Resource RU Viability Ranking

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ok this thread is pretty dead, so i'm gonna make a nom that's kinda needed as i've noticed in the past day.

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togetic to b- or b, maybe even b+ cause its such a lord

Togetic Pass is easily one of the best and easiest to use playstyles in the current meta. It's an amazing pivot, having low speed to get a +2 pass into a sweeper such as Yanmega, Sharpedo, or Delphox without the sweeper having to take damage. Despite its rock weakness, it has amazing bulk with physical defense investment, letting it set up on mons such as Hitmonlee, Zoroark, Aromatisse, Yanmega (although idt it can avoid the 2hko after rocks), Druddigon without Gunk Shot, Virizion, Gligar, whatever. A team of Omastar + Togetic + 4 special sweepers is extremely effective in the current meta, and it has the bulk to serve as a really great pivot / support mon.
 
Bouffalant said:
ok this thread is pretty dead, so i'm gonna make a nom that's kinda needed as i've noticed in the past day.

176_s.gif

togetic to b- or b, maybe even b+ cause its such a lord

Togetic Pass is easily one of the best and easiest to use playstyles in the current meta. It's an amazing pivot, having low speed to get a +2 pass into a sweeper such as Yanmega, Sharpedo, or Delphox without the sweeper having to take damage. Despite its rock weakness, it has amazing bulk with physical defense investment, letting it set up on mons such as Hitmonlee, Zoroark, Aromatisse, Yanmega (although idt it can avoid the 2hko after rocks), Druddigon without Gunk Shot, Virizion, Gligar, whatever. A team of Omastar + Togetic + 4 special sweepers is extremely effective in the current meta, and it has the bulk to serve as a really great pivot / support mon.
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I personally support moving Togetic up a bit. B- sounds fine as a start but i wouldn't be opposed to B if push comes to shove (B+ is a definite no from me at the moment though). There's no denying that Togetic has a solid place in the current metagame to be honest. 55/85/105 is already pretty solid to begin with, but with Eviolite tacked on and a solid defensive typing in Fairy/Flying. you'll find that Togetic is actually pretty resilient all around (its special bulk is only slightly lower than Gligar's physical bulk, and anyone who's played RU knows just how bulky Gligar is), and can take all manner of hits while simply recovering off all the damage with Roost. As Bouffalant already mentioned, Nastypass has proven itself to be pretty potent in the current metagame because of Togetic's ability to set up easily and the fact that its low speed usually ensures its recipients will get in safely (note: even if it doesn't get the nastypass off, Togetic is a very very solid drypasser, that typing lets Togetic force a bunch of switches so the opponent can take it out at all, and Togetic can simply Baton Pass on these switches to get its teammates in for free), but that's not the only thing Togetic can do: it can also support its team with its access to both Defog and Heal Bell, making it a pretty solid choice on balanced/stall teams that require this kind of support. It recieves competition from Aromatisse in this role, but Defog alone is more than enough to justify its use here imo. Lastly and possibly most importantly, Togetic happens to be a check/counter to BOTH of the current suspects. Its so specially bulky that it can take multiple Air Slashes from Yanmega even with Stealth Rock factored in (not to mention it 4x resists Bug Buzz, which means it still resists it with Tinted Lens factored in), and its not as good but still decent physical bulk, resistance to Dark-type moves, and neutrality at worst to all of Zoroark's coverage moves ensures that it can easily put a stop to the illusion fox as well, although it loses its Eviolite in the process.

TL;DR: Togetic is a cool baton passer and general pivot, as well as an underrated defensive mon that can pull its weight on more stally teams for sure, its bulk and typing lets it check and counter quite a few common Pokemon including both of the currently suspects, and thats definitely enough for a promotion imo.
 
