Exactly and both moves might do more damage against either physicaly or specially defensive pokemon. Plus Waterfall does have a nifty chance to flinch, more PP, and has more reliable accuracy. I still think they should have put that increase in special attack into it's attack. But Hey what do I know?
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Other ORAS Mega Speculation Thread (NO talk about potential bans NOR Aegislash)
- Thread starter Aragorn the King
- Start date
- Status
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 129-153 (38.6 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
nope, still totally outclassed by mega gyara
Mega gyarados is better for balanced teams. It brings good support options, has good set up moves, and good coverage.
Mega sharpedo is a cleaner/sweeper. Once he gets a speed boost and has any hard resists taken out of the way, you'll be hard pressed to stop him.
People get lazy when comparing mons.
Just because both are water dark and are offensively oriented does not mean they have the same role.
I wouldnt wait till late game to bring in mega gyarados when he can contribute so much more throughout the match and I'd be similarly stupid to bring in mSharpedo early because he gets one maybe two shots to blast a hole in a team.
Both have waterfall, ice fang earthquake and until recently, only sharpedo had crunch.
Sharpedo also has a better special stat and the moves to use it.
It also has strong jaws to boost its power and while it doesnt have dragon dance, if you're using it right, you don't need it....
Mega sharpedo is a cleaner/sweeper. Once he gets a speed boost and has any hard resists taken out of the way, you'll be hard pressed to stop him.
People get lazy when comparing mons.
Just because both are water dark and are offensively oriented does not mean they have the same role.
I wouldnt wait till late game to bring in mega gyarados when he can contribute so much more throughout the match and I'd be similarly stupid to bring in mSharpedo early because he gets one maybe two shots to blast a hole in a team.
Both have waterfall, ice fang earthquake and until recently, only sharpedo had crunch.
Sharpedo also has a better special stat and the moves to use it.
It also has strong jaws to boost its power and while it doesnt have dragon dance, if you're using it right, you don't need it....
plus sharpedo could probably take it out with hydro pump as well along with other physical walls we have discussed earlier such as skarmory. And yes i know I said I don't like mixed sets but the option to use a special attack (along with the moves to support it) and a higher speed stat make it different enough from mega gyarados to not be outclassed. Plus gyarados has a stealth rock weakness in it's normal form and sharpedo doesn't.
M-Gyarados is for the most part better because it hits like a truck and doesn't have to rely on an ability to do the majority of its damage, unlike M-Sharpedo. M-Sharpedo does have the advantage of running more reliable mixed sets, has speed boost prior to evo and in tandem with its ability has a very strong STAB move with Crunch. However, Gyarados has more bulk, a bit more consistency even with the fact it's a pretty linear mon, has a solid way to get past its former checks such as Slowbro, takes out things like the Latis much more consistently with Crunch now (cause screw Ice Fang misses), and Mold Breaker on top of all of this. Considering the speed creep and the amount of hard hitters I'd more than likely go with M-Gyarados over M-Sharpedo between those two if it was me.
man can you guys not ignore things blatantly -.-
Mega Gyarados and Mega Sharpedo share a typing and STABs. That's it. Besides that, there are some clear advantages to Mega Sharpedo that many people are missing. First of all, Strong Jaw Crunch has a significant power advantage over Mega Gyara's Crunch. This allows it to do significant damage to switch-ins like Rotom-W and Ferrothorn that Mega Gyarados cannot deal with as effectively because it needs a boost to achieve this level of damage, giving these Pokemon a crucial free turn. Furthermore, so long as it hasn't Mega Evolved yet, Sharpedo can obtain a guaranteed boost to its Speed thanks to Protect + Speed Boost, while Mega Gyarados requires a turn to take a hit or force something out and then get a boost. Mega Sharpedo also actually has room for a move like Ice Fang, for example, which allows it to OHKO Mega Salamence and deal heavy damage to Mega Altaria, while Mega Gyarados is pretty much pigeonholed into running DD / Sub / Waterfall / Crunch to function effectively.
