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Pokémon Volcanion

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Alomomola, Slowbro, and Slowking all kick it's ass too, unless it runs HP Electric or something.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Volcanion Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 168-198 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Volcanion Hydro Pump vs. 232 HP / 24 SpD Alomomola: 251-296 (47.4 - 55.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery


(Used the UU spread for Alomomola because the calc doesn't list the OU spread)

Neither can do anything back anyway so I don't see how they're counters. Slowking will live but needs to be running Psychic STAB to hurt it and that's extremely easy to punish by switching to a Bisharp or T-Tar and Pursuit Trap you.
 
252+ SpA Choice Specs Volcanion Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 168-198 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Volcanion Hydro Pump vs. 232 HP / 24 SpD Alomomola: 251-296 (47.4 - 55.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery


(Used the UU spread for Alomomola because the calc doesn't list the OU spread)

Neither can do anything back anyway so I don't see how they're counters. Slowking will live but needs to be running Psychic STAB to hurt it and that's extremely easy to punish by switching to a Bisharp or T-Tar and Pursuit Trap you.
That's presuming it's running specs. The fact that it requires specs to deal significant damage to them means that at the very least they're threats to Volcanion. Also, I doubt specs will be the most prominent set on Volcanion, as Fire Water is not the most desirable defensive typing, on top of that being weak to rocks. Volcanion won't want to be locked into one move, especially with Sand Offense being so prominent. Volc could hit them all with Hydro on the switch, but that would require you to win the 50/50 every time you send it in.
Life Orb would most likely be the item of choice [hehe] but that won't hit Mola and Slowbro/king hard enough to 2HKO.

Also, the calc you listed for Slowbro says 252 HP and 4 SpD, so I'm assuming the remaining 252 is SpA. So that proves offensive Slowbro isn't a counter, but defensive Slowbros can run 252 HP and 252 SpD, which could obviously take any hit Volc wants to go for significantly better. And I'm not sure on this one, but isn't defensive Slowbro far more common?
 
That's presuming it's running specs. The fact that it requires specs to deal significant damage to them means that at the very least they're threats to Volcanion. Also, I doubt specs will be the most prominent set on Volcanion, as Fire Water is not the most desirable defensive typing, on top of that being weak to rocks. Volcanion won't want to be locked into one move, especially with Sand Offense being so prominent. Volc could hit them all with Hydro on the switch, but that would require you to win the 50/50 every time you send it in.
Life Orb would most likely be the item of choice [hehe] but that won't hit Mola and Slowbro/king hard enough to 2HKO.

Also, the calc you listed for Slowbro says 252 HP and 4 SpD, so I'm assuming the remaining 252 is SpA. So that proves offensive Slowbro isn't a counter, but defensive Slowbros can run 252 HP and 252 SpD, which could obviously take any hit Volc wants to go for significantly better. And I'm not sure on this one, but isn't defensive Slowbro far more common?


It is Defensivw Slowbro but its not going to show the Defensive EVs people use to counter Char X and Mega Medi when against a special attacker like Volc.
 
That's presuming it's running specs. The fact that it requires specs to deal significant damage to them means that at the very least they're threats to Volcanion. Also, I doubt specs will be the most prominent set on Volcanion, as Fire Water is not the most desirable defensive typing, on top of that being weak to rocks. Volcanion won't want to be locked into one move, especially with Sand Offense being so prominent. Volc could hit them all with Hydro on the switch, but that would require you to win the 50/50 every time you send it in.
Life Orb would most likely be the item of choice [hehe] but that won't hit Mola and Slowbro/king hard enough to 2HKO.

Also, the calc you listed for Slowbro says 252 HP and 4 SpD, so I'm assuming the remaining 252 is SpA. So that proves offensive Slowbro isn't a counter, but defensive Slowbros can run 252 HP and 252 SpD, which could obviously take any hit Volc wants to go for significantly better. And I'm not sure on this one, but isn't defensive Slowbro far more common?
Okay, Stealth Rock weakness is really bad, but Volcanion's defensive typing is actually really good with quad resistances to Fire, Ice, and Steel, an immunity to water and a Fairy resistance along with three weaknesses, two of which aren't really common attacking types (though not exactly rare either). Add this to solid bulk and Volcanion can last throughout the match as a bulky Specs user sans Stealth Rocks.

