RURW12 TTF, taking Aerodactyl.
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Project RU Research Week: Week 14 - Porygon-Z, Marowak-A & Reuniclus
- Thread starter Mac3
- Start date
rurw12 sparrow. screens
So after beginning to build a team with a different mon, I realized I could shoehorn in Aerodactyl, so I decided to participate this week (oh and Starmie’s there too).
One night when I was building a Seaking team, eifo told me to roll another shitmon with randpoke, so I got Greedent. I settled on bulky SD set with Gyro Ball to OHKO Togekiss and Noivern at +2. Sitrus+Cheek Pouch gives you half a health bar to play with, and you live stuff like Cobalion CC.
Realizing Greedent has potential to brute force its way through fat Waters and Steels, I thought CB Aerodactyl would be a cool way to take advantage of said mons being removed. A strong Stone Edge with that Speed tier meant it could be threatening in the late game. I opted for CB for the ability to score certain KOs, like against Togekiss and Zydog after Spikes.
Said Spikes I felt like should be provided by Roserade, a more consistent Water and Electric answer, who could provide some free switches with Sleep Powder.
To compress some roles, Colbur Rocks Golurk was next, as it provided a nice tool against Scarf Mienshao, meant Electrics couldn’t just Volt Switch for free, and let me play against Toxtricity more recklessly. Drain Punch was a liberty taken to be able to 1v1 Obstagoon and come out of the interaction with a decent amount of health.
I have Starmie due to the non boots Aerodactyl and later Noivern, and also because it’s just a respectable breaker in its own right. Hydro/Knot/Ice Beam hits a ton of the tier at a great Speed tier, and Rapid Spin not only supports, but also gives me another way to win in the late game.
No lie Scarf Noivern is mostly a band-aid fix for sweepers like Barbaracle, Cloyster, and Polteageist, but it comes in handy for other stuff like Scarf monke and Mienshao. Switcheroo is also super good for screwing over fatter set-up mons like Snorlax, or stealing items in matchups where you don’t need the Scarf.
CB AerodactylHonestly it’s not bad, it was always useful for pressuring Togekiss, Noivern, and Fires. Things like Milotic were not too safe from Stone Edge with hazards up, and Steels could be chipped by EQ. Offenses with stuff like Raikou/Zydog/Fires/Roserade were usually pretty fun for this mon. Steels were temporary roadblocks but usually not a big deal in the long run with EQ and support. Other sets like Roost and DD weren’t quite what I wanted, Roost Boots is kinda weak as fuck lmao and DD’s a less self-sufficient set, but probably still ok, just not what I wanted here. Rocks weakness and Noivern Draco doing a lot were usually the most consistent issues I ran into though.
LO StarmieVery fun mon, Starmie goes off against teams that can’t handle a fast Hydro Pump grouped with its coverage. Most offense cannot handle this well once it gets in, and Starmie definitely gets some openings against stuff like Cobalion, Steelix, Rhyperior, and Fires. I ran into a number of AV Reuniclus, but Spikes can help overwhelm that. Spin last slot definitely kind of pulls Starmie in two different directions, but it’s been decent. Longevity with 3 attacks spin is a pretty apparent flaw, so I think if Starmie is to be your main breaker, I’d try to fit Recover instead.
My laddering experience has been whack but overall I enjoy my team, probably just a me thing cus it’s still very weird and doesn’t have comfortable counterplay for some reasonably common things. Greedent’s hilarious, not too bad a shitmon, but I’d definitely swap it out if you wanted a real team. Also this team has inaccurate moves up the ass, a truly unfortunate case
One night when I was building a Seaking team, eifo told me to roll another shitmon with randpoke, so I got Greedent. I settled on bulky SD set with Gyro Ball to OHKO Togekiss and Noivern at +2. Sitrus+Cheek Pouch gives you half a health bar to play with, and you live stuff like Cobalion CC.
Realizing Greedent has potential to brute force its way through fat Waters and Steels, I thought CB Aerodactyl would be a cool way to take advantage of said mons being removed. A strong Stone Edge with that Speed tier meant it could be threatening in the late game. I opted for CB for the ability to score certain KOs, like against Togekiss and Zydog after Spikes.
Said Spikes I felt like should be provided by Roserade, a more consistent Water and Electric answer, who could provide some free switches with Sleep Powder.
To compress some roles, Colbur Rocks Golurk was next, as it provided a nice tool against Scarf Mienshao, meant Electrics couldn’t just Volt Switch for free, and let me play against Toxtricity more recklessly. Drain Punch was a liberty taken to be able to 1v1 Obstagoon and come out of the interaction with a decent amount of health.
I have Starmie due to the non boots Aerodactyl and later Noivern, and also because it’s just a respectable breaker in its own right. Hydro/Knot/Ice Beam hits a ton of the tier at a great Speed tier, and Rapid Spin not only supports, but also gives me another way to win in the late game.
No lie Scarf Noivern is mostly a band-aid fix for sweepers like Barbaracle, Cloyster, and Polteageist, but it comes in handy for other stuff like Scarf monke and Mienshao. Switcheroo is also super good for screwing over fatter set-up mons like Snorlax, or stealing items in matchups where you don’t need the Scarf.
CB Aerodactyl
LO Starmie
My laddering experience has been whack but overall I enjoy my team, probably just a me thing cus it’s still very weird and doesn’t have comfortable counterplay for some reasonably common things. Greedent’s hilarious, not too bad a shitmon, but I’d definitely swap it out if you wanted a real team. Also this team has inaccurate moves up the ass, a truly unfortunate case
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1277861970 Pretty good showcase of both of these mon’s capabilities, Starmie basically forces a KO and then puts Dhelmise into Roserade range, Aerodactyl takes a Scarf Tri Attack and cleans up at the end
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1278689693 Aerodactyl gets me some easy momentum early on, as it safely 1v1s Gardevoir and abuses the lack of a Flying resist, forcing Golurk to take damage in order to revenge kill it.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1278641409 Aerodactyl gets an early kill against a greedy Togekiss early, opening up Noivern later. Starmie chunks Coba pretty hard and gets off a spin+damage on Zarude to put it into Golurk kill range. If I played the late game differently I could’ve still won, but the replay still shows off the two mons pretty well.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1278074300 Starmie keeps off rocks and helps beat down Reuniclus, while Aerodactyl picks up slack in the late game
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1278012348 Bonus Greedent replay, this game was dumb and hilarious
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1278689693 Aerodactyl gets me some easy momentum early on, as it safely 1v1s Gardevoir and abuses the lack of a Flying resist, forcing Golurk to take damage in order to revenge kill it.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1278641409 Aerodactyl gets an early kill against a greedy Togekiss early, opening up Noivern later. Starmie chunks Coba pretty hard and gets off a spin+damage on Zarude to put it into Golurk kill range. If I played the late game differently I could’ve still won, but the replay still shows off the two mons pretty well.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1278074300 Starmie keeps off rocks and helps beat down Reuniclus, while Aerodactyl picks up slack in the late game
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1278012348 Bonus Greedent replay, this game was dumb and hilarious
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Welp, here’s my input on Aero and LO Starmie:
LO Starmie
Excellent offensive mon, it shreds slower teams as well as some that can’t take LO Hydro Pumps well. While being weak to the omnipresent Zarude is a hindrance, even Zarude has to be careful, as Ice Beam smacks it. Its coverage is also notable, as it can hit most of the tier for supereffective damage, such as the aforementioned Ice Beam to hit Grasses and Thunderbolt for Suicune, Sharpedo and Cloyster. Albeit, it invites Zarude and special walls in unless you predict them and you can’t really run Spin on it, and it has a pretty bad case of 4MSS as you want to run Hydro/Psychic/Ice Beam/Flip Turn/Thunderbolt/Spin/Recover all at once, but I’d say the pros outweigh the cons. All in all, I’d rate this variant of Starmie a 7/10.
