Defensive hasn't been that good since murk tite. Its to easy to wear down and unlike in bw and some of the xy metas, its a lot easier to fit a cleric, making scald burns on a mienfoo less important. Ofc this is ignoring heal bell missy which fell out of fashion when trick specs and np got really popular. Defensive Tirt was designed to be a utility mon capable of wearing down mons with burns, Sr and aqua jet, all notable ways of severing cores and supporting the myriad of offensive threats. Not to mention its lack of recovery was understated by it rarely needing to take more than one or two hits such as vs drilbur on sand or versus mixkrow. Volturn being much better this gen and the knock off buff really hurt it by offsetting its great bulk. Fletchling having u-turns makes it a lot harder to do its job. Offensive isn't suited for so much priority, especially when croagunk is good rn, almost mandating eq, which means no aqua jet. Posting from my phone so I will be sure to edit this post for more clarity
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Resource LC Viability Rankings
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Although ferroseed might struggle to find room for knock off, it shouldn't be left out of this 'competition'.
I do like defensive tirtouga currently (knock off, aqua jet, scald, SR). There is certainly a lot of high ranked mons that threaten tirt, but the combination of SR, knock off, and priority are so difficult to overlook. Scald burns are unreliable but potentially game winning. I could see some reasoning behind using EQ over scald.
It does feel like tirt has fallen somewhat out of favor and I can agree with it moving from A+ to A. Short of flinch/crit/burn hax bulky fighting and grass types shut him down pretty badly.
On an opposite note I've been seeing more of omanyte. It's been pretty underrated/underused for awhile but it seems to be rising in use from my experience. A LO rain omanyte or well set up smash can destroy teams. I don't really like it as a hazard setter but I've seen a couple people using it as such.
This is probably a scary thing to do and I'm going to get countered a lot for this, but I elect Timburr for S rank OR Mienfoo drop down to A+ OR both.
Timburr defeats Mienfoo in most 1v1's with only the exception of Mienfoo when it runs HJK, which is almost never does.
In addition, Timburr can defeat Archen is every single 1v1 counter, with Drain Punch + Mach Punch.
It takes care of many Evioilite sets with Knock off and if it has a Bulk up, it can do some serious damage being able to then withstand a Fletchling Acrobatics.
Mienfoo loses to Abra's with protect, which is most Abra's now, gets completely crippled by burn, not being bulky enough to utilize Regenerator nicely and loses its speed to the common Sticky Web.
It has nice niches, like Fake out and HJK or Drain Punch, but Timburr is just a better pokemon in perspective.
Timburr's nice use of Mach Punch priority makes it vital in destroying most pokemon by completely getting rid of the low speed that it carries.
Yes, it loses to the ever-present Abra and the common Fletchling and has to switch out against Foongus, but it's the same for Mienfoo.
I've been using Timburr from the start of my LC team and it's the only one who's remaining and has got me up to top 30 before on LC.
Mienfoo just doesn't seem to carry the strength that Timburr does.
Your thoughts on this? Because most of my high leveled opponents I face have the same POV as me.
Timburr defeats Mienfoo in most 1v1's with only the exception of Mienfoo when it runs HJK, which is almost never does.
In addition, Timburr can defeat Archen is every single 1v1 counter, with Drain Punch + Mach Punch.
It takes care of many Evioilite sets with Knock off and if it has a Bulk up, it can do some serious damage being able to then withstand a Fletchling Acrobatics.
Mienfoo loses to Abra's with protect, which is most Abra's now, gets completely crippled by burn, not being bulky enough to utilize Regenerator nicely and loses its speed to the common Sticky Web.
It has nice niches, like Fake out and HJK or Drain Punch, but Timburr is just a better pokemon in perspective.
Timburr's nice use of Mach Punch priority makes it vital in destroying most pokemon by completely getting rid of the low speed that it carries.
Yes, it loses to the ever-present Abra and the common Fletchling and has to switch out against Foongus, but it's the same for Mienfoo.
