NOC Animal Mafia ~Game Over~

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It's hard to explain my thoughts without taking the time to go through and make notes on everything (which I haven't been doing).

I dunno maybe I'll have time tomorrow, probably not. We have 14 days so I would like to take my time to find a time in which I can do that.
 
nothing
nothing
asek and moody are town
can't read hawkie or jalmont
vote jalmont
explains vote on me + defends self from hawkie
defends tballz
nothing
expected better from durza
asek is town votes xnadroj, but for no real reason (seems like act prod)
votes durza
twin and hawkie town, votes haruno
nothing
votes aubisio
town lean on xnadroj first mention
willing to vote whydon/jordan/durza/ap, won't vote jalmont/moody/texas
makes excuses, votes whydon
claims to avoid lynch
doesn't want to vote twin
subs out

nothing really so far. can't really give a ton of credit for those jordan and aubisio votes since they were more prods than actual pushes. no mention of knights either which isn't great. in general just seems pretty off, but I feel like that might just be blaz struggling to do multiple things at once.

random vote Whydon
nothing
locktowns Earlio, votes Asek
fakes veteran/bpv here?
nothing
Jalmont Earlio knights town, votes durza
"haruno wagon is aids"
asek feels "off", jalmont earlio twin knights town asek blazade whydon sort of scumlean, 3pk null
mithril defense
blazade mafia, votes him
repeat post
do not vote haruno or jalmont
or earlio
knights jalmont town blazade mafia
nothing
jalmont/mithril town
nothing statement re: aprictiy's play
earlio is town
please vote blazade guys!
vote blazade
vote blazade

oh i guess there's 0 mention of aubisio or xnad here which is fairly interesting. if anyone would be bussed early i would imagine it to be aubisio but can't really remember if people were heavily town reading him or anything. puts knights in the town pool which i would say is their second strongest member which would be a good idea. the scumleans are all wrong which is unfortunate but i've also been wrong about everything in this game. yeah in hindsight this doesn't look super great? the votes/reads seem like they have setup knowledge moreso than Blazade's votes.

tbc
 
I mean, yeah, feel free to go through my predecessor's behavior, but I can't really talk about how he played, only that he was town.

Should have reread + pro/cons list done this afternoon or evening, will mostly be around all day if you need me.
 
making progress

asks for summary
nothing
nothing
nothing
nothing
nothing
nothing
extension request
nothing
aubisio - newb town
ok with lynching haruno
this read on earlio makes no sense c/p'd here for convenience "Really like Texas's townread on them based off of his first post ("Screwed up my scum streak") - it's the type of comment that I see more often from town because it's literally the first thing that pops into their head (yay, I'm town) rather than trying to fake it as scum (shoot, I got a scum role PM, better declare I'm town/make a snarky comment about it as opposed to just doing a traditional RVS vote). Other than that, he has a lot of minor housekeeping comments throughout Day 1 but I think that he townslipped at the beginning of Day 2? Ish? I was more confident on this when I was reading through. Honestly right now.. I might want to take another look at Earlio. He made these sorts of casual comments last game and he ended up flipping scum, and.. his play this game is sort of similar ish? He's not really hunting, he's just.. there, and that unnerves me. Will need to reread/engage with sometime."
null on leet
light town read jalmont
whydon "self resolving"
set aside 3pk
FH is "pretty town"
texas town
xnadroj scum, moody null, knights scum, leave ap for later
nothing
response to leet
nothing (points out the obvious)
votes knights
working through xnad claim
wants xnad to clarify or wait for cc
questioning neighborizer
nothing
nothing
asks for if we should massclaim
pushes massclaim
asks for actions alongside some nothing
nothing
asks for fullclaim (to ap i reckon i dunno dont wanna check the post lol)
explanation re: fullclaim to ap
vanilla town claim
nothing
defends ap from knights attack
excellent post 1228: earlio/whydon/ap are town then xnad is mafia, behavioral scumread on knights
nothing
FH is town
ascetic could be like miller, don't read into it
hedging on xnad
knights leet haruno xnad, maybe add aubisio
question
"deep scum" is ap 3pk
jalmont should be reread but implicit town
nothing
weird hedging regarding xnad "just reread Xnadroj's posts and he says he "claims town" in his first post which makes me nervous because every time I see someone declare themselves town, most of the time they actually are just town but it's very easily fakable." strange especially in context of previous post above
earlio/jalmont mafia if xnad village
paranoia post (lol)
do we want to hammer? lol
yes lets hammer
nothing
nothing
nothing/question
1336
 
