Resource XY NU Viability Ranking

[Aerow]

Gorebyss is already A- Rank, and I doubt anyone think it deserves to be any higher than that. So I don't understand why I should argument to move Gorebyss up. The reason Regirock works well with SmashPass (I guess Combusken pass works too), is that it have brilliant coverage, recovery in Drain Punch and is also very bulky, especially with Assault Vest. I doubt Bibarel, Basculin and Butterfree can sweep as well as Regirock tbh.

Also, I have never talked about defensive Regirock. Only thing I have said is that Regirock have a amazing bulk (especially with Assault Vest, as mentioned above), so it can easily survive a super effective attack against it, making it easier to Baton Pass to.

 

[Durant]

Gorebyss is already A- Rank, and I doubt anyone think it deserves to be any higher than that. So I don't understand why I should argument to move Gorebyss up. The reason Regirock works well with SmashPass (I guess Combusken pass works too), is that it have brilliant coverage, recovery in Drain Punch and is also very bulky, especially with Assault Vest. I doubt Bibarel, Basculin and Butterfree can sweep as well as Regirock tbh.

Also, I have never talked about defensive Regirock. Only thing I have said is that Regirock have a amazing bulk (especially with Assault Vest, as mentioned above), so it can easily survive a super effective attack against it, making it easier to Baton Pass to.

I didn't mean to say Gorebyss should move up but I just meant that Gorebyss is the one who gives the boosts letting it be able to sweep. Also guess who else has good bulk, great coverage and similar stats + typing?

Rhydon also has multiple advantages over Regirock. First is that it has even better coverage than Regirock:
Regirock his coverage of note: Drain Punch, Earthquake, Ice Punch, Fire Punch, Thunder Punch, Stone Edge.
Rhydon his coverage of note: Earthquake, Stone Edge, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Thunder Punch, Megahorn, Superpower, Aqua Tail, Crunch.
Not all of these are as useful as another but these are all the notable coverage options. In addition to a slightly bigger movepool Rhydon also has a way better attack stat and additional STAB Earthquake. This makes Rhydon stronger while being bulkier with Eviolite at the cost of being slightly slower and not having as good special defense as Regirock. Ow yeah and Assault Vest is a pretty poor item for Regirock. Assault Vest is mainly a good item for bulky attackers and while Regirock is bulky he just doesn't have a good enough attack stat. Add to this that he only has 1 STAB move ( Albeit a good one ) and that most of his coverage bar Earthquake lacks in power and he just doesn't hit hard enough. Also while Rhydon doesn't have Drain Punch recovery Regirock doesn't benefit from Drain Punch much either. Since Drain Punch is a non STAB base 75 power move coming off an slightly above average attack stat and then you will see how weak it is. Seriously Drain Punch doesn't give much health back if any lol. Regirock has to rely on Gorebyss her smash pass to really sweep because it won't do much by itself. Than compared to Rhydon who while not as specially bulky isn't limited to using only attacking moves. Unlike Assault Vest Regirock Rhydon can actually use moves like Roar and Stealth Rock increasing it's utility on a team.

Assault Vest most overrated item ever.

 

[Aerow]

Rhydon certainly looks interesting, and I will definitely try it. But the problem with Rhydon in my opinion is 4x weakness to Water and Grass, lacking Special Defense, and no recovery move like Regirock have in Drain Punch. Regirock also ignore Sticky Web and Intimidate because of Clear Body, both of which can stop Rhydons sweep. And yes, Drain Punch hits hard after a SmashPass Boost. Try it yourself.

Here I have compared Rhydon and Regirocks stats after Eviolite and Assault Vest boost. Both have max Attack and Speed EVs. Jolly Nature on Rhydon, Adamant on Regirock.

Hide

Rhydon --- Regirock

352 HP --- 302 HP
359 Attack --- 328 Attack
414 Defense --- 436 Defense
189 Special Defense --- 354 Special Defense
196 Speed --- 199 Speed

Rhydon have better physical bulk because of much more HP, and also have a slightly higher attack stat. But again, bad Special Defense, 4x weakness to Water and Grass and weakness to Knock Off, is Rhydons problem.

 

[k.r.o.b.]

Masquerain for B-\C+,it's a good web setter,with access to quiver pass\defog\water coverage.works really well as a sash lead
Magneton for B+,good scarfer\steel trapper,but has a plenty of hard counters
Fletchinder for C+,it lacks power with itemless acrobatics,but can act as a good revenge killer with a chance to sweep with swords dance.Has also good support options in wow and tailwind
Malamar for B-\B.with durant gone,it has one of his hard counters removed.With 252+ speed and 252 attack\substitute,superpower,night slash,rock slide,malamar can easily start a sweep not so easy to counter and almost impossible to revenge kill with priority and not bug-type physical attacks.