I've been using Timburr from the start of my LC team and it's the only one who's remaining and has got me up to top 30 before on LC.
Mienfoo just doesn't seem to carry the strength that Timburr does.
Your thoughts on this? Because most of my high leveled opponents I face have the same POV as me.
No. Not even close. Timburr is limited to either being a Bulk-Up sweeper (a damn good one), or just a bulky pivot. You can make a claim of it being a status absorber, too, although Poison and Burn wear it down, preventing it from being as good of a pivot. Mienfoo has an unbelievable amount of jobs it can perform. Not only that, it is either the best or one of the best at those jobs. It is a top tier revenge-killer, sweeper, defensive OR offensive pivot, baton passer, weather inducer, Scarf abuser, fighting-type/flying type lure, need I go on? The simple combination of Knock Off/U-turn/Fighting STAB and Regenerator have allowed Mienfoo the honour of being a monster in this metagame. Those don't even come close to all of Foo's options, which in turn can allow him to fight back against any of his checks, and I mean ANY OF THEM. I shouldn't have to explain Foo any more.
Also, Timburr has difficulty winning 1v1 against Archen. It can easily OHKO Timburr with a full-powered Acro. From what I'm reading, you're just not using Mienfoo properly.
Mienfoo's job isn't really to beat these things 1v1. Rather, it is best used as a fast pivot, utilizing U-turn to gain momentum and recover with Regenerator. (which you didn't mention)
Fake Out is really a waste of a slot on Mienfoo, it can stop the set up of hazards with Taunt, or it can opt for Acrobatics, a move that will allow it to beat most Fighting-types.
Mienfoo is far too good to move down right now, it is one of the best Pokemon in the metagame, and it has nearly 70% usage for a reason.
Well now I'm obligated to disagree. never mind that it's a point I brought up.
That all said, I still think Magnemite ought to drop. Status/ knock off completely screw it over, as do certain mons like Drilbur that catch it. Chinchou, Pawn, and Foo definitely put it in a bad position, and we ought to remember that those are very common Pokemon. Other massive threats would include Ponyta, Timburr, Drilbur, and much, much more.
Maybe it's because those people are dirty fucking liars
There's no way that Meowth should be higher than Aipom. Aipom completely outclasses Meowth both in raw stats and movepool. The only thing Meowth has going for it is Technician Fake Out+Covet/Feint... which isn't really a great niche. Aipom, on the other hand, has exceptional wallbreaking potential thanks to Skill Link (LO Fury Swipes OHKOs FastFoo after rocks; not much avoids the 2HKO from Swipes+specific coverage move), great coverage (Gunk Shot for Spritzee, Fire Punch for Ferro, Seed Bomb for Tirt, etc.), and high speed (19 speed tier is really barren right now). It also possesses passable bulk, unlike Meowth, which allows it to survive most priority (Fletch's Acro has a 6.3% chance to KO after rocks and a round of LO recoil, Pawniard's Sucker Punch will never KO after rocks and a round of LO recoil). Its combination of power, coverage, and speed actually make it hard to switch in to (further emphasized by access to Knock Off and U-Turn), whereas Meowth might throw out a Fake Out and get forced out. Honestly, if anything, I'd call for a rise for Aipom, not a drop (I think it deserves B- rank). Just because there's a stigma surrounding a mon, in this case, an association with noobs and shit players, does not mean it should drop.
EDIT: I was speaking about LO Aipom above, which I consider to be it's best set. Eviolite attacker is almost 100% outclassed by LO. It can still pull off some cool gimmicky shit though, like Eviolite Counter, SubPass, Taunt, Eviolite PuP/Hone Claws, and lol TrickScarf.
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I tried to get Aipom brought up to B- a while back and was pretty much shot down. idk why, Aipom's Fury Swipes do a lot of damage to anything that doesn't resist it, and that combined that 18/19 speed and U-turn and Knock Off create a very nice combination. I think if Elekid is B-, Aipom is also deserving.
