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Most of the time a nom is made, only relevant calcs are provided, and x4 SE moves are almost always left out because they should obviously OHKO (unless its like a hidden power coverage move etc.). Speciallly-based Tauros only has a half chance of killing Ferrothorn with 110 base Fire blast, the Sheer force ability, a Life Orb, after it switches in to Stealth Rocks. lol, after all of that it still cant secure a clean OHKO. At least you didn't bother showing Heatran fares against EQ :). I like thinking how you were certainly thinking outside the box, but that Tauros set is way too gimmicky.
Other things I do agree on:
Mega Scizor up to A+
Garchomp up to A+
Mega Altaria stays in A+
Mega Charizard stays in A+
Mega Pigeot up to B-
The element of surprise should not be an argument for nominating something to D.... at all. Also I know we all love making nominations to cheese out 30+ likes but lets not state the obvious. We know what rough skin does lol that is a pretty obvious trait that isnt going to exactly tell us anything we aren't aware of. Granted we appreciate the nominations but let's ease up on the hype, bandwagon, and surprise factor. It's kind of a bit much at this point.
I made the post because I said I was going to like 2 weeks ago, and because Garchomp going back up to A+ is something that I fully support, not because I wanted a shiton of likes. The likes the post received just shows that many other people agree with my post.
I made a small paragraph about rough skin because rough skin is one of the defining factors of Garchomp's niche. It is comparable to the likes of Bisharp's defiant, or clefable's magic guard. Without it, Garchomp would not be nearly as good as it is right now, which is evident by the amount of usage it's bulky Rocky helmet set is seeing. I mean yeah, we all know what rough skin does, but what it does is a major factor in what makes Garchomp an excellent team choice. There's nothing wrong with emphasizing that you take off 30% + of an opponents HP just by switching it into a physical attack, especially when the damage adds up and Garchomp has the bulk to do this multiple times a match. Garchomp wouldn't be the mon it is if it didn't have rough skin; that was what I was trying to convey with that part of my post.
I made the post because I said I was going to like 2 weeks ago, and because Garchomp going back up to A+ is something that I fully support, not because I wanted a shiton of likes. The likes the post received just shows that many other people agree with my post.
I made a small paragraph about rough skin because rough skin is one of the defining factors of Garchomp's niche. It is comparable to the likes of Bisharp's defiant, or clefable's magic guard. Without it, Garchomp would not be nearly as good as it is right now, which is evident by the amount of usage it's bulky Rocky helmet set is seeing. I mean yeah, we all know what rough skin does, but what it does is a major factor in what makes Garchomp an excellent team choice. There's nothing wrong with emphasizing that you take off 30% + of an opponents HP just by switching it into a physical attack, especially when the damage adds up and Garchomp has the bulk to do this multiple times a match. Garchomp wouldn't be the mon it is if it didn't have rough skin; that was what I was trying to convey with that part of my post.
I made a small paragraph about rough skin because rough skin is one of the defining factors of Garchomp's niche. It is comparable to the likes of Bisharp's defiant, or clefable's magic guard. Without it, Garchomp would not be nearly as good as it is right now, which is evident by the amount of usage it's bulky Rocky helmet set is seeing. I mean yeah, we all know what rough skin does, but what it does is a major factor in what makes Garchomp an excellent team choice. There's nothing wrong with emphasizing that you take off 30% + of an opponents HP just by switching it into a physical attack, especially when the damage adds up and Garchomp has the bulk to do this multiple times a match. Garchomp wouldn't be the mon it is if it didn't have rough skin; that was what I was trying to convey with that part of my post.
I threw something together to test Rough Skin + Rocky Helmet Garchomp out on Balance with bulky SD Mega-Scizor; I think this battle shows it in action pretty honestly. It fits onto Balance teams amazingly well; both teams had offensive and defensive spins on a Starmie + Talonflame + Garchomp core, with my team also utilizing it as a Dark + Steel + Fairy core component with M-Scizor and Physically Defensive Unaware Clefable. If you don't want to watch 61 turns of hot balanced action, Garchomp took Talonflame down with it thanks to a combination of Rocky Helmet + Rough Skin + BB Recoil, and its presence made spinning with Starmie substantially more risky because if Starmie's below ~35%, it won't be able to spin.It also shows its pitfalls: It can't do too much (if anything) to Physically Defensive Clef, and it has a pretty hard time switching into Starmie for fear of Analytic Hydro Pumps (or scalds or Ice Beam)
I know I'm not contributing too much that hasn't been said, but I wanted to show that RH Garchomp's ability to pressure physical attackers is not theoretical.