 

[Durant]

Rhydon certainly looks interesting, and I will definitely try it. But the problem with Rhydon in my opinion is 4x weakness to Water and Grass, lacking Special Defense, and no recovery move like Regirock have in Drain Punch. And yes, Drain Punch hits hard after a SmashPass Boost. Try it yourself.

Here I have compared Rhydon and Regirocks stats after Eviolite and Assault Vest boost. Both have max Attack and Speed EVs. Jolly Nature on Rhydon, Adamant on Regirock.

Hide

Rhydon --- Regirock

352 HP --- 302 HP
359 Attack --- 328 Attack
414 Defense --- 436 Defense
189 Special Defense --- 354 Special Defense
196 Speed --- 199 Speed

Rhydon have better physical bulk because of much more HP, and also have a slightly higher attack stat. But again, bad Special Defense, 4x weakness to Water and Grass and weakness to Knock Off, is Rhydons problem.

Hence why I mentioned a few comments ago that Regirock his biggest niche over Rhydon is taking on Grass and Water types better. Also helps taking on Pokemon with Hidden Power Water or Grass as coverage. Also while Drain Punch does do pretty good damage after Shell Smash boost it isn't overwhelmingly powerful without Shell Smash pass.

Also seconding Scyther for B as somebody mentioned as it's pretty darn good. In short it has enough sets to make it versatile with Choice Scarf, Choice Band, Swords Dance and Baton Pass and it has good stats + ability and movepool. It does have a big Stealth Rock weakness and may be walled by some Steel Pokemon like Steelix but it's still really good despite these flaws, just needs a little bit more team support.

 

[Expulso]

Spiritomb: A ---> A+
With an excellent typing and great stats, Spiritomb is a major threat in the current meta. It can run a large variety of sets, ranging from CB to (RestTalk) Defensive to the infamous CroTomb. It is one of the best checks to Fighting-types in the tier, due to its Fighting-type immunity and neutrality to Knock Off and other Dark-type attacks. Furthermore, it is also one of the best spinblockers in the tier, due to the aforementioned traits in addition to easily beating Cryogonal, the best spinner in the tier, with Pursuit. Speaking of Pursuit, it lets it serve another role; that of a check / revenger of Sigilyph, the best Pokemon in the tier. It also beats other Psychic and Ghost types, such as Mismagius and Rotom-N, with Shadow Sneak, Sucker Punch or Pursuit, while being able to switch in fairly well due to a Ghost neutrality. In conclusion, Spiritomb is a truly excellent Pokemon in this meta, and deserves A+ Rank for sure.

 

[dingbat]

(Gourgeist Small) C- --> B

This 'mon is really underrated, seriously. Being able to scout opponents hard and spread burns at the same time with its trollish base 99 speed is something huge that Gourgeist can boast over other ghosts like Mismagius and Gourgeist-Large. Its defensive typing may not be that great, but nevertheless it is one of those 'mons that can truly pull its weight most of the time unlike C rank 'mons and annoy opponents if they are not ready for it.

This is the set I'm basing the rank shift on if anyone wants to know:

Gourgeist Small (FUCK SIGILYPH) @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 HP, 224 Spe, 32 Def
-Seed Bomb
-Substitute
-Will-o-Wisp
-Leech Seed

 

[Eashy]

I'm loving the list so far.

I'm going to nominate:

A- Rank -> A Rank

Zangoose is very underrated at the moment, it has an awesome ability in the form of Toxic Boost, and a sky high attack stat, as well as a decent speed stat. It can OHKO many Pokemon at the moment, including offensive Sigiliyph with Facade, can use Knock Off for utility, and has Close Combat for good coverage. It has Quick Attack as priority, and gets rid of most of the threats it faces. It OHKOs many A and A+ Pokemon, it can OHKO Feraligatr with Facade, OHKO offensive Sigilyph if it runs a neutral Speed nature, and OHKOs Shiftry with CC. It doesn't give a shit about Spiritomb since it will be poisoned most of the time, and then 2HKOs with Knock Off. It only faces trouble from Rhydon, who OHKOs with EQ. Otherwise, Zangoose is a good Pokemon that is a threat on most teams, and basically threatens other A and A+ Pokemon, as well as Sigilyph.

I disagree with this simply because half of your calcs don't make any sense. Sigi outspeeds with Timid (which is what it should run because it has such a fantastic speed tier) and and has a high chance to OHKO with Life Orb Psychic after rocks, Shiftry also has a high chance to OHKO with a Life Orb Sucker Punch after rocks, and Spiritomb easily 2HKOs with Sucker Punch. Zangoose is extremely frail and dies to most neutral hits. Its speed is also just a tad to slow which allows it to be outsped by a lot of offensive mons in the tier. I think Zangoose is fine where it is now. It's still a fantastic wallbreaker with great coverage. Zangoose actually lost some viability now that the best web setter is gone but I still believe its a solid A- mon.