The question then becomes: do Pokemon like Elekid and Amaura truly deserve to be B-?
Elekid is a weak wall-breaker, completely walled by Chinchou and Pumpkaboo, extremely weak to priority (even Fletchling's Acrobatics 2HKOs it). I really don't see reason for it to be B- anymore, seeing as the meta is kind of straying away from the determinant of speed.
Amaura is blessed with, arguably, the worst typing in the game. It also is slow, weak to the vast amount of fighters, and is really only being considered because of how well the Scarf set deals with FletchDig, which is dropping as a playstyle as whole.
There are other reasons to drop them, but it's quite late and I just wanted to point out that both of these mons are pretty mediocre right now.
Elekid is a weak wall-breaker, completely walled by Chinchou and Pumpkaboo, extremely weak to priority (even Fletchling's Acrobatics 2HKOs it). I really don't see reason for it to be B- anymore, seeing as the meta is kind of straying away from the determinant of speed.
Amaura is blessed with, arguably, the worst typing in the game. It also is slow, weak to the vast amount of fighters, and is really only being considered because of how well the Scarf set deals with FletchDig, which is dropping as a playstyle as whole.
There are other reasons to drop them, but it's quite late and I just wanted to point out that both of these mons are pretty mediocre right now.
I'd really like for Aipom to be raised.
It hits 19 speed, can 2HKO the vast majority of the metagame, and is insanely versatile. Other than the few very fast taunters and scarf multihit users, Aipom is the only relevant pokemon that can reliably prevent Surskit from setting up Sticky Web. Aipom also possesses a very fast taunt along with other support options like Thunder Wave or U-turn. Aipoms movepool is chalk-full with helpful options. Fake Out and Fury Swipes are, for the most part, necessary, but it has a lot of flexibility outside of that. Between Knock Off, Brick Break, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Seed Bomb, and Gunk Shot, near nothing can switch in. Aipom's bulk is often understated as well, but for reference it's bulkier than Mienfoo. Furthermore, Aipom will rarely have a bad team matchup because its strong Fake Out and Speed allow it to beat offensive mons, while Little Cup rolls with Fury Swipes, coverage options, and bulk let it easily beat common bulky pokemon.
Now obviously there are downsides to using Aipom and I'll talk about them so that I'm not appearing to be completely biased here. Aipom has no resistances, so switching in is very difficult. Using Aipom can be very prediction reliant. Fury Swipes also has some downsides such as forcing you to almost kill yourself on Ferroseeds and essentially guarantees that Larvesta or Ponyta will burn you. 80% accuracy can be annoying. If you're not using a Life Orb, you have to use Knock Off on near everything before you get good damage rolls. Even with a Life Orb, an adamant nature is needed to get good rolls against particularly bulky pokemon like Spritzee. Aipom frequently causes 50/50s that can result in you killing your momentum. All forms of status also greatly hinder Aipom.
To sum up, Aipom does have flaws but it can bring many valuable assets to a team, while needing little team support, fitting the B-rank definition. Aipom does not have a big flaw preventing it from being effective, does not require significant support, and does not face competition with more commonly used Pokemon, so being in C-rank just doesn't make sense.
It hits 19 speed, can 2HKO the vast majority of the metagame, and is insanely versatile. Other than the few very fast taunters and scarf multihit users, Aipom is the only relevant pokemon that can reliably prevent Surskit from setting up Sticky Web. Aipom also possesses a very fast taunt along with other support options like Thunder Wave or U-turn. Aipoms movepool is chalk-full with helpful options. Fake Out and Fury Swipes are, for the most part, necessary, but it has a lot of flexibility outside of that. Between Knock Off, Brick Break, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Seed Bomb, and Gunk Shot, near nothing can switch in. Aipom's bulk is often understated as well, but for reference it's bulkier than Mienfoo. Furthermore, Aipom will rarely have a bad team matchup because its strong Fake Out and Speed allow it to beat offensive mons, while Little Cup rolls with Fury Swipes, coverage options, and bulk let it easily beat common bulky pokemon.
