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So Pelipper is gone, Machoke can freely run ice punch, SD monferno lost a counter, hazard stack is looking more promising, and PU gets the short end of the stick in this quick shift. Disregarding this whole dpunch ban as it seems to be out of the realm of possibility, I'd like to discuss changes I expect and have seen in the meta so far and well as mons that have been useful for me personally.
Colbur Gourgeist-XL has been very useful on ladder for me as it can provide a switch into machoke and leech seed/synth away any damage. Gourg can also function as a good switch into the most common mime set which is a bonus as I'd imagine that Mime usage will go up as a result of monf + choke being more viable and Eggy being banned. In addition, Gourgeist-XL can function as a physical water resist (as pelipper did) as basculin and floatzel lost a check as well.
Vullaby is our last remaining physically defensive defogging option, which in and of itself is terrifying to think about. I have always run brave bird on my Vullabys as I did not like the lack of ability to combat SD monferno and weakened machokes but I feel as though Vullaby will be more pressured to run BB or u-turn over taunt. Brave bird also gives it a decent answer to roselia stacking spikes so I think this would be preferred. Lastly, Vullaby can serve as a check to offensive Grumpig (which I expect to see more to handle the previously mentioned fighting types).
Roselia has certainly gotten better with the departure of Eggy/Vig because it can now run its most common spdef/hazard stack set reliably. The loss of an essential defogger in Pelipper has benefited it as well so I see good reason for Roselia to reclaim its place at the top of PU.
Stunfisk usage can be expected to increase as fisk is a solid switch-in to Vullaby and Monferno. However, this is a double edge sword because of Roselia freely being able to switch into it and set hazards.
I see a tremendous amount of pressure on our hazard removal overall. We have four viable removers in Vullaby, Swanna, Vibrava, and Armaldo and I feel as though that is simply not enough to prepare for what is to come. One last thing I'd like to point out is that Avalugg/Torkoal were kept at bay by Pelipper. I'd be interested to see if either gain viability as a spinners.
With Golem and Stunfisk being the two most common Stealth Rockers atm this is an old set that should be brought up. With the loss of Pelliper, hazards are becomming easier and easier to keep on the field. This set does a good job of OHKOing Golem, while also weakening Defoggers such as Vullaby. Golem is the main target of this set as with out a reliable answer we often times find ourselfs trading a Mon with Golem. So with this set you have the option of killing Golem strait away or if your opponent sees this coming and leads with something else you can reliably get up Rocks breaking Golems sturdy latter on in the Match. Just a set i wanted to bring up for discussion., and seen if anybody else has tried it lately and other thoughts of Stealth Rockers in the current Metagame atm.
Similar to my last post here in the older NP thread, I'm going to comment on current meta trends as the game has changed significantly with one of our best defoggers leaving, and with the bans of both Exeggutor and Vigoroth.
Currently, Golem is by far our most popular lead, meaning it is advised for teams to prepare for it by packing a switch-in that doesn't die to QuakeEdge coverage, like Tangela / Gourgeist-Super / Quilladin, among others.
Golem being so popular also means that the use of anti-leads, like CB Bullet Seed Leafeon, Offensive Quilladin, TauntWisp Misdreavus, and even Surf Mold Breaker Rampardos as ShuckleDeath has posted above can be justified on Balance and Offensive teams alike.
A few auth have also noticed that running a specially defensive spread rather than Golem as a suicide lead is perfectly viable, letting it act as an Electric immunity / Flying resist / Normal resist over the course of a battle, which makes it extremely difficult for Wallbreakers like CB Dodrio to break past teams that use Utility Golem as a component of their defensive backbones. Utility Golem looks like this:
Golem @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Protect / Toxic
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
16 EVs in Defense with Impish gives Golem a Jump point in Defense, but generally it is best to max HP and SpDef; there is also the option of using dodmen's spread here for increased Attack. Given Golem's lack of reliable recovery outside of Leftovers + Protect (as is a pretty common problem with Stealth Rockers in our tier), this pairs nicely with Wish Support Audino, and then filling the rest of the team out with checks to Fighting-types.
With Exeggutor leaving the tier, a few notable things have happened. Other Grass-types such as Roselia, Gogoat, specially defensive Tangela, and even Yache Gourgeist-Super can be used again as checks to offensive Water-types (Floatzel especially, Simipour too). Passho Stunfisk can lure Floatzel as well, with Politoed still being considered as an answer to Water Spam in general.
Pokemon everywhere can go back to using less Bug-type coverage, unless it was standard on these Pokemon to begin with (Electrode's Signal Beam will still be used); for example, both Kadabra and Grumpig are able to run Fighting / Ghost / Psychic coverage rather than relying on Signal Beam to increase their odds when pitted against Eggy, with utility moves in Thunder Wave / Toxic / Taunt / Encore being used in their 3rd and 4th slots. What's more, Stunfisk using Hidden Power Bug to hit Exeggutor super effectively can finally go back to using Protect or a status like Thunder Wave, Yawn, or Toxic.
It's possible to use Dazzling Gleam for Dark types like Vullaby / Zweilous, as they take more damage from DGleam than they do from HP Fighting (however, this leaves you walled by Probopass). It's also able to squeeze in Psyshock or Taunt on each set, but that is team dependent.
Losing Pelipper in a metagame containing many entry hazard setters, yet with few options for hazard removal has certainly been a setback for Balance in general and has produced several noteworthy side-effects:
Firstly, Electric coverage is no longer mandatory on Offensive Water-types like Floatzel, Simipour (and Basculin, to a lesser extent), or on Fighting-types like Monferno and Machoke in the form of Thunder Punch that are looking to OHKO this bird and keep their teammates' hazards on the field.
In Floatzel's and Simipour's cases, they are able to use HP Grass, Focus Blast or a utility move like Taunt, while in Machoke's case, it can completely forgo Thunder Punch in favor of Ice Punch in order to hit Flyers more effectively. In the case of Monferno, U-Turn or Swords Dance is a nice fit in that last slot, with Hidden Power Ice being a final option with LO sets that can lure Altaria and exploit its x4 weakness to Ice.
