Chilling Water is just the cherry on top honestly, it probably is absolutely overkill, but it does avoid rocky helmet preventing you from getting chipped. I would say Liquidation is probably better. On second thought, maybe even Body Press over a Water STAB wouldn't be a bad option either. Without the Talk of RestTalk, Dondozo becomes EXTREMELY passive, and becomes fodder for any special attacker. RestTalk allows Dondozo to keep pressure while recovering HP with Rest. You can at least get some chip on the incoming special attacker, or catch the physical attacker you rested on off guard.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
- Status
alephgalactus
Banned deucer.
In the wake of the latest bans, I’d like to take a moment to—and I never thought I’d be saying this—commend the Council on the fantastic job it’s been doing. They’re taking decisive action on the most broken things in the meta, actively listening and responding to community feedback, and being transparent about what’s going on up there at the top. Thanks to Finch and all the Council members for working so hard to ease the always rough transition into a new meta. (Also, a retroactive thanks for banning King’s Rock. I didn’t agree with the ban last gen, but with this gen introducing a 10-hit move, I fully support not allowing King’s Rock and Maushold anywhere near each other.)
That being said, I’d like to ask everyone this: What is the weirdest/least “meta” mon you’ve managed to find success with?
That being said, I’d like to ask everyone this: What is the weirdest/least “meta” mon you’ve managed to find success with?
Dondozo's special bulk is attrocious and you're never staying in on a special attacker. I'm not saying my set is necessarily optimal but curse allows you to wall a lot of things you wouldn't otherwise, and waterfall + body press is good coverage against the physical Pokemon that are actually threatening to you. In the context of these sets, you're trying to shore up its weaknesses whereas I'm trying to optimise its strengths. Dondozo is such a lopsided Pokemon imo it makes more sense to leaning into what it's already good at, rather than trying to make it deal some extra chip.
Oh nonono you misunderstood. If you rest on the physical attacker they will swap on the next turn. If you can catch them on that swap and Talk into an Avalanche/Body Press/Liquidation/Whatever you can get chip on the swap turn when they least expect it, then switch to Blissey or another wall.
I would say Maushold, but I have yet to run into a team without a rocky helmet pokemon. It's not like Maushold is good or anything lol.
KamenOH
formerly DynamaxBestMeta
God, dragonite rules in this meta. Tera normal, as long as youre smart and/or lucky, just punches holes in teams
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1722506532
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1722506532
Pretty cool sweep but also like
Quick Claw Klefki????
KamenOH
formerly DynamaxBestMeta
Maybe they wanted to get their status moves done even earlier?
guys, chi-yu is busted.
specs overheat does so much damage
av 152 sp. def azumarill takes 48 from overheat
this thing is nuts, especially with hazard support
specs overheat does so much damage
av 152 sp. def azumarill takes 48 from overheat
this thing is nuts, especially with hazard support
I can't wait to find out what "monke" is referring to, LOL
Oh shoot, who let G-Darm out of the cage
Poketubers wish they had a 1 million subs lol
Huh, I wonder if I can use Toedscruel against Gholdengo. Sure it moves last but it's bulky Specially and can go thru Good as Gold with Spore
Current Gen 9 Threatlist
Obviously viability rankings can't really be a thing this early on but I thought I'd make some attempt at one so worst-case I can look back on this a few months later and see how dumb i was, and best-case help people get a rough sense of the current state of the tier. I have no usage stats and I'm stuck in 1500s hell rn so bear in mind this isn't an informed perspective lol. Also, tiers aren't ordered.
Overall I think Gholdengo is probably the most broken guy at the moment, and it's led to a lot of hazard stack and screens offense teams as well as the ocassional stall. I don't currently feel that we should decide on Tera before we get rid of Gholdengo, since a meta without Gholden would, in my opinion, allow for much more freedom in terms of balance and bulky offense, and would make HO seem less overbearing with perma-spikes not being a thing anymore.
I feel defensive Tera is rarely an issue (eg I feel Skeledirge-Fairy is a good defensive Terastaliser since regular fairies rn aren't too great but dragons are), but the sentiments I've seen expressed against Tera have mostly been criticisms of HO setup mons like Roaring Moon, DD Dragonite, Annihilape, and Esparthra, who might not feel so "cheap" and impossible to win against if stacking spikes and disabling status/removal/phasing from opposing defensive mons via Good As Gold wasn't quite so easy.
Obviously viability rankings can't really be a thing this early on but I thought I'd make some attempt at one so worst-case I can look back on this a few months later and see how dumb i was, and best-case help people get a rough sense of the current state of the tier. I have no usage stats and I'm stuck in 1500s hell rn so bear in mind this isn't an informed perspective lol. Also, tiers aren't ordered.
Overall I think Gholdengo is probably the most broken guy at the moment, and it's led to a lot of hazard stack and screens offense teams as well as the ocassional stall. I don't currently feel that we should decide on Tera before we get rid of Gholdengo, since a meta without Gholden would, in my opinion, allow for much more freedom in terms of balance and bulky offense, and would make HO seem less overbearing with perma-spikes not being a thing anymore.
