Resource XY NU Viability Ranking

[jake]

Some of the other changes eg. Aurorus in C- and Dusknoir in unlisted aren't reflected yet, but I expect that's cos you're tired / are gonna do it later zeb :)

...no it's literally b/c i fell asleep with another tab open and i just hadn't saved the OP :( it's done now though!

brawl bouf is already B-

 

[The Leprechaun]

Uxie not getting bumped up is pretty harsh in my eyes. In your reasoning Zeb, the only set which is mentioned is the rocks lead (I even think this set is undersold) which is only one of a number of highly effective sets. Probably the most threatening is dual screens.

Uxie @ Light Clay/ Mental Herb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Timid/ Jolly Nature
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Memento/ U-turn
- Psychic/ Magic Coat/ Stealth Rock/ U-Turn

We all know how frustrating this is to play against. Uxie has excellent bulk, great speed and good enough typing to easily get off both screens as well as a memento to make it extremely easy for a number mons to set up multiple boosts. You can run u-turn to get up screens multiple times or if you predict a shiftry/ taunter coming in. Magic coat can also be used as a way of defeating taunt or roar or some shit. Memento is also pretty dope for defog blocking as it will prevent a defog if there is no target.

Uxie @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 36 SAtk / 252 HP / 220 Spd
Modest Nature
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt/ Dazzling Gleam

Great speed, dope bulk make it easy to stack boosts and eventually sweep. This was an absolute monster in BW RU and one of the reasons it was a S-ranked threat. It obviously has a lot competition from sigilyph but often it can perform just as well or better than cm sigi sets just because it starts to become invincible after a few boosts; something sigi can't boast.

The fact that Uxie can run all of these so effectively make it a really versatile and dangerous threat. In recent days people have been calling sigi versatile but when you compare it with Uxie who can go from offensive sets all the way to full support and then can act as solid walls it really doesn't look it. Even mentioning these sets doesn't do it justice as it can easily use a whole range of strategies/ moves in its stealth rock set such as trickscarf, heal bell, yawn for phasing, foul play to prevent set-up and i'm sure there are a number of others i haven't mentioned. Uxie is really under-appreciated right now and i'm sure as the metagame progresses people will realise how useful it is.

 

[LightningLuxray]

I'd also like to bring up another SERIOUSLY underrated set in TrickScarf. Seriously, with all the terrifying setup sweepers such as Calm Mind Spiritomb and Cosmic Power Sigilyph, it's hard for stall or even balance to have any way to deal with them. The great thing about TrickScarf Uxie is it renders both these Pokemon useless, utility I've found to be amazing. I'm not going to post the set because it's the same as last gen, but I've found it to be both effective and underrated this gen, and it's really a great stop to those annoying Calm Mind / Bulk Up / Cosmic Power Pokemon.

I know you mentioned it in your port The Leprechaun but I just thought I'd expand on its usefulness a bit more.

 

[Shuckleking87]

Uxie @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Spd or 252 HP/ 52 Def/ 68 SpA/ 136 spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Signal Beam/dazzling gleam

Has been such a good set for me, as it can set up a sub on most defensive pokemon, such as no knock off seismitoad and vileplume, and not really do anything. Usually doesn't scare alot of pokes and if they carry status, will try to get a toxic or t wave, only to get subbed on. With 68 SpA, can kill shiftry with a signal beam after rocks and life orb damage. That is kinda pathetic for a 4x move, but gets the job done. dazzling gleam is probably overall better for dark types, especially spiritomb, though with infiltrator, uxie is not the best idea. Havent thought of t-bolt but thats good for sigilyph. I would say Uxie is at least a B+ if not an A- threat. Only thing holding back is knock off boom

 

[scorpdestroyer]

B-rank description:

Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job or are setup bait for dangerous sweepers. Pokemon who are partially outperformed by a Pokemon in A or S Rank, but are otherwise very dangerous, may also fall into this category.

I think Uxie fits very well in the middle of B rank. It's got some huge flaws. For instance it's piss weak pre-setup leaving it vulnerable to being set up on by dangerous stuff like Klinklang, CroTomb, and Feraligatr. Second big flaw is that Uxie doesn't have any form of recovery. This means that once it takes a lot of damage it's likely to be out of commission for the rest of the match. It's not that hard doing damage to it either with the tier so offensive and with Uxie having to spend time setting up whatever. Uxie cannot handle many things in the tier as they can all work together to wear it down easily and as such I often find it dead weight after it sets up rocks and takes a hit or two.

Yup I'm not going to deny that Uxie can be versatile and offer a lot but I think these flaws are quite noticeable and don't really fit a B+ Pokemon.