Pelipper can in short be replaced by other defoggers, making Lumineon much more usable than it was before. While Lumineon is arguably not as good due to its lack of Roost and the fact that it's affected by Toxic Spikes / Spikes as it's switching in, Lumineon has a nice Water immunity and can employ Protect well when faced with threats like Custap Explosion Golem. Scalding Golem, then following up with Protect to block the Explosion is a great way to beat it without losing Lumineon. If you need to outspeed Jolly Golem, this can be solved by running Bold over Relaxed (although in doing so, your U-Turn becomes somewhat faster and is more difficult to obtain momentum). E: 8 Spe Bold Lumineon outspeeds Adamant Pawniard, and lets you Scald twice on it, possibly incapacitating Pawniard for the rest of the match.
Vigoroth leaving means teams no longer have to over-prepare by using less efficient move slots and team slots in order to beat this monster, which greatly eases teambuilding in general. That means, running Normal resists without recovery like Golem, Relicanth, Probopass, and Metang is perfectly fine, and you don't have to take additional steps in order to stop offensive Normal-types such as Stoutland or Dodrio, like you had to when Vigoroth was around.
Vigoroth's absence also means that Munchlax is more usable than before. Munchlax is okay, but really relies on its teammates taking care of Ghost types like Misdreavus and Steel types like Probopass for it before setting up with Curse. One benefit that Munchlax has over Vigoroth is that it supplies teams with a munch needed (hah, get it) resistance to Ice-types like Rotom-F via its ability, Thick Fat.
Munchlax @ Eviolite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 136 Def / 120 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Frustration / Body Slam
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Whirlwind
Munchlax @ Eviolite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Body Slam / Frustration
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Curse
Finally, these 3 seem to be the clear winners with the most recent shift and bans (Monferno and other Grass-types too), as they have few counters that aren't considered "niche" (lol Chinchou) or none at all without first seeing their sets, and as such, they should be carefully considered when building newer teams in this meta.
They're so good, that running Protect on more than one Pokemon is a completely viable strategy to avoid 50/50s (where you might be hit by Volt Switch or Blizzard in Rotom-F's case / need to see if Floatzel is physical or special or even LO mixed).
Rotom-F has a criminally low amount of true counters, and even then, Pokemon that take little damage from Rotom-F (Grumpig, Audino, Probopass as examples here), can simply be pivoted out of via Volt Switch into something like Stoutland, which beats all of these fairly reliably. Not to mention the fact that Trick cripples Audino and other SpDef walls, making them shaky switch-ins in some scenarios.
In order to beat Rotom-F, you can build with SpDef Camerupt, as it is able to take a couple of Blizzards after SR, is immune to Electric STAB, and doesn't care about SubWoW shenanigans. Thick Fat Pokemon like Grumpig and even Munchlax, and other Pokemon with abnormally high SpDef like Audino and Tank Regice can also be used to sponge its hits. And lastly, you can choose to check it offensively, with something like Timid Scarf Chatot (outspeeds Scarf Rotom-F if Timid / hits SubWisp Rotom-F behind a Sub with BoomBurst).
Machoke is similarly hard to prepare for, meaning you can build by simply checking it offensively and taking advantage of its low Speed with something like CB Dodrio, by employing a Dark/Fighting resist through the use of Colbur Berry on things like Grumpig and Gourgeist, or even unorthodox Own Tempo lures, like I posted here with Lickilicky.
Just noticed that the current Curse Munchlax spread you posted isn't efficient at all. Munchlax already has an obnoxious HP and more than enough special bulk, so investing in physical bulk produces far better results. Because of the tiny physical bulk stat and eviolite boost, investment in that yields significantly higher value than investing in HP.
Here are some calcs to illustrate the better distribution of EVs.
252+ Atk Machoke Dynamic Punch vs. +1 0 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Munchlax: 176-210 (42.8 - 51%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Machoke Dynamic Punch vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Munchlax: 270-320 (56.9 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Stoutland Superpower vs. +1 0 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Munchlax: 226-266 (54.9 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Stoutland Superpower vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Munchlax: 346-408 (72.9 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
As you can see, it's a HUGE difference in physical bulk.
252 SpA Mr. Mime Psychic vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Munchlax: 67-79 (16.3 - 19.2%) -- possible 6HKO
252 SpA Mr. Mime Psychic vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Munchlax: 67-79 (14.1 - 16.7%) -- possible 6HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Floatzel Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Munchlax: 95-113 (23.1 - 27.4%) -- 58.6% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Floatzel Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Munchlax: 95-113 (20 - 23.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
However, the amount of special bulk lost isn't actually too notable.
PU NPs are constantly fairly dead without suspects but o well here goes nothing. Spikes are really good right now, I don't think that's disputable, but we have 4 solid choices and I thought I'd talk about the differences, different sets each individual one can run, when you'd use which, etc. There's so much variety here that hopefully there's more room for discussion. I might also write something up on spikes abusers/supporters/threats at a later point but this is plenty for now.
Definitely the best of the bunch, not entirely convinced it's S but still incredibly effective. It's not just the spikes, this thing is a real pain to switch into with Arbok and Metang being the only common Pokemon to resist its dual high BP STABs from base 100 Special Attack. In addition to having both spikes depending on what the team needs, it also gets access to Sleep Powder which can make it even more annoying to deal with, and on the defensive side it's got some great bulk with Eviolite, a coveted Water resist, and both Synthesis and Natural Cure to heal itself up. The biggest drawbacks are that it's weak to Rotom-F (like everything else) and has mediocre speed. Definitely the top spiker in a number of situations.
Vanilla Defensive
Roselia @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD
Calm Nature
- Spikes / Toxic Spikes
- Synthesis
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
Fairly basic, you can change around EVs to live some random stuff like Leafeon knocks or Floatzel ice moves. 180 SpDef is also a more common thing to take a +2 Ice Beam from Gorebyss at full.