I feel defensive Tera is rarely an issue (eg I feel Skeledirge-Fairy is a good defensive Terastaliser since regular fairies rn aren't too great but dragons are), but the sentiments I've seen expressed against Tera have mostly been criticisms of HO setup mons like Roaring Moon, DD Dragonite, Annihilape, and Esparthra, who might not feel so "cheap" and impossible to win against if stacking spikes and disabling status/removal/phasing from opposing defensive mons via Good As Gold wasn't quite so easy.
if you're planning on adding to the viability list then consider including these :)
Weavile, Umbreon, Staraptor, Hydreigon, Rotom-Heat, Toxtricity, Lycanroc-Dusk and Forretress for the roles they've always done in former generations, and Mabosstiff for Stakeout on BO, Scream Tail for being a decent fairy, Quaquaval for being budget Urshifu, and Spidops for webs whilst Gholden is still in the tier :)
Weavile, Umbreon, Staraptor, Hydreigon, Rotom-Heat, Toxtricity, Lycanroc-Dusk and Forretress for the roles they've always done in former generations, and Mabosstiff for Stakeout on BO, Scream Tail for being a decent fairy, Quaquaval for being budget Urshifu, and Spidops for webs whilst Gholden is still in the tier :)
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hey SV OU! hope we're all doing well!
been silently spectating and experimenting within the tier over the last week or so and wanted to highlight some particular Pokemon I think are pretty awesome in the metagame whilst also dropping my thoughts on some other Pokemon are thing are superb in the current meta!
Volcarona
Volcarona @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Grass/Ice/Ground
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Giga Drain / Tera Blast
Surprising absolutely no one, Volcarona is very much still a force to be reckoned with in the tier thanks to its access to Quiver Dance and powerful STAB moves, useful defensive profile, as well as being able to fully utilise Heavy Duty Boots as it previously did in SS OU. Volcarona is able to take advantage of an array of common offensive threats such as Gholdengo, Iron Valiant and Meowscarada and turn them into opportunities, scaring them out of the scene whilst either firing off a powerful move or setting up with Quiver Dance. With the recent removal of Palafin and Iron Bundle, it no longer has to fear powerful Water-types preventing it from setting up, or stopping its sweep with Palafin's patented Jet Punch, whilst also allowing to mix things up with its Tera Type. Tera Grass is still great, as getting STAB on Giga Drain for Pokemon like Dondozo, Great Tusk and Quaquaval is extremely help (while also helping it take their Water and Ground-type moves better), Tera Ice has a lot of potential for helping it break past Dragon-type Pokemon it may struggle to break through, such as Garchomp, Dragapult, and most importantly Dragonite, being able to cleanly break through its Multiscale after its boosted.
+1 252 SpA Tera-Ice Volcarona Tera Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 404-476 (125 - 147.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Tera-Ice Volcarona Tera Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 270-320 (83.5 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Tera-Ice Volcarona Tera Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 616-732 (172.5 - 205%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Of course, there's a lot of give and take in this scenario. While Volcarona is able to bypass a lot of its defensive checks, Tera Ice leaves it prone to Scizor's Bullet Punch and Breloom's Mach Punch, which would it would previously tank with ease, as well as still leaving it walled by Skeledirge, which can be fixed by Tera Ground, which then leaves it open to most forms of priority whilst struggling immensely to handle its best check, Dragonite.
Iron Moth
Iron Moth @ Booster Energy / Heavy Duty Boots
Ability: Quark Drive
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Tera Type: Grass
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fiery Dance
- Sludge Wave
- Energy Ball
- Agility
I'll be touching on Iron Moth in a bit less detail than Volcarona, but the dancing bug's future form is one of my favourite Pokemon to use right now! Agility in tandem with its colourful movepool, wide array of resistances and access to two extremely useful items in Booster Energy and Heavy Duty Boots make it a powerful set up sweeper that people must be wary of, even if it struggles to break through Dragon-types and thus must be removed from the field before going for a sweep. Iron Moth's already high 110 Speed Stat in conjunction with its sky-high SpA makes it a powerful offensive threat capable of handling the likes of Corviknight, Iron Treads, Great Tusk and Garganacl, the latter only requiring about 18% chip (a spike and rocks do the job) to guarantee the OHKO. A set that could also be experimented with is a bulky Toxic Spikes set, making use of its insane amount of resistances and access to Morning Sun, whilst still being a powerful offensive threat and solid Special bulk to back it up.
Slither Wing
Slither Wing @ Choice Band / Choice Scarf / Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- First Impression / Leech Life
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Earthquake / Flare Blitz / like a bajillion other moves
Some of you have probably guessed the theme of the post by now, and while this prehistoric predator has sunk below many people's eyes, I find that it has quite a lot of potential in OU and definitely deserves a shot. Slither Wing's monstrous Attack stat, solid bulk and coverage moves allow it to function as powerful Choice Band user and Choice Scarf user, with Band Slither Wing being able to chunk Corviknight, Iron Treads and Dondozo for huge amounts of damage, especially if you decide to run Adamant, and Choice Scarf being able to get the jump on Pokemon like Meowscarada, Cyclizar, Chi-Yu and Adamant Chein-Pao. Similarities to Buzzwole and Heracross can be made due to its strength and typing, but Slither Wing's colourful movepool and access to priority and arguably the best Bug-type move in U-turn help differentiate it significantly. Other movesets that also deserve a mention are Bulk Up + 3A, Bulk Up + Morning sun and even an AoA set with Flame Charge, allowing it to mix up the moves it wants to use whilst being able to boost its speed with ease.
-----------------------------------
Onto some smaller thoughts on very popular Pokemon right now:
: Dragonite is really, really good in this metagame, and has been able to capatalise on both Terastallization and its amazing ability is Multiscale to function as a terrifying set up sweeper that is able to absolutely tear teams apart. Whilst I don't think its particularly broken, its a premier offensive threat in the tier and everyone has to account for the abundance of sets that it can wield.
: Another really strong offensive Pokemon that's I believe is worth taking a look at suspect-wise, mainly due to playerbase concern, Chien-Pao's amazing movepool and offensive stats allow it to completely break teams open if given ample opportunity. I think this is another case of the Tera Adaptability bonus boosting its power to absurd levels, but its certainly a terrifying Pokemon and deserves to be on the radar, particularly now with