• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

Project The PU Viability Ranking Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
I want to Rank Honedge to C Rank. its a very cool pokemon. it can sweep teams with sd and has priority to kill weakened pokemon. its like doublade in ru. it can also run a sub toxic and rest talk sets very well. the only problems is its aweful spd stat which is quite sad for a tank. but it has redeeming qualities that can make it efficient in the pu metagame
 
Glalie for B-->B+
Glalie has a definite niche in PU as it is a decent suicide spiker, with access to Taunt, Spikes, and even Super Fang. It also has Explosion to prevent Defog and rapid spin. Icy Wind is also a somewhat OK option to slow down other leads, but Ice Beam is better as it is a 2HKO on Golem and hurts Leavanny. 80 base speed is faster than another suicide spiker, Delibird, while you also Taunt Garbodor, Gigalith, etc. 80/80/80 defense honestly isn't too bad, while Super Fang is a nice suprise. It also has priority in the form of Ice Shard. Finally, Scarf Switcheroo can really mess stuff up...IMO one of the best suicide spikers in the meta right now.
 
Update:
Code: 
Ninetales from A- to A
Throh from A- to A
Avalugg from B to A-
Altaria from B to B+
Simipour from B to B+
Victreebel from B to B+
Sawsbuck stays in B+
Glalie from B to B+
Stoutland from B- to B+
Carbink from C+ to B
Gogoat stays in B
Hippopotas from B- to B
Electrode stays in B-
Quilladin from C to C+
Solrock from C- to C+
Dragonair stays in C
Honedge from unlisted to C
Vibrava from unlisted to C
Tropius from C- to C
Clefairy from D+ to C
Wailord stays in C-
Walrein stays in C-
Dusclops from D+ to C-
Dusknoir from D- to C-
Illumise stays in C-
Maractus from D- to D+
Corsola stays in D
Simisage stays in D (for now, it needs discussion)
Noctowl stays in D
Pidgeot from C to D-
Stantler from D+ to D-
Shedinja from D+ to D-
Pikachu stays in D-
Growlithe from unlisted to D-
Plusle from D- to E
Dunsparce from D+ to E
Phione from D to E
Regigigas stays in E
Minun from D- to E
Unfezant from D+ to E
Cacnea stays unlisted

There were a lot of Pokemon, and not too many major changes, so if you want reasoning for a particular Pokemon, feel free to PM me. Sorry that this update was rather delayed. Now that we've fixed some immediate issues, we're going to aim to improve the S and A rankings, and possibly the high B rankings. If you have a particular opinion on why any of the below nominations should be in a particular ranking, feel free to post, but only on specific rankings, not on them all at once.

Nominations:
Poliwrath from A+ to S
Golem from A to A+
Ninetales from A to A+
Piloswine from A to A+
Bouffalant from A- to A
Chatot from A- to A
Kadabra from A- to A
Rotom-F from A- to A
Serperior from A- to A
Huntail from A- to B+
Raichu from B+ to A-
Heatmor from B+ to A-
Misdreavus from B+ to A-
Gogoat from B+ to B
Torterra from B+ to A-
Camerupt from B to B+
Klang from B- to B
Sliggoo from B- to B
Murkrow from C+ to B
Zweilous from C- to B-
Natu from D to C
Dusknoir from C- to B- / C+ / C

Get posting!
 
I highly, highly agree with Golem up to A+. It's such a great check to the many Flying- and Fire-types in the tier, can set up Stealth Rock quite reliably thanks to Sturdy, and has a great dual STAB combination that makes it hard to switch into. Just really easy to fit onto a team and deserving of A+.

I like the idea of Boufflant in A. It's so fucking powerful and has amazing natural bulk, and Sub SD just destroys everything. It also has two great abilities in Soundproof and Sap Sipper, the former allowing it to counter Chatot and be better protected when behind a Sub, while the latter gives it an immunity to Grass attacks while also giving it the equivalent of a Choice Band boost.

I think Poliwrath should stay A+. While it does counter Sneasel and the Shell Smash users very nicely, I still feel like it doesn't do much besides that. Like, it kinda just Circle Throw's shit around until something comes out that it can't deal with. It also sucks that Sneasel has Knock Off to remove its Leftovers and wear it down even more drastically. Add in entry hazard support, and Poliwrath can find itself getting worn down quite easily. Also doesn't Barbaracle carry Aerial Ace now to deal with it? (+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Barbaracle Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 246-290 (64 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery.) I like to compare it to Lando-T in OU: while Lando-T can check Zard X, BirdSpam, Drill, and many other top-tier threats, it on its own isn't large enough of a threat to warrant S rank.