Also I said this before but I'd like to re-nominate Feraligatr for S rank. Feraligatr can create lots of free turns by itself due to its above average bulk, the threats of Aqua Jet and the switches it forces. Afterwards it picks apart most Pokemon with either of its sets; most notably it can even get around Seismitoad and Vileplume with appropriate coverage moves. With its good bulk, great power, and fantastic coverage, I think Feraligatr should deserve S rank. I'm sure many would agree that it's one of the top threats of NU as well! Please support if you agree or zeb won't move it up :<

Ursaring from D to C- as well imo. Ursaring isn't that good but at least it's the fastest status orb user that also has coverage. Quick Feet sets that outrun up to Pyroar is a good enough niche to move it up imo, because Zangoose can't beat these threats and Swellow can't hit Rock-types / is weak to residual damage.

 

[Brawlfest]

B-rank description:


I think Uxie fits very well in the middle of B rank. It's got some huge flaws. For instance it's piss weak pre-setup leaving it vulnerable to being set up on by dangerous stuff like Klinklang, CroTomb, and Feraligatr. Second big flaw is that Uxie doesn't have any form of recovery. This means that once it takes a lot of damage it's likely to be out of commission for the rest of the match. It's not that hard doing damage to it either with the tier so offensive and with Uxie having to spend time setting up whatever. Uxie cannot handle many things in the tier as they can all work together to wear it down easily and as such I often find it dead weight after it sets up rocks and takes a hit or two.

Yup I'm not going to deny that Uxie can be versatile and offer a lot but I think these flaws are quite noticeable and don't really fit a B+ Pokemon.

Also I said this before but I'd like to re-nominate Feraligatr for S rank. Feraligatr can create lots of free turns by itself due to its above average bulk, the threats of Aqua Jet and the switches it forces. Afterwards it picks apart most Pokemon with either of its sets; most notably it can even get around Seismitoad and Vileplume with appropriate coverage moves. With its good bulk, great power, and fantastic coverage, I think Feraligatr should deserve S rank. I'm sure many would agree that it's one of the top threats of NU as well! Please support if you agree or zeb won't move it up :<

Ursaring from D to C- as well imo. Ursaring isn't that good but at least it's the fastest status orb user that also has coverage. Quick Feet sets that outrun up to Pyroar is a good enough niche to move it up imo, because Zangoose can't beat these threats and Swellow can't hit Rock-types / is weak to residual damage.

Gatr deserves A+ only because it is a great poke in the meta with significant setup opportunities and amazing sweeping power, but it frankly can be shut down by many of NU's common pokemon, and is absurdly predictable, and while it does its niche well, it really only can perform one niche (SD or DD Sweeping), which it still has competition with stuff like Carracosta and Samurott, one of which gets a guaranteed Setup, and the other of which has a better coverage move and more unpredictability. Even though Gatr is better than both of these, I feel that at most it deserves top A.

 

[The Leprechaun]

B-rank description:


I think Uxie fits very well in the middle of B rank. It's got some huge flaws. For instance it's piss weak pre-setup leaving it vulnerable to being set up on by dangerous stuff like Klinklang, CroTomb, and Feraligatr. Second big flaw is that Uxie doesn't have any form of recovery. This means that once it takes a lot of damage it's likely to be out of commission for the rest of the match. It's not that hard doing damage to it either with the tier so offensive and with Uxie having to spend time setting up whatever. Uxie cannot handle many things in the tier as they can all work together to wear it down easily and as such I often find it dead weight after it sets up rocks and takes a hit or two.

Yup I'm not going to deny that Uxie can be versatile and offer a lot but I think these flaws are quite noticeable and don't really fit a B+ Pokemon.

Tbh dude, i feel that it's easily an A- poke. You quote the B rank description but I'd argue that it doesn't fit that at all. In its support role of dual screens it is the perfect poke and it always makes set-up sweepers incredibly dangerous but there is really not much at all which can stop it from getting at least one screen up as well as a memento.

I'd also say that the assertion that it's piss weak and therefore bad before set-up is also pretty unfair. First of all, feraligatr does not set-up on cm uxie.

36+ SpA Uxie Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 138-164 (36.8 - 43.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+2 252+ Atk Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Uxie: 196-232 (55.3 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

1v1 Uxie wins this battle and if it's fast sd or dd, gatr gets 2hko'd.

Also, Mentioning crotomb and klingklang as mons that can set-up on uxie is strange - these mons are good because they set-up on a whole bunch of shit. Crotomb sets up on anything not named granbull and klingklang finds it easy to gain boosts on half the tier. Also, the reason why CM Uxie is so threatening is because it can set-up on so much opposing shit. Pretty much every defensive poke not carrying roar and most specially oriented pokes are prone to cm uxie setting up on them. What's worse is that you don't know it's going to be cm until it's started to set up.

