I don't know if anyone has mentioned it before, but I found out SDef Sableye to be great in any Stall team. It lets you to beat threats like Gengar and Greninja which are troublesome otherwise, and it's overall a good mon. The lack of physical defense isn't something to ignore though, even if Will-o-Wisp somewhat makes up for this anyways.
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Other Stall
- Thread starter ShootingStarmie
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Yeah SpDef Sableye is great. Another thing it does really well is not getting mauled by Scald/Lava Plume spam. I ran Knock Off and Night Shade which between them allowed me to beat Heatran without too much trouble. Cleric support is still nice, but you usually keep the rocks off with Sableye alone.
Kecleon and bronzong? Kekkles wrecks clefable with iron tail and bronzong destroys diancie and gardevoir. Here's a fun replay against a charizard-y volt-turn team.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-197498227
...don't take the pokemon choices to seriously I just got tired of seeing fairies and metagross everwhere...
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-197498227
...don't take the pokemon choices to seriously I just got tired of seeing fairies and metagross everwhere...
I know you posted this a while ago but I agree completely about the upsides. But mainly I can't seem to get a mega aggron going for my life. Do you have any decent sets cuz there seems to be a specific frog I have difficulty handling haha.
While kecleon is garbage Bronzong is actually pretty nice. I used it in RU stall with a Heatproof set (I recommend Levitate in OU tho) to beat MSceptile, MPidgeot and Dragalge and it does its job very well. The Levitate set in OU takes care of Mega Diancie, Mega Altaria (no Fire Blast) Mega Sceptile, Kyurem-Black and Mega Gardevoir with a SpDef set and a PDef set takes care of Mega Metagross and Mega Lopunny while also having utility as a stealth rock setter and status inducer.
At recommendation I used bronzong with gyro ball/EQ/HP-ice/toxic (and had a separate hazard layer) -- there are great uses for every single one of those moves and all are worth keeping if you can manage to get a separate stealth rocker on your team. A single package that beats landorus, gliscors, diancies, latis, gardevoirs, and toxics anything trying to set up is a really great well rounded utility when you're weak to the fairy and dragon spam (no greninja..) on the suspect ladder. Kecleon is obviously terrible I was using him for fun.
Just saw this but, is it just me or is that piece of shit honestly broken af? It basically fucks every single wall in the game and opens up a sweep to the point where using it is admitting you have no skill in wall breaking. Its basically like a watered down mega Gengar. :\
Imo it basically invalidates any non-overprepared stall build by both its presence and movepool + ability, when played by a person who possesses half a brain. But that's just me and you won't get non-stall players to understand this.
I think the best thing you can do when playing against Gothitelle as a stall team is to make hazards the number one priority. You have to punish her every time she tries to come in and trap something. Mega-Sableye comes up huge here, not being afraid of her at all and contributing to the hazard game. She's still a bitch to play against, because good prediction will beat you every time.
Packing pursuit users and knock off (like on Clefable, Licks, Alo, Mew) are common on high tier stall teams to prevent Goth from steamrolling. It still requires good prediction skills, but it's something. You could run other obscure things if you're really paranoid like shed shell Blissey (the Ubers tier always recommend Blissey > Chansey cuz of Shadow Tag as well), skill swap pokemon like Cresselia, or pack Pokemon who can actually kill Gothitelle i.e. defensive pokes who can actually hurt ala Tangrowth over amoongus or mvenus perse.