Obviously Gyarados's versatility of setting up and sweeping with Attack boosts, useful typing before Mega Evolving, and bulk are points worthy of note. These are what make it an effective Dragon Dance sweeper, though eclipsed in many aspects I would say by Mega Altaria as well as the obvious Mega Salamence. However, ignoring the benefits and strengths Mega Sharpedo brings to the table with sweeping generalizations and dismissive statements is just silly.
Mega Gyarados and Mega Sharpedo share a typing and STABs. That's it. Besides that, there are some clear advantages to Mega Sharpedo that many people are missing. First of all, Strong Jaw Crunch has a significant power advantage over Mega Gyara's Crunch. This allows it to do significant damage to switch-ins like Rotom-W and Ferrothorn that Mega Gyarados cannot deal with as effectively because it needs a boost to achieve this level of damage, giving these Pokemon a crucial free turn. Furthermore, so long as it hasn't Mega Evolved yet, Sharpedo can obtain a guaranteed boost to its Speed thanks to Protect + Speed Boost, while Mega Gyarados requires a turn to take a hit or force something out and then get a boost. Mega Sharpedo also actually has room for a move like Ice Fang, for example, which allows it to OHKO Mega Salamence and deal heavy damage to Mega Altaria, while Mega Gyarados is pretty much pigeonholed into running DD / Sub / Waterfall / Crunch to function effectively.
Obviously Gyarados's versatility of setting up and sweeping with Attack boosts, useful typing before Mega Evolving, and bulk are points worthy of note. These are what make it an effective Dragon Dance sweeper, though eclipsed in many aspects I would say by Mega Altaria as well as the obvious Mega Salamence. However, ignoring the benefits and strengths Mega Sharpedo brings to the table with sweeping generalizations and dismissive statements is just silly.
It's pre-mega typing and much higher bulk allows it to switch in on much more moves than sharpedo. Also, Sharpedo doesn't have a way to boost his stats outspeed of his pre-mega speed boost, where Gyarados can Dragon Dance. After M-Sharpedo mega evolved, he can't boost his speed anymore where M-Gyarados can just Dragon Dance. Sharpedo also needs a moveslot for Protect for a speed boost and save mega-evolution. After 1 DD Mega-Gyarados Crunch hits harder than M-Sharpedo's, even with the Strong Jaw boost. M-Gyarados can also, however uncommon (Gyarados was #36 in september, where most where mega) use its non-mega form with Sub-DD-Bounce-Waterfall where Sharpedo's base form just sucks so when Sharpedo is on the field you know for sure it is mega. If you for example also have Scizor on the field, it is good to know it is not a mega, where with M-Gyarados both Gyarados and Scizor could be mega. IMO Earthquake is better coverage than Sharpedo's Ice Fang. The strongest resister for EQ + Waterfall + Crunch is Chesnaught, where Azumarill, Greninja and Keldeo are a few who resist Crunch + Waterfall + Ice Fang. Gyarados much higher bulk means it doesn't die to any priority (M-Gyara only takes 60% from a banded Talonflame BB where M-Sharpedo takes 120%) That means revenge killing is much harder, also remembering Gyarados can boost its speed more than once, where Sharpedo can't. Adamant Sharpedo at +1 is at 462, where a +2 M-Gyara is at 522, only being outspeed by scarfed Gengar, Latios and higher speed. One of the few disadvantages of M-Gyara is that it is outsped by Scarfed Lando-T at +1, where Sharpedo isn't. However, EQ does 45% max and waterfall at +0 (intimidate) 2HKO's. So M-Gyara pretty much loses against Scarfed Lando-T because U-Turn and Intimidate switch ins hurt him (however, Sharpedo also struggles against Lando-T when it is not weakened) M-Sharpedo can go mixed better than M-Gyara as M-Gyara's SpA is very low where M-Sharpedo's is decent. Running Hydro Pump or Ice Beam to kill things like Skarmory is nice and that is definitely a niche over M-Gyara
Thank you that is what i've been trying to get across for the past couple of hours. Also I would disagree about Mega alt. eclipsing mega gyara since mega gyara has higher attack, speed, special and physical bulk (if it can drop the attack stat with intimidate that is), and the ability to get past unaware but ill respect your judgement.
