Unpopular opinions

[Bakugames]

I was saying edgy in " Oh, I'm sooo quirky, I chose chickorita, " and yeah, there is a geat replacment to it in tangrowth in HGSS because it fills basically the same rle, and I think theres some other good stuff in the original things.

The original doesnt have any good grass types as most of them are stone only in which the way to get stones in these games is stupid. Tangrowth is a fine choice but tangela is super spdef frail and super slow which means it dies to almost any special attacker, while bayleef is tankier on that while still having decent physical bulk. Tangrowth still is awful spdef wise and slow so its only useful vs physical attackers, while meganium can handle them decently and is faster.

They both have a similar niche but in game i think bayleef is better as an overall defensive tank while tangrowth is better as a physical attacker and physical tank. Either is fine, theyre both usable

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

No, I am asking the fandom to knock it off with the "Chikorita is the worst starter evar!!!!!oneeleven" bullcrap.

Hell, I'd go so far as to assert that the Chikorita hate is in part because it's so feminine-looking.

Chikorita is fine, not super good, just fine, you just need to use them as a team member/defensive tank, while most starters in game are offensive and able to solo.
If you want to use the defense capabilities, shes a decent choice, just not going to be the main team player, which is what people want from starters

That's the real reason Chikorita gets dunked on.

It's actually very good against some of the trickiest matchups in GSC, namely Whitney and Clair, but here's the thing. It's a support mon. A team player. You're not clicking Razor Leaf and watching things drop like flies on turn 1, you're clicking Reflect and setting up for a long battle most of the time.

In-Game, people value raw offensive power. This is why Totodile is the best Johto starter in-game.

GSC Chikorita gets its rep because it never gets a strong, drawback-free STAB and everything resists Grass in Johto with Poison-types everywhere.

 

[Siggu]

It's... kind of the same problem Snivy has in BW, although it gets some breathing room due to resists not being so stacked through the game, and once it gets Coil, it can actually solo many more opponents than one would think in the second half of the game.

It's not that it can't work, but a one-click win is more popular.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

The original doesnt have any good grass types as most of them are stone only in which the way to get stones in these games is stupid. Tangrowth is a fine choice but tangela is super spdef frail and super slow which means it dies to almost any special attacker, while bayleef is tankier on that while still having decent physical bulk. Tangrowth still is awful spdef wise and slow so its only useful vs physical attackers, while meganium can handle them decently and is faster.

They both have a similar niche but in game i think bayleef is better as an overall defensive tank while tangrowth is better as a physical attacker and physical tank. Either is fine, theyre both usable

Tangela is way too late. Bellsprout gets no moves. Oddish comes in severely underleveled in Ilex Forest and bumps on the same issue of not having good STAB or coverage in a region that resists most of its offensive moves.

Chikorita is by far the best Johto Grass-type and it's really not even close.

 

[Bloomer28]

Tangela is way too late. Bellsprout gets no moves. Oddish comes in severely underleveled in Ilex Forest and bumps on the same issue of not having good STAB or coverage in a region that resists most of its offensive moves.

Chikorita is by far the best Johto Grass-type and it's really not even close.

Ok, do maybe Meganium is the best grass type, because there really isn't much more. Thought we had like a roserade in there, so I get why people pick Meganium, because of the good bulk amd the lack of other grass types. But there still is the matchups agaisnt the first 3 gyms, making your starter kinda not as good, because it could only take like one ice beam and then die because of it's horrible spdef, so it's kind of the best of the worst.

Click Me

What does this mean? I think pointing out that Chikorita isn't as bad as it is commonly depicted falls under "Unpopular Opinions". Plus, my post clearly generated a lot of discussion anyways.




This is simply not true. Bayleef evolves at level 32; you're thinking of Typhlosion.




You have it backwards, because my post was about Chikorita in HGSS, and it can't even learn Petal Dance (its best move) in GSC.

A lot of Chikorita hate is due to its design though. It's not "cool" like the other starters and it doesn't have the raw power that Primarina has that makes people overlook its design. I believe the same thing also applies to Pokémon like Gardevoir ( especially in comparison to Alakazam).

Ok, this was really brash. I'm just being really defensive, and in turn being really annoying ad stuff. Maybe I am a manchild useless failure of a human being. Sorry, I'm just being dumb.

Edit: Wait, you never specified the game, so, sorry.

 

[Bakugames]

But there still is the matchups agaisnt the first 3 gyms, making your starter kinda not as good, because it could only take like one ice beam and then die because of it's horrible spdef, so it's kind of the best of the worst

Meganiums spdef is what it exels on vs the other two starters, what do you mean? Feraligator also has good defense but worse spdef, and typhlosion is just frailer in general.