Standard rocks Uxie has also been getting a lot of stick, for many of the same reasons - weak offensively and apparently doesn't do much. I'd argue it can be extremely useful on many teams. With excellent 75/130/130 defences, ground immunity and a whole range of support moves to neuter opposing threats i have no idea why people think this is only B-rank. Set up mons like lilligant, gatr and barbaracle are unable to set up for fear of thunder wave which is probably the most standard. Even if they are holding a lum berry, Uxie's bulk prevents a 2hko from so much shit that it'll be able to get off 2 t-waves very often.

I'd really like people to consider Uxie for a higher ranking placement. In BW RU Uxie filled the same roles I've mentioned and was a pretty undisputed S-rank mon. Even though we're talking about a different meta, I'd argue that this tier is just as kind to it as RU was to it last gen.

 

[horyzhnz]

Nomming Malamar for at least C+; while its typing is pretty shitty and its none of its stats shine, I reckon it does have some interesting uses that should at least pull it out from the bottom of the C range.

It gets pretty good coverage with Superpower, Psycho Cut, and Night Slash, and Contrary Superpower is always fun to abuse. A Choice Scarf set with Topsy-Turvy can easily halt the likes of Swords Dance Feraligatr, Shiftry, and Samurott, Bulk Up Poliwrath, Nasty Plot Mismagius, and most CM users, basically acting as an emergency kill-switch for stuff that might threaten to sweep your team, then you can use Switcheroo and cripple something later in the game as well. Aside from that, it can switch into things like Sticky Web (uncommon, but it exists) and Parting Shot to take advantage of the free boosts, sweep pretty well under Trick Room, and it can even run a somewhat effective Assault Vest set by using Contrary Superpower to patch up its physical defense, giving it a snowball effect, especially when under Trick Room.

 

[Peef Rimgar]

Nominating Monferno for D/C- Rank

Monferno has the rare distinction of being a set-up sweeper that doesn't give 2 shits about Shiftry. Even with no defense investment, it avoids 3HKOes from all of Shiftry's common moves. Plus, after a Nasty Plot it can do a surprising amount of work. Nothing meta defining, but definitely worth a mention

 

[Agent Gibbs]

The problem with Monferno is that I see no real reason to use it over Combusken, a Pokemon's who is slightly bulkier and stronger and who can make up for its speed problems with one of the best offensive abilities in the game. Not to mention that it gets Baton Pass to add a new depth to its offensive sets. Sure, it can't use Nasty Plot like Monferno can, but it's not like Nasty Plot Monferno is even a good sweeper in its own right. Even outside of the raw competition it faces, Monferno really just does not look like a good sweeper at all. Base 78 offenses are pretty low, and it's not like it has great bulk or speed to make up for it. Being able to handle Shiftry is a really poor reason to use Monferno over a ton of other sweepers. The only real niche I could see for Monferno is the old Stealth Rock lead set with Endeavor and Taunt, and even that's more of a gimmick than anything. I really wouldn't rank Monferno at all.

 

[Yellow Cheese]

Nominating Monferno for D/C- Rank

Monferno has the rare distinction of being a set-up sweeper that doesn't give 2 shits about Shiftry. Even with no defense investment, it avoids 3HKOes from all of Shiftry's common moves. Plus, after a Nasty Plot it can do a surprising amount of work. Nothing meta defining, but definitely worth a mention

While I do personally think Monferno is worth the D-ranking, Zebraiken did mention this in his last update:

I really don't want to put Slaking in D, because it is among the worst Pokemon you can actually pick for a team. Losing one of every two turns while it's out is such a horrid notion that it's not even worth suggesting that it's usable. I mean, I'll do it if there is a lot of support, but Slaking is seriously rather horrible in XY NU and belongs among the "you're a noob" pile of Pokemon that you see on the ladder, such as Beautifly and Monferno.
​

Also, since Zebraiken does not approve of Slaking, what about Vigoroth? I have yet to try him out in NU, but since some other Eviolite mons are on the list, why not him? In theorymon he looks like a solid D-rank pokemon. With reliable recovery in slack off, Vigoroth looks like a decent Bulk up mon.

Another thing, I would like to move Combusken from B to B+
Baton passing speed boosts is so good with all the slow, yet powerfull pokemon in the tier. most notably is Sawk, which plows through most offensive teams after getting passed 2 boosts. the Bulk up + speed boosts combo is very good, and lets you pass alot safer. Fletch cant revenge kill you either which is nice.

