Metagame NP: RU Stage -1: Message to Oglemi, Nails, and Honko (VENOMOTH STOLEN FROM US))

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EonX- said:
Golemman , while SD Gallade is good, I really don't like Shadow Sneak on it. MAYBE on the Fast SD set since it doesn't have much bulk to work with, but the Bulky SD set really likes having Knock Off to remove boosting items from opposing Pokemon trying to break through it.
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I don't really find a need for knock off in my battles with Gallade; priority is my priority (:P never mind). Carrying a pursuiter deals with bulky ghosts, and Tangrowth is going down to a Zen Headbutt. Also, about the bulky ghosts, if they try and switch in or have prior damage, their toast to psychic STAB anyway.
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 335-395 (89.5 - 105.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Gallade Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 208-246 (55.6 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Eviolite Dusclops: 283-335 (100 - 118.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Gallade Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Eviolite Dusclops: 175-207 (61.8 - 73.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Gallade Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 204-242 (50.4 - 59.9%) -- 83.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I'll give your knock off the solid OHKO on dusclops and the ability to cripple Gourgeist later on in the match, but when your fighting for moves slots knock off doesn't have a strong arguement over priority. I know it's weak, but Shadow Sneak (52 BP with LO) is actually useful in picking off weakened/Mismagius faster opponents.

I'll do some more battles and try and get a good replay to showcase Shadow Sneak

Hold it I completely ignored bulky psychics. Knock off is definitely superior to hitting stuff like Cresselia and reuniclus (until they're banned). So yeah
 
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Was bored (again) and played ~40 games with a silly 2 minutes sticky web team without Raikou and Tornadus checks (don't do this if you want to use web offense) and this guy was by far the MVP (fuck you Molk not removing this).

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emo puppet (Banette) (F) @ Banettite
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 252 Atk / 84 Spd / 172 HP
Adamant Nature
- Destiny Bond
- Knock Off
- Shadow Claw
- Sucker Punch / Taunt
  • one of the 2 ru megas must be good (it is)
  • prankster dbond is pro as fuck and pretty much guarentees a kill, gets two or more quite a bit. If you are using Banette without destiny bond please stop using Banette.
  • Aboma doesn't fit on the teams you would use Banette, meaning it has literally 0 competition for the mega slot.
  • evs allow Banette to outspeed min speed gallade and the faget known as cresselia post-mega. Rest in bulk because this nigga is actually decently bulky after it mega evolves.
  • Insomnia is the best ability pre-mega and the only one that should be used (this one should be obvious, but I swear I see more frisk on the ladder)
  • Sucker punch is a cool option for revenge killing if you can save Destiny Bond for a bigger threat later in the game.
  • Taunt can be used instead of Sucker Punch to guarantee a dead cress/ keep Hazards and Web up/using bond to get a kill.
  • Sneak sucks because it hits like atomicllamas and is weaker vs anything not named Gallade or Medicham.
  • knock off because knock off is pro and should be used by anything that has a decent attack stat(80+) or dark STAB.
  • shadow claw for STAB and because being able to beat Virizion, Cobalion (it 3hkoes before the goat can 2hko if you hit in the switch), Croak, and Cress without losing Banette is totally worth it.
  • Will-o-wisp is not exactly bad on Banette, but it isn't needed when Banette is used on more offensive teams.
  • why is this thing not dark
 
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Quick question: How do most of you guys deal with Exploud? I've been leaning toward using Bronzong, but zong doesn't exactly have the offensive capabilities to deal with it. AV Escavalier is nice, but it doesn't exactly want to switch into a Flamethrower/Fire Blast if my opponent predicts it. Another thing I was considering was Soundproof Bouffalant, but that's only hoping the opposing Exploud isn't carrying Focus Blast.
 
I've been using some really hyper offense, so I've just been using offensive pressure to keep it off the field. It can't bulk that many hits and is pretty easily outsped by most of the tier. Scarf Cobalion has been what I tend to switch in if I need something to take a hit, because it takes boomburst reasonably well.

If you want something that can actually take one of its hits then I guess you have... AV Registeel? (don't use that) Mostly you have to just predict it well. AV Escav is basically the best option, although fire blast will still decimate you.
 
