Resource RU Viability Ranking

[Durant]

Speaking about oddly shaped things that can Rapid Spin:

Unranked > C rank

Why hasn't this thing been brought up by anyone lol. So Cryogonal is quite a good Rapid Spin user at the moment. It can Rapid Spin and has a useful immunity to Spikes and Stealth Rock. Thanks to Recover it can stay around for a long period of time. Cryogonal also has other useful support moves like Haze and Toxic making it fill multiple roles rather effectively. Ice typing doesn't suck as much for a specially defensive Pokemon as you think because the only common special weakness Cryogonal has is Fire. Cryogonal can take on most special attackers well and usually stall them out with Toxic, Recover and possibly Haze which makes me think it should be ranked.

How Cryogonal fares as a spinner:
Cryogonal does it's job as a spinner really good. Surely a Stealth Rock weakness and terrible physical bulk may throw you off but it has multiple qualities to make up for that. First of all thanks to it's ability Levitate it is immune to Spikes, Toxic Spikes and Sticky Web which is really useful. Now surely there are multiple hazard removers with this trait like Gligar, Mantine and the stupid Claydol thing but Cryogonal still appreciates it. Secondly Cryogonal also learns Recover which helps him stay around for much longer and gives Cryogonal the ability to use Rapid Spin multiple times throughout the match. Cryogonal can also come in on most special attackers thanks to it's great special defense invested and lack of many weaknesses of the special side which gives Cryogonal the ability to switch in multiple times and Rapid Spin Thanks to it's good speed it can also get off a quick Recover which is really useful for stalling out certain threats. Compared to most spinners Cryogonal also has a surprisingly good offensive presence thanks to base 95 special attack and STAB Ice attacks. Cryogonal also fares pretty well against most spinblockers. Most Ghost types like Cofagrigus and Jellicent are worn down over time thanks to Toxic, Ice Beam and Recover and Cryogonal usually wins versus these Pokemon 1 vs 1. It does suck that Cryogonal doesn't fare as well versus the most common spinblockers in Doublade and Mega Banette but it isn't helpless against those. Doublade takes a shit ton from Hidden Power Fire and can even be 2 hit KO'd after a bit of residual damage which makes it tough for Doublade to switch in on Cryogonal. Cryogonal also outspeeds Doublade and Shadow Sneak does around 55% damage which Cryogonal can Recover of later in the match. As for Mega Banette you can Toxic it on the switch and wear it down over time, watch out though as Cryogonal can't take physical hits nicely at all.

Other uses:
Besides using Rapid Spin there are still some more uses Cryogonal has and it can all fulfill those roles pretty well. Cryogonal gets Haze which allows it to stop any special attacking set up sweeper not named Delphox. Thanks to Haze Cryogonal can also act as a pseudo phazer on stall teams. Thanks to the lack of viable Haze users outside of Golbat this means that this instantly gives Cryogonal a solid niche on stall teams. While Toxic is a move almost every single Pokemon can learn it still is a great tool for Cryogonal. With a fast Recover and high special defense Cryogonal can effectively stall out most special attackers. However if you are not interested in all this defensive bullshit fear not because Cryogonal also makes for an effective offensive Pokemon. With a Life Orb attached Cryogonal's above average special attack gets a boost and makes it respectably strong. While it's movepool is sort of lacking in the offensive department it still hits most threats for neutral damage with Ice Beam, Freeze Dry and Hidden Power Fire. A quick Recover helps deal with the Life Orb recoil and Stealth Rock weakness while Cryogonal can also provide Rapid Spin support for offensive teams. Offensive Cryogonal is useful for teams that need a special attacker and a hazard remover that isn't affected by Sticky Web.

Final verdict:
Cryogonal can fit on both offensive and stall teams thanks to it's unique traits which is why I think it should be ranked in C. It does have the aforementioned problems like Stealth Rock weakness, terrible physical bulk and not so good typing but his positive traits certainly make up for the negative ones.

 

[MikeDawg]

I think that Cyro can maybe find its way into C- Rank

After spending a bit of time coming up with arguments for D rank, I found that it actually isn't too too bad.

Aside from spinning, it is close to deadweight against most of the meta, but so is Claydol. Cyrogonal fares better than claydol against the majority of the spinblockers as well, having the ability to beat jellicent, cofag, and sometimes doublade. After a bit of residual damage, doublade can't switch in without being 2hkod by hp fire. Cyro can elect to focus even more on spinning and run modest to secure a better chance of 2hko on doub, but cyro's fantastic speed tier (105) discourages this. Then again, it doesn't exactly have many options for actually beating the things that timid lets it outspeed, so it wouldn't be the worst choice ever. Freeze dry modest does ~70% to alomomola. That's pretty nice. Heck, it can go all the way and run expert belt or life orb to secure an easy 2hko on doublade and a very near 1hko on alo. Especially if running modest, it can elect to invest more in hp to give it extra bulk. It can check yanmega (can't switch in though unless bulky set). unfortunately, that's the only mon that it can check in A+ aside from Doublade kinda.

