Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V2 - Check Post #2500 PG. 100

[PlatypusPrincess]

unranked -> d

Pachirisu (F) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
- Nuzzle
- U-turn
- Super Fang
- Quick Attack

im actually serious about this. in a tier which is dominated by electric-types because of their pivoting ability while also being useful to check top-tier threats such as keldeo, azumarill and talonflame, pachirisu stands out as the best counter to these electric-types, most notably raikou, rotom-w and thundurus-i. While many grounds and electric resists do exist in the tier, I find that pachirisu has a niche because of the fact that it is immune to volt switch (which means the afore-mentioned electric types cannot volt switch their way out and maintain momentum for the opposing team), while still not being hit for SE damage by rotom-w's hydro pump or raikou/thundurus-i's hp ice, making pachirisu so much more of a reliable counter to electric-types compared to grounds. Furthermore, paralysis support is really the absolute bane of offense atm, offense relies so much on their speed to revenge-kill or set-up, and paralysing them is effectively killing them as they are usually ended up as death fodder once paralysed. Super Fang is also another huge boon that pachirisu has, it softens up pokemon that would otherwise be reliant on having full health to check certain threats, such as Landorus-T and Rotom-W while also not being entirely deadweight vs stall because it can do a really large chunk to them and forcing them to recover their health more often. U-turn is chosen over Volt Switch because nothing is immune to it, unlike volt switch where grounds can simply waltz and prevent it from stealing away momentum. Quick Attack is kinda filler but it always fills good to kill that 1hp sash breloom/azelf with a pachirisu.

If the above paragraph does not make you feel awed by the fact that pachirisu has an actual small niche in the tier, 60/90 special bulk on paper isn't really that pathetic.

here is a ok replay on pachirisu's bulk: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-218072661
252+ SpA Choice Specs Omastar Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Pachirisu in Rain: 210-247 (64.8 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
yum
some calcs from the strongest special wallbreakers in the tier + electric-types

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Pachirisu in Sun: 133-157 (41 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Pachirisu: 93-109 (28.7 - 33.6%) -- 0.3% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Pachirisu: 138-163 (42.5 - 50.3%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
232 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Pachirisu: 117-138 (36.1 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Pachirisu: 142-169 (43.8 - 52.1%) -- 17.2% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Heatran Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Pachirisu: 120-142 (37 - 43.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Pachirisu: 105-125 (32.4 - 38.5%) -- 97.2% chance to 3HKO

0 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Pachirisu: 64-76 (19.7 - 23.4%) -- possible 5HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Pachirisu: 86-101 (26.5 - 31.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Raikou Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Pachirisu: 62-74 (19.1 - 22.8%) -- possible 5HKO



fits in this category imo

tl;dr pachi has a small niche in being the best electric-counter that existed O _ O

shoutouts to SnowCristal! for using this and enlightening me

If you post something ridiculous like that it would be wise to have an impressive ladder rank or an example of someone with a high ladder rank using this thing. I would say you should ladder a little bit, show some high level replays and then you can come again and post about that, because if you can back up your claims with a shit ton of high level replays it is more likely that people will take you serious. Or it might change your mind and makes you think that it isn't good. It is a win win situation for everyone.

 

[tigers jaw]

Why are ppl screaming for a pachi blacklist lol? Its not like there's 20 idiots wanting it ranked and not listening to reasoning. Just forget about it

Anyway, onto Jirachi. This thing's getting a lot of usage in SPL (seriously, go check, you'll be surprised) for good reason, it's the best Fairy-c(ounter)heck there is, is a great Lati switchin, has a million sets, brings a lot of utility to the team, setting rocks, spreading status and outskilling with Iron Head. It has a million viable possibilities as far as move selections go, some of the more underrated ones being Healing Wish and Natural Gift (seriously try NG Jirachi lol).

Mentioned it going to A a while back and it's just been brought up as a point of discussion, so obviously I'd support a move up.

 

[DarkNostalgia]

I support Jirachi to A, tbh I'm surprised it isn't already. To keep this post short, it's a great answer to loads of stuff in the meta rn. Metagross, Altaria, Diancie, Serperior, not to mention it brings TONS of utility to the table. There's things like the regular stuff 'rachi runs like Scarf, subtoxic and the rarer paraflinch or SR sets, but don't forget things like apicot NG heatran lure or subcm rachi. It also has a great movepool, and it should be on the same level as celebi imo.

TL;DR loads of utility, checks loads of things, serene grace flinch+para shenanigans ftw

 

[Mistress Remilia]

Cobalion from C+ to B-: With its pretty cool typing & stats, Cobalion makes for a great support, and an exellent choice for VoltTurns teams. Its ability to cockblock Bisharp, set up rocks, or taunt fast give him lot of utility. Its decent defense allows him to take hits w/out much trouble, making him a good Knock Off Absorber. It also has a pretty decent STAB Combo & Offensive Presence, so it isn't passive either.

Absol Mega from C to C+: Yes, it is very frail. But seriously, Mega Absol can be pretty damn useful in the right team. Its ability to check Sableye Mega is awesome, the access to Knock Off + Play Rough is enjoyable, Pass SD to your partners & keep momentum with BP. Not mentionning its exellent speed tier, outspeeding the average fast pokemon who reaches 110 Speed, and also outspeed Adamant CB Burd with Sucker Punch.

Magneton from B- to C: Greninja is gone, there's next to no reason to use Magneton over Magnezone now, except Flame Bird but that's it, simple.

Cofagrigus from D to C-/C: Cofagrigus is pretty useful in this metagame. It forces switches from a lot of things due to Mummy, and its huge defense allows him to counter big mons like M-Lopunny, M-Metagross, Azumarill & Scizor.

Also, Huntail should be D instead of Gorebyss ( Or maybe C- ) for being a better smashpasser due to his access to priority with Sucker Punch.