I agree with Garchomp and Scizor rising. Chomp is a really cool Pokemon and not just for its Rocky Helmet set (although that set is probably its best at the moment). People forget how terrifying Sub SD sets can be, setting up on the ever common Rotom-W and and even stuff like Mega Sableye trying to status it. Sub Pokemon in general are tough for both offensive and defensive teams to face, making it a pretty decent pick to handle these archetypes, as well as lure in some balanced threats. The only issue I have with Garchomp is that its x4 weakness to Ice makes it difficult to pair it with some of the best Pokemon in the tier, namely Landorus(-T) and Gliscor. Gliscor and Lando-T may be falling out of favor slightly, but Landorus is still the best Pokemon in the tier right now, so doubling up on such a tough weakness to effectively cover is never good. But that's really Garchomp's only major flaw in my opinion. And it definitely deserves A+.
Mega Scizor is a great Pokemon right now. Bulky sets plough right through teams that aren't prepared for it, and teams that are prepared for that set might just get bopped by the offensive 3 attacks set. It check Mega Metagross, Mega Altaria, and Mega Diancie, three of the most threatening Pokemon in the tier, and holds its own against the rest. The only real downside is that it's a free switch in for the Zards, but the meta has shifted away from them (well, X at least), for the most part, despite the fact that they're still very very good Pokemon so that's not too much of a downside.
And speaking of Zard X, it's still an incredibly threatening Pokemon, and a lot of its checks can only switch into it once or get fucked over completely by Wisp sets so the thought of dropping it to A is laughable. Seriously, use this thing more, it's so fucking good.
Thundurus-T of C to B
I know, it's so, huh, strange, but you don't know what this moveset can do with much pokémon:
Thundurus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Ice
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
This moveset is just a killer. It can defeat Choice Band/Lefties Talonflame, and, Surprise one Specs Keldeo or just one Scarf Landorus-Therian. Timid Nature it's for Scarf-Landorus with Hidden Power Ice, Thundurus-T can go to the Speed Tie and Kill It. It have so much counters, like Mega Venu, Sylveon Specs, so, Volt Switch it's a classic Hit And Run. Focus Blast is for defeat a Weak ferrothorn or a Weak Heatran.
Uh no. I just can't see Thundy-T up alongside with mons such as Victini, Suicune and Scizor. Besides, I don't really think one set is enough to boost him all the way up to B, and that scarf set is just a very small niche. B is way too much, but I think C+ could be decent.
Thundurus-T of C to B
I know, it's so, huh, strange, but you don't know what this moveset can do with much pokémon:
Thundurus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Ice
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
This moveset is just a killer. It can defeat Choice Band/Lefties Talonflame, and, Surprise one Specs Keldeo or just one Scarf Landorus-Therian. Timid Nature it's for Scarf-Landorus with Hidden Power Ice, Thundurus-T can go to the Speed Tie and Kill It. It have so much counters, like Mega Venu, Sylveon Specs, so, Volt Switch it's a classic Hit And Run. Focus Blast is for defeat a Weak ferrothorn or a Weak Heatran.
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Thundurus-T: 316-373 (105.6 - 124.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I don't know if you're talking about checking tflame (which isn't impressive in the least) but if you're talking about this thing countering it, well as you can see it doesn't.
Mind providing some evidence as to why Tauros is so bad? I would hardly call posting a random ass Geomancy Smeargle set with some Keldeo calcs "evidence" let alone relevant. If you don't think Tauros should be ranked that's fine, just say WHY.
I said the sets are comparable as they are both plain unviable. Using a mon's S.Atk stat when it's as low as 40 is plain dumb. If you need Sheer Force, Life Orb 4X SE hit to have a chance to KO a mon wih a move more powerful than hidden power I think it shows on it's own how bad it is. Base 40 S.Atk... Use your common sense please.