Does earthquake actually let Mega Latios get around Tyranitar though? A scarfed Tar gets basically a OHKO on hasty Mega Latios with crunch, whereas earthquake is only a 2HKO (25% chance of OHKO with a DD). And non-scarfed Tar tends to be bulkier. Or were you talking about switch-ins?
252 Atk Mega Latios Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tyranitar: 202-238 (59.2 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Mega Latios Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tyranitar: 300-354 (87.9 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Mega Latios: 300-354 (99.6 - 117.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
Forgive my armchair player ignorance. I'd love to dust off my hasty Latios from way back when and build a team around him, but I haven't seen any M-Latios replays so still skeptical about how good he is.
OTOH I can't wait to actually try out M-Altaria and M-Slowbro. ORAS can't come soon enough.
Mega beedrill unfortunately has to take up valuable moveslot in order to use protect which hinders it's offensive prowess a lot. You will have to now chose between knock off and drill run plus it's too frail to take common priority takes. It also has a stealth rock weakness meaning U-turning is going to be impossible without proper rapid spin support. However, mega beedrill does have a lot of positive attributes that outweigh the negatives and just the thought of beedrill being competitively viable blows me away. Use beedrill well and you will not be dissapointed. Use it poorly and u have a waste of a mega slot.
Camerupt I still stand by what I said about it's 4x weakness hindering it and facing stiff competition from Zard Y for a mega slot, the ability to check the pokemon u stated early does give it a pretty good niche and if you can put this thing under trick room it can wreck house.
And yea I was getting so sick of seeing posts that mega sharpedo was outclassed mega gyara.
Favorable Megas
Salamence
Metagross
Altaria
Sceptile
Swampert
Lopunny
Slowbro
Gallade
Latias
Sableye
Overlooked/Disputed Megas
Diancie
Latios
Camerupt
Sharpedo
Pidgeot
Beedrill
Unfavorable Megas
Audino
Glalie
Steelix
This is what I've noticed. The first group seems to get near universal praise and seem to agree that they have a definitive niche in the future OU metagame. Opinions range from a noteworthy threat to outright centralizing. These are the pokes you EV your own mon accordingly to.
The central group consists of pokemon disputed for their inconsistent performance, underestimated, or simply not even really acknowledged. I see virtually zero discussion on Latios, Pidgeot or Diancie. Nobody seems to be claiming they can't perform well, but they are certainly overshadowed. Based on movepool and stats however I think its pretty hard to think outside of the box for Pidgeot and Beedrill however.
The final group virtually nobody are singing praises for. Nearly universally acknowledged as utterly outclassed and performance in the OU meta is very dubious currently.
I think if you want to get good discussion going, we should focus on the latter two groups.
Salamence
Metagross
Altaria
Sceptile
Swampert
Lopunny
Slowbro
Gallade
Latias
Sableye
Overlooked/Disputed Megas
Diancie
Latios
Camerupt
Sharpedo
Pidgeot
Beedrill
Unfavorable Megas
Audino
Glalie
Steelix
This is what I've noticed. The first group seems to get near universal praise and seem to agree that they have a definitive niche in the future OU metagame. Opinions range from a noteworthy threat to outright centralizing. These are the pokes you EV your own mon accordingly to.
The central group consists of pokemon disputed for their inconsistent performance, underestimated, or simply not even really acknowledged. I see virtually zero discussion on Latios, Pidgeot or Diancie. Nobody seems to be claiming they can't perform well, but they are certainly overshadowed. Based on movepool and stats however I think its pretty hard to think outside of the box for Pidgeot and Beedrill however.