Finally, I think Natu is fine in D. I tried it out and was severely disappointed; bad bulk + Knock Off everywhere + inability to switch into the majority of Stealth Rock users in the tier means it doesn't even end up preforming its role most of the time.

Some others I like but am not 100% sure about are Rotom-F, Chatot, and Kadabra to A, Torterra and Raichu to A-, Camrupt to B+, and Gogoat to B.
 
Last edited:
Weres Cottonee? ;_; ok, i doesnt care much either

I have experience with all of them, but i would rathen have this after the musha suspect, the meta can change a lot (or not that much, who knows) and some things are going to switch rankings again.

Poliwrath from A+ to S:
If we ban Musharna (most likely) this gonig to be an obvious change, the main problem with Poli is how easily Musharna can switch into him and either kill the defensive set or set up in the SubPunch set. But everyone must know how good Poli is, him can take care of most A rank mons (Barba, non-toxic Garbo, Golem, Licky, Puru, Pilo, etc.) and is the best answer for our Lord Carracosta and Sneasel the Tyrant (him hate to lose left, but make sneas run away is awesome, poli is always used with hazards support so him is going to die quickly). SubPunch + Toxic is a hell for teams without Roselia, and RestTalker is one of the best phazers in the Tier.

Golem from A to A+
Is hard to stop Golem, him put rocks better than anyone thanks to Sturdy and a huge offensive pressure. WP is hard to play against, with StoneEdge dealing huge damage to basically everything no named Tangela/Gourgeist and Sucker Punch makes everything worse (for the oponent, obv). You can even run a more defensive variant and keep in check Normal-Types and Choiced Electrics.

Ninetales from A to A+
9 is one of the few things than make stall a bit less viable everyday, if you give it the right support she can destroy basically everything than stall can use, even Licky, Altaria and Sp Defensive Flareon are 2HKO after a NP. The only thing than stop she from being S rank material is than her speed tiers isnt the best, 100 is cool, but PU is a bit more faster than that.

Piloswine from A to A+
Im a big fan of him since the start of the tier. Even when Golem have Rock Stab, check Normal spam and have more power, Pilo have some advantages. Him can check Electrode and Zebstrika more easily thanks to the lack of a x4 weakness. Him can survive a +1 Giga Drain from Serperior and ko him with Icicle Spear (+ Ice Shard if you dont get enough hits). Also, Thick Fat is nice to have, Ice spam can be dangerous.

Bouffalant from A- to A
Him have 3 main abilities, and that make him hard to stop, you cannot use chatot or most grass-types until you know her set. Only Gour and Misdre can switch into AfroReckless. Soundproof SD Bou can set up even on Avalugg, the most common wall in the tier. Him is wonderfull, but cannot do a shit to most Ghost and Sub varian are pretty useless when TS are in the field.

Chatot from A- to A
I dont agree, him is nice, but not that much. Chatter is weak and rely on luck, and if you opponent doesnt hit himself you cannot set up, Chatot have no bulk. And soundproof mons are good for more things than check him, Sub Bou likes the Roar inmunity, support variants of Mr Mime doesnt care of the abillity, and Electroed doesnt even need Soundproof, him have more speed and a supper effective stab. And Chatot speed tier sucks against offensive teams.

Kadabra from A- to A
I dont agree. The meta is so bulky for him, and is a one time shot in most cases.

Serperior from A- to A
Him have many viable sets, and is only countered by sap sippers (a niche thing). Is hard to kill for stall team for how easily him can set up in most walls thanks to Taunt. Sub CM have an easy time setting up and can abuse overgroth pretty easily. The SD set can take most people off guard, and count with cool moves like Knock Off and Aqua Tail to destroy most check of the CM set.

Raichu from B+ to A-
Him have the best movepool of all electric types in the tier, having access to Grass Knot, Focus Blast, Knock Off and Surf (and you can count Expeed and Volt Tackle, i guess), you cannot check it with the same mons than you would use against most electrics. And him is a nice check to other electric-types thanks to Lightingrod.

