NOC C9++ Game Thread

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x_x why are you pressure voting at this stage of the game??? what are your opinions on dursa's doc claim?

this goes to both you and the other person who was also talking about how obvious pressure votes still serve a purpose- no they don't. the person you're voting for knows you don't actually think they're scummy so the +1 vote doesn't actually create very much worry or urgency, especially on D1 when lynch thresholds are at their highest.

also to kirsche- I've never actually seen a ps mafia game but I would imagine stuff would happen super fast like in an epicmafia or irl mafia game? also, scum panic too, but panicked scum would ask for advice before fakeclaiming doctor I think. I see that you still have durza as the scummiest person- did the doc claim have no effect on that or did it make durza scummier in your mind?
 
half of earlio's reads are based on a game I didn't play in so I don't really know how to analyze them. generally not a good idea to base meta off one game of evidence though...

some of the non-meta stuff feels kind of made up though. why would scum post more than town? why wouldn't mafia tunnel?
 
Mafia tunneling (read: multiple people) is pretty obvious to pick up while I never said scum would post more than town, I said scum would at least try to act a bit more involved than Jalmont to not look like they're trying to stay quiet.

I've said earlier that Durza's doc claim is stupid as it's a really hard to prove role, but my champ vote isn't all pressure as Champ's done jack squat so far and if they don't post reads soon they'll start looking scummier (seeing as all they've posted is strategy posts).
 
Sorry, just woke up. I'm still not really sure why I'm being read as scum (something about not posting for a while because sleep) but here's some more reads anyhow:
Haruno: Very quiet, and from what I've seen of town haruno in the past they've been more vocal than this. Decent SR
Zorbees: Is acting just like town Zorbees from the last NOC, so I'm going with town for now.
Champ: I hunger for reads
BBM: Posts are good, seems to be invested in helping town so TR on him
Asek: Haven't seen scum Asek but is acting pretty much the same as town Asek from last game
Twin: Aggressive townie, mafia would never (i think) tunnel on a random person D1
Kirsche: Haven't really seen anything blatantly scummy from him, seems like a decent TR (given I have no idea how he plays)
Durza: Probably Scum seeing as he hasn't responded as more so attacked Twin back
Fenrir: Posts have been getting better and seems less scummy then before. I also think the Fenrir+Durza team is pretty debunked at this point.
Jalmont: No clue honestly, but I think a scum would at least try to post a little more

For now Lynch Champ
"I want to know their reads so I will lynch them lol"
 
Your only posts for the last few pages have consisted of VT and PR claim strategy. You have yet to post any reads of the sort despite being asked a while ago and you still have yet to deliver.

And for the meaningful posts from me, I've at least posted a number of reads instead of posting ultra-safe content about how the town should go about claiming.
 
What do people think bout this wrt durza

durza hard claims cop. given flips of mafia and potential sk to come, as well as our own power roles should we face the misfortune to have one be killed, we should have durza self resolve within the next few cycles. If he is indeed what he claims he is, mafia has a great deal of reason to kill him, or if they decide to wifom not kill him to try get him lynched, run the risk of him sitting on someone and blocking the kill and proving himself that way.

I think he self resolves within 3~ cycles at the most

yes this is me advocating that a durza lynch might not be the best idea for today. its probably the best one we have so far but thats why we need to make some wagons n shit

once again

lynch earlio

@champ1604 i was promised reads today. please deliver
Yeah yeah.

Firstly, I tried my best to actually get some posts which would help. Seriously, creating 19 pages in a single day. Much appreciated.
06Q7wstcQS68ny4a1SzmRQ.png

And, before lemme say this:
I'm a newbie, and I honestly haven't played games applying player-meta, because the place where I used to play mafia before PS! were literally goddamn mysterious and were different every game. No kidding.
I will write P-M instead of all that, if I feel like mentioning that is important.

And I never considered a read neutral.

Haruno :
vote bigbangmeteor
Started with a RVS. Acceptable.
no fucking clue man. I assume fenrir playing with ps standards means asking for PR isn't that bad considering some dumbfuck scums on ps CLAIMED COP IN A GAME WITH NO PR and somehow led town to ruin because town didn't know any better. And ps mafia is literally just be the first person to claim cop and start randlynching.

also DurzaOffTopic u might be the best user yet with your analysis of twin. That is very similar to how I view twin. Good job mate. Doesn't make u not scum tho xd
P-M
when the fuck did i say durza was scummy?????

i still feel ur more likely scum than durza.
+1
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/c9-game-thread.3607528/page-9#post-7405280

besides durza which I expected, I didn't expect earlio to have picked up so much if the vote count didn't happen so that was odd. Durza having so many votes at the time was unnatural af since it came from a presumably randvote from acid being the first vote which spiraled from an OMGUS from durza to stressing his player meta to the current situation beforeit deescalated and we're at our current situation.

tl;dr earlio + durza abit.
P-M

Overall - Slight Town

zorbees :

I think BBM and kirsche have summed up a lot of what I think about Fenrir, however, I will vote Earlio instead in the meantime. Last game, it was really obvious (in hindsight) that he was recruited, and obvious to me that he was town d1, so I'm putting pressure on someone who I think will be easy to read provided he posts more.

