NOC 2OC2NOC - Day 7: Zorbees is Dead.

[Laurel]

PSA:

NOTICE: It seems that a contract lawyer is in town! If you have any contracts you would like reviewed, presented, and/or enforced, you may submit them in your role PM within a spoiler tag labeled “Contract.”

Looks like everyone can send contracts so I obviously spent too much time thinking about this. big rip

 

[Tommy]

PSA:

NOTICE: It seems that a contract lawyer is in town! If you have any contracts you would like reviewed, presented, and/or enforced, you may submit them in your role PM within a spoiler tag labeled “Contract.”

Looks like everyone can send contracts so I obviously spent too much time thinking about this. big rip

Oh.

 

[CaffeineBoost]

also anyone who intros with "omg X pages too much words" is a scrub

I accept my position in this society and aim to work my way up.

 

[Panic Station]

someone run me through how question asker is balanced enough to be on town?

There's times where you gotta ask yourself if a PR normally associated with a specific faction is still viable when given to a different faction. Some things it works with, like a Town-scum Lovers pairing or a scum Role Cop. Others, like a Town Framer, not so much. I think Oracle/Question Asker falls into the latter category becuase it scum hands what could you do with it aside from hunting 3p or playing Pseudo Role Cop 20 Questions as poor PR hunting.

 

[Panic Station]

Asek I consign thee to the hell of being mobile constricted on a Markdown forum /joke that only Bloody will get

 

[apricity]

PSA:

NOTICE: It seems that a contract lawyer is in town! If you have any contracts you would like reviewed, presented, and/or enforced, you may submit them in your role PM within a spoiler tag labeled “Contract.”

Looks like everyone can send contracts so I obviously spent too much time thinking about this. big rip

What the fuck?

Why don’t we all give towneeads super easy contracts with BPV?

Why don’t we give everyone a fucking BPV?

Can scum use this?

 

[Panic Station]

who is tommy?

Dude, I told you this during the EIMM.

 

[apricity]

Also, since we have two question askers, do we want to use that to find the alignments of four people?

 

[Panic Station]

Also, I don't wanna immediately discard my Townreads just because my logic was flawed. Too shameless to care what you think about that.

 

[Refa]

I have a 100 percent read rate on m2h regardless of his alignment ever since his second game of mafia, in many games across multiple sites. I am able to read him to a negligible failure rate off as few of 2-3 posts, and MewtwoHidden will confirm that. My reason for not wanting to lynch in it is because I am in it, yes. I admitted I am being bias, but there's no reason why I would ever want to lynch in the pool regardless of my alignment, because it is likely to end in my death, especially when this information is going nowhere and at the very least it keeps me and (probably) one other really good town player alive until we decide to cut it. If this isn't true then we force scum to actually help us solve and kill whoever is town in the group, note I don't actually think they will do that. Resolving the info now or later doesn't actually matter that much, because we know it is there, we can address a 3 way dog fight or w/e later in the game to the same benefit. I know one of them is scum or 3p, at least. But I will still know that in a few days time, and it is not like we are running out of lynches. So if I have the chance to save both myself, and another good player who has a solid chance of being town, by simply being patient and trying to scumhunt in apricity/nuxl over the time we are allocated, then I will do that. It is not bad play, it is not scummy play, it is the correct town play to not jump the gun on info just because we have that info.

Also it should actually is roughly 1 in 3, smogon games arent scumsided unless you think 10/3, 13/4, 7/2 are all scumsided, the most common 4 mafia game ratios which all follow the formula of 3 town to 1 mafia player +1 extra town.

I don't take any issue with you town reading M2H. Your reasoning for not wanting to Lynch in that pool is illogical. You're essentially saying that "well, I could be lynched so I don't want to do it" even though FYPOV, there is a 1 in 2 chance of nailing scum. This proves that your priority this game is not catching scum, but self preservation which is uh...scummy, yes that's the word. Your reasoning for not lynching in between the three is uh...dubious. Letting likely scum live because "oh, a good town player could get lynched" is a bad excuse.

SB. You asked if me and a scum buddy were in the trio, how would I react. Well, I'd try to divert attention away from the trio if I was uh playing, but honestly? Realistically? I'd just stop trying because god that would fucking suck. Also uh fair enough on your read and your thought processes in general really.

Vote 2: Shubaka

 

[Tommy]

I don't take any issue with you town reading M2H. Your reasoning for not wanting to Lynch in that pool is illogical. You're essentially saying that "well, I could be lynched so I don't want to do it" even though FYPOV, there is a 1 in 2 chance of nailing scum. This proves that your priority this game is not catching scum, but self preservation which is uh...scummy, yes that's the word. Your reasoning for not lynching in between the three is uh...dubious. Letting likely scum live because "oh, a good town player could get lynched" is a bad excuse.