The set was so bad I honestly thought you were trolling, and if you want a lure that does the same thing better give LO Mew a shot.
If you really want Tarous ranked, expand on this set more than I can be bothered:
Tauros @ Life Orb/Choice Band
252 Atk, 4 Def, 252 Spe
Ability: Sheer Force
Jolly Nature
- Rock Climb
- Zen Headbutt
- Earthquake
- Wild Charge
With Tauros hitting the important base 110 speed tier and having resectable 100 base attack and a cool ability in SF, it can be a decent cleaner. To increase it's mediocre damage output, a life orb or choice band is recommended. Rock Climb is good power, SF boosted STAB with few relevant resistances. Zen Headbutt allows Tauros to KO fighting types, who it is weak to, and hit Gengar, who is immune to it's STAB, SE. It is also sheer force boosted. Earthquake hits Heatran, who is a large obsticle to Tauros, while Wild Charge hits Skarmory an Aerodactyl, who resist other moves. A scarf can be used to beat pokemon like M.Lop and MMan, but being rather weak without an attack boostig item, it isn't reccomended.
Note I don't believe this set is D worthy either, due to it being rather priority weak, Ferro walled, not outstandingly fast and a rather low damage output, but it's Tauros' best set in this meta. It's basically outclassed in OU by faster, more powerful pokemon.
Can you also edit the definition of C Rank? It implies that Pokemon in C Rank are severely flawed, when C Rank is supposed to define (I am using Jukain's words because I think it is an accurate representation) Pokemon with a niche that have some merit. This is obviously less apparent as you go down lower into the C Ranks, but some of the higher C Ranked Pokemon, such as Cobalion, Tyrantrum, Heracross, and Wobbuffet are just more niche Pokemon that are good but have more specific, niche roles than higher ranked Pokemon. They are not necessarily bad, but more niche.
Can you also edit the definition of C Rank? It implies that Pokemon in C Rank are severely flawed, when C Rank is supposed to define (I am using Jukain's words because I think it is an accurate representation) Pokemon with a niche that have some merit. This is obviously less apparent as you go down lower into the C Ranks, but some of the higher C Ranked Pokemon, such as Cobalion, Tyrantrum, Heracross, and Wobbuffet are just more niche Pokemon that are good but have more specific, niche roles than higher ranked Pokemon. They are not necessarily bad, but more niche.
That just means that they need to move up, not that the rank definition needs to be drastically changed.
I mean cobalion is just a great filler if u want a mon to check fairies, counter bisharp, and set rocks. Specific but fantastic at what it does. move it to B- imo
Tyrantrum with CB is 2hko'ing if not OHKO'ing everything in the tier with one move bar defensive hippo. That's pretty B- worthy
And wobu and hera can stay in C
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Thundurus-T: 316-373 (105.6 - 124.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I don't know if you're talking about checking tflame (which isn't impressive in the least) but if you're talking about this thing countering it, well as you can see it doesn't.
Mind providing some evidence as to why Tauros is so bad? I would hardly call posting a random ass Geomancy Smeargle set with some Keldeo calcs "evidence" let alone relevant. If you don't think Tauros should be ranked that's fine, just say WHY.
e: Apparantley not many people know what a "lure" is so, and apaprantley not many people want to try out Pokemon for themselves to form an educated opinion so probably gonna stop posting about this. How does LO Mew lure Ferro, Skarm, Lando-t etc if standard Mew counters them? rofl the reason Tauros works is because it lures and kills things that counter standard Tauros, thats not what LO mew does at all. And for all the poeple bashing Tauros bc bandwagon XD and epic forum likes, try using it yourself lol... if you try it out and it does nothing for you, then thats fine, but dont dismiss something because you dont like it on paper.
I will just say, I did try out Tauros in XY. After a few battles I nicknamed it Taurass. It was crap. And that was using a more sensible Tauros set. I know this isn't XY, but I just wanted to put that out there.