Now obviously there are downsides to using Aipom and I'll talk about them so that I'm not appearing to be completely biased here. Aipom has no resistances, so switching in is very difficult. Using Aipom can be very prediction reliant. Fury Swipes also has some downsides such as forcing you to almost kill yourself on Ferroseeds and essentially guarantees that Larvesta or Ponyta will burn you. 80% accuracy can be annoying. If you're not using a Life Orb, you have to use Knock Off on near everything before you get good damage rolls. Even with a Life Orb, an adamant nature is needed to get good rolls against particularly bulky pokemon like Spritzee. Aipom frequently causes 50/50s that can result in you killing your momentum. All forms of status also greatly hinder Aipom.
To sum up, Aipom does have flaws but it can bring many valuable assets to a team, while needing little team support, fitting the B-rank definition. Aipom does not have a big flaw preventing it from being effective, does not require significant support, and does not face competition with more commonly used Pokemon, so being in C-rank just doesn't make sense.
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aipom -> B-
karrablast -> C-
^ these changes happening unless someone objects soon
Pancham. Amaura actually only rose to B- with the addition of Earthpower which is fantastic for it as it means it isn't stopped cold by Chinchou anymore. It has great coverage in Hyper Voice, Earthpower, lending itself to a late game sweeping role with scarf or rock polish. It also has great utility with moves like Stealth Rock and Thunder Wave to help support the team. it's also kinda powerful, look at the calcs vs. common switchins
224+ SpA Refrigerate Amaura Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 236+ SpD Eviolite Timburr: 10-13 (41.6 - 54.1%) -- 56.3% chance to 2HKO
that actually really helps to wear down timburr and really limits the number of switch-ins it has vs amaura. If you have a good timburr counter like foongus or spritzee or snubbull, it's gonna be difficult for timburr to gain that health back with Drain Punch.
224+ SpA Amaura Earth Power vs. 76 HP / 148 SpD Eviolite Chinchou: 10-14 (40 - 56%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
that's standard restalk chinchou, a set which is actually pretty rare atm, most people don't invest in that much bulk, yet amaura can 2hko it with rocks
224+ SpA Amaura Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 116 SpD Eviolite Pawniard: 12-16 (57.1 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
again a 2hko on something with no recovery
amaura can really limit switch ins. not to mention vs. pawniard it can TWave it if you're gonna go with a BJ/eviolite set, which can relaly fuck it up
not gonna comment on elekid cos i never play with it and don't see it too much, but not moving it down until people comment on it more
karrablast -> C-
^ these changes happening unless someone objects soon
Pancham. Amaura actually only rose to B- with the addition of Earthpower which is fantastic for it as it means it isn't stopped cold by Chinchou anymore. It has great coverage in Hyper Voice, Earthpower, lending itself to a late game sweeping role with scarf or rock polish. It also has great utility with moves like Stealth Rock and Thunder Wave to help support the team. it's also kinda powerful, look at the calcs vs. common switchins
224+ SpA Refrigerate Amaura Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 236+ SpD Eviolite Timburr: 10-13 (41.6 - 54.1%) -- 56.3% chance to 2HKO
that actually really helps to wear down timburr and really limits the number of switch-ins it has vs amaura. If you have a good timburr counter like foongus or spritzee or snubbull, it's gonna be difficult for timburr to gain that health back with Drain Punch.
