You're really gonna want to be running timid even with a scarf. There's also the matter of being choice locked into a psychic or ghost type move. The former is asking for a pursuit trapper to come in, and the latter is a free swap in for every normal type. I never said it cannot do work in UU, I'm just saying that scarf is going to have a rough time with all the free swap ins it's going to hand out.
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Pokémon Hoopa
- Thread starter Delibird is Amazing
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You're really gonna want to be running timid even with a scarf. There's also the matter of being choice locked into a psychic or ghost type move. The former is asking for a pursuit trapper to come in, and the latter is a free swap in for every normal type. I never said it cannot do work in UU, I'm just saying that scarf is going to have a rough time with all the free swap ins it's going to hand out.
Hoopa @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magician
EVs: 32 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Destiny Bond
- Shadow Ball
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
Hoopa has a bad typing but it's strong, then you realize its moves are weak and it's not that good. It'll be like Diancie: bad and waiting to drop. This is the only set I would consider as TrickScarf is useless on it, it needs the Speed to be useful at all (Specs is simply outclassed.) You can run max Speed but this beats Noivern, I guess you could go to 244 (or something like that) for +1 Adamant Dragonite because it can't ESpeed you. Destiny Bond is the only sort of useful move it has as a Scarfer since it can kill something before it dies instead of being a bad revenge killer
Ability: Magician
EVs: 32 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Destiny Bond
- Shadow Ball
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
Hoopa has a bad typing but it's strong, then you realize its moves are weak and it's not that good. It'll be like Diancie: bad and waiting to drop. This is the only set I would consider as TrickScarf is useless on it, it needs the Speed to be useful at all (Specs is simply outclassed.) You can run max Speed but this beats Noivern, I guess you could go to 244 (or something like that) for +1 Adamant Dragonite because it can't ESpeed you. Destiny Bond is the only sort of useful move it has as a Scarfer since it can kill something before it dies instead of being a bad revenge killer
My point was that Blissey is not going to hold Hoopa back from doing much. I agree that the scarf set won't be very good. I like the idea of Sub Sitrus Berry as it has a fair amount of bulk and has the offensive might to force switches. Also if nothing else it can dick something over by stealing its item. Hoopa seems like a much more frail Aegislash, but one which is faster and has a slightly better special movepool.
Seems like crap in OU but it's hard to ignore that 150 base SA.
Hoopa seems outclassed by Chandelure which has almost as much special attack, more speed, better STABs, and more useful abilities. Hoopa has STAB Psyshock, but it needs a Life Orb / Choice Specs to get past Chansey which really limits Hoopa's ability to perform against offensive teams. If only GF didn't dump so much of that 600 BST into its worthless attack stat...
0- Atk Amoonguss Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hoopa: 344-408 (114.2 - 135.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Yes, this is an unSTABed Foul Play with Hoopa minimizing its attack.
Jesus christ.
Hoopa's not safe from anything.
It doesn't really need anything but sub to get past chansey, so it's pretty much setup bait.
Despite the awful typing it'll probably be decent in UU, ghost and psychic are nice STABs and it hits like a truck. The ghost typing lets it bypass the tier's premier special wall while the psychic lets it donk the others with psyshock. Maybe Umbreon will rise again, but chandy struggles with that too, so it wont be entirely outclassed.
Also a lot of stuff is killed by STAB foul play, but Hoopa is certainly something else with its 4x weakness...
Seeing as how this thing might have the potential to Trick Choice items onto opponents and steal items with the combination of Magician and a random consumable item, I wouldn't be very eager to switch my Chansey into this thing even if I didn't have to worry about switching into a Life Orb / Choice Specs Psyshock.
Unless the type gems get released, I can't think of any way you could surprise your opponent with Magician. Chandelure can also Trick Choice items, so Hoopa doesn't even have that niche.
Chandelure is also UU which means Hoopa could have a rough time there too. Hoopa can only 2HKO Umbreon with Focus Blast and needs a boosting item to do that (of course getting the 2H part is pretty difficult with Focus Blast). Umbreon can absolutely murder Hoopa with Foul Play in return. At least Chandelure can burn Umbreon with Wisp and take little damage from Foul Play. I have a hard team even seeing a niche for Hoopa in UU.
Chandelure barely ever uses Will-o-wisp in UU, so it really struggles just as much with Umbreon. It's not as stomped by foul play, but Chandy only has a chance to 2hko with specs fire blast, at least Hoopa nails it on the switch with focus blast +any boosting item. I mean Chandelure will probably be better overall, but Hoopa will have enough of a niche with its different STABs and access to strong Fighting coverage to do well in UU.
