External device used. Therefore not legit.
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¿Cloning is hacking?
- Thread starter sniDer
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External device used. Therefore not legit.
Hmm, perhaps one day I could make a video showing off my future max. IV/EV-trained Pokes on PBR; maybe that would add credibility to the trades that I would offer.
Just a thought.
(Besides, my Diamond file is still in Veilstone City; it'd take me MONTHS with my school schedule to get anywhere near the point at which I'd best be able to strive for ANY of this.)
Just a thought.
(Besides, my Diamond file is still in Veilstone City; it'd take me MONTHS with my school schedule to get anywhere near the point at which I'd best be able to strive for ANY of this.)
Just because you can do it without a device doesn't make it "legit". It's very clearly cheating within the confines of playing the Pokemon game (not metagame). Turning off the power during an in-game operation to make the game glitch a duplicate of what is clearly intended to be a unique thing -- that's cheating. It does not create unfairly competitive pokemon, however.
As for all the so-called "hard work" on all these wi-fi trade pokes -- I have to call bullshit on that. How many level 100 pokes for trade were actually RAISED by their owners? Very few. I bet most of them had 95 rare candies shoved down their throats. And since cloning rare candies is a lot harder in DP than Emerald, I bet most of those RC's were hacked. That's just speculation on my part, but I seriously question how many people are truly putting in ALL the hard work on their pokes (not just breeding).
Once again, it really doesn't affect the competiveness of the pokemon. But, I agree with the OP -- a lot of people need to get off their high-horse about distiguishing between "cheating" and "legit".
As for all the so-called "hard work" on all these wi-fi trade pokes -- I have to call bullshit on that. How many level 100 pokes for trade were actually RAISED by their owners? Very few. I bet most of them had 95 rare candies shoved down their throats. And since cloning rare candies is a lot harder in DP than Emerald, I bet most of those RC's were hacked. That's just speculation on my part, but I seriously question how many people are truly putting in ALL the hard work on their pokes (not just breeding).
Once again, it really doesn't affect the competiveness of the pokemon. But, I agree with the OP -- a lot of people need to get off their high-horse about distiguishing between "cheating" and "legit".
But there's not much of a need to level up to level 100 anymore anyway, thanks to wi-fi battles automatically setting the level to 100. Most people just EV and level up their pokemon to the level that's needed anyway. Most rare candies are just used for checking IVs.
I don't see how using the cloning thing in the game is so bad though. I will admit, I don't like the fact that it takes down the uniqueness of each pokemon, but it's a glitch in the game, and keep in mind that there's been a way to clone a pokemon in EVERY pokemon game, so for all we know gamefreak could be putting it there on purpose, you never know. As long as there wasn't some AR code used to completely hack a pokemon, then I'm fine with it.
I don't think it's "bad" either. From a competitive battling standpoint, it's irrelevant IMO. In metagame battles, it's about the player, not the pokes.
But, I think the rampant cloning and cheating has really diminished the value of hard work in creating a unique "digital pet" that has value because of all the hard work put into it. In older Pokemon games, a level 100 poke (any breed) was great, just because it was so high-level. If it was bred well and EV trained, it was fucking awesome! Now it's dime-a-dozen on GTS.
This has no real impact on the competitive metagame, but a damn shame for the game itself. I like working hard on my pokemon and take pride in it. Not because it's rocket science or scaling Mt. Everest, but many people don't have the patience to do it.
I'm fine with others that don't want to deal with all that boring, time-consuming, in-game bullshit and get straight to earning stripes as a competitive battler. But, when those same people start preaching about "legit" and "cheating" -- I really think they should ditch the better-than-thou attitude.
Different people have different ideas of what cheating is. I personally don't find it cheating if you can do it in game without any external aid. That's just a rule of thumb I use for most games (not just Pokemon)
I don't see why someone would feed a Pokemon rare candies until they're LV100? All that does is diminish their value...
I was exaggerating. I'm talking about using hacked or cloned RC's to get additional levels (typically for level-up moves) after basic EV training, which normally doesn't level-up your pokemon as high as you want them -- even for wi-fi.
There are lots of people on this board who have said, "I own an AR, but I don't cheat. I only use the AR for TM's and Rare Candies". A contradiction, if I've ever heard one....
All of this is really a matter of personal preference, and I'm quite sure everyone's already made up their own minds on whether they consider cloning legitimate or illegitimate. I'm going to take a stab in the dark here and guess that these opinions aren't going to change no matter how many times we go over this issue.
Furthermore, Obi makes a lot of sense when he essentially says that if you don't want to deal with people who clone or hack then it's best to merely say so and people should have the decency to disclose whether they do so or not.