It fares similarly against the A rank mons. It can check alomomola and it can toxic slowking and that's about it.

In fact, it is beaten by the great majority of the meta.

Also stealth rock weakness + rapid spin are not a great combo.

Still, it has a niche in being a relatively good spinner against the tier's current offerings (Except bannete (though it can 2hko on the switchin kinda)).

Is that niche more important than sucking? You decide.

 

[cressida]

i think MikeDawg got it - it's certainly not the best spinner the tier has to offer, and is often situationally outclassed by claydol, but the fact that it can check staples like alomomola merits it at least a C-rank, IMO. i've had decent success using it as a spinner, though it does have some problems against common spinblockers that claydol can better resolve.

cress

 

[Durant]

i think MikeDawg got it - it's certainly not the best spinner the tier has to offer, and is often situationally outclassed by claydol, but the fact that it can check staples like alomomola merits it at least a C-rank, IMO. i've had decent success using it as a spinner, though it does have some problems against common spinblockers that claydol can better resolve.

Sorry but how does Claydol exactly outclass Cryogonal at all? Cryogonal is a fast spinner with reliable recovery and some useful moves like Haze while it also has a good offensive presence unlike Claydol. Claydol however provides a few useful resistances like Fighting, Ground, Electric and Rock while being able to beat Doublade. However it lacks reliable recovery and still has a buttload of weaknesses which make me think Claydol is actually worse than Cryogonal.

EDIT: Even if Cryogonal is weak to rocks it can generally stay around for much longer thanks to Recover.

 

[cressida]

Sorry but how does Claydol exactly outclass Cryogonal at all? Cryogonal is a fast spinner with reliable recovery and some useful moves like Haze while it also has a good offensive presence unlike Claydol. Claydol however provides a few useful resistances like Fighting, Ground, Electric and Rock while being able to beat Doublade. However it lacks reliable recovery and still has a buttload of weaknesses which make me think Claydol is actually worse than Cryogonal.

claydol outclasses cryogonal by virtue of not being weak to stealth rock, something that's key for any situation-critical rapid spinner.

cress

 

[Pgirts]

I've been experimenting with Arbok a decent bit lately, and have been pleasantly surprised by this set:

Arbok @ Black Sludge
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Attk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Coil
- Gunk Shot
- Earthquake / Aqua Tail
- Sucker Punch

Arbok got a few minor buffs this gen, all of which add up to make him probably the best he's ever been. For starters, Poison has become a much more viable offensive option thanks to the introduction of the Fairy type. Secondly, Gunk Shot has had its accuracy bumped from 70% to 80%, so after just a single Coil, Arbok will never miss with it. Thirdly, Dark type attacks are now neutral to Steel, so Sucker Punch is even better than before.

The set functions as a bulky sweeper, and its pretty simple to use. Switch in on a physical attacker, Intimidate, and Coil up. Arbok's typing lets it switch in on a good number of Pokemon, and even after just a single Coil, Gunk Shot ravages those who don't resist it. Earthquake lets Arbok hit Rock, Steel, and other Poison type Pokemon super-effectively, and Sucker Punch picks off revenge killers as well as hitting Ghosts and Psychics for big damage.

The EVs let Arbok hit hard and make it easier for him to set up Coil. I've tried running a set with max Speed as opposed to HP, but even when it's maxed out, base 80 Speed is pretty underwhelming. Running more bulk is the way to go.

As for its ability, Shed Skin can work if you're worried about status stopping a sweep, but Intimidate more often than not is the better option due to it making setting up Coil much easier.

Arbok can handle a surprising amount of Pokemon with this set. The only Pokemon he has to consistently been on the lookout for are powerful special attackers. And even then, the frailer ones fall to a +1 Sucker Punch more often than not.