Tribute said:
I assume this is after sticky web?
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The speed is for Cresselia. Added Gallade because that is decently common on ladder and everyone there has a boner for av for some reason that and there are times web won't be up.
 
codeanime2 said:
Quick question: How do most of you guys deal with Exploud? I've been leaning toward using Bronzong, but zong doesn't exactly have the offensive capabilities to deal with it. AV Escavalier is nice, but it doesn't exactly want to switch into a Flamethrower/Fire Blast if my opponent predicts it. Another thing I was considering was Soundproof Bouffalant, but that's only hoping the opposing Exploud isn't carrying Focus Blast.
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Well, Exploud isn't an easy threat to deal with, but there are ways to go about it. Specs is most common, so generally keeping up offensive pressure with the core you have for offense will generally suffice as it isn't very fast. As for stall teams, Specs Exploud is definitely one of the hardest Pokemon to straight-up counter due to the movepool it has. Registeel is probably the best, but it lacks reliable recovery outside of Rest. Otherwise, getting down Toxic Spikes with Roselia or Drapion can greatly lower Exploud's lifespan to minimize the damage it can do to your stall team.

Scarf Exploud isn't as good, but is just as tricky for offensive teams to handle. STAB Boomburst still hurts, but most Scarf Pokemon can take it out. (think Hitmonlee, Medicham, Rotom-C, and Emboar) while offensive Pokemon with solid Special Defense can tank out a neutral attack and do serious, if not lethal, damage back. (think Virizion, Milotic, and AV mons like Meloetta, Druddigon, and Escavalier) Stall teams obviously handle Scarf Exploud much better as it will lack the power to get through tough walls like Registeel, Cresselia, and Uxie.

TROP , cool use of Mega-Bannette. Would there maybe be a use for Substitute on such a set, or is it one of those "neat idea, but not enough room" ideas?
 
codeanime2 said:
Quick question: How do most of you guys deal with Exploud? I've been leaning toward using Bronzong, but zong doesn't exactly have the offensive capabilities to deal with it. AV Escavalier is nice, but it doesn't exactly want to switch into a Flamethrower/Fire Blast if my opponent predicts it. Another thing I was considering was Soundproof Bouffalant, but that's only hoping the opposing Exploud isn't carrying Focus Blast.
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I run Cresselia EV'ed for special bulk and specs Boomburst usually does like 40-45%, so lefties makes me safe barring crits. I can use Moonlight a few times until I have enough HP to get in a CM, if the opponent doesn't switch before then. A lot of Explouds hold Choice items, and if they lock into Boomburst, I can also bring in Assault Vest Escavalier. Any non-Boomburst move does like 20% or less to Cress. Having multiple Pokemon that could possibly switch into Exploud makes it much less likely that they will choose Fire Blast over Boomburst, at least the first time out. You can always just let something almost faint from Boomburst, hit it back, faint, then bring in a fast revenge killer to scare it away.
 
TROP There are many ways to play Mega Banette that I've seen. Some Mega Banettes even try to stick around with Pain Split for maximum disruption, putting foes in a "damned if you do and don't" position in conjuction with Destiny Bond. I go for good old Will-O-Wisp on my Mega Banette, since Pursuitters are pretty annoying as fuck, and I want to save that Destiny Bond for when it actually matters, plus priority burn is always pretty swell. I swear this thing is tricky to play around as fuck, which is kind of the whole premise of Mega Banette anyway, but still. It has that predictable Prankster Destiny Bond which still cannot be gotten around very easily (faster priority can circumvent this, but Quick Attack, Mach Punch, and Sucker Punch don't work, and the Mega Banette may predict you and screw you over with Wisp), that predictable but strong as hell Shadow Claw, and those 2 other moves which only serve to amp up Mega Banette's unpredictability factor. This thing is definitely a threat since competition for Megas is basically zilch.

EonX- Exploud is the biggest reason I am even considering Mr. Mime on offensive teams, since most offensive teams basically has to sac something against it if they cannot OHKO (Exploud's high HP and lone weakness makes this easier said than done, since the likes of Tornadus's LO Hurricane does not OHKO), especially if Exploud is paired with Trick Room or Sticky Web, so this may happen more than once. People may start running Shadow Ball Explouds if Mr. Mime becomes noticeable, so my best bet against that is to switch to Soundproof Bouffalant to throw them off their feet. Seriously though, damn that Exploud.
 