 

[Guidorealmsmc]

Cobalion from C+ to B-: With its pretty cool typing & stats, Cobalion makes for a great support, and an exellent choice for VoltTurns teams. Its ability to cockblock Bisharp, set up rocks, or taunt fast give him lot of utility. Its decent defense allows him to take hits w/out much trouble, making him a good Knock Off Absorber. It also has a pretty decent STAB Combo & Offensive Presence, so it isn't passive either.

Absol Mega from C to C+: Yes, it is very frail. But seriously, Mega Absol can be pretty damn useful in the right team. Its ability to check Sableye Mega is awesome, the access to Knock Off + Play Rough is enjoyable, Pass SD to your partners & keep momentum with BP. Not mentionning its exellent speed tier, outspeeding the average fast pokemon who reaches 110 Speed, and also outspeed Adamant CB Burd with Sucker Punch.

Magneton from B- to C: Greninja is gone, there's next to no reason to use Magneton over Magnezone now, except Flame Bird but that's it, simple.

Cofagrigus from D to C-/C: Cofagrigus is pretty useful in this metagame. It forces switches from a lot of things due to Mummy, and its huge defense allows him to counter big mons like M-Lopunny, M-Metagross, Azumarill & Scizor.

Also, Huntail should be D instead of Gorebyss ( Or maybe C- ) for being a better smashpasser due to his access to priority with Sucker Punch.

Mistress Remilia I second these nominations but Mega absol is a very shaky sableye check as foul play shreds it. I'd honestly put magneton to D.

 

[p2]

There's plenty of reason to still use Magneton mainly because it outspeeds Tornadus-T, +1 Adamant Gyarados, +1 Adamant Dragonite, +1 Adamant Altaria, Talonflame, Starmie, Raikou and M-Houndoom. Just because one threat got banned, that doesn't mean it should drop. Despite its horrible bulk, it's still a good option because it outspeeds those threats that Scarf Magnezone can't, while still providing valuable steel trapping support. B- rank is already a good enough place for Magneton and as I've mentioned, the advantages it offer are just so good and should definitely be taken into consideration with teambuilding.

 

[Ptyra]

Charizard X -> S
Zard X is a very dangerous threat in the meta. His typing and his versatility make him very hard to switch in. After a DD, only a few Pokemon can beat it.
Even Offensive Mega Altaria and Scarf Lando-T can't switch in safely.

Calcs

If Mega Altaria switches in Flare Bitz :
220 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Altaria: 117-138 (40.2 - 47.4%) -- 53.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

If Mega Altaria switches in DD :
+1 220 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Altaria: 176-207 (60.4 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Altaria Earthquake vs. 104 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 194-230 (60 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Altaria can't OHKO back even after Flare Bitz recoil, he needs SR to achieve an OHKO on Zard X.


Against Landorus-T (Jolly Zard X outspeeds Scarf Lando-T at +1) :
220 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-T: 279-328 (87.4 - 102.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (18.8% without SR)
220 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 199-235 (52 - 61.5%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Lando-T needs to be Defensive to beat DD Zard X.

Moreover, Zard X can cripple his DD's checks with his WoW set (Hippodown, Slowbro, Defensive Lando-T, Rhyperior, DD Mega Altaria...). S-rank material imo.

 

[Kurona]

Charizard X for S is something I've thought about from time to time but I'm not entirely sure on it myself. It did drop for a reason - Altarianite, Slowbronite, increased opportunity cost - but it has seen some good new sets since then and a lot of success. I don't know; I feel like I wouldn't strongly support it either way, but both A+ and S seem right to me. Just don't drop it.

Also... much as Recreant will murder me for this, Mistress Remilia Mega Absol shouldn't rise and isn't good in the current meta. This has been discussed before, but it's difficult to set up, it has mediocre offensive stats and despite now having access to Play Rouch, the mediocre base power with no multiplier from STAB or an ability really prevents it from doing well. The other meta shifts since ORAS have only hurt it, and if it were up to me it'd actually drop due to massive opportunity cost, how difficult it is to fit in a team and just how little it does in practice. It needs a ton of support and at the end of the day there's better glass cannons and set-up cleaners I'd rather use.
I'd also like to note that "countering" Sableye isn't that brilliant of a niche anymore due to usage and viability of it decreasing. I can find a ton of other answers like Talonflame, Charizard and any fairy, all of which I'd much rather use instead of something which fears a ton of things in stall while trying to set-up.

 

[DarkNostalgia]

Yes, I've made a post about this before, and as much as I love Absol it should stay where it is. Say we talk about the SD set. What does Absol set up on? The only things I can think off are like 'mons that are passive as hell like Chansey or stuff like choice-locked gothitelle/latios. Absol was ranked higher iirc because yes, it checked Sableye, but when you consider that 1. Sableye isn't as 'everywhere' as it used to be, and 2. There are many other checks out there who are still viable, and unlike absol, can perform a multitude of roles and have defensive presence, think Talonflame, zards, fairies, keldeo etc.

Really dunno about Zard X though. Quite a versatile mega tbh, and at +1 nothing really takes it on bar hippowdown, defensive lando-t, slowbro. Immunity to WoW is great, making Zard X a great check to things like Metagross, Bisharp, Rotom-W, Lopunny, Sableye. I actually have been wanting to 'want' zard x to go up to s for a while, but since I don't have the most experience with it and i dun wanna theorymon stuff, I'll leave it to people who have more experience :)

Magneton should stay where it is - the speed over magnezone is really important once you take into account the fact that magneton outspeeds torn-t, d-dance gyara, altaria etc with a scarf where as magnezone fails to do so.

 

[TFL]

There's plenty of reason to still use Magneton mainly because it outspeeds Tornadus-T, +1 Adamant Gyarados, +1 Adamant Dragonite, +1 Adamant Altaria, Talonflame, Starmie, Raikou and M-Houndoom. Just because one threat got banned, that doesn't mean it should drop. Despite its horrible bulk, it's still a good option because it outspeeds those threats that Scarf Magnezone can't, while still providing valuable steel trapping support. B- rank is already a good enough place for Magneton and as I've mentioned, the advantages it offer are just so good and should definitely be taken into consideration with teambuilding.