I think twin is town and Durza is more likely to be scum, but idk about Durza. I feel like, if he is being honest about why he asked Fenrir to claim, it is more likely that scum is thinking about what number majority is than town, so he may have honestly not realized. I do think a Durza/Fenrir team seems like it could make some sense.

Asek is acting similarly to last game when he was town, thats my only experience with him though.

Null reads on mostly everyone else.
How is putting pressure even related to them being recruited in the past game?

BigBangMeteor My possibility of a Durza/Fenrir scumteam wasn't a strong read, I just think its possible. I have scumreads on both of them for separate reasons. I feel like the whole Durza/Twin argument could have been a ploy by Durza to distract people from the Fenrir wagon that was happening, but who knows. I do think that the longer Durza calls Fenrir scummy, the less likely he is to be bussing a teammate, so Durza very well could just be town. However, the fact that he eases off of Fenrir as soon as the Durza/Fenrir scumteam is brought up is a bit odd. Could just be a coincidence though.

I don't think the asking Fenrir to claim is alignment indicative, if Durza really did think it was L-1 then it makes sense. As I said before, I feel like its more likely for scum to know what majority is, so if anything, its slightly towny of him, but I don't think it makes up for the rest of his bad play. I more scumread Durza based off of his reactions after the fact. I don't get why he thinks going between lynches is a bad thing when the whole early part of the game is called Random Voting Stage.

DurzaOffTopic I think I can clarify a couple of Twin's questions:



This is a response to when you said "yes please" to twin's "1 more vote on fenrir" when you thought it was L-1. Twin is asking why are you so sure Fenrir is scum a few hours into the game. This is followed up by his "do you think or do you know he is scum", implying you would know he is scum if you are on his team.

I really don't like Durza's list of reads either, he said BBM needed to talk more when he was one of the more active players last night, says Earlio is insightful, and and isn't really committing to any reads. Just seems overly forced.
unvote, vote thetwinmasters

you seem super paranoid with 0 votes on you which is a bit weird
This seems more or less weird, first practically supporting twinmasters, then voting them, weird tbh. But weird, in a town way.

nah i dont need to answer that :P
I'm TR'ing you I don't need anything more.

I remember reading more good posts of them, but I can't find them in the 17 tabs again.

Overall: Slight Town.

Earlio :
Vote Fenrir

That's how offended I am by you talking in third person
Cliche start, RVS.

I'll post more fresh memewhen everyone else starts posting (hint hint)

My best bet for Scum is currently Durza, because even though I am leaning towards town for them I could also see them being scum (especially considering they're viewing rn and hasn't said anything). Nobody is particularly jumping out as scum for me as only a handful of people have posted enough posts for me to confidently read (i.e. The people I have read) and none of them are looking too scummy. As this day phase goes on I'll definitely be updating my reads.

And anyhow the bulk of those 8 pages is just Twin going ballistic on Durza
Yeah I don't think any scum would react so violently
Lynch Fenrir
Still personally looks like scum trying hard to look like involved town
Why lynch Fenrir even after this?
Not really seeing any big revelations as of now, but Durza's gone pretty quiet and Twin Sea to have cooled off slightly on him. I'd still like to see a few people (Jalmont, Champ, etc) speak up cuz nobody is really coming off as very scummy.

From what I've seems of Zorbees this is basically what he did vamps day 1 (when he was town) so I'm leaning towards town for him.
P-M AND Earlio learn to quote the posts you're replying to ty
I'm watching Durza here and he's really just throwing shade at Twin while simultaneously claiming a really hard to prove role so
Lynch Durza

And sorry for the general lack of posts (still probably on the upper half) I've had a pretty crammed day (exchange student+end of a vacation) so I'll pick up my posts tomorrow
What you're doing rn is not very much different.
Sorry, just woke up. I'm still not really sure why I'm being read as scum (something about not posting for a while because sleep) but here's some more reads anyhow:
Haruno: Very quiet, and from what I've seen of town haruno in the past they've been more vocal than this. Decent SR
Zorbees: Is acting just like town Zorbees from the last NOC, so I'm going with town for now.
Champ: I hunger for reads
BBM: Posts are good, seems to be invested in helping town so TR on him
Asek: Haven't seen scum Asek but is acting pretty much the same as town Asek from last game
Twin: Aggressive townie, mafia would never (i think) tunnel on a random person D1
Kirsche: Haven't really seen anything blatantly scummy from him, seems like a decent TR (given I have no idea how he plays)
Durza: Probably Scum seeing as he hasn't responded as more so attacked Twin back
Fenrir: Posts have been getting better and seems less scummy then before. I also think the Fenrir+Durza team is pretty debunked at this point.
Jalmont: No clue honestly, but I think a scum would at least try to post a little more

For now Lynch Champ
'For now Lynch Champ'
Read says: "I'm hungry for reads"
No comments on this.