Okay, I want to make one small nom real quick.

ambipom.gif
-> C-/D

This thing is really awful lol. I know it has STAB Technician Fake Out but that is like the easiest thing to take advantage of in the whole tier. Yes, I know, it looks appealing to have a reasonably strong STAB Fake Out that always flinches and has priority; FREE DAMAGE WOOHOO right? But no, it's actually a completely free switch in to some truly dangerous stuff like Doublade, Escavalier, and Rhyperior. Ambipom is complete and utter trash that lets a bunch of really dangerous stuff in for pretty much free, and does laughable damage to anything that comes in on it for pretty much free. Even worse is how frail it is. Aside from being easily taken advantage of by some of the most common Pokemon in the tier, it brings no synergy to the team and there are ton of easy ways to destroy it because it's easy to deal with and easy to OHKO. It has nothing over any Normal-type available, Cinccino is much better cause it breaks Subs and Sashes and circumvents things like Rhyperior, Moltres, and Yanmega, while Tauros, Exploud, and Zangoose all have nice wallbreaking power. This thing has pretty much nothing that should draw you to it. In fact, I think it should be E Rank along with Claydol and Hitmonchan, since I think it's even worse than at least passable mons, like Jynx, Klinklang, and Lilligant, but one step at a time.

(PS: Togetic is pretty cool imo, it's pretty bulky and has a nice defensive typing and has some cool supportive traits, the previous posts elaborated on it well, this thing is good and deserves B- imo, it can make the master of paraflinching proud).
 
I feel like we should wait on Togetic. Togetic's viability has increased because of the recent suspect test to both Zoroark and Yanmega, both of which are dead walled by it. I feel like when they are banned (come on, they will) Togetic would be a bit less viable.
 
Once again supporting Doublade up to S rank. All of the arguments have already been hashed out so no need to restate them.

Rhyperior is a really really good mon and can be put on pretty much any team. It checks a huge part of the tier and can reliably set up rocks. S rank might be a bit high for it, but idk if it should move down to A+. Because of the constant rock support and its massive attack stat, plus tanking moves I think it could stay in S. Arguments I feel like are a little shaky on why it should move down.

Heliolisk should stay in B imo. While Jolteon is mostly better Heliolisk has a bunch of niches that make it stand out. It reliably checks Doublade and can switch in on lots of water types and gets HP back. Grass knot is definetly a better move than HP water as said above. I think it should stay.

I agree with Arikado that we should wait on Togetic. It will still be awesome as a passer out to special Sharpedo, but it will most likely drop in popularity after the suspect test.

Supporting Ambipom dropping. I've played matches where I haven't even attacked this thing and just switched Mola in on it. I had rocks up and in combination with Fake Out LO recoil and U-turn LO recoil it just killed itself lol. (Also I feel like having LO on a Uturn set isnt that great).

I dont think Dugtrio is A rank material. Right now it's incredibly good as a partner of Yanmega because it can take out its biggest counter in Registeel. But after the suspect test it isnt strong enough to OHKO a lot of things and needs to wait for them to be weakened. If people want to look at it again after Yanmega is gone we can see how good it is after the meta has settled.

I agree with moving Weezing up. Every time I have faced it, it has succesffully gotten t-spikes up and been a pain in the ass to deal with.
 
imo B-rank is just messed up in general.

Heliolisk down to C+: Is there honestly any reason to use this thing anymore? Would I ever consider using this over jolteon, who has higher speed and Sp.atk, slightly better bulk, and is just overall a better mon? Yes, heliolisk has better coverage, but I find myself constantly disappointed by it's speed tier which leaves it prone to trapping ala dugtrio, and outsped by a bunch of offensive threats. Now some of you might say that the lack of bulk doesn't really matter, but it makes the difference between getting OHKO'd by something like zoroark's sucker punch as opposed to jolteon who never dies to naive/jolly roark's sucker. Weak to the most common priority in the tier like hitmonlee's mach punch, Naughty Shiftry's Sucker punch, heck it even almost gets 2HKOd by doublade's iron head, showcasing how fantastically frail it is, especially in comparison to joltemon

Cinccino up to B: I just started using cinccino a couple of days ago and it does not disappoint. This thing is fantastic versus offense, bulky offense, and balance because of it's blinding 115 speed/ ability to break subs n sashes. Offense's usual only switchins to cincc can just easily be u-turned out on into a favorable position. This thing OHKOS/2HKOs a lot of the offensive threats atm with it's respectable coverage, including but not limited to:

Cincinno's OHKO/2HKO body bag list: Virizion, Zoroark, Mowtom, Yanmega, Shiftry, Sigilyph, Kabutops, Amoonguss, Braviary, Sdef Adamant Perior, Delphox and a bunch more, and if you factor in rocks then the list increases dramatically.

