I'm not a huge fan of ScarfDrill, but it also provides Steel typing which gives it more opportunities to switch in, including on targets such as Mega Zam and Torn-T. Resists to forms of priority such as Mega Pinsir's Quick Attack, Medicham's dual priority set, and Lopunny's Fake Out can also be huge. Lack of a weakness to Ice Shard is also helpful to teams that already carry Ice weak mons and don't want to stack weaknesses further. So yeah, reasons to use ScarfDrill do extend beyond just Spinning and Mold Breaker. In terms of Steel type Scarfers, which is where I assume this is going next, Exca compresses spinning and provides more of an offensive punch than Jirachi and hitting different targets such as Tran more effectively. Although it is more team specific than Scarf Rachi.
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Resource ORAS OU Metagame Discussion
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I honestly can't stand scarfed Jirachi. I've used it and found it to be trash. I've had it used against me and found it to be trash. Okay, "trash" is a little too far, but still, I haven't seen it do anything notable outside of flinching everything in sight. Yeah, I know it's a nice momentum grabber and whatnot, but I still think people are using it just to flinch people to death and then saying "Hey, it grabs momentum, too" My main beef for disliking scarfed rachi is the fact that it is so ridiculously weak, not even guaranteeing an OHKO on Mega lopunny after rocks with zen headbutt (which isn't even standard) The main reason I'd use it is for a fast healing wish, but Mega Lopunny and Latias are capable of that too. Tricking walls is nice, I suppose. I'm not saying that it's all-around awful, but I'd much rather use numerous other pokemon than Scarfrachi. I'm just upset because people adore it so much, yet it's probably the weakest offensive pokemon in OU. Finally, Other jirachi sets are much more fun to use, less reliant on luck, and, in my opinion, better. I really like the specially defensive variant for being one of the best mega gardevoir counters in the game. The mixed lure isn't too shabby either. But the scarfed set kinda loses its luster compared to the numerous other options available.
That's why you use Heart Stamp bro :P
From what I believe how ScarfRachi works: in a similiar fashion to how Togekiss terrorizes slower, bulky teams, Jirachi is able to harass and put pressure on offensive teams. What ScarfRachi lacks in power, it makes up for in its good typing and utility (+ more utility if you would consider flinching as utility). It can feasibly check things like (Mega) Alakazam, Mega Altaria, Mega Diancie, Mega Gardevoir, Serperior, Latios, Kyurem-B, etc. that offensive teams can have issues switching into, and thanks to moves such as U-turn and Healing Wish, ScarfRachi does not usually lose momentum. You argue that Mega Lopunny and Latias can also pull off the fast Healing Wish, but there is an inherent cost in sacrificing your Mega to revitalize a teammate instead of the other way around. Latias, on the other hand, may / does not put enough consistent pressure on the opponent to keep the foe guessing on when the Healing Wish is coming; it can become fairly obvious when Latias has outlived its usefulness, but a 20% Jirachi can still pose an offensive threat to keep the opponent on their toes; 60% flinch is high enough for the opponent to not dismiss, kind of like how opponents can't just bank on Tornadus-T's Hurricane to miss them. The opponent may not even suspect that Jirachi even has Healing Wish since they have to consider Jirachi's other possible options (notably Trick) plus it's not immediately telegraphed like Latias's (why else would one use this over Latios?), so they may end up not playing around it.
The thing I like about scarfrachi is that it is able to patch up a large number of weaknesses that offense commonly faces while being capable of providing really cool support in the process. The key thing Rachi has going for it over Latias, Mega Lopunny and scarf Celebi is its typing, which means that it is the only one capable of sponging a Draco or a Pixilate Hyper Voice or a psychic or something as it comes in and proceed to either force them out in the case of fairies/frail psychics and grab momentum with either U-turn or HW. Also, while its immediate power is kinda pathetic, it does have a surprisingly high net damage output courtesy of Serene Grace. While having to flinch everything to death is somewhat luck reliant, I think that its capacity to do so is where a lot of its strength comes from, and its ability to circumvent its low stats with a Choice Scarf is part of what really sets it apart from other scarfers imo. Also if u wanna beat lop just use Heart Stamp, which has a higher chance of flinching twice than Zen does of flinching once while having a higher damage output over two turns than Zen has over one.
One thing that scarfrachi does that I really like is check weavile, which usually checks rachi lol, and it can check hoopa-u with iron head/u-turn, so it can be a makeshift dark check so that you can add a psychic type to your team that isnt necessarily a liability vs darks like lati twins or smthn.