Grass isnt the best defensive type in game, but meganium can still tank stuff, combined with screens and leech seed support it gets, it can live stuff way better than the other starters

Also while i prefer bayleef to meganium, meganium is the best gen 2 starter design wise, by a long shot. Unrelated but its an unpopular opinion so

 

[Bloomer28]

Meganiums spdef is what it exels on vs the other two starters, what do you mean? Feraligator also has good defense but worse spdef, and typhlosion is just frailer in general.

Grass isnt the best defensive type in game, but meganium can still tank stuff, combined with screens and leech seed support it gets, it can live stuff way better than the other starters

I was saying tangrowth, sorry, being dymb again. Got both of them mixed up, and had a stupid moment.

 

[Yung Dramps]

I feel like I might've brought this up somewhere in this subforum already but I'll take my chances

Can someone please explain to where all these rabid hordes of genwunners are? I've been in the core Pokefandom in some form for what, 4-5 years? Been playing the series and watching videos about it for much longer than that? And throughout that time I have literally maybe seen an amount of genwunners/unironic genwunner posts countable on two hands, with every instance of this resulting in OP being clowned on. And yet to this day people talk about them like they're utterly ubiquitous and have infested the online Pokemon space. It's by far the most bizarre, misaligned-with-reality bogeyman I have ever seen in any fanbase and I want to know just what exactly these people who propagate it are seeing that I'm not to keep hyping it up after all this time.

 

[Bloomer28]

It's a stereotype, so it's pretty hard to actually find it since it's so exaggerated.

 

[mertyville]

I have been wondering after the Dynamax Adventure mechanic being introduced and people complaining about it what could make legendary hunting actually fun?

Since Natures are introduced and people discovering about IVs, then having to catch the same legendary in a newer game because your old one isn't legal in the current format, legendary hunting has been feeling more like a waste of time than something earned.

This makes dissatisfying whether you have 100% catchrate or 3% catchrate, because you softreset because you want it in a dive ball or something but on the other hand it devalues the effort you went through to obtain it. You can't guarantie how many times you have to throw the ball, unless you use a Master Ball, that said Pokemon stays in the ball.

What I am saying is, I have no fun catching legendaries.

 

[Tenshi]

Tangela is way too late. Bellsprout gets no moves. Oddish comes in severely underleveled in Ilex Forest and bumps on the same issue of not having good STAB or coverage in a region that resists most of its offensive moves.

Chikorita is by far the best Johto Grass-type and it's really not even close.

This is incorrect for Crystal because leaf stone is available via Picknicker Gina in the route below Goldenrod City, weepinbell and gloom(which victreebell and vileplume are both better in spite of their worse movesets though they both get sleep powder and stun spore) both get access to Sludge Bomb which in general is a better STAB than grass(which isn't even worth saving a gloom for like level 44 for petal dance when it's just not that useful as a type in gen 2)

That being said Chikorita's biggest problem is over reliance on reflect + razor leaf until fairly late into johto it gets body slam which it uses throughout the rest of the game unless you use the EQ tm on it. If Chikorita got access to sleep powder and/or stun spore(also leech seed without breeding would be nice thanks pls) it would've been a much stronger mon but as is it's just okay

This is coming from someone who always uses chiko and is a meganium stan btw so no bias (snivy is infinitely worse btw, even with Coil it has absolutely garbage matchups in Unova and doesn't even ohko things with leaf blade after 2 coils)

 

[Bakugames]

Can someone please explain to where all these rabid hordes of genwunners are? I've been in the core Pokefandom in some form for what, 4-5 years? Been playing the series and watching videos about it for much longer than that? And throughout that time I have literally maybe seen an amount of genwunners/unironic genwunner posts countable on two hands, with every instance of this resulting in OP being clowned on. And yet to this day people talk about them like they're utterly ubiquitous and have infested the online Pokemon space. It's by far the most bizarre, misaligned-with-reality bogeyman I have ever seen in any fanbase and I want to know just what exactly these people who propagate it are seeing that I'm not to keep hyping it up after all this time.

outside pokemon forums/discussions, mainly. Genwunners do exist, but most of them dont interact with pokemon anymore because theyre... well... genwunners. They think the series sucks nowadays so they just dont play and dont talk about it anymore.

the hate gen 5 got wasnt exactly from genwunners, it was just from a hate of change. whenether your opinion of gen 5 is good or bad, one has to admit that most people who were talking constantly about gen 5 being the bottom of pokemon were mainly exaggerating and just didnt like the changes. which is honestly a fandom issue, rather than a genwunner issue

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

I feel like I might've brought this up somewhere in this subforum already but I'll take my chances

Can someone please explain to where all these rabid hordes of genwunners are? I've been in the core Pokefandom in some form for what, 4-5 years? Been playing the series and watching videos about it for much longer than that? And throughout that time I have literally maybe seen an amount of genwunners/unironic genwunner posts countable on two hands, with every instance of this resulting in OP being clowned on. And yet to this day people talk about them like they're utterly ubiquitous and have infested the online Pokemon space. It's by far the most bizarre, misaligned-with-reality bogeyman I have ever seen in any fanbase and I want to know just what exactly these people who propagate it are seeing that I'm not to keep hyping it up after all this time.