Misdreavus from B+ to A-
Is one of the best spin blockers, she have more utility options than Gour and having access to Nasty Plot is a good think over Haunter. Pure Ghost is better against Tauros.

Zweilous from C- to B-
I dont like to miss 100% acc moves that much, and if we ban Musha him lose a niche, Dragon-Type isnt that great either, is like normal with some resistance and more weakness, and is slow and have bad bulk. Normal spam is better than Dragon spam in this tier. .

Natu from D to C
Natu is bad, you need god level prediction to use him in the best way, and is more easily for the opponent to predict, all of her stats are bad and her type give tons of weakness. We have many good deffogers and some viable spinners, Magic Bounce is supposed to be better, but is more than hard to use in something like this.

Dusknoir from C- to C
TR is decent, but idk many reasons to use him over Misdre, Gour-XL/S or Haunter.


I want to test more with the others.
 
Before i get for suggested noms i will make a few:
Firstly, why is stoutland higher than hippo? Their viability is dependant on each other. Realistically stoutland without sand is outclassed. Im not going into intimidate or scrappy bs, its plain outclassed (see: bouffalanty/tauros).

The B/C rank does need sorting out.
Firstly meoawstic-m does not fit into b+ compared to the others; its blatantly outclassed as an attacker, and as a dual screener i would much rather use serperior. It fits in better at b (comparable to volbeat). Other than that b+ looks fine

Sligoo is too high, this tier is filled with physical attackers and some special attackers have a way round it (psyshock ninetales/psychics). It allows shit like throh and mush to set up (i dislike dragon tail esp with restalk)

I can also see lapras going down. Its better than sligoo but it faces huge competition as an ice type (auroras is plain better, rotom-f and glaceon also are nice), and still a bit of competition from waters (politoed/prinpulp)

Otherwise the B rank is fine (maybe klang to go up tho)

C rank is a mess. How are outclassed things like raticate/vanilluxe higher than actual good things like clefairy and grumpig? I know they both have niches although raticates isnt very good, and the ice cream recievs stiff competition from glaceon/auroras/rotom-f
I can honestly see C+ and C rank being swapped (sans a few). The only c+ ranks i think should stay are relicanth/quilladin/solrock. At what times do you want ariados over kricketune? it doesnt even have oppertunities to set up tspikes? when are you using gigalith over golem? stronger stone, yes, but much weak eq and horrible speed.

Whilst c rank there is; clefairy, an amazing cm sweeper/bulky rocks setter, who is about to get better now mush is going (possibly). Even with mush here it still is good as it cant be toxic/moonlight stalled to death
Grumpig; Great heatmor check for stall, while also beating near every psychic type and ninetales
Honedge; reliable spin blocker which can set up on a lot of the tier (including mush) while having the ability to sweep + has priority
Prinpulp; good defoger that is neutral to rocks while having good mixed bulk + hazards of its own
Also from c-, zweilos; not too reliable but hit likes a truck. Its too slow/easily revenge kill able from b- though.

Now main stuf (stuff which i care from it):
Piloswine from A to A+
YEs, seen top usage for a reason (inb4 omg he said the word usage in viability ranks. Very reliable stealth rock setter while being a solid check for things like sneasel + good priority. Good volturn stop

Bouffalant from A- to A
YEs, dont know how this wasnt there before. Can run sub and lum to screw with status. Sd hurtss stall while demolishing defensive teams, offense has no real switch ins + is hard to ohko due to lack of fight types. It is walled by ghosts, but then again, so is tauros

Chatot from A- to A
I also agree. Its consistently performs on webs teams yet is still amazing with out it. Not much in the tier wants to take a boomburst, soundproofs get uturn'd on and chatter is so annoying to face

Rotom-F from A- to A
Also agree. The scarf set performs an amazing volt turn core with scyther. Sub life orb is an amazing set. It disrupts offence, who usually have to sac a mon to try and revenge kill. Stall doesnt deal with it well either as pain split annoys lickilicky and has an almost unresisted dual stab

Heatmor from B+ to A-
Yes; best special wall breaker in the tier, has pretty much no counters and can be ev'd to outspeed all relevant stall pokes. It is less effective vs offence but still fills roles (soft check to sneasel, priority)