Sand Offense is super-weak to Steam Eruption, so something's guaranteed to die if Volcanion outspeeds something or gets a free turn. Yes, it is difficult getting in, but if it does, something goes boom. This thing's Steam Eruption is stronger than Specs Keldeo's Hydro Pump, so Specs will definitely be very viable on Volcanion.

Slowbro's always defense and HP invested. I don't know where you're getting SpA invested Slowbro from and Slowbro would never run a Sp. Def spread in OU. Plus the Steam Eruption burn can ensure the 2HKO on Bro and Mola and it can just use Sludge Wave instead to guarantee it. It doesn't even need HP electric.
 
Specially defensive Rotom-W will probably be the best offensive check to that thing in the classical sense. It resist it's STAB moves and can t-bolt/v-switch on it and by invest in special defense instead of physical defense it can avoid 2hko from the specs set although the burn chance will send it to a early grave.
 
Rotom-wash might not like the burn chance.
Anyways, looking forward to use this thing, especially for the burn chance, haha, I believe that Volcanion itself will be Volcanion's greatest answer.
This will also make vaporeon a bit different than Alomomola, thanks to water absorb... for what is worth.
 
The Calculator has the wrong stats for Volcanion. Volcanion is actually hitting harder than it says it is. With 130 Sp. Atk:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Volcanion Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 177-209 (44.9 - 53%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Volcanion Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 177-209 (44.9 - 53%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Volcanion Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 204-241 (51.7 - 61.1%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Volcanion Hydro Pump vs. 232 HP / 24 SpD Alomomola: 264-311 (49.9 - 58.7%) -- 71.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Volcanion Sludge Wave vs. 232 HP / 24 SpD Alomomola: 305-359 (57.6 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
These are without Stealth Rock btw.
 
It almost sounds like a pro-ban argument if a one mon makes Vaporeon look like a viable mon in OU xD
Lol, I worded that badly, my bad, of course Vaporeon at the moment is completely outclassed by Alomomola as a bulky water with wish passing, even though she has more satk, but maybe with Volcanion's release she might find some utility that sets her apart from Alomomola.
Ok maybe the fact that Vaporeon is one of my favorite pokemon makes me biased.
 
Specs Volcanion reminds me of Band Staraptor in a sense: Both have a STAB move that hits even resists really hard, so much that their other moves are situational, but can only use it a few times (PP for Volcanion, recoil for Staraptor)
 
Specially defensive Rotom-W will probably be the best offensive check to that thing in the classical sense. It resist it's STAB moves and can t-bolt/v-switch on it and by invest in special defense instead of physical defense it can avoid 2hko from the specs set although the burn chance will send it to a early grave.
SpD Rotom-W is a horrible set (since you can't check shit like BirdSpam with it) and has to not get burned and/or be at 100% when it comes in to counter. Even then you need to have Thunderbolt to have a chance to OHKO after SR and you'll be outsped so you may lose anyway.
 
Okay, Stealth Rock weakness is really bad, but Volcanion's defensive typing is actually really good with quad resistances to Fire, Ice, and Steel, an immunity to water and a Fairy resistance along with three weaknesses, two of which aren't really common attacking types (though not exactly rare either). Add this to solid bulk and Volcanion can last throughout the match as a bulky Specs user sans Stealth Rocks.

Sand Offense is super-weak to Steam Eruption, so something's guaranteed to die if Volcanion outspeeds something or gets a free turn. Yes, it is difficult getting in, but if it does, something goes boom. This thing's Steam Eruption is stronger than Specs Keldeo's Hydro Pump, so Specs will definitely be very viable on Volcanion.

Slowbro's always defense and HP invested. I don't know where you're getting SpA invested Slowbro from and Slowbro would never run a Sp. Def spread in OU. Plus the Steam Eruption burn can ensure the 2HKO on Bro and Mola and it can just use Sludge Wave instead to guarantee it. It doesn't even need HP electric.