224+ SpA Amaura Earth Power vs. 76 HP / 148 SpD Eviolite Chinchou: 10-14 (40 - 56%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
that's standard restalk chinchou, a set which is actually pretty rare atm, most people don't invest in that much bulk, yet amaura can 2hko it with rocks
224+ SpA Amaura Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 116 SpD Eviolite Pawniard: 12-16 (57.1 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
again a 2hko on something with no recovery
amaura can really limit switch ins. not to mention vs. pawniard it can TWave it if you're gonna go with a BJ/eviolite set, which can relaly fuck it up
not gonna comment on elekid cos i never play with it and don't see it too much, but not moving it down until people comment on it more
Aipom -> B-? Yeah
Definitely. Life Orb Skill Link STAB Fury Swipes hits like several small trucks, but the best aspect of Aipom is its Speed tier. The fact that it gets such godly coverage as stuff like Knock Off, U-Turn, Gunk Shot, etc. kinda makes me wonder why it's so low (probs all the fighting nonsense but w/e). 16/17 in an attack stat is nothing to trifle with (see: Chinchou, Croagunk) and coupled with Life Orb, a great STAB, god-tier coverage and similar speed, Aipom fully deserves the move, and is on par with such things as Slowpoke and Floon (personally I'd put it in B with Scrafty and them but baby steps)
Karrablast -> C-? Yeah
Again, no questions. That No Guard is scary, man. Scarfablast is one of the hidden gems of LC imo.
In response to Pancham, I totally agree on Elekid, but not Amaura.
Elekid -> Lower (probs C+ish)? Yeah
Imo the only thing keeping Kid so high is that god-tier speed. Its abilities are crap since the only sleeper is Foongus. While MixKid is dangerous, it suffers from the power drop that going mixed has. Its coverage is pretty iffy, Cross Chop is cool if you like missing and Fighting types are already everywhere, the elemental punches are pweak, and its special options are limited to electric attacks, signal beam, and HP. It also gets uber walled by the Pumpkin, which is becoming more and more of a problem. You could probably keep Kid in B- for being a sweet revenge killer (20 Speed is no joke) but he's leaning downward to me.
Amaura -> Lower? Nah
Amaura, I will grant you, is a bit of a mixed bag. That typing is literally worse than rush hour traffic with a minivan full of screaming children and Radio Disney. On the other hand, however, Amaura is great for a couple reasons. Amaura runs an excellent Scarf set, and the addition of Earth Power only sweetens the sugar bowl. Amaura can run 14 Speed without a speed boosting nature, which is cool cause then it reaches 17 in SpA. The real calling card for Amaura is those Refrigerate boosted attacks. Amaura has room to run Hyper Beam as an emergency out against fatmons along with Hyper Voice/Nature Power (HV hits through subs, NP can't be Sucker Punched). Amaura does have some significant flaws, it does need a bit of team support (just a fighting resist but pls who doesn't have one), but it is very, very good as a Scarf cleaner. Again, you could go either way on Amaura, but she leans up imo.
Definitely. Life Orb Skill Link STAB Fury Swipes hits like several small trucks, but the best aspect of Aipom is its Speed tier. The fact that it gets such godly coverage as stuff like Knock Off, U-Turn, Gunk Shot, etc. kinda makes me wonder why it's so low (probs all the fighting nonsense but w/e). 16/17 in an attack stat is nothing to trifle with (see: Chinchou, Croagunk) and coupled with Life Orb, a great STAB, god-tier coverage and similar speed, Aipom fully deserves the move, and is on par with such things as Slowpoke and Floon (personally I'd put it in B with Scrafty and them but baby steps)
Karrablast -> C-? Yeah
Again, no questions. That No Guard is scary, man. Scarfablast is one of the hidden gems of LC imo.
In response to Pancham, I totally agree on Elekid, but not Amaura.
Elekid -> Lower (probs C+ish)? Yeah
Imo the only thing keeping Kid so high is that god-tier speed. Its abilities are crap since the only sleeper is Foongus. While MixKid is dangerous, it suffers from the power drop that going mixed has. Its coverage is pretty iffy, Cross Chop is cool if you like missing and Fighting types are already everywhere, the elemental punches are pweak, and its special options are limited to electric attacks, signal beam, and HP. It also gets uber walled by the Pumpkin, which is becoming more and more of a problem. You could probably keep Kid in B- for being a sweet revenge killer (20 Speed is no joke) but he's leaning downward to me.