Misdreavus from B+ to A-
No. Although missy is really good, i just find it is way to weak even with boosts. On nasty plot sets you lose the ability of running wisp (or have to suffer without sub or taunt), letting so much shit switch in. Normal types laugh at dazzling gleam. With out sub or taunt, lickilicky can stall you out and shit like mantine can defog on you

Klang from B- to B
Yes, great musharna check; has the ability to set up on a lot of shit, like lickilicky, garbodor, mush. Can also beat avalugg. It has a cool defensive typing, however mono type coverage isnt nice and shit like poliwrath laughs while taking hits and phazing you out

Sliggoo from B- to B
No, i think it should go down. This is pittyfully weak and only serves as a mediocre special wall;
252 SpA Kadabra Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Sliggoo: 136-162 (40 - 47.6%) -- 51.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Ninetales Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Sliggoo: 182-214 (53.5 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Also relies way too much on dtail to stop sweepers. Substitute laughs

Zweilous from C- to B-
I think c+ is better. Very strong and has good coverage, however being choice locked is never fun and can be revenge killd fairly easily. Similar boat to rampardos, but lacks a cool lead set

Dusknoir from C- to B- / C+ / C
C maximun. Its strength is a joke considering you have no decent STAB. Sub punch sets are a cup of tea for mush and clefairy, actually all sets a fodder for them. It receives competition from other ghosts such as missy. The choice band set is ok i guess.
 
Zweilous should be in at least C as it has strong Outrages to spam, basically you nuke everything if you are in TR or Tailwind, or even baton passed speed somehow. It also can get past stuff with coverage in the elemental fangs and Superpower for Bastiodon. You don't even have to run CB, bluffing it with Ebelt or Draco Plate works well too, as you can get some surprise KOs that way, even Scarf may work although I haven't tried it... B- may be a bit too high as you're outsped by way too much stuff without team support.
 
I don't see Krokorok ranked and I really think it should be, although I'm not sure what level of rank. However it can have ridiculous physical bulk with Eviolite+Intimidate and set up SR reliably, and it can also clean up late game with Scarf+Moxie especially since it has a two very, very good STAB moves in EQ and Knock Off.
 
Well, i think than Zwe should be higher than C-, maybe C+ is a better place for fim.
B- is pretty high.
Also, for the next time, we need to move down some thinks from B to C and a lot from C to D, theres many mons than are outclased like Raticate and some than arent that good, like Metang and Ariados. And in that case, most on D+ and D must go to D-.

But i guess than im not going to have much support for this.
 
Serperior from A- to A. YES. It is very viable on both the special and physical side making for an excellent setup sweeper. I honestly think it should be A+
Poliwrath from A+ to S If musharana is banned I think it should but if not, definitely no.
Golem from A to A+yes. It can put on a ton of pressure and has a guaranteed stealth rocks due to sturdy.
ninetales from A to A+ it is a perfect fast wallbreaker so hell yes.
Bunnelby Unlisted to B-. It has a niche as a monstorous band user with sticky web up as well as performing well as a scarfed user. 252 Atk Choice Band Huge Power Bunnelby U-turn vs. 252 HP / 4+ Def Musharna: 226-268 (51.8 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery. Hell even physically defensive musharana struggles-252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Bunnelby U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Musharna: 192-228 (44 - 52.2%) -- 75.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery. Even piloswine gets hurt. 252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Bunnelby Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Piloswine: 145-172 (35.8 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
It does need a ghost type to block spins so it can keep up the sticky web
Meditite from unlisted to C. It is decently fast with a scarf and can fufill the same niche as bunnelby, with the down sides of more unreliable stabs, and no u-turn. It is also completly walled by musharana. However it does have fake out
Finally gourgeist s and xl from A- to A. They both have a huge variety of support moves such as leech seed and will-o-wisp and of course d bond for small. They can both run a viable band set as well.
 
Last edited:
I highly agree with Golem and Piloswine > A+. Both have priority in both Ice Shard and Sucker Punch and reliably setup SR well. Piloswine also switches in against Sneasel rather well even without it's Eviolite (though I would rather have it on) while putting the brakes on VoltTurn too (as mentioned above). I'm on the fence about Zweilous though. Hustle is a double edged sword that has bitten my in the ass quite a few times when I used the little guy. Also, spamming Outrage isn't as good as it was in Gen 5 when you could just muscle past Steel types because of Fairies who are immune to it. Would rather see him stay in his current ranking.
 