Magneton shouldn't even be close to the B ranks. Going to go through some of the mons that you listed. +1 Adamant Gyarados: No one should be using that anymore and it can't even KO Mega Gyarados after Rocks. +1 Adamant Dragonite: You need HP Ice to do any real damage to it and then you aren't trapping Ferrothorn. +1 Adamant Altaria: Same as Gyarados, it should be running Jolly. Raikou: The heck is it doing to do? Mega Houndoom: Uncommon and you still can't kill after Rocks.

Doing what Magnezone's job, but worse, while acting as a revenge killer to 3 extra mons/a very risky switch-in to said mons is hardly a niche. I haven't used or seen this thing since Greninja left so if its ranking were up to me I'd throw it in C- or D.

 

[bludz]

Why should Altaria be running Jolly? It doesn't care all that much about outspeeding Lopunny or Manectric after 1 DD since neither is a huge threat to it anyway. I'd take the power most of the time, even if it means you are outsped by Jolly Bisharp before a DD. Edit: This is not to say that going Jolly is dumb but Adamant is certainly viable.

That said I would support Magneton dropping to C+ or C as it suffers from the same problems as Magnezone which recently dropped.

Anyway I've thought about the Zard X nomination before and I don't think it should rise. It's a great pokemon but it's similar to Talonflame because the recoil absolutely destroys its lifespan combined with a rocks weakness.

 

[heritage]

Why do so many people ping me here lol

Anyways, I've used Mega Absol on numerous occasions (and pretty much everybody knows me for that lol). It's actually a fantastic Pokemon with plenty of niches that people don't notice. It's got incredible Attack, honestly, people don't know how strong Knock Off is coming from 150 base Attack is, good Speed, a fantastic Ability, a great movepool and usable Special Attack. However, all of these positives are marked down by one particular thing. Absol HAS to knock out the opponent in one hit or it's going down. Absol is immensely frail for a Mega Pokemon, gaining 0 bulk as it Mega Evolves. This is Absol's biggest problem. There are so few opportunities to bring it in safely. A lot of its counters, such as Azumarill, Keldeo and Conkeldurr, are not only extremely common, but they can Knock Out Absol in a single hit. Most Megas can at least tank a single Super Effective hit in an emergency, but Absol cannot.

Honestly, not only is the Swords Dance set over-hyped, but it isn't even its best set. Mega Absol, in my opinion, pretty much needs Ice Beam, Fire Blast or Superpower to do its job correctly. Countering Mega Sableye is not very important anymore, since not only are there Pokemon that actually do the job better, Sableye is not on every team. In fact, it's pretty uncommon. Not to mention Sableye has a great Foul Play set that is pretty much better than the Calm Mind set. After a Swords Dance, Foul Play has a good change to OHKO Absol. Running the most common SD set of Knock Off, Sucker Punch and Play Rough, leaves you walled by a lot of common threats such as Landorus-Therain, Gliscor and Ferrothorn. (Even Tyranitar to an extent. Play Rough is not an OHKO without a Swords Dance up, and obviously, Tyranitar KOs back.)

Tl;dr: Mega Absol is a fantastic Pokemon, but it has way too many problems to have the same viability of things like Mega Pidgeot and Cobalion. It should never leave C though, just due to the niches I mentioned.


Edit @ below since I'm too lazy to write something else:

Dude just stop about Noivern. Not only is it completely shitty in OU but there is literally no reason to use it outside of Taunt. Why not use Talonflame or Thundurus? Latios gets Trick, so the point about Switcheroo is kinda moot.

 

[AM]

Boy oh boy I woke up to a bunch of craziness.

First off the promotion of Pachirisu is pretty ludicrous in my eyes cause it falls under one of those things that a lot of top ladder players and their friends would use for shits and giggles amongst themselves like Cacturne and Archeops but let's stop bashing DracoNinja for it. He/She (correct me if I'm wrong but iirc from seeing you on PS it's she) took a lot of effort and even took the effort to reply to some of the bias and baseless counter arguments that she got so please give her a break. Also that replay had Articuno in it for what I'm assuming is to check Landorus by Ox who's a top ladder player so if you don't know who they are and plan on going off of "insert good players wouldn't use this argument" touch up on the player base and then please stop making yourself look silly. Also I'm not blacklisting stuff willy nilly

Char-X shouldn't go to S because of the competition it has with M-Altaria as a Dragon Dance user, the rise of Hippowdon on balanced builds, the presence of ScarfTar making Dual STAB movesets a bit of a liability at times to run, and the fact that if it wants to get past stuff like M-Altaria and other checks and counters in a lot of cases it'll need to forgo Roost to do this, among other things. It's honestly on the verge of A rank in a general sense but the reason why it should maintain its A+ rank position is because it's still a dangerous threat to take into account for from the team-building perspective and was still able to adapt against some of these trends in a hostile meta-game. I don't feel comfortable dropping it at all but I'm sure as hell not going to feel comfortable raising it to S when you have stuff that aren't even megas like Landorus who exert more presence in the meta-game right now.

M-Absol is actually extremely mediocre and takes a ton of support to get it really going. It does well against certain offensive builds but after that it just keels over. I've stopped bothering to use it because of this support that it requires and how bad of a check it is to what it's suppose to be setting up on (aka nothing), and what it does set up on has a partner that poops on it. I'll hold my reservations for now but it really isn't that good lol and idk how people are giving themselves this notion that it should be even close to the C+ rank.