Amaura -> Lower? Nah
Amaura, I will grant you, is a bit of a mixed bag. That typing is literally worse than rush hour traffic with a minivan full of screaming children and Radio Disney. On the other hand, however, Amaura is great for a couple reasons. Amaura runs an excellent Scarf set, and the addition of Earth Power only sweetens the sugar bowl. Amaura can run 14 Speed without a speed boosting nature, which is cool cause then it reaches 17 in SpA. The real calling card for Amaura is those Refrigerate boosted attacks. Amaura has room to run Hyper Beam as an emergency out against fatmons along with Hyper Voice/Nature Power (HV hits through subs, NP can't be Sucker Punched). Amaura does have some significant flaws, it does need a bit of team support (just a fighting resist but pls who doesn't have one), but it is very, very good as a Scarf cleaner. Again, you could go either way on Amaura, but she leans up imo.
Elekid is right where it should be at B-. Elekid is a great mon with god tier speed, decent power, great coverage, and pivoting ability. Hitting 20 speed lets it revenge kill a good amount of the meta, and it can always Volt Switch out of unfavorable match-ups. Its wide coverage gives it very few safe switch-ins, as it will often carry Hidden Power Grass for Drilbur and Chinchou. Psychic lets it OHKO Mienfoo after Knock Off, it kills Pawniard with Cross Chop, and beats Fletch with its STAB. It's a great check to fast hard hitting mons like Gastly, Archen, Doduo, etc. Elekid has become nearly a staple of Sticky Web teams (which have gained popularity recently), as it can outspeed mons without relying on webs and checks nearly everything that beats Sticky Web strategies. (The aforementioned flying types and Gastly) Elekid does have flaws, in that it's far from the strongest special attacker and is quite frail. However, just the amount of Pokemon it checks helps outshine those weaknesses and should keep it in B-.
some people are probably going to disagree with this but nominating wynaut from B- ------> C+
I feel it has been this way every since tite left, and it should have dropped a long time ago, but with VoltTurn everywhere and it facing stiff competition from gothita and diglett, it is now especially worthy of a drop. Most defensive pokemon that it checks can use a status move and give it trouble, and ends up being dead weight in some matches, when gothita and diglett will almost always pressure the opposing team in some way.
I feel it has been this way every since tite left, and it should have dropped a long time ago, but with VoltTurn everywhere and it facing stiff competition from gothita and diglett, it is now especially worthy of a drop. Most defensive pokemon that it checks can use a status move and give it trouble, and ends up being dead weight in some matches, when gothita and diglett will almost always pressure the opposing team in some way.
SECONDING WYNAUT TO C-
Honestly, why is Wynaut even B-? Wynaut faces stiff competition from other prominent Psychic-types in the LC Metagame, such as Slowpoke, or Gothita (which obviously outshine Wynaut by a significant amount). Wynaut is a really outclassed Shadow Tag user, Gothita greatly outclasses it as a Shadow Tagger, seeing as Gothita exerts some offensive pressure and can gain kills without sacking it, and can outspeed and kill a lot of U-Turn and Volt Switch users, UNLIKE WYNAUT. Wynaut struggles against the many U-Turn, Volt Switch, and Knock Off users in the tier. Wynaut just doesn't deserve to be in C-Rank when the likes of Slowpoke are there. Also, the definition of C definitely fits Wynaut much better than the definition of B.
Reserved for Pokemon who are great in the LC metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than of those above it that affects how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential.
- Wynaut's flaws are going to deteriorate your team more than they will help your team out. It's just more Knock Off bait. All Wynaut can do is hopefully net a kill on a mon, but most pokemon have a way to get around Shadow Tag with U-turn, Volt Switch, play around it with mixed sets (lol), or just damage it with a Knock Off.
Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the LC metagame, but have just as notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective in LC. C rank Pokemon tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon.