 

[Mew2]

Time to talk about Yanmega:

Nominating Yanmega to S rank:

A+ ----> S

Pros:

• Great base speed
• Two awesome abilities
• Key resistances to fighting and grass type moves as well as inmunity to ground
• Great special attack
• Huge movepool
• Requires little support to work
• Inmunity to spikes and sticky web
• Most of it's "counters" are destroyed by hazards
• Fucking awesome design

Cons

• x4 times weak to SR (So what? Defog and Rapid Spin exsist and a bunch a S tier Pokémon are weak to hazards like Charizard-X in OU, Delphox in RU and Hitmonlee gets fucked by SW)
• Weak to common attacking types (Yanmega isn't suppose to switch into a T-bolt or Flamethrower lol)
• Base 95 Speed means it can be revenge killed (With Speed Boost you can only revenge kill with priority)

Finally the best Yanmega set imo:

Yanmega @ Choice Specs
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Bug Buzz
- Air Slash
- U-turn
- Sleep talk / Shadow Ball

Screw Exploud this is THE wallbreaker of the tier with Choice Specs and Tinted Lens Yanmega can destroy anything that doesn't x4 resist Bug Buzz and unlike Exploud it can't be revenge killed easily thanks to a solid base speed stat and with hazards suppor (especially SR and Sw) Yanmega will perform a lot better. U-turn is there for momentum and the last moveslot depends on what your team needs: if a sleep absorber is needed Sleep talk is the better option and if you need to hit Doublade use Shadow Ball.
Some fun calcs:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rhyperior: 231-273 (53.2 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Not even a specially defensive Rhyperior can switch into this thing.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aromatisse: 174-204 (42.8 - 50.2%) --40.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Aromatisse needs to be at full health to wall Yanmega risking a posible Special Defense drop or crit.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 276-326 (70 - 82.7%) --guaranteed 2HKO

AV Slowking can't switch even with his massive Special Defense boosted by Assault Vest.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Druddigon: 172-204 (48 - 56.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

For all of this reasons I think that Yanmega deserves S rank

 

[MikeDawg]

Time to talk about Yanmega:

Nominating Yanmega to S rank:

A+ ----> S

Pros:

• Great base speed
• Two awesome abilities
• Key resistances to fighting and grass type moves as well as inmunity to ground
• Great special attack
• Huge movepool
• Requires little support to work
• Inmunity to spikes and sticky web
• Most of it's "counters" are destroyed by hazards
• Fucking awesome design

Cons

• x4 times weak to SR (So what? Defog and Rapid Spin exsist and a bunch a S tier Pokémon are weak to hazards like Charizard-X in OU, Delphox in RU and Hitmonlee gets fucked by SW)
• Weak to common attacking types (Yanmega isn't suppose to switch into a T-bolt or Flamethrower lol)
• Base 95 Speed means it can be revenge killed (With Speed Boost you can only revenge kill with priority)

Finally the best Yanmega set imo:

Yanmega @ Choice Specs
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Bug Buzz
- Air Slash
- U-turn
- Sleep talk / Shadow Ball

Screw Exploud this is THE wallbreaker of the tier with Choice Specs and Tinted Lens Yanmega can destroy anything that doesn't x4 resist Bug Buzz and unlike Exploud it can't be revenge killed easily thanks to a solid base speed stat and with hazards suppor (especially SR and Sw) Yanmega will perform a lot better. U-turn is there for momentum and the last moveslot depends on what your team needs: if a sleep absorber is needed Sleep talk is the better option and if you need to hit Doublade use Shadow Ball.
Some fun calcs:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rhyperior: 231-273 (53.2 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Not even a specially defensive Rhyperior can switch into this thing.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aromatisse: 174-204 (42.8 - 50.2%) --40.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Aromatisse needs to be at full health to wall Yanmega risking a posible Special Defense drop or crit.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 276-326 (70 - 82.7%) --guaranteed 2HKO

AV Slowking can't switch even with his massive Special Defense boosted by Assault Vest.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Druddigon: 172-204 (48 - 56.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

For all of this reasons I think that Yanmega deserves S rank

I'm mainly going to address the grossly understated cons

4x weak to rocks is a big deal. While there are ways to remove rocks, none of these are guarenteed, and they all give up a valuable turn, sometimes more. Rocks are also incredibly easy to get up given that it takes only a turn to do so. While that turn is also wasted, it is for offensive benefit and it applies even greater pressure. Using a turn to defog or spin is reactive and hands the pressure to the opponent.

Anyway, Char-X is a poor comparison because it will frequently be mega evolved already, and it will only take 25%. Delphox also takes only 25%. Yanmega (namely the specs varient) relies on being able to come in and out of battle. It can't do that with rocks up. This is contrary to char-x who's purpose is to effectively come in once and sweep or (non-choice) delphox who has more or less the same premise. Also sticky web disrupting Hitmonlee is a much different case than rocks and yanmega given the webs ruin practically everything grounded.