Lanturn should stay unranked because it's garbage, that's it. This niche it has is so extreme that it doesn't grab momentum in the meta-game and loses to a bunch of relevant meta-game trends like Sand Offense, Lando-I, hazard stacking playstyles so a good 50% or more of teams basically, and so forth. If it's extremely niche to the point that it's just bad then what's the point? I've used it btw so let's put that out there before someone tells me a counter argument that goes along the lines of what I just said. All these things that Lanturn does are done better by a bunch of more relevant pokemon in the meta and when combined they're highly overrated. So yeah leave this unranked.

Cobalion shouldn't rise either and I do actually enjoy using it but the teams it finds itself on are very specific and it has a lot of trouble with stuff like Hippowdon, Lando-T, Garchomp, and a lot of relevant ground types in the tier. It's a good knock off absorber but it's more so a Knock Absorber to Bisharp than anything else, which countering Bisharp on volt-turn teams is one of the main uses it has. It's not like it's gonna be going toe to toe with Knock Off Lando-I or Lando-T ._. but yeah Cobalion is fine where it is.

 

[BCE]

DarkNostalgia, just to make it clear to me, so basically, Mega pidgeot with almost same bulky as noivern, less speed than noivern, with super limited movepool with obligatory Hurricane, heatwave, hp ice and last slot it choose defog / roost / u-turn, with same weakness to stealth rock, with strange typing, only one stab ( this thing REALLY should have got boomburst), neutral to all priorities, is C+ just because 100% acc hurricane with the drawnback of also be 100% acc to other player and 135 sp atak ?

scarfed keldeo can revenge kill mega tweety while noivern resist it
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pidgeot: 216-255 (70.1 - 82.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And i really cant understand why all of you say that noivern sucks because hurricane acc sucks when tornadus suffers from the same thing. Are you using noivern in rain team or have someone to use rain dance ? use hurricane, if no, use Air slash

252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Keldeo: 330-390 (102.1 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

it was said noivern fails to kill landorus, use HP Ice exactly like the far superior pidgeot

252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Landorus-T: 384-452 (100.5 - 118.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

and you can choose to play with switcheroo, flamethrower, taunt, focus blast, boomburst, u-turn, shadow ball, while, again, Mega pidgeot all have the same possible moves

But anyone of you guys might ask: "but.... but... noivern is locked in one attack, is forced to switch and kill itself in stealth rock" = switcheroo cripple the other player and unlock all other moves, nothing is more satisfaying to give choice specs to chansey / clefable / sylveon / azumarill or other thing that need to set up

"But... but... draco meteor drops its status and forces him to switch" = are you really saying that no dragon should ever use draco meteor because of that ?

i would be way more scared to face a noivern, because i dont know what the fuck this thing will do, than mega pidgeot, i simply switch to tyranitar / heatran and laughs in the face of mega tweety, noivern can lock these two with choice specs and kill try to YOLO focus blast kill them or switch to something safe.

 

[Alfalfa]

I do not if it is just me, but I cannot see Shuckle a rank above Pangoro. While the amount of solid wallbreakers has increased, Pangoro can still break through Fairy Types (especially Clefable) that other wallbreakers, such as Hydreigon, may have difficulties breaking through. Sticky Web Offense can be effective against certain teams, but it is highly match-up reliant and Shuckle has major issues with Defoggers like Lati@s that can remove Sticky Web easily, general passiveness that can encourage Pokemon like Keldeo to come in for free, and the rise of Magic Bouncers like Mega Diancie and Mega Sableye that can stop Shuckle cold. In my opinion, their ranking should be swapped: Pangoro up to C (or even higher), and Shuckle down to C-.

 

[AM]

DarkNostalgia, just to make it clear to me, so basically, Mega pidgeot with almost same bulky as noivern, less speed than noivern, with super limited movepool with obligatory Hurricane, heatwave, hp ice and last slot it choose defog / roost / u-turn, with same weakness to stealth rock, with strange typing, only one stab ( this thing REALLY should have got boomburst), neutral to all priorities, is C+ just because 100% acc hurricane with the drawnback of also be 100% acc to other player and 135 sp atak ?

scarfed keldeo can revenge kill mega tweety while noivern resist it
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pidgeot: 216-255 (70.1 - 82.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And i really cant understand why all of you say that noivern sucks because hurricane acc sucks when tornadus suffers from the same thing. Are you using noivern in rain team or have someone to use rain dance ? use hurricane, if no, use Air slash

252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Keldeo: 330-390 (102.1 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

it was said noivern fails to kill landorus, use HP Ice exactly like the far superior pidgeot

252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Landorus-T: 384-452 (100.5 - 118.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

and you can choose to play with switcheroo, flamethrower, taunt, focus blast, boomburst, u-turn, shadow ball, while, again, Mega pidgeot all have the same possible moves

But anyone of you guys might ask: "but.... but... noivern is locked in one attack, is forced to switch and kill itself in stealth rock" = switcheroo cripple the other player and unlock all other moves, nothing is more satisfaying to give choice specs to chansey / clefable / sylveon / azumarill or other thing that need to set up

"But... but... draco meteor drops its status and forces him to switch" = are you really saying that no dragon should ever use draco meteor because of that ?

i would be way more scared to face a noivern, because i dont know what the fuck this thing will do, than mega pidgeot, i simply switch to tyranitar / heatran and laughs in the face of mega tweety, noivern can lock these two with choice specs and kill try to YOLO focus blast kill them or switch to something safe.

Tornadus-T has Regenerator, a consistent AV set, more consistency in its movepool which is a factor in why it's much higher in the rankings cause it poses a much more serious threat in the meta-game. Torn-T, like every other Pokemon, can run HP Ice. This isn't an exclusive aspect to Noivern.

Mega Pidgeot has a Work Up Set with either 2 attacks, Roost, Work Up or a stall-breaker variant with Hurricane, Refresh, Roost, Work Up so yes Mega Pidgeot does have some merits over Noivern to warrant use. A lack of versatility doesn't mandate that something is bad, see Keldeo, so this isn't a very strong point unless it's something like M-Glalie where it's so linear and has flaws that tack on to this linearity. Noivern is fine where it's at.