Overall: Slightly Scummy

Jalmont :
I don't understand anything you just said, not sure if it's because you misused PR vs. VT or if I'm missing something in your logic. You seem to be saying that claiming a PR is easier than claiming a VT so PRs will claim VT? I don't understand what your conclusion is here. I still don't understand the point in doing so.

Do you always claim VT early in the game regardless of your role?

Regardless I guess this area of discussions is pretty off track so there's no point in pursuing it so I guess I'll drop it from here on out.
This is the only quality Jalmont post I've seen in this game. And honestly, I've seen them viewing the thread multiple times. So,

Overall: Slightly Scummy

BigBangMeteor :

you guys need to chill lol

Firstly Fenrir- I voted you with my question to get more of a reaction to it. I really don't like your response because there weren't even any votes on you when I voted you so I'm not sure how my vote was opportunistic. It kind of feels like you were just making stuff up to jump on my wagon (which had like 3 RVS votes on it) because you distinguished between my vote and Durza's by saying I didn't have an explicit read in the post, which is dumb because it was RVS. The entire thing was just super defensive. Also the thing about me not waiting for your response also feels like a reason to just park your vote on me. It's been like an hour.

Vote stays here, more coming on other stuff
I don't know if they started with RVS or not.. probably they did.. and I liked this post tbh.

unvote, vote earlio

fenrir might still be scum but he actually has significantly less forum mafia experience than I assumed so on second thought I'm going to cut him some slack for a while. some of his reactions/reasons about timing make more sense given that 99% of his mafia experience has been irl/chatroom. initial reason for voting me is still bad though.

I normally reserve the term "reaction test" for some kind of heavily thought out plan. I would refer to what I did as just regular RVS behaviour, which is doing things to increase the likelihood of someone having an abnormal reaction
Towny Post
durza- there's no reason to listpost reads on everyone if you don't have a read on most of those people; reads like content for the sake of it. then the few people there are reads about don't make a lot of sense- earlio has probably the shallowest reads in the game, and asek and twin have a pretty similar playstyle with the only difference being that twin posts more and is more abrasive. one is leaning town and the other is their strongest scumread. why is asek a townread?

I don't see a problem with frequently asking questions as long as you're asking them for a reason and do things with the answers. for me, wrt acidphoenix I'm more concerned about the second part, and their posts today, as opposed to their posts yesterday, which actually did have opinions. the ones today are just defending against what jalmont said and not actually contributing more.
Liked how they ask questions but.. what's your wrong if someone considers a TR for themselves to believe in? Also, about asek and twin, agreed.

But one thing disappointed me about them. They most of them just post reads and counter/attack people's points, which is more or less, a scum way to play. I would prefer if they start producing their own topics for discussion.

Overall: Moderately Town

Asek :

I won't quote any lots of quotes. Simply down to reasoning.

earlios been my strongest scum ping so far this game

vote earlio
No reason

Their D1 was a RVS

Well again, their way of playing is what I stated as BBM's, literally getting all info from others.

Overall: Slightly Town

DurzaOffTopic :
Firstly, thanks for making your TR. But,

Has been pushing too hard to defend themselves.

Constantly fighting with someone over the lynch.

Posting a lot.. with not every one having a significant value of its own

That's it for now, if I'm missing someone, remind me later. I need some sleep badly.
 
also to kirsche- I've never actually seen a ps mafia game but I would imagine stuff would happen super fast like in an epicmafia or irl mafia game? also, scum panic too, but panicked scum would ask for advice before fakeclaiming doctor I think. I see that you still have durza as the scummiest person- did the doc claim have no effect on that or did it make durza scummier in your mind?

If they're about to be dayvigged and their friends aren't around they would claim instantly, and what better to claim than doc? Besides, the maf might have already discussed the advantages/disadvantages of claiming doc in a tight situation. You're clearing his claim over speculation on games you haven't even participated/watched lmao this defence is dumb af surely you're better than that. The claim is null and irrelevant imo but his content is still atrocious and low effort.

Good Haruno case though is a saving grace I suppose.