Edit: Can someone explain to me why Samurott is A-? The SD set is a bit outclassed by gatr and I haven't really seen the special/mixed set this gen.

 

[Jonater]

Seems like a accurate list so far. I have one nomination.

Nominating Shiftry for A+ Rank -> S rank.

Shiftry boasts the strongest Knock Off and Sucker Punch in NU, which is quite powerful. Its arguably the best offensive defogger in the Tier, being able to use its offensive presence to automatically force switches. Its Swords Dance set is very powerful and in testing, guaranteed atleast half the opposing team went down trying to deal with it. At +2 very few pokemon can stop it. It OHKOs the majority of the tier with its powerful STAB attacks and can even 2HKO some of the most physically defensive of walls with its Knock Off. It is also one of the few pokemon that can run a mixed set with Leaf Storm to hit physical walls and can even run a Nasty Plot set to destroy its usual checks. Those that cannot be OHKOed or 2HKOed with Knock Off will usually fold to a Leaf Storm. Here is some calcs on some of the notable physical walls in the game.

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Granbull: 220-261 (57.2 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Granbull: 296-348 (77 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Life Orb Shiftry Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Granbull: 251-296 (65.3 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Shiftry Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Granbull: 324-382 (84.3 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 165-195 (49.4 - 58.3%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 239-282 (71.5 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 117-138 (29.6 - 35%) -- 13.7% chance to 3HKO
0 SpA Life Orb Shiftry Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Avalugg: 308-363 (78.1 - 92.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Shiftry Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Avalugg: 398-468 (101 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO



Of course, Shiftry is quite frail, and this fraility makes it difficult to set up or defog; however, as stated before, this is immediately negated by its offensive presence which forces switches. But what about Shiftry's poor speed tier? Shiftry's access to Sucker Punch usually OHKO's many of the pokemon that outspeed it. To conclude, Shiftry is a powerful pokemon that I feel deserves S Rank. Feel free to object me or support me in my argument.

 

[jake]

Please keep in mind, again, that this is a preliminary rank. I also deleted one-liner posts and those that used reasoning like "With Eviolite, it has good defenses and it's pretty fast, so it should be A".

response to every post

Unfixable (Archeops from A to A+)

Archeops' strength is its versatility and power, but Defeatist is such an enormous handicap that it really neuters the threat of Archeops. SR + any priority attack will knock it into Defeatist, and it also cannot run every coverage move at once especially when you're running non-attacking moves like Substitute and Roost. It's a good Pokemon especially if you play it well against teams that have no reasonable answer to it, but I don't believe that it's currently as close to S-Rank as Feraligatr and Shiftry, who always put pressure on the opponent just by switching in. If you are intending to continue to press the nomination, I'd like to see further evidence/arguments beyond listing its possible moveset and stats. tennis's post (here) is another good argument.
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Shuckleking87 (NFEs) ✓

I'm fine with these.
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The Shellder Smuggler (Zangoose from A- to A)

Comparing Zangoose to Pokemon in A / S ranks is a little silly, because it's very different to the majority of them. Zangoose is a glass cannon on a timer, and having used it extensively personally, I don't think that the fact it is impressively powerful is enough to offset its faults and vault it up a rank. It's significantly slower than "optimal", forcing it to use Quick Attack against a ton of offensive threats that it cannot OHKO on its own, such as Sigilyph (offensive sets should not ever be running neutral natures), Sceptile, Pyroar, etc. Additionally, with super bulky defensive Pokemon like Rhydon and fast Ghosts that are immune to 3/4 of its attacks like Rotom and Mismagius, Zangoose just has a lot of trouble getting something going. A- is already a testament to its strength, but it struggles with too much to rise any further.
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tennisace (Seismitoad from A to A+)

I'd be fine with this, especially if Sigilyph gets the boot.
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Can-Eh-Dian (Barbaracle from B+ to A- or A)

The only relevant information in your post is that it is fast for a Shell Smasher, which is a solid point. However, Barbaracle has a pretty tough time getting good opportunities to set up thanks to its poor typing, and if running White Herb to mitigate the effectiveness of priority, it struggles to net any solid OHKOes - even on neutral targets.