I do not if it is just me, but I cannot see Shuckle a rank above Pangoro. While the amount of solid wallbreakers has increased, Pangoro can still break through Fairy Types (especially Clefable) that other wallbreakers, such as Hydreigon, may have difficulties breaking through. Sticky Web Offense can be effective against certain teams, but it is highly match-up reliant and Shuckle has major issues with Defoggers like Lati@s that can remove Sticky Web easily, general passiveness that can encourage Pokemon like Keldeo to come in for free, and the rise of Magic Bouncers like Mega Diancie and Mega Sableye that can stop Shuckle cold. In my opinion, their ranking should be swapped: Pangoro up to C (or even higher), and Shuckle down to C-.

If a web team is built to the point it doesn't include pursuit trappers or ways to deter these hazard removers then the web builder should re-consider their team options. Don't use the idea that all web teams fall under this same idea that they're completely prone to all these flaws you have stated as such a huge issue. It originally dropped for these issues but to myself it shouldn't drop because although rare the web playstyle can be effective on select teams and Shuckle is the epitome of the style itself. I have no opinion on Pangoro but just wanted to point this stuff out.

 

[Synchronation]

I was absent for a long time because of a few issues, but after getting back and testing some stuff I would like to talk about this Pokemon:

Feraligatr to A-:
Its new ability made this starter from gen2 to one of the most threatening non-mega DragonDancers in this meta.
Sheer Force + LO allows him to deal massive damage against many common Pokemon in the tier. Water and Dark are a nearly perfect coverage which hits most threats at least neutral and the few who do resist them can be handled by teammates or a third coverage move.

This is all good and logical, but the big question is: Why using him instead of Crawdaunt, Gyarados or Mega-Gyarados?

The difference between Feraligatr and Crawdaunt was already explained, so I keep it short here:
Crawdaunt is more of a wallbreaker with a great STAB in Knock Off and Feraligator is a lategame-sweeper. Totally different roles.

Looking at Gyarados (especially Mega), they do nearly the same. Gyarados has Intimidate to make setting up easier, useful resistances in Mach Punch and acts as a check to Keldeo. Mega-Gyarados has STAB on Crunch, can stallbreak with Taunt-sets and looses its Fighting-resistence in exchange for a useful dark-resist (Sucker Punch).
Feraligatr has 3 main traits in which it actually outclasses those two! The first one is the raw power he posseses. 105 attack are looking bad in comparison to 155, right?
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 164-192 (43 - 50.3%) -- 1.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 141-166 (37 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

As you can see, Feraligatr does deal more damage than Mega-Gyarados WITHOUT a positive nature on attack. Not mentioning that most Gyarados run jolly now, the difference in damage is very noticeable. The only move that is stronger on Gyarados is Crunch thanks to its STAB. While Gyarados can set up easier thanks to Intimidate, Feraligatr is harder to wall after he gets the chance to boost, and it's not like he has to wait until lategame to do something because he can switch in and out more often thanks to its neutrality to Stealth Rock.

Gyarados takes 25% damage everytime he switches in. This can be bothersome especially if you are not mega-evolving because of an opposing Keldeo for example or too much offensive pressure. Feraligatr doesn't have to worry too much about that, which makes it a better check to HO than Gyarados. The third factor makes it even more difficult to deal with, even further increasing its match-up against offensive teams.

Feraligatr is very versatile. Waterfall and Crunch are standard and should always be used, but the other 2 moves are basically free to choose making him very unpredictable. DD is useful and probably its best trick, but an agility-set is a pain to face for fast offense because it outspeeds any scarfer after one boost and enough power to OHKO nearly every threat bar MegaMeta. A SD-set can be useful against stall, but this is usually done better by Crawdaunt.
Even the simple DD-set is not easy to stop without knowing the fourth move. Ice Punch lets it beat Altaria and Chesnaught, Aquajet lets you outspeed and kill Talonflame (after one dance) and can troll Bisharp or other priority-users, Substitute lets it set up on Scald- and other status-users (but Gyarados can do that too) and Superpower kills Mega-Gyarados and deals good damage against Keldeo. Azumarill can only be beaten by the niche move Iron Tail, but that is usually not worth it and having a check to the little bunny is better.

Feraligatr's sheer power, SR-neutrality and its small, but great movepool makes him a very legitimate choice over Gyarados and even over Mega-Gyarados. It has a better matchup against offense while Mega-Gyarados destroys stall easier, which is the main difference between these two very similar dragondancers. With so many common traits, even some in which Feraligatr outclasses Gyarados and no opportunity cost in using a mega I don't see any reasons he should be ranked lower than the regular Gyarados.

 

[Guidorealmsmc]

I was absent for a long time because of a few issues, but after getting back and testing some stuff I would like to talk about this Pokemon:

Feraligatr to A-:
Its new ability made this starter from gen2 to one of the most threatening non-mega DragonDancers in this meta.
Sheer Force + LO allows him to deal massive damage against many common Pokemon in the tier. Water and Dark are a nearly perfect coverage which hits most threats at least neutral and the few who do resist them can be handled by teammates or a third coverage move.

This is all good and logical, but the big question is: Why using him instead of Crawdaunt, Gyarados or Mega-Gyarados?

The difference between Feraligatr and Crawdaunt was already explained, so I keep it short here:
Crawdaunt is more of a wallbreaker with a great STAB in Knock Off and Feraligator is a lategame-sweeper. Totally different roles.