gotta run here's where i'm at with FH now


redirected someone claim
nothing lol same ate surrounding what blazade wrote in his role pm
redirected XX to aprcitiy
explanation why he redirected
nothing
weak scum read on apricity and jordan (why would u redirect a weak scum read...) directly contradictory post
"the people who started this wagon are scum"
persuader crap
vote apricity because he wanted the persuader to claim
calling out texas
"someone who gets nearly lynched several days in a row for weak or exaggerated reasons with no one defending them is usually town"
ap and KOC are scum
nothing
dont hammer me? (i dont actually know if he was close to being hammered)
ap/koc still mafia but just barely over 3pk and earlio
nothing
appeal to emotion
town: jalmont/whydon/2pk/maybe haruno mafia: earlio, KOC, ap, texas, moody votes moody
nothing
v strong town read on whydon
persuade crap
persuade crap + questioning jalmont town rd
votes jalmont
moody is mafia apparently
persuade crap
nothing
question response
calling out texas
nothing
jordan defense
question
texas/moody/koc mafia team
knows whydon's role? how would he know that????? (unless he was copped but why would mafia check whydon...)
ok nvm this post explains why im wrong
paranoia
i dont understand what this post is saying
something about the claims
something about claims
misremembers action LOL
redirect XX to ap
wasn't targeted (asked by earlio)
nothing
nothing
question to knights
question response
uhh votes XX??
reiteration of his night action
he thinks haruno and KOC is null
questions jordan
nothing
asks hooker to claim
989
 
So, here's basically a list of pros and cons what I've liked and disliked about Jalmont and Former Hope.

Jalmont

PROS

- His messenger claim. This is actually a pretty big reason as to why he is town, because messenger and neighborizer are both communication type roles, and having both be scum would be a pretty cruel joke for Metal Sonic unless he is trying to punish the town for modgaming. Mafia messenger and Mafia neighborizer would massively confuse the town, and I do not think Metal Sonic would do this.

- Tried to engage/scumhunting during the early parts of the game. Stuff like this for instance give me a pretty positive view of him:
Cool if you have an issue with it, why don’t you start some discussion that is productive?
Propose someone else then. I don't see you laying a vote on anyone relevant.
That's a good start. Let me help you take the next step though. How does your observation of me having "a lot of hot air with no actual reads" indicate that I'm mafia? Can you explain how you got from that specific observation to being mafia? It's difficult to respond if that's all you give for people to work with.

Don't you think that's a bit of an oversimplification of my play so far? What would you call my stance on Haruno, if not a read?

I am troubled by Asek popping in to defend Haruno...not by suggesting a different vote...but by attempting to defend his recent gameplay? One defense which is completely irrelevant at best and otherwise blatantly misses the point at worst? I guess you could say that goes to his point of me being mafia but there doesn't seem to really be a super strong connection? At least none that Asek points out. that;s not a great contribution for someone just popping into the thread

- Don't think he spends all of this time arguing with Texas if he's mafia but that's a pretty thin read because I don't know how Jalmont scum operates. To me, it feels like getting into this entire slapfight with Texas when you're mafia and he's town is pretty suicidal because you want to get on Texas's good side versus his bad one, especially after he wallposted?

Aside:
XnadrojX said:
I feel like I want to townread Jalmont for being so against the tide but then again it could be me being pocketed so.... I'd put him as town for now.
this is such a weird interaction

-
I guess if everyone is so confident that xnadroj is mafia and no one agrees with me on this then fine, vote xnadrojx. I'm just trying to survive really.
I don't think Jalmont makes this post if he's scumbuddies with Xnad? It feels way too on the nose if he knows that Xnad is scum, if that makes any sense.

-
Knights said:
Actually, gonna take Jalmont out of the DNL pool and vote Jalmont. This doesn't seem like it's going to stop anytime soon and it's spiraling in on itself. The time for PL is now, while there's less pain involved.
No way I feel that Knights proposes Jalmont as a "policy lynch". What scum proposes their scumbuddy as a policy lynch? Plus, he goes "Jalmont, Texas, no more fighting?" - Why doesn't he tell his scumbuddy to cut it out in the scumchat? This was an interaction I didn't catch before without more fully rereading the thread, but now that I found it it makes Jalmont more likely town.

CONS

- What he did with the messenger. He.. used it to fake a persuader role in this game, and targeted scum with it (Aubisio, Knights) and they were completely convinced. Now, he could have used that to clear Knights/Aubisio, but he continued to maintain that the persuade was faked. My question here is: I'm still not sure what he was actually trying to do with the persuade play. I'm going to keep rereading to see how it actually played out, but I would have used the messenger role a lot differently than Jalmont has, which I felt mainly was used to create chaos.