Volcanion's typing is somewhat crappy actually. Not bad per say but not good? It does have some nice resistances... it basically hard walls Azumarill. Or so it appears!

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 114-135 (37.8 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 165-195 (54.8 - 64.7%) guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 204-240 (67.7 - 79.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

It can switch in on Waterfall but if it switches in on Play Rough it has to either use Sludge Bomb or hope to burn with Steam Eruption. It doesn't "wall very much else.

Really looking through the OU list there are only a handful of things Volcanion can freely switch in on. Being Stealth Rock weak isn't impossible to work around but it is certainly limiting as it focuses you to either run certain things or just accept that most games Volcanion will have max 75% HP. The Earthquake weakness is annoying preventing it from tanking hits from a bunch of things such as Garchomp, Landorus, and Gyarados. It is slow, not very bulky (unless you run HP investment, though I suggest 252 speed Timid to outpace Adamant Gyarados / Dragonite / Mamoswine), and is predictable (It's going to be spamming Steam Eruption probably 90% of the time). It can't really break its counters by using unorthodox sets unlike a real wall breaker can like Keldeo (HP Flying), Thundurus (Taunt / Nasty Plot), Pinsir (Knock Off), or Victini (Grass Knot).

Sorry but I don't see this thing making OU. You can dump calcs about how devastating Steam Eruption is but you can do the exact same thing with Darmanitan and Rampardos (or more relevant, Specs Heatran). The problem isn't its power, but the coverage / speed / typing. Steam Eruption is pretty much the only thing it has that makes it stand out and most of the time Steam Eruption functions exactly the same as Hydro Pump.
 
Sorry but I don't see this thing making OU. You can dump calcs about how devastating Steam Eruption is but you can do the exact same thing with Darmanitan and Rampardos (or more relevant, Specs Heatran). The problem isn't its power, but the coverage / speed / typing. Steam Eruption is pretty much the only thing it has that makes it stand out and most of the time Steam Eruption functions exactly the same as Hydro Pump.

With the rising popularity of Rain teams in OU I have doubts about this statement.
 
Yeah I can see Volcanion being stunningly helpful facing a team full of Pokemon that resist its STABs.

But with coverage to handle them and negating their most potent STAB altogether... as well as gaining a boost in his own STAB, since rain teams aren't entirely built on rain abusers but a small core of abusers + those that synergize well like Fero or Scizor. The entire team is certainly not going to resist his STAB.
 
Volcanion's typing is somewhat crappy actually. Not bad per say but not good? It does have some nice resistances... it basically hard walls Azumarill. Or so it appears!

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 114-135 (37.8 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 165-195 (54.8 - 64.7%) guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 204-240 (67.7 - 79.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

It can switch in on Waterfall but if it switches in on Play Rough it has to either use Sludge Bomb or hope to burn with Steam Eruption. It doesn't "wall very much else.

Really looking through the OU list there are only a handful of things Volcanion can freely switch in on. Being Stealth Rock weak isn't impossible to work around but it is certainly limiting as it focuses you to either run certain things or just accept that most games Volcanion will have max 75% HP. The Earthquake weakness is annoying preventing it from tanking hits from a bunch of things such as Garchomp, Landorus, and Gyarados. It is slow, not very bulky (unless you run HP investment, though I suggest 252 speed Timid to outpace Adamant Gyarados / Dragonite / Mamoswine), and is predictable (It's going to be spamming Steam Eruption probably 90% of the time). It can't really break its counters by using unorthodox sets unlike a real wall breaker can like Keldeo (HP Flying), Thundurus (Taunt / Nasty Plot), Pinsir (Knock Off), or Victini (Grass Knot).