Replays (don’t mind the low ladder, I accidentally slacked off a bit and had to rush to find good ones):
Replay 1
Replay 2
Replay 3
Aerodactyl
Surprisingly better than I thought. Its STABs hit a good amount of the meta for decent damage, and it’s pretty fast as well, speed tying with Crobat. CB is probably its best set, as SE, Dual Wingbeat, and EQ is all it needs, making the fourth moveslot pretty damn flexible. On the downside, it’s terribly frail and difficult to get in without pivoting, and Rock/Flying is not a good defensive typing, and it’s also kinda weak without a boost. Anyway, I tried two different sets for this mon, a DD set and CB. I quickly came to the conclusion that CB is the better option, because of how frail Aero is, it’s unlikely to get a DD up before being forced out or killed. Rating: 7/10, fun mon to use, that I can say for sure.
Replays (Terribly sorry for only one replay, will edit more later):
Replay 1
LO Starmie
Excellent offensive mon, it shreds slower teams as well as some that can’t take LO Hydro Pumps well. While being weak to the omnipresent Zarude is a hindrance, even Zarude has to be careful, as Ice Beam smacks it. Its coverage is also notable, as it can hit most of the tier for supereffective damage, such as the aforementioned Ice Beam to hit Grasses and Thunderbolt for Suicune, Sharpedo and Cloyster. Albeit, it invites Zarude and special walls in unless you predict them and you can’t really run Spin on it, and it has a pretty bad case of 4MSS as you want to run Hydro/Psychic/Ice Beam/Flip Turn/Thunderbolt/Spin/Recover all at once, but I’d say the pros outweigh the cons. All in all, I’d rate this variant of Starmie a 7/10.
Replays (don’t mind the low ladder, I accidentally slacked off a bit and had to rush to find good ones):
Replay 1
Replay 2
Replay 3
Aerodactyl
Surprisingly better than I thought. Its STABs hit a good amount of the meta for decent damage, and it’s pretty fast as well, speed tying with Crobat. CB is probably its best set, as SE, Dual Wingbeat, and EQ is all it needs, making the fourth moveslot pretty damn flexible. On the downside, it’s terribly frail and difficult to get in without pivoting, and Rock/Flying is not a good defensive typing, and it’s also kinda weak without a boost. Anyway, I tried two different sets for this mon, a DD set and CB. I quickly came to the conclusion that CB is the better option, because of how frail Aero is, it’s unlikely to get a DD up before being forced out or killed. Rating: 7/10, fun mon to use, that I can say for sure.
Replays (Terribly sorry for only one replay, will edit more later):
Replay 1
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(link is here!)For this team, I went off of Jmash's idea of Roserade providing Spikes support, and instead of opting for DD or CB (a set which I kind of wanted to try but Genshin Impact has been eating all my time), I decided to go with the meme pick: Hone Claws. Since Aerodactyl is already among the fastest unboosted 'mons in the tier, I figured that I'd rather patch up the issue of its inaccurate STAB moves. Even unboosted, Aerodactyl's blazing Speed allows it to act as a capable revenge killer, and not having to worry too much about Stealth Rock helps dramatically as well. Switching it in recklessly isn't an option with its poor bulk, unless you're already three layers deep in your opponent's head or something. Overall, while it needs things like Steel-types and Rhyperior to be weakened before it can sweep, it's a fun 'mon with great Speed and good coverage for the current meta.
Posting this before I forget entirely lol
The team
Obviously, Starmie is a given. Decided on Surf / Grass Knot / Ice Beam as coverage, leaving a slot open for utility. I had Spin here initially, but then it got worn down super quick (and I have hazard removal elsewhere), so I messed around with various last slot moves (and items), but we'll cover that.
Surf over Hydro because fuck Hydro, Grass Knot and Ice Beam for common Water switchins (literally every other Water in the tier and Zarude). Psyshock is good for...immediately threatening Roserade, I guess, but not much else and Tbolt is kinda trash because it only really hits opposing Mie harder than Grass Knot (unless you want to take in account Mantine, lol).
I slapped on Raikou next because it appreciates Starmie removing Grounds easily for Elec STAB spam. Also keeps Toge in check (unless you run into the ladder favorite Scarf Kiss and get unlucky) while getting a easy double switch on it to answer the inevitable Ground...unless they don't have a Ground, at which point you just sort of spam Tbolt/Vswitch for easy damage or momentum, depending on how threatening the answer is.
Togekiss is up there with Zarude as the most splashable glue mon in the tier, checking or outright countering like half the tier. I considered Extrasensory in the last slot (because fuck Toxtricity), but it doesn't hit any other Toge switchins and is thus a dead slot in non Toxt matchups. I went with Wish in the end to help keep my answers to their Toge checks healthy.
Suicune is probably the weakest member of the team, honestly, and I've only kept it here because I ran VinCune for the longest time (and enjoyed making opponents suffer). Haven't really thought too hard on what to switch this too (and I'm open to suggestions but this isn't RMT lmao) and I do like it a lot when you have a good matchup with it. I guess it is a decent interim switch to Alolawak and Zygarde to alleviate pressure on Incineroar and Togekiss, respectively, but getting forced out by the most common mon in the tier (FAT THIN MONKE) blows in terms of making progress (even if Toge is here to sit on it forever). Oh, and Roar because else CM Reun 6-0's you lol.
Steelix sits on Toxtricity quite well with Wish Support from Toge. Gets Rocks up, Toxics defoggers and other switchins, stone walls non Flamethrower Toge (or TrickScarf...) and helps with pivot mind games against Raikou. Not much to say tbh.
Finally, Incineroar. Checks Chandelure and nearly every Fire in the tier at least once (if Wishpassing isn't factored in). Can also Toxic Milo if they want to try and catch Raikou with their own Toxic (though this only works out if you don't need Incin and they don't have a cleric). Knock Off is busted af and Parting Shot gives a relatively free switch to whatever is needed).
Tried various things (Darm over Incin, CM Rest RoarCune(TRASH), Ebelt Mie with Spin, Specs Mie with Trick and some other things I'm probably forgetting), but dropped/changed em for various reasons (but gotta wrap it up).
LO Starmie is really good, honestly. Threatening the usual answers to Waters with ease is amazing for mons that enjoy their removal and puts a lot of pressure on the opponent as they try to pivot into their faster check. The only problem matchups for it are generic fat special sponges that aren't hit SE (think Umbreon, Registeel, AV Reuniclus etc), but these mons are generally passive enough (bar Reun) for teammates to capitalize on. Maybe you could even run Flip Turn as the last slot.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1281965358
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1281974340
Unfortunately (thanks FSG), I assumed I could download replays locally first, upload them later.