- The fact that he was scumreading a lot of townies early on. That gives me paranoia because I feel like it's pretty clear that the scum were not really trying to bus this game, moreso distance. If his team was trying to power wolf through this game then Jalmont being scum makes a lot of sense.

- He chainsawed defended Xnad in #418, which is a Thing. Gut says that he probably wouldn't do it so.. "blatantly" though if that makes sense? Like you see your scumbuddy struggling and then you see someone post a case on him; if I'm scum in that position I agree with the person who posted the case and try to bus my scumbuddy and cut my losses. Him just going "nah this case isn't good" could be him chainsawing Xnadroj, but maybe he genuinely didn't know Xnad's alignment? This is confirmation bias though, MoodyCloud can you check this?

- Knights putting him on his null list when he had a list of scumreads which include Xnad/FH/Epik makes me sort of paranoid about him because scum often do rule of three (one scum on scumreads, two town) but this is a pretty weak point.

Former Hope

PROS

- This is an OOG thing but Former Hope said that he had notes from Blazade saying that he was too overwhelmed in the game. This I am inclined to believe as genuine and something that FH would not really think about if he was scum? Though in my confirmation biased mind I feel like Blazade is annoyed because he is being pressured as scum.

- Very genuine reactions throughout most of this endgame period. Like seriously, if he's scum, then he's played a good game. I really liked his ISO of me and how he was deliberating over it.

CONS

- Terrible interactions with flipped scum. Blazade voted two scum, yes (Aubisio/Xnad) but he quickly moved off of them and declared a townread on Xnad. This feels like Blazade was trying to distance/get some token interactions with his buddies moreso than actually scumhunting. Xnad also declared a heavy town read on him.

- Blazade (5): Hawkie, apricity, 3P1K, Texas Cloverleaf, Whydon

Blazade had a wagon of him of all townies before he claimed redirector.

- When FH caught up, he voted Moody who we all know is town rather than any of the scum. He listed as Knights having a slight scumread, aubisio as null, and he couldn't remember any of Xnad's posts. Feels like scum who doesn't want to bus any of their buddies, to me! Also he said that Texas was scum and worked to like, actively discredit him.

- When everyone voted FH, Knights was the fifth on the wagon. He probably wanted to wait for everyone to vote before committing a vote to bus his buddy.

-
I guess after reading XX's posts I guess I get why people have a gut scum read on him. But at the same time I can't see anything overtly scummy in those posts and frankly he's right. It would be nice to know why people are convinced he's scum since that still hasn't actually been explained beyond BS vague af posts.

Defends Xnad here.

Is anyone else feeling the texas/moody/koc scum team

Trying to discredit townies while tossing scum in for rule of three. He voted Xnad but only after Whydon claimed, then he votes Whydon. He's trying really hard to get a town mislynch on Day 3 if you read that Day.

Also if xx does flip town texas and moody are 100% mafia
Just trying to discredit townies man.

FORMER HOPE should be chomping on the bit to lynch JORDAN here because his action literally directly CONTRADICTS what jordan claims he's done in this game

his FAILURE to do so makes me think the only EXPLANATION is that he and jordan are BOTH MAFIA covering up for their failure to communicate FAKE claims
basically this.

- WOW has this game really been going on for a month since I replaced in? Dang.

- Day 4 he votes Jalmont instead of going for Knights.

- He's redirector, which would fit the scum needing a disruptor type role as opposed to another communication type role (this is modgaming).

- What has he been DOING for the past day? He said that he's trying to get ISOs done, but he talks about reasons why he wants to vote me and then he doesn't? Like it feels like he's trying to keep options open instead of gamesolving.

- He's been concentrating on defending himself about being the redirector moreso than actually trying to solve.
 
Jalmont Former Hope MoodyCloud

I want to end this game tomorrow.

Will be mostly around all day tomorrow, going to vote FH, FH will probably vote me considering he is the last mafia, then Jalmont can decide for himself who he wants to lynch.

Completely convinced I have solved the game here; could be confirmation bias but FH has terrible interactions with scum and has been doing literally nothing ever since his feet haven't been held to the fire. I think Jalmont is clear on the basis of being the neighborizer and the fact that Knights tried to policy lynch him and acted like the adult in the room; he doesn't do that if Jalmont is scum IMO.

If Jalmont is scum here, hats off to him, he played a very manipulative game, but I really don't think that's the case. Spent like this past week rereading and rereading this game and I'm convinced I have caught the last scum.