The final group virtually nobody are singing praises for. Nearly universally acknowledged as utterly outclassed and performance in the OU meta is very dubious currently.
I think if you want to get good discussion going, we should focus on the latter two groups.
glalie needs to move up a notch. it simply isnt on the level of garbage that audino is. not only is ice a hilariously broken STAB(its almost as good, if not as good, as ghost offensively) it has earthquake. that means heatran cant switch in with impunity. it also has ice shard, which allows it to pick off megamence, and finally, dont use it as a spikestacker. its best used as a wallbreaker, and i think AM can back me up on this. not to mention, that explosion KOs everything that doesnt exist it barring physically invested shuckle, puts a large dent in 2x resists, and does 30%~ to heatran. and when freeze dry glalie finally comes around, it will have a way to break bulky waters with its meaty 120 satk. but really, to say mega glalie is as bad as stuff like mega audino or mega steelix is just misinformed. coming from somebody who actually used it.
Smog frog mind posting some damage calcs for some of those moves that glalie could use? Then maybe we could bet a good perspective on it's potential as a wallbreaker. However, One problem I have mega glalie, and other pokemon with this, is it's base 100 speed. It's not bad, but it fails to outspeed a lot of common OU threats leaving it more susceptible to getting revenge killed. Of course it does get Ice shard to help that issue, but I'm not convinced about using up a mega slot for mega glalie yet.
That said, the wallbreaker Megas in OU right now have either the same or lower speed. Zard Y, Cham and Garde all have base 100 while Hera has 75 (85 on megalution turn). I'm sure there was one other - I think Zard X or Pinsir? Probly wrong tho - but I think direct comparisons are more easily made with Garde and Cham because like those two, it has 80 speed on megalution turn and 100 every turn after that. It also has insane power thanks to it's ability and a decent movepool, so I can see it being a great wallbreaker - and in that sense, the speed argument is negligible (then again, there's a slight speed creep with these new megas...). So really I think what should be disputed here is what Glalie can wallbreak that Cham can't.
It's beyond me why Diancie is not getting discussed enough. It has a fantastic speed tier and some godly mixed offenses. People seem to focus on its shortcomings way more like how its x4 weak to BP when like only 3 relevant mons carry the move. Yes its move pool is limited, but IMO what it has is just enough. Did everyone forget that Fairy + Ground is practically unresisted (with Skarm being the only exception I can think off the top of my head). That and its signature move is an upgraded SE with 50% chance to boost its defense which is great boon to its already decent 50/110 physical bulk. The typing is something people tend to overlook the most as it checks both mega zards and talonflame just to mention a few common pokes. Oh and on top of being already being great offensively, it can ward off status with magic bounce. Overall I can see this being very solid mega poke that will make quite an impact on the meta.
I would go on more, but I hate typing on moblie
I would go on more, but I hate typing on moblie
i'd be happy to oblige:
double-edge(my preference:)
252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 151-178 (45.2 - 53.2%) -- 34.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 232-274 (58.8 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 349-412 (54.3 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
these are against physically defensive (or just fatass) non-resists. it can do decent damage to squishier resists:
252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 240 HP / 244+ Def Tentacruel: 125-147 (34.6 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 144-170 (44.5 - 52.6%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
and for return:
252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 127-151 (38 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 198-234 (50.2 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Return vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 298-352 (46.4 - 54.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
not as strong as i would like. but explosion:
252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 729-858 (113.5 - 133.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 313-369 (93.7 - 110.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 240 HP / 244+ Def Tentacruel: 260-306 (72 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 483-568 (122.5 - 144.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 369-435 (104.8 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 300-354 (92.8 - 109.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
tl;dr mega glalie has ludicrous power before it needs to boom and during the boom itself. i prefer double-edge because of some crucial KOes but return works just fine.