SB. You asked if me and a scum buddy were in the trio, how would I react. Well, I'd try to divert attention away from the trio if I was uh playing, but honestly? Realistically? I'd just stop trying because god that would fucking suck. Also uh fair enough on your read and your thought processes in general really.

Vote 2: Shubaka

You are acting like I never want to lynch there whereas I simple do not feel a need to rush into lynching it d1. This information is going nowhere, and I therefore do not feel the need to rush it d1. You are trying to sort me only half way, you are only questioning the scum incentive of my actions, rather than also considering if there is town incentive. What does town me lose from lynching elsewhere today? Nothing. If I die, then that guarentees a 1v1 tomorrow and I will never be mislynched. If one of the others die, I know that the last person in the trio is scum. The very worst that can happen from not lynching there today is...nothing? So I don't feel like I need to lynch there, if someone pings me is scum will I? Sure. But I am not tunneling myself in because there is no net gain from doing so, when the exact same interaction will just continue tomorrow.

To follow from this, hal has already claimed a vig, given the fact that he has this, I am going to assume if he is town he will be shooting in the trio, and no town is ever doccing any of the trio today, so that is going to give us a whole lot more info tomorrow if we don't lynch in our trio. It is easy to go "oh wow at least one scum in group x", but it is one-dimensional to believe you have to use the info you gain instantly when there are better ways to go about it, and plenty of time to solve it less wastefully.

 

[Tommy]

Thing about it like this, town hal has a 50/50 shot of hitting scum, so he should be shooting one of us today. If his shot fails we know scum stopped it, so we know he is in a direct 1v1 with whoever he shot, reducing our pool. If hal doesn't shoot one of my or nuxl, we can be pretty confident he is likely scum imo. We gain all this info without wasting one of our lynches today, so why would we waste a lynch today?

 

[Panic Station]

I can see a couple ways that would not go as expected (scum shoots into the trio to frame or kill Hal) but otherwise it's a good point.

 

[Panic Station]

My mom just had the decency to text me about a surprise visit, but didn't say when. At me today if you have any questions for me, idk when I'm gonna be busy.

 

[Panic Station]

At me tomorrow too, I have a doctor's appointment.

 

[bluedoom]

What are the votals anyway?

 

[bluedoom]

Fwiw I don't think hal's shot failing on someone implies that he is in a 1v1 with them, especially if we're assuming 3rd party exists in this game Duskfall98

 

[apricity]

Can someone just remind me why m2h’s result is 100% true

 

[Tommy]

Fwiw I don't think hal's shot failing on someone implies that he is in a 1v1 with them, especially if we're assuming 3rd party exists in this game Duskfall98

It would make me assume that one of those 2 are certainly scum, possibly both?

 

[Tommy]

Can someone just remind me why m2h’s result is 100% true

I townread them so I trust it. If you are asking me to assume that is is like a bastard question asker that gives fake results then idk if we could trust any results in the game at all?

 

[bluedoom]

We don't know if it is true or not but you can always read him to tell if he's town or not.

Question, dusk, but you've been saying so far that you think not lynching in m2h's pool is better, and you think that m2h is town. So, knowing that you have a 1/2 chance of hitting scum, what are the other lines of thought/discussion that you think need to be pursued today? Who would be better lynch candidates today?

 

[bluedoom]

Lynch 1: Caffeineboost

Had a wolfy entrance into the thread, vote feels very filler-y imo.

 

[Panic Station]

Is there a Circus rule that says Mods have to state in the rules if results might not be truthful?

 

[bluedoom]

Also off topic but there's a part of me that wants to lynch rssp cuz he probably would've subbed rufflet as a character and that must be totally mafia. XD

 

[Tommy]

We don't know if it is true or not but you can always read him to tell if he's town or not.

Question, dusk, but you've been saying so far that you think not lynching in m2h's pool is better, and you think that m2h is town. So, knowing that you have a 1/2 chance of hitting scum, what are the other lines of thought/discussion that you think need to be pursued today? Who would be better lynch candidates today?

It is not that I am actively avoiding lynching those 2, it is the fact that the information one of those two is likely scum is going nowhere so there is no need to rush into it.

So far refa pinged me and om pinged me, but I have secondary reasoning I can't really say that suggests refa is somewhere near their town meta even if I am scumleaning on them. I'd say so far I would want to lynch om, and secondary lynch is kinda up in the air rn. I am trying my best to find town more than anything because I think in a mash (this is essentially a mash), it does town a lot more benefit to clear players than to endlessly scumhunt. It is very easy to find a reason to lynch someone in a game this size, with so many players. The best thing we can do really is just try our best to reduce down the poe, especially d1.

I probably went a bit off topic tbh, but in regards to who exactly I WANT to lynch today, om seems to have been talking shite so that is a good one to start imo.