They went into hiding after getting blown up sky-high when BW1 turned out good.

Seriously, they're nothing but a meme nowadays, the real genwunners jumped ship a looooong time ago.

This is incorrect for Crystal because leaf stone is available via Picknicker Gina in the route below Goldenrod City,

Never talked anything about stone evos, Leaf Stone is actually the earliest one in Crystal. I think someone else mentioned them tho.

weepinbel and gloom both get access to Sludge Bomb which in general is a better STAB than grass(which isn't even worth saving a gloom for like level 44 for petal dance when it's just not that useful as a type in gen 2)

Sludge Bomb is late, Poison STAB is actually worse than Grass because Tentacool resists it and that means the western segment is a nightmare, and to make things worse, look at all of their movepools until Sludge Bomb.

There's just a ton of powders and very few actual damage options. For all its flaws, Chikorita does get the best Grass STAB in GSC early. Reflect is also a very good move. Body Slam by level-up is also a pretty sweet move. And assuming you're not giving it to something better, it does have EQ as an option, which the likes of Vileplume doesn't, though it doesn't really move the needle because of how late it is.

Chikorita is not the best Grass mon in Johto because it's outstanding, but because the competition is abysmal.

 

[Bloomer28]

They went into hiding after getting blown up sky-high when BW1 turned out good.

Seriously, they're nothing but a meme nowadays, the real genwunners jumped ship a looooong time ago.



Never talked anything about stone evos, Leaf Stone is actually the earliest one in Crystal. I think someone else mentioned them tho.



Sludge Bomb is late, Poison STAB is actually worse than Grass because Tentacool resists it and that means the western segment is a nightmare, and to make things worse, look at all of their movepools until Sludge Bomb.

There's just a ton of powders and very few actual damage options. For all its flaws, Chikorita does get the best Grass STAB in GSC early. Reflect is also a very good move. Body Slam by level-up is also a pretty sweet move. And assuming you're not giving it to something better, it does have EQ as an option, which the likes of Vileplume doesn't, though it doesn't really move the needle because of how late it is.

Chikorita is not the best Grass mon in Johto because it's outstanding, but because the competition is abysmal.

So this settles it, Chickorita is the best grass type becuase the competition is horrible, and still it's not worth picking up for another starter, since grass isn't really vital and has a disadavatage for the first 3 gyms, making it un-optimal compared to the other starters. Also, it can really dish out damage like a venusaur, making only good for tanking hits. Case closed.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

So this settles it, Chickorita is the best grass type becuase the competition is horrible, and still it's not worth picking up for another starter. Case closed.

I'd unironically pick Chikorita over Cyndaquil any day.

Ember until Lv. 31, then Flame Wheel!? Miss me with that.

 

[Bloomer28]

I'd unironically pick Chikorita over Cyndaquil any day.

Ember until Lv. 31, then Flame Wheel!? Miss me with that.

Then pick totodile.

Edit: My man Rocco got good moves fairly early on, gets his final evo at 30, and has good, well balanced stats.

 

[Siggu]

So this settles it, Chickorita is the best grass type becuase the competition is horrible, and still it's not worth picking up for another starter. Case closed.

It's cute in all three stages, though. Not better than the Totodile line (which is also cute in all stages, but performs better in battle), but it is over Cyndaquil's.

Although, if the chance existed in, say, a hypothetical Let's GO for Johto, I'd use both Chikorita AND Totodile, but not Cyndaquil.

 

[Tenshi]

Never talked anything about stone evos, Leaf Stone is actually the earliest one in Crystal. I think someone else mentioned them tho.



Sludge Bomb is late, Poison STAB is actually worse than Grass because Tentacool resists it and that means the western segment is a nightmare, and to make things worse, look at all of their movepools until Sludge Bomb.

There's just a ton of powders and very few actual damage options. For all its flaws, Chikorita does get the best Grass STAB in GSC early. Reflect is also a very good move. Body Slam by level-up is also a pretty sweet move. And assuming you're not giving it to something better, it does have EQ as an option, which the likes of Vileplume doesn't, though it doesn't really move the needle because of how late it is.

Chikorita is not the best Grass mon in Johto because it's outstanding, but because the competition is abysmal.

