SPL 7: UU Discussion Thread

xMarth vs kokoloko - much as i like xmarth kokos prolly gonna take this one
teal6 vs Hikari - gonna be teals toughest match so far in spl, but i still think hell take it
ZoroDark vs Calloflochie - seen some solid stuff from zoro in what ive seen him play of UU so im confident he can take it
Hairy Toenail vs dodmen - tough first game for toenail, should be a good one
Christo. vs Hogg
 
Why don't I make some predicts too

xMarth vs kokoloko - gonna predict koko here just because he seems like the more consistent player overall. Of course anything can happen and xMarth seems like he's got kinda unlucky this SPL so a win on his part is far from impossible.

teal6 vs Hikari - matchup of the week, maybe year, possibly century. I want teal to win just to keep the hype train going with him but of course hikari is a huge threat to that streak. Expecting an amazing match here!

ZoroDark vs Calloflochie - ZoroDark hasn't been playing UU this SPL so I think lochie has the advantage. I wanna see what he can do but I think lochie is more in the swing of things.

Hairy Toenail vs dodmen - see above; I just think dodmen is more adjusted but I'm always gonna be kinda bias to Toenail because it's his SPL debut.

Christo. vs Hogg - unfortunately one of these guys has to walk away from this 1-2. I don't wanna predicted because honestly I'd want both of them to win.
 
From team matchup, looks like roughly even to me in the sense that there is nothing on either team that the other person can't respond to. That's the best you could hope for from preview, anyway. xMarth lets MAggron take a +2 CC (stayed in first turn, I would assume, knowing banded wouldn't kill obviously and he OHKOs back with Slam) after letting Heracross set up an SD and having nothing appropriate to switch in from there.

Poor lead matchup leads MAero to instantly become a huge problem, if I were in Koko's seat I would think it had perfect matchup thereout, the only thing I'd be worried about really would be a Stun Spore from Whimsicott or a too-healthy Slowking, both don't pose a huge problem to the rest of his team though (Whims far more than pretty much any Slowking variant).

I wasn't convinced after Kyurem took the flamethrower that it was Scarf (later proves to be), interesting choice that I don't like terribly much as a mon, Kyurem's wallbreaking potential with Specs is simply so incredible I hate seeing it neutered. But, at least, it gives him counterplay to MAero and Hydrei from thereout, I guess. The game sort of plays out from this point as could be expected for a while, Gyara can't break Milotic no matter the set, so going Slowking just to get burned was really xMarth's only option. In return, he gets a burn on Hydrei himself, later revealed to be "unwanted" I guess because he had Twave, though I'm not sure it mattered that much overall.

t13 and t14 are nice on both sides, there was pretty much no chance Koko would send out a dragon move that turn so Kyurem was fine to bring in there. xMarth's double to Whims is a cute play, able to eat anything Hydrei would throw out or, more immediately, be able to pressure the Milotic a bit, or gain momentum U-Turning. Koko, for his part, shows the benefit of having redundant checks to things and uses the opportunity to get rocks.

t 24 - 26 received a bit of chatter in the smogtours room. From what I could tell, the Reuni Recover on King's EP was conditioning so that it would look like he was gaging the health Reuni would be at the following turn, were he to kill King with Psychic. Marth falls for the bait and Sludge Waves on a switch to Cobalion, which has a 30% chance to get rid of King the following turns without dying, but itself isn't super necessary for the rest of the game. The smogtours chat suggested triple switching into Hydreigon on King's Earth Power from there, proving once again that it's pretty easy to call plays after they've already happened, and unfortunately only the actual players in the match don't have the gift of seeing the future.

Again, the game picks up playing just as you'd otherwise expect from this point. I wouldv'e misplayed if I were in Koko's shoes on t30 by going for CM, but it'd be hard to lose from there. Nothing else really too crazy happens from afterwards, crit / para nonsense on Reuni maybe could've had some sort of an issue, but Slowking was going to die before the rest of Koko's team regardless, I dunno. Don't really see a way for Marth to pull himself back into that match around mid-match time, but if anyone else does see it please elaborate.

Koko's team looks really well built to me, Flamethrower LO Hydreigon being a nice choice to dissuade the ever-present Whimsicott xMarth runs. Milotic proves again to be a solid meta-choice, I'll leave it at that for now I guess but it's a really cool mon.

xMarth's teams are always solid - I'll definitely say that, but it appears that koko was prepared for his archetype of build (MAggron, Whimsicott, grounded poison, bulky setup water) and had appropriate countermeasures. While, if this were any random battle, I'd think that there was an even matchup (as said above) the small details of the teams show the important of preparation again I guess.
 
yeah I basically built a complete c-style to Marths typical stuff. he's shown very little repetition aside from whims and cobalion in the first 6 weeks so the only real lure on my team was flamethrower hydreigon which ohkoes both 0/0 cobalion and 252 hp whims. however the most prominent trend in his team building was that he wasn't ever too solid against reuniclus and he never ran much to take advantage of it. the most dangerous thing he typically runs is like krook but there wasn't a single sableye or crawdaunt from him the entire season thus far. so that's where I started building.