Sorry but I don't see this thing making OU. You can dump calcs about how devastating Steam Eruption is but you can do the exact same thing with Darmanitan and Rampardos (or more relevant, Specs Heatran). The problem isn't its power, but the coverage / speed / typing. Steam Eruption is pretty much the only thing it has that makes it stand out and most of the time Steam Eruption functions exactly the same as Hydro Pump.
Band is not that common anymore, and if it is Banded then Volcanion will still win thanks to outspeeding it (Base 70>55) and KOing.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Volcanion Hydro Pump vs. 228 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 178-210 (44.7 - 52.7%) -- 24.2% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Volcanion Sludge Wave vs. 228 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 410-484 (103 - 121.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Having to go for Sludge Wave isn't a bad thing when virtually nothing that resists it wants to switch in for fear of a Steam Eruption (which has 95% accuracy btw so it's not iffy like Hydro) along with a possible burn.

You also are underestimating its typing. You resist Bug, Steel, Fairy, Ice, Fire, and are immune to one of the best STABs in the game (Water). That gives a shit-ton of switch-in opportunities on top of decent 80/120/90 bulk to abuse them. Yeah having an SR weakness sucks but that doesn't stop Talonflame or Mega Pinsir from murdering the entire tier, and base 70 is the same as Bisharp with an equally (if not moreso) spammable move at your disposal but more opportunities to fuck would-be checks and counters.
 
Volcanion's typing is somewhat crappy actually. Not bad per say but not good? It does have some nice resistances... it basically hard walls Azumarill. Or so it appears!

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 114-135 (37.8 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 165-195 (54.8 - 64.7%) guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 204-240 (67.7 - 79.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

It can switch in on Waterfall but if it switches in on Play Rough it has to either use Sludge Bomb or hope to burn with Steam Eruption. It doesn't "wall very much else.

Really looking through the OU list there are only a handful of things Volcanion can freely switch in on. Being Stealth Rock weak isn't impossible to work around but it is certainly limiting as it focuses you to either run certain things or just accept that most games Volcanion will have max 75% HP. The Earthquake weakness is annoying preventing it from tanking hits from a bunch of things such as Garchomp, Landorus, and Gyarados. It is slow, not very bulky (unless you run HP investment, though I suggest 252 speed Timid to outpace Adamant Gyarados / Dragonite / Mamoswine), and is predictable (It's going to be spamming Steam Eruption probably 90% of the time). It can't really break its counters by using unorthodox sets unlike a real wall breaker can like Keldeo (HP Flying), Thundurus (Taunt / Nasty Plot), Pinsir (Knock Off), or Victini (Grass Knot).

Sorry but I don't see this thing making OU. You can dump calcs about how devastating Steam Eruption is but you can do the exact same thing with Darmanitan and Rampardos (or more relevant, Specs Heatran). The problem isn't its power, but the coverage / speed / typing. Steam Eruption is pretty much the only thing it has that makes it stand out and most of the time Steam Eruption functions exactly the same as Hydro Pump.

You forgot to put EVs into HP; that might make a difference.

EDIT: Nvm, I'll do it myself. :P

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 114-135 (33.1 - 39.2%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 165-195 (47.9 - 56.6%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO

Then after the item is knocked off...
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 111-131 (32.2 - 38%) -- 95.9% chance to 3HKO

At max for both Knock Offs, it's going to be doing 94% total (just an approximation; crits not included). Even w/o Specs, it can still 2HKO w/ Sludge Wave AND it can outspeed, just as Karxrida said.

As for stats, it's speed may be low, but as mentioned by numerous amounts of people, it makes up for this w/ its decent/above average bulk. Can't wall much, you say? It's not meant to be a wall, it's a wallBREAKER. 252 Speed EVS won't allow you to outrun Mamoswine, Lando-T, or Dragonite; or much else for that matter. Some of the best mons in the metagame are weak to/hit hard by EQ; the same goes for SR, lots of things are weak to it. Look at Mega Zard X, it's slow by sweeping standards; it's easily revenged by many Scarfed mons (unless you somehow make enough plays to get the opponent's Charizard to +2).

My point is don't underestimate it 'til Volc's romping around OU legally.
 
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Band is not that common anymore, and if it is Banded then Volcanion will still win thanks to outspeeding it (Base 70>55) and KOing.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Volcanion Hydro Pump vs. 228 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 178-210 (44.7 - 52.7%) -- 24.2% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Volcanion Sludge Wave vs. 228 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 410-484 (103 - 121.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Having to go for Sludge Wave isn't a bad thing when virtually nothing that resists it wants to switch in for fear of a Steam Eruption (which has 95% accuracy btw so it's not iffy like Hydro) along with a possible burn.