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Yeah, I see your points. I was just kinda miffed because people kept trying to flinch me out with it to win the game (it didn't work) They had to flinch me like 8 times, due to me having Mgyara out. They didn't even get two. I was kind of trying to change there, admittedly. What do you guys think of Mgyara? It's certainly not quite as good of a dancer as Mzard X, but it can still work. I've been running DD/Sub/Crunch/Waterfall, which isn't exactly the epitome of neutral coverage, but it's still pretty solid and can set up subs on Slowbro, Mega Sableye, and non-power whip ferrothorn. Something pretty hysterical is getting to +1 and setting up a sub on Rotom-W, forcing it to switch out to break the sub with volt switch and whatever comes in is gonna have to take punishment from Mgyara. And, if all else fails, it's a pretty good abuser of healing wish. Most teams don't appreciate going two rounds with mega Gyarados. My biggest issue with it is a relative lack of power- Although it can run adamant, 80 power STABs sometimes just don't cut it. Overall, I wouldn't say Mgyara is overrated or underrated but rather just... Dismissed. People just use base Gyara or some other DD. But I didn't have a mega yet on my team, and it turned out to be a pretty fun mon to use.
I don't wanna nitpick, but assuming we're comparing DD + 3 attacks for both, Mega Gyarados can do most of what you said with Ice Fang can't it? It's sorta hard to buy that Feraligatr is better when the only advantage seems to be Superpower. Unless it hits harder or something.
I quite honestly like Gyara/Mgyara for vastly superior bulk as well as being able to toggle its defensive typing. But I realize that I should probably try out Gatr in the slot my Gyara is in before saying anything else.
While I get what you are saying, I disagree. I feel like some more uncommon mons such as jellicent and cofagrigus can work here. These pokemon are viable in the tier, as well as good spin blockers as well. Even though these mons can get 2 hit koed by say a driller's eq. Its like you said, they are pretty much ready to be sacked to keep hazards up if its that important.
It seems people are overlooking the defensive variant of mega gyrarados. With a resttalk + waterfall + dragon tail/DD , 252hp, 252 defense set (taking def for speed to creep a few stuff after DD), combined with intimidate from its base form, this thing is a serious wall. It can switch in on charX without outrage. It Isn't plagued by willo or twave, and once water resists are out of the way you can sweep after 2 DDs. Its certainly not a premier click DD 2win monster like zard, but both its base and mega forms have aerious bulk and get plenty of chances to set up. Cant expand on this too much now, as I'm on mobile.
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I have loved using RestTalk+DD Mega Gyarados for a long time. It is an absolute monster if you kind of pave the way a bit for it, and Mold Breaker helps with the Unaware and (now-rare) Water Absorbers in OU. However, I haven't used it recently at all. Last I used it was when Lando-I was still around, since that what my current EV spread for the thing was designed to take hits from. I'd probably retinker it to be able to survive better against Tornadus-T, since base form can switch into that pretty easily and use it as setup, as well as the wildly popular Weavile when Mega, but I'm just rambling and theorizing. I'll totally agree that Rest Talk Mega Gyara has huge potential, but the problem still stands that current metagame trends like Charizard-X, Keldeo, Lopunny, bulky SD Mega Scizor, and generally the slight tilt towards offense are not kind to it, and when mega evolved, those Fighting- and Bug-type weaknesses are absolutely killer. I'd have to really work on it again to get a good RestTalkDD Gyara going again. Not saying it couldn't happen, but it would take work. And getting over my current Sceptile obsession.
Rotom-Heat is easily the most underrated pokemon of all time.
This thing is a beast, its almost untouchable. Eats up will-o and Thunder waves n shit like that. With decent hazard control i think this mon shrekts shit daily.
I mean, my man, look at those resistances, HOLY fuck. Thats impressive.
For the people talking about mega gary-does, its alright. but i cannot recommend it on a team that isnt memeing.
This thing is a beast, its almost untouchable. Eats up will-o and Thunder waves n shit like that. With decent hazard control i think this mon shrekts shit daily.
I mean, my man, look at those resistances, HOLY fuck. Thats impressive.
For the people talking about mega gary-does, its alright. but i cannot recommend it on a team that isnt memeing.
You're the guy who was talking a bunch of crap at the start of the viability rankings. Yeah, rotom-H is pretty cool, but it still is mostly niche in the fact that you have mostly better options like heatran and rotom-w around. Rotom kinda suffers from this too, but rotom-H is pretty easy to whittle down and dislikes getting smacked by powerful neutral hits like gengar's sludge wave and bisharp's knock off. Most variants of rotom-H can't even take on specially defensive Talonflame, due to the fact that it has to switch with volt switch, and even then it might only catch it on a roost. The two biggest problems with it imo is a water weakness and an SR weakness. This is escpecially crucial since rotom-h is supposed to pivot around with volt switch. I'm not trying to diss rotom-h as its good in quite a few situations and it is somewhat underrated, but I kind of lost a lot of respect for you when I saw what you were saying on the viability thread. I'm not trying to be overly attacking, but I'm still kinda miffed.