Sludge Bomb isn't late, it's mid-game. you can get it immediately after beating Morty(which I honestly recommend because the lake of rage trainers and team rocket members are more aptly leveled with your pokemon at that point of the game vs if you went west first) and even then Bellsprout at the very least has access to Growth to make vine whip less shit, it'll probably learn Acid around Morty or just before fighting team rocket. Funnily if you pick Chikorita and it's male then you can just breed it with Oddish and get Vileplume with razor leaf and sludge bomb so that's lol

As for the tentacools and tentacruels, most of them are wild battles so uh? even then I'm not sure on exact calcs but I wouldn't be surprised if a victreebel or vileplume outdamaged with sludge bomb(which hit tenta's weaker physical defense nfe) over razor leaf hitting its strong spd neutrally. No major trainer uses poison types in Johto bar Morty and Bayleef can't do shit to Morty either so? Sleep Powder alone is way more valuable than reflect in-game because incapacitating your opponent for a few turns is way easier to capitalize, especially on mons like Miltank that just gets destroyed once you status them. The only edge Meganium has over vileplume and victreebell is simply access to earthquake and that's really not much when it isn't STAB and not coming off of a particularly good attack stat, it doesn't get hard walled by most of Koga at least? yay not walled by the easiest e4 member o3o

As a whole poison STAB is significantly less resisted than grass is in Johto so that alone gives vileplume and victree an edge over fights that Chikorita would have to rely on no-stab body slam to beat.

 

[Bloomer28]

It's cute in all three stages, though. Not better than the Totodile line (which is also cute in all stages, but performs better in battle), but it is over Cyndaquil's.

Although, if the chance existed in, say, a hypothetical Let's GO for Johto, I'd use both Chikorita AND Totodile, but not Cyndaquil.

Chcikorita is cute but preforms horrible, Cyandaquill does ok but looks weird, and totodile is PERFECT.

 

[Sonikku A]

I feel like I might've brought this up somewhere in this subforum already but I'll take my chances

Can someone please explain to where all these rabid hordes of genwunners are? I've been in the core Pokefandom in some form for what, 4-5 years? Been playing the series and watching videos about it for much longer than that? And throughout that time I have literally maybe seen an amount of genwunners/unironic genwunner posts countable on two hands, with every instance of this resulting in OP being clowned on. And yet to this day people talk about them like they're utterly ubiquitous and have infested the online Pokemon space. It's by far the most bizarre, misaligned-with-reality bogeyman I have ever seen in any fanbase and I want to know just what exactly these people who propagate it are seeing that I'm not to keep hyping it up after all this time.

This reminds me of Melee Elitists
Outside Twitch, which is cancer for any smash game, I haven't really seen any. It's more ironic when you realize most of the top Melee players also played in tournaments for later games too

 

[Tenshi]

Also Cyndaquil gets access to a lot more TMs like Thunderpunch and Headbutt(even Dig to beat morty and mud slap to shit on Miltank) that gives it a really good standing against most mons(also being able to grind in the bug catching contest is always great for any mon that hits bugs super effectively, pinsirs scythers butterfrees and beedrills give a lot of exp), plus the early quilava evolution helps counter the weakness of ember until around ecruteak which is largely when you stop fighting an excessive amount of mons that's weak to fire

 

[Bakugames]

all these arguments of the best grass option in johto, but consider: sunflora is cute :)

 

[Tenshi]

all these arguments of the best grass option in johto, but consider: sunflora is cute :)

and you just need to get a sun stone from the bug catching contest and then breed it in order to get a move(which is just razor leaf lol) better than mega drain and hope you can 2hko everything without them revenge killing you cause you move about as fast as you'd expect a sunflower to move

sunkern is very cute tho yea ;w;

 

[Bloomer28]

Also Cyndaquil gets access to a lot more TMs like Thunderpunch and Headbutt(even Dig to beat morty!!) that gives it a really good standing against most mons(also being able to grind in the bug catching contest is always great for any mon that hits bugs super effectively, pinsirs scythers butterfrees and beedrills give a lot of exp), plus the early quilava evolution helps counter the weakness of ember until around ecruteak which is largely when you stop fighting an excessive amount of mons that's weak to fire

good point, his Tm moves let him wreck with good stats and a early and fire is good against alot of stuff, but I like REALLy early evolutions and my man totdile has all of them. All in all, chickorita is kinda yucky.

and you just need to get a sun stone from the bug catching contest and then breed it in order to get a move(which is just razor leaf lol) better than mega drain and hope you can 2hko everything without them revenge killing you cause you move about as fast as you'd expect a sunflower to move

sunkern is very cute tho yea ;w;

give him a smooch on the head

 

[Sonikku A]

Here's less an unpopular opinion, more an observation
No one seems to like Cyndaquil line at rest
And I mean, deflamed

No one realizes the "edit" to XYs model was a POSE change as well as adding fire

The issue is mainly pose, like literally 90% of other mons, not whether he's in flame
And he's technically a quadruped too. Show that in his physical attacks, like say, the Anime and Stadium
Both also don't rely only his flame gimmick, and I feel far too many fans were only into it DUE to the gimmick