Basic Offensive
Roselia @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
Modest Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Synthesis / Spikes / Toxic Spikes
- Sleep Powder / Spikes / Toxic Spikes
People might run different stuff, I like just no synth but this is more customizable
The Shaneghoul special
Roselia @ Focus Sash
Ability: Poison Point
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpDef / 252 Spe
Modest / Timid Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Spikes / Toxic Spikes
- Leaf Storm
- Sludge Bomb / Toxic Spikes
Surprise suicide lead Roselia, mostly annoying because, unlike the ones I'm gonna mention later, it gets a Sleep move and has actual offensive presence. The downside is you're often limited to just a single spike and missing sleep screws up your game plan a ton really early
This thing gets a lot of hype every so often, it's not bad but people go from loving it to not really remembering it's a solid option (although this happens to a ton of other stuff that happen to not be 2xTheTap's bonermon like Ninetales or Ninjask). Defensive is like a worse Tangela but has Spikes and phazing so it can fit on a few teams, offensive is cool because it's not too hard to get down multiple spikes and still checks a ton of relevant things like Floatzel and Roselia (Bulletproof) but has a bit of 4mss. Definitely a solid choice, although again it's held back by poor speed and fucking Rotom.
Suicide Spiker
Quilladin @ Eviolite
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Wood Hammer
- Endeavor
This used to differentiate itself from Venipede thanks to it being able to Taunt things like Golem, although I'm not sure that it has much worth with Glalie in the tier. Still, basic suicide can never really suck.
Offensive
Quilladin @ Eviolite
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly/Adamant Nature
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Wood Hammer
- Zen Headbutt / Drain Punch
The offensive set I went over in the main paragraph, checks a ton of stuff and spikes. Zen is needed to hit Roselia to end the war where you both wall each other but can't do anything, Drain Punch hits Pawniard (and I guess normal types like Stoutland without recoil plus some extra recovery).
Quilladin @ Eviolite
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Roar
- Synthesis
- Seed Bomb
Tangela+Spikes. Still bulky and can beat things like Stoutland but not as reliable as other defensive Grass-types (gourg xl and even rose also give it plenty of competition)
The more standard suicide leads. Glalie gets Taunt, Explosion and Freeze Dry to actually hit things like Golem and every Defogger and can never really be set up on, Venipede gets both Spikes+Speed Boost+Endeavor and can be a bit annoying if teams don't have something specific for it like Rock Blast Golem. Also people should stop using Whirlipede, I see way too much of this shit. Both have decent places as offensive leads, just more one-dimensional than Roselia and Quilladin with 2-3 sets they can run.
Venipede @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Protect
- Endeavor
Very basic, doesn't even need extra EVs since no attacks and running bulk doesn't help with anything.
Glalie @ Focus Sash
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Explosion
- Freeze-Dry
Still bog standard, isn't fodder for every ghost and setup fodder for a decent amount of the tier unlike Pede but also no TSpikes and Speed Boost.
The crappy stuff
Whirlipede isn't bad on paper, Venipede just outclasses it by beating out a number of things at +1 with its higher speed that whirl can't like Kadabra, Mime, and the Simis, that could otherwise screw with their spiking. Frogadier also isn't too bad per say, there's just little reason to run it with the mriiad of better Water-types and spikers abundant in the tier, it fails to really stand out for a niche on any teams. Dwebble's actually ranked unlike the other two, but unlike other spikers the best it can do to stop setup is to run either galbia's Bulldoze/Rock Tomb set or Rocks/Spikes/Smash/Rock Blast. Still, unlike the others, it has both Spikes and Stealth Rock and can use something like Custap berry thanks to Sturdy.
I've used Frogadier quite a bit and while it's no floatzel or roselia, it does have a place on some teams. I mostly used a set consiting of Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Toxic Spikes and U-Turn with a Life Orb. Frogadier already doesn't have a ton of switch ins and if they do carry one it's easy to get momentum with U-Turn or Toxic Spikes. Each of these provide a huge boost to teams that like momentum and Toxic Spikes are huge for whittling on offensive, momentum based teams. So it sorta condenses roles that both Rose and Float would usually fill individually.
Cryogonal: A weakness to Stealth Rock is a downer, but it's fast, has reliable recovery, and can beat both Roselia and Water-types thanks to a STAB in Freeze-Dry. Might get outclassed by Articuno and even Vanniluxe in terms of an attacker, but its utility as a spinner will surely be useful to some teams.
Prinplup: I always wanted this thing back. Ironically it seems to the perfect partner to something like Tangela. It sponges hits from most Fire-types (Set-up fodder for Ninetales but still), has Defog to rid the field of hazards that wear Tangela down, and so on. Shame it doesn't get reliable recovery. Outside of Tangela though, this is mon that'll succeed in its utility more than anything else. Having a good bulky Defogger that isn't Vullably is always nice to have.
Ampharos: What does this even do that other Electric-types can't do a shit ton better? I guess an Agility set (with HP Ice, Focus Blast and Thunderbolt) might work, since it's kind of bulky (you still lose to Golem and Stunfisk anyway but still), but what else? Maybe a defensive pivot with Heal Bell or something.
These assumptions might be completely wrong, but who knows?
I believe it has like the highest SpA available for an electric type, yh the only thing that even comes remotely close is Rotom-Frost. Agility will be fun, so will specs, and pivot will be something more niche but it has Heal Bell sooooo
Cryogonal: A weakness to Stealth Rock is a downer, but it's fast, has reliable recovery, and can beat both Roselia and Water-types thanks to a STAB in Freeze-Dry. Might get outclassed by Articuno and even Vanniluxe in terms of an attacker, but its utility as a spinner will surely be useful to some teams.
Prinplup: I always wanted this thing back. Ironically it seems to the perfect partner to something like Tangela. It sponges hits from most Fire-types (Set-up fodder for Ninetales but still), has Defog to rid the field of hazards that wear Tangela down, and so on. Shame it doesn't get reliable recovery. Outside of Tangela though, this is mon that'll succeed in its utility more than anything else. Having a good bulky Defogger that isn't Vullably is always nice to have.