Understood. I wasn't really trying to diss it, as I stated in the post. Just trying to give reasons why people might not use it quite as much as certain other Pokemon :)
I really like this stall core now, its pretty nice really:
So Venusuar just is so annoying to a lot of the meta, Quagsire walls a lot of set up sweepers and is covered by Mandibuzz and Venusuar as grass resists, and Mandibuzz is immune to Psychic and Ground types and is the best Hoopa-U check available. In other news, has anyone found a different Mandibuzz spread not EV'd for Landorus-I?
So Venusuar just is so annoying to a lot of the meta, Quagsire walls a lot of set up sweepers and is covered by Mandibuzz and Venusuar as grass resists, and Mandibuzz is immune to Psychic and Ground types and is the best Hoopa-U check available. In other news, has anyone found a different Mandibuzz spread not EV'd for Landorus-I?
Venusaur (M) @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 248 HP / 96 Def / 144 SpD / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off
- Synthesis
Quagsire (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Earthquake
- Scald
- Recover
- Toxic
Mandibuzz @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 136 Def / 108 SpD / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Defog
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 248 HP / 96 Def / 144 SpD / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off
- Synthesis
Quagsire (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Earthquake
- Scald
- Recover
- Toxic
Mandibuzz @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 136 Def / 108 SpD / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Defog
I really like this stall core now, its pretty nice really:
So Venusuar just is so annoying to a lot of the meta, Quagsire walls a lot of set up sweepers and is covered by Mandibuzz and Venusuar as grass resists, and Mandibuzz is immune to Psychic and Ground types and is the best Hoopa-U check available. In other news, has anyone found a different Mandibuzz spread not EV'd for Landorus-I?
Venusaur (M) @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 248 HP / 96 Def / 144 SpD / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off
- Synthesis
Quagsire (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Earthquake
- Scald
- Recover
- Toxic
Mandibuzz @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 136 Def / 108 SpD / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Defog
nice core, Its just a little weak to psychic manaphy no? I think pairing this core with a bulky electric such as av raikou or something can benefit you. Thats just my two cents however.
Every core is weak to certain mons, that's why people don't post cores of 6 pokemon lol.
he was simply pointing out a flaw in the core, so people would be aware.
Do not get butt blasted so easily.
Right...well sorry for trying to point out a flaw that I didnt know you already covered. Great core though! :]
Yes of course its going to be weak to the Manaphy set designed to lure it...
But tbh, its weaker to Kyurem-Black, but just add something like SpD Jirachi or a Clefable to help with it. You can go the semi-stall way and add something like a CM Latios or AV Conkelder and stuff I'm missing. the point of a core is something to build around yes, but you should make sure you're aware of the other slots you have, besides, its stall: worst case scenario is use Chansey. (which you should Always run 12 HP / 248 Def / 248 SpD Bold Nature, as eviolite rounds down)
there was discussion about this little guy last page, and i wanna just add on to that before it's too absorbed by other discussion points :x
scarf jirachi is such a great utility and role compression pokemon for offensive build. it's capable of checking tornadus-t, weavile, mega zam & regular zam, annoying fairies like clefable & mega gardevoir, and (probably the biggest one) latios & latias. it can whittle down fatter pokemon thanks to iron head's (and / or heart stamp's) 60% flinch chance. it provides "offensive" cleric support (doesn't kill momentum & you die) thanks to healing wish. these are all things that are pretty obvious about jirachi, really. however, they are what make it such an easy pokemon to throw on an offensive build nowadays. torn-t and weavile are super common right now, and a lati switch-in is necessary; having a pokemon that can handle those + fairies + more while also providing cleric support is huge.
however, jirachi isn't perfect. it struggles from the same thing every other choice item user struggles with by being locked into a move. on top of this, jirachi doesn't really have great coverage, so it's pretty easy to wall. misplaying with choice item users in general will give your opponent an edge, but misplaying with a choice user who doesn't really like being locked into any of its moves in most situations allows your opponent to gain so much momentum against you.
both tankchomp and landorus-t are at insanely high usage, and jirachi doesn't appreciate either of them, of course. yes, it can hit them hard with ice punch, but if you mispredict there, your opponent will be able to gain so much momentum (like with a lot of choice item users, but a bit worse), and going for u-turn means taking some residual damage usually.
even in light of those negative points, scarf jirachi is just great right now because of how it patches a bunch of holes in a typical offensive team. there's a cost to it, but it can be easily remedied by the rest of your team.