Here's some things that I can see as being potentially broken because there are quite a few things in the tier that are potentially broken:
  • Venomoth is insane, it can either use BP to completely screw over offensive teams or Tinted Lens + LO + Roost to poop on stall. Sleep Powder has kinda bad accuracy, but that doesn't stop Venomoth from wrecking shit hard. Give it a free switchin and there is a high chance that your opponent will cripple something and kill something else at the very least.
  • CM Reuniclus is, much like Venomoth, nearly unbeatable vs stall. Its high bulk also means that it can sweep lategame vs more offensive teams. Meanwhile, while I haven't seen one around yet, OTR also sounds very, very dangerous to offense. I don't like this shit in RU get it outta here.
  • Tornadus is surprisingly uncommon, but also insane because of what it can run. LO + Knock Off/Hurricane/Grass Knot/Heat Wave is cookie cutter and very dangerous an sich, but when you take into account what else it can do (SubBU + Salac, physical set w/ Defiant, Prankster shit) it's just too much to handle imo. nothing's really switching into it, anything that resists Hurricane and can tank GK + HW still has to worry about losing its item to Knock Off (AV Raikou, for example), so yeah, borked.
  • SmashPass because it's just gay as fuck =/
Cresselia might be broken, but I haven't really had trouble with it thus far so I'm not so sure about that one yet. Every now and then I see people claiming that Shaymin and Raikou are broken, but both of them suffer from Keldeo syndrome (have to choose between Hidden Power of choice and therefor what walls them and what doesn't) so atm they are very managable. Some people claim Escavalier to be broken but idk what has even gotten into these people lol, if anything Escavalier keeps the meta healthy by checking a good amount of mons that would otherwise be even harder to deal with than they are now (looking at you, Venomoth, Reuniclus and Cress =/)
 
AV everything on this thread ~_~

Im gonna post a c00l set that I did that works well in the RU metagame and I wanna show to the rest of people to try.

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CHESS REALM (Cobalion) @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Iron Head
- Magnet Rise

Magnet Rise Cobalion allows to beat common checks that otherwise should beat you, Magnet Rise allows to beat that stuff which uses ground moves to kill Cobalion and with Magnet Rise they cant touch you or you takes considerably less dmg from other moves.

- Bronzong, you setupp on Bronzong now.
- Shaymin, no EP this time.
- Gligar, same as Bronzong.
- Rhyperior, needs Fire Punch, takes less damage and Magnet Rise is almost a free turn because no one run this so just spam EQ.
- Dugtrio, loses to Magnet Rise unless Sash + Reversal which needs preserve.
- Druddigon, same as Rhyperior needs Flame + Sheer Force or at very least Fire Punch.
- Steelix.
- Claydol.
- Escavalier, free atk boost and cant touch Cobalion w/ Drill Run :]
- Registeel, Thunder Wave + Seismic at best to beat Cobalion.
- Gastrodon, better chances to beat him w/ EP or EQ off.
 
Hot N Cold said:
AV everything on this thread ~_~

Im gonna post a c00l set that I did that works well in the RU metagame and I wanna show to the rest of people to try.

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CHESS REALM (Cobalion) @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Iron Head
- Magnet Rise

Magnet Rise Cobalion allows to beat common checks that otherwise should beat you, Magnet Rise allows to beat that stuff which uses ground moves to kill Cobalion and with Magnet Rise they cant touch you or you takes considerably less dmg from other moves.

- Bronzong, you setupp on Bronzong now.
- Shaymin, no EP this time.
- Gligar, same as Bronzong.
- Rhyperior, needs Fire Punch, takes less damage and Magnet Rise is almost a free turn because no one run this so just spam EQ.
- Dugtrio, loses to Magnet Rise unless Sash + Reversal which needs preserve.
- Druddigon, same as Rhyperior needs Flame + Sheer Force or at very least Fire Punch.
- Steelix.
- Claydol.
- Escavalier, free atk boost and cant touch Cobalion w/ Drill Run :]
- Registeel, Thunder Wave + Seismic at best to beat Cobalion.
- Gastrodon, better chances to beat him w/ EP or EQ off.
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Seeing as you are using Magnet Rise, you might as well just run Air Balloon and replace Magnet Rise with Zen Headbutt or something. This means that you get a free switch on Ground-type moves, set up while they break your balloon/switch and KO from there as you should be switching SD Cobalion in mid-late game.

Also the name is illegal as it is more than 10 characters (11 in the name) and pre-generation 6 nickname limits are set to 10 characters (inc. spaces). Doesn't matter, but I am a little OCD like that :toast:

A good teammate for that set would be Ninjask to BP speed boosts.
 
gamer boy said:
Seeing as you are using Magnet Rise, you might as well just run Air Balloon and replace Magnet Rise with Zen Headbutt or something. This means that you get a free switch on Ground-type moves, set up while they break your balloon/switch and KO from there as you should be switching SD Cobalion in mid-late game.

Also the name is illegal as it is more than 10 characters (11 in the name) and pre-generation 6 nickname limits are set to 10 characters (inc. spaces). Doesn't matter, but I am a little OCD like that :toast:

A good teammate for that set would be Ninjask to BP speed boosts.
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air balloon is way less reliable though, if you switch in on something which is not a ground move the whole set is pointless and tbh cobalion doesn't really need much more coverage than what it's STAB's give it
 
Air Ballon Cobalion is horrible.

Only good thing about Air Ballon Cobalion is being inmunity to Spikes, also against Dugtrio in doubles switch in a scenario 1vs1.

Air Ballon is easy to explode also is not gonna lure nothing, for example Magnet Rise Cobalion atract stuff like Gligar or Bronzong and able to beat them because you're supposed to use Magnet Rise on the turn that they uses Earthquake while with Air Ballon they already know that Gligar/Bronzong/etc cant touch Cobalion (well not really, only needs 1 turn to break Air Ballon).

Last but not least, leftovers are kinda important.

Zen Headbutt is nice to Qwilfish and hit harder Weezing and Toxicroack, no slot to fit on this set.
 
Also Cobalion is one of thw fastest pokemon in the metagame and faster stuff can't do shit to it (Cinccino, Sneasel and Ambishit come to mind)
 
Anyways, I just want to test Slowking around:

slowking.gif


Slowking @ Assault Vest/Leftovers/Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator/Regenerator/Regenerator
Nature: Modest/Impish/Calm
EVs: 248 HP, 196 SpA, 64 SpD/252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SpA/252 HP, 200 Def, 56 SpD
- Psyshock/Psyshock/Psyshock
- Scald/Scald/Scald
- Ice Beam/Calm Mind/Thunder Wave/Dragon Tail
- Fire Blast/Slack Off/Slack Off

So this is a really hard thing to read, but as long as you understand that the colored things correspond with the other same colored things, it shouldn't be too hard. Anyways, so numero uno - the Assault Vest. Well, you got good special defense, and good HP, good special attack, so let's make that happen! This thing tanks special hits really well, like really well. Psyshock + Scald + Ice Beam + Fire Blast is really nice coverage. If I'm correct, you hit all pokemon neutrally with the exception of Slowbro/Slowking/Starmie/Gyarados/Sharpedo/Crawdaunt and Greninja. With a high special attack stat, it works really well with tank-like abilities. So next, the infamous classic Slowbro Stall set. I don't know if this needs much explanation, but basically the way this set works is you set up Calm Minds and then use Psyshock and Scald for nice coverage. Slack Off, of course, is reliable recovery. The last set is a defensive set as well, but Scald and Psyshock won't hit as hard, and the defensive EVs are spread out a little. Pretty much everything else is the same, except for Thunder Wave and Dragon Tail. Thunder Wave slows opponents down, and Dragon Tail phazes opponents from setting up on Slowking. Pick your poison.

I plan to use this set on my RU team.
 
Robert Alfons said:
Here's some things that I can see as being potentially broken because there are quite a few things in the tier that are potentially broken:
  • Venomoth is insane, it can either use BP to completely screw over offensive teams or Tinted Lens + LO + Roost to poop on stall. Sleep Powder has kinda bad accuracy, but that doesn't stop Venomoth from wrecking shit hard. Give it a free switchin and there is a high chance that your opponent will cripple something and kill something else at the very least.
  • CM Reuniclus is, much like Venomoth, nearly unbeatable vs stall. Its high bulk also means that it can sweep lategame vs more offensive teams. Meanwhile, while I haven't seen one around yet, OTR also sounds very, very dangerous to offense. I don't like this shit in RU get it outta here.
  • Tornadus is surprisingly uncommon, but also insane because of what it can run. LO + Knock Off/Hurricane/Grass Knot/Heat Wave is cookie cutter and very dangerous an sich, but when you take into account what else it can do (SubBU + Salac, physical set w/ Defiant, Prankster shit) it's just too much to handle imo. nothing's really switching into it, anything that resists Hurricane and can tank GK + HW still has to worry about losing its item to Knock Off (AV Raikou, for example), so yeah, borked.
  • SmashPass because it's just gay as fuck =/
Cresselia might be broken, but I haven't really had trouble with it thus far so I'm not so sure about that one yet. Every now and then I see people claiming that Shaymin and Raikou are broken, but both of them suffer from Keldeo syndrome (have to choose between Hidden Power of choice and therefor what walls them and what doesn't) so atm they are very managable. Some people claim Escavalier to be broken but idk what has even gotten into these people lol, if anything Escavalier keeps the meta healthy by checking a good amount of mons that would otherwise be even harder to deal with than they are now (looking at you, Venomoth, Reuniclus and Cress =/)
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Going to add on to a couple of these points:

Tornadus can also U-turn out of many of its checks/counters and trap them with Dugtrio. Super easy to do since Torn will likely force a Raikou switch-in just due to sheer offensive pressure. This is perhaps the only reason AV Eelektross should even be considered as it's about the only Torn check that isn't just shit on by Dugtrio.

SmashPass is just stupid good. Dual Screens Mewostic is guaranteed Screens thanks to Prankster and good enough bulk behind them. Meow can just set the necessary Screen to take the hit from the Pokemon it faces and then use the other Screen before going down. Fuck, even AV Escavalier can't OHKO Meowstic with Megahorn through Reflect. Yeah, crazy shit. All a SmashPass team really wants is Screens for 6-8 turns to wreck face. It also helps that shit like Delphox, Raikou, and Virizion are not only great SmashPass recipients, but can also setup on their own, so it's very hard to completely end a team using SmashPass just by taking out Gorebyss / Huntail / Smeargle.
 
hmmm any defoggers in the tier that are good for a defensive team? I've been using pelipper which also counters escalavier and spdef rhyperior but still it is a pelipper...
 
-Tsunami- said:
Gligar is by far the best defensive Defogger; it can set up SR too.
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Gligar is a really good defog mon, but it does really struggle to fit both Defog and Stealth Rock onto the same set. The way I see it Defog and roost are the required moves for Gligar (otherwise there is really no purpose), then you have two moveslots to choose from Earthquake, Toxic, U-turn and Stealth Rock depending on the rest of your team. I actually find Stealth Rock to be the hardest to fit onto Gligar of any of those moves, but fortunately, Gligar has pretty good synergy with Steel type rock setters like Cobalion / Bronzong / Registeel, so it isn't too hard to find room for defog Gligar and rocks on the same team.

hilarious said:
hmmm any defoggers in the tier that are good for a defensive team? I've been using pelipper which also counters escalavier and spdef rhyperior but still it is a pelipper...
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Aside from Pelipper and Gligar, Togetic and Golbat are also good defensive users of Defog (funny how three are Eviolite users Oo). Togetic is actually really underrated right now, in spite of its pretty ridiculous bulk (after eviolite), and pro typing. Braviary could probably pull of a defensive defog set, but I have found an offensive defog set to be much better so I'm not sure if it is worth it, and it probably doesn't have the movepool to pull it off unlike the other Pokemon mentioned. (Togetic can provide Heal Bell support alongside defog, and Golbat can use Haze / Whirlwind / Taunt to decent effect).
 
hilarious said:
hmmm any defoggers in the tier that are good for a defensive team? I've been using pelipper which also counters escalavier and spdef rhyperior but still it is a pelipper...
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Imo, the best defensive Defog users are Gligar and Togetic. This is generally due to the fact that they have good synergy with the bulky Rocks users in RU (think Bronzong, Registeel, and Cobalion) and have reliable reocvery. Golbat isn't a bad option either since it has a decently fast Taunt, Roost, and it can use Super Fang to stallbreak. It's also got Infiltrator in its hip pocket (wing?) to fuck over Sub users and hit through with Toxic, but it has a hard time fitting all of Taunt, Roost, Defog, Toxic, Brave Bird, U-turn, and Super Fang into a single set. Aside from these 3, most half decent Defog users are offensive in nature, and are thus, not good for defensive teams for obvious reasons. Hth!
 
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