Please stop using "Steam Eruption is so strong" as a counter argument for literally everything. That's all this thread has become. People just listing off damage calcs for Volcanion. Guess what, it has 130 base SA. Latios, Terrakion, Keldeo... even BS like Victini can throw around similar damage output. The only real difference is that Volcanion trades off speed for +30 BP and -5% accuracy on its Scalds. Steam Eruption is awesome, but please don't ignore Volcanion's other attributes which frankly aren't all that great.

You also are underestimating its typing. You resist Bug, Steel, Fairy, Ice, Fire, and are immune to one of the best STABs in the game (Water). That gives a shit-ton of switch-in opportunities on top of decent 80/120/90 bulk to abuse them.

And the weaknesses leave it shit right on by a number of common Pokes. This is something that could be helped if it had more speed (like Mega Pinsir or +1 DD M Gyarados) but no, it's slow and without significant investment it isn't really all that bulky.

Yeah having an SR weakness sucks but that doesn't stop Talonflame or Mega Pinsir from murdering the entire tier, and base 70 is the same as Bisharp with an equally (if not moreso) spammable move at your disposal but more opportunities to fuck would-be checks and counters.

SR weakness doesn't stop them because both of them have insane speed. Despite this they are reliant on hazard control just like Volcanion would be. Unlike Volcanion they can at least attempt to evade being revenge killed or easily checked through their enormous speed and priority moves.

Bisharp was better when Aegislash was OU but it still shits all over Defog and has enormous utility with Pursuit and Knock Off as well as priority in Sucker Punch. Due to priority it doesn't really get fucked by its low speed as often as you would expect.

You forgot to put EVs into HP; that might make a difference.

EDIT: Nvm, I'll do it myself. :P

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 114-135 (33.1 - 39.2%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 165-195 (47.9 - 56.6%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO

Then after the item is knocked off...
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 111-131 (32.2 - 38%) -- 95.9% chance to 3HKO

At max for both Knock Offs, it's going to be doing 94% total (just an approximation; crits not included). Even w/o Specs, it can still 2HKO w/ Sludge Wave AND it can outspeed, just as Karxrida said.

In Pokemon you do a thing called switching. Volcanion can switch in on Azumarill but it risks a ton of damage and is defeated by Knock Off.

As for stats, it's speed may be low, but as mentioned by numerous amounts of people, it makes up for this w/ its decent/above average bulk. Can't wall much, you say? It's not meant to be a wall, it's a wallBREAKER. 252 Speed EVS won't allow you to outrun Mamoswine, Lando-T, or Dragonite; or much else for that matter.

Uhh, no. Idk what the best speed will end up being but to say it doesn't need speed is idiotic. Here are the things you outrun with 252 Timid vs 0 Modest.

Azumarill with speed EVs.
Adamant Bisharp.
Speed tie at worst with Breloom.
Adamant Dragonite.
Adamant Gyarados.
Pre-Mega'd Modest Gardevoir. Outruns it on the turn it Megas too.
Pretty much all Gliscor.
Heatran.
Adamant Mega Heracross.
Bulky Landorus T.
Adamant Mamoswine.
Fucking Mandibuzz.
Magnezone.
Adamant Medicham pre-mega.
Mew.
Bulky Rotom W.
Mega Scizor.
Skarmory.
Mega Venusaur.
Zapdos.
Suicune.

Running 252 HP / 252 SA is a shitty spread. If you are using a "Wall breaker" you should at least be able to outrun some walls.

Some of the best mons in the metagame are weak to/hit hard by EQ; the same goes for SR, lots of things are weak to it. Look at Mega Zard X, it's slow by sweeping standards; it's easily revenged by many Scarfed mons (unless you somehow make enough plays to get the opponent's Charizard to +2).

How is a +1 base 100 slow. What scarfers even outrun it? Latios? Terrakion? Garchomp? Keldeo? Legit things to watch out for but Charizard X is not slow by any means.