Looking at Gyarados (especially Mega), they do nearly the same. Gyarados has Intimidate to make setting up easier, useful resistances in Mach Punch and acts as a check to Keldeo. Mega-Gyarados has STAB on Crunch, can stallbreak with Taunt-sets and looses its Fighting-resistence in exchange for a useful dark-resist (Sucker Punch).
Feraligatr has 3 main traits in which it actually outclasses those two! The first one is the raw power he posseses. 105 attack are looking bad in comparison to 155, right?
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 164-192 (43 - 50.3%) -- 1.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 141-166 (37 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

As you can see, Feraligatr does deal more damage than Mega-Gyarados WITHOUT a positive nature on attack. Not mentioning that most Gyarados run jolly now, the difference in damage is very noticeable. The only move that is stronger on Gyarados is Crunch thanks to its STAB. While Gyarados can set up easier thanks to Intimidate, Feraligatr is harder to wall after he gets the chance to boost, and it's not like he has to wait until lategame to do something because he can switch in and out more often thanks to its neutrality to Stealth Rock.

Gyarados takes 25% damage everytime he switches in. This can be bothersome especially if you are not mega-evolving because of an opposing Keldeo for example or too much offensive pressure. Feraligatr doesn't have to worry too much about that, which makes it a better check to HO than Gyarados. The third factor makes it even more difficult to deal with, even further increasing its match-up against offensive teams.

Feraligatr is very versatile. Waterfall and Crunch are standard and should always be used, but the other 2 moves are basically free to choose making him very unpredictable. DD is useful and probably its best trick, but an agility-set is a pain to face for fast offense because it outspeeds any scarfer after one boost and enough power to OHKO nearly every threat bar MegaMeta. A SD-set can be useful against stall, but this is usually done better by Crawdaunt.
Even the simple DD-set is not easy to stop without knowing the fourth move. Ice Punch lets it beat Altaria and Chesnaught, Aquajet lets you outspeed and kill Talonflame (after one dance) and can troll Bisharp or other priority-users, Substitute lets it set up on Scald- and other status-users (but Gyarados can do that too) and Superpower kills Mega-Gyarados and deals good damage against Keldeo. Azumarill can only be beaten by the niche move Iron Tail, but that is usually not worth it and having a check to the little bunny is better.

Feraligatr's sheer power, SR-neutrality and its small, but great movepool makes him a very legitimate choice over Gyarados and even over Mega-Gyarados. It has a better matchup against offense while Mega-Gyarados destroys stall easier, which is the main difference between these two very similar dragondancers. With so many common traits, even some in which Feraligatr outclasses Gyarados and no opportunity cost in using a mega I don't see any reasons he should be ranked lower than the regular Gyarados.

I wouldn't disagree with this if you nommed it to be in the B ranks somewhere. A- is way too high and you never mentioned any of gatr's flaws which is it's competition from gyarados,mega altaria and zard x, It also only has 1 stab move and it can't break through bulky waters. And about gatr being versatile is kinda false as it will almost always be DD or SD or maybe double dance.

 

[MilkyWay]

I was absent for a long time because of a few issues, but after getting back and testing some stuff I would like to talk about this Pokemon:

Feraligatr to A-:
Its new ability made this starter from gen2 to one of the most threatening non-mega DragonDancers in this meta.
Sheer Force + LO allows him to deal massive damage against many common Pokemon in the tier. Water and Dark are a nearly perfect coverage which hits most threats at least neutral and the few who do resist them can be handled by teammates or a third coverage move.

This is all good and logical, but the big question is: Why using him instead of Crawdaunt, Gyarados or Mega-Gyarados?

The difference between Feraligatr and Crawdaunt was already explained, so I keep it short here:
Crawdaunt is more of a wallbreaker with a great STAB in Knock Off and Feraligator is a lategame-sweeper. Totally different roles.

Looking at Gyarados (especially Mega), they do nearly the same. Gyarados has Intimidate to make setting up easier, useful resistances in Mach Punch and acts as a check to Keldeo. Mega-Gyarados has STAB on Crunch, can stallbreak with Taunt-sets and looses its Fighting-resistence in exchange for a useful dark-resist (Sucker Punch).
Feraligatr has 3 main traits in which it actually outclasses those two! The first one is the raw power he posseses. 105 attack are looking bad in comparison to 155, right?
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 164-192 (43 - 50.3%) -- 1.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 141-166 (37 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

As you can see, Feraligatr does deal more damage than Mega-Gyarados WITHOUT a positive nature on attack. Not mentioning that most Gyarados run jolly now, the difference in damage is very noticeable. The only move that is stronger on Gyarados is Crunch thanks to its STAB. While Gyarados can set up easier thanks to Intimidate, Feraligatr is harder to wall after he gets the chance to boost, and it's not like he has to wait until lategame to do something because he can switch in and out more often thanks to its neutrality to Stealth Rock.

Gyarados takes 25% damage everytime he switches in. This can be bothersome especially if you are not mega-evolving because of an opposing Keldeo for example or too much offensive pressure. Feraligatr doesn't have to worry too much about that, which makes it a better check to HO than Gyarados. The third factor makes it even more difficult to deal with, even further increasing its match-up against offensive teams.

Feraligatr is very versatile. Waterfall and Crunch are standard and should always be used, but the other 2 moves are basically free to choose making him very unpredictable. DD is useful and probably its best trick, but an agility-set is a pain to face for fast offense because it outspeeds any scarfer after one boost and enough power to OHKO nearly every threat bar MegaMeta. A SD-set can be useful against stall, but this is usually done better by Crawdaunt.
Even the simple DD-set is not easy to stop without knowing the fourth move. Ice Punch lets it beat Altaria and Chesnaught, Aquajet lets you outspeed and kill Talonflame (after one dance) and can troll Bisharp or other priority-users, Substitute lets it set up on Scald- and other status-users (but Gyarados can do that too) and Superpower kills Mega-Gyarados and deals good damage against Keldeo. Azumarill can only be beaten by the niche move Iron Tail, but that is usually not worth it and having a check to the little bunny is better.

Feraligatr's sheer power, SR-neutrality and its small, but great movepool makes him a very legitimate choice over Gyarados and even over Mega-Gyarados. It has a better matchup against offense while Mega-Gyarados destroys stall easier, which is the main difference between these two very similar dragondancers. With so many common traits, even some in which Feraligatr outclasses Gyarados and no opportunity cost in using a mega I don't see any reasons he should be ranked lower than the regular Gyarados.

