Other ORAS Mega Speculation Thread (NO talk about potential bans NOR Aegislash)

[Pyritie]

The problem is, IIRC Cloud Nine doesn't stop the rain except while it is active. It's not like Air Lock, which kills weather altogether. You'll get one turn of outspeeding Swampert when you evolve, then the next will be back to rain and Swift Swim.

I'd much rather have Natural Cure - this way Altaria can do things like safely switch into bulky waters without fearing Scald burns.

Yeah, this. It stops all weather effects, but not the weather itself. You could come in on a sand rush excadrill using EQ or something, keep cloud nine while you fire blast it (assuming you have speed investment and aren't using a fully bulky set), then mega afterwards

 

[Josh Morales]

Please never refer to it as "Pedo" again.

This is why I refer to it as Pedo xD

Yeah Mega Sharpedo seems pretty underwhelming. You still can't break past stuff like Mega Venusaur (LO Normal Sharpedo's Zen Headbutt is stronger and it can't 2HKO unless Rocks are up) and Keldeo (needs SR for a tiny chance to OHKO if vanilla) and relying on Protect for a Speed Boost is really predictable. You can't really afford to run Adamant since you still get outsped by Scarfers after your boost, plus if you're forced out for any reason you don't really get a second chance to clean.

Perhaps it would be a good idea to come in with normal Pedo (Imma say what I want :P) against something that can't do much to you and not protect first turn and go for Waterfall, Crunch, or w/e first turn because, as you said, protect is very predictable and so people normally try to exploit protect by switching or w/e and thus you pick an appropriate move to hit what will likely come in and then protect on the second turn you're in battle for a second speed boost and at that point you only have to worry about priority. Obviously you would only need to do this if the enemy has a Choice Scarfer and you intend to clean up, but I think you're wrong in saying that you can't afford to use Adamant since Choice Scarfers outspeed at +1 since it's definitely not the hardest thing in the world to get +2. I think all it means is that your clean-up is just a little bit belated.

 

[kiloments]

I certainly wouldn't want to take an EQ after +1. Just my opinion, I'd prefer to use something like Ferrothorn if you're looking for the best check, as long as Mence doesn't have Fire Blast, which I haven't seen too often, surprisingly.

Ferrothorn can't even properly check mence either. If it's sub/roost/dd/return, ferro becomes a liability. You literally have to run several checks to scout and attempt to beat it and even then risk losing to other mons and your team is probably severely weakened.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

Cloud Nine on Altaria means it can switch in to Y-zard without any SDef investment.

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Altaria: 100-118 (28.3 - 33.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Altaria in Sun: 150-177 (42.4 - 50.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

So you can have a physically defensive or even just bulky offensive Altaria be able to combat Y-zard, only problem is that it's really passive as no Pixilate on Voice/Return and 70/70 offenses so it would need to run Toxic to beat Y-zard.

 

[kiloments]

Cloud Nine on Altaria means it can switch in to Y-zard without any SDef investment.

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Altaria: 100-118 (28.3 - 33.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Altaria in Sun: 150-177 (42.4 - 50.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

So you can have a physically defensive or even just bulky offensive Altaria be able to combat Y-zard, only problem is that it's really passive as no Pixilate on Voice/Return and 70/70 offenses so it would need to run Toxic to beat Y-zard.

I don't know exactly how cloud nine works but does the sun reappear after mega evolving for the full 5 turns or for the remaining turns left?

 

[Kurona]

I don't know exactly how cloud nine works but does the sun reappear after mega evolving for the full 5 turns or for the remaining turns left?

The weather doesn't disappear; it's effects simply won't work when Cloud Nine/Air Lock are in play.

Would Scizor be a good partner for Beedrill? Defog, U-turn combo, good power and defensive synergy?

 

[Jaroda]

So having been browsing the ORAS Mega Doc, I've found a noticeable lack of pre-mega abilities. So I'm just gonna compile them, m'k?

Slowbro - Oblivious/Own Tempo/Regenerator
Regen fo sure. Lets you play mind games with your opponent and gives utility in not megaevolving right away.

I'd highly recommend considering Oblivious instead actually. An opponent that wastes a turn trying to Taunt you as you set up free Calm Minds or Thunder Waves can easily lead to their defeat.