Ampharos: What does this even do that other Electric-types can't do a shit ton better? I guess an Agility set (with HP Ice, Focus Blast and Thunderbolt) might work, since it's kind of bulky (you still lose to Golem and Stunfisk anyway but still), but what else? Maybe a defensive pivot with Heal Bell or something.
These assumptions might be completely wrong, but who knows?
You are really underselling both cryo and ampharos. Cryo is a pretty nice drop considering it gives spike stack an actually good spinner to use, it may not have the power of articuno but it has an amazing speed tier at base 105 which outspeeds simis, dodrio, HP kadabra (if that HP lowers speed IVs) and anything lower. Cryo can also 1v1 all defoggers meaning that it doesn't give the opponent a free defog which is pretty nice as most teams rely on defoggers for hazard removal. Also I think a good set might feature both ice beam and freeze dry as freeze dry is pretty piss weak and really cryo has no amazing coverage outside of more utility moves like knock off or recover.
As far as amph is concerned it has by far the largest sp atk stat of all electric types and has access to agility which may prove to be quite a threat. Also an AV set might be good as it has a good enough BST to not rely on boosting items for its attack power or for its bulk (AV is just a nice addition to that already good bulk) where as most of our other electrics do rely on an item for their power/bulk (zeb, electrode, buzz). I certainly don't think either of these mons will massively change the meta but I would say both will be pretty viable. Also amph agility sets will carry Focus blast so they can most likely straight KO golem depending on spreads.
I really like this tier shift. 3 cool things to screw around with, but the nice thing is I'm not looking at all my teams and thinking "wow these are outdated now better build another 70". They're fun to play around with, but they don't put some pressure on teams that nothing else did so at best you want to work your spike stack around cryo a bit better but if you weren't carrying ice checks or couldn't beat a bulky water then what even was your team lol. Anyway Cryo is clearly gonna be the best w/very nice speed+spin+ground immunity+fuck rotom-f and I expect to be seeing a lot out of it, Amphy's gonna be solidly mediocre. However I'm really not all /that/ excited for Prinplup, people seem to forget it wasn't great last time. Another defogger is nice another water switch is nice, don't get me wrong. But it's forced to switch into hazards (won't switch into rose/quill/fisk very well and even like gabite and golem do a lot or cripple with toxic) and doesn't have recovery to make it kinda stuck between removing or sticking around to beat float. It's gonna be alright but people have sounded really positive, although maybe it's just me.
Hi, so I figured I would post on the three drops and how I think they'll impact the meta in the future. Between the three, Cryogonal and Prinplup both provide hazard control which is super helpful in this point in time, especially Cryogonal, since a lot of hazard reliant teams were forced to use a Defogger or opt out of hazard control in total. Anyways now I'll discuss each individually.
So Cryogonal is definitely the drop I've been waiting for the most and I'm most excited to have. I've always loved offensive hazard removers with recovery and Cryogonal is super nice for this particular meta since it beats the most common Stealth Rocker and Spikes user in Stunfisk and Roselia.
For the meta as a whole, I can definitely see a decrease in the viability and use of Roselia balance teams that look sorta like Stunfisk / Roselia / Offensive Water / etc, since Cryogonal takes on the more common cores in this sorta build. On the other hand, I think more offensive Spikes teams can be more successful while still being able to afford hazard-weak Pokemon such as Ninjask and Rapidash. With Cryogonal dropping, I can see a big rise in Fire-types, since while HP Ground is still a very viable option, I think HP Fighting will be more commonly used for Rotom-F, therefore Pokemon such as Rapidash, Ninetales, and Monferno can all take advantage of it, the latter two being able to set up on it. It also has cool options such as Knock Off to hit Grumpig and spinblockers and Haze for setup sweepers like Gorebyss, but other than that I think it's pretty set in stone what it's mainly going to run. Support Cryogonal can probably pretty nice for stall, though I haven't played at all with that so I'll wait until another time to post about that.
Cryogonal @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Freeze-Dry
- Hidden Power [Fighting] / Hidden Power [Ground]
- Recover
- Rapid Spin
Ampharos is an interesting drop that seems pretty useless at first, facing a lot of competition from mainly Rotom-F, which is an amazing Pokemon in this meta (hence why it's S-rank), as well as Zebstrika, Raichu, and Stunfisk (defensively). I honestly dont think Ampharos will have much of an impact at all, but I played with this thing a little bit today and looked to take advantage of it's high Special Attack and nice bulk. Agility is something I saw people in chat talking a lot about, but I honestly don't see it working at all, considering all the scarfers running around at the moment and the fact that Ampharos is unable to break through Pokemon such as Stunfisk and Roselia, and I would rather use Raichu if I wanted an Electric-type setup sweeper. Instead, Assault Vest seems to be pretty nice as a bulky pivot since it does a good job of taking advantage of it's bulk and Special Attack while checking Pokemon such as Floatzel, Rotom-F, and Simipour.
Ampharos @ Assault Vest
Ability: Static
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Modest Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]
(outspeeds Adamant Golem)
Prinplup is a Pokemon we had not long ago and it honestly wasn't that impactful in that meta, and I don't see it being much different here (still better than Probopass). While Prinplup brings PU another Stealth Rocker and Defogger, it's still something that's worn down very quickly and stacks roles a ton, not to mention that it's completely countered by Roselia and it's extremely passive, making it setup fodder for Pokemon such as SD Ursaring and SD Leafeon, both of which can tear up teams at +2. Unless you need Stealth Rock and Defog out of one Pokemon, Lumineon is honestly just your better choice here, as it isn't nearly as item-reliant, has U-turn, and has usable Speed that lets it outspeed and get off a Scald on some Pokemon such as Pawniard and Golem. So not much to say here, but I'll leave the set for those of you who aren't familiar with it.
Prinplup @ Eviolite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Scald
- Toxic
- Defog
Anyways, I look forward to this meta and I think it'll be less boring than it was pre-shifts.