Clawitzer up to B+: Clawitzer is a menace. Being able to 2HKO the entire relevant tier is no small feat, but this SMALL mon manages to deFEAT (hue) bulky offense all the way down through stall with little to no trouble all on it's own. Base 120 Sp.atk combined with mega launcher and a ton of mega launcher-boosted coverage makes this thing very hard to switch into. Heck this thing even puts in work v offense by just obliterating any mon it can take a hit from bar like virizion because of the relative frailty of these mons.

A-rank changes

Amoonguss up to A: Amoonguss is a fantastic mon this meta, with access to a fantastic grass/poison typing which gives it a plethor a of resistances, a great ability in regenerator allowing it to continually wall things throughout the match, Spore to support bulky offense, and it's just overall a fantastic check to half the metagame and a great pivot who actually has the power to take down/ wall or stall out a couple of select big threats like Doublade, virizion, Mowtom, bulky waters, and more. A fantatstic mix of support and offense gives this thing a spot in A imo

Drapion up to A definitely: Drapion is fantastic on many different types of teams, both stall and offensive alike due to a combo of traits that fit both very well. Drapion's unique typing gives it a ton of cool resistances and immunities, and it can switch in on things like amoonguss after sleep clause and just straight up knock it off or set up on it. Drapion also has a very dangerous SD set that can tear through bulky offense down to stall, because of its base 95 speed, respectable attack stat, and access to pretty good type coverage between Knock Off and Poison jab along with the support aspect knock off inherently brings along, taking off defensive items from walls and offensive items from slower offensive mons.
 
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I agree with Clawitzer going to B+. This thing is a fucking threat, and whenever I face it I'm usually in a "fuck." situation where it is too damn threatening. Nothing is a safe switch in, and its ability to 2HKO the entire tier is damn good since it has amazing coverage with Scald, Aura Sphere, Ice Beam, and Dark Pulse, and even has access to U-turn to pivot out. The only way of dealing with it is smart switching or playing around its coverage moves, otherwise it's going to steamroll whatever switches in. It's still got a terrible speed however, and that's why it'll be B+ and not any higher. Overall, it's an incredibly strong Pokemon that pressures stall all the way up to balance and bulky offense with its power, but is sadly a bit too slow. Solid B+ imo.
 
Doublade: Last time Montsegur nominated this to S rank it was rejected. 2 weeks have passed and it gets nominated again and I really don't see the point. It has exactly the same flaws, exactly the same sets and exactly the same role the only difference is that people are using Sandslash to defeat Doublade lowering his viability as a spinblocker. Also more people are using Shadow Ball on SB Yanmega to deal with Doublade and Zoro is also getting more popular thanks to his suspect test. I think Doublade should stay in A+ rank for now but I might agree to move him up to S rank when Zoro and Yanmega get banned.

Ambipom: Let me start by saying I think this piece go shit should drop to NU and you 90% of the time it's better to have something like Cinccino. But dropping it to the same level as some crap like Hitmonchan is wrong. It has a base speed of 115 outspending Zoroark, Moltres and even Cobalion and Virizion. It also has a bit more bulk than Cinccino and 5 more points in attack and access to strong Fake Out can be a nightmare to offensive teams but most importantly you don't have to use fake out every turn. Any good player will predict you to switch into your Rhyperior and smack you with a Low Kick or a Seed Bomb. It can also revenge kill Cobalion with Low kick, something that Cinccino will never do. I wouldn't mind seeing stupid monkey in D rank but I think it can stay in C- rank for now.

Clawitzer: Fantastic pokemon in TR teams and in balanced ones since it can easily break through common walls like Alomomola and Aromatisse and can keep momentum with U-turn. I usually use Specially defensive Golbat to counter it but I'm always risking that 30% chance of confusion or 30% of burn. Definitely move this thing to B+ rank.