As for my personal perspective, one of the main points I've seen made here is that Pokemon should be unique, and that TMs should only be allowed to be used once. Personally I've always found the one-use-only facet of TMs to be one of the more frustrating things about the game.
I probably wouldn't have played Diamond as long as I have if it weren't for the fact I can continue to breed and train new pokemon and be sure that they'll be able to have the moves I want them to have.
Anyway, what I see this whole thing coming down to is the old adage 'each to their own'.
Furthermore, Obi makes a lot of sense when he essentially says that if you don't want to deal with people who clone or hack then it's best to merely say so and people should have the decency to disclose whether they do so or not.
As for my personal perspective, one of the main points I've seen made here is that Pokemon should be unique, and that TMs should only be allowed to be used once. Personally I've always found the one-use-only facet of TMs to be one of the more frustrating things about the game.
I probably wouldn't have played Diamond as long as I have if it weren't for the fact I can continue to breed and train new pokemon and be sure that they'll be able to have the moves I want them to have.
Anyway, what I see this whole thing coming down to is the old adage 'each to their own'.
I agree that it's not legit to use hacked RCs and TMs. Either clone 'em or get them from someone else
I like how the justification that cloning without an Action Replay is considered "legit" because you're using an exploit, which is the exact same thing an Action Replay does to the code of the game. They work in different ways (one glitches game code from without, one uses a data-transfer timing glitch), but both are utilizing the game code to do something you are "not supposed to be doing."
I know being self righteous while playing a video game makes you a hero or something, but to people who try to justify exploiting the game just because they didn't shell out an additional $20-25 to do so should get over themselves. We're all cheating. Why are we judging one another?
If you don't want clones, don't trade for clones. Spend a week trying to hatch 4 relatively similar copies of the same pokemon and put fancy nicknames of each, screencap the date/time of birth, and throw yourself a party for showing people exploiting the game what a real pokemon master looks like. If you want to clone, clone your stuff, but don't berate someone else because they're taking a different path to the same end result.
Is there seriously a need for people to look down on one another because they decide to cheat for the same end result in different ways? Are the means really so damningly different that they cannot justify the same ends? That just seems pointless.
I know being self righteous while playing a video game makes you a hero or something, but to people who try to justify exploiting the game just because they didn't shell out an additional $20-25 to do so should get over themselves. We're all cheating. Why are we judging one another?
If you don't want clones, don't trade for clones. Spend a week trying to hatch 4 relatively similar copies of the same pokemon and put fancy nicknames of each, screencap the date/time of birth, and throw yourself a party for showing people exploiting the game what a real pokemon master looks like. If you want to clone, clone your stuff, but don't berate someone else because they're taking a different path to the same end result.
Is there seriously a need for people to look down on one another because they decide to cheat for the same end result in different ways? Are the means really so damningly different that they cannot justify the same ends? That just seems pointless.
I didn't go the the JAA tournaments they held a while back, but I heard they checked everyone's game carts for "hacked" pokemon. Here's my question:
How many of the supposed "fair cloners" out there would show up with multiple exact copies of the same pokemon? What do you think Nintendo would do when they saw that?
They'd kick your ass out of the tournament, that's what they'd do. That is, if you were dumb enough to think your "cloning is fair" story would play at all with the makers of the game. I can just see you trying to explain that you exploited a glitch, not hacking.
No, I think every intelligent player would discreetly remove all the cloned dupes from their cart before they showed up at the tournament.
If you would do that, you are admitting that cloning is cheating. I'll reiterate that it doesn't affect the competitiveness of your pokemon. But, you're lying if you think you'd openly and proudly display multiple clones at an official Nintendo tournament where they are checking for hacks. You'd hide it because you know they would say it is wrong.
How many of the supposed "fair cloners" out there would show up with multiple exact copies of the same pokemon? What do you think Nintendo would do when they saw that?
They'd kick your ass out of the tournament, that's what they'd do. That is, if you were dumb enough to think your "cloning is fair" story would play at all with the makers of the game. I can just see you trying to explain that you exploited a glitch, not hacking.
No, I think every intelligent player would discreetly remove all the cloned dupes from their cart before they showed up at the tournament.
If you would do that, you are admitting that cloning is cheating. I'll reiterate that it doesn't affect the competitiveness of your pokemon. But, you're lying if you think you'd openly and proudly display multiple clones at an official Nintendo tournament where they are checking for hacks. You'd hide it because you know they would say it is wrong.
I assume a lot of those justifications come simply because people know that the majority of the stuff out for trade is cloned, and if cloning is equivalent to hacking, then why are they spending all their time cloning and trading instead of borrowing their friend's AR?
Of course, it 'feels' a whole lot better to go through with cloning something you've made and trading it for other things other people have made than it does to actually set everything how you want it by hacking. It's a conscience issue - feeling like you're working for something matters a lot in the end, even if it's not as extreme as comparing this with someone who takes pride in breeding entire competitive pokemon teams themselves.