No, you can't.
So the better replays are MIA, deadline's approaching and I got swept by a Electric Terrain team earlier. I could go and try to get some last minute replays, but I want to keep some of my sanity (and ego), so this will have to do.
SWSH still suck and so will the DP remakes
The team
Obviously, Starmie is a given. Decided on Surf / Grass Knot / Ice Beam as coverage, leaving a slot open for utility. I had Spin here initially, but then it got worn down super quick (and I have hazard removal elsewhere), so I messed around with various last slot moves (and items), but we'll cover that.
Surf over Hydro because fuck Hydro, Grass Knot and Ice Beam for common Water switchins (literally every other Water in the tier and Zarude). Psyshock is good for...immediately threatening Roserade, I guess, but not much else and Tbolt is kinda trash because it only really hits opposing Mie harder than Grass Knot (unless you want to take in account Mantine, lol).
I slapped on Raikou next because it appreciates Starmie removing Grounds easily for Elec STAB spam. Also keeps Toge in check (unless you run into the ladder favorite Scarf Kiss and get unlucky) while getting a easy double switch on it to answer the inevitable Ground...unless they don't have a Ground, at which point you just sort of spam Tbolt/Vswitch for easy damage or momentum, depending on how threatening the answer is.
Togekiss is up there with Zarude as the most splashable glue mon in the tier, checking or outright countering like half the tier. I considered Extrasensory in the last slot (because fuck Toxtricity), but it doesn't hit any other Toge switchins and is thus a dead slot in non Toxt matchups. I went with Wish in the end to help keep my answers to their Toge checks healthy.
Suicune is probably the weakest member of the team, honestly, and I've only kept it here because I ran VinCune for the longest time (and enjoyed making opponents suffer). Haven't really thought too hard on what to switch this too (and I'm open to suggestions but this isn't RMT lmao) and I do like it a lot when you have a good matchup with it. I guess it is a decent interim switch to Alolawak and Zygarde to alleviate pressure on Incineroar and Togekiss, respectively, but getting forced out by the most common mon in the tier (FAT THIN MONKE) blows in terms of making progress (even if Toge is here to sit on it forever). Oh, and Roar because else CM Reun 6-0's you lol.
Steelix sits on Toxtricity quite well with Wish Support from Toge. Gets Rocks up, Toxics defoggers and other switchins, stone walls non Flamethrower Toge (or TrickScarf...) and helps with pivot mind games against Raikou. Not much to say tbh.
Finally, Incineroar. Checks Chandelure and nearly every Fire in the tier at least once (if Wishpassing isn't factored in). Can also Toxic Milo if they want to try and catch Raikou with their own Toxic (though this only works out if you don't need Incin and they don't have a cleric). Knock Off is busted af and Parting Shot gives a relatively free switch to whatever is needed).
Tried various things (Darm over Incin, CM Rest RoarCune(TRASH), Ebelt Mie with Spin, Specs Mie with Trick and some other things I'm probably forgetting), but dropped/changed em for various reasons (but gotta wrap it up).
LO Starmie is really good, honestly. Threatening the usual answers to Waters with ease is amazing for mons that enjoy their removal and puts a lot of pressure on the opponent as they try to pivot into their faster check. The only problem matchups for it are generic fat special sponges that aren't hit SE (think Umbreon, Registeel, AV Reuniclus etc), but these mons are generally passive enough (bar Reun) for teammates to capitalize on. Maybe you could even run Flip Turn as the last slot.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1281965358
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1281974340
Unfortunately (thanks FSG), I assumed I could download replays locally first, upload them later.
No, you can't.
So the better replays are MIA, deadline's approaching and I got swept by a Electric Terrain team earlier. I could go and try to get some last minute replays, but I want to keep some of my sanity (and ego), so this will have to do.
https://pokepast.es/7201602db612a34c DD Life Orb Aero is just the best Aero set in my view. DD lets it sweep offensive teams or weaken defensive mons such as Milotic for Sharpedo and Cobalion for Zarude. Endure Custap Metagross is an amazing tech that always puts in work. It is incredibly consistent. The same goes for Sash Heracross, which in my view is currently the best Spikes setter in the tier. Guts is the best ability on it, as it often gets status inflicted. For instance, it helps with the Suicune match up. Mimikyu + Sharpedo is a tried and true offensive core. They're great at taking advantage of Spikes, and in conjunction with endure Custap Meta they give the team a strong match up vs all kinds of cheesy strategies, be it Screens, Rain, Sun or TR. Scarf Rock Slide Zarude rounds out the team nicely. Rock Slide is primarily for Togekiss, although it also does more to Noivern, Crobat and fire types such as Salazzle.
I tried boots Aero, but it was just too weak. DD Life Orb was the most consistent set in my opinion by far and away. It lets it OHKO Togekiss and does way more to mons like Coba, Meta, Rhyp, Milo, Cune and so on. Aero was a pretty cool mon in my experience, due to its great speed tier and decent coverage. Its defensive typing is really cool vs e.g. Togekiss. Life Orb gives it the extra oomph it so badly needs, while DD lets it break fat waters for Sharpedo or outright sweep. Moreover, it would often weaken Coba for Zarude/Shark to win. I tried to hit number one on the ladder on this rurw alt, but only got to #4 before tilting quite a bit. I did hit #1 with the same team on a different alt tho. Under are some replays that show why I think DD LO is the way to go:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1280698326-5olhdodx2507s5t3nct6lzjih99u64opw
DD Aero sweeps sun.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1279656050-mfncwi6gmaw31g0odour5e3r918ew77pw
DD Aero sweeps Seismitoad offense.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1279261983-uz252vvkofv82eptvu928jdncc38vlqpw
DD Aero sweeps a Regi/Milo build.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1281744560-pgxak1mdedfr5nw69k693fv2kxolh2gpw
DD Aero sweeps another Milotic offense.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1281745981-z0udnuwhyvjgiln5nop2sy73td3h5a7pw
DD Aero sets up on BD Slurpuff and kills all six.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1282350614-0novfarz44g2yqkr4487ep8kgyl3ocvpw
DD Aero kills Xurk, Toge, Meta, Gastro and Darm, letting Zarude/MMQ pick up the W.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1282348943-3bzg6nz8zwsb6qg1a5hct5yw6d0lmygpw
Aero kills Zone and Coba, resulting in a forfeit. It had the potential to kill the remaining 4.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1280656082-68bzj246mnm813p1yxdchih5a9r1xfzpw
Aero switches into Obstagoon and kills Volc and Coba, letting Zarude/Shark win.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1280423171-itldcrv93xauvabgd6r7qfl31h83k68pw
Aero switches into Vern and kills Coba, letting Zarude/Shark win.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1278564338-g3cjx2d1vwig1cjdlf4i55bwt74kux5pw
DD Aero powers through Gastro, then kills Chandy, effectively winning the game.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1281757886-cz34erw14llnn9w308yf7zu61fmv265pw
Aero kills Raikou and Togekiss, ending in a forfeit.