I think it's worth noting that Prinplup and Audino are probably excellent partners, as Prinplup loves wish support and Audino loves defog support. Plus Audino checks a few of the things that beat Prinplup (not really vice versa though)
I usually don't like to post in np threads until I already either tried drops or some time has passed since tier shift, but this one isn't that big and the Pokemon that dropped aren't going to affect the metagame heavily so might as well post some of my opinions since others have also being doing it. All the drops looks decent / good, but not that fantastic either, a stronger Electric-type is cool to have as the others we had didn't hit and some more ways to remove entry hazards will hopefully help most playstyles. I will just talk about Cryogonal for now, I have to try Ampharos to see if like Agility, AVest and bulky are worth using over other Electric-types or special tanks before making a posta about it, also we already had Prinplup in the past, and it just doesn't look to be any better from when it dropped, but I may be wrong so I will probably make a post about it in the future.
Agreeing with others that this may be the best out of the three. Despite having an horrible defense stat, Cryogonal will still have a few niches in our metagame, first off by being the actually first good Rapid Spin user we have had in a while. This is due to its fantastic specially defensive bulk along with high Speed and Special Attack, which will make it a solid choice on both offensive and defensive teams. On offensive teams, mainly ones that abuse entry hazard stacking, but also ones that just don't want to run a defensive Defog user to get rid of entry hazard, as an alternative to like Swanna. While on defensive teams, especially stall teams that appreciate Spikes support and so struggle with fitting in a Defog user, Cryogonal will be a decent fit mainly because access to Recover too. Ground-type immunity doesn't directly help with checking anything, as most Pokemon that carry Ground-type coverage will most of the time be able to KO Cryogonal anyway, but it helps in like switching onto Spikes and make up for the Stealth Rock weakness given by the Ice-type, which honestly I'm not too fond of either, as it gives it some annoying weaknesses and not that useful resistances(only Ice-type itself, if i'm not mistaken?). I read somewhere that this is supposed to have a bad movepool, but honestly it is pretty decent, access to like Toxic, Substitute, Haze, Freeze-Dry, Knock Off and other cool stuff still make its movepool ok at minimum. Something I found annoying about Cryogonal is the damn 4MSS syndrome it has, I swear you want to fit a fuck ton of moves in the set, but Ice-STAB + Rapid Spin and at times Recover are mandatory so you don't have many remaining slots for like coverage or utility. Overall good Pokemon but not that exceptional at a point where I would fit it into most of my teams.
A bit disappointed that poliwrath didnt drop, but overall is a good tiershift as it could've been worse and we gained 2 great additions for hazard control, also we lost nothing and thankfully nothing dangerous such as crustle dropped: Cryogonal: looking forward to use it, theres no doubt its the best above the three drops for this month, its probabily the best offensive spinner we have so far(access to recovery, immunity to spikes with levitate, nice speed).I also expect that its horrible defense stat will bring more players to run pursuit in order to get rid of it more easily, also a rise of fire types is gonna be considerable of course, so this mon will surely have its good impact to the meta. Prinplup: hm I still prefer lumineon, this penguin is more passive yet way bulkier but evio dependant. Overall a nice defogger, it also learns stealth rock as a nice plus, seems suited for more defensive teams and will completely outclass wartortle imo, but just like him lacks recovery and is also setup fodder for threats such as sub sd bouffalant, not gonna be a big fan of him but I can see its gonna have some good use anyway. Ampharos: I'm really curious to see how it will end up being ranked, overall it faces tough competition with the other obvious electrics in the tier(raichu, zebstrika, rotom, stunfisk etc.) but its good bulk paired with its high sp.atk is gonna turn it into a good pivot and AV user, and as someone already mentioned it outspeeds golem, which is always a good thing, theres also the possibility of running an agility offensive set but imo its gonna be rather meh. Overall its an interesting pokemon who will survive in this meta through its decent niches but wont see a high placement in the tier.
Ok there is not too much to say about the new drops so i'll only add a few comments. Ampharos doesn't appeal to me at all as offensively its walled just as much as other electrics, and agility is still easily outsped by scarfers (not yet saying its awful..), to utilise its bulk properly it will have to use AV but generally i would prefer ebuzz as it can outspeed rotom-f and not get sub stalled by focus blast misses, though its extra bulk + power is nice so it might get some usage. Prinplup is interesting as it was fairly under appreciated when it was last in the tier and most of its usage was with Scyther, but now there are plenty of water-types for it to check (along with others like golem), though watortle gets little usage despite being fairly similar. Cryogonal looks like the best of the 3 as offense is overdue a solid spinner!!! Even freeze dry is surprisingly powerful, and HP fight hits steel-types and rotom-f hard, though leaving it walled by grumpig. I imagine recover will be best in that last slot, though something like explosion could be cool to get off a lot of damage to grumpig/monf/etc after it spins. Though they aren't too much I think they will make some meta trends
Ninjask is looking extremely threatening rn. Even before the tier shift it was fairly underrated, as despite stunfisk/golem usage being fairly high, ninjask could get off chip damage and have a teammate like stoutland or electric types try to bait in and weaken them, or just have a sub rotom-f. Now it has 2 new options to remove hazards, cryogonal particularly fits very well on offense and can KO stunfisk golem and relicanth after a uturn (though pursuit dusk means its not too reliable). I actually had a game yesterday vs dundies, he was trying some of the drops and had (iirc) both amphy and camerupt, but yet ninjask still managed to sweep late game as my team was suited to weakening its checks and I even had speed boost to screw over his scarfer (i cant remember the battle well enough to know if that came into play). Stunfisk i dont think will remain high in usage, as other grounds and rotom-f are getting more usage, however as i said things like golem and gabite are now more popular which though they get warn down, just have to be kept high enough to avoid the KO from x-sissor which isn't hard as if you play it right, ninjask might not have too many opportunities to come in. Priority also screws it. Idk if this will become a very huge threat, or just get a bit better (well more usage i reckon as rn its not seen much).