So basically another Useless tier Pokemon like Thundurus-T? :'(
Thundurus-T has a niche on Rain teams since it gives an Electric immunity without being Grass weak and can pull off a Double Dance set better than Thundurus-I.
I still maintain that Sub + 3 Attacks will be Hoopa's best set, if not one of the only usable ones in OU. Substitute gives it a psuedo-protection against Pursuit users and it has Focus Blast to make quick work of Dark types.
Hoopa @ Leftovers/Life Orb/Sitrus Berry/No item
Ability: Magician
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Timid/Modest Nature
- Substitute
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
It also completely walls Chansey behind the Sub and will be a pain to Stall in general, while still being very useful against offensive teams as well. The Knock Off, Pursuit and Sucker Punch weaknesses suck, but the Sub kind mostly makes it better. I see Hoopa being viable in OU and probably ending up in RU, where it will likely be a force, but still has Spiritomb as a hard counter plus Doublade, Shiftry and others to revenge kill it. It will be horrible in UU though, where the two most common Pokemon in the tier, Mega Blastoise and Hydreigon, both give it a really hard time.
Hoopa @ Leftovers/Life Orb/Sitrus Berry/No item
Ability: Magician
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Timid/Modest Nature
- Substitute
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
It also completely walls Chansey behind the Sub and will be a pain to Stall in general, while still being very useful against offensive teams as well. The Knock Off, Pursuit and Sucker Punch weaknesses suck, but the Sub kind mostly makes it better. I see Hoopa being viable in OU and probably ending up in RU, where it will likely be a force, but still has Spiritomb as a hard counter plus Doublade, Shiftry and others to revenge kill it. It will be horrible in UU though, where the two most common Pokemon in the tier, Mega Blastoise and Hydreigon, both give it a really hard time.
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It only really has significant special bulk, I'd rather use sub and probably petaya for that extra power. Hoopa is the sort of pokemon you're going to set up a sub on on pokemon you wall like Chansey and start wallbreaking, not stall out pokemon setting up several subs so leftovers is unnecessary. Of course, that's if you're using a berry at all hoping to abuse magician, you're better off with life orb or maybe an expert belt if you really don't want to damage yourself after laying down a sub. You shouldn't really bother running leftovers on Hoopa, even sub Hoopa, since it's the sort of pokemon that's probably only going to be setting up one in a game.
Even if the type gems are released magician doesn't activate the turn you lose an item, so you'll actually have to activate your gem, and then steal an item next turn, it really sucks.
Not with 80/60 physical bulk and a 4x weakness to sucker punch he isn't. Plus he doesn't get agility anyway, and agility is already a pretty widely distributed move so it's no way going to be an ORAS tutor.
Hoopa's strength is also undermined because its STABs are low bp moves. It may have a 150 Spatk for instance but shadow ball is hardly super powerful at only 80 power. Other pokemon who have lower offensive stats hit way harder, like Landorus or Charizard X for instance.
isn't Bisharp like... the only Pokemon in OU with Sucker Punch?
tbh, you could just run a Trick Scarf set and just trick your Scarf on Bisharp when he tries to Sucker Punch
Why is that???
Technically, both Gengar and Sableye get Sucker Punch, but they don't have good enough reasons to use it most of the time.
People are making way too big of a deal of the 4x Dark and Ghost weakness. It has 80/60/130 bulk. Any STAB Sucker Punch / Pursuit would have KOd it even if it had only a 2x weakness. It probably won't be surviving any STAB Shadow Balls but that's pretty much just Gengar (who obviously can't switch in).
Anyway this thing seems pretty bad. Slow, physically frail, useless ability, bad typing... It doesn't even hit as hard as you would think. Its strongest move is Psychic, and most of the time the power will be deducted even more just to use Psyshock. It is interesting that Sub / CM / Shadow Ball / Focus Blast is capable of 6-0ing pretty much any stall team without Unaware Clefable. Still a sucky mon in OU though.
Anyway this thing seems pretty bad. Slow, physically frail, useless ability, bad typing... It doesn't even hit as hard as you would think. Its strongest move is Psychic, and most of the time the power will be deducted even more just to use Psyshock. It is interesting that Sub / CM / Shadow Ball / Focus Blast is capable of 6-0ing pretty much any stall team without Unaware Clefable. Still a sucky mon in OU though.
I'm afraid this thing will be stuck in the BL2 limbo. On one hand it has a great special attack that can nuke shit. On the other hand it is slow and has two instant kill 4x weaknesses.
I think Hoopa can be great when used right but only with a hard-to-use niche as beside power the other ghosts completely outclass it.
I think Hoopa can be great when used right but only with a hard-to-use niche as beside power the other ghosts completely outclass it.
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