We all know what a lure is - we can all actually play the game, funnily enough. What we don't get is what the hell this Tauros is supposed to bring to the OU meta or have a decent knowledge of how it actually functions. This is a thread by and large for newer players, and some obscure sets like special lure Tauros or Pachirisu are not going to be doing them any favours. If you want to get something like that ranked, imo for what it's worth, you might be best writing a full analysis first, so we have a decent idea of what we're supporting or debunking, and why your Tauros isn't completely outclassed by the myriad of lures in OU. The burden of proof is going to lie with you on this one(or anyone else who sees merit in it), it isn't up to us to disprove something that looks ridiculous.
That just means that they need to move up, not that the rank definition needs to be drastically changed.
I mean cobalion is just a great filler if u want a mon to check fairies, counter bisharp, and set rocks. Specific but fantastic at what it does. move it to B- imo
Tyrantrum with CB is 2hko'ing if not OHKO'ing everything in the tier with one move bar defensive hippo. That's pretty B- worthy
And wobu and hera can stay in C
THundy-t is scarfed. its not switcing in, but it can revenge kill it under most circumstances.
The rank definition is not necessarily being drastically changed. You say that Cobalion is specific but fantastic at what it does. I could argue that about Wobbuffet, too: Wobbuffet is really specific in trapping a number of offensive threats (along with one or two defensive threats) for a specific number of offensive teams, but it is really good at doing that job effectively. One thing you also forget about Cobalion is how there is a growing increase in bulky Ground-types like Hippowdon and bulky Garchomp that give Cobalion problems. It is a good check to Bisharp, but metagame trends really are not that favorable for Cobalion, and Cobalion, like Wobbuffet, is really specific towards the team playstyles it fits on in VoltTurn teams.
I don't see how the definition is such a factor to the extent that you can't differentiate an obvious move up or move down just by looking at the mons themselves and how they stack up against each other in terms of usefulness or a lack of, with emphasis on providing reasoning as to why something should move or up down which is obviously a big point of this thread. You have to realize that these definitions encompass the entirety of 3 sub-ranks with the exception of S and D. So yes the definition might be blurred but just by seeing their position at the higher part of the rank itself gives you an idea they're obviously more than just mediocre in comparison to a blanket definition that is there for transparency sake. For example I'm looking at B right now and I can sure as hell tell you that Mandibuzz is not "great" nor does it "exert an above average presence." So that's your cue or mine when I make it to provide some logic and get the ball rolling. Definitions no matter how fancy or obvious I make them won't change the end result that people will more or less ignore these definitions themselves and use comparisons with other mons to provide a ranking.
Nominating M-Venusaur to be promoted from A--> A+ rank
After gradually declining in usage from early XY, M-Venu has finally found its footing in ORAS as one of the premier fairy checks in the metagame. The ability to counter M-Diancie and M-Altaria for days on end is extremely valuable being that those two megas in particular are being grossly overused on teams as their fairy mon of choice atm. It's also a very solid answer to M-lopunny, Keldeo and Clefable just to name a few but its ability to wall M-Diancie and M-Altaria is the main reason why I believe he should be promoted. Just a very underrated mon in the current meta that is being slept on.
Nominating Amoonguss to be promoted from B --> A- rank
Similar vein to M-Venu where it's a reliable counter to M-Diancie and M-Altaria. I figured if I was to promote M-Venu a rank then an Amoonguss promotion should follow as the two mons serve the same role for the most part. The fact that it doesn't cost a mega-slot, is able to hold Black sludge to combat residual sand damage, and has an amazing ability in regenerator, prevents it from being a strictly inferior version of M-venu.
I don't really think Mega Venusaur should be promoted to A+. It's a great fairy check, but it doesn't appreciate the rise in usage of many Pokemon, such as Lando-I, Mega Metagross remaining OU, Zard Y and X, Mega Scizor, Torn-T, and Kyu-B. On stall and balanced teams, it faces tons of competition for the mega slot from Pokemon such as Mega Sableye, Mega Slowbro, and Mega Scizor. Mega Diancie also runs Psyshock on CM sets, and Mega Altaria is commonly paired with sand offense which MVenu dislikes.
MVenu is still a great answer to mons like Keldeo, Mlop, Mega Diancie, and Mega Altaria, but it really dislikes the rise in usage of many Pokemon, namely Lando-I, Megagross, both Zards, MScizor, Torn-T, and cube, so I think A is a solid placement for right now.