Finally, some sadness. Aero's moves can miss.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1281750565-6yqr5xqtn3hb12mv7i1y3cngk3sjr5kpw
I tried boots Aero, but it was just too weak. DD Life Orb was the most consistent set in my opinion by far and away. It lets it OHKO Togekiss and does way more to mons like Coba, Meta, Rhyp, Milo, Cune and so on. Aero was a pretty cool mon in my experience, due to its great speed tier and decent coverage. Its defensive typing is really cool vs e.g. Togekiss. Life Orb gives it the extra oomph it so badly needs, while DD lets it break fat waters for Sharpedo or outright sweep. Moreover, it would often weaken Coba for Zarude/Shark to win. I tried to hit number one on the ladder on this rurw alt, but only got to #4 before tilting quite a bit. I did hit #1 with the same team on a different alt tho. Under are some replays that show why I think DD LO is the way to go:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1280698326-5olhdodx2507s5t3nct6lzjih99u64opw
DD Aero sweeps sun.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1279656050-mfncwi6gmaw31g0odour5e3r918ew77pw
DD Aero sweeps Seismitoad offense.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1279261983-uz252vvkofv82eptvu928jdncc38vlqpw
DD Aero sweeps a Regi/Milo build.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1281744560-pgxak1mdedfr5nw69k693fv2kxolh2gpw
DD Aero sweeps another Milotic offense.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1281745981-z0udnuwhyvjgiln5nop2sy73td3h5a7pw
DD Aero sets up on BD Slurpuff and kills all six.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1282350614-0novfarz44g2yqkr4487ep8kgyl3ocvpw
DD Aero kills Xurk, Toge, Meta, Gastro and Darm, letting Zarude/MMQ pick up the W.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1282348943-3bzg6nz8zwsb6qg1a5hct5yw6d0lmygpw
Aero kills Zone and Coba, resulting in a forfeit. It had the potential to kill the remaining 4.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1280656082-68bzj246mnm813p1yxdchih5a9r1xfzpw
Aero switches into Obstagoon and kills Volc and Coba, letting Zarude/Shark win.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1280423171-itldcrv93xauvabgd6r7qfl31h83k68pw
Aero switches into Vern and kills Coba, letting Zarude/Shark win.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1278564338-g3cjx2d1vwig1cjdlf4i55bwt74kux5pw
DD Aero powers through Gastro, then kills Chandy, effectively winning the game.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1281757886-cz34erw14llnn9w308yf7zu61fmv265pw
Aero kills Raikou and Togekiss, ending in a forfeit.
Finally, some sadness. Aero's moves can miss.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1281750565-6yqr5xqtn3hb12mv7i1y3cngk3sjr5kpw
Congratulations to eifo for winning this week's Research Week!
Aerodactyl was tested by quite a few people. eifo's experience with Aero was mixed to start with from what I understood. He first used boots but felt it didn't do any damage and was just too weak. However, after testing out DD LO he had much better experiences with it. Being able to KO Togekiss and also break waters and steels for Sharpedo and Zarude was hugely beneficial, even at the expense of stealth rock immunity. FALCOWNPAUNCH! used Hone Claws instead of DD, deciding to boost the accuracy of Stone Edge and DWB instead of raising Aero's speed. He found that Aero's coverage was great for the current meta, although its bulk was a bit of a letdown. sovietsympathizer also used a different set to the others, opting to use CB as well as DD. They thought that CB was the better option, as Aero's bulk made it hard to set-up and having the extra moveslot was also a positive according to them. Lastly, Jmash also used CB Aero, and also thought it matched up well against the current meta. Pairing Aero with spikes made it so even Milotic was a shaky switch in to it, while steels were easily chipped by eq.
We didn't get any comments on screens, but I've used it a bunch so I'll briefly go over my thoughts on it. There's a lot of viable abusers between the shell smashers (Barbaracle, Cloyster, Omastar, and Polteageist) and the belly drumers (Slurpuff and Linoone) as well as other options such as QCQD Slowbro and DD dragons. Some resistances that are needed are an electric- and ground-type switch in, as well as a fighting, resist. Many of the offensive volturn teams just don't do enough immediate damage to the sweepers under screens, which makes it a very hard match-up for offensive volturn teams, of which there are a lot rn.
Lastly, LO Starmie was tested by a few people. Ningildo used Starmie and realized that it does well against many of the common cores that are spammed on ladder, however it does have a few tough matchups, specifically against fat sponges such as AV Reuniclus, Registeel, and Umbreon. sovietsympathizer said much of the same, however also commented on Starmie's 4MSS, as you want to run all of STABs/Tbolt/Ice Beam/Recover/Flip Turn. Jmash used spikes with it, which helped it overcome the special sponges previously mentioned, however also commented that its longetivity without recover is pretty short, so said that if it's your main breaker, recover is pretty necessary.
Moving on, this week's selection will be:
Cresselia's unique defensive stats and typing allow it to be an interesting mon in this meta that is worth exploring. Due to its ridiculous defense stat its able to be a Zygarde switch-in without being a resist, while it is also able to win the cm war against Slowbro and Reuniclus. It can also utilize a plain defensive set that can possibly outlast the opposing team, especially coupled with something that chips or forces a knock on steel types.
Bit of a left-field shout but I thought that CB Mudsdale sounded like an interesting set to explore. It has all the coverage it might need between CC, Rock Slide, and Heavy Slam, while also being able to choose utility options like Toxic and Stealth Rocks. Being a ground type it also has some utility in making 5050s with elecs and also being able to pivot in on Cobalion relatively easily, unlike Rhyperior.
Spikes are a pretty common sight on most teams as Golisopod, Roserade, and Heracross fit on a bunch of different teams. Toxic Spikes are much less explored in spite of the general absence of grounded poisons. There are multiple different mons that can run tspikes, Weezing-g, Dragalge, and Roserade to name a few.
In order to participate you must do the following:
Aerodactyl was tested by quite a few people. eifo's experience with Aero was mixed to start with from what I understood. He first used boots but felt it didn't do any damage and was just too weak. However, after testing out DD LO he had much better experiences with it. Being able to KO Togekiss and also break waters and steels for Sharpedo and Zarude was hugely beneficial, even at the expense of stealth rock immunity. FALCOWNPAUNCH! used Hone Claws instead of DD, deciding to boost the accuracy of Stone Edge and DWB instead of raising Aero's speed. He found that Aero's coverage was great for the current meta, although its bulk was a bit of a letdown. sovietsympathizer also used a different set to the others, opting to use CB as well as DD. They thought that CB was the better option, as Aero's bulk made it hard to set-up and having the extra moveslot was also a positive according to them. Lastly, Jmash also used CB Aero, and also thought it matched up well against the current meta. Pairing Aero with spikes made it so even Milotic was a shaky switch in to it, while steels were easily chipped by eq.
We didn't get any comments on screens, but I've used it a bunch so I'll briefly go over my thoughts on it. There's a lot of viable abusers between the shell smashers (Barbaracle, Cloyster, Omastar, and Polteageist) and the belly drumers (Slurpuff and Linoone) as well as other options such as QCQD Slowbro and DD dragons. Some resistances that are needed are an electric- and ground-type switch in, as well as a fighting, resist. Many of the offensive volturn teams just don't do enough immediate damage to the sweepers under screens, which makes it a very hard match-up for offensive volturn teams, of which there are a lot rn.