I very much agree with Serperior for A rank, because it can set up with coil, and hit hard with leaf blade, and if you don't want to run coil, you have the giga drain set. It can be countered hard by Levanny, So it needs something there. But overall it can hold it's on in the meta game and is A viable.

Serperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Coil
- Leaf Blade
- Leech Seed
- Synthesis
or

Serperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Giga Drain
- Synthesis
- Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse/ Calm Mind
 
Not to mention it can be a dtail phaser, an all out attacker or a sub leech seed wall with coil or cm plus either giga drain or leaf blade
 
wsdfg said:
Serperior from A- to A. YES. It is very viable on both the special and physical side making for an excellent setup sweeper. I honestly think it should be A+
Poliwrath from A+ to S If musharana is banned I think it should but if not, definitely no.
Golem from A to A+yes. It can put on a ton of pressure and has a guaranteed stealth rocks due to sturdy.
ninetales from A to A+ it is a perfect fast wallbreaker so hell yes.
Bunnelby Unlisted to B-. It has a niche as a monstorous band user with sticky web up as well as performing well as a scarfed user. 252 Atk Choice Band Huge Power Bunnelby U-turn vs. 252 HP / 4+ Def Musharna: 226-268 (51.8 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery. Hell even physically defensive musharana struggles-252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Bunnelby U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Musharna: 192-228 (44 - 52.2%) -- 75.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery. Even piloswine gets hurt. 252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Bunnelby Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Piloswine: 145-172 (35.8 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
It does need a ghost type to block spins so it can keep up the sticky web
Meditite from unlisted to C. It is decently fast with a scarf and can fufill the same niche as bunnelby, with the down sides of more unreliable stabs, and no u-turn. It is also completly walled by musharana. However it does have fake out
Finally gourgeist s and xl from A- to A. They both have a huge variety of support moves such as leech seed and will-o-wisp and of course d bond for small. They can both run a viable band set as well.
Click to expand...

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Bunnelby Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 262-309 (64.8 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 343-405 (84.9 - 100.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Even jolly ursaring hits harder than banded bunnelby, it has better coverage, can switch moves, has more options for the opponent to watch out for, and is still faster than adamant band bunnelby. Bunnelby does have U-turn and quick attack, but B- is too high for it. I am gonna support Poli to S and Pilo to A+ tho
 
Bippy said:
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Bunnelby Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 262-309 (64.8 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 343-405 (84.9 - 100.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Even jolly ursaring hits harder than banded bunnelby, it has better coverage, can switch moves, has more options for the opponent to watch out for, and is still faster than adamant band bunnelby. Bunnelby does have U-turn and quick attack, but B- is too high for it. I am gonna support Poli to S and Pilo to A+ tho
Click to expand...
You're right actually. Maybe it could be c+ as a niche pokemon.
 
wsdfg said:
Not to mention it can be a dtail phaser, an all out attacker or a sub leech seed wall with coil or cm plus either giga drain or leaf blade
Click to expand...
Yea Dragon tail can be used to force out pokemon that like to set up on it, such as maybe other Serperiors.

And:
Ninetales from A to A+ No. Not many pokemon really benefit from sun in PU, even tho it can be used for pokemon with non-STAB Fire type attacks, to strengthen them.
Piloswine from A to A+ Yes. It can be very bulky with eviolite and can tank many hits.
Bouffalant from A- to A Yes. You can run the banded set and hit very hard with Head Smash, and giga impact, if you really want power, plus STAB,.
Chatot from A- to A Yes. Boom Burst Chatot is amazing. It is kind of fast, and can hit very hard.
 
Last edited:
Dillon~ said:
Yea Dragon tail can be used to force out pokemon that like to set up on it, such as maybe other Serperiors.

And:
Ninetales from A to A+ No. Not many pokemon really benefit from sun in PU, even tho it can be used for pokemon with non-STAB Fire type attacks, to strengthen them.
Piloswine from A to A+ Yes. It can be very bulky with eviolite and can tank many hits.
Bouffalant from A- to A Yes. You can run the banded set and hit very hard with Head Smash, and giga impact, if you really want power, plus STAB,.
Chatot from A- to A Yes. Boom Burst Chatot is amazing. It is kind of fast, and can hit very hard.
Click to expand...