In regard to con 2, it doesn't matter if it isn't supposed to come in on common attacking types. Its poor bulk means that those common attacking types will likely 1hko, limiting its ability to switch in (compounding its limited switching caused by rocks)

Con 3. More than just being revenged, base 95 speed means that Yanmega is easily forced out, something that it isn't fond of given cons 1 and 2. This is augmented by how powerful and disruptive yanmega is when it does come in, though it will frequently be on a revenge.

I think that yanmega is at its best in this sticky web meta, but since that is about to end, it will lose its shared niche of being immune to webs.

 

[Mew2]

I'm mainly going to address the grossly misrepresented cons

4x weak to rocks is a big deal. While there are ways to remove rocks, none of these are guarenteed, and they all give up a valuable turn, sometimes more. Rocks are also incredibly easy to get up given that it takes only a turn to do so. While that turn is also wasted, it is for offensive benefit and it applies even greater pressure. Using a turn to defog or spin is reactive and hands the pressure to the opponent.

Anyway, Char-X is a poor comparison because it will frequently be mega evolved already, and it will only take 25%. Delphox also takes only 25%. Yanmega (namely the specs varient) relies on being able to come in and out of battle. It can't do that with rocks up. This is contrary to char-x who's purpose is to effectively come in once and sweep or (non-choice) delphox who has more or less the same premise.

Even if x4 weak to SR is a big deal for you, Yanmega is immune to Spikes, Toxic Spikes and SW and almost every offensive mon is crippled by SW such as Delphox, Hitmonlee and Jolteon. Sure SR are easy to set up and bla bla bla but in this stage of the meta where SW is everywhere being inmune to it is a huge plus.

 

[MikeDawg]

Even if x4 weak to SR is a big deal for you, Yanmega is inmune to Spikes, Toxic Spikes and SW and almost every offensive mon is crippled by SW such as Delphox, Hitmonlee and Jolteon. Sure SR are easy to set up and bla bla bla but in this stage of the meta where SW is everywhere being inmune to it is a huge plus.

The difference between stealth rocks and the two spikes is 1) distribution and 2) efficiency.

Rocks, in one turn, deal 50% to yanmega, 25% to delphox, and 12.5% to most other things. For spikes to reach that power (only against grounded pokes might I add) it would take 3 turns of setup, where the second is super inefficient. That is 3 sacrificed turns as opposed to 1, and they don't even affect everything.

Toxic spikes on the other hand are quick to set up (1 layer), but they affect even less than spikes and are easy to remove depending on the team (if there is a grounded poison type, they're practically useless for most of the match)

 

[Mew2]

The difference between stealth rocks and the two spikes is 1) distribution and 2) efficiency.

Rocks, in one turn, deal 50% to yanmega, 25% to delphox, and 12.5% to most other things. For spikes to reach that power (only against grounded pokes might I add) it would take 3 turns of setup, where the second is super inefficient. That is 3 sacrificed turns as opposed to 1, and they don't even affect everything.

Toxic spikes on the other hand are quick to set up (1 layer), but they affect even less than spikes and are easy to remove depending on the team (if there is a grounded poison type, they're practically useless for most of the match)

Ofc Rocks are better than Spikes and you NEED to have a spinner/ defogger to make Yanmega work but thats pretty much all the support it needs to rape teams. Delphox (Who is also S tier) also needs mandatory spin/ defog support otherwise Rocks and SW make it useless.

 

[Corporal Levi]

Delphox is arguably less reliant than Yanmega on Defog/spin support; Spikes and Toxic Spikes tend to be quite difficult to stack, so they're much more likely to be forgone than Stealth Rock, which nearly all teams pack. In addition, with Shuckle soon to leave the tier, I think we can expect a drop in Sticky Web use, so Delphox's significantly smaller weakness to Stealth Rock (half your health is a lot) and the lower usage of the other hazards means it is probably more able to get away without said support. You have to understand that a 4x Stealth Rock weakness is really, really bad, since it means Yanmega only needs to be checked twice to be taken out, and absolutely necessitates hazard removal support from the rest of the team. This alone is important in possibly holding it back from a possible S rank position:

S Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths.

Notice how these Pokemon should be able to perform their roles with "little support"; the support needed for Yanmega to function is all but mandatory, and with it, methods to deal with Spinblockers and Braviary have to be included as well. Yanmega requires no small amount of support to be utilized to its full potential.

A Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame, but require some support or have some flaws that prevents them from doing this consistently. Supporting Pokemon in this rank may give opponents free turns or cannot create free turns easily themselves, but can still do their job most of the time.

Yanmega is indeed a phenomenal sweeper with the given support, however, meaning it fits the description for A rank brilliantly. Its sheer sweeping abilities with support probably warrant it a spot in the higher end of A.