252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. +2 0 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Combusken: 98-116 (37.5 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. +2 0 HP / 0 Def Sawk: 170-204 (58.4 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Edit: I fucked up with the quotes and Agent gibbs

 

[Punchshroom]

252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. +2 0 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Combusken: 98-116 (37.5 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. +2 0 HP / 0 Def Sawk: 170-204 (58.4 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Just saying that the Fletch calc against Combusken is almost impossible to occur. Fletch either switches in on a +1 Combusken and attacks, or simply Swords Dances to match Combusken's Bulk Ups and strikes from there. There's little reason for Fletch to Acro straight into a +2 Ken without any boosts on its own (and even then it's Acroing into +1 Combusken at worst); heck, should Fletch manage to match Combusken's Bulk Ups, there's still the risk of it using Swords Dance again on your Baton Pass so that your receiver gets hit hard. I also don't know what kind of Combusken would favor no HP over Defense, but I digress.

Edit:

First of all, feraligatr does not set-up on cm uxie.

36+ SpA Uxie Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 138-164 (36.8 - 43.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+2 252+ Atk Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Uxie: 196-232 (55.3 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

1v1 Uxie wins this battle and if it's fast sd or dd, gatr gets 2hko'd.

Actually this falls into the (ridiculously) wide range of shit that Gatr can set up on. Should Uxie TBolt again, it pushes Gatr into Torrent range and lets it fuck up Uxie with Waterfall + Aqua Jet. I don't usually see a CM Modest Uxie with 36 SpA EVs either (usually max HP max Speed), so Uxie can be expected to do even less damage.

 

[Yellow Cheese]

Just saying that the Fletch calc against Combusken is almost impossible to occur. Fletch either switches in on a +1 Combusken and attacks, or simply Swords Dances to match Combusken's Bulk Ups and strikes from there. There's little reason for Fletch to Acro straight into a +2 Ken without any boosts on its own (and even then it's Acroing into +1 Combusken at worst); heck, should Fletch manage to match Combusken's Bulk Ups, there's still the risk of it using Swords Dance again on your Baton Pass so that your receiver gets hit hard. I also don't know what kind of Combusken would favor no HP over Defense, but I digress.

I run max def> HP just for fletch lol

 

[Ares]

Also I said this before but I'd like to re-nominate Feraligatr for S rank. Feraligatr can create lots of free turns by itself due to its above average bulk, the threats of Aqua Jet and the switches it forces. Afterwards it picks apart most Pokemon with either of its sets; most notably it can even get around Seismitoad and Vileplume with appropriate coverage moves. With its good bulk, great power, and fantastic coverage, I think Feraligatr should deserve S rank. I'm sure many would agree that it's one of the top threats of NU as well! Please support if you agree or zeb won't move it up :<

I will second (or third or fourth or w/e order i agree in) your nomination for Feraliagtr to S-rank. The various sets that Feraligatr can run mean that if you dont have the appropriate counter to it you will get swept. After discussing it with Punchshroom and making the Fuck yo Plume set. He discovered, thanks to calcs trying to prove me wrong, that Feraligatr can set up a swords dance on the switch into plume, set up another swords dance and take 66% from giga drain, then OHKO with ice punch and be in torrent range to be able to sweep the rest of the opponents team. (the most notable counters to this set are poliwrath and lanturn) Then other sets that run frustration are able to easily take out the prior counters and then you can proceed to sweep.

Attempting to status Feraligatr isnt an option because 95% of Feraligatrs run Lum Berry. So the usual check to a set up sweeper of T-waving or sleeping them isnt an option.

The great bulk that Feralgatr has allows it to set up on pretty much any pokemon that doesnt have a stab SE move with a base power of 90 or higher invested.

Also on a side note DD Gatr is also decent allowing you to outspeed threats, that could otherwise come in and take the aqua jet and kill like magneton, and then kill them with waterfall and sweep. This set is good if you teambuild around it, but overall Swords dance is the better set up move.

The above and the fact it gets stab priority with torrent should make it more than enough to move up to S-rank.

 

[Ares]

Stunfisk to C+: Stunfisk is a very good wall that can reliably set up rocks. It stops various flying types and electric types. Some major ones are Fletchinder, Magneton, Swellow, Klinklang, Raichu. And can take on other pokes reasonably well if at full health like: Pyroar, Lanturn, rotom-fan, Archeops. And you are very likely to get something paralyzed while using fisk, from the static ability to the 30% from discharge. After paralyzing major threats it makes them very easy to revenge kill. The one thing people have a problem with is no reliable recovery. I however like to run rest on stunfisk, and in combination with a heal beller/aromatherapy user (which i like to have on teams anyways) it makes it easy to rest switch out and heal bell later on. The set I've been using:
Stunfisk @ Leftovers
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 HP / 88 SDef / 168 Def
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Discharge
- Earth Power
- Rest
I have found this to be very good at taking hits on both sides and either paralyzing something or setting up rocks.