Similar to Mega Venu, I also don't think Amoonguss should rise. Mega Altaria commonly runs Fire Blast on mixed and purely special sets, while CM Mega Diancie sometimes runs Psyshock. Amoonguss really dislikes the rise in usage of many mons that I listed above, and tbh, if anything, it should probably drop.
Depending on what filler move you run (leech seed, earthquake, HP fire) Scizor is not necessarily a wall, it's fun to hp fire ferro and scizor. I think A rank is perfect for it. Venusaur is great to check lots of the aforementioned threats, but it's also a mon that loses to many common pokemon. Like the ORAS metagame, there will be matchupa where Venusaur is amazing and matchupa where it is complete shit.
I don't think Amoonguss should rise. I don't have the most experience with it, but I can say that with my few times using it that it is extremely passive. Pretty much every single time, Amoonguss comes in, Spores something, gets back out. If anything, I think it should go down.
Depending on what filler move you run (leech seed, earthquake, HP fire) Scizor is not necessarily a wall, it's fun to hp fire ferro and scizor. I think A rank is perfect for it. Venusaur is great to check lots of the aforementioned threats, but it's also a mon that loses to many common pokemon. Like the ORAS metagame, there will be matchupa where Venusaur is amazing and matchupa where it is complete shit.
Uh how does Leech Seed make Mega Scizor not a wall. Earthquake also does like nothing. Mega Scizor basically uses any non HP fire Mega Venu as set up fodder; being immune to 1 STAB and 4x resisting the other, while also having reliable recovery in the form of roost.
I was listing possible filler moves Venu runs, obviously HP Fire is what is used to beat Scizor. To add on to this discussion a little more, you can either be dumb and sac your Scizor or switch out to scout. Early ORAS I used Mega Venu and people seemed to forget that Venu could run HP Fire. I guess Sleep Powder is another option on Venu
Pretty big update that got bigger with some insight from you guys so we'd like to thank you all for shedding light on certain rankings. Anyways here's the changes and as always they've already been implemented into the OP.
Azelf: B- to B
Diggersby: A- to B+
Heracross (Mega): A- to B+
Dragalge: B- to B
Serperior: B- to B
Thundurus-T: C to C+
Emboar: D to C-
Amoonguss: B+ to B
Jirachi: Stays in A-
Volcarona: B+ to A-
Feraligatr: Unranked to B-
Shuckle: Stays in C
Torn-T: A- to A
Kyurem-B: B+ to A-
Scizor (Mega): A to A+
Altaria (Mega): A+ to S
Garchomp: Stays in A
Slowbro (Mega): A+ to A
Char-X: Stays in A+
Azumarill: Stays in A+
M-Gallade: A to A-
Thundurus-I: Stays in A+
Zapdos: Stays in B-
Houndoom (Mega): B to B-
Other stuff discussed between ranking team that has now changed:
Gyarados (Mega): A+ to A
Pinsir (Mega): A to A-
Beedrill (Mega): B+ to B
Hawlucha: B+ to B
Klefki: B+ to A-
Sceptile (Mega): B+ to B
Suicune: B to B+
Togekiss: B to B+
I said I would put a rule for D rank but I haven't come up with one nor will I bother unless it requires actual moderator action. Granted it might be mind numbing to read some of them for you guys but do realize we spend time reading those and everything else that goes along with it. Also the fact I don't want to ignore legitimate D rank proposals cause we've gotten some in the past that turned out better than what people thought, see Reuniclus and Heracross.
Anyways the discussion is going to be focused on the B ranks. Ranking team and some others have noticed it's sort of a mess with stuff that should be lower or higher than they should be, this includes stuff that could be in that rank as well such as a C+ ranked Pokemon. You're free to bring up whatever else but for the most part we'll be focusing on this aspect. Stuff like the Excadrill nomination is still being discussed with ranking team so if something big wasn't shown on this update chances are that would be the reason why. Anyways keep it coming guys.
Edit:
Alakazam (Mega): B+ to A-
Aerodactyl (Mega): Stays in A-
Yeah, and thundy-t doesn't have the raw power to do either beat offense or beat stall with the respective boost under its belt; that's the point i'm trying to make here lol. At +2, sdef hippo stands out as an extremely prominent answer to it, and after rocks, sand, and Lo damage it loses to rock slide. mega Altaria is also a great answer, taking non LO hp ices and killing back with return or hyper voice. To be honest, those barely live, but the big momma herself chansey can easily tank anything double dance has to deal out
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus-T Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 211-250 (32.8 - 38.9%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO
"nothing can really take a hit from it."