I agree with all of this completely but A- Rank seems too high. I think somewhere around B is good for now

 

[Synchronation]

I wouldn't disagree with this if you nommed it to be in the B ranks somewhere. A- is way too high and you never mentioned any of gatr's flaws which is it's competition from gyarados,mega altaria and zard x, It also only has 1 stab move and it can't break through bulky waters. And about gatr being versatile is kinda false as it will almost always be DD or SD or maybe double dance.

My whole post is about its competition with Gyarados. Please read it again.
Also, Feraligatr has different checks than Charizard X and Altaria, so comparing them just because of DD is not justified. Also, he doesn't take up your mega-slot and can even be used along other dragondancers.
Also:
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 179-213 (45.4 - 54%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

While bulky waters can be troublesome you can decide to use Sub to set up on them like I mentioned but this is not special about Feraligatr which is why I didn't elaborated it. Azumarill and Keldeo are the only really troublesome water-types, for all the others he can run a coverage move, sub or team-support.

EDIT:
My point in nominating it for A- is the fact that it is not outclassed by Gyarados and therefore should not be ranked lower than it.
They are very similar but different to a point in which it depends on your team who you should choose. It is like asking if you should use Charizard X or Altaria (the DD-set). Both are Megas with Dragon Dance, but still too different to say that one outclasses the other (I remember the conversations about them).
If the RestTalk-set of Gyarados is the reason why it should still be ranked higher, then I would agree to rank Feraligatr in B+ but definitely not 2 subranks lower. I don't think that this set alone makes Gyarados so much better, and that is why I still nominate Feraligatr to A-.

If there are more reasons why Gyarados should be ranked higher then I would like to hear them. Otherwise B or B+ don't make sense at all.

 

[Agent Gibbs]

Definitely agreeing with TFL that Magneton should drop and it should drop hard. It really is a worse Magnezone 99% of the time, and as TFL has already explained, it's not even that great at checking some of the few things that it outspeeds that Magnezone can't. Before it got B- Rank because it was lucky enough to outspeed the best Pokemon in the metagame, and even that was kind of a stretch in my opinion. Right now I'm looking through B- and the C Ranks, and they're chock full of things that I think are pretty blah but still more useful than Magneton. As has been said before, I don't think that a less powerful and much less bulky version of Magnezone that can beat and extra couple of Pokemon with a Scarf is a niche deserving of anywhere in the B Ranks. If I had to pick a spot, I'd say C or C- would be best for it, although I personally wouldn't mind seeing it drop to D.

As much as I love Charizard X, I have to agree that it shouldn't rise to S Rank right now. While Scarf Landorus-T isn't as omnipresent as it once was, Hippowdon has gotten a lot more popular lately (just check out the SPL stats), and there's still a few other popular Pokemon like Azumarill, Mega Altaria, and Heatran to switch in pressure it. That said, I do think it's one of the most dangerous Pokemon in the A+ Rank right now, and I'm completely against the drop to A that was suggested a while back. It's still a fairly versatile threat that should be at the forefront of players' minds when teambuilding, whether its a Dragon Dance, Swords Dance, or bulky Will-O-Wisp variant. What's more is that each of these variants may be running any combination of Dragon Claw / Outrage, Flare Blitz, Earthquake, and Roost alongside their namesake move (and even Tailwind, with regards to the Swords Dance set), which gives Charizard X a lot of options depending on what your team needs. So yeah, I think Charizard X is still a great Mega and a very solid A+ contender, and while I don't think it's dominating enough to rise back into S Rank, I can't see it dropping from A+ any time soon.

 

[bludz]

I think the main reason people have said Gyarados is better is that because of intimidate and the dual typing it can set up a DD more easily against things and also acts as a better general check to threats.

To be honest I don't see the need to send a mon from unranked to A- immediately. Serperior went from unranked to B- and it's probably going to move up. I think Feraligatr should start in the same spot and there is always room to move it up if it proves how well it performs. If you really want to argue it should start in B rank I'm not going to give any resistance but A- or B+ right off the bat isn't necessary as these ranks evolve over time anyway.

 

[RichieTheGarchomp]

I was absent for a long time because of a few issues, but after getting back and testing some stuff I would like to talk about this Pokemon:

Feraligatr to A-:
Its new ability made this starter from gen2 to one of the most threatening non-mega DragonDancers in this meta.
Sheer Force + LO allows him to deal massive damage against many common Pokemon in the tier. Water and Dark are a nearly perfect coverage which hits most threats at least neutral and the few who do resist them can be handled by teammates or a third coverage move.

This is all good and logical, but the big question is: Why using him instead of Crawdaunt, Gyarados or Mega-Gyarados?

The difference between Feraligatr and Crawdaunt was already explained, so I keep it short here:
Crawdaunt is more of a wallbreaker with a great STAB in Knock Off and Feraligator is a lategame-sweeper. Totally different roles.

Looking at Gyarados (especially Mega), they do nearly the same. Gyarados has Intimidate to make setting up easier, useful resistances in Mach Punch and acts as a check to Keldeo. Mega-Gyarados has STAB on Crunch, can stallbreak with Taunt-sets and looses its Fighting-resistence in exchange for a useful dark-resist (Sucker Punch).
Feraligatr has 3 main traits in which it actually outclasses those two! The first one is the raw power he posseses. 105 attack are looking bad in comparison to 155, right?
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 164-192 (43 - 50.3%) -- 1.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 141-166 (37 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

As you can see, Feraligatr does deal more damage than Mega-Gyarados WITHOUT a positive nature on attack. Not mentioning that most Gyarados run jolly now, the difference in damage is very noticeable. The only move that is stronger on Gyarados is Crunch thanks to its STAB. While Gyarados can set up easier thanks to Intimidate, Feraligatr is harder to wall after he gets the chance to boost, and it's not like he has to wait until lategame to do something because he can switch in and out more often thanks to its neutrality to Stealth Rock.