Lastly, LO Starmie was tested by a few people. Ningildo used Starmie and realized that it does well against many of the common cores that are spammed on ladder, however it does have a few tough matchups, specifically against fat sponges such as AV Reuniclus, Registeel, and Umbreon. sovietsympathizer said much of the same, however also commented on Starmie's 4MSS, as you want to run all of STABs/Tbolt/Ice Beam/Recover/Flip Turn. Jmash used spikes with it, which helped it overcome the special sponges previously mentioned, however also commented that its longetivity without recover is pretty short, so said that if it's your main breaker, recover is pretty necessary.
Moving on, this week's selection will be:
Cresselia @ [insert]
Ability: [insert]
EVs: [insert]
[insert] Nature
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-
-
-
Ability: [insert]
EVs: [insert]
[insert] Nature
-
-
-
-
Cresselia's unique defensive stats and typing allow it to be an interesting mon in this meta that is worth exploring. Due to its ridiculous defense stat its able to be a Zygarde switch-in without being a resist, while it is also able to win the cm war against Slowbro and Reuniclus. It can also utilize a plain defensive set that can possibly outlast the opposing team, especially coupled with something that chips or forces a knock on steel types.
Mudsdale @ Choice Band
Ability: [insert]
EVs: [insert]
[insert] Nature
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-
-
-
Ability: [insert]
EVs: [insert]
[insert] Nature
-
-
-
-
Bit of a left-field shout but I thought that CB Mudsdale sounded like an interesting set to explore. It has all the coverage it might need between CC, Rock Slide, and Heavy Slam, while also being able to choose utility options like Toxic and Stealth Rocks. Being a ground type it also has some utility in making 5050s with elecs and also being able to pivot in on Cobalion relatively easily, unlike Rhyperior.
[insert] @ [insert]
Ability: [insert]
EVs: [insert]
[insert] Nature
- Toxic Spikes
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-
-
Ability: [insert]
EVs: [insert]
[insert] Nature
- Toxic Spikes
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-
-
Spikes are a pretty common sight on most teams as Golisopod, Roserade, and Heracross fit on a bunch of different teams. Toxic Spikes are much less explored in spite of the general absence of grounded poisons. There are multiple different mons that can run tspikes, Weezing-g, Dragalge, and Roserade to name a few.
In order to participate you must do the following:
- Post here with a fresh RW alt (such as RURW13 mac3) and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
- Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched.
- Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using, participate in the discussion!
- Post replays of this Pokemon in action against other teams - don't just tell us, show us
- The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the highest ladder ranking on the Pokemon Showdown RU ladder with their RW alt at the time the challenge ends. Winners will also receive a permanent spot in this thread's Hall of Fame.
- Ladder will be checked Sunday the 21st, 9pm GMT +1
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DrivesWashTom Sorry for not posting last week it was hectic and I just forgot about it.
Takin Cres and Cb Mudstale
Takin Cres and Cb Mudstale
RURW13 TTF, taking CB Mudsdale.
Yo, so I actually managed to top the ladder this week. Here's a few words on my experience with using Tspikes mons:
Tried rose for a bit, but gave up on it. Didn't enjoy using it, and moved on to Dragalge.
This is how version one of my Dragalge team looked. I tried to make a form of volt turn with BootsDrag, Boots Darm, Scarf Mienshao and CB Rhyp. It worked in some instances, but I lost at preview to Suicune and generally hated my match up vs bulky waters. I therefore ended up moving on from this build. I got off to a pretty rocky start with this build and had a pretty bad w/l of 18/7 during my first 25 games, but Tspikes put in some nice work every now and again.
Tspikes does well in a win vs stall: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1283217063-pd53aph5b03ieyn85r40p4vipq1b8nfpw
Tspikes plays an instrumental role in win vs webs: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1283221014-0ezv7mlpve00ivbp709ggwuc4q4a3zapw
Replay showing how the team autoloses to Suicune. They missplay/missclick Sleep Talk and lose because of it: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1283224130-q53sei0xalx0rmtjf7hrnay3ysi2urfpw
I then removed CB Rhyp and added an offensive lefties Seismitoad. However, I didn't really like the Togekiss match up, as Flamethrower has 20% chance to burn Zong, Drag/Toad get flinched and Darm/Shao only do about 60-70% with Flare Blitz and Stone Edge, respectively.
Win vs my own team that I made last week: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1283233740-5ewm3fef4eu2t8vgqrl95lzahncij69pw
Moving on, I decided that I wanted to leave some of the more passive mons behind. I wasn't digging how passive mons such as Tang and Zong where, and I didn't like how little Mienshao did defensively. All too often i would be forced to rely too much on Zong/Tang defensively, while Darm/Shao/Drag would have to do everything offensively. It would be difficult for me to make progress, while at the same time my defensive backbone as only so-so. Due to this, I decided to move on and build a bulky offense in which every mon could retain the offensive momentum that is generated by their partners. This was the result:
I kept Darm and Drag, while I made Toad the rocker now that I dropped Zong. Sub CM Raikou was added to take advantage of Tspikes support, which puts on pressure vs some of its checks such as Snorlax, Zarude, Seismitoad and Gastrodon. The bulky water mu is fine between Drag, Kou and Toad, while Goli and Toad both switch into Zyg and KO it with First Impression and Ice Punch, respectively. NP Togekiss is great on any given team in this meta. It is both a decent breaker, as well as a solid defensive check to mons such as Zarude, Noivern and Golisopod. Opposing Togekiss is handled well by Raikou, while Seismitoad can remove its item and Darm can pressure it with Blitz. Darm also invites in bulky waters, which it can uturn on into Raikou. This team served me well for my last 25 games. I probably lost 2 or 3 games and won the rest of them. In the end, I managed to top the ladder with it. Below are some replays:
SubCM Raikou defeats balance with the help of Tspikes:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1283846225-az81xdmi0abcjgml1akevqw6ywoqkw0pw
SubCM Raikou wins vs Snorlax Balance. Dragalge would have made this easier by setting Tspikes, but got frozen: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1284268960-67lxtkah23vpsqhev4appeado4e85oypw
Tspikes and Raikou are yet again central in a win vs an opposing Togekiss/Raikou build:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1284601173-70fm1m2b48zv49a273ybl4tbmwlcib0pw
Dragalge wins the game vs my team from last week. Tspikes play a key role, while it living and killing Aero on last turn allows me to win: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1284914672-dnwrw12p0afjl135cp6896eqb7b06wdpw
For anyone wondering, this is part of why I run max HP Dragalge:
252 Atk Life Orb Aerodactyl Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dragalge: 268-317 (80.2 - 94.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Aerodactyl Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragalge: 268-317 (98.8 - 116.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
Tspikes + Togekiss weaken Raikous checks, so that it can win yet again:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1285235173-tic4vaok69se06fegy9c4c6hc7453kwpw
Tspikes weakens Milo and Mimikyu, while Togekiss weakens Lix and Toxt, allowing for Raikou to sweep once more:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1285619392-hpwt1dvul2yih2rmx5bvhlwnp48m4h6pw
Tspikes weakens Goodra and lets Raikou sweep the whole team:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1285736270-2rksxkvmrzi1l0r8otne9nay0x4t5q2pw
Literally the same happens here. Tspikes + Kou 6-0s.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1286454874-puvt1donfibah2prgyx88kafz3hidijpw
Raikou somehow wins vs a Golurk team. Drag sets tspikes and weakens Coba. It should have gotten off a Flip Turn as well, but got flinched by Iron Head, which made the game a bit more challenging.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1286876968-1xeqnh0qjz1mdlarvcfwz3w1hmy00ifpw
There were also a few games like this, where Drag simply didn't do anything: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1286883056-qj3c900ibpltew9aji3da4521zp2xunpw
All in all, I would say the combo of SUBCM Raikou and Dragalge really impressed me. I did not like Dragalge that much without SubCM Kou, nor did I like Roserade. I also tried one game of Weezing, but didn't like building with it. I do think there is a place int his meta for Dragalge, but I'm not so sure about the other Tspikers. Weezing is generally awkward in my view, while Rose is pretty mediocre on its own and probably better off running Spikes and dropping Tspikes.