Definitely not a snarky tl;dr of Champ's reads+explanations for them:

-Haruno is slightly townie for making an acceptable RVS vote.
-Zorbees is slightly townie because of some mystery posts that definitely exist I promise
-Earlio is slightly scummy for making an RVS vote which isn't acceptable and voting me for reasons I dislike.
-Jalmont is lurking but made a good post so is slightly scummy.
-BBM is quite townie except he plays like a scumlord (???????????????)
-Asek is slightly townie because all he's done is RVS (???) and plays like BBM who acts like a scumlord.
-No conclusion on Durza the main wagon.

The only one I think is a misrep there might be Earlio's because there's other stuff that could be scummy I guess (the Fenrir and Durza vote reasoning I suppose). He also didn't vote anyone.

unlynch Durza
lynch champ1604


Champ can you expand/explain some of these points more? Can you find Zorbees' posts (I believe there's a search function that lets you look at his posts individually) that you like because he is very unmemorable imo. Who would you like to lynch today? What do you think of BBM's case on Haruno?
 
I can't believe kirsche beat me to a definitely not snarky recap of champ's post. I don't really have much to add to what he and twin said, other than what's the point of pointing out every time someone uses player meta if you're not going to say anything about it? also, the posts feel very cherry-picked, eg choosing one of the less insightful jalmont posts and calling it the only quality one???

champ's post did make me realize that haruno did expand on the durza wagon in #319, but the post is more about how the wagon built up so fast rather than actually trying to find out whether anyone's vote is scummy.

the wifom reasoning for jalmont not posting a lot being townie is pretty bad from earlio, especially because being quiet is used as a reason for haruno being scummy. I get that the haruno thing has meta behind it but nonetheless that's an example of quiet posting being scummy so why is it townie for jalmont? I repeat, feels like earlio tried a reads post and was making things up to fill more of it out, so a bunch of the reasoning is at odds with other parts of the post.

kirsche- where did durza make a haruno case?
 
I can't believe kirsche beat me to a definitely not snarky recap of champ's post. I don't really have much to add to what he and twin said, other than what's the point of pointing out every time someone uses player meta if you're not going to say anything about it? also, the posts feel very cherry-picked, eg choosing one of the less insightful jalmont posts and calling it the only quality one???

champ's post did make me realize that haruno did expand on the durza wagon in #319, but the post is more about how the wagon built up so fast rather than actually trying to find out whether anyone's vote is scummy.

the wifom reasoning for jalmont not posting a lot being townie is pretty bad from earlio, especially because being quiet is used as a reason for haruno being scummy. I get that the haruno thing has meta behind it but nonetheless that's an example of quiet posting being scummy so why is it townie for jalmont? I repeat, feels like earlio tried a reads post and was making things up to fill more of it out, so a bunch of the reasoning is at odds with other parts of the post.

kirsche- where did durza make a haruno case?
My Jalmont to Haruno inconsistency. mostly stems from the fact that I've seen Haruno play as town before, where they were much more vocal than this, whereas I haven't seen Jalmont play in NOC and his general nonchalance and posts point more towards uninvested town.
 
champ's reads seem really forced and dont make a lot of sense, for example, how does haruno get townie points for placing a vote during RVS, literally anyone could do that. He also brings up my vote on twin and ignores the part where I explained why I did it.

I thought earlio looked decent during his interactions with champ, but it might be because his team told him how to respond, with more and more earlio scumreads coming in.

BBM looking very townie to me, kirsche also looking fairly townie
 
What do people think bout this wrt durza

durza hard claims cop. given flips of mafia and potential sk to come, as well as our own power roles should we face the misfortune to have one be killed, we should have durza self resolve within the next few cycles. If he is indeed what he claims he is, mafia has a great deal of reason to kill him, or if they decide to wifom not kill him to try get him lynched, run the risk of him sitting on someone and blocking the kill and proving himself that way.

I think he self resolves within 3~ cycles at the most

yes this is me advocating that a durza lynch might not be the best idea for today. its probably the best one we have so far but thats why we need to make some wagons n shit

once again

lynch earlio

@champ1604 i was promised reads today. please deliver
This post is insanely scummy reading back because you are ignoring all of Durza's behavior and Asek is just advocating for us to give durza a free pass when he should absolutely be pressured. Also durza is a doc who can't even self resolve himself so wtf are you talking about.
 
I don't recall liking Champ's posts too much but the amount of attention they're getting is a bit weird
I'd lynch Durza more to check whether Haruno/Asek are his teammate and because he's had a hard time working smoothly with town so far, not really because I think he's scum. His claim is sketchy either way but I'd hate to lynch a doctor like that and his omgus at Twin did seem genuine

Can't really comment on more atm, need to read everything first
 
- where did durza make a haruno case?

I was referring to your Haruno case.

Durza before you get wrapped up with arguing with Twin again and avoid scumhunting for the third time, can you please read back and look at the criticisms of your content. The responses to your reads post and what you think of the last few pages would be good. E.g. what do you think of Champ? If you have a gut scum read on BBM what do you make of his Haruno case?
 
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