 

[SPACE FORCE meeps]

just from experience playing against feraligatr, i've honestly never had too much of a problem with it. and i dont really think it's worthy of s-tier. sceptile, shiftry, and lilligant are common grass-types which outspeed feraligatr and have no problem ohkoing it. while none of them are capable of taking and ice punch from feraligatr, running any one of them may make things tough for feraligatr, as mispredicting and using water attack or sd when one of the aforementioned grass-types switch in throws off momentum giving them a free attack while feraligatr is generally forced to switch (i really dont find feraligatr that hard to predict as well, whether im using offense or more bulky offense /defensive teams). electric-tyoes give it problems too, notably magneton, rotom-s, rotom-f, and lanturn. bulky magneton (252 hp and eviolite) is capable of taking a +2 lo waterfall from feraligatr, while magneton can ko in return (flinch can give it problems sometimes though, so it's just somewhat reliable). the two rotom forms mentioned are bulky enough to take a +2 aqua jet after rocks and retaliate with thunderbolt, lanturn is a bit shaky as 252 hp / 4 def lanturn fears +2 return from feraligatr, but it can take waterfall and ice punch rather easily. the final coverage move on feraligatr makes a difference as well, as vileplume wins if feraligatr runs return, while ice punch feraligatr may lose to seismitoad. im pretty sure lo is a better item on feraligatr honestly, considering there isnt much that uses twave and the pokemon that may put it to sleep would rather do damage or shouldnt really be in vs feraligatr anyways (vileplume, vivillon which shouldnt be in vs feraligatr anyways, sleep is hardly common as well). overall, feraligatr really doesnt get too many easy setup opportunities, can be thrown off significantly if it mispredicts, and struggles to take advantage of a boost unless the opponent attempts to check it with vileplume or seismitoad. so i think it's fine where it is

 

[Quite Quiet]

just from experience playing against feraligatr, i've honestly never had too much of a problem with it. and i dont really think it's worthy of s-tier. sceptile, shiftry, and lilligant are common grass-types which outspeed feraligatr and have no problem ohkoing it. while none of them are capable of taking and ice punch from feraligatr, running any one of them may make things tough for feraligatr, as mispredicting and using water attack or sd when one of the aforementioned grass-types switch in throws off momentum giving them a free attack while feraligatr is generally forced to switch (i really dont find feraligatr that hard to predict as well, whether im using offense or more bulky offense /defensive teams). electric-tyoes give it problems too, notably magneton, rotom-s, rotom-f, and lanturn. bulky magneton (252 hp and eviolite) is capable of taking a +2 lo waterfall from feraligatr, while magneton can ko in return (flinch can give it problems sometimes though, so it's just somewhat reliable). the two rotom forms mentioned are bulky enough to take a +2 aqua jet after rocks and retaliate with thunderbolt, lanturn is a bit shaky as 252 hp / 4 def lanturn fears +2 return from feraligatr, but it can take waterfall and ice punch rather easily. the final coverage move on feraligatr makes a difference as well, as vileplume wins if feraligatr runs return, while ice punch feraligatr may lose to seismitoad. im pretty sure lo is a better item on feraligatr honestly, considering there isnt much that uses twave and the pokemon that may put it to sleep would rather do damage or shouldnt really be in vs feraligatr anyways (vileplume, vivillon which shouldnt be in vs feraligatr anyways, sleep is hardly common as well). overall, feraligatr really doesnt get too many easy setup opportunities, can be thrown off significantly if it mispredicts, and struggles to take advantage of a boost unless the opponent attempts to check it with vileplume or seismitoad. so i think it's fine where it is

This is all fine and well, but Gatr also have a DD set that it can use just as well. And it removes several of those grass types as options because they're all frail and gets outsped by a 252 gatr at +1, not to mention the better coverage you can run when you don't need AJ to beat things. It has a bit harder time setting up than the SD set, which can set up on like half the tier (where do you even find this "have troubles setting up" thing?) Of the electrics you listed only Rotom-F isn't hit super effectively by the DD set. It doesn't do wallbreaking nearly as good as the SD set, but it got a much easier time sweeping.

I'm not sure if I personally would move it up, but Gatr holds two very dangerous sets in their own right and you have to be careful around.