Import of the final team:
https://pokepast.es/0684b102f37928ac
Ladder peak:
This is how version one of my Dragalge team looked. I tried to make a form of volt turn with BootsDrag, Boots Darm, Scarf Mienshao and CB Rhyp. It worked in some instances, but I lost at preview to Suicune and generally hated my match up vs bulky waters. I therefore ended up moving on from this build. I got off to a pretty rocky start with this build and had a pretty bad w/l of 18/7 during my first 25 games, but Tspikes put in some nice work every now and again.
Tspikes does well in a win vs stall: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1283217063-pd53aph5b03ieyn85r40p4vipq1b8nfpw
Tspikes plays an instrumental role in win vs webs: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1283221014-0ezv7mlpve00ivbp709ggwuc4q4a3zapw
Replay showing how the team autoloses to Suicune. They missplay/missclick Sleep Talk and lose because of it: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1283224130-q53sei0xalx0rmtjf7hrnay3ysi2urfpw
I then removed CB Rhyp and added an offensive lefties Seismitoad. However, I didn't really like the Togekiss match up, as Flamethrower has 20% chance to burn Zong, Drag/Toad get flinched and Darm/Shao only do about 60-70% with Flare Blitz and Stone Edge, respectively.
Win vs my own team that I made last week: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1283233740-5ewm3fef4eu2t8vgqrl95lzahncij69pw
Moving on, I decided that I wanted to leave some of the more passive mons behind. I wasn't digging how passive mons such as Tang and Zong where, and I didn't like how little Mienshao did defensively. All too often i would be forced to rely too much on Zong/Tang defensively, while Darm/Shao/Drag would have to do everything offensively. It would be difficult for me to make progress, while at the same time my defensive backbone as only so-so. Due to this, I decided to move on and build a bulky offense in which every mon could retain the offensive momentum that is generated by their partners. This was the result:
I kept Darm and Drag, while I made Toad the rocker now that I dropped Zong. Sub CM Raikou was added to take advantage of Tspikes support, which puts on pressure vs some of its checks such as Snorlax, Zarude, Seismitoad and Gastrodon. The bulky water mu is fine between Drag, Kou and Toad, while Goli and Toad both switch into Zyg and KO it with First Impression and Ice Punch, respectively. NP Togekiss is great on any given team in this meta. It is both a decent breaker, as well as a solid defensive check to mons such as Zarude, Noivern and Golisopod. Opposing Togekiss is handled well by Raikou, while Seismitoad can remove its item and Darm can pressure it with Blitz. Darm also invites in bulky waters, which it can uturn on into Raikou. This team served me well for my last 25 games. I probably lost 2 or 3 games and won the rest of them. In the end, I managed to top the ladder with it. Below are some replays:
SubCM Raikou defeats balance with the help of Tspikes:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1283846225-az81xdmi0abcjgml1akevqw6ywoqkw0pw
SubCM Raikou wins vs Snorlax Balance. Dragalge would have made this easier by setting Tspikes, but got frozen: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1284268960-67lxtkah23vpsqhev4appeado4e85oypw
Tspikes and Raikou are yet again central in a win vs an opposing Togekiss/Raikou build:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1284601173-70fm1m2b48zv49a273ybl4tbmwlcib0pw
Dragalge wins the game vs my team from last week. Tspikes play a key role, while it living and killing Aero on last turn allows me to win: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1284914672-dnwrw12p0afjl135cp6896eqb7b06wdpw
For anyone wondering, this is part of why I run max HP Dragalge:
252 Atk Life Orb Aerodactyl Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dragalge: 268-317 (80.2 - 94.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Aerodactyl Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragalge: 268-317 (98.8 - 116.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
Tspikes + Togekiss weaken Raikous checks, so that it can win yet again:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1285235173-tic4vaok69se06fegy9c4c6hc7453kwpw
Tspikes weakens Milo and Mimikyu, while Togekiss weakens Lix and Toxt, allowing for Raikou to sweep once more:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1285619392-hpwt1dvul2yih2rmx5bvhlwnp48m4h6pw
Tspikes weakens Goodra and lets Raikou sweep the whole team:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1285736270-2rksxkvmrzi1l0r8otne9nay0x4t5q2pw
Literally the same happens here. Tspikes + Kou 6-0s.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1286454874-puvt1donfibah2prgyx88kafz3hidijpw
Raikou somehow wins vs a Golurk team. Drag sets tspikes and weakens Coba. It should have gotten off a Flip Turn as well, but got flinched by Iron Head, which made the game a bit more challenging.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1286876968-1xeqnh0qjz1mdlarvcfwz3w1hmy00ifpw
There were also a few games like this, where Drag simply didn't do anything: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1286883056-qj3c900ibpltew9aji3da4521zp2xunpw
All in all, I would say the combo of SUBCM Raikou and Dragalge really impressed me. I did not like Dragalge that much without SubCM Kou, nor did I like Roserade. I also tried one game of Weezing, but didn't like building with it. I do think there is a place int his meta for Dragalge, but I'm not so sure about the other Tspikers. Weezing is generally awkward in my view, while Rose is pretty mediocre on its own and probably better off running Spikes and dropping Tspikes.
Import of the final team:
https://pokepast.es/0684b102f37928ac
Ladder peak:
Attachments
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Choice Band Mudstale And Cres
This thing is great it uses its awsome uninvested bulk to take a hit and smack them back cc for Zardue+Stak Bs
Cres is ok kinda sad its a wall but it loses so hard to toxic and Zarude kinda sad
https://pokepast.es/1625b4ff6234a3f8 Team is here
Sorry couldnt right more I ended up managing a tournament which is taking up all my time.
This thing is great it uses its awsome uninvested bulk to take a hit and smack them back cc for Zardue+Stak Bs
Cres is ok kinda sad its a wall but it loses so hard to toxic and Zarude kinda sad
https://pokepast.es/1625b4ff6234a3f8 Team is here
Sorry couldnt right more I ended up managing a tournament which is taking up all my time.
The team:
https://pokepast.es/6e2ef87ac463d221
The replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1286866576
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1286902152-yn3z2v50jd6780o8netwpsf50elef0mpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1286910334-ltzp7hdmv4ce5tqtxovo19qab1pnagrpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1286916897-cl38xvxcp6glpxy140d34sf4w7k20bqpw
Keeping it brief as I'm getting ready for work and forgot to post this yesterday. Cress's main issue as a CMer is that, in addition to the Haze Milo and Zarude that threaten other CM mons (Reun, Gbro, Cune), Steels are a hard stop until weakened or removed, with even more offensive ones like Durant preventing you from getting anything going. Tried running Salazzle and Leech + U turn Celebi to help wear Milo and Steels down, but if the opponent brings a Steel and Zarude, you're left with a mon that needs to boost to do any relevant damage, but is immediately punished for trying to do so. And outside of general bulk, Cress can't really do much. Maybe if you run something like Toxt to wear down Steels immediately it could work, but haven't had much time to test last week and thus I'm left pretty underwhelmed with Cress.
Might go into details with the team some more later, because Salazzle + Celebi is pretty neat, so I got that out of this if nothing else.
Preemptive congratulations to eifo for winning again.
https://pokepast.es/6e2ef87ac463d221
The replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1286866576
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1286902152-yn3z2v50jd6780o8netwpsf50elef0mpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1286910334-ltzp7hdmv4ce5tqtxovo19qab1pnagrpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1286916897-cl38xvxcp6glpxy140d34sf4w7k20bqpw
Keeping it brief as I'm getting ready for work and forgot to post this yesterday. Cress's main issue as a CMer is that, in addition to the Haze Milo and Zarude that threaten other CM mons (Reun, Gbro, Cune), Steels are a hard stop until weakened or removed, with even more offensive ones like Durant preventing you from getting anything going. Tried running Salazzle and Leech + U turn Celebi to help wear Milo and Steels down, but if the opponent brings a Steel and Zarude, you're left with a mon that needs to boost to do any relevant damage, but is immediately punished for trying to do so. And outside of general bulk, Cress can't really do much. Maybe if you run something like Toxt to wear down Steels immediately it could work, but haven't had much time to test last week and thus I'm left pretty underwhelmed with Cress.
Might go into details with the team some more later, because Salazzle + Celebi is pretty neat, so I got that out of this if nothing else.
Preemptive congratulations to eifo for winning again.
I'd like to take a minute to talk about our lord and savior Specs Salazzle, seriously that set is dummy good in the current meta. Having the ability to beat Zarude, Togekiss, and every Steel-type bar Staka is great, especially now when Monke and Kiss are everywhere. (unless you were talking about cress in which case i'll say that that's true and that specs salazzle is still gud)
But anyway, here's my team.
(link is here!)The team does have a few defined weaknesses (lack of a proper Fire resist, low Speed overall), but I think it's serviceable enough. CB Mudsdale is a funny set to be sure, although I think such a set is better on Rhyperior, which is stronger, slightly faster, and has STAB Stone Edge. Mudsdale's better special bulk and defensive typing means it does have its niches over Rhyp, however. The Speed EVs are so that you can outpace Registeel and hit it with EQ off the bat. CB Mudsdale is quite prediction reliant, but then again, the same goes for any Choice-locked Ground-type. Deleting Zarude with CC and Togekiss with Heavy Slam is a lot of fun, and honestly in this meta I'd consider Heavy Slam worthwhile on any set--if you're dedicated to running Mudsdale--for its ability to get immediate chip on Kiss and Levitate G-Weezing. Running relatively low bulk investment does mean you have to be careful about what you try and switch Mudsdale into, though.
Oof, I’m late. Anyway, here’s my input:
Cresselia
I hate facing this mon in NU, so you could probably picture my reaction when I could fuck this thing to hell and back with Zarude and friends. I give it 0/10 out of spite, send this to the deepest pits of hell.
Just joking, of course. I found cress to be an excellent wincon, actually. Despite Psychic being a bad defensive typing, cress succeeds in spite of its typing, namely because of how bulky it is. Base 120/120/120 defenses are nothing to scoff at, and it walls pretty much everything in the tier that doesn’t have Dark or Bug moves or is obscenely powerful in the first place. Once it gets a few CMs under its belt, there’s pretty much no special attack that can KO it, so you have to use physical attacks... and that’s where Kee Berry comes in, just to screw over mons like Zydog and Rhyperior. And of course, Stored Power comes in and obliterates everything after enough boosts. It’s speed tier is also worth talking about; 85 base speed is enough to outrun some slower attackers such as Alolawak with enough investment, if that’s your thing. The main cons of it are that it’s woefully passive until it finds an opportunity to use CM and there’s enough counterplay to ruin it, such as Darkest Lariat/Trick/Toxic/Taunt/phasing moves etc. But cress is still rather reliable as a wincon if you can’t afford putting Suicune/Glowbro in your team for whatever reason, so I rate it 7/10.
Here’s the team, if you’re interested.
Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1284940791
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1286157209
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1287427802
Toxic Spikes
Unlike eifo here, I had a pleasant experience with Rose as my Toxic Spikes setter. Honestly, you’re probably better off with drag or weezing, but I chose rose for this team.
Getting back on track, I had a fine experience with T Spikes, in all honesty. There’s a ton of grounded mons in the tier to take advantage of, and so, lots of mons to force switches with. While Glowbro and Toxtricity and the abundance of Steels kinda hamper the viability of the playstyle, there are still ways of getting around them. Zydog is a perfect example; no sane player would switch these mons into Thousand Arrows, and its checks are already chipped by rocks and poison damage. A lot of setup sweepers also appreciate T Spikes support, Mimikyu and Shift Gear Tox being some examples coming from my mind. Really, this post is already long enough, so I’ll wrap up here by rating this playstyle a solid 7.5/10.
Once again, the team if you want to try it out.
Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1287435100
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1287531596
Cresselia
I hate facing this mon in NU, so you could probably picture my reaction when I could fuck this thing to hell and back with Zarude and friends. I give it 0/10 out of spite, send this to the deepest pits of hell.
Just joking, of course. I found cress to be an excellent wincon, actually. Despite Psychic being a bad defensive typing, cress succeeds in spite of its typing, namely because of how bulky it is. Base 120/120/120 defenses are nothing to scoff at, and it walls pretty much everything in the tier that doesn’t have Dark or Bug moves or is obscenely powerful in the first place. Once it gets a few CMs under its belt, there’s pretty much no special attack that can KO it, so you have to use physical attacks... and that’s where Kee Berry comes in, just to screw over mons like Zydog and Rhyperior. And of course, Stored Power comes in and obliterates everything after enough boosts. It’s speed tier is also worth talking about; 85 base speed is enough to outrun some slower attackers such as Alolawak with enough investment, if that’s your thing. The main cons of it are that it’s woefully passive until it finds an opportunity to use CM and there’s enough counterplay to ruin it, such as Darkest Lariat/Trick/Toxic/Taunt/phasing moves etc. But cress is still rather reliable as a wincon if you can’t afford putting Suicune/Glowbro in your team for whatever reason, so I rate it 7/10.
Here’s the team, if you’re interested.
Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1284940791
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1286157209
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1287427802
Toxic Spikes
Unlike eifo here, I had a pleasant experience with Rose as my Toxic Spikes setter. Honestly, you’re probably better off with drag or weezing, but I chose rose for this team.
