bisharp has Iron Head to obliterate fairies that give Absol trouble. I'm thinking they could form a strong offensive core, wearing out one another's counters with Knock Off on predicted switches. In much the same way that Talonflame and Staraptor help support one another and form the BIRD core.
What do you guys think of this? (They would obviously need a third support to tank fighting attacks, possible Aegislash, though he is weak to Ground/Fire) - And that's where Suicune or Landorus-T comes in. I haven't tried it out yet, but would like your opinions.
Could Bisharp and Absol form a strong offensive core?
Absol has Play Rough to deal with pesky fighting types that wall Bisharp. And Bisharp has Iron Head to obliterate fairies that give Absol trouble. I'm thinking they could form a strong offensive core, wearing out one another's counters with Knock Off on predicted switches. In much the same way that Talonflame and Staraptor help support one another and form the BIRD core.
What do you guys think of this? (They would obviously need a third support to tank fighting attacks, possible Aegislash, though he is weak to Ground/Fire) - And that's where Suicune or Landorus-T comes in. I haven't tried it out yet, but would like your opinions.
It's a real shame that this guy can't get Play Rough and Knock Off together, because those moves are extremely dangerous. Knowing this, would a set of Sucker Punch / Knock Off / Superpower / Ice Beam be good, because on its own, the three attacks have really good coverage, only being resisted by Azumarill, who isn't an issue in UU, as well as providing two powerful STABs.
Absol could also work decently against opposing hazard HO. Because of Magic Bounce it's a full stop to any kind of hazard-stacking and unlike Espeon and Xatu, it can actually do something against Bisharp and Aegislash, and has faster priority than Talonflame, Pinsir and the like. It's paper-fragile, though, which makes it really hard to switch in, you'd need something like Volt-turn to not die on the switch-in.
I don't know if someone has mentioned this yet, but Absol gets Knock Off. I think it's quite good for the Protect+3 Attacks set, since you get great speed with it without much cost, and therefore, don't need Sucker Punch. Unfortunately, you do have to sacrifice Play Rough, which is petty bad. I've toyed around with Protect / Knock Off / Double-Edge / Swords Dance as well as Protect / Knock Off / Fire Blast / Superpower. They're both pretty good, one as a sweeper that can't be stopped by status or phazing (with the exception of the rarely seen Dragon Tail), the other a a hit-and-run Pokemon that likes switching on predicted entry hazards.
I think a set including Knock Off should be included in the OP, or at the very least, mentioned in the "Notable Moves" list.
I think a set including Knock Off should be included in the OP, or at the very least, mentioned in the "Notable Moves" list.
I honestly couldn't find any better coverage for him. Superpower leaves him walled by Fairy-types, Zen Headbutt by other Dark Types, and Fire Blast makes no sense on an SD set. I really wish Play Rough was compatible with Knock Off, but I have to settle for Double Edge, although Return would probably be better.
As of gen VI, Dark+Normal has suprisingly decent coverage, resisted only by Lucario, Bisharp, Mawile, Klefki, and Tyranitar in OU. That admittedly is a pretty big list of counters, but all of these can be dealt with by a strong Ground-Type, Fire-type, or Fighting-type (I personally use Talonflame, Conkeldurr, and Excadrill on the same team as Absol, so none of these pose a real threat to me). It's certainly better than being walled by an entire type.
I think you nailed it Celon. With Play Rough, Sucker Punch, and Knock Off. Absol will be a fearsome Swords Dance sweeper. I even think he'll stand a chance in OU for sweeping since Knock Off will KO a lot of pokemon that Sucker Punch misses out on the KO on. And it gives him great utility against common switch ins. Such as AV conkeldurr. Scarf Terakion, etc. They become much easier to handle without their items.
I agree for the most part here, if Absol gets access to both Knock Off and Play Rough on the same Moveset it'd be a nice boon to Absol's effectiveness, because as Knock Off has shown, nothing likes losing their Item and Mega Absol's Dark STAB and ridiculously high 150 Attack work very well with it, also Mega Luke and Gene getting the Banhammer helps as it's one less thing to exploit it's weakness'.
As for the Move Tutor concern, I'm gonna go on a limb and say that Knock Off will return as a Move Tutor in the eventual Z or whatever the next game will be called, Knock Off's been a Move Tutor move since Platinum, it'd be odd to get rid of it now.
I'll never understand why move tutors only ever show up in the second games. Gamefreak always insists on one step forward and two steps back with the first games in a new gen, and it's maddening. I guess we'll have to wait a little longer for Absol to be the OU threat it deserves to be. Knock-Off and Play Rough will be brutal.
I really hope Absol does become an OU threat, but fear that he might not be viable enough even with knock off. However, the item loss can be big. And his damage with knock off 2HKOs Suicune, Skarmory, and Ferrothorn at +2. Unfortunately, Absol can really only afford to take one hit from any of them.
Also, I completely understand why move tutors show up in the second game. It happens every gen, and the reason... wait for it.... money. Haha. I don't see any real reason why GF would hold it back otherwise.
personally, absol is very underrated in the OU meta right now even in UU I never see him where I use him on most of my mega based teams. Actually absol's anonymity works very well for it in some cases, because everyone forgets he gets magic bounce. Knock off is probably better than night slash unless you want the crit ratio, otherwise even under itemless circumstances, knock off hits for only 5 less base power the night slash. Play rough WOULD be nice for coverage, but I make do with stone edge over it for neutral coverage pairing with superpower and sucker punch.
I feel like Fire Blast is too hard to pass up, as it hits physically defensive pokemon weak to fire hard, like Ferrothorn and M-Aggron. Tbh I think the best set is what you said, but with Fire Blast instead of stone edge.
knock off not even mentioned in the OP? you should do it, it's really powerful and cripples many switch-ins. ice beam absol also lures in gliscor and lando-t, opening holes for sweepers like scizor, garchomp, terrakion, etc
My most successful all out attacking Absol was using Fire Blast, Ice Beam, Sucker Punch, and Knock Off. He breaks many common walls and functions as an excellent lure. However, I invested 96 EVs in Sp Atk, 160 in Atk, and the rest in speed. Simply because the 96 ensures a OHKO against Gliscor, Lando-T, and Garchomp. Knock Off and Sucker Punch still have tremendous strength at 376Atk, allowing him to revenge kill and break walls by ridding them of eviolite/leftovers.
People keep mentioning Superpower as a great move on Absol, but I really hate that attack drop. I'd like to know how others are using it effectively? (Since I sure have trouble using it.)
People keep mentioning Superpower as a great move on Absol, but I really hate that attack drop. I'd like to know how others are using it effectively? (Since I sure have trouble using it.)
Knock off has been discussed, but its illegal to have it without losing play rough.
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