double-edge(my preference:)
252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 151-178 (45.2 - 53.2%) -- 34.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 232-274 (58.8 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 349-412 (54.3 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
these are against physically defensive (or just fatass) non-resists. it can do decent damage to squishier resists:
252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 240 HP / 244+ Def Tentacruel: 125-147 (34.6 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 144-170 (44.5 - 52.6%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
and for return:
252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 127-151 (38 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 198-234 (50.2 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Return vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 298-352 (46.4 - 54.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
not as strong as i would like. but explosion:
252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 729-858 (113.5 - 133.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 313-369 (93.7 - 110.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 240 HP / 244+ Def Tentacruel: 260-306 (72 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 483-568 (122.5 - 144.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 369-435 (104.8 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 300-354 (92.8 - 109.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
tl;dr mega glalie has ludicrous power before it needs to boom and during the boom itself. i prefer double-edge because of some crucial KOes but return works just fine.
I don't get why people are sleeping on Mega Diancie either. It's very well-rounded, 50/110/110 is very good for something with it's offensive stats, and it can't be crippled by Taunt, Paralysis or Burns. It's also nice to have a BirdSpam check that you don't have to think of as only a BirdSpam check (if that doesn't make sense, it's a BirdSpam check but one doesn't think of it like Rhyperior or Zapdos). Earth Power was a great gift for it, because Ground hits virtually everything that resists Fairy hard. A moveset that looks something like this plays pretty well:
Diancie-Mega @ Diancite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- Earth Power
- Diamond Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Rock Polish / Calm Mind
Even with a Timid nature, Diamond Storm OHKOs every BirdSpam member with percentage points to spare. HP Fire hits Scizor and Ferro hard on the switch (OHKOing offensive Mega Scizor, and 2HKOing defensive Scizor and Ferrothorn). As someone mentioned earlier, Fairy/Ground hits almost everything for neutral damage, and the few things it doesn't Stone Edge nails (Zards, Crobat, Talonflame). Great three move coverage and a decent number of options for the last slot makes it a very decent Mega. The two real downsides are a downright awful speed before Mega evolving, and a 4x Steel weakness. Outside of that, it plays very well, and those weaknesses are far from crippling. The RP set actually is amazing against Rain and Sand teams, at +2 with a Modest nature it OHKOs Excadrill, Omastar, Kabutops (outside of Aqua Jet variants), and Kingdra.
Edit: This post put me over 500 total likes :D Thanks guys!
Diancie-Mega @ Diancite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- Earth Power
- Diamond Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Rock Polish / Calm Mind
Even with a Timid nature, Diamond Storm OHKOs every BirdSpam member with percentage points to spare. HP Fire hits Scizor and Ferro hard on the switch (OHKOing offensive Mega Scizor, and 2HKOing defensive Scizor and Ferrothorn). As someone mentioned earlier, Fairy/Ground hits almost everything for neutral damage, and the few things it doesn't Stone Edge nails (Zards, Crobat, Talonflame). Great three move coverage and a decent number of options for the last slot makes it a very decent Mega. The two real downsides are a downright awful speed before Mega evolving, and a 4x Steel weakness. Outside of that, it plays very well, and those weaknesses are far from crippling. The RP set actually is amazing against Rain and Sand teams, at +2 with a Modest nature it OHKOs Excadrill, Omastar, Kabutops (outside of Aqua Jet variants), and Kingdra.
Edit: This post put me over 500 total likes :D Thanks guys!
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That is very impressive. however a lot of these pokemon can be wrecked by mega cham.