GLGL, let's end this very very long game with a town win.
 
Jalmont - where are you leaning right now?

If you think I'm scum, then what reasons why do you think I am scum? What do you think of my most recent posts? Can you take a look at Blazade's and FH's interactions with scum and tell me what you think?
 
Jalmont Former Hope MoodyCloud

I want to end this game tomorrow.

Will be mostly around all day tomorrow, going to vote FH, FH will probably vote me considering he is the last mafia, then Jalmont can decide for himself who he wants to lynch.

Completely convinced I have solved the game here; could be confirmation bias but FH has terrible interactions with scum and has been doing literally nothing ever since his feet haven't been held to the fire. I think Jalmont is clear on the basis of being the neighborizer and the fact that Knights tried to policy lynch him and acted like the adult in the room; he doesn't do that if Jalmont is scum IMO.

If Jalmont is scum here, hats off to him, he played a very manipulative game, but I really don't think that's the case. Spent like this past week rereading and rereading this game and I'm convinced I have caught the last scum.

GLGL, let's end this very very long game with a town win.

Sorry but that's literally not going to happen unless you and FH conspire to vote me. Which in that case you are mafia and I will be voting for you. So feel free to lay your vote on me whenever you so desire although if you are town you'd be voting for your demise (and we can talk about this if you so wish).
 
on a positive note v. persuasive argument. i think your bang on the money with everything you've said. i do want to take my time to thoroughly look everything over (which I really am trying to find time to do).
 
if you need more time, that's fine.

I just believe that I've solved the game. The way Knights was trying to appear like the adult in the room WRT you and Texas clears you in my mind, plus your messenger role. FH is just the most likely scum based off of the razor.

Feel free to take as much time as you need to make the correct decision. I will be around if you need questions answered.
 
former hope said:
Also if xx does flip town texas and moody are 100% mafia

idk i don't find this quote very problematic since FH would obviously know xx is mafia...so not really discrediting town in any way here i don't think. interesting quote to pick out in hindsight
 
idk i don't find this quote very problematic since FH would obviously know xx is mafia...so not really discrediting town in any way here i don't think. interesting quote to pick out in hindsight

chalk it up to confirmation biasing when it's 1 am at night and me just picking out quotes that make FH more scum in my mind
 
how can you think the above and then say this

fh said:
Because I'm using critical thinking skills to apply knowledge that I publicly stated at the start of the day that I used my redirect and who I used it on and so XX not stating he was redirect feels more like a genuine mistake then scum move since well...it's public knowledge. If I hadn't revealed that publicly or at all and XX had posted, then yes absolutely I'd be on his ass. But seriously, how can you have a brain and think scum would knowingly contradict public information, like that only happens if he's actually trying to push to get me lynched and that hasn't been happening.
 
yay i did some more work

points out haruno omniguard contradiction
question
nothing
bizarrely trying to reinforce existence of town redirector
votes whydon, one of whydon haruno lying leaving koc out
nothing
nothing
clarification
"i'm voting for a lier over someone who might be the cop"
nothing
nothing
reiteration of apricity statement
nothing
lol "might be the freaking town cop" emotional appeal + nonsensical behavior
i [jalmont] pointed out how i feel about this post already in the thread
moody still mafia, needs time to think
xx hedging
1103 ALERT ALERT ALERT
nothing
nothing
changes role name claim??? interesting...
nothing
question
nothing
nothing
lol...
jordan not being redirected is apparently a "read" - super paranoia here
"the only thing i've been questioning is the lynch order of how we go about the suspect pool" very shifty defense of xnad there
waiting for cc. weird need of not being seen as defending xnad. dunno why - actually this post is so fking weird. FH claims he's nt defending jordan just attacking logic, so he's defending jordan. lol.
apparently jordan not posting didn't raise any red flags for FH
question
irrelevant feud with texas over something
tentative agreeance with mass claim
defense of xx by attacking moody/texas (a chainsaw defense if you will)
more jordan defense
jordan defense
jordan defense, would rather lynch omniguard than cop (Which makes 0 sense as well)
jordan defense
nothing
jordan defense, question to knights
reiteration of claim (recall claim inconsistency with color)
votes jordan lol
questions aubisio
nothing
jordan defense
unvotes xx, pressure leet
jordan act prod/defense
nothing
wants to know proph's deep scum
nothing
 
this needs to be explained
Apparently you only get a notice if you gain information back about your target

Anyways, I'm tired and burnt out right now. Whoever is town here seems to be convinced I'm the last mafia and the other is obviously manipulating them in the right direction. So gg whichever of you is the scum
 
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