Gyarados takes 25% damage everytime he switches in. This can be bothersome especially if you are not mega-evolving because of an opposing Keldeo for example or too much offensive pressure. Feraligatr doesn't have to worry too much about that, which makes it a better check to HO than Gyarados. The third factor makes it even more difficult to deal with, even further increasing its match-up against offensive teams.

Feraligatr is very versatile. Waterfall and Crunch are standard and should always be used, but the other 2 moves are basically free to choose making him very unpredictable. DD is useful and probably its best trick, but an agility-set is a pain to face for fast offense because it outspeeds any scarfer after one boost and enough power to OHKO nearly every threat bar MegaMeta. A SD-set can be useful against stall, but this is usually done better by Crawdaunt.
Even the simple DD-set is not easy to stop without knowing the fourth move. Ice Punch lets it beat Altaria and Chesnaught, Aquajet lets you outspeed and kill Talonflame (after one dance) and can troll Bisharp or other priority-users, Substitute lets it set up on Scald- and other status-users (but Gyarados can do that too) and Superpower kills Mega-Gyarados and deals good damage against Keldeo. Azumarill can only be beaten by the niche move Iron Tail, but that is usually not worth it and having a check to the little bunny is better.

Feraligatr's sheer power, SR-neutrality and its small, but great movepool makes him a very legitimate choice over Gyarados and even over Mega-Gyarados. It has a better matchup against offense while Mega-Gyarados destroys stall easier, which is the main difference between these two very similar dragondancers. With so many common traits, even some in which Feraligatr outclasses Gyarados and no opportunity cost in using a mega I don't see any reasons he should be ranked lower than the regular Gyarados.

What?

A-? Seriously, people at Smogon love to overestimate things, but this is too much.

Seeing as the thing probably wont go higher than UU, I cant see how this guy is a threat.

A shit movepool which suffers a decent 4MSS clause and a good amount of checks (MVenu, Skarm (roar, Counter, etc.) Clefable, Quag, GK MMeta, Mew (if not running crunch) etc. he isnt that amazing. I understand he looks good on paper, but you think its like a god.

If it runs Crunch, then it cant take on Priority users and is weak to Azu, Keldeo,Bulky MZor With Superpower/Knock Off, MAlt, and Skarmory again.

If it runs Aqua Jet, its coverage is laughable and is checked/countered by basically every grass and water type and the pokemon listed above.

If it runs Ice Fang, read above except change Grass to Water types.

Besides, No recovery sucks.

It has a lot of competition against other DDers in the way of it. I'd rather use MDos/CharX/MAlt due to their bulk, coverage, and recovery options. If i wanted to put it somewhere, B seems good for it.

 

[BlueLobster]

Agreeing with a Pangoro rise, but not a Shuckle drop. Webs is an awful playstyle in the current meta, but it isn't as hard as people say to stop this. The most prominent threats to webs are:

Bisharp
M.Diancie
M.Sableye
Defoggers

Scarf Keldeo checks the first two, Bisharp checks defoggers (excluding Mandibuzz and WW Skarm, and then again teams with these rarely are affected by webs as they are stall teams), and MSab is rather uncommon. That, for me, is good enough for webs to be viable (as long as you can force MMeta out).

Pangoro is a beast and really needs to move up. Now it has drain punch and knock off, Choice Band and Bulky Pivot variants are extremely useful. IIRC, it's knock offs are as powerful as Bisharps. Parting Shot is really useful to make VolTurn cores and weaken offensive threats It has Gunk Shot to take out fairies now, has D-Punch healing, can beat Gliscor/Lando-I lacking focus blast with Ice Punch, and is all round better than others in it's rank. It should rise to C or C+ IMO.

Feraligatr should go B at most. It isn't as amazing as anyone saying higher than that say it is, it isn't particularly amazing, but good, at DD and Crawdaunt is stiff competition for SD. It should never go higher than B IMO, and I think Serp should be higher than it; hence why I am saying B, as I think Serp should be B+.

AM can you take Flygon off Conclusion Reached? It isn't ranked anymore, so shouldn't be there.

 

[p2]

Pangoro is pretty good, although it doesn't do much to Offensive teams, it just breaks down Stall teams with ease, a set of SD / Knock Off / Drain Punch / Gunk Shot handles nearly everything Stall regularly uses. If it can setup, it's definitely one of the scariest wallbreakers and on top of that it has the coverage to break right through pokemon that can wall the aforementioned set, if that's even possible.

The only thing that really gives it trouble is Quagsire, but it can be easily be beaten after some passive damage, but even then a set with Superpower over Drain Punch can be used which easily 2HKOs Quag. Pangoro definitely deserves a rise, I would even consider it as high as B- but because of its poor matchup against offensive teams, I think it should just go to C+

wall of calcs

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Pangoro Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 416-494 (136.8 - 162.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Pangoro Drain Punch vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 897-1055 (139.7 - 164.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Amoonguss: 446-526 (103.2 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 250-294 (74.8 - 88%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 232 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 364-429 (68.8 - 81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Pangoro Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Clefable: 317-374 (80.4 - 94.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Pangoro Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 276-328 (70 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Slowbro: 595-704 (151 - 178.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bronzong: 569-671 (168.3 - 198.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Jirachi: 868-1024 (214.8 - 253.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Pangoro Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 227-268 (62.3 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 281-331 (66.9 - 78.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Pangoro Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 455-538 (129.2 - 152.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Pangoro Drain Punch vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mandibuzz: 259-305 (61.2 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Gliscor: 313-370 (88.4 - 104.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 286-337 (70.7 - 83.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Quagsire: 175-208 (44.4 - 52.7%) -- 23.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Pangoro Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 218-259 (63.3 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock