Latias, and also seconding Notily's question
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
UU Community Create-a-Team - Team #5 | Hiatus
- Thread starter HotFuzzBall
- Start date
Latias for the flexibility and Sparrow's compelling argument!
Gonna have to go latias
Alright I'm ending voting early since all the votes so far are in favor of Latias, and I doubt that there will be enough votes in the next hour to top it. Also do note that the sets aren't set in stone until the discussion portion (occurring after Round 6).
As for Conkeldurr, for now keep this mon in mind just to be on the safe side on the off chance it stays (doubt it since a lot of people are in favor of a ban).
Latias @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Trick / Grass Knot / Hidden Power Fire
- Healing Wish
Anyways, Round 3 will take place. Deadline 7/21 @ 11:59 PM PST
As for Conkeldurr, for now keep this mon in mind just to be on the safe side on the off chance it stays (doubt it since a lot of people are in favor of a ban).
Latias @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Trick / Grass Knot / Hidden Power Fire
- Healing Wish
Anyways, Round 3 will take place. Deadline 7/21 @ 11:59 PM PST
Steelix @ Steelixite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
Latias @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Trick / Grass Knot / Hidden Power Fire
- Healing Wish
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
Latias @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Trick / Grass Knot / Hidden Power Fire
- Healing Wish
Primarina @ Choice Specs
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Moonblast
- Sparkling Aria
- Psychic
So the first thing that came to my mind when looking at what we have so far is how problematic Mega-Blastoise would be, along with Hydreigon to a lesser extent since Lati gives it a free switch in after locking itself into anything other then Draco and Steelix has to worry about Fire Blast.
Primarina help deal with those two while also checking bulky ground types like Hippo and Gliscor. It also works decently well with the team role wise to as it benefits greatly from rocks or from getting a second chance to destroy stuff via Healing Wish, while also softening things up for Lati to potentially clean up or revenge kill later.
The moveset is nothing special, MoonBlast and Hydro both really hurt, Sparkling Aria is for dealing with mons hiding behind a sub or Aurora Veil (sound moves do bypass screens right?) as well as being a more reliably hitting water STAB, and Psychic can catch Tenta on the switch in.
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Moonblast
- Sparkling Aria
- Psychic
So the first thing that came to my mind when looking at what we have so far is how problematic Mega-Blastoise would be, along with Hydreigon to a lesser extent since Lati gives it a free switch in after locking itself into anything other then Draco and Steelix has to worry about Fire Blast.
Primarina help deal with those two while also checking bulky ground types like Hippo and Gliscor. It also works decently well with the team role wise to as it benefits greatly from rocks or from getting a second chance to destroy stuff via Healing Wish, while also softening things up for Lati to potentially clean up or revenge kill later.
The moveset is nothing special, MoonBlast and Hydro both really hurt, Sparkling Aria is for dealing with mons hiding behind a sub or Aurora Veil (sound moves do bypass screens right?) as well as being a more reliably hitting water STAB, and Psychic can catch Tenta on the switch in.
Actually I don't believe sound based moves bypass screens. But it can still be good for helping versus Hawlucha.
pxie dixie (Sylveon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
It's kind of hard to go wrong with Steel/Dragon/Fairy.
If you want balance/stall/semistall go with Sylveon, if you want bulky offense go with Primarina.
Ultimately Sylveon should make teambuilding easier because you it gives you some extra utility and bulk, although Primarina is better versus a select few offensive threats like Blastoise and of course has a lot more power making the team more dangerous.
Last edited:
Got the wrong deadline stuck in my head so, apologies for the tardiness. Anyways for the 3rd slot we have...
CodeRed23 - Choice Specs Primarina
pokeisfun - Cleric Sylveon
As for my vote, I'll be going for Primarina just because Primarina + Latias is one of my all time favorite cores, while Mega Steelix helps round out the infamous Steel/Dragon/Fairy core. Sylveon will also probably work just as well as Primarina since a Fairy-type is the best way to go this round, so I'll probably just be sticking with my gut. This round will really steer the team into an archetype since Primarina would probably make the team more bulky offense meets more offensive balance (is that even a thing?) while Sylveon would drive the team into more of a balance meets semi-stall kinda ordeal.
Anyways, Deadline for voting will end on 7/23 @ 11:59 PM, though if a super-majority is reached, I'll most likely end it tonight.
CodeRed23 - Choice Specs Primarina
Primarina @ Choice Specs
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Moonblast
- Sparkling Aria
- Psychic
So the first thing that came to my mind when looking at what we have so far is how problematic Mega-Blastoise would be, along with Hydreigon to a lesser extent since Lati gives it a free switch in after locking itself into anything other then Draco and Steelix has to worry about Fire Blast.
Primarina help deal with those two while also checking bulky ground types like Hippo and Gliscor. It also works decently well with the team role wise to as it benefits greatly from rocks or from getting a second chance to destroy stuff via Healing Wish, while also softening things up for Lati to potentially clean up or revenge kill later.
The moveset is nothing special, MoonBlast and Hydro both really hurt, Sparkling Aria is for dealing with mons hiding behind a sub or Aurora Veil (sound moves do bypass screens right?) as well as being a more reliably hitting water STAB, and Psychic can catch Tenta on the switch in.
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Moonblast
- Sparkling Aria
- Psychic
So the first thing that came to my mind when looking at what we have so far is how problematic Mega-Blastoise would be, along with Hydreigon to a lesser extent since Lati gives it a free switch in after locking itself into anything other then Draco and Steelix has to worry about Fire Blast.
Primarina help deal with those two while also checking bulky ground types like Hippo and Gliscor. It also works decently well with the team role wise to as it benefits greatly from rocks or from getting a second chance to destroy stuff via Healing Wish, while also softening things up for Lati to potentially clean up or revenge kill later.
The moveset is nothing special, MoonBlast and Hydro both really hurt, Sparkling Aria is for dealing with mons hiding behind a sub or Aurora Veil (sound moves do bypass screens right?) as well as being a more reliably hitting water STAB, and Psychic can catch Tenta on the switch in.
pxie dixie (Sylveon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
It's kind of hard to go wrong with Steel/Dragon/Fairy.
If you want balance/stall/semistall go with Sylveon, if you want bulky offense go with Primarina.
Ultimately Sylveon should make teambuilding easier because you it gives you some extra utility and bulk, although Primarina is better versus a select few offensive threats like Blastoise and of course has a lot more power making the team more dangerous.
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
It's kind of hard to go wrong with Steel/Dragon/Fairy.
If you want balance/stall/semistall go with Sylveon, if you want bulky offense go with Primarina.
Ultimately Sylveon should make teambuilding easier because you it gives you some extra utility and bulk, although Primarina is better versus a select few offensive threats like Blastoise and of course has a lot more power making the team more dangerous.
Anyways, Deadline for voting will end on 7/23 @ 11:59 PM, though if a super-majority is reached, I'll most likely end it tonight.
Steelix @ Steelixite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
Latias @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Trick / Grass Knot / Hidden Power Fire
- Healing Wish
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
Latias @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Trick / Grass Knot / Hidden Power Fire
- Healing Wish
I'm puting my vote in for Sylveon. Since Mega Steelix lacks recovery, Sylveon is a great partner that can just help bring back up to full so it can stay checking big threats throughout the game. Not gonna lie, Mega Steelix and Latias are fantastic offensive pivots due to their great bulk/typing (ability for Latias) that makes them great for coming in on hits that Sylveon can't handle while getting a wish to sustain momentum.
Primarina is obviously great but, it's like we already have Mega Lix and Latias as great offensive pivots (both physical and special to boot). I mean it would be funny to have a team filled with offensive pivots XD
Primarina is obviously great but, it's like we already have Mega Lix and Latias as great offensive pivots (both physical and special to boot). I mean it would be funny to have a team filled with offensive pivots XD
I've actually been messing around with the Mega-Lix, Lati, and Prima core a little bit and noticed a few things;
1. Hazard stacking is pretty fun and Prima does a good job of threatening some of the more common defoggers/spinners.
2. Scarf Lati is kinda hit and miss imo, like sometimes it's really useful and scoring a surprise KO on your opponents lead Hydre or Nape is great, but Lati's STABS aren't exactly things you want to get locked into, especially Psychic with all the Dark types running around.
3. Hazard removal is a bit difficult since most of the defoggers/spinners don't offer much for the team defensively or offensively, although I probably overlooked something obvious.
It was decently fun and I'll probably tweak the team more to my liking in my free time.
But as pif and tmac pointed out, cleric Sylveon just suits the team better and will open up the possibility of a proper bulky water type to be added without having to worry about stacking weaknesses with Prima.
My vote goes to Sylveon.
1. Hazard stacking is pretty fun and Prima does a good job of threatening some of the more common defoggers/spinners.
2. Scarf Lati is kinda hit and miss imo, like sometimes it's really useful and scoring a surprise KO on your opponents lead Hydre or Nape is great, but Lati's STABS aren't exactly things you want to get locked into, especially Psychic with all the Dark types running around.
3. Hazard removal is a bit difficult since most of the defoggers/spinners don't offer much for the team defensively or offensively, although I probably overlooked something obvious.
It was decently fun and I'll probably tweak the team more to my liking in my free time.
But as pif and tmac pointed out, cleric Sylveon just suits the team better and will open up the possibility of a proper bulky water type to be added without having to worry about stacking weaknesses with Prima.
My vote goes to Sylveon.
I think I'll return the favor and vote for Primarina, with the idea of still going to balance (I definitely overgeneralized when I said Sylveon=balance/semistall and Primarina=Bulky Offense).
If we pick specs Primarina, it might be hard to go balance with such a physically frail water and fairy type (although stacking waters isn't inherently a bad idea). So I'm thinking of potentially changing the set later to some defensive Rest Talk set which I saw used in a tournament game yesterday to reasonably high success. Also it donked one of my bulky offense teams a few days ago on the ladder because even without Specs or special attack it's hard to switch into and bulky offense staples can't really switch in (Gliscor, Conkeldurr, Latias, Hydreigon, etc.) I imagine it's good for HO for the same reasons.
Specs Primarina will work too, it will just have pretty obvious differences (more power and slightly more speed in exchange for a lot of bulk) that likely commit us to bulky offense or an offensive balance (very similar archetypes).
If we pick specs Primarina, it might be hard to go balance with such a physically frail water and fairy type (although stacking waters isn't inherently a bad idea). So I'm thinking of potentially changing the set later to some defensive Rest Talk set which I saw used in a tournament game yesterday to reasonably high success. Also it donked one of my bulky offense teams a few days ago on the ladder because even without Specs or special attack it's hard to switch into and bulky offense staples can't really switch in (Gliscor, Conkeldurr, Latias, Hydreigon, etc.) I imagine it's good for HO for the same reasons.
Specs Primarina will work too, it will just have pretty obvious differences (more power and slightly more speed in exchange for a lot of bulk) that likely commit us to bulky offense or an offensive balance (very similar archetypes).
alright, I was planning to extend the deadline for another day but forgot to mention it lol... Anyways, Sylveon takes the 3rd slot for the team. Remember to keep Conkeldurr in mind as we continue to build this team just to be on the safe side.
Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
Submissions for Round 4 will now take place and the deadline will be 7/27 @ 11:59 PM PST (GMT-8). Now that Sylveon has been voted for, I find Healing Wish a bit redundant on Latias considering Sylveon performs a similar role since it is a cleric after all, thoughts?
Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
Steelix @ Steelixite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
Latias @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Trick / Grass Knot / Hidden Power Fire
- Healing Wish
Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
Latias @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Trick / Grass Knot / Hidden Power Fire
- Healing Wish
Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
I feel like trick, Draco Meteor, Psychic, and HP fire would be great on scarf lati. I agree that it doesn't necessarily need Healing Wish. I'm also on the fence on whether or not Latias should be a cm + recover set/ a z-move set like others have talked about previously. Choice scarf seems nice though since this team is fairly slow so far.
Looking at this team so far, I can tell Krookodile is a problem. So this nomination will go towards taking that on.
Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- U-turn
Not only is Hydreigon good at taking on Krookodile, it also allows us to use a different set on Latias (like defog or cm). Hydreigon also brings in some nice U-Turn momentum for this team.
On a side note, we could keep Latias scarfed and have Hydreigon be Life Orb or Leftovers with Dragon Pulse, Dark Pulse, Roost, and U-Turn.
Looking at this team so far, I can tell Krookodile is a problem. So this nomination will go towards taking that on.
Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- U-turn
Not only is Hydreigon good at taking on Krookodile, it also allows us to use a different set on Latias (like defog or cm). Hydreigon also brings in some nice U-Turn momentum for this team.
On a side note, we could keep Latias scarfed and have Hydreigon be Life Orb or Leftovers with Dragon Pulse, Dark Pulse, Roost, and U-Turn.
I dunno, we have max defense Sylveon and two mons that can take advantage of whatever move the ever common scarf Krookodile locks itself into, it could prove annoying but we do have ways to play around it. I do see your point however but other Ground types like the Nido's or Mamo would still steamroll the team even with Hydreigon.
I'm also not terribly keen on the idea of adding another dragon type to the team when we have a perfectly good one as is, I would rather start thinking about a hazard remover that works well with the Steel/Dragon/Fairy core we've got.
Tentacruel @ Black Sludge / Shuca Berry
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Def / 136 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes
- Sludge Wave
This set should look somewhat familiar to anyone who's taken the time to look at the second post of the thread or the second CCAT's RMT thread, it's your basic Tentacruel with enough speed to outrun both Mamoswine and Nidoking. Since the team is rather bulky Toxic Spikes would help keep the pressure on the opponent even while making more defensive plays like Wishpassing with Sylveon, meanwhile Sludge Wave lets Tenta actually do damage to the fairy types it resists while also hitting things that don't care about Scald, like Celebi, Mantine, and Volcanion.
As for the item, Black Sludge is the tried and true item that is overall more useful for keeping Tenta alive.
However Shuca lets Tenta survive a hit from Nidoking or Mamoswine, allowing it to actually beat them 1 on 1 (as well as Gliscor if you find room for Ice Beam). It also allows Tenta to get off a soild 50%-ish on a MegaAero with EQ and 60%-ish on Krook, weakening and potentially burning them both if need be.
Again Black Sludge is undoubtedly better in almost any other case, but Shuca has it benefits and might be worth thinking about for the sake of having a bit more freedom in choosing the final two mons.
As for Latias, how about the Calm Mind+ Z-Thunderbolt set for dealing with bulky water types? Empoleon is a bit of an issue for the team at the moment.
Reserving mantine
flaoty boaty (Mantine) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Defog
- Roost
- Haze
Description:
It's an uncommon bulky water but it adds a great utility move in Defog and strengthens the team against some key types, giving additional Fire, Water, Ground and Fighting resistances. It also counters Scizor which troubles the team badly right now and is a good check to Mamoswine. Since we're moving towards balance, it seems very likely we're going to end up using a Water type so picking Mantine gets that out of the way as well as getting hazard control out of the way.
Comparison to Tentacruel:
flaoty boaty (Mantine) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Defog
- Roost
- Haze
Description:
It's an uncommon bulky water but it adds a great utility move in Defog and strengthens the team against some key types, giving additional Fire, Water, Ground and Fighting resistances. It also counters Scizor which troubles the team badly right now and is a good check to Mamoswine. Since we're moving towards balance, it seems very likely we're going to end up using a Water type so picking Mantine gets that out of the way as well as getting hazard control out of the way.
Comparison to Tentacruel:
- You have reliable recovery and a ground immunity
- You have a more reliable hazard control move
- You lose out on Toxic Spikes passive damage, but it's not necessarily easy to set up anyways
- You're weak to SR while being immune to Spikes
- You have better stats apart from speed which is not too important, with some exceptions
Last edited:
alright apologies again for the tardiness, anyways we have...
tmacbalanced - Choice Scarf Hydreigon
CodeRed23 - Tentacruel
pokeisfun - Mantine
I'll probably be voting later on for any potential tie breaking needs... Voting will end at 7/29 @ 11:59 PM PST
tmacbalanced - Choice Scarf Hydreigon
I feel like trick, Draco Meteor, Psychic, and HP fire would be great on scarf lati. I agree that it doesn't necessarily need Healing Wish. I'm also on the fence on whether or not Latias should be a cm + recover set/ a z-move set like others have talked about previously. Choice scarf seems nice though since this team is fairly slow so far.
Looking at this team so far, I can tell Krookodile is a problem. So this nomination will go towards taking that on.
Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- U-turn
Not only is Hydreigon good at taking on Krookodile, it also allows us to use a different set on Latias (like defog or cm). Hydreigon also brings in some nice U-Turn momentum for this team.
On a side note, we could keep Latias scarfed and have Hydreigon be Life Orb or Leftovers with Dragon Pulse, Dark Pulse, Roost, and U-Turn.
Looking at this team so far, I can tell Krookodile is a problem. So this nomination will go towards taking that on.
Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- U-turn
Not only is Hydreigon good at taking on Krookodile, it also allows us to use a different set on Latias (like defog or cm). Hydreigon also brings in some nice U-Turn momentum for this team.
On a side note, we could keep Latias scarfed and have Hydreigon be Life Orb or Leftovers with Dragon Pulse, Dark Pulse, Roost, and U-Turn.
Tentacruel @ Black Sludge / Shuca Berry
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Def / 136 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes
- Sludge Wave
This set should look somewhat familiar to anyone who's taken the time to look at the second post of the thread or the second CCAT's RMT thread, it's your basic Tentacruel with enough speed to outrun both Mamoswine and Nidoking. Since the team is rather bulky Toxic Spikes would help keep the pressure on the opponent even while making more defensive plays like Wishpassing with Sylveon, meanwhile Sludge Wave lets Tenta actually do damage to the fairy types it resists while also hitting things that don't care about Scald, like Celebi, Mantine, and Volcanion.
As for the item, Black Sludge is the tried and true item that is overall more useful for keeping Tenta alive.
However Shuca lets Tenta survive a hit from Nidoking or Mamoswine, allowing it to actually beat them 1 on 1 (as well as Gliscor if you find room for Ice Beam). It also allows Tenta to get off a soild 50%-ish on a MegaAero with EQ and 60%-ish on Krook, weakening and potentially burning them both if need be.
Again Black Sludge is undoubtedly better in almost any other case, but Shuca has it benefits and might be worth thinking about for the sake of having a bit more freedom in choosing the final two mons.
As for Latias, how about the Calm Mind+ Z-Thunderbolt set for dealing with bulky water types? Empoleon is a bit of an issue for the team at the moment.
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Def / 136 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes
- Sludge Wave
This set should look somewhat familiar to anyone who's taken the time to look at the second post of the thread or the second CCAT's RMT thread, it's your basic Tentacruel with enough speed to outrun both Mamoswine and Nidoking. Since the team is rather bulky Toxic Spikes would help keep the pressure on the opponent even while making more defensive plays like Wishpassing with Sylveon, meanwhile Sludge Wave lets Tenta actually do damage to the fairy types it resists while also hitting things that don't care about Scald, like Celebi, Mantine, and Volcanion.
As for the item, Black Sludge is the tried and true item that is overall more useful for keeping Tenta alive.
However Shuca lets Tenta survive a hit from Nidoking or Mamoswine, allowing it to actually beat them 1 on 1 (as well as Gliscor if you find room for Ice Beam). It also allows Tenta to get off a soild 50%-ish on a MegaAero with EQ and 60%-ish on Krook, weakening and potentially burning them both if need be.
Again Black Sludge is undoubtedly better in almost any other case, but Shuca has it benefits and might be worth thinking about for the sake of having a bit more freedom in choosing the final two mons.
As for Latias, how about the Calm Mind+ Z-Thunderbolt set for dealing with bulky water types? Empoleon is a bit of an issue for the team at the moment.
flaoty boaty (Mantine) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Defog
- Roost
- Haze
Description:
It's an uncommon bulky water but it adds a great utility move in Defog and strengthens the team against some key types, giving additional Fire, Water, Ground and Fighting resistances. It also counters Scizor which troubles the team badly right now and is a good check to Mamoswine. Since we're moving towards balance, it seems very likely we're going to end up using a Water type so picking Mantine gets that out of the way as well as getting hazard control out of the way.
Comparison to Tentacruel:
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Defog
- Roost
- Haze
Description:
It's an uncommon bulky water but it adds a great utility move in Defog and strengthens the team against some key types, giving additional Fire, Water, Ground and Fighting resistances. It also counters Scizor which troubles the team badly right now and is a good check to Mamoswine. Since we're moving towards balance, it seems very likely we're going to end up using a Water type so picking Mantine gets that out of the way as well as getting hazard control out of the way.
Comparison to Tentacruel:
- You have reliable recovery and a ground immunity
- You have a more reliable hazard control move
- You lose out on Toxic Spikes passive damage, but it's not necessarily easy to set up anyways
- You're weak to SR while being immune to Spikes
- You have better stats apart from speed which is not too important, with some exceptions
Steelix @ Steelixite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
Latias @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Trick / Grass Knot / Hidden Power Fire
- Healing Wish
Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
Latias @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Trick / Grass Knot / Hidden Power Fire
- Healing Wish
Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
My vote is in for Mantine. pokeisfun said all that needs to be said so, I got nothing to add. Great post dude.
My vote goes to Mantine as well, I honestly hadn't realized how common rain teams were when I made my post or how difficult they would be to stop with our current setup.
My only real issue with Mantine is that it'll probably be taking a lot of chip damage if it's our main switch in to Scizor because it'll lose 25% hp if rocks are up, an extra 12% or 24% from Scizor's U-turn depending on the set, and will most likely getting forced out by whatever comes in after said U-turn.
That sounds like a lot of pressure for our Scizor counter.
My only real issue with Mantine is that it'll probably be taking a lot of chip damage if it's our main switch in to Scizor because it'll lose 25% hp if rocks are up, an extra 12% or 24% from Scizor's U-turn depending on the set, and will most likely getting forced out by whatever comes in after said U-turn.
That sounds like a lot of pressure for our Scizor counter.
sorry i haven't been active at all lately, i just kinda fell out of pace with checking Smogon
that being said, i like Mantine as an addition to the team, mostly because of it's good synergy with Mega Steelix and as a Scizor check. (Mega Steelix can be used as a Scizor switchin as it can tank anything Scizor throws at it bar Superpower. However, it leaves it as setup bait, so a possible move to have on Steelix could be Fire Fang.) idk how we wanna run Steelix as i wasn't here during that part of the team, but it's a possibility, at least
that being said, i like Mantine as an addition to the team, mostly because of it's good synergy with Mega Steelix and as a Scizor check. (Mega Steelix can be used as a Scizor switchin as it can tank anything Scizor throws at it bar Superpower. However, it leaves it as setup bait, so a possible move to have on Steelix could be Fire Fang.) idk how we wanna run Steelix as i wasn't here during that part of the team, but it's a possibility, at least
alright Mantine takes the 4th slot of the team.
Mantine @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Defog
- Roost
- Haze
Anyways, Round 5 will now take place. Remember that you can submit changes (anything from switching out an entire Pokemon or to minute changes like item or nature changes) for the team from this round forward. Though if you are going to submit a change, try to make sure the change keeps in line with what the rest of the community wants the team to look like.
Deadline will be 8/2 @ 11:59 PM PST
Mantine @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Defog
- Roost
- Haze
Anyways, Round 5 will now take place. Remember that you can submit changes (anything from switching out an entire Pokemon or to minute changes like item or nature changes) for the team from this round forward. Though if you are going to submit a change, try to make sure the change keeps in line with what the rest of the community wants the team to look like.
Deadline will be 8/2 @ 11:59 PM PST
Steelix @ Steelixite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
Latias @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Trick / Grass Knot / Hidden Power Fire
- Healing Wish
Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
Mantine @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Defog
- Roost
- Haze
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
Latias @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Trick / Grass Knot / Hidden Power Fire
- Healing Wish
Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
Mantine @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Defog
- Roost
- Haze
Last edited:
Seeing as we've elected to run Mantine I will explore my reasoning for Z-Thunder Latias. The current team has plenty of sustain; Wish + Heal Bell Sylveon & Roost Mantine doesn't require as much support from a Scarf + Healing Wish Latias. Furthermore, by running Mantine our team is not as weak versus rain builds; and M-Steelix covers Xurkitree rain archetypes. That leaves us open to explore other options for Latias.
On it's own the core struggles versus Pokemon such as Empoleon & Togekiss. We can cover both of these Pokemon with Z-Thunder Latias, as well as cover other threatening Pokemon such as opposing bulky Water-types, Scizor, etc. Calm Mind + Z-Thunder Latias gives us a set up sweeper and fire power (something that this team is seriously lacking); and it appreciates support in the form of Sylveon.
I'd also like to nominate a 5th Pokemon, is that allowed? I think the idea of a Pursuit trapper is very fitting on this team. Problem Pokemon that come to mind, include: M-Pidgeot, Latias, Celebi, Hawlucha (Sky Attack), Togekiss, Haxorus, Mamoswine, Starmie. Adding Weavile would be quite fitting in my opinion. It gives us an offensive option, Pursuit and, adequately covers most of those previously mentioned Pokemon.
Weavile makes us sensitive to Pokemon such as SD Scizor, Terrakion & Crawdaunt (depending on coverage). In terms of other good Pursuit Pokemon that I could see working; Scarf Krookodile & Alolan Muk could work too.
On it's own the core struggles versus Pokemon such as Empoleon & Togekiss. We can cover both of these Pokemon with Z-Thunder Latias, as well as cover other threatening Pokemon such as opposing bulky Water-types, Scizor, etc. Calm Mind + Z-Thunder Latias gives us a set up sweeper and fire power (something that this team is seriously lacking); and it appreciates support in the form of Sylveon.
I'd also like to nominate a 5th Pokemon, is that allowed? I think the idea of a Pursuit trapper is very fitting on this team. Problem Pokemon that come to mind, include: M-Pidgeot, Latias, Celebi, Hawlucha (Sky Attack), Togekiss, Haxorus, Mamoswine, Starmie. Adding Weavile would be quite fitting in my opinion. It gives us an offensive option, Pursuit and, adequately covers most of those previously mentioned Pokemon.
Weavile makes us sensitive to Pokemon such as SD Scizor, Terrakion & Crawdaunt (depending on coverage). In terms of other good Pursuit Pokemon that I could see working; Scarf Krookodile & Alolan Muk could work too.
Latias @ Electrium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Thunder
- Calm Mind
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Thunder
- Calm Mind
Weavile @ Life Orb/ Choice Band
Ability: Pick Pocket
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Pursuit / Low Kick / Poison Jab
Ability: Pick Pocket
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Pursuit / Low Kick / Poison Jab
Was going to nom Weavile but since Pokemon Sparrow beat me to it (good post btw) I decided on another pursuit user that I could see working as well. Scarf Krookodile aids this build by providing a strong answer to threats like Lati, Pidgeot, Terrakion, Xurk, etc. while bringing good speed control and a solid pursuit user. As opposed to Weavile, it offers a stronger answer to Scizor and Terrak while not being rocks weak and providing more defensive utility in the form of intimidate. With scarf Krook in mind we would need to adjust the Latias set, as it just simply isn't necessary anymore. CM + Electrium Z would've been my preferred option, but again, it was nommed before me. So the next best thing would be CM + Dragonium Z Latias w/ Thunderbolt. At +1, Tbolt 2hko's both Togekiss and Empoleon while still maintaining a strong STAB nuke in Devastating Drake, which can be useful against certain fat mons like A-Muk while also easing the Krook matchup. While weaker against fat steels, I believe we already have adequate enough counterplay with Steelix and Mantine, so it isn't the worst thing in the world.
Latias @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
Krookodile @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
Krookodile @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge
Sorry for the late post again. Keep in mind that there are proposed changes for Latias and submissions for the 5th slot so if possible, please vote for 1 change and 1 addition (5th slot mon).
Changes
Latias
pokemon sparrow - Calm Mind Z-Thunder
ceal - Calm Mind Z-Draco Meteor w/ Thunderbolt
5th Slot
pokemon sparrow - Weavile
ceal - Choice Scarf Krookodile
Deadline will be 8/4 @ 10PM PST, will include my vote later on.
Changes
Latias
pokemon sparrow - Calm Mind Z-Thunder
Latias @ Electrium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Thunder
- Calm Mind
Seeing as we've elected to run Mantine I will explore my reasoning for Z-Thunder Latias. The current team has plenty of sustain; Wish + Heal Bell Sylveon & Roost Mantine doesn't require as much support from a Scarf + Healing Wish Latias. Furthermore, by running Mantine our team is not as weak versus rain builds; and M-Steelix covers Xurkitree rain archetypes. That leaves us open to explore other options for Latias.
On it's own the core struggles versus Pokemon such as Empoleon & Togekiss. We can cover both of these Pokemon with Z-Thunder Latias, as well as cover other threatening Pokemon such as opposing bulky Water-types, Scizor, etc. Calm Mind + Z-Thunder Latias gives us a set up sweeper and fire power (something that this team is seriously lacking); and it appreciates support in the form of Sylveon.
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Thunder
- Calm Mind
Seeing as we've elected to run Mantine I will explore my reasoning for Z-Thunder Latias. The current team has plenty of sustain; Wish + Heal Bell Sylveon & Roost Mantine doesn't require as much support from a Scarf + Healing Wish Latias. Furthermore, by running Mantine our team is not as weak versus rain builds; and M-Steelix covers Xurkitree rain archetypes. That leaves us open to explore other options for Latias.
On it's own the core struggles versus Pokemon such as Empoleon & Togekiss. We can cover both of these Pokemon with Z-Thunder Latias, as well as cover other threatening Pokemon such as opposing bulky Water-types, Scizor, etc. Calm Mind + Z-Thunder Latias gives us a set up sweeper and fire power (something that this team is seriously lacking); and it appreciates support in the form of Sylveon.
Latias @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
So the next best thing would be CM + Dragonium Z Latias w/ Thunderbolt. At +1, Tbolt 2hko's both Togekiss and Empoleon while still maintaining a strong STAB nuke in Devastating Drake, which can be useful against certain fat mons like A-Muk while also easing the Krook matchup. While weaker against fat steels, I believe we already have adequate enough counterplay with Steelix and Mantine, so it isn't the worst thing in the world.
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
So the next best thing would be CM + Dragonium Z Latias w/ Thunderbolt. At +1, Tbolt 2hko's both Togekiss and Empoleon while still maintaining a strong STAB nuke in Devastating Drake, which can be useful against certain fat mons like A-Muk while also easing the Krook matchup. While weaker against fat steels, I believe we already have adequate enough counterplay with Steelix and Mantine, so it isn't the worst thing in the world.
5th Slot
pokemon sparrow - Weavile
Weavile @ Life Orb/ Choice Band
Ability: Pick Pocket
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Pursuit / Low Kick / Poison Jab
I'd also like to nominate a 5th Pokemon, is that allowed? I think the idea of a Pursuit trapper is very fitting on this team. Problem Pokemon that come to mind, include: M-Pidgeot, Latias, Celebi, Hawlucha (Sky Attack), Togekiss, Haxorus, Mamoswine, Starmie. Adding Weavile would be quite fitting in my opinion. It gives us an offensive option, Pursuit and, adequately covers most of those previously mentioned Pokemon.
Weavile makes us sensitive to Pokemon such as SD Scizor, Terrakion & Crawdaunt (depending on coverage). In terms of other good Pursuit Pokemon that I could see working; Scarf Krookodile & Alolan Muk could work too.
Ability: Pick Pocket
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Pursuit / Low Kick / Poison Jab
I'd also like to nominate a 5th Pokemon, is that allowed? I think the idea of a Pursuit trapper is very fitting on this team. Problem Pokemon that come to mind, include: M-Pidgeot, Latias, Celebi, Hawlucha (Sky Attack), Togekiss, Haxorus, Mamoswine, Starmie. Adding Weavile would be quite fitting in my opinion. It gives us an offensive option, Pursuit and, adequately covers most of those previously mentioned Pokemon.
Weavile makes us sensitive to Pokemon such as SD Scizor, Terrakion & Crawdaunt (depending on coverage). In terms of other good Pursuit Pokemon that I could see working; Scarf Krookodile & Alolan Muk could work too.
Krookodile @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge
Was going to nom Weavile but since Pokemon Sparrow beat me to it (good post btw) I decided on another pursuit user that I could see working as well. Scarf Krookodile aids this build by providing a strong answer to threats like Lati, Pidgeot, Terrakion, Xurk, etc. while bringing good speed control and a solid pursuit user. As opposed to Weavile, it offers a stronger answer to Scizor and Terrak while not being rocks weak and providing more defensive utility in the form of intimidate. With scarf Krook in mind we would need to adjust the Latias set, as it just simply isn't necessary anymore. CM + Electrium Z would've been my preferred option, but again, it was nommed before me.
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge
Was going to nom Weavile but since Pokemon Sparrow beat me to it (good post btw) I decided on another pursuit user that I could see working as well. Scarf Krookodile aids this build by providing a strong answer to threats like Lati, Pidgeot, Terrakion, Xurk, etc. while bringing good speed control and a solid pursuit user. As opposed to Weavile, it offers a stronger answer to Scizor and Terrak while not being rocks weak and providing more defensive utility in the form of intimidate. With scarf Krook in mind we would need to adjust the Latias set, as it just simply isn't necessary anymore. CM + Electrium Z would've been my preferred option, but again, it was nommed before me.
Steelix @ Steelixite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
Latias @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Trick / Grass Knot / Hidden Power Fire
- Healing Wish
Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
Mantine @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Defog
- Roost
- Haze
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
Latias @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Trick / Grass Knot / Hidden Power Fire
- Healing Wish
Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
Mantine @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Defog
- Roost
- Haze