Regarding ninetales:
1. Drought is banned by UU so ninetales has to use flash fire
2. PU has lots of sun sweepers such as victreebel and heatmor
3. Ninetales niche is as a nasty plot user, and it does that really well. It has good set up opportunities as it can force common stuff out and great power in order to sweep backed up by a great movepool. The main problem with it is faster pokemon, either way the opp will usually need to sac something then bring it out. I agree with A+

Also note that you a. should never use giga impact on bouffalant, b. its called head charge not head smash, c. the main reason to move it up is its sd set. I also agree with it moving up, not only for this, but also its ability to switch in on pretty much any grass type, probably the best check offence has vs sub calm mind serperior.
 
I think throh should probably be moved to A+. some calcs:252+ Atk Throh Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Musharna: 222-262 (50.9 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery, and 0+ SpA Musharna Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Throh: 174-206 (39.1 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO. It also hardcore counters sneasel,and 252+ Atk Throh Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Scyther: 360-424 (128.1 - 150.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO. It can take hits from ninetales after a nasty plot especially with a sp def set or av. 252+ Atk Throh Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 120 Def Eviolite Roselia: 152-180 (50 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock. it can crush barbacle and carracosta:+2 252 Atk Life Orb Carracosta Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Throh: 341-403 (76.8 - 90.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, and can circle throw it out or if sturdy is broken:252+ Atk Throh Storm Throw vs. -1 4 HP / 0 Def Carracosta on a critical hit: 320-378 (110.3 - 130.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO.
 
wsdfg said:
I think throh should probably be moved to A+. some calcs:252+ Atk Throh Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Musharna: 222-262 (50.9 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery, and 0+ SpA Musharna Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Throh: 174-206 (39.1 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO. It also hardcore counters sneasel,and 252+ Atk Throh Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Scyther: 360-424 (128.1 - 150.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO. It can take hits from ninetales after a nasty plot especially with a sp def set or av. 252+ Atk Throh Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 120 Def Eviolite Roselia: 152-180 (50 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock. it can crush barbacle and carracosta:+2 252 Atk Life Orb Carracosta Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Throh: 341-403 (76.8 - 90.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, and can circle throw it out or if sturdy is broken:252+ Atk Throh Storm Throw vs. -1 4 HP / 0 Def Carracosta on a critical hit: 320-378 (110.3 - 130.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO.
Click to expand...
A couple of things:
  1. You can't just throw in a bunch of calcs to make an argument for a raise/drop. You need to say how it fits in with the current A+ Pokemon better than the A Pokemon and how it has been effective in the current metagame (you did that kind of, but it was kind of hard to read the post, which brings up my next point).
  2. When posting calcs especially, please divide them into lines or paragraphs next time. There was just so much going on in that paragraph and it was hard to read.
  3. Throh does not counter Musharna by any means. Your calc not only does not factor in defensive Musharna (252+ Atk Throh Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Musharna: 156-184 (35.7 - 42.2%) -- 89.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery), but it also does not take into account that Knock Off's BP drops to 65 when the item is knocked off, therefore making a 3HKO instead of a 2HKO. (252+ Atk Throh Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Musharna: 148-176 (33.9 - 40.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO) - You need to be super lucky to get maximum damage on both Knock Offs.
  4. I don't know what you're trying to say about the Scyther matchup because: 252 Atk Choice Band Technician Scyther Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Throh: 450-530 (101.3 - 119.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO. Sure, Scyther can't switch in, but Scyther doesn't switch into much unless it's an Eviolite variant.
  5. When Throh has no recovery with an Assault Vest, it is difficult to survive throughout the entire match to check these Pokemon. It is much better off with Rest or Bulk Up sets.
 