Trick works out well on Scarfrachi,just like on Rotom-W.
there was discussion about this little guy last page, and i wanna just add on to that before it's too absorbed by other discussion points :x
scarf jirachi is such a great utility and role compression pokemon for offensive build. it's capable of checking tornadus-t, weavile, mega zam & regular zam, annoying fairies like clefable & mega gardevoir, and (probably the biggest one) latios & latias. it can whittle down fatter pokemon thanks to iron head's (and / or heart stamp's) 60% flinch chance. it provides "offensive" cleric support (doesn't kill momentum & you die) thanks to healing wish. these are all things that are pretty obvious about jirachi, really. however, they are what make it such an easy pokemon to throw on an offensive build nowadays. torn-t and weavile are super common right now, and a lati switch-in is necessary; having a pokemon that can handle those + fairies + more while also providing cleric support is huge.
however, jirachi isn't perfect. it struggles from the same thing every other choice item user struggles with by being locked into a move. on top of this, jirachi doesn't really have great coverage, so it's pretty easy to wall. misplaying with choice item users in general will give your opponent an edge, but misplaying with a choice user who doesn't really like being locked into any of its moves in most situations allows your opponent to gain so much momentum against you.
both tankchomp and landorus-t are at insanely high usage, and jirachi doesn't appreciate either of them, of course. yes, it can hit them hard with ice punch, but if you mispredict there, your opponent will be able to gain so much momentum (like with a lot of choice item users, but a bit worse), and going for u-turn means taking some residual damage usually.
even in light of those negative points, scarf jirachi is just great right now because of how it patches a bunch of holes in a typical offensive team. there's a cost to it, but it can be easily remedied by the rest of your team.
We can choose use Trick or not during the gaming situation,if there is a hi-speed threat needs you to check you obviously should keep the Scarf,like Weavile and Alakazam,otherwise you can switch it out to cripple the opposing defensive core such as Heatran,Ferrothrn and Gliscor.
The meta has shifted to a heavy offense / bulky offense style that takes advantage of the inability to check every pokemon in oras. It's a lot more interesting though, since players are forced to strategically play around huge threats and also because safe plays aren't really 'safe' since 1 mistake/free turn for your opponent could be the difference between winning and losing. While that's true for any meta, its excessively inflated in oras because of the power/speed creep. With more time the meta should grow more diverse and will undoubtedly outgrow the cookie cutter rocky helmet chomp offense.
I would say assault vest metagross is a bit more valuable to offensive teams than choice scarf jirachi, because it's able to compress an additional role of a pursuit trapper. Reliably and effectively trapping and KOing latios, latias, and electric-types (to some extent/some games), and still being able to check things like clefable, azumarill, gardevoir, and weavile is really what sets it apart from other steels. Latios and Latias will be invaluable in 8/10 games because of their speed/power/utility/ability to check things like char-y/keldeo/manaphy; removing either Latios/Latias would significantly increase your chances of winning most games. Like Jirachi, it also struggles with landorus/garchomp and it doesn't have the luxury of outspeeding things like weavile/gardevoir; which isn't too bad since it can just use bullet punch to KO both after stealth rocks and a little residual damage.
I would say assault vest metagross is a bit more valuable to offensive teams than choice scarf jirachi, because it's able to compress an additional role of a pursuit trapper. Reliably and effectively trapping and KOing latios, latias, and electric-types (to some extent/some games), and still being able to check things like clefable, azumarill, gardevoir, and weavile is really what sets it apart from other steels. Latios and Latias will be invaluable in 8/10 games because of their speed/power/utility/ability to check things like char-y/keldeo/manaphy; removing either Latios/Latias would significantly increase your chances of winning most games. Like Jirachi, it also struggles with landorus/garchomp and it doesn't have the luxury of outspeeding things like weavile/gardevoir; which isn't too bad since it can just use bullet punch to KO both after stealth rocks and a little residual damage.
The only gripe I have with Trick on Jirachi is that it just gets so much utility from running HW that it is virtually impossible to pass it up - especially given that the types of builds you normally find ScarfRachi on tend to be very capable of overpressuring the key targets of Trick with the support combo of U-turn, Iron Head's flinch rate and Healing Wish anyway.
Edit: wtf how did autocorrect see types as toes lmao
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What do you guys think of Mega Diance? I've had some fun using the RP set, which is pretty awesome- many teams a re prepared for Mega Diance, but not all of them are prepared for one that can Outspeed their scarfed Keldeo. My problem with it though is that it's actually quite frail in its Mega form as well as being a deadweight when Scizor is on the opposing team (I don't run HP fire) And also being able to be picked off by Azu with the least bit of prior damage. I haven't used the CM set, but I have contemplated the use of a double dance set with CM/RP/Moonblast/Diamond Storm or Earth Power. I don't know how this would work, though, since it doesn't really like giving up any more moveslots. The RP set works amazing with Magnezone/HP fire lure Kyurem-B, which can weaken Ferro and, hopefully, get rid of Scizor. I honestly also just like the RP set because it has more power, being able to fully invest in special attack as well as use a rash nature, and you can invest a little more in attack.
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