 

[g]

Nominating Steelix for C+/B-
It is the best defensive Steel Type in the tier and one of the most physically bulky Pokemon. It's access to Sturdy makes it very reliable to setup Stealth Rock or even phaze something threatening out in a pinch. It can also run a more offensive Sheer Force set effectively thanks to its impressive physical tanking capabilities even if uninvested. Anyway it is really prone to special attacks and very slow

Ludicolo should also move up to B+ as it is an amazing standalone rain sweeper who finds a lot of opportunities to setup thanks to its good special bulk. It tears apart a lot of offensive teams with its high Speed and ridicolously powerful Rain boosted Hydro Pump and is a cool offensive check to Feraligatr. It is not perfect obviously as common bulky offensive Pokemon like Dragalge and Cryogonal can check it but still a massive threat every time you see it in team preview.

Quick thoughts on stuff that probably needs to move or be discussed

Golem to B- (as it is really outclassed by Rhydon bar Sucker Punch)
Vivillon to A- (has a super accurate sleep powder and pokemon immune to it are murdered by hurricane, also has good sweeping potential)
Dragalge to A- (limited switch ins for specs who can also check fire types)
Miltank to C- (really fast cleric and checks physical attacker like Shiftry or Fire and Ice types somewhat, better than D imo)

Also i don't agree on Vigoroth being ranked as it is outclassed by Gurdurr bar its access to Taunt and Slack Off. Monferno checks Shiftry tho but im not sure about its viability

 

[Quite Quiet]

Vivillon to A- (has a super accurate sleep powder and pokemon immune to it are murdered by hurricane, also has good sweeping potential)
Dragalge to A- (limited switch ins for specs who can also check fire types)

I already wrote a lengthy post with my opinion on Vivillon and why it doesn't fit in A- a few pages back, so I won't say that again.

Dragalge I agree with though. With it's very unique typing it get loads of important resists (Fighting, Fire, Water, etc...) and fits as both support set with Toxic Spikes, scald and other fun options, while not being easy to set up on thanks to dragon tail and scald. Then there's the specs set which hits very hard, because STAB Draco is no joke. The 44 speed is somewhat disappointing, because it just miss out on the base 45's like Golem. The support set is one of the best answers to fire spam, as it resists both the stab and most of the coverage options they run, exceptions being Pyroar's Hyper Voice and EQ Magmortar.

Kecleon to B-: Disregarding the PuP, because it's a really awkward set to use when you have base 40 speed and barely any coverage thanks to so many incompatible moves, Kecleon can still run what is probably the best priority spammer in the tier. With base 90 attack and a flexible typing it have STAB on every move it wants to run. With Fake out and Sucker Punch Kecleon threatens to kill most of the fast frail threats in the tier, that rely on their speed to take out enemies. It can't boast about countering anything, but with fake out, sucker punch and shadow sneak it can threaten to revenge kill almost the entire tier. It's important to note that Kecleons sucker punch is quite a bit stronger than most, thanks to protean and a decent attack.

It's downsides is the lack of speed and very lacking physical bulk, but it can somewhat get around those with a typing change to resist attacks if it has to take them. It does get access to recover for healing if it really needs it so it can avoid getting worn down with hazards. In my opinion though Kecleon fits the description of B better than that of C, because it really doesn't need much support to revenge kill and if you switch out when it comes in then it did what it had to and stopped a sweep.

 

[glock in my toyota]

Haunter from C+ to B-/B
Haunter, with a substantially above-average movepool and many different options in it's sets (Life Orb, Scarf, Specs, SubDisable, SubSplit), is deserving of a higher rank than C+. It makes for great glue on a team, especially the TrickScarf set. Shadow Ball/Sludge Bomb/Destiny Bond/Trick is such a great set on almost any team. His Dual STABs are great, and have good coverage, hitting most Pokemon in the tier for Neutral or Super-Effective Damage. Tricking a scarf can ruin many Pokemon's strategies, like CM Spiritomb, and a Scarf Destiny Bond can end a lot of sweeps. Even if the Scarf has already been tricked, Destiny Bond isn't seen all that much, and many people don't expect it. Also, being scarfed, it can OHKO Offensive Sigilyph With Shadow Ball, and a lot of the time, people, not expecting the scarf, will stay in and go for a Psychic/Psyshock, but since you outspeed, you kill it with ease. Haunter can also clean up with a Scarf STAB move, if your team has supported for it.

In all, I think Haunter is severely underrated, and deserves at least B- Rank.

 

[Scarlet Firefly]

Actually, honestly, I feel that Feraligatr should be knocked down to A rank or A- rank.