Of course, it 'feels' a whole lot better to go through with cloning something you've made and trading it for other things other people have made than it does to actually set everything how you want it by hacking. It's a conscience issue - feeling like you're working for something matters a lot in the end, even if it's not as extreme as comparing this with someone who takes pride in breeding entire competitive pokemon teams themselves.
Agreed. Besides, there's something out there called-- "life." I really can't understand what's to be proud of in spending hundreds of hours (of truly brainless activity) just to get the right poke.
On the other hand though, pokemon is a strategy game. It should be about smarts, skill, and game. Not about who has the most tolerance for spending hours of their lives pushing the "up" and "down" waiting for the next egg to hatch.
Let's face it, there are folks with lots of smarts, who could have a lot of talent for the battle-- but let's face it, they have absolutely no time or attention for breeding. That's because it's boring . . . if they wanted something boring and tedious, they could be doing their math homework instead. lol
So what I guess what I'm saying is hacking, glitching whatever floats your boat . . . I totally sympathize with not wanting to spend hours on meaningless merda.
However, I have to laugh at the high and righteous jerks saying, "I worked hard for this *glitched* pokemon, so therefore I deserve to trade for everyone else's! And damn those bastard AR users! Jerks!"
I also have to laugh at the people who talk about the AR costing money. Ever heard of "Opportunity Cost?" If not, pick up some basic economics. 50 hours of time I spend breeding a poke with all 25+ IVs, could have been spent making hundreds of dollars (even a college brat like me would have made over $500 bucks in that time).
Hey, some of those AR users might be working hard on their math homework instead . . . lol
I have to say this is pretty funny too though. Levelling up a pokemon is hard work . . . lol The amount of effort put into that is NOTHING compared to those who actually do the breeding work too. Afterall, there really ARE players who do it all legittly-- though I think if I were to count myselves among them, my parents would kick me out on my ass and stop spending the 40k a year on my college tuition.
In any case as I said-- pokemon is a strategy game. Of course people are going to seek the very highest level. LOL at valuing the "uniqueness" of the pokes. This ain't sports or anything with an unlimited number of unviewable variables. It's just a video game with mechanics that are pretty easily understood-- if that weren't the case, we wouldn't even be areguing about this.
The fact is, that all those pokes only have a potential 31 different numbers for each of those stats, and the higher is always the better-- meaning that unlike an endless road like a real sport or art, breeding weaviles comes to an end-- when you get a 31 perfect jolly one with the moves you want. Nowhere to go after that.
The fact that people can see the end of the road-- the fact that "perfection" exists-- means that they are definitely not going to accept anything less (or at least damn close), so one way or another people WILL get there. What really matters is how many (intelligent ones) get there through all the (annoyance) breeding. In other words, one way or another, all the pokes WILL start looking the same anyway-- because it's a game of strategy.
In other words, perfect (or near perfect) pokes are the MEANS, not the END. The game only really starts there.
Well, honestly the people there arent the makers of the game, theyre security guards, and just because you remove cloned pokemon before you go to the tournament doesnt mean youre admitting that its hacking, it just means that youre dealing with it. For example.
Some kid paints graffiti on his schools wall.
The teacher makes him clean it up and gives him detention.
The kid isnt thinking "oh man, Ill never spray paint walls again, its bad", hes just thinking "Ill do it again when he isnt looking".
Cloning = cheating, not hacking
Okay lemme clear this up:
You breed for 20+ hours to get a very good Gible. When you get a 31/31/27/31/29/31 Jolly Gible, your work is complete. However, you want to assist other people in their teams by selling your Gible. Now let me ask you this?
If you hack, where's your work?
If you breed endlessly, where's the fun in the game?
Cloning stabilizes the balance between breeding and hacking, putting the game at the utmost fun level when trading. "Anti-cloners" are people who want to ruin the fun in the game.
You breed for 20+ hours to get a very good Gible. When you get a 31/31/27/31/29/31 Jolly Gible, your work is complete. However, you want to assist other people in their teams by selling your Gible. Now let me ask you this?
If you hack, where's your work?
If you breed endlessly, where's the fun in the game?
Cloning stabilizes the balance between breeding and hacking, putting the game at the utmost fun level when trading. "Anti-cloners" are people who want to ruin the fun in the game.
No, youre wrong. You worked hard for ONE pokemon. Not the 100+ that you will clone.
Kijin makes a very strong point. Cloning via GTS glitch and cloning via AR are both illegitimate ways of obtaining pokemon. Be honest, can you honestly say that using the GTS glitch to clone pokemon was purposely implemented?
Yes, but this is Smogon, where competitive battling is the first priority.
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