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Not only can Gothitelle trap Chansey but it can also encourage the stall player using Chansey because it can be trapped. If a player can't switch into Chansey to tank hits because it fears the Gothitelle trap, it is in a really bad position because Chansey can't stop pokemon like Mega Diancie anymore and pokemon like these will have a very nice battle. The best way to stop Gothitelle is in my opinion to knock off its scarf. Skill Swap Cresselia can be played around and Pursuit trappers doesn't fit on stall very well (they work on semi stall) so the Gothitelle player is still not in a bad position as long as it doesn't lose its scarf
Note: Only used Chansey as a example. This basically works for many stall pokemon
Note: Only used Chansey as a example. This basically works for many stall pokemon
Knock Off is definitely the most convenient move Stall can use to beat Gothitelle, since it's one moveslot versus a whole pokemon slot. It's still not as great as running a Pursuit user, imo, which is why I listed Knock Off second in dealing with Gothgirl. With Knock Off, you have to be spamming that move every time you get a chance to (usually at full health or after recovering) or else you risk losing. The Knock Off user also has to be a Pokemon Gothitelle WANTS to trap, which actually limits the pokemon who can be your designated Goth Lure. For example, you can't have Gliscor have Knock Off since most Goths won't want to switch into it primarily. And, if you have already revealed Knock Off, the Goth player is less likely to come in on that specific pokemon and will aim for the other pokemon on your team first. At least with a pursuit user, the Gothitelle user has to be afraid of a double switch on ANY of your stall pokes and will play just as conservatively as you.
In addition, if Gothitelle does trap a Pokemon on your Knock Off Stall team, it can switch back and do it again to your non-knock off pokes. Pursuit will cap the damage to one pokemon lost (which, admittedly, can still be huge), but it's one is better than like 2 or 3.
And, I actually think pursuit users still fit relatively well on "Stall" teams (airquotes because people will argue whether that having a pursuit user really does make it a stall team). Tyranitar handles birdpam decently well and takes on Lati@s while providing Stealth Rock if you're not using a Choice Item. Regular/Mega Scizor checks fairies (especially M-garde who is stall's traditional enemy) among other things. Doublade does something very similar.
In addition, if Gothitelle does trap a Pokemon on your Knock Off Stall team, it can switch back and do it again to your non-knock off pokes. Pursuit will cap the damage to one pokemon lost (which, admittedly, can still be huge), but it's one is better than like 2 or 3.
And, I actually think pursuit users still fit relatively well on "Stall" teams (airquotes because people will argue whether that having a pursuit user really does make it a stall team). Tyranitar handles birdpam decently well and takes on Lati@s while providing Stealth Rock if you're not using a Choice Item. Regular/Mega Scizor checks fairies (especially M-garde who is stall's traditional enemy) among other things. Doublade does something very similar.
The suspect ladder has adapated to the point where almost every stealth rocks user is one that either beats sableye 1v1 or prevents it from switching in safely. Clef, heatran, skill swap azelf, landorus-i, and earth plate landorus-t. Many teams also have 2 fairy types to capitalize on the popularity of latis and no poison types in ou and coverage moves to simply handle common steels. Finally there's offensive starmie which is a new spinner that can beat sableye.
I'm also seeing pretty ridiculous things like volcaronas, manaphys, CM keldeos, and so on hoping to capitalize by switching in on stall's so called best mega. It's pretty clear that people hate this thing and are using desperate tactics to try to break it :)
I've still been able to hold things together pretty well despite this and it's usually by just allowing them to get the hazards up while putting up my own and turning into a game where they need to defog more than I do, thanks to klefki's spikes. Here's hoping greninja doesn't get banned and makes it more difficult to viably run multiple slow "sableye-breakers" on a single team... It'd be very nice if fairies in particular took a huge usage hit!
I'm also seeing pretty ridiculous things like volcaronas, manaphys, CM keldeos, and so on hoping to capitalize by switching in on stall's so called best mega. It's pretty clear that people hate this thing and are using desperate tactics to try to break it :)
I've still been able to hold things together pretty well despite this and it's usually by just allowing them to get the hazards up while putting up my own and turning into a game where they need to defog more than I do, thanks to klefki's spikes. Here's hoping greninja doesn't get banned and makes it more difficult to viably run multiple slow "sableye-breakers" on a single team... It'd be very nice if fairies in particular took a huge usage hit!
As someone who enjoys playing stall on OU, can I ask how well something like mega-slowbro would perform on stall?
I've been running a decent team for a little while, but I find myself very vulnerable to fairies, is there anyone who could help me with getting rid of this weakness without losing half of my team?