Getting back on track, I had a fine experience with T Spikes, in all honesty. There’s a ton of grounded mons in the tier to take advantage of, and so, lots of mons to force switches with. While Glowbro and Toxtricity and the abundance of Steels kinda hamper the viability of the playstyle, there are still ways of getting around them. Zydog is a perfect example; no sane player would switch these mons into Thousand Arrows, and its checks are already chipped by rocks and poison damage. A lot of setup sweepers also appreciate T Spikes support, Mimikyu and Shift Gear Tox being some examples coming from my mind. Really, this post is already long enough, so I’ll wrap up here by rating this playstyle a solid 7.5/10.
Once again, the team if you want to try it out.
Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1287435100
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1287531596
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Sorry for the delay (again), but grats to eifo for winning this week (again)!
Cresselia was generally underwhelming according to Ningildo and Drivetacos as it's a bulky set-up sweeper that gets ruined by status, something its competition in Reuniclus and Slowbro do not have to deal with. This results in Cresselia generally being a worse pick than the other two, another problem with it, as noted by Ningildo, is that Cresselia does not immediately pressure steels either, while still losing to everything that Reuniclus and Slowbro do. However, sovietsympathizer had a pleasant time with cress, pointing to its obscene bulk which lets it be a great wincon vs the offensive volturn teams that often don't have a toxic user. Even against bulkier teams, Cresselia can often trade out with stored power thanks to its exponential increase in power.
Mudsdale was noted as being a fun mon to use, although its niche is quite small. As FALCOWNPAUNCH! notes, the things it has over Rhyperior is its better special bulk and its typing that allows it to better deal with Raikou, Xurkitree, and Cobalion. It faces some problems with the typing too though, as Rhyperior is able to resist Togekiss' flying STAB, which allows it to be a better switch in. Another thing I've noted when I've tested Mudsdale is that it has a big surprise factor, especially if paired with Cobalion.
eifo used toxic spikes, and had mixed results with the different mons he used. Roserade was a big failure, and he gave up on that mon. After this he moved on to Dragalge, which proved more successful, although mainly when paired with Raikou, which is a great abuser of tspikes. He also tried using Weezing, but noted that he didn't like how it fit on teams. sovietsympathizer used Roserade as well, and had a much better experience, all-in-all, both players thought that tspikes were a pretty solid, albeit matchup reliant, playstyle rn.
Onto the next week;
PZ is a very unexplored mon right now, which makes it a perfect candidate for research week. Having great coverage in normal + ghost, you can either go adaptability or download, which has a bit more risk involved. Honestly I haven't used Porygon-Z much so can't talk much about it, but as I said its unexplored, so it'll be interesting to see what y'all do with it!
Marowak-Alola carves itself out a niche as an electric immunity without actually being a ground type. It also is an extremely strong breaker, which is rare in the current meta, often allowing it to trade itself out even in unfavorable matchups. There are multiple disadvantages it has to Chandelure though, mainly being prone to chip from stealth rocks and also being significantly slower. However, the immunity to electric attacks could very well make up for these flaws.
Reuniclus has two main sets in this meta, AV and Magic Guard CM, however, for this week I'd like you guys to try out Regen CM. This set is much like what Slowbro generally uses, but with some slight differences. Reuniclus has more bulk than Slowbro, and also has different weaknesses, trading a Ground weakness for a bug one, additionally, it's much stronger unboosted. However, it does have some downsides, mainly being weak to status, so for this week, the main interest is in whether these traits make it better or worse than its competition in Slowbro.
In order to participate you must do the following:
Cresselia was generally underwhelming according to Ningildo and Drivetacos as it's a bulky set-up sweeper that gets ruined by status, something its competition in Reuniclus and Slowbro do not have to deal with. This results in Cresselia generally being a worse pick than the other two, another problem with it, as noted by Ningildo, is that Cresselia does not immediately pressure steels either, while still losing to everything that Reuniclus and Slowbro do. However, sovietsympathizer had a pleasant time with cress, pointing to its obscene bulk which lets it be a great wincon vs the offensive volturn teams that often don't have a toxic user. Even against bulkier teams, Cresselia can often trade out with stored power thanks to its exponential increase in power.
Mudsdale was noted as being a fun mon to use, although its niche is quite small. As FALCOWNPAUNCH! notes, the things it has over Rhyperior is its better special bulk and its typing that allows it to better deal with Raikou, Xurkitree, and Cobalion. It faces some problems with the typing too though, as Rhyperior is able to resist Togekiss' flying STAB, which allows it to be a better switch in. Another thing I've noted when I've tested Mudsdale is that it has a big surprise factor, especially if paired with Cobalion.
eifo used toxic spikes, and had mixed results with the different mons he used. Roserade was a big failure, and he gave up on that mon. After this he moved on to Dragalge, which proved more successful, although mainly when paired with Raikou, which is a great abuser of tspikes. He also tried using Weezing, but noted that he didn't like how it fit on teams. sovietsympathizer used Roserade as well, and had a much better experience, all-in-all, both players thought that tspikes were a pretty solid, albeit matchup reliant, playstyle rn.
Onto the next week;
Porygon-Z @ [insert]
Ability: [insert]
EVs: [insert]
[insert] Nature
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-
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Ability: [insert]
EVs: [insert]
[insert] Nature
-
-
-
-
PZ is a very unexplored mon right now, which makes it a perfect candidate for research week. Having great coverage in normal + ghost, you can either go adaptability or download, which has a bit more risk involved. Honestly I haven't used Porygon-Z much so can't talk much about it, but as I said its unexplored, so it'll be interesting to see what y'all do with it!
Marowak-Alola @ [insert]
Ability: [insert]
EVs: [insert]
[insert] Nature
-
-
-
-
Ability: [insert]
EVs: [insert]
[insert] Nature
-
-
-
-
Marowak-Alola carves itself out a niche as an electric immunity without actually being a ground type. It also is an extremely strong breaker, which is rare in the current meta, often allowing it to trade itself out even in unfavorable matchups. There are multiple disadvantages it has to Chandelure though, mainly being prone to chip from stealth rocks and also being significantly slower. However, the immunity to electric attacks could very well make up for these flaws.
Reuniclus @ [insert]
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: [insert]
[insert] Nature
- Calm Mind
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-
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Ability: Regenerator
EVs: [insert]
[insert] Nature
- Calm Mind
-
-
-
Reuniclus has two main sets in this meta, AV and Magic Guard CM, however, for this week I'd like you guys to try out Regen CM. This set is much like what Slowbro generally uses, but with some slight differences. Reuniclus has more bulk than Slowbro, and also has different weaknesses, trading a Ground weakness for a bug one, additionally, it's much stronger unboosted. However, it does have some downsides, mainly being weak to status, so for this week, the main interest is in whether these traits make it better or worse than its competition in Slowbro.
In order to participate you must do the following:
- Post here with a fresh RW alt (such as RURW14 mac3) and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
- Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched.
- Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using, participate in the discussion!
- Post replays of this Pokemon in action against other teams - don't just tell us, show us
- The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the highest ladder ranking on the Pokemon Showdown RU ladder with their RW alt at the time the challenge ends. Winners will also receive a permanent spot in this thread's Hall of Fame.
- Ladder will be checked Sunday the 28th, 9pm GMT +1
RURW14 TTF, taking Porygon-Z.
RURW14 Tacos takin Pz
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