wsdfg said:
Serperior from A- to A. YES. It is very viable on both the special and physical side making for an excellent setup sweeper. I honestly think it should be A+
Poliwrath from A+ to S If musharana is banned I think it should but if not, definitely no.
Golem from A to A+yes. It can put on a ton of pressure and has a guaranteed stealth rocks due to sturdy.
ninetales from A to A+ it is a perfect fast wallbreaker so hell yes.
Bunnelby Unlisted to B-. It has a niche as a monstorous band user with sticky web up as well as performing well as a scarfed user. 252 Atk Choice Band Huge Power Bunnelby U-turn vs. 252 HP / 4+ Def Musharna: 226-268 (51.8 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery. Hell even physically defensive musharana struggles-252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Bunnelby U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Musharna: 192-228 (44 - 52.2%) -- 75.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery. Even piloswine gets hurt. 252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Bunnelby Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Piloswine: 145-172 (35.8 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
It does need a ghost type to block spins so it can keep up the sticky web
Meditite from unlisted to C. It is decently fast with a scarf and can fufill the same niche as bunnelby, with the down sides of more unreliable stabs, and no u-turn. It is also completly walled by musharana. However it does have fake out
Finally gourgeist s and xl from A- to A. They both have a huge variety of support moves such as leech seed and will-o-wisp and of course d bond for small. They can both run a viable band set as well.
Click to expand...
Bunnelby is garbage and does not deserve a place on the viability rankings. Bouffalant outclasses it entirely, being only a wee bit slower (and the extra 2 points Bunnelby has in speed don't even matter) and in theory Bunnelby is stronger, but Bouffalant has a stronger STAB in Head Charge, making it effectively stronger than Bunnelby (not to mention Bouffalant gets more coverage to work with). In addition to that, Bouff has abilities that give it either an immunity to Grass or an even stronger Head Charge. And I didn't even mention the fact that Bunnelby has no bulk and can't switch in on anything, whereas Bouffalant has a ton of bulk. The only "niche" Bunnelby has is that it gets U-Turn and that is not enough of a niche to justify a spot on the viability rankings.

Meditite is shit too but maybe has a tiny niche somewhere, I haven't seen it being used effectively thus far though so we're not gonna rank it until multiple people who have a good deal of tier experience can attest to its viability.

Anyway while I'm at it I might as well chime in:
Poliwrath to S. Almost unmissable in the current meta, and can be adapted to your team style pretty efficiently, with RestTalk being hard as hell to break on more defensive teams and SubPunch being suited for a more offensive role. Its set of resistances is just too good in this meta, being able to successfully cockblock Sneasel, Carracosta, Barbaracle, Golem, Marowak, Piloswine and so much more in one slot is amazing.

Golem stays where it is. Your best bet for a suicide Stealth Rocks mon, but the thing is that that niche isn't that great rn, what with a) Defog being very easy to pull off with Togetic, Pelipper & friends and b) Other Stealth Rockers, aside from providing more longevity, also being able to check a lot of things that are dangerous to offensive teams (Piloswine, for example, can cockblock most Electric-types with ease, which would otherwise destroy many offensive teams with their speed and Volt Switching shenanigans). Golem is good, but the meta isn't that kind to suicide hazards atm so it shouldn't rise any further.

Piloswine should rise to A+. Provides a great defensive backbone for offense and balance, one of the most reliable SR setters out there, great matchup vs common leads and has an excellent set of resistances, as well as the aforementioned Electric immunity. Hits very hard too, and priority is a godsend.

Bouffalant to A. Extremely scary to switch into due to its great power, and SubSD sets can get around Ghost-types that wall the banded set if Bouff runs Stone Edge (most Ghosts fail to break its Subs and Haunter is too frail to take a Stone Edge). Puts a huge amount of pressure on any team once it gets in, and it's not easy to KO either due to its excellent bulk.

fuck chatot

Kadabra is fine where it is. It's fast, but any offensive team has at least two mons that outspeed it and it can't take a single hit unless it runs Sash, in which case it doesn't hit very hard and is easily walled by more defensive teams. It's a good mon, but very flawed. The fact that the best offensive mon in the meta destroys it doesn't help its case.

Rotom-F should rise to A. One of the best scarfers out there, but it gets really scary when it turns out to be SubSplit or a bulky W-o-W set. Always hard to deal with, especially for defensive teams.

yea serp to a

Huntail should probably drop, I haven't seen it a lot and I haven't really seen it work thus far. Potentially really scary, but until I see it being executed to huge success it shouldn't be A-. It is hurt the most by the fact that Poliwrath always gets a safe switchin vs it, so when you have Poli on your team, you switch it in and on the BP you Circle Throw/Sub. Plenty of good phazers in the tier in general.

don't care about some of these

Misdreavus to A-. Arguably the best spinblocker out there, a fast Taunt is godlike, excellent anti-lead because of that, isn't bound to a single set either. Knock Off weakness and being worn down fast hurt it, but not enough to keep it in B+. It's an excellent mon that can break stall and annoy offense very easily.