240 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 199-235 (59.5 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(199, 202, 204, 207, 208, 211, 213, 216, 219, 220, 223, 225, 228, 229, 232, 235)
240 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 189-223 (47.9 - 56.5%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(189, 192, 193, 196, 198, 201, 202, 205, 207, 210, 211, 214, 216, 219, 220, 223)
All the other pokemon can be taken care of with coverage such as fire punch and ice punch plus mega cham doesn't have nearly as many cripling weaknesses or weaknesses to priority mach punch or bullet punch.
but, mega glalie can do the following, which mega cham cannot do:
252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 163-193 (53.6 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Mega Glalie can cover everything in two moveslots between Return/Double-Edge and Earthquake, allowing it to use the last two slots on Explosion, Spikes, Taunt, Freeze-Dry,Destiny Bond or whatever else you want. Mega Medi almost always runs Fake Out, HJK and Zen Headbutt. Glalie can provide some team support, Medi is mostly independent with regards to helping teams. As far as relevant priority goes, that's not really an argument that favors Medi because BirdSpam is just at relevant as BP or Mach Punch.
Okay, let's be serious about WHY camerupt has a bad defensive typing. When is the last time you saw a team in OU that didn't have a strong water attack AND a strong ground attack? Seriously, look at the freaking viability list for one second and just shudder at how many of the best and most used pokemon carry moves that can easily kill camerupt. Azumarill's waterfall, gyarados' waterfall, keldeo's hydro pump/scald, gren's hydro pump/scald, lando's earthquake/earth power, garchomp's earthquake, basically anything's earthquake isn't going to be fun, STAB or no. Additionally, DD char X, DD/banded Dragonite, and many other common strong attackers carry boosted quakes that will do the job as well. Honestly, if camerupt retained it's HA in solid rock with it's new stats, i'd say it could be good, but sheer force boosting it's offense instead? Meh. Sure, it hits really hard, but with such a low speed it's easy to contain outside of TR, which while it may become common in ORAS, as of now, isn't. Even if it is able to overpower one of it's checks on the switch, most teams are going to have another one. That's the real issue. At the end of the day, the number of weaknesses isn't the issue, it's the specific weaknesses to two of the most common and powerful attacking types that EVERY FREAKING TEAM IS GOING TO HAVE. And hell, even in TR, it's going to have problems with aqua jet, which isn't all that uncommon. Oh, and just to illustrate that point, here's a calc of a banded azumarill's aqua jet against a fully invested HP/Def mega camerupt:
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Camerupt: 376-448 (109.3 - 130.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
oh, and in case you're wondering, no that isn't a def nature on 'rupt, but here's one with it:
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Camerupt: 340-408 (98.8 - 118.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
Hey, there we go, 'rupt can avoid the OHKO 6.2% of the time! ...At full defense/HP investment AFTER mega evolving. And just go ahead and forget about what'll happen with SR up, because we all know. Now tell me again that camerupt doesn't have bad typing. Please. Banded azumarill is a full stop to it at it's most physically defensive limits with priority aqua jet being able to bypass TR's speed reversal. And obviously, azumarill isn't the only thing that does this, which is my real point. The meta is just chock full of powerful water and ground attacks that will take SOOOOO much work and support from Camerupt's teammates to get rid of, so in the end, what's the point? 'Rupt is an interesting TR pokemon, and that's IT. It has a bad defensive typing that will prevent it from being effective anywhere else.
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Camerupt: 376-448 (109.3 - 130.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
oh, and in case you're wondering, no that isn't a def nature on 'rupt, but here's one with it:
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Camerupt: 340-408 (98.8 - 118.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
Hey, there we go, 'rupt can avoid the OHKO 6.2% of the time! ...At full defense/HP investment AFTER mega evolving. And just go ahead and forget about what'll happen with SR up, because we all know. Now tell me again that camerupt doesn't have bad typing. Please. Banded azumarill is a full stop to it at it's most physically defensive limits with priority aqua jet being able to bypass TR's speed reversal. And obviously, azumarill isn't the only thing that does this, which is my real point. The meta is just chock full of powerful water and ground attacks that will take SOOOOO much work and support from Camerupt's teammates to get rid of, so in the end, what's the point? 'Rupt is an interesting TR pokemon, and that's IT. It has a bad defensive typing that will prevent it from being effective anywhere else.
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