Sure, its bulky, but its slow as molasses and has one of the most garbage movepool in the tier. Aqua Jet is fun, but 40 Base Power isn't going to hurt anyone unless you're Typhlosion or Archeops. Many people say that it has good bulk, I agree on that point, but so do many others like Hariyama. Then, they claim it has many setup opportunities: The Swords Dance set is terribly slow, and unless your team is very weak to Water or has terrible Speed, I don't think Feraligatr is going to sweep anyone any time soon. The Dragon Dance set, is very lacking in power. +1 Waterfall cannot take down Spiritomb (for lack of a better example). Feraligatr is setup bait for setup gods like Omastar, Gorebyss, Shiftry (Aqua Jet me please!), Barbaracle (eats +2 Waterfalls like a man) and many more. It's terribly low Speed prevents it from functioning as a sweeper and Aqua Jet is merely a mitigation, it is not a solution at all. When its only other sweeping move besides Waterfall is Frustration, you can see that its movepool has serious problems.

Did I mention that it gets hard blocked by very common stuff like Seismitoad, Vileplume(with speed), Poliwrath, Cacturne?!, Ludicolo, Ferroseed, I can go on...

edit: I also realise that 252+ unboosted Ice Punch by Feraligatr cannot OHKO Shiftry... what is this thing doing in A+?

 

[ryan]

Vullaby should be moved to like low C or high D. Does anyone actually use that? And why would I use it over Togetic, which has considerably better special bulk and comparable physical bulk, along with typing to check Fighting-types in addition to the Dark-types that Vullaby checks? I suppose if you needed a niche Ghost resist, it would be an option, but otherwise, I'd just rather use Togetic.

Meanwhile, Camerupt should go up for sure. It's a good defensive Pokemon that completely shits on Magneton and every other Electric-type not named Lanturn, while also providing a check to all the crazy offensive Fire-types in the tier. EQ Magmortar is kind of annoying for it, but otherwise it's a great check to those Pokemon. I'd recommend mid C, as it doesn't really have to bulk to take on Fire-types repeatedly through the match, but can help wear them down in order for something more offensive to pick them off later. It also checks Klinklang, as it is only 2HKO'd by +1 Return, while it deals enough damage to Klinklang in return to make it easy to revenge with priority:

0 SpA Camerupt Earth Power vs. 160 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 234-276 (77.7 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

or if you're running EQ:

0 SpA Camerupt Lava Plume vs. 160 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 206-246 (68.4 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

That's just an arbitrary amount of HP EVs btw, and it's more than what I normally run.

Basically, Camerupt soft checks lots of scary stuff, but hard counters very little, which is why it would be a good fit for mid C-rank.

 

[Peef Rimgar]

Actually, honestly, I feel that Feraligatr should be knocked down to A rank or A- rank.

Sure, its bulky, but its slow as molasses and has one of the most garbage movepool in the tier. Aqua Jet is fun, but 40 Base Power isn't going to hurt anyone unless you're Typhlosion or Archeops. Many people say that it has good bulk, I agree on that point, but so do many others like Hariyama. Then, they claim it has many setup opportunities: The Swords Dance set is terribly slow, and unless your team is very weak to Water or has terrible Speed, I don't think Feraligatr is going to sweep anyone any time soon. The Dragon Dance set, is very lacking in power. +1 Waterfall cannot take down Spiritomb (for lack of a better example). Feraligatr is setup bait for setup gods like Omastar, Gorebyss, Shiftry (Aqua Jet me please!), Barbaracle (eats +2 Waterfalls like a man) and many more. It's terribly low Speed prevents it from functioning as a sweeper and Aqua Jet is merely a mitigation, it is not a solution at all. When its only other sweeping move besides Waterfall is Frustration, you can see that its movepool has serious problems.

Did I mention that it gets hard blocked by very common stuff like Seismitoad, Vileplume(with speed), Poliwrath, Cacturne?!, Ludicolo, Ferroseed, I can go on...

Yeah this has pretty much been my thoughts for the last two days but I was far too sick to write up anything semi-intelligent. Seconded.

Also, if anything in the tier needs to go up to S-Rank right now, it's motherfucking Shiftry.

Shiftry is by far the most threatening offensive threat in the tier. On it's own, it forces the fair majority of successful NU teams into (Hyper) Offense. It has the most powerful Knock Off in NU (iirc) and a great Revenge Killing STAB in Sucker Punch. It also has great boosting options in SD and Nasty Plot, allowing it to be very difficult to check due to versatility. Between it's force of centralization of the metagame and versatility, I'd boost Shiftry to S

 

[lol kingler]

Actually, honestly, I feel that Feraligatr should be knocked down to A rank or A- rank.
Did I mention that it gets hard blocked by very common stuff like Seismitoad, Vileplume(with speed), Poliwrath, Cacturne?!, Ludicolo, Ferroseed, I can go on...