 

[Cowtao]

Rhyperior from S - A+

Right now, the metagame for Rhyperior is not kind to it. Many pokemon such as Delphox, Magneton, Jolteon, and ect. have taken the liberty to running HP Grass and Grass Knot more often. With other popular threats such as Slowking, Amoonguss, Sharpedo, and Virizion running around, Rhyperior needs more support then it is comfortable with. Also consider that some of these pokemon also can run multiple different sets to dispose of Rhyperior's teammates such as Sharpedo, Virizion, and Delphox. This thing isn't the unbreakable and unpredictable wall we saw in early RU and I feel it's justified for it to fall down a bit in ranking. It's still very good. The sets that Rhyperior runs still wall a good majority of the metagame. It's with the evolving meta game nowdays that don't treat Rhyperior too happily to justify it being S ranked.

 

[MikeDawg]

I can get behind that ^

It just can't wall as much as it would like to. Out of the entire S and A+ ranks, only escavalier can't handle rhyperior. These are some of the most common pokemon in the tier. I think that it fared relatively well in the sticky web meta because it didn't particularly care about the speed drop and it provided somewhat of a check to exploud, but once that ends, it goes back to being beaten by mons like sharpedo and virizion and hitmonlee and almost any special attacker. It can wall significant portions of the meta, but it is flawed in that simply cannot beat the most common of physical attackers.

Its lack of recovery is also unsettling, and while it can be run alongside wish support, the need for that imo deserves a definite boot to the A-ranks on account if it requiring non-negligible support

 

[Mew2]

Delphox is arguably less reliant than Yanmega on Defog/spin support; Spikes and Toxic Spikes tend to be quite difficult to stack, so they're much more likely to be forgone than Stealth Rock, which nearly all teams pack. In addition, with Shuckle soon to leave the tier, I think we can expect a drop in Sticky Web use, so Delphox's significantly smaller weakness to Stealth Rock (half your health is a lot) and the lower usage of the other hazards means it is probably more able to get away without said support. You have to understand that a 4x Stealth Rock weakness is really, really bad, since it means Yanmega only needs to be checked twice to be taken out, and absolutely necessitates hazard removal support from the rest of the team. This alone is important in possibly holding it back from a possible S rank position

If you are using defog/spin just because Yanmega you are doing it wrong especially in RU where hazards are in a lot of teams in fact I run defog/ spin support in every RU team I make. Also Yanmega actually 2HKOes every SR user that is in the S and A rankings (with the exceptions of Shuckle who is leaving RU anyways and specially defensive Drudi but that is rare anyways) and finally if you REALLY hate SR and can't use a rapid spin/ defog partner run Roost on Yanmega his HP and Defense stats are decent after all.

 

[MikeDawg]

If you are using defog/spin just because Yanmega you are doing it wrong especially in RU where hazards are in a lot of teams in fact I run defog/ spin support in every RU team I make. Also Yanmega actually 2HKOes every SR user that is in the S and A rankings (with the exceptions of Shuckle who is leaving RU anyways and specially defensive Drudi but that is rare anyways) and finally if you REALLY hate SR and can't use a rapid spin/ defog partner run Roost on Yanmega his HP and Defense stats are decent after all.

Rapid spin is unreliable in RU. Unless you are using foresight, the spinblockers in ru are for the most part better than the actual spinners in terms of matchup. Defog works, but it is also abusable (the fact that it clears your own hazards, wasting two of your turns, is also a pain).

And why does it matter if yanmega 2hkos stealth rock users? it's not like they are going to setup rocks in front of yanmega; there are 5 other mons that they likely have an easier time with.

And roost completely detracts from yanmega's capabilities in almost all cases. Specs is specs. Roost is obviously not optimal. For the speed boost set, not koing something and electing to roost instead will usually mean a dead yanmega.

 

[Mew2]

Rapid spin is unreliable in RU. Unless you are using foresight, the spinblockers in ru are for the most part better than the actual spinners in terms of matchup. Defog works, but it is also abusable (the fact that it clears your own hazards, wasting two of your turns, is also a pain).

And why does it matter if yanmega 2hkos stealth rock users? it's not like they are going to setup rocks in front of yanmega; there are 5 other mons that they likely have an easier time with.

And roost completely detracts from yanmega's capabilities in almost all cases. Specs is specs. Roost is obviously not optimal. For the speed boost set, not koing something and electing to roost instead will usually mean a dead yanmega.

Hitmonlee is an excelent spinner who can take down most spinblockers with super effective knock off (prediction is needed ofc) Kabutops is another spinner who doesn't suck. The fact that Yanmega 2hkos stealth rocks users means that Yanmega prevents them to get SR up or otherwise they risk being dented with a STAB Bug Buzz. Roost isn't meant to be used on a Specs set lol, but in a LO set Yanmega can take advantage of a switch and get a free roost.