From what I just explained, Wynaut's flaws obviously prevent it from being as good as it was during the Meditite era, as it provided an amazing counter to it. But now that Meditite's gone, Wynaut really has no role in the current Metagame and even in post-Meditite XY, so honestly, it should've dropped a long time ago. But that time is now.
rip wynaut
Timburr --> S
Timburr is absolutely amazing rn. Bulk Up is the best win condition in the game that sets up on half the meta and kills almost all of it at +1. Even things that are supposed to check it like Croagunk become set up bait because of how bulky it is. it's also a fantastic status deterrent - if I'm using something like Ferroseed, I have to think twice before clicking Thunder Wave so Timburr doesn't get a Guts boost. Its low Speed isn't even that big of an issue since a) it lives any attack thanks to its great bulk and b) it has Mach Punch. this all doesn't even take into consideration the fact that it requires zero support to do its job, essentially providing its own support by coming in and Knocking off stuff early game. A 4 attacks set is equally irritating, being able to mess with most Fightin checks with either Ice punch or Poison Jab. Timburr is one of those mons that you can put on pretty much any team in any playstyle with next to no downsides, a characteristic which I think defines an S-rank mon.
Timburr is absolutely amazing rn. Bulk Up is the best win condition in the game that sets up on half the meta and kills almost all of it at +1. Even things that are supposed to check it like Croagunk become set up bait because of how bulky it is. it's also a fantastic status deterrent - if I'm using something like Ferroseed, I have to think twice before clicking Thunder Wave so Timburr doesn't get a Guts boost. Its low Speed isn't even that big of an issue since a) it lives any attack thanks to its great bulk and b) it has Mach Punch. this all doesn't even take into consideration the fact that it requires zero support to do its job, essentially providing its own support by coming in and Knocking off stuff early game. A 4 attacks set is equally irritating, being able to mess with most Fightin checks with either Ice punch or Poison Jab. Timburr is one of those mons that you can put on pretty much any team in any playstyle with next to no downsides, a characteristic which I think defines an S-rank mon.
I'm actually seconding the above. Timburr is seriously bulky, has a metric ton of amazing moves, one of the best abilities it could ever ask for, and is one of the most agonizing set-up sweepers to face in the game. If given an opening, Timburr will make long and brutal work of your team after a Bulk Up, healing off the damage from normally fierce attacks like Fletch's Acrobatics with Drain Punch. It can be revenged by stuff like Abra and Gothita, but only a small amount of team support makes them easy to take out. Timburr is just as easy to slap on a team as Mienfoo is in my opinion, and like its Fighting-type brother, Timburr has a lot of flexibility in its fourth move slot, being able to opt for stuff like Stone Edge an Poison Jab and whatnot. I think he belongs in S-rank.
If you use the set that I use with 14 SpD, Abra's Psychic only has a 6.3% chance to OHKO you. Gothita also won't be that big of a problem for Timburr with this spread. The reason why I like this spread, aside form the reasons above, is because Bulk Up raises its Attack anyways, so the drop isn't too damaging, so, in the long run, the added bulk is much better to maintain Timburr's sweep.
That being said, I also agree with the rise of Timburr into S-rank, and I have agreed with this since it was first proposed a month or so ago. Timburr is easily the best wincon in the meta right now, and is actually a mile ahead of its competition in this department. Other wincons like Zigzagoon, Omanyte, Fletchling, etc. all require a substantial amount of support compared to Timburr.
Timburr -> S? Yeah
After playing with Timburr for a while and seeing the absolute terror that Bulk Up Timburr wrecks in the LC Room Tournament that's going on right now I have to
Timburr is a great pokemon but I don't think its worthy of S. Timburr is not as good as pawniard and mienfoo, and is definitely not better than fletchling or Chinchou. The definition of A rank fits it better, as it can sweep most of the tier and has few flaws. But its positive to not outshine its negatives as much as pawniard or mienfoo.
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Do you happen to have any specific examples, or are you just sorta putting that out there? From what I've seen and read, Timburr has many positives and is very good at being slapped onto teams.
- Status