Kabutops: He is too frail and has a shitty typing and only decent speed for sweeper, even with Knock Off he will rarely kill common spin blockers like Doublade and M-banette so imo this thing should go down to B- rank.

Golbat: It checks any kind of Yanmega, can Defog and can screw pokes like Sub BU Braviary and SuB Roost Moltres, pokes that are a nightmare for stall. It also has a nice base 90 speed and a 120 STAB move. It also counters Hitmonlee and Cobalion /Virizion lacking Stone Edge. I think this guy should easily be B rank.

Combusken: I have been using Combusken a lot and I guarantee you this thing deserves more than B-. Access to 3 good boosting moves, Speed Boost and Batton pass makes chicken the most reliable batton passer in the tier and with Max HP and Max SpD he can set up in a plethora of pokemon such as Alomomola, Zoroark, Gligar and even SpecsMega locked into Bug Buzz and he can also batton pass multiple times during a match. Unfortunately he is slow as balls even after several boosts and weakness to Psychic and Ground isn't good in this tier but still it should go up to B rank.

Sandslash: Being the only Spinner to defeat Doublade 1 on 1 should guarantee this guy at least B- rank. It can also set up SD and has great coverage with E-Que and Knock Off and my favorite set by far is the one of Professional2341 and imo it guarantees at least B- rank.
 
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Ok opinions (watch out long post):

Supporting Ambipom dropping to D. This thing is so ridiculously easy to take care of it isn't even funny. Any decently built team automatically has at least one proper response to it, if you are running stall make that like 3 proper answers, so basically most of the time Ambipom won't do too much in a battle. Add to that the fact that it is prone to killing itself, has a mediocre typing, barely any bulk and faces stiff competition from several other Pokemon and you get a bad, bad mon.

Weezing should move up to B+. Having Tspikes and Will-o gives it a lot of utility on stall teams, and the meta rn has a lot of mons that are comfortably checked by it, including Doublade, Cobalion, Hitmonlee, Rhyperior and quite a few more, all of which struggle to break through it and are heavily crippled by a burn. Because the meta is so good for it it definitely deserves a little more love.

Rhyperior can go down to A+. Earlier on I disagreed with this, but honestly, Rhyp's flaws are rather exploitable and it doesn't offer enough to be considered an absolute top-of-the-bill threat. It's still one of the most reliable SR setters, but its 4x weaknesses to Grass and Water are very exploitable and it gets worn down over time if you put too much pressure on it. Being a free switchin for Alomomola isn't helping either.

Let's wait with Togetic until after current suspect test to give it a good ranking, we must see if NastyPass stays viable when Yan is out of the meta, otherwise it's solid where it is.

Gorebyss to B rank. Dedicated SmashPass is where it shines, except dedicated SmashPass isn't all that in the current meta, the amount of powerful priority users makes it too risky to use it, whereas just slapping Gorebyss on any team doesn't instantly make it better either, unlike Combusken in NU. On that note, supporting a possible rise for Combusken, thing's pretty baller, faced it a few times and it can really pull its weight due to its bulk.

Saw a mention of Dugtrio rising somewhere but let's wait with that, same reason as with Togetic. In fact it might need a drop after Yanmega is gone.

Doublade should go up to S, I first wanted to say that it should stay where it is but when I tried to come up with arguments I, to my own surprise, was left without any. Whiel it has trouble sweeping actually prepared teams, it is such an amazing staplemon for pretty much any playstyle that one could file it under the "too good to pass up"-category. Even when it isn't sweeping it will cockblock pretty much any physical sweeper for half the game and while yes, its special bulk is poor, it has no recovery and it's slow, it doesn't even really care too much tbh, for it takes non-supereffective physical hits so damn well that it is not worn down as easily as you'd assume, whereas obviously you want it to stay away from special attackers (which shouldn't be a standalone argument against a mon). Shadow Sneak is not amazingly strong but definitely suffices versus frailer offensive teams, whereas it still outspeeds a good portion of the tier's walls/tanks with some investment. Honestly, something that can literally wall so many threats in the tier up to the point where the switches your opponent is going to make are ridiculously obvious and easy to predict, while you can even opt to go for sweeps with it, is incredibly meta-defining and definitely worth S-rank.