I've been running a decent team for a little while, but I find myself very vulnerable to fairies, is there anyone who could help me with getting rid of this weakness without losing half of my team?
Mega Slowbro is a great mega for stall but the biggest disadvantage is that you can't use Mega Sableye.
All the fairies in OU: Mega Gardevoir, Mega Diancie, Azumarill, Sylveon, Mega Altaria, Clefable
Clefable, Mega Gardevoir, Mega Diancie and Sylveon are beaten by SpD Jirachi (just don't switch in on Earth Power from Diancie)
Azumarill and Mega Altaria are beaten by Clear Smog Amoonguss, although with Azumarill getting Knock Off Amoonguss is not a counter. Quagsire beats Mega Altaria and Azumarill without Band
Pokemon like DD Mega Altaria are also beaten by Skarmory and Mega Diancie gets killed by Chansey, but other fairies can beat them. Quagsire, Amoonguss and Jirachi are the best fairy killers for stall in my opinion.
And from my own experience: if you use quagsire you'll auto lose to a team carrying energy ball goth + physical sweeper and if you use jirachi you'll have a really rough game against dragmag birdspam. I've been doing a lot of work on my sableye teams to avoid using quagsire without having a glaring weakness to dragon dancers.
I rather be killed by Gothitelle than by fairies, because 1. fairies are way more common and 2. gothitelle will kill you anyways, doesn't matter if you run quag or you don't run quag.
Dragmag or Birdmag never really threaten me as the counters I use for dragons / birdspam don't get trapped by Magnezone (or I use shed shell on skarm)
Dragmag or Birdmag never really threaten me as the counters I use for dragons / birdspam don't get trapped by Magnezone (or I use shed shell on skarm)
Goth is actually the most threatenin mon for stall nowadays but If you know How to play around it specially having knockoff m-sab (foul play does shit to 0 ivs atk goth) you shouldn't have any problems... It is anoyin as sht but also unawares are anoyin to offenses.
and yea, eball goth sucks hard
and yea, eball goth sucks hard
The problem is Gothitelle won't stay in or switch in on Sableye because it knows it can neither trap it (ghost type) or trick it (mega stone) Gothitelle can play around all answers stall has to offer (except pursuit trappers) and trap a pokemon like Chansey by making a simple prediction.
What kind of pokemon do you use? Rhyperior or hippo? Unaware clef? I could use some ideas
For dragons I often use Quagsire, he takes on Zard X, DD Mega Alt and SD Garchomp. Slowbro with Scald + Ice Beam takes on dragons well too. I never see Gothitelle paired up with Zard X or SD Chomp and even if I do I'll take the lose. I've never used Rhyperior but it takes on all birds and zard X so with Skarmory + Rhyperior you can take on Zard X, SD Chomp, DD Mega Alt and Birdspam. Hippowdon is also a solid answer to Zard X and birdspam.
I've known for a while that I'm pretty soft to banded dnite+metagross but here's a replay I wanted to share. Hax goes both ways, which always seems to be the case when metagross is involved... (and I'm pretty sure everyone has played against this team by know. idk who made it)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-198600663
bonus replay:
this happens when you bring a logical balance team but use the wrong clefable and get your defogger locked
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-198637057
silly skill swap azelfs. do you really need rocks that bad?
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-198919609
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-198600663
bonus replay:
this happens when you bring a logical balance team but use the wrong clefable and get your defogger locked
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-198637057
silly skill swap azelfs. do you really need rocks that bad?
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-198919609
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This is exactly why its broken imo, Goth is a mindless no skill pokemon and takes prediction, switching AND switching moves against it out of the game. It still wins against most defensive knock off users and can just Trick Rest struggle stall walls and/or CM and get to +6+6 and sweep your whole team unless you have pursuit or unaware clef. At the very worst it just picks off pokemon of its choosing to open up sweeps. Id actually love to see it or Shadow Tag suspect tested tbh. I dont think anyone in the right mind can call it Shadow Tag a healthy ability for a competitive environment.
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