 

[Cowtao]

Hitmonlee is an excelent spinner who can take down most spinblockers with super effective knock off (prediction is needed ofc) Kabutops is another spinner who doesn't suck. The fact that Yanmega 2hkos stealth rocks users means that Yanmega prevents them to get SR up or otherwise they risk being dented with a STAB Bug Buzz. Roost isn't meant to be used on a Specs set lol, but in a LO set Yanmega can take advantage of a switch and get a free roost.

Here's the thing, you have to get the users on the switch or be already attempting a Yanmega sweep if you want to 2HKO them. >>; Rhyperior, Registeel, and even Druddigon have moves that threaten Yanmega from attempting to 2HKO. Yanmega has been so much of a threat nowadays that 9/10, they won't even attempt to setup rocks and would rather have it dead then worried about it's partners. You'd want to preserve the bug over risk losing a sweeper/wallbreaker.

Also, the turns that Yanmega has a free-turn to Roost is very situational and niche at best. Most pokemon would either sack to die so they can bring in a check/counter or attempt to damage Yanmega before they go down. The point for the LO set is not for Survivability, it's to dent a vast majority of pokemon and attempt to sweep. If it can't do that then it at least will leave room for another Late-Game Sweeper to clean up. Besides, most of those "free" switches usually lead to pokemon that wall Yanmega such as Cofagrigus, Registeel, and Doublade.

 

[Mew2]

Here's the thing, you have to get the users on the switch or be already attempting a Yanmega sweep if you want to 2HKO them. >>; Rhyperior, Registeel, and even Druddigon have moves that threaten Yanmega from attempting to 2HKO. Yanmega has been so much of a threat nowadays that 9/10, they won't even attempt to setup rocks and would rather have it dead then worried about it's partners. You'd want to preserve the bug over risk losing a sweeper/wallbreaker.

Also, the turns that Yanmega has a free-turn to Roost is very situational and niche at best. Most pokemon would either sack to die so they can bring in a check/counter or attempt to damage Yanmega before they go down. The point for the LO set is not for Survivability, it's to dent a vast majority of pokemon and attempt to sweep. If it can't do that then it at least will leave room for another Late-Game Sweeper to clean up. Besides, most of those "free" switches usually lead to pokemon that wall Yanmega such as Cofagrigus, Registeel, and Doublade.

• Yanmega isn't a sweeper (unless WP endure lol) it is a wallbreaker or a cleaner
• Registeel is a B ranked pokemon, notice how I only said S and A Stealth rockers
• The fact that you mention that 9/10 they won't set up SR but instead try to kill Yanmega just shows how much influence it has in RU
• Cofagrigus can't wall Yanmega

Seriously can people stop posting "x4 weak to rocks is horrible it requires support to work bla bla bla" sure x4 weakness to rock sucks but a lot of pokemon are capable of working even with it, Ho-oh in Ubers (IK he has reggenerator and Roost but even before it got its ability is was a great pokemon ubers), Volcarona in UU (got bannded even with a x4 weakness to rocks and weakness to every hazard) and Yanmega in BW RU (also got banned and defog didn't even exist yet).

 

[Raheim]

Delphox is S class, that's interesting haha

 

[ForgottenOnes]

Proposing Alomomola for S rank. Very few Pokemon in this tier possess the raw potential which Alomomola possesses. Its physical bulk allows it to wall almost every physical threat in the tier, and even threats such as Hitmonlee cannot break through due to Alomomola's deadly combination of Wish + Protect + Regenerator. The aforementioned Hitmonlee also cannot charge in recklessly, as a well-timed Protect can greatly cripple the fighter. Speaking of Regenerator, this ability allows Alomomola to switch out much more easily and pass wishes to its teammates, which makes it much less predictable than if it had to stay in and use Protect to guarantee HP gain. This makes the fish that much more threatening. Its massive HP allows it to pass massive wishes, making it even better at its job. Meanwhile, this HP also allows it to take special hits, albeit not as well, but take them well enough so that it is not completely helpless against special attackers. Between Scald and Toxic, Alomomola can cripple a large portion of the tier, and its access to the aforementioned Wish + Protect + Regenerator combination allows it to spam Scald and fish for burns much more easily. The A ranking it currently has simply does not do it justice, as it walls far too large of a portion of the metagame to not be in S-Rank. And unlike other threats, Alomomola can recover after being caught off guard by a threat such as Dark Pulse Sharpedo due to its Regenerator ability, allowing it to continue its reign of terror for a larger period of time. Sure, it can be threatened by Pokemon such as SubCM Meloetta, but it simply walls way too large of a portion of the RU metagame to not be in S-Rank. It is almost a staple on stall teams, and can cripple a large number of threats attempting to switch in and take it on. All in all, Alomomola's raw bulk, great typing, fantastic ability, and amazing support capabilities truly make this behemoth of a fish one of the top Pokemon in the RU metagame; it definitely deserves to be in S-Rank.