On that note, Sandslash deserves to be somewhere in B rank for being the most reliable spinner in the tier rn, giving it more of a niche than it'd ever hope to have last gen.

Clawitze can go to B+ imo, mch like Exploud this thing is extremely hard to switch into due to powerful moves and excellent coverage, becomes even scarier with webs support.

Drop Heliolisk, it's basically just a worse Jolteon with Surf and the ability to somewhat reliably check Doublade as well as discouraging Scald spam to some extent, but generally the C-rankings fit it a lot better because Jolteon simply eclipses it in most ways.


THING I WANT TO BRING UP MYSELF:

Roselia up to B+. This thing finds its niche on stall, where its access to both forms of Spikes as well as Aromatherapy makes it a really cool mon. The reason for why it's so great right now is that it pairs almost perfectly with Alomomola, stall's greatest staple. Being able to switch in on the special attackers that threaten Alomomola is really great, but not only can she do that, but she can immediately put her utility moves to great use, unlike something like Amoonguss. Honestly, this is one of stall's most essential mons imo and definitely should move up to B at least, if not B+.
 
If Hitmontop is B- then Sandslash deserves much more, as it has a lot of bulk and power, it's easily one of the best dedicated spinners in the tier, Hitmonlee is better as pokemon in RU but Sandslash is a better spinner.

Futhermore Sandlsash can run either Rocks to support it's team, or just SD to not be complete dead weight w/ Stall. Not only that but Sandslash's ability to set up rocks is also amazing, since it pretty much OHKO-s Hitmonlee after LO recoil (needs rocks if you don't have a lot of investment) possibly the only reliable spinner w/ Sandslash in RU.

As a Spinner, it can also punish all Rockers pretty effectively, 2-3HKO-ing Levitate Bronzong and Claydol (lol) depending on investment, while 3HKO-ing most Rhyperiors (especially now since you are sacrificing bulk for speed to creep Doublade), as for Spinblockers, it 2HKO-s the best spinblocker in the game, Doublade, and pretty much shits on everything else such as Jellicent and Spiritomb w/ SD (or even w/o if little residual damage)

Being one of the most reliable spinners and possibly the best dedicated spinner in the tier, while also support the team w/ Knock off and Rapid Spin, Sandslash at least deserves B or even B+

If I want to bring anything up is that:

Hitmontop should drop to at least C+: tbh it's completely outclassed by both Sandslash and Hitmonlee, it does outclass Hitmonchan and Claydol, but those two pokemons are completely ass. Furthermore, anything done offensively is completely ouclassed by Gallade, Hitmonlee, and even Hariyama to an extent. IIRC it can't even 3HKO Doublade, while it's a completely dead weight against stall unless you are running Toxic. In addition to that, it's also completely unreliable vs. HO, as pretty much everything from A rank to S rank completely destroys it(except Sharpedo, Virizion, Dugtrio, & Cobalion to an extent, and Escalivier).

Agreeing with:

Everything GlassGlaceon and Mew2 said.
 
Owen Xekrain said:
Typhlosion for B+

Why: Typhlosion-Specs-Eruption is a combo that can sweep a large part of the metagame
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Hi and welcome to Smogon. Typhlosion is not B+ rank worthy, nor is it even worthy of being ranked in this thread.

While Choice Specs Typhlosion is an extremely powerful Pokemon at full health, it is almost entirely outclassed by Delphox. Delphox has Dual STAB (with access to STAB Psyshock), 4 more Base Speed, and access to the move Trick, which makes it a much better wall breaker and choice user than Typhlosion. If Typhlosion has switched into Stealth Rock 1 time, Eruption is actually weaker than Delphox's Fire Blast. Delphox also has access to Grass Knot (which is better than HP Grass) which lets it fare slightly better against Pokemon like Rhyperior (can actually OHKO) and Slowking (can 2HKO), while still hitting Alomomola for the same damage output. Aside from these advantages while using Choice items, Delphox is also a threatening set up sweeper which can play mind games with defensive teams, because it could threaten to Calm Mind on the switch.