People have compared Amphy to Stunfisk as a defensive elec but honestly it is a crappy comparison as the only thing they have in common is electric typing. Amphy is a really cool cleric for more balanced/fat squads, and with the increased array of defoggers/spinners that the drops have brought I've started having much more success with more defensively inclined builds. If you ignore the standard offensive sets and look deeper into Ampharos' movepool, you can pull out supportive gems in Heal Bell and Thunder Wave. Seeing these, I've messed around with the following sets:
Ampharos @ Leftovers
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Heal Bell
- Toxic / Thunderbolt / Hidden Power [Ice/Water]
- Thunder Wave
Ampharos @ Leftovers / Chesto Berry
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Thunder Wave / Toxic
- Rest
- Sleep Talk / Toxic / Heal Bell
EVs are prolly super suboptimal, but ya support amphy is kinda underrated, and I'm gonna keep experimenting with defensive/balanced teams to take advantage of gaining Prinplup and Cryo. Amphy will most likely work its way onto some of these, as being able to provide a slow Volt Switch and Heal Bell support is sweet af.
I'll give my opinion on the newest drops to the tier.
Ampharos is an interesting Electric-type providing bulk as well as pulling off an Agility set can that make it into an interesting sweeper despite how slow it is at first glance But Ampharos does have a higher Special Attack stat than both Raichu and Zebstrika meaning it can provide more offensive presence right off the bat, but like the former two Pokemon, it struggles against Stunfisk and can still be picked off by faster and stronger attackers.
Ampharos @ Life Orb
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest / Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Agility
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Focus Blast
This is pretty much Ampharos's main set in PU: a powerful Agility late-game sweeper capable of pulling off solid damage. Nothing fancy with the set of Thunderbolt for STAB and HP Ice providing pseudo BoltBeam coverage with Focus Blast for Rock- and Steel-types, but mainly for Rotom-F. Modest provides more power to its attacks whereas Timid can be run to outspeed Choice Scarf Rotom-F by 8 points and OHKO with Focus Blast.
Ampharos @ Leftovers
Ability: Static
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Focus Blast / Toxic
This set basically turns Ampharos into an offensive tank with the neccessary bulk to take some hits and deal back. The one main thing to note here is Toxic as Ampharos struggles to break past Stunfisk. While also not manditory, some Speed from 44 to 52 to outspeed uninvested to 8 Speed Vullaby or 176 to outspeed Adamant Golem can be run and although some people have brought up Assault Vest like Dundies stated, as it can act as a solid special tank like AV Bouffalant, l feel that the passive recovery Leftovers helps it out in the long run.
One of the better hazard removers PU acquired by far, Cryogonal provides Rapid Spin, access to Recover, a solid base 135 Special Defense and base 105 Speed, and Levitate to avoid Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Sticky Web and a Ground immunity, offensive oriented teams love having non passive hazard removal on their side and for good reason. However, this doesn't come without drawbacks which is mainly Cryogonal's crap Defense which lets it die to most physical attacks. Despite this, the demand for hazard control has slighty been alleviated with Cryogonal's apperance in the tier.
Mostly what I believe to be its main set as keeps offensive pressure while clearing hazards for teammates. The choice between Ice Beam and Freeze-Dry is more of a personal preference with Ice Beam for a stronger STAB while Freeze-Dry is weaker, but hits Water-types super effectively. HP Fighting hits Steel-types such as Pawniard and Probopass and Recover to keep its health high from Life Orb recoil and can bypass Sucker Punch users.
Cryogonal @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 240 HP / 192 Def / 76 SpD
Calm Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Freeze-Dry / Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Recover
Something I've been trying out is to have Cryogonal act as a reliable spinner while also being bulky enough to take hits at the cost of offensive presence making this more suited for balanced teams. As for the EV spread, 240 HP EVs along with 76 SpD EVs and a Calm nature ensures that Cryogonal can survive two Life Orb Hydro Pumps from Floatzel from full health with the rest added to defense to take physical attacks better as well as some non super effective priority attacks.
Prinplup returns as another hazard remover and hazard setter all in one which is great for teams that want to compress roles into one Pokemon. Being able to act as a Water check as well as having a solid matchup against other common Stealth Rock users such as Golem and Camerupt lets it perform its role pretty well despite its downside of a lack of recovery and being passive against most Grass-types, particularly Roselia as well as offensive teams that can easily overwhelm Prinplup. Despite its flaws, it has a solid role as a support Pokemon and it can perform that role well given the right support.
Prinplup @ Eviolite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Defog
- Scald
- Toxic
Nothing has changed from this set from the last time Prinplup was here as its ability to support its teammates with Hazard removal and Stealth Rock support all in one. Scald for STAB and the potential burn chance and Toxic cripples bulkier stuff that doesn't mind Scald such as Politoed. As stated by Magnemite, Audino does make a great partner to Prinplup as Prinplup likes the Wish support Audino provides and Audino appreciates hazard being remove so it isn't so reliant on Wish to keep itself healthy. While Prinplup is helpless against Grass types like Roselia, it makes a solid partner as well ans like the aforementioned Audino it likes hazards removed while also appreciates Prinplup taking Ice- and Fire-attacks while Prinplup appreciates Roselia taking Grass- and Electric-attacks aimed at Prinplup while also providing Toxic Spikes support so Prinplup isn't so reliant on Toxic.
A lot has already been said about the new Drops. 2 new Mons for Hazard control, always a plus and a new bulky electric(which I wish had Lightning Rod/Volt Absorb js). I will say have been enjoying Prinplup on my volt-turn team as it allows me to have Stealth rocks and defog on one Mon allowing for another threatening Pokemon such as.......
Haha yes I want to talk about my newest love interest Mr.Mime here. Quick brief on it's most common set, Scarf. Scarf Mime has been a nice Mon in the tier for as long as I've been here. Baton Pass is just great for momentum and Mr.mime is one of the typical "play around' Mons as while it's dual Stab and coverage in Focus Blast is very hard to switch into but never the less your opponent is going to be forced to ether switch into a predicted Move or stay in and go for damage on it which is why Baton pass is so great on it. Healing Wish is probably the more commonly seen filler as it always seems to be able to get one off if needed and healing Wish is just great for offensive and Balance teams alike and mime fits great on both. specs and Life Orb work similarly as Scarf Life Orb allows for the use of Nasty Plot turning Mime into a very threatening breaker. It's Physical Bulk is dodo butter, but it has the Special Bulk to take a hit or two and retaliate so I always find it doing something even if non-scarf.