I completely agree with this post. When I ladder for suspect test I see so much Alomomola (I played like 70 games cuz im bad). I must say Alomomola is one of the most annoying Pokemon to play against. With wish and protect not to mention and scalding my non-special attackers. Here are some calculations to prove Alomomola should be sent to S.

252+ Atk Life Orb Reckless Hitmonlee High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 286-337 (53.5 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (you would have to remember about Alomomola protecting with lefties, and regenerator alomomola and wish. Not to mention scald may burn)

252 Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 262-309 (49 - 57.8%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (not the chance, the chance would be smaller after a protect for lefties to take effect.)

+4 252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 279-328 (52.2 - 61.4%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (A +4 Doublade ONLY 2HKOs a Alomomola)

Onto Yanmega. Yanmega should go from A+ -> S.
Yanmega is a scary thing to play against. With speed boost, or Tinted Lens and Choice Scarf, Yanmega is hard to predict and a legitimate special attacker that goes through resistance.

 

[Ningildo]

I completely agree with this post. When I ladder for suspect test I see so much Alomomola (I played like 70 games cuz im bad). I must say Alomomola is one of the most annoying Pokemon to play against. With wish and protect not to mention and scalding my non-special attackers. Here are some calculations to prove Alomomola should be sent to S.

252+ Atk Life Orb Reckless Hitmonlee High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 286-337 (53.5 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (you would have to remember about Alomomola protecting with lefties, and regenerator alomomola and wish. Not to mention scald may burn)

252 Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 262-309 (49 - 57.8%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (not the chance, the chance would be smaller after a protect for lefties to take effect.)

+4 252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 279-328 (52.2 - 61.4%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (A +4 Doublade ONLY 2HKOs a Alomomola)

Onto Yanmega. Yanmega should go from A+ -> S.
Yanmega is a scary thing to play against. With speed boost, or Tinted Lens and Choice Scarf, Yanmega is hard to predict and a legitimate special attacker that goes through resistance.

Just going to point out that that isn't the spread Alomomola usually (and should) runs. iirc it moves some from HP to SpD to increase overall bulk at the cost of very little physical bulk. Furthermore, Lee is frickin everywhere (with and without SW) and can bypass Mola easily by just using Knock Off on the obvious Protect and HJK the next turn. Also can't take CB Drudd, PANGORO and other CB users THAT well, so implying it's the end all be all physical wall (and worthy of S) is an overstatement.

 

[Corporal Levi]

• Yanmega isn't a sweeper (unless WP endure lol) it is a wallbreaker or a cleaner
• Registeel is a B ranked pokemon, notice how I only said S and A Stealth rockers
• The fact that you mention that 9/10 they won't set up SR but instead try to kill Yanmega just shows how much influence it has in RU
• Cofagrigus can't wall Yanmega

Seriously can people stop posting "x4 weak to rocks is horrible it requires support to work bla bla bla" sure x4 weakness to rock sucks but a lot of pokemon are capable of working even with it, Ho-oh in Ubers (IK he has reggenerator and Roost but even before it got its ability is was a great pokemon ubers), Volcarona in UU (got bannded even with a x4 weakness to rocks and weakness to every hazard) and Yanmega in BW RU (also got banned and defog didn't even exist yet).

Keep in mind that A+ Pokemon are still acknowledged to be very, very good; Yanmega is absolutely able to function, it simply needs support to do so. Hazard removal is definitely support, because using Yanmega makes removing hazards that much more necessary; if less hazard reliant Pokemon were used, it would be easier to get away with not risking the Defog or Rapid Spin and utilize the turn to just try to kill something. Stealth Rock will continue being a large part of the argument against Yanmega being S because if Yanmega is doubly weak to Stealth Rock and needs to switch repeatedly due to it being walled by important Pokemon, then it requires hazard removal support, and if it needs hazard removal support, then regardless of how good it is with this support, it is not S rank.
As for your specific examples -
Ho-Oh isn't actually S rank in Ubers; it's been mid A for two generations.
You mentioned yourself that Yanmega isn't a sweeper (although I would argue that it could certainly act as one with a proper set); however, Volcarona is indisputably a sweeper. Unlike Yanmega, Volcarona has Quiver Dance and access to 120 base power STAB moves, both of which are really really important, because it means Volcarona is able to outspeed most offensive Pokemon AND muscle through walls at the same time, something Yanmega has much more trouble doing. Volcarona's role as a dedicated sweeper means it's actually less held back by hazards than Yanmega, because it doesn't need to switch as much.
Yanmega was indeed banned from gen 5 RU, but that was a drastically different metagame; not one of the S ranked mons in gen 5 has been able to maintain an S rank, and half of them aren't even A rank anymore. Notable additions to the tier that should definitely been accounted for are Doublade and
By the way, I don't think hazard removal is as easy as you're making it out to be -
252 Atk Life Orb Hitmonlee Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 122-146 (37.8 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Hitmonlee Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 122-146 (37.8 - 45.3%) -- 6.3% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes

I would also like to throw in my support for Rhyperior being moved to A+ for pretty much the reasons Mikedawg gave. Even though it walls significant portions of the metagame, some of the most important threats a physical wall would want to deal with are able to take advantage of its typing to hit it hard, such as Sharpedo and Hitmonlee. It's still a great Pokemon, but as Cowtao mentioned, the metagame has adapted to it, similarly to how the metagame adapted to Escavalier, with many Pokemon Rhyperior formerly checked almost always running an adequate coverage move to deal with Rhyperior; Rhyperior's flaws drastically affect its effectiveness, even with its substantial strengths. There are also Pokemon that can easily switch in on most of its sets and force it out, like Alomomola, so it can sometimes give out "free turns" to certain Pokemon.

 

[Mew2]

Keep in mind that A+ Pokemon are still acknowledged to be very, very good; Yanmega is absolutely able to function, it simply needs support to do so. Hazard removal is definitely support, because using Yanmega makes removing hazards that much more necessary; if less hazard reliant Pokemon were used, it would be easier to get away with not risking the Defog or Rapid Spin and utilize the turn to just try to kill something. Stealth Rock will continue being a large part of the argument against Yanmega being S because if Yanmega is doubly weak to Stealth Rock and needs to switch repeatedly due to it being walled by important Pokemon, then it requires hazard removal support, and if it needs hazard removal support, then regardless of how good it is with this support, it is not S rank.
Yanmega was indeed banned from gen 5 RU, but that was a drastically different metagame; not one of the S ranked mons in gen 5 has been able to maintain an S rank, and half of them aren't even A rank anymore. Notable additions to the tier that should definitely been accounted for are Doublade and
By the way, I don't think hazard removal is as easy as you're making it out to be -
252 Atk Life Orb Hitmonlee Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 122-146 (37.8 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Hitmonlee Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 122-146 (37.8 - 45.3%) -- 6.3% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes.

I don't get the point of your calcs doing over a third and taking away an Eviolite to a pokemon that doesn't have recovery is amazing, you can switch out and force Doublade again until you kill it and spin.
5th Gen RU was indeed different, but Yanmega's x4 weakness to SR was still there and defog support didn't even exist making it even harder to get rid of SR and heck, knock off wasn't even good so spinners were even worse. Finally Yanmega won't switch out as much as you think (3 times at most) because Yanmega can also act is a late game cleaner sure the wallbreaker set will switch multiple times but it isn't the only set Yanmega uses.

 

[Corporal Levi]

Hitmonlee will be switching into hazards every time on top of taking LO recoil with each Knock Off, leaving it to be worn down very quickly. In addition, it can switch into nearly nothing, meaning a Pokemon will often have to be sacrificed just for Hitmonlee to come in and Knock Off Doublade each time, so it can eventually spin, probably costing itself, all for Yanmega to come in at full health. Obviously this won't be the case for every match, but Hitmonlee only being able to do so little with Knock Off is definitely not in its favour.
Even though hazards are easier to remove now, the fact that gen 5 RU had significantly less checks to Yanmega is extremely important because it means that Yanmega was forced out less; by not being forced out as often, the entire basis of the most relevant argument against Yanmega, its weakness to Stealth Rock, was rendered much less effective. In gen 5, hazard removal support was more difficult, but more importantly, it was less necessary, so Yanmega was easily a S rank threat without the support, and therefore constituted for S rank because it simply didn't need as much support as it does now. Even among the new ways to remove hazards, Defog basically guarantees a death on your team if the opponent has a Braviary, and as shown with the calcs above, Hitmonlee's spinning capabilities usually aren't enough to get past Doublade.

Finally Yanmega won't switch out as much as you think (3 times at most) because Yanmega can also act is a late game cleaner sure the wallbreaker set will switch multiple times but it isn't the only set Yanmega uses.

If Yanmega switches out twice without hazard removal support, it dies