Haven't seen a Gogoat in ages so drop it I guess

Torterra should move up straight to A, really. Its set of resistances is great, easily destroying the likes of Golem and Marowak. Very reliable as an SR setter, very strong as a CB user, great lategame sweeper with Rock Polish. Its versatility, bulk and power make it better than the average A- mon imo.

Drop Camerupt to B- lmao. It's cool for being able to have something that cockblocks Fires and Electrics in one teamslot, but I tried it recently and honestly, this thing is just too damn frail. Anything strong that isn't resisted will do a huge chunk to it, which isn't what's supposed to happen when the only role you can really fulfill is that of a tank. Can't set SR reliably multiple times because of that, it has a disgustingly bad matchup vs every SR setter in the tier, gets shit on by every Defogger. Specs sounds decent, but still not enough to justify the higher B ranks.

Zweilous can move up to like C+ or something, not that great but has unmatched power and it's way way better than garbage like Paraect and Seviper.

Klang to B. Not the best sweeper out there, but its bulk is fucking immense, so it can easily rack up boosts lategame and destroy offensive teams.

Drop Sliggoo to C or something. As a special wall with Dragon typing I'd rather use Altaria because, you know, reliable recovery and actual utility, and Sliggoo seems out of place in B- together with mons that all have a unique niche. Sliggoo is not strong enough to be a successful tank, either. Dunno who said it should rise but I'd rather see it drop.

no opinion on Murkrow

Natu can rise to C- or something. Has a discernible niche, although it still is a shitty mon otherwise and loses to every SR setter.

Dusknoir to C+. Not amazing, but decent as a bulky ghost with offensive presence I suppose.

My own proposals:

Kingler down to C/C+. Not bad or anything, but overshadowed by Carracosta and Barbaracle as a sweeper. I find it hard to justify its usage. C rank is for mons like that.

Solrock to B-/B rank. Used this thing myself and was susprised at how good it really was. Rocks setter that entirely cockblocks any Tauros set and SubSD Bouffalant, and it has access to neat shit like W-o-W, Morning Sun and Explosion. Also has a great matchup vs a couple of common SR setters, in particular Piloswine (Solrock is one of the few in that regard, most SR leads lose vs Pilo ez)

Mini hippo to same rank as Stoutland because they need each other to be worth running on a team anyway.

Ariados down to like D rank or something because why the fuck should I run this over Kricketune or Leavanny or even Masquerain? Maybe we should move Masquerain down too btw, simply overshadowed by Kricketune and Leavanny.

There's more probably but meh
 
A lot of people keep saying that Hippo and Stoutland need to be the same rank, and I entirely disagree. Hippo is a bulky rocks setter with recovery and phazing, and it also happens to provide sand for Stoutland. That's all it can do. Stoutland has some extremely underrated sets other than sand sweeper though. It can be a bulky offensive intimidate mon that can force out stuff like Sneasel, but its best other set is scrappy band, which gets unresisted coverage in return+ superpower, as well as other options like retaliate, crunch, play rough, wild charge, etc., making it arguably better than Bouffalant at a banded set, plus faster. It might not seem like much, but it's a definite niche, enough to put him in B+ over Hippo's B.
 
Bippy said:
A lot of people keep saying that Hippo and Stoutland need to be the same rank, and I entirely disagree. Hippo is a bulky rocks setter with recovery and phazing, and it also happens to provide sand for Stoutland. That's all it can do. Stoutland has some extremely underrated sets other than sand sweeper though. It can be a bulky offensive intimidate mon that can force out stuff like Sneasel, but its best other set is scrappy band, which gets unresisted coverage in return+ superpower, as well as other options like retaliate, crunch, play rough, wild charge, etc., making it arguably better than Bouffalant at a banded set, plus faster. It might not seem like much, but it's a definite niche, enough to put him in B+ over Hippo's B.
Click to expand...
The problem is that it is entirely outclassed by Tauros and Bouff, who can fullfill the same rolls as Stoutland except better. Scrappy is alright, but tbh there really arent that many Ghost-types in the tier (4 including Shedinja lol), and nothing that a prediction and a Crunch cant handle. The reason they should be the same rank is cause Hippo and Stoutland should always be used on the same team together. Its like Hitmonchan in RU, it isnt a bad Pokemon, its just entirely outclassed by Hitmonlee in w/e it wants to do, its the same situation with Stoutland.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top