My point is don't underestimate it 'til Volc's romping around OU legally.

It's true. No doubt I have not used Volcanion before nor would I be the player good enough to find any possible OU use for it. However the same goes to everyone here. Volcanion has some solid points but it is extremely one dimensional and you should all consider that fact. Know why people don't use Specs Heatran? Because despite having similar power it is slow, easily revenged, and has commonly resisted STABs. 30% burn is super rad but it is only 30%, which while it will activate a reasonable amount 70% of the time it is just a Hydro Pump. Is this enough to make up for its shortcomings? Hard to say. I think it will end up in a similar place to Victini... Absolutely usable in OU but not spectacular. Probably UU tier.
 
Please stop using "Steam Eruption is so strong" as a counter argument for literally everything. That's all this thread has become. People just listing off damage calcs for Volcanion. Guess what, it has 130 base SA. Latios, Terrakion, Keldeo... even BS like Victini can throw around similar damage output. The only real difference is that Volcanion trades off speed for +30 BP and -5% accuracy on its Scalds. Steam Eruption is awesome, but please don't ignore Volcanion's other attributes which frankly aren't all that great.



And the weaknesses leave it shit right on by a number of common Pokes. This is something that could be helped if it had more speed (like Mega Pinsir or +1 DD M Gyarados) but no, it's slow and without significant investment it isn't really all that bulky.



SR weakness doesn't stop them because both of them have insane speed. Despite this they are reliant on hazard control just like Volcanion would be. Unlike Volcanion they can at least attempt to evade being revenge killed or easily checked through their enormous speed and priority moves.

Bisharp was better when Aegislash was OU but it still shits all over Defog and has enormous utility with Pursuit and Knock Off as well as priority in Sucker Punch. Due to priority it doesn't really get fucked by its low speed as often as you would expect.



In Pokemon you do a thing called switching. Volcanion can switch in on Azumarill but it risks a ton of damage and is defeated by Knock Off.



Uhh, no. Idk what the best speed will end up being but to say it doesn't need speed is idiotic. Here are the things you outrun with 252 Timid vs 0 Modest.

Azumarill with speed EVs.
Adamant Bisharp.
Speed tie at worst with Breloom.
Adamant Dragonite.
Adamant Gyarados.
Pre-Mega'd Modest Gardevoir. Outruns it on the turn it Megas too.
Pretty much all Gliscor.
Heatran.
Adamant Mega Heracross.
Bulky Landorus T.
Adamant Mamoswine.
Fucking Mandibuzz.
Magnezone.
Adamant Medicham pre-mega.
Mew.
Bulky Rotom W.
Mega Scizor.
Skarmory.
Mega Venusaur.
Zapdos.
Suicune.

Running 252 HP / 252 SA is a shitty spread. If you are using a "Wall breaker" you should at least be able to outrun some walls.



How is a +1 base 100 slow. What scarfers even outrun it? Latios? Terrakion? Garchomp? Keldeo? Legit things to watch out for but Charizard X is not slow by any means.



It's true. No doubt I have not used Volcanion before nor would I be the player good enough to find any possible OU use for it. However the same goes to everyone here. Volcanion has some solid points but it is extremely one dimensional and you should all consider that fact. Know why people don't use Specs Heatran? Because despite having similar power it is slow, easily revenged, and has commonly resisted STABs. 30% burn is super rad but it is only 30%, which while it will activate a reasonable amount 70% of the time it is just a Hydro Pump. Is this enough to make up for its shortcomings? Hard to say. I think it will end up in a similar place to Victini... Absolutely usable in OU but not spectacular. Probably UU tier.

Perhaps I forgot to elaborate enough, my bad. Mega Zard X is not slow by any means, but it's slow enough to be revenged by common scarfers at + 1 such as the ones you mentioned. Yes, I am aware there is a thing called switching; Volc can switch in, take a Knock Off and still 2HKO w/ Sludge Wave. However, it, along with most other mons, does not appreciate its item being removed. As for threats that are outsped w/ 252 speed EVs...