Mr. Mime @ Expert Belt
Ability: Filter
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Focus Blast
- Healing Wish/Nasty Plot/Baton Pass
This is the set I have really been enjoying lately. This set does some cool stuff like OHKOing Monferno, 50% chance to OHKO common Machoke with psychic(~80% after Rocks), 2HKOing Audino with Focus Blast(before hazards) it is also incredibly easy to bluff a scarf which is pretty much the only reason to use it over LO, but it is so easy to do the only time it doesn't seem to work at least once a game for me is if people know I am using it already. The filler options still all apply as well, NP is great on this set as all those 2HKO's (Audi possible Machoke) become easy OHKO's does great Damage against Most a Rank's you will probably be trading Mime now and then but it typically always weakens stuff say like Grumpig for team mates Such as Monferno. It is just feels great to severely weaken a Roselia than bopping a Probopass or Pawnaird on the switch. I really have been enjoying this one, just wanted to share.
252+ SpA Expert Belt Mr. Mime Psychic vs. 160 HP / 28 SpD Eviolite Machoke: 312-370 (91.4 - 108.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Expert Belt Mr. Mime Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Monferno: 362-427 (134.5 - 158.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Expert Belt Mr. Mime Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino: 228-269 (55.6 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Expert Belt Mr. Mime Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino: 454-535 (110.7 - 130.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Mr. Mime Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Grumpig: 160-190 (43.9 - 52.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Mr. Mime Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4+ SpD Grumpig: 201-237 (66.7 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Grumpig Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Filter Mr. Mime: 87-103 (39.3 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Machoke Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Filter Mr. Mime: 85-102 (38.4 - 46.1%) -- 16% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Cryogonal @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 40 Def / 216 SpA / 228 Spe
Timid Nature
- Recover
- Rapid Spin
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Ice Beam / Freeze-Dry
Speed beats out the Simis, you lose tie to other cryo/kadabra that carry HP fight but on the other hand you now likely live a Sucker from Pawniard. Something worth considering even though regular max speed obviously has its own benefits and it's still a decent chance for you to live sucker
252+ Atk Pawniard Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Cryogonal: 262-309 (93.2 - 109.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Pawniard Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 40 Def Cryogonal: 240-283 (85.4 - 100.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
My reason for proposing such a discussion is due to the following: the sub set can easily find set-up opportunities and break incoming switches, this set has very little true counters that fit easily onto teams, and the nature of this set strongly discourages balanced and slower styles of play.
Addressing my first point, Rotom-F has a surprisingly easy time setting up on and breaking balance and stall. It gets a near free switch into Stunfisk and unless you're running rock slide/tomb (the far inferior set to toxic) you're free setup fodder for a sub and your switch can can expect a burn or getting hit by one of its main STABs for at least neutral damage. To clarify on my comment on stunfisk running an inferior set, you give up on the ability to threaten fat grass mons like gourgeist and tangela just to cover yourself from being exploited by rotom.
Vullaby: Rotom can easily come in/switch in on vullaby and take advantage of the fact that vullaby is helpless in not being able to break an incoming sub
0 Atk Vullaby Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rotom-F: 51-60 (21.1 - 24.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
Note this calc is done with 0 IVs in attack for rotom, which all rotom's should be running.
Audino: Sub Rotom can easily stall this out of heal bells and audinos knock off doesn't break sub, so this mon, once believed to be an rotom counter, is not. The only way to counteract this is run stuff like encore in place of heal bell or hyper voice to go through sub, but regardless, you're forcing an otherwise fine mon to have to run a less effective set in terms of meta preparedness to handle sub rotom.
4 Atk Audino Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rotom-F: 44-52 (18.2 - 21.5%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
Outside of the above mons, Rotom has a very easy time subbing on slow grass mons and mons that would be crippled with a burn. These mons can break sub usually but suffer due to the fact that they must stay in and attack on rotom's sub in order to avoid being set up on. Now, you may be screaming, "BUT GRUMPIG!" Yeah, Grumpig is generally a solid switch into rotom, but it suffers a lot depending on the set and is easily whittled down after a couple switches. Mix a burn with tbolts and after a couple switches you find that this mon isn't as good a switch in as it looks on paper. Offensive sets get 3HKO'd by tbolt and spdef sets are forced to run heal bell to handle repeated switches and must heal bell have breaking sub and being burned or they face not being able to come in on rotom again. In the meantime, the rotom player can switch in a pursuit trapper/or strong physical attack and remove pig easily or gain momentum.
My next point is that rotom has very little true counters. Chinchou and Seaking are what we're looking at and neither fit particularly naturally on a team. Yes, both offer a special water/electric resist but when dealing with teams that aren't running rotom you're using less optimal mons that are quite passive and predictable. Chinchou offers some momentum with volt switch and seaking can knock off items but they both are quite underwhelming in a rotomless meta. Seaking also needs to be running facade if it wants to continue to break sub once burned and it only has passive recovery with leftovers or it sacrifices an item to run chesto resto. Either way, without rotom, I highly doubt these would have moved so far on viability as we have better and less passive water mons that fit easier on teams (see politoed).
Another parallel I'd like to draw is that of Exeggutor. This mon was very similar to Rotom in the fact that it had very few answers that fit naturally on teams, it forced mons in the tier to run alternative sets to accompany its existence (I've heard spdef monferno, spdef ninetales. Just weird stuff that we wouldn't be running in a rotomless meta), and it had a status inducing moves that could neuter otherwise fine switches. Exeggutor was way easier to revenge because of its slow speed stat and we had mons like Vullaby/Metang/Bouffalant that could at least fit naturally onto teams to handle it. Rotom does not have such widely available answers and I feel as though this is important to consider when looking at the general trend the PU metagame has taken to account for that (my next point).