Of course, if you wanted to go full wallbreaker, you are pretty much correct, but it just does its job so much worse than it other stuff can. between, rocks and life orb recoil, it kills itself way too fast, and pokemon like lando-i don't suffer life orb recoil and are neutral to rocks :I
As i was afraid, you still didn't really understand basic shit, but i'll try to explain.
mmeta+keld is a gud core because yes, mmeta switches into lati, but its more because its also switching into grasses that pressure it and luring the waters that wall it. If all I cared about was getting rid of lati, then ttar does that fine, but that can't switch into grasses or beat waters as well as mmeta does.
Besides, even if mmeta is beating lati 1v1, IS LATI STAYING IN? No, unless a pokemon dies either way, then no, a lati is not fucking staying in on mmeta. The offense/balance team will then sacrifice a pokemon, threaten you out, and continue to limit your switch-ins.
DID YOU ACCOMPLISH YOUR JOB OF "REMOVING LATI"?
NO
LATI SWITCHED OUT AND ITS FUCKING FINE.
see what i mean?
yes, you can come in again when lati does, but the team should have SOME kind of response to mmeta (AV slowking, cores like ferro+lando-t, ferro+slowbro, etc), or atleast be able to prevent safe switch-ins if its offense (use hpfire/eq frequently on latios).
...
"secondary special wallbreaker" lol how many slots do you think a team has. teams don' got room for some mon that doesn't pull its weight vs offense, balance, or stall as well as its better counterpart(s) do(es). We rank pokemon because they have a valuable NICHE, because they DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT, not because they're a nice secondary choice. Still just grasping for straws lol.
Both only need one, so that's irrelevant
earth power factoring in sheer force is 117 base power lol.
Base power of your moves is a real problem, its the reason why keldeo's scalds are ridiculously weak without specs, despite having a solid 129 base special attack.
It's also pretty hard to kill anything with just an agility up on thundy-t, so being resistant to priority is pretty pointless. and you're not getting two free turns vs offense from any competent player.
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus-T Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 172-203 (57.5 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus-T Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Manectric: 139-165 (49.4 - 58.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus-T Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 191-226 (63.4 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus-T Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 138-164 (40.4 - 48%) -- 56.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (big one, big big big one)
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus-T Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Terrakion: 226-266 (69.9 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
When did i say they did lol. and fyi neither is thundy-t lmao
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus-T Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 36 SpD Sylveon: 161-191 (40.8 - 48.4%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus-T: 166-196 (55.5 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus-T: 339-399 (113.3 - 133.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I'd like to put in my two cents: Landorus and Thundurus-T function differently because Thundurus lacks the coverage that function better than Landorous, it's just not that good in the metagame. Landorus threatens ever place style and with the propriate set can beat almost ever playstyle on its own. Thundurus does not.
Agree with most of the changes in this update (Pinsir has been so much less effective in the meta makes sense.)
Just saying, but I was the one nommed Exca for A+ earlier :x.
Edit: never mind I saw flamer's post on saturday about exca
Only to make this post serve some actual use I'll throw about some of my thoughts on the B and B- ranks.
--> C/C-
I feel like at this point you are shooting yourself in the foot if you are using this over zone and its speed tier is honestly not that relevant anymore due to ninja being gone. Sure outspeeding Starmie and Torn-T is nice, but its power is so lacking that it's just not worth the trouble of using it.
--> B-/C+
Quagsires niche is still relevant, but as wall it just seems so underwhelming when you already have things like hippo in the tier.Clefable while it does wall different targets is much better user of unaware since it covers a wider range of threats. Needs to drop.
--> C+
Lucario already had bad 4mss syndrome as it is, but in this meta it just keeps getting worse and worse. With more of faster threats that resist espeed like megagross and diancie (tho it can be handled by bp, but then that leaves it walled by a number of relevant mons) being introduced his cleaning job has become a lot worse right now it doesn't fit on the level of things like mega doom or mega tar.