+2 252 Atk Barbaracle Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 225-265 (63.5 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery (LO Jolly cannot OHKO, even)
+2 252 Atk Barbaracle Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 280-331 (74.8 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (LO does OHKO this guy tho)
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Barbaracle Razor Shell vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Uxie: 225-265 (63.5 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

It's a good cleaner-esque Pokemon especially if you can give it support by weakening bulky pivots, cutting out as much priority as you can, and creating set-up opportunities for it, which is why it merits B+ rank.
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Alphose_Elric (Mismagius from B+ to A-) ✓

I'd be ok with this, mostly because Mismagius's versatility and potential hasn't really been explored thoroughly yet and it has the ability to mitigate its own weaknesses (such as Will-O-Wisping Pokemon like Shiftry trying to Sucker Punch it / Tricking stocky defensive Pokemon).
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Palpitoad707 (Poliwrath from C to B- or B) ✓

I can agree that Poliwrath was a Pokemon initially ranked too low (probably by accident). It still has a plethora of issues, but I'm ok with it being in B.
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Kreepy guy (Hariyama from C to B or B+) ✓

I'm not so ok with vaulting it from C to B+, but I'm ok with it in B- or B. It fits the B rank description a little better than the C rank one.
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Expulso (Rotom-N from B to B+ or A-) ✓

I'm alright with this going to B+.
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Soulgazer (Articuno from C to C+) ✓

Articuno is good for the reasons you described, but I'm reluctant to push it higher because the partners it demands (a Spinner, Defogger, or something like Xatu) almost always double up on all of its weaknesses. Most Defog users are also Flying-type, Cryogonal is Ice-type, Xatu is Flying-type - only Sandslash provides anything of substance to help check its weaknesses, and Sandslash is an admittedly mediocre Pokemon. Issues with synergy are even more prominent if you're trying to cover its SR weakness, and without doing that it's a significantly worse Pokemon.

I'm alright with moving it up, especially if we get other options for hazard removal, but certainly not any higher than that I think (for future reference).
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XenoBlade911 (Vivillon from A- to A, Golem from B- to B or B+) ✓

I'm conflicted on Vivillon. I don't think the "strength" of Vivillon mitigates the weakness to SR, and it still has issues with Pokemon like Scarf Typhlosion or fast Scarfers in general, anything with Ice Shard (Sneasel and Piloswine are big names here), Thunder Wave Togetic (which really should be on most Togetic)... I would appreciate more discussion on the topic. o.o

I'm fine with upping Golem. It's good.
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Honko (Primeape from C to B, Ditto from C to B, Magneton to A-) ✓

I'm fine with all of these.
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Assassin Rogue (Vileplume from B to A) ✓

Punchshroom made a good post on this. I'll be fine with moving it to A-, agreeing with FLCL and Punch.
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Robert Alfons (Accelgor from B to A-) ✓

For your question at the rankings in particular: They're going to be expanded as we discuss. I opted to underestimate Pokemon rather than overestimate them when creating the rankings, so we don't have a bloated perspective on our rankings.

I personally think Accelgor is a fantastic Spiker, and I'd be ok with it going to A- or B+, though I would like more discussion on this because I'm sort of biased on this Pokemon in particular lol.
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FLCL (Omastar from B to A-, Lilligant to B+, Rhydon to B+, Vileplume to A-) ✓

Vileplume was covered, I'm fine with it going to A-. I actually don't agree with Omastar being a better hazard setter than Crustle, since Sturdy + Mental Herb is another significant niche. It's just as good, but not better. Gorebyss is in A- because unlike the other Smashers, it has the ability to pass it. I'm fine with B+ for Omastar, but I'd need a little more convincing for A-.

I'd be okay with a bump for Lilli, though I'm not sure if B or B+ is better for it. Thoughts?

I disagree on dropping Rhydon to B+. Yeah, it's "bait" for Shiftry (watch out for Megahorn tho) and Feraligatr and similar Pokemon, but a specially defensive set does check a great number of Pokemon and it's one of the most dependable SR setters we have. I'm alright with it going to A-, but not all the way down to B+ unless many other people agree with this.
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LightningLuxray (Poliwrath from C to B, Hariyama from C to B- or B, swap Gourgeist formes)

Poliwrath and Hariyama were already posted about. I don't feel that you thinking Gourgeist-S is good makes Gourgeist-XL any less good, but bumping Gourgeist-S seems plausible.
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Snotjoch (Ferroseed to ~B) ✓

I'm fine with this. NFEs weren't ranked because I worked off the Showdown NU list, which did not show NFEs.
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Punchshroom (Sceptile to A-, Granbull to B) ✓

I agree with both of these.
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Aerow (Regirock from C+ to B)

Glad a strategy is working out for you, but Regirock will not be moved up in rank based on its merits as a SmashPass receiver. Snotjoch made a good post explaining why.
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k.r.o.b. (number of things) ✓

I actually forgot entirely that Masquerain gets Sticky Web, but we'll start it off with fellow setter Ariados in C. QuiverPass is currently not a very good niche, because Shell Smash passing is virtually the same thing but better and has a better setter. Magneton has been discussed, and currently it will be placed in A-.

I would be ok with a Fletchinder drop. It struggles with many things and carries similar issues to Articuno in keeping SR away (most partners that do that will stack weaknesses). Malamar to B- or B is far too drastic of an increase, even if it were going to be bumped. I think it's satisfactory in C-, as it has issues getting going against any non-ladder player, has mediocre defenses and poor typing, and nothing particularly useful going for it apart from the novelty of Contrary Superpower.
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Expulso (Spiritomb from A to A+) ✓

Please don't use that font. :(

I'd be alright with a bump to A+ for Spiritomb.
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dingbat (Gourgeist-S from C- to B) ✓

It deserves a bump, but not enough to cover four ranks in one change. It will be either C or C+.
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TheSwagger

Samurott is A- because the SD set is virtually the same as Feraligatr with some slight disadvantages, and it carries the opportunity to run mixed sets / has better coverage on the SD set than Feraligatr. This list is not based on usage, and Samurott is a very viable choice for any team that desires stronger coverage moves in Megahorn / Knock Off or a mixed lure set.
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Jonater (Shiftry from A+ to S)

I'm not going to lean either way on this one, but I would find either option acceptable. I would like more discussion on this.​

Please specify ONE rank you wish to move a Pokemon to. I don't want to see "ehhh x Pokemon should probably be B or B+ or A- maybe if you feel like it". If they aren't debated, the ranks will be updated to reflect these changes later tonight or tomorrow.

 

[Bruggs1552]

Im new to the forums, but I feel that I have a good grasp of the NU metagame. Magmortar, Fletch, and Hariyama are poorly ranked IMO
Magmortar B->A Mag's coverage makes usually counters seems like nothing. Coverage including focus blast, psychic, t-bolt, and hp grass. best special wallbreaker in the tier and is ranked B :P
Fletch B->A- I have used his poke extensively and it sets up on walls such as audino after a willo wisp and wrecks offensive teams without an SD. Great stop to set up sweepers due to gale wings.
Hariyama C->B The AV set can run thick fat for great fire and ice spam protection or guts to protect against random burns or other status.

 

[jake]

Im new to the forums, but I feel that I have a good grasp of the NU metagame. Magmortar, Fletch, and Hariyama are poorly ranked IMO
Magmortar B->A Mag's coverage makes usually counters seems like nothing. Coverage including focus blast, psychic, t-bolt, and hp grass. best special wallbreaker in the tier and is ranked B :P
Fletch B->A- I have used his poke extensively and it sets up on walls such as audino after a willo wisp and wrecks offensive teams without an SD. Great stop to set up sweepers due to gale wings.
Hariyama C->B The AV set can run thick fat for great fire and ice spam protection or guts to protect against random burns or other status.

Hi, welcome to the forums.

Magmortar is ranked B because it is slow and has issues handling teams that are not very slow and bulky. A plethora of priority, faster Pokemon, prominence of SR all weigh down on Magmortar. Magmortar should also never ever be running Psychic.

Fletchinder is B (and should probably be lower, not higher) because it fulfills a distinct niche with priority Flying-type moves but not much else. It struggles breaking through anything with a decent amount of bulk, and a 4x weakness to Stealth Rock complicates the issue even further. Almost all methods to remove SR add to Fletchinder's weaknesses, making it more difficult to build a team with good synergy that actually helps Fletchinder sweep. No item Acrobatics is dismally weak without a boost and fails to KO most neutral targets after they have boosted, making it not so good as a revenge killer.

Hariyama was discussed above and in several other posts. It will probably be bumped up.

 

[Expulso]

fite me irl zeb

Seems like a accurate list so far. I have one nomination.

Nominating Shiftry for A+ Rank -> S rank.

Shiftry boasts the strongest Knock Off and Sucker Punch in NU, which is quite powerful. Its arguably the best offensive defogger in the Tier, being able to use its offensive presence to automatically force switches. Its Swords Dance set is very powerful and in testing, guaranteed atleast half the opposing team went down trying to deal with it. At +2 very few pokemon can stop it. It OHKOs the majority of the tier with its powerful STAB attacks and can even 2HKO some of the most physically defensive of walls with its Knock Off. It is also one of the few pokemon that can run a mixed set with Leaf Storm to hit physical walls and can even run a Nasty Plot set to destroy its usual checks. Those that cannot be OHKOed or 2HKOed with Knock Off will usually fold to a Leaf Storm. Here is some calcs on some of the notable physical walls in the game.

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Granbull: 220-261 (57.2 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Granbull: 296-348 (77 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Life Orb Shiftry Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Granbull: 251-296 (65.3 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Shiftry Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Granbull: 324-382 (84.3 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 165-195 (49.4 - 58.3%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 239-282 (71.5 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 117-138 (29.6 - 35%) -- 13.7% chance to 3HKO
0 SpA Life Orb Shiftry Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Avalugg: 308-363 (78.1 - 92.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Shiftry Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Avalugg: 398-468 (101 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO



Of course, Shiftry is quite frail, and this fraility makes it difficult to set up or defog; however, as stated before, this is immediately negated by its offensive presence which forces switches. But what about Shiftry's poor speed tier? Shiftry's access to Sucker Punch usually OHKO's many of the pokemon that outspeed it. To conclude, Shiftry is a powerful pokemon that I feel deserves S Rank. Feel free to object me or support me in my argument.

While indubitably an excellent Pokemon, I believe that Shiftry isn't worthy of S-Tier. Although it has great offensive prowess and very powerful priority in Sucker Punch, the sheer amount of checks it has, weakness to Mach Punch + Gale Wings Acrobatics, and low Speed hold it back. Many common Pokemon, like Fletchinder, Gurdurr, Sawk, Granbull (holy shit this is good) and Pangoro (why is this thing in C lmao) can take a Knock Off, it's most threatening move, fairly well; Seed Bomb isn't exceptionally strong, though it does have its moments. The Nasty Plot set is useful, as you said, to surprise its usual checks, but is worse outside of that role. Definitely fits A+ more to me.

 

[Bruggs1552]

leaf storm wrecks granbull and would hit sawk extremely hard

 

[Quite Quiet]

Keep Vivillon in B+

Yes Compoundeyes Sleep powder own and Hurricane hurts, but that's all it got. The complete and utter lack up bulk makes it weak to all forms of priority, most notably Ice shard but even things like Aqua Jet, Sucker Punch and Quick Attack does enough to the very meager defenses. And we all know you won't face a team without several kinds of priority if you go for a battle. It's not helping the very awkward speed tier Vivillon finds itself in.

89 looks very decent at first glance. It outspeeds a lot of common walls, most of the bulky offensive threats and some faster things. But then you have to remember that most, if not all (Scarf Sawk is not a thing) scarfers will hover at the 95/100 speed benchmark, all of which can hit Vivillon for super effective damage before it can do anything back, or revenge kill it when it takes something out. Plus running modest (the calcs ran modest, but I'd sooner use timid) means even the base 85's running + speed will take it out before it can even accomplish anything.

That might be the biggest flaw with vivillon, the complete inability to accomplish anything if it isn't faster. Because it can't take any hits, if you aren't outspeeding vivillon won't do anything. It will just be a wasted team slot for you in that case. Priority ignores the speed entirely, making your opponent faster thanks to no priority of its own resulting And then there's the Bug/Flying typing completely removing its ability to even take 4 times resisted hits, on account for switching in on rocks which you most likely will unless you carry a spinner/defogger.

This sounds pretty negative, but if you manage to deal with the priority and resists on your opponents side Vivillon can and will do it's fair share of work. But I personally don't think it's quite as good as some of the others things we have around at the moment. It hits hard, but it suffers and lacks in pretty much everything else.


Sandslash: C -> C+/B-

This thing shouldn't be this low, it's a crime tbh. Being one of the few viable rapid spinners, it stands out from cryogonal in the ability to be physically bulky and deal with most of the stealth rockers thanks to a combination of the Ground tpying and Earthquake/Knock off, while also having the ability to provide rocks of its own. Then there's the sand sweeper, clawing its way straight through teams under sand with it's boosted speed and swords dance. It can even take weaker fire moves if you're pressed and deal very respectable damage even with uninvested earthquake.

Being weak to Water, Grass and Ice sucks though.

Edit: Pachirisu for D

 

[Prince Peach]

Cradily- D -> C+ or B- Cradily is a super strudy pokemon with not that many exploitable weaknesses (YAY Durant is gone). It is immune to water too. It has access to reliable recovery in recover and also gets stealth rocks and also has decent coverage in rock ground and grass moves and also gets setup moves like curse and stockpile if thats your thing

 

[Yellow Cheese]

Accelgor should move to A- ranking imo. Best lead for any Hazard stacking HO team and getting 2 or 3 layers of spikes up 95% of the time is really nice.

 

[Brawlfest]

Qwilfish for A rank. It sets up spikes in a metagame where despite recent additions, Defog / Spin is minimal, and can be easily prevented. Qwilfish can consistently shut down physical threats, and IS the tier's best hazard setter and utility pokemon. Great typing and stats lets it take advantage of a wide range of utility options such as Thunder Wave, Spikes, Taunt, Destiny Bond, etc. It can also go offensive with SD under rain. Overall, Qwilfish is a threat that almost every team should be prepared for, and offers such reliability that it should definitely be A Rank.

Poliwrath has no reason being C Rank we all know this. At least B-

Vileplume to S Rank. I know its bold, but seriously, do we know how much shit this thing checks this generation? Half the tier can't get past it dependant on spread, it pivots reliably, can remove status, shuts down every A Rank mon that is currently listed, has great offensive and defensive potency. At least to A+, possibly S Rank. It is simply one of if not the best mon in the meta atm.

 

[Punchshroom]

Vileplume to S Rank. I know it's bold, but seriously, do we know how much shit this thing checks this generation? Half the tier can't get past it dependant on spread, it pivots reliably, can remove status, shuts down every A Rank mon that is currently listed, has great offensive and defensive potency. At least to A+, possibly S Rank. It is simply one of if not the best mon in the meta atm.

Woah there Brawl, let's not jump the gun here.

Yes, I know (from exceptional personal experience) that Vileplume takes a pretty hard shit on the Pokes that it walls (which is a lot), but the stuff Vileplume can't wall happen to be some of the strongest attackers in the tier. In other words, Vileplume is reminiscent to OU Mega Venusaur: checks a ton of shit, has decent offensive presence & staying power, but can falter against the hardest hitting threats in the tier. Still, being an awesome all-around 'blanket check' against the good majority of weaker neutral attackers (for the record, even fucking Kangaskhan fits the category of the shit Plume can check) is definitely boastworthy. A-, heck even A from me this time, nothing but praises going around for Plume; am I even the only one who dares point out its flaws??

 

[Expulso]

I have some more nominations to put forth.

Leavanny: C+ ---> B

While a seemingly mediocre Pokemon at first glance, Leavanny makes a whole playstyle viable in NU — Sticky Web. This playstyle is excellent in NU, which contains awesome abusers such as Shiftry, Magmortar, Sigilyph, Sawk, Zangoose, and many more. It's very easy to set up, and, due to NU's lack of Spinners / Defiggers, will usually stay up for the duration of the match. Leavanny isn't a bad setter either; it can hit common leads like Uxie, Mesprit and Magic Bounce Xatu with Shadow Claw, fire off Swarm-boosted X-Scissors when Sash activates, and send back Taunts, Hazards, et. al. with a timely Magic Coat. In conclusion, Leavanny is a very underrated but
effective Pokemon, worthy of B at the least.

Tauros: B ---> B+

Although it is faces immense competition from Kangaskhan and Zangoose, Tauros still has great potential in the current metagame. With an absolutely blistering base 110 Speed, Tauros can annihilate many offensive teams, using a LO, Sheer Force-boosted Rock Climb to tear apart offensive Pokemon. In addition, it can even serve as a mixed attacker; merely 16 EVs and a neutral nature allow Tauros to 2HKO 252/20 Steelix! It also gets many other interesting coverage moves, such as Earthquake, Rock Slide, and Zen Headbutt. In conclusion, Tauros is really a cool Pokemon in the current meta; definitely worthy of B+ at least! Also Normal spam is starting to seem pretty legit imo

Pangoro: C+ ---> B-

A new addition in XY, Pangoro is very effective in NU. With its signature move, Parting Shot, Pangoro can act as a bulky pivot, grant a multitude of dangerous sweepers setup opportunities, and more; just watch out for Defiant Primeape and Competitive Wigglytuff! Its unique typing lets it check the following: Sigilyph (shaky), Spiritomb, Shiftry, Liepard, Jynx, and more. Scrappy Fighting-type attacks are another niche Pangoro boasts; this grants it the ability to hit Spiritomb super effectively with a scarily strong Sky Uppercut. In conclusion, Pangoro is a good Pokemon that faces competition from some other Fighters, but is still very viable with two excellent niches.

 

[scorpdestroyer]

Feraligatr for S-rank

- Feraligatr sets up on so many things because it has good bulk
- Feraligatr has good coverage; things like Vileplume cannot be sure to wall it because Feraligatr can set up to +4 after tanking a Giga Drain and KO with Ice Punch
- Feraligatr's Swords Dance sets breaks through many walls with ease.
- Feraligatr's hard counters are quite rare; you don't expect to see stuff like Mantine, Frillish, Ferroseed very often
- DD Gatr is difficult to defeat as well given that it has the luxury of running both Ice Punch and Return
- One of NU's top threats, ask any player for the top threats and Feraligatr will appear on that list.

 

[termi]

Supporting gatr moving up, whenever I see it in team preview it scares me because of how strong and hard to wall it is after an SD. Another big concern is how it is bulky enough to set up on a big part of the meta. Scary af, move up imo

 

[Raseri]

post of changes I think would be cool incoming:

Rhydon down from A to A-:

the metagame really isn't friendly to it right now, with the common Feraligatr, Shiftry, Vileplume, Sigilyph. Every team can deal with Rhydon without much problem. It's still a big threat due to its massive attack and defense, and ability to wall normal-types, but I think A- fits it better.

Accelgor up to B+ from B:
It's a really great offensive spiker with a way to get around Defoggers and spinners, which is absolutely huge. Great speed + coverage make it really hard for some offensive teams to take out without priority. Accelgor can do a whole lot right now, but is stopped from going higher cause it offers almost no defensive synergy.

Crustle up to B from B-:
Stealth Rock + Spikes + Mental Herb + Sturdy = easy hazards. Can also do a Shell Smash set if you can get rid of Seismitoad first. It's my go-to hazards lead for a reason.

Jynx down to B- from B:
Jynx is just so frail, she can't do much of anything in the current metagame I find. Spiritomb traps here into a 50/50, Sigilyph outspeeds non scarf, Shiftry has sucker punch and early bird. I just really don't think Jynx does much in this metagame where everything either OHKOs her, outspeeds her, or both.

Sandslash up to C+ from C:
Earthquake + Knock Off has pretty good coverage, and Sandslash is able to take on most opposing SR setters, exception being Seismitoad. He's a solid spinner. Doesn't really excel at what he does, but is definitely usable and better than everything in C rank.

Mightyena up to C+ from C-:
The moxie set with Spikes support is really hard to stop once it gets going. Sucker Punch for priority is great too, wish he had Knock Off, but hes definitely a really great cleaner in this metagame. But struggles to get that first kill =/. Definitely better than C- though.

Probopass up to C from C-:
One of the best checks to non-CM Sigilyph around, and has Volt Switch for priority. Still sucks vs most of the meta, but taking on the suspect really well is worth C-rank at least right now.

Malamar down from C- to D:
Does nothing ever =///////

 

[Brawlfest]

post of changes I think would be cool incoming:

Rhydon down from A to A-:

the metagame really isn't friendly to it right now, with the common Feraligatr, Shiftry, Vileplume, Sigilyph. Every team can deal with Rhydon without much problem. It's still a big threat due to its massive attack and defense, and ability to wall normal-types, but I think A- fits it better.

Accelgor up to B+ from B:
It's a really great offensive spiker with a way to get around Defoggers and spinners, which is absolutely huge. Great speed + coverage make it really hard for some offensive teams to take out without priority. Accelgor can do a whole lot right now, but is stopped from going higher cause it offers almost no defensive synergy.

Crustle up to B from B-:
Stealth Rock + Spikes + Mental Herb + Sturdy = easy hazards. Can also do a Shell Smash set if you can get rid of Seismitoad first. It's my go-to hazards lead for a reason.

Jynx down to B- from B:
Jynx is just so frail, she can't do much of anything in the current metagame I find. Spiritomb traps here into a 50/50, Sigilyph outspeeds non scarf, Shiftry has sucker punch and early bird. I just really don't think Jynx does much in this metagame where everything either OHKOs her, outspeeds her, or both.

Sandslash up to C+ from C:
Earthquake + Knock Off has pretty good coverage, and Sandslash is able to take on most opposing SR setters, exception being Seismitoad. He's a solid spinner. Doesn't really excel at what he does, but is definitely usable and better than everything in C rank.

Mightyena up to C+ from C-:
The moxie set with Spikes support is really hard to stop once it gets going. Sucker Punch for priority is great too, wish he had Knock Off, but hes definitely a really great cleaner in this metagame. But struggles to get that first kill =/. Definitely better than C- though.

Probopass up to C from C-:
One of the best checks to non-CM Sigilyph around, and has Volt Switch for priority. Still sucks vs most of the meta, but taking on the suspect really well is worth C-rank at least right now.

Malamar down from C- to D:
Does nothing ever =///////

I think Crustle should go to B+, as outside of Qwilfish and Accelgor is the only other viable Spikes Setter, but is also the only one that also has access to stealth rocks. It also can shock people with the shell smash [lol ras rekt me in that one minitour with it lel] to gain a clean. Massive Bulk in 70 / 125 means that it can set up multiple layers without going down, and overall I feel that B+ is the very least to justify its reliability atm. Also gets Knock Off which we all know is baller.

 

[Rowan]

Sceptile -> A+ (at least A)

Seriously one of the most versatile sweepers out there, i don't get why it's in B. It can go special, physical, or mixed, outspeeds everything in the tier (pretty much) and can get round its counters, such as Dragalge with EQ/Dragon Pulse, Vileplume with SD+Acrobatics, Altaria with Dragon Pulse/HP Ice. Due to its unpredictability it's extremely hard to switch in at first. Stuff like AVest Dragalge might switch into Leaf Storm, thinking it can wall Sceptile, only to be smacked by EQ next turn. Its speed actually negates the need for prediction most the time.