I wouldn't say the team was too solid at all tbh. no hazard control and pretty slow in general aside from aero. NP infernape was a huge issue and so were a couple other things, including passive hazard stacking, but none of them were things Marth typically uses. it was definitely a really cool fucking team though, I've been wanting to use SD lefties heracross for a while.

this game is a pretty good example of why preparation and keeping your own style unpredictable are so important during SPL. shits hard as hell to do, especially the latter, just look at my own record: two bad balance teams, one of which was just a straight up c-style, and 5 c-style bulky offense with a ton of entei, whims, nidoqueen, and hydreigon. only two people I didn't straight up c-style were Hogg (because I had too little data on him) and Christo because I didn't have enough time so I just recycled a team and put LUM GYARA over zam.

anyway reuni and milo performed exactly as expected and SD Hera almost prevented rocks but I think the cc was a low roll unless he was running like 176 or more defense. but yeah he just straight up didn't have much for reuni. all I needed to do was make sure it wasn't cm or d-tail slowking and kill the whims and the game was mine.

'twas really well played on his end though but the matchup was pretty skewed in my favor.
 
Ironically I built my team to counter-style koko's most common offensive build around entei, hydre, whims etc. In teambuilding I didn't put a lot of priority on reuniclus because of koko's spl usage as well as reun falling out of favor with sableye running around. Team preparation, as said in the posts above, is extremely important and in this case koko was better prepared.

The scald burn on hydreigon wasn't exactly 'unwanted' but the reason that slowking had twave was to lure in things like hydreigon/whimsicott/alakazam, not to parahax.

I had been debating between scarf/specs kyurem up until 20 mins before the match. Ended up going for scarf because I wanted a better match up against offensive builds and something to revenge kill zam w/o running something like sucker punch nido.
 
another sceptile win on SPL
ngl were uu sleeping on scep all this time?

3 | Sceptile | 3 | 30.00% | 66.67%

solid 30% presence in SPL teams with more than solid 2/3 win rate
 
yeah, scep is really nice and is getting the love it deserves this spl even w/ aero being better than it ever was before, with zam around and doublade's usage decreasing considerably

with that said, i'm kinda happy with the way toenail vs dod played out (except for the fact it was a loss for my team, but at least it was to a friend and solid player). an above average spl debut for toenail too, considering spl debuts are usually shaky as fuck. the team tour pressure is real

as for the game itself there's not much to say imo; the teams were both nice, especially ht's throwback to grand slam 3's tailwind teams and water spout blastoise (really happy we managed to get that 1 together btw). there's a late game scenario in which toenail could've won that i'm gonna explain briefly (hmu if you want me to make it needlessly pretty a la spoofy style, otherwise i'll make it do with shitty formatting):

turn 14 - ht uses dark pulse and dodmen bounces. straightforward plays

how it plays out from here in the replay: toenail goes into tornadus and dies to get tailwind up. however, the remaining tailwind turns aren't enough for blastoise to close the game and sceptile takes the win home

how it would've played out if played optimally: toenail goes into krook on the 2nd bounce turn and finishes gyarados off with knock off (which is objectively dod's best sac at that point) unless dod got the paralysis with bounce and, even if he did, toenail still has a very small chance of hitting through a sub + paraflinch attempt (bounce at -1 was gonna do 24% to 29%. waterfall was 46% - 55% for reference. krook was gonna be at around 87% after sr damage). after that, dod is forced to go into his sceptile. assuming dod was running a good nature on scep, dragon pulse would never score the ko on tornadus after rocks (60.2 - 71.2%), which allowed ht to get tailwind up and win with either blastoise or krook. if dod went to doublade after hitting torn with dragon pulse, toenail could just hit it with knock off, die to lo recoil and win with either of his remaining mons. if dod leaf stormed, giga drained or god a low dpulse roll the turn torn came in then it would get a little trickier with a fair amount of ways it could've played but that's enough theorymoning for now, gg friends

tl;dr going krook > torn was always better but it still wasn't a guaranteed win for toenail

REALLY IMPORTANT EDIT: HURRICANE HITS SHIT MID BOUNCE LOL (hitting gyara w/ that on the turn he was charging bounce still wouldn't be a guaranteed win but it'd be an ok play and smogtours chat would go fucking insane if it happened)

teal vs hikari hype
 
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Dugtrio didn't get to do anything against Christo, but it's definitely a cool partner for RoarCune since it can trap Scald absorbers like Heliolisk and Christo's infamous Knock Off Toxicroak. I wouldn't be surprised if Hogg's Duggy was running Sludge Wave to eliminate Whimsicott or even Aerial Ace to get rid of a potential Virizion.
 
I was running Aerial Ace. Whimsicott was annoying but in testing I found the team was pretty good at wearing it down, especially with T-Spikes, so I could usually get it into AA range. Guts Hera, on the other hand, was really threatening for the team, so being able to trap that was pretty important to me.
 
zorodark you can't use passive mons like zong on my offense :/

dunno if he legit took one of my teams and added zong + croak or if he actually built that himself but I lol'd when I saw it. thought I was playing and shit.
 
Which team of yours are you referring to koko? I did build this team myself some time ago, but didn't plan on using it. In the end I was forced to use this since my more creative builds ended up not being solid enough. I don't know how you guys feel about it, but I had a terrible time trying to come up with something original while also accounting for Entei, Mamoswine and Alakazam. Btw I was Hypnosis Zong so it's not quite as passive :o

The match itself was neither long nor very entertaining so I'll just give my quick take on it. Ice Tea outplayed me turn 1, even though I'm personally not a fan of potentially saccing your win con turn 1 when you already have a fantastic matchup, but it worked so I guess I can't complain. After that he just didn't have to choke, especially when crits and lack of Sacred Fire burns took away every last bit of counterplay I still had. Props to him for coming up with his nice team and his first SPL win though!
 
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