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Feraligatr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 322-380 (90.9 - 107.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Feraligatr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 161-192 (45.4 - 54.2%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Feraligatr Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 235-278 (56.7 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Feraligatr Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 204-240 (53.1 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Not going to bother with Cacturne and Ludicolo because they are definitely not counters. Cacturne is pretty decent check as it can't be hit with Aqua Jet and Sucker Punch does around half. Ludicolo isn't even really a check, it's 2HKO by 252+ LO return even with 252 hp. Ferroseed is very solid counter.

Basically, you can't reliable counter Feraligatr without knowing whether it's SD or DD and without what 2 moves it has out of Aqua Jet, Ice Punch and Return. Not only that, pokes that can check it like Seismatoad and Poliwrath don't have reliable recovery and can't do much back to Feraligatr besides statusing it with Toxic or a lucky Scald or phazing it out (Poliwrath). While these two can break down Feraligatr to the point where he can be revenged or that he'll die from status or LO, they certainly don't beat it one on one. Vileplume can check it but to do that reliably you have to sacrifice a poke to get Vileplume a free switch.

You also that Feraligatr is set up bait for Omastar
252+ Atk Life Orb Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Omastar: 133-157 (47.1 - 55.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

and Gorebyss
252+ Atk Life Orb Feraligatr Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gorebyss: 133-156 (42.3 - 49.6%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

and Shiftry (It could stay in and OHKO Shiftry if it decides to set up so certainly not. You must by very confused by the term set up bait.)

Barbaracle (you say it "eats +2 Waterfalls like a man") (no hp or def on calcs cause it's supposedly set up fodder and you don't run those evs with shell smash)
252+ Atk Life Orb Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Barbaracle: 142-169 (49.6 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Barbaracle: 286-337 (100 - 117.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I wouldn't be completely opposed to Feraligatr being A rank because it's fairly easy to revenge or wear down, and arguably best thing to revenge it with is arguably the other most dominate poke in the tier (Shiftry). But to say it's set up bait or easily countered is completely false. Feraligatr is similar to Sigilyph in that you cannot effectively play around it until you know it's moves, items, and what speed it's running (not saying that it's common or advisable but Jolly Feraligatr beats Adamant Shiftry).

 

[Scarlet Firefly]

Do Feraligatr commonly run Life Orb? No, in fact they normally run Lum Berry or Leftovers. Do you always assume Stealth Rock on the field for Vileplume? No, you do not always get to set up Stealth Rock against the opponent.

These are the exception rather than the rule, and as such your calcs are faulty. In fact,

252+ SpA Vileplume Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 282-332 (90.3 - 106.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Vileplume Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 282-332 (90.3 - 106.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Do you always assume that Feraligatr will be able to get up to +2? Because my point is that: If Feraligatr is not +2, it WILL be blocked by the Pokemon stated above. If Feraligatr is +2, well then we simply get a faster check to OHKO it!

Cacturne is pretty decent check as it can't be hit with Aqua Jet and Sucker Punch does around half.

I think the Cacturne I had in mind was going to use Seed Bomb...

Ludicolo isn't even really a check, it's 2HKO by 252+ LO return even with 252 hp.

It's definitely a check; 252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 320-377 (102.5 - 120.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO. It certainly can't take two Returns but it can easily 1v1 and defeat Feraligatr.

You also that Feraligatr is set up bait for Omastar
252+ Atk Life Orb Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Omastar: 133-157 (47.1 - 55.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

and Gorebyss
252+ Atk Life Orb Feraligatr Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gorebyss: 133-156 (42.3 - 49.6%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

and Shiftry (It could stay in and OHKO Shiftry if it decides to set up so certainly not. You must by very confused by the term set up bait.)

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear about what I meant when I mentioned set up bait. By that, I refer to the above pokemon easily setting up Shell Smash and OHKO Feraligatr (with HP Grass), along with the rest of its team.

Barbaracle (you say it "eats +2 Waterfalls like a man") (no hp or def on calcs cause it's supposedly set up fodder and you don't run those evs with shell smash)
252+ Atk Life Orb Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Barbaracle: 142-169 (49.6 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Barbaracle: 286-337 (100 - 117.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Regarding Barbaracle, you do have a point there. But I also have a point here:

+2 252+ Atk Feraligatr Lum Berry/Leftovers Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Barbaracle: 220-259 (76.9 - 90.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Feraligatr Lum Berry/Leftovers Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Barbaracle: 220-259 (76.9 - 90.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock


In conclusion, I feel that my argument still stands and is still valid: Feraligatr is extremely easy to check, and also fairly easy to counter because he has only few viable moves: Aqua Jet, Waterfall, Return, edit:Earthquake(sorry!) and Ice Punch (Crunch, if you must). Because it is easily countered, therefore it will be set up bait for the right Pokemon.

As a result, it should not be in A+ rank.