Typhlosion is p much entirely outclassed.

252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (112 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mew: 175-207 (43.3 - 51.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mew: 234-276 (57.9 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Delphox Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mew: 178-210 (44 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

As a side note, if you are going to propose a change to the viability rankings, it is important to come up with more well thought out argument. Just saying Pokemon A should be X rank because it does Q isn't an argument, we all know what Typhlosion is supposed to do, it was left of the list (E rank) on purpose.
 
So many things. If I miss something it's because I overlook it or lack experience with it:

Togetic: I feel this needs to wait until after suspect test is done. Right now, I feel that NastyPass is so strong because of Yanmega, but this may not end up being true. Leave it for now, but if NastyPass is still good after suspect test, then I don't have a problem with this move.

Ambipom: Yeah, drop to D/C-. Everyone else has said my thoughts exactly.

Rhyperior: This is either a low S rank mon or top A+ rank mon. I feel Rhyperior is kind of in a "gray area" so to speak in that it's prone to being beaten by quite a few common threats, but at the same time, also being rather easy to fit onto teams. However, what makes Rhyperior S rank imo is the ability to also run a Choice Band set. You may look at me funny, but that set wrecks stuff. You have to predict a little bit, but this is the case with any Choiced wallbreaker. Rhyperior still has the bulk to tank hits with this set, but suddenly becomes a major nuke that few things can switch into. Offensive checks such as Virizion and Clawitzer are suddenly smashed with a much stronger EQ than they're expecting, getting 2HKOed and OHKOed respectively. The tank set is still pretty solid, and Roar keeps things from switching into it too easily. I think Rhyperior has just enough going for it to stay in S rank.

Clawitzer: I have a TON of experience with this thing, and it is an absolute beast. Clawitzer quite literally 2HKOes the entire tier with full coverage and a Life Orb. It 2HKOes AV Slowking and AV Druddigon with coverage moves.... WITH COVERAGE MOVES. Yeah, that's how strong Clawitzer is. It's a nightmare for defensive teams to face and offensive teams typically have to sac a mon if it manages to come in safely. B+ is solid for Clawitzer and if it had a little bit more Speed, it would easily be A- material imo. But alas, it doesn't, so B+ is good.

Sandslash: This is something I've been playing around with a bit lately, and it has surprised me with how effective it is. Sandslash is, bar none, the best dedicated spinner in RU rn for one reason, and one reason only; it's ability to beat Doublade with ease. Knock Off + EQ is a clean 2HKO with heavy Attack investment (which you should use most times anyway) and it has a pretty decent Attack stat in general to throw around Knock Offs with. Good STAB, good spammable move, spin, and Rocks. It's a solid Pokemon and one that you should definitely consider using if you have SR-weak mons like Moltres and Delphox. I'd like to see it in B/B- rank for now.

Hitmontop: I honestly feel it's fine in B-. Sure, it's not anything amazing by any means, but it's about the only spinner you can successfully use on stall teams and those teams generally prefer Rapid Spin since they rely on hazards to deal passive damage, thus making Defog a counterproductive option in most cases. It fills a given defensive niche as a spinner on stall teams (and about the only decent one at that) and can at least check some top physical threats like Cobalion, Virizion, and Sharpedo. Not amazing, but has a definitive niche, which makes it B- imo.
 
Alllllllrite, had about enough of this Heliolisk hate.

How people think Jolteon can be A- and Heliolisk C- is beyond me. If we look at raw stats there's literally no difference aside form Speed, and the minor difference in defense is hardly relevant, both are OHKO'd by Zoro sucker after Rocks, and you shouldn't stay in vs Zoro with either anyway, though advantage goes to Jolteon. As for the Speed, the only relevant pokemon Jolteon outspeeds that Heliolisk doesn't are Cincinno and Dugtrio, which obviously is useful, but Heliolisk still outspeeds the vast majority of the meta, and makes up for this in other ways.