I'd like to discuss how Rotom discourages slower and balanced playstyles. This point will have a bit of overlap with my first point, but I will avoid repetition for your convenience. So, after talking with a couple of our better PU players, the general take-away point was to always run a ground type that's not stunfisk (So, Golem/Camel), always run an ice resist (generally, only grumpig), and always run monferno. So here we have a formula in order to better handle one mon in PU. This formula is one that pushes towards an HO playstyle as running Seaking/Chinchou requires a ton of team support to get the same effect. None of the above straight out stop it and all can easily be exploited once a sub is up. The points of these suggestions are to get up rocks as soon as possible and to minimize rotom's ability to get behind a sub. I feel like we've gotten very used to over preparing for this one mon that we don't notice the loss of diverse teambuilding and the lack of viability of slower/balanced playstyles due to rotom's presence. Often times when building, I feel as though I'm forced to make a decision on better equipping myself to handle rotom (mons mentioned above) or better equipping myself to handle stuff like Jumpluff (with Vullaby) and Volt Switchers and physically offensive threats (with Stunfisk). The last thing I'd like to mention here is that Monferno still has a very hard time vs rotom. As you'll see in the calcs below, offensive sets don't take two tbolts and monferno does have to make plays while rotom is at full because if you predict an unsubbed rotom to switch and you CC, you risk the sub absorbing the CC and you getting a spdef drop and now you're vulnerable to a near OHKO by tbolt after some chip
252 SpA Rotom-F Thunderbolt vs. -1 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Monferno: 216-255 (80.2 - 94.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO]
I understand that there are offensive mons to handle Rotom through sub. Stuff like encore kadabra, jumpluff w/sleep powder, ninjask with infiltrator can handle it if predicted correctly. The problem with this logic is that all of these mons are either weak to SR, too frail to take one of Rotom's STABs, or in kadabras case, too risky to switch in without losing your sash. Another argument against a Rotom suspect is Blizzard's accuracy. I don't particularly agree with this logic because it is still hitting 70% of the time and you are forced to play as though it will hit every time if order to properly handle Rotom without having to rely on a 30% miss.
Lastly, I think it's important to mention some notable calcs and near 2HKos, as the mons are common switch-ins to handle rotom once subbed.
252 SpA Rotom-F Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Monferno: 144-169 (53.5 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Rotom-F Blizzard vs. 160 HP / 28 SpD Eviolite Machoke: 151-178 (44.2 - 52.1%) -- 16% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Rotom-F Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Grumpig: 117-138 (38.8 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Rotom-F Thunderbolt vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Probopass: 90-106 (29.6 - 34.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Rotom-F Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Cryogonal: 99-117 (35.2 - 41.6%) -- 69.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
I'd like to thank you for reading and considering my opinion and I hope this post encourages a healthy discussion on the future of our meta.
My reason for proposing such a discussion is due to the following: the sub set can easily find set-up opportunities and break incoming switches, this set has very little true counters that fit easily onto teams, and the nature of this set strongly discourages balanced and slower styles of play.
Addressing my first point, Rotom-F has a surprisingly easy time setting up on and breaking balance and stall. It gets a near free switch into Stunfisk and unless you're running rock slide/tomb (the far inferior set to toxic) you're free setup fodder for a sub and your switch can can expect a burn or getting hit by one of its main STABs for at least neutral damage. To clarify on my comment on stunfisk running an inferior set, you give up on the ability to threaten fat grass mons like gourgeist and tangela just to cover yourself from being exploited by rotom.
Vullaby: Rotom can easily come in/switch in on vullaby and take advantage of the fact that vullaby is helpless in not being able to break an incoming sub
0 Atk Vullaby Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rotom-F: 51-60 (21.1 - 24.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
Note this calc is done with 0 IVs in attack for rotom, which all rotom's should be running.
Audino: Sub Rotom can easily stall this out of heal bells and audinos knock off doesn't break sub, so this mon, once believed to be an rotom counter, is not. The only way to counteract this is run stuff like encore in place of heal bell or hyper voice to go through sub, but regardless, you're forcing an otherwise fine mon to have to run a less effective set in terms of meta preparedness to handle sub rotom.
252 SpA Rotom-F Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino: 123-145 (30 - 35.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
I'm a little busy atm so ill update this post in a couple hours but im just going to straight up disagree with the whole inferior sets you have mentioned Encore Audino and Stone Edge/Rock Tomb Stunfisk are fine options in this meta and and not at all inferior in anyway.
Encore Audino is not just to handle SubTom its literally just a handy move to lock anything into something such as set-up sweepers or locking something into a predicted move/protecting then encoring I'd argue to say Encore is the best filler slot even on Audino just for the overall utility it provides with practically no downfall at all.
As for Rock-Coverage on Stunfisk i would agree pre-shift it would be way inferior to Toxic but right now its actually a really nice filler slot for not only Rotom-F but also Cryogonal which many also use as an instant switch in mon since it can either fire off freeze-dry/Rapid Spin with little downfall however Stone Edge punishes this with a chance to OHKO and with Cryogonal being the general hazard remover taking this out is great for a rocker like stunfisk
8 Atk Stunfisk Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Cryogonal: 252-298 (89.6 - 196%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
8 Atk Stunfisk Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rotom-F: 98-116 (40.6 - 48.1%) guaranteed 3HKO
treating these as "free switch ins" to a possible Stone Edge is really risky especially for Rotom-F who can't even risk switching in again after rocks it honestly right now is no way inferior to Toxic as the 4th option
Also why is a mon on stall running any set but standard viewed as a bad thing? Stall is a playstyle that relies on defensive mons to check almost every threat in a particular meta and if you look at any other tier (idk too much about PU stall) you would see that multiple mons will run odd sets to beat out top tier threats to the playstyle. Not running standard just means that your team needed a particular threat covered and this was the best way of doing it. A good example of this would be in UU when crawdaunt first dropped many people ran itemless tangrowth to effectively check it but I wouldn't saw crawdaunt was unhealthy. Rotom is a massive threat to stall so running these sets doesn't necessarily make it unhealthy it just means that it has to be dealt with in more creative ways, which is how stall has to adapt to a lot of threats its how the playstyle survives and evolves in an offensively oriented meta.