Someone mentioned Megagross recently. His bulk is indeed fantastic, his issue is that he is missing the right boosting moves and/or recovery. Because his STAB attack's typing and BP are abysmally low. While he's certifiably tough, he's also not hitting anywhere near as hard as other mega's who have comparable offensive stats but much better STAB moves like Sceptile's Leaf Storm, Lopunny's HJK, Altaria's Return/Hyper Voice, etc.

I've mainly used the max speed Jolly sets. The speed is nice, but they are floundering against the DD users. The mistake is trying to sweep with him. The speedy set makes him a great bulky pivot, but not bulky enough. I'm still experimenting with sets.

The weather doesn't disappear; it's effects simply won't work when Cloud Nine/Air Lock are in play.

Would Scizor be a good partner for Beedrill? Defog, U-turn combo, good power and defensive synergy?

That combo has Talonflame issues.

 

[Josh Morales]

What are good teammates for Bulky DD Mega Altaria?

i.e. DD Facade Earthquake Roost

 

[Hogg]

Meteor Mash has abysmally low BP? I know the typing isn't the best, but with Tough Claws that thing hits hard. It did ~80% to my bulky 240 HP Azumarill (which put it into KO range from Bullet Punch), while 252+ Knock Off only did 40% in return.

 

[Wargreymon]

Meteor mash is not abysmally low, but yeah important coverage moves like ice punch or thunder punch are. I guess you can say meteor mash is low compared to some other nuclear STAB moves like gallades CC, and that 90% accuracy sure sucks. Not really bothered though, MM is still powerful and if it was any higher than 90 then mega metagross would probably be a little overpowered.

So far with metagross I really haven't gotten the OP vibe at all. It's really strong but it just seems like a really solid top tier threat, nothing that the meta won't be able to handle or adapt to. This is just from my experience playing against it as I haven't actually used it much myself. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Jaroda]

Certainly low in comparison like the examples I mentioned with BP of 110 and up. The other thing is that offensively Steel is still poor. Many key types resist it like Fire, Water and Steel. You'll very rarely hit something for SE damage and for a BP move of 90 that's not hard enough. You really can't get by with his two STABs, you gotta spring for the SE coverage, because he also doesn't have the best boosting moves to simply bulldoze through enemies with neutral hits, unlike Megamence's Return.

 

[Josh Morales]

I hate it when people hate just to hate and thus the make a mega seem WAY worse than it really is. For example in the case of a pokemon whose main STAB is 80 BP they'll say it relies on low BP moves lmao. 80 BP is average, mk?

"Low in comparison to 110"

No fucking shit lol, 110 is a high BP. Low is a very subjective and relative term and it annoys me when someone's spectrum of BP is 80 - 130. You need to see the bigger picture, the attacking moves that are commonly used range from 40 - 130. There are multiple Pokemon that rely on "weak" Priority moves to outspeed faster Pokemon and they're considered top-tier.

 

[Sgt. Stardust]

The only megas I've used so far are Sceptile and Beedril. Used a fully special Sceptile set. I don't think its gonna be a metagame defining threat or anything, but its a solid poke that outspeeds everything and hits hard. Only problem is that you can't check Greninja until you mega evolve.

I knew Beedrill was overhyped, but it looked like a fun mon to use so I gave it a shot. It's unusable without protect, can't take a hit, it can't mega evolve on anything. It needs defog/rapid spin+Magnezone support. But I mean the thing hits like a tank and is blazing fast, and despite all the support it needs its still usable. Probably not worth the mega slot on most teams but it's not hopeless.

 

[Nochman.EXE]

So, I haven't had much of a chance to mess around on the ORAS OU ladder, but I've been trying out Mega-Aerodactyl as an anti-meta pokemon to handle the new Megas. It has been working fairly well - it outspeeds all of them, and its STABs net easy OHKOs on Beedrill, Lopunny, Gallade, Pidgeot (yay No Guard Stone Edge!), Sceptile and Glalie. It also has a pretty good chance of OHKOing Sharpedo if rocks are up, and deals solid damage to Salamence (though not as much as I'd like - with Intimidate, Jolly Mega-Aero deals ~60% damage, so it misses the OHKO even after rocks).

Mega-Slowbro hasn't seemed like as much of a problem as I'd expected, although I've only actually faced it once in the handful of battles I've played - most of that impression is based off of watching battles. It's still scary, but not overwhelming.

Most of the Mega-Swampert teams I've seen have been trying out full rain teams. That's alright, I suppose, but it's pretty easy to dismantle. I think a smaller rain core on top of a bulky offensive team will actually be scarier for Pert.