96 Speed EVs w/ Timid can outspeed Bulky Lando-T (by a point).

Suicune is not relevent; neither it nor Volcanion can harm each other.

If it's the Specially Defensive set, Volc only needs a Timid nature w/o speed EVs (assuming Heatran isn't running speed EVs). If it's an Air Balloon set (w/ 244 speed EVs), then Volc will need to run 216 EVs to outspeed it (or 212 EVs to speed tie).

Idk what spread you're running on your Mew, but it outspeeds Volc most of the time.

Volc only needs 212 EVs to outspeed Mega Scizor; the same applies to Mega Heracross.

Most of the time, others run a speed-increasing nature on Mamoswine.

It can run 184 speed EVs to outpace Zapdos.


I could go on, but my point is it doesn't need 252 speed EVs. (At the time of typing this, I'm extremely tired. Thus, my facts may or may not be weird, for a lack of a better word.) Hopefully I clarified things a bit.

I think it will end up in a similar place to Victini... Absolutely usable in OU but not spectacular. Probably UU tier.
Fair enough.

Know why people don't use Specs Heatran? Because despite having similar power it is slow, easily revenged, and has commonly resisted STABs.
On a side note, people also don't use Specs Heatran cuz Mega Charizard Y exists.
 
Perhaps I forgot to elaborate enough, my bad. Mega Zard X is not slow by any means, but it's slow enough to be revenged by common scarfers at + 1 such as the ones you mentioned.

Okay but how is that relevant?

Yes, I am aware there is a thing called switching; Volc can switch in, take a Knock Off and still 2HKO w/ Sludge Wave. However, it, along with most other mons, does not appreciate its item being removed.

My point was that Volcanion can still take crippling damage switching in. It is at best a check, not a counter.

As for threats that are outsped w/ 252 speed EVs...

96 Speed EVs w/ Timid can outspeed Bulky Lando-T (by a point).

Suicune is not relevent; neither it nor Volcanion can harm each other.

If it's the Specially Defensive set, Volc only needs a Timid nature w/o speed EVs (assuming Heatran isn't running speed EVs). If it's an Air Balloon set (w/ 244 speed EVs), then Volc will need to run 216 EVs to outspeed it (or 212 EVs to speed tie).

Idk what spread you're running on your Mew, but it outspeeds Volc most of the time.

Volc only needs 212 EVs to outspeed Mega Scizor; the same applies to Mega Heracross.

Most of the time, others run a speed-increasing nature on Mamoswine.

It can run 184 speed EVs to outpace Zapdos.


I could go on, but my point is it doesn't need 252 speed EVs. (At the time of typing this, I'm extremely tired. Thus, my facts may or may not be weird, for a lack of a better word.) Hopefully I clarified things a bit.

Exactly what I was saying. Your Volcanion defensive calculations had it running 252 HP. So what is it? It clearly can't run max HP and speed so at some point it has to sacrifice something.

Also outrunning Suicune is important because it lets you hit it twice for around 60-70% total while if it outruns you it can easily Rest itself back to HP. The difference is KOing a somewhat weakened Suicune and being basically incapable of killing even a badly damaged one.

On a side note, people also don't use Specs Heatran cuz Mega Charizard Y exists.

Yeah because Charizard Y has speed (kinda) and the ability to switch moves / roost / be unpredictable. Volcanion literally has Specs Steam Eruption.


Alternatively it might have some niche defensive sets that it could use. It has the right typing, moves, and stats to be really annoying with the right set.
 
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Steam Eruption's best trait is being a psychological threat, just like Scald. 30% is not that much but it's enough to make physical checks hesitate to switch in. Even if it fails to burn once in the entire battle...

Problem is (Or rather, due to this), most potential checks to Volcanion are specially-based
 
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So how about that Earth Power tutor?

Volcanion has super good coverage now with Steam Eruption, Flare Blitz/Overheat/Flamethrower, and now Earth Power. Looks like Heatran just got thrown in the steamer.

Not really, Heatran's still good.
Heatran can still wall Lati@s w/o Surf, and come in on Psychic type attacks.
 
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