As I said earlier, having Grass Knot is incredibly good, allowing it to break Ground types that try to block Volt Switch such as Rhyp, Gastro and Toad, and it also frees up your Hidden Power, allowing you to run Ice/Fire to ensure you aren't shut down by Grass types. Also has access to Focus Blast and Surf if you want it to take out specific threats such as Delphox and Abomasnow.

Finally the abilities, Jolteon has Volt Absorb, which is useful for blocking Volt Switch, however it loses to just about every other Electric type in the tier anyway, Rotom-C, Eel, Lanturn, Magneton (only if Eviolite/Specs) all threaten it with their other moves, it's probably only Heliolisk that Jolteon can beat 1v1. Heliolisk on the other hand has Dry Skin which makes it immune to Water attacks, which is obviously very useful since it can threaten Water types greatly with its STABs, and is generally useful to stop things like Slowking from just Recklessly spamming Scald.

So in summary:

Stats - Advantage Jolteon in every department, though Speed is the only one of real relevance.

Movepool - Major advantage Heliolisk.

Abilities - Team dependent, but in general I'd say Dry Skin is more useful.

Normal typing - Allows it to become a great Doublade + Mismag Check, although leaves it threatened by Lee and Gurdurr's Mach Punch.

So where people gained the notion of Heliolisk being 'completely outclassed' by Jolteon is beyond me, Heliolisk can find itself being just as, if not more effective than Jolteon in a myriad of match ups and scenarios, so it should definitely stay at least B.
 
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Mismagius needs to drop to B/B+.
While being the best special Ghost-type in the tier Mismagius faces a lot of competition from Doublade, Banette, and Spiritomb as a spinblocker for offensive teams and also has Gen 5 Drapion syndrome (modest attacking stats and weak moves) and can't even OHKO some Cress at +2 with Life Orb lol

Sandslash should go to B- at least because checking Rhyperior+reliably spinning against most teams is very valuable for a lot of Balance+BO teams that can't afford to use Defog.

I also agree with EonX, we should also wait on Togetic because seriously if it is good now it is because Nasty Pass + Check ZoroMega
 
Agreeing with Mismagius dropping, it's a decent mon but nowhere near A material due to being much less effefctive as a spinblocker than Doublade and Spritiomb and being devastatingly frail in general, making it hard for it to set up.
 
Also agreeing with Mismagius dropping, frail and needs a nasty plot up to do any real work. Also just something to point out with nasty pass Togetic, Yanmega is the premier choice right now for it, but once its gone I think that special Sharpedo (which I've seen once or twice) is gonna be really good. I still think we should wait but I still think nasty pass is gonna be good.
 
Yeah, I've used Nasty Pass teams without Yanmega (which everyone believes is the main culprit of NastyPass being so good, which is only somewhat true), there's a lot of other stuff that really enjoys having a +2, particularly stuff that doesn't get to set up / has very few opportunities to, i.e. Sharpedo, Delphox, Rotom-C, Whimsicott (this is actually really underrated and should move up but i'll get to that later), Magneton, really almost any special attacker in the tier that isn't immensely frail / slow appreciates a +2 boost, so I don't really think Yanmega should be stopping Togetic from moving up to B-.

Edit: and as i mentioned before, there's a lot more stuff that Togetic is setting up besides the current suspects, particularly Alomomola, Slowking without Ice Beam, Hitmonlee, Spiritomb, Aromatisse, Cresselia, Dugtrio, and a shit load of more stuff (keep in mind, this is with a physically defensive set). I've also found it pretty hilarious when I bait in an Esca / Doublade and smack them with a +2 Flamethrower (im p sure av esca lives but Toge lives an Iron Head with p def investment anyway).
 
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Arikado said:
I don't think anyone really used Altaria seriously to begin with.. If you think it's viable enough to be ranked then go ahead and tell us why you think that!
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checks both versions of yanmega but that won't be a niche after the ban, does show her special wall capabilities
 
Argee on Mismagius dropping to B. Low HP makes a successful switch in plus being able to setup really hard on it and as a spinblocker there are just better options for offensive teams.
 
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