Megagross, on the other hand, has really surpassed my expectations. It does good work in every single battle I've seen it used. That bulk is really what carries it.

Pidgeot still seems pretty garbage in OU, but maybe I just haven't seen anyone use it well.



LO Sharp isn't actually stronger than Mega-Sharp when you take Strong Jaw into account:

252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 152-179 (34.2 - 40.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 195-229 (43.9 - 51.5%) -- 8.6% chance to 2HKO

I still don't think it's worth a mega slot, especially since it's not a big enough damage boost to sweep on its own, and it's still fragile enough to be forced out by priority or bulky attackers (after which point it loses Speed Boost). But it's definitely stronger than standard Sharp, especially now that it can comfortably run Ice Fang over Ice Beam. Waterfall is obviously weaker, but Crunch is a far more spammable move anyhow.

Oh, thx for clarifying that. But yea, the damage is so minimal and unnoticeable that I still don't think it's worth using. Also, this is limited only to Moves that are boosted by Strong Jaw, and running a Mixed Set to slam Lando-T's who hope to Intimidate your Ice Fang sounds like a better plan to me...

 

[lightningsnowstorm]

I hate it when people hate just to hate and thus the make a mega seem WAY worse than it really is. For example in the case of a pokemon whose main STAB is 80 BP they'll say it relies on low BP moves lmao. 80 BP is average, mk?

"Low in comparison to 110"

No fucking shit lol, 110 is a high BP. Low is a very subjective and relative term and it annoys me when someone's spectrum of BP is 80 - 130. You need to see the bigger picture, the attacking moves that are commonly used range from 40 - 130. There are multiple Pokemon that rely on "weak" Priority moves to outspeed faster Pokemon and they're considered top-tier.

I assume you're talking about beedrill?

 

[Bombkirby]

The only megas I've used so far are Sceptile and Beedril. Used a fully special Sceptile set. I don't think its gonna be a metagame defining threat or anything, but its a solid poke that outspeeds everything and hits hard. Only problem is that you can't check Greninja until you mega evolve.

I knew Beedrill was overhyped, but it looked like a fun mon to use so I gave it a shot. It's unusable without protect, can't take a hit, it can't mega evolve on anything. It needs defog/rapid spin+Magnezone support. But I mean the thing hits like a tank and is blazing fast, and despite all the support it needs its still usable. Probably not worth the mega slot on most teams but it's not hopeless.

Put up screens using klefki/meowstick/prankster user/etc whatever, or have a partner who can spore and then switch the bee in, or paralyze most of the enemy team or use sticky web so the bee is faster than most of the enemy threats so it can kill before it gets killed when it mega evolves, burn the enemy so they cannot OHKO it or something, baton pass a sub to it, etc. There are many ways to help it mega evolve without protect. Once it is fast enough to hold its own in its mega form protect has very limited use and it can just Uturn and avoid getting hit by anything at all.

It needs support. I personally wouldn't waste a valuable slot on protect when several Pokemon I keep in my PC/notepad document can easily help give it that one free turn it needs.

 

[Vengeance417]

The only megas I've used so far are Sceptile and Beedril. Used a fully special Sceptile set. I don't think its gonna be a metagame defining threat or anything, but its a solid poke that outspeeds everything and hits hard. Only problem is that you can't check Greninja until you mega evolve.

I knew Beedrill was overhyped, but it looked like a fun mon to use so I gave it a shot. It's unusable without protect, can't take a hit, it can't mega evolve on anything. It needs defog/rapid spin+Magnezone support. But I mean the thing hits like a tank and is blazing fast, and despite all the support it needs its still usable. Probably not worth the mega slot on most teams but it's not hopeless.

After giving Mega Beedrill a few chances myself, I too found that you have to run Protect on it, which limits its coverage severely. You would have to either choose Drill Run to hit Steels or Knock Off because...Knock Off.

I think it'll be UU at best. It's one of the few Megas in OU atm that requires A LOT of support to make any progress with it. Skarmory, Rhyperior and other physically bulky mons need to be dealt with, hazards must go and Bisharp and Talonflame need to die before you even think of using it.

 

[eden]

why not run Earthquake on mega sceptile? It not like ou need massive investment ot OHKO Heatran after EQ! To me a mixed Sceptile sounds pretty awesome actually. Focus Punch/Giga Dran or Leaf Storm/HP:Fire/Earthquake predict and reap the rewards!

 

[Wargreymon]

I hate it when people hate just to hate and thus the make a mega seem WAY worse than it really is. For example in the case of a pokemon whose main STAB is 80 BP they'll say it relies on low BP moves lmao. 80 BP is average, mk?

"Low in comparison to 110"

No fucking shit lol, 110 is a high BP. Low is a very subjective and relative term and it annoys me when someone's spectrum of BP is 80 - 130. You need to see the bigger picture, the attacking moves that are commonly used range from 40 - 130. There are multiple Pokemon that rely on "weak" Priority moves to outspeed faster Pokemon and they're considered top-tier.

Low isn't a subjective term here. Coverage moves and priority moves get the benefit of the doubt, but when a pokemon's main attacking STAB is 80, that is low.
As far as metagross is concerned, it's STABs have low BP when compared to other powerhouse mega's. It's totally acceptable to say they're low. Also, to make matters worse (I know this is unrelated to your point, I'm just saying) neither of them are 100% accurate which fucking sucks.

 

[Jaroda]

I hate it when people hate just to hate and thus the make a mega seem WAY worse than it really is. For example in the case of a pokemon whose main STAB is 80 BP they'll say it relies on low BP moves lmao. 80 BP is average, mk?

"Low in comparison to 110"

No fucking shit lol, 110 is a high BP. Low is a very subjective and relative term and it annoys me when someone's spectrum of BP is 80 - 130. You need to see the bigger picture, the attacking moves that are commonly used range from 40 - 130. There are multiple Pokemon that rely on "weak" Priority moves to outspeed faster Pokemon and they're considered top-tier.

...?

Chill bro. Who is hating?

"Low in comparison to 110"

"Low is a very subjective and relative term!"

Um... yeah, it is. See that sentence you quoted me saying? That was me relating it to other megas' high BP STABs. Like it or not, it is a con for Megagross. The relatively low BP of his STABs, coupled with their poor offensive coverage, hinders his offensive performance. This is the entire opposite of, say, Lopunny, who has unresisted STABs, both with BP over 100. You can criticize something you like you know? And I like Megagross. I'm still trying to find a best set with him.

 

[eden]

Can anybody even tell me how you can play around Gunk Shot Greninja? It's too much of a toss atm. Only the blobs I think totally stop it. Clefable and Azumarril get rekt. So what's left to do? Greninja is definately an S-Rank threat atm. Extremespeed Dragonite will be in Vogue again with CB obviously to keep this thing in check. But its broken as hell. And don't bring up obscure lame counters like Registeel. Talk about OU viable stuff please

 

[Hogg]

Fun fact: against a neutral target, 252+ Megagross Meteor Mash deals almost as much as 252+ MegaLop HJK, and a good bit more than its Return.

I know it's only semi-relevant, because MegaLop's STABs have way better coverage thanks to Scrappy, but it gives you a good idea of the power of Tough Claws MM despite its much lower BP.

252+ Atk Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Grass: 205-243 (46.2 - 54.8%) -- 61.3% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Tough Claws Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Grass: 199-235 (44.9 - 53%) -- 29.7% chance to 2HKO

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

Can anybody even tell me how you can play around Gunk Shot Greninja? It's too much of a toss atm. Only the blobs I think totally stop it. Clefable and Azumarril get rekt. So what's left to do? Greninja is definately an S-Rank threat atm. Extremespeed Dragonite will be in Vogue again with CB obviously to keep this thing in check. But its broken as hell. And don't bring up obscure lame counters like Registeel. Talk about OU viable stuff please

Empoleon checks Greninja pretty well.

Unless it has Low Kick :<

 

[Siggu]

Low isn't a subjective term here. Coverage moves and priority moves get the benefit of the doubt, but when a pokemon's main attacking STAB is 80, that is low.

Well, it's technically 104 thanks to Tough Claws. It's marginally stronger than a non -ate Return, which is something. But it has worse coverage and accuracy so it ends up being worse IMO.

 

[Stef0w]

Can anybody even tell me how you can play around Gunk Shot Greninja? It's too much of a toss atm. Only the blobs I think totally stop it. Clefable and Azumarril get rekt. So what's left to do? Greninja is definately an S-Rank threat atm. Extremespeed Dragonite will be in Vogue again with CB obviously to keep this thing in check. But its broken as hell. And don't bring up obscure lame counters like Registeel. Talk about OU viable stuff please

Shouldnt this go in the move-tutor thread?

It's weird, cause I assumed Greninja was gonna get worse, due to the insane speed-creep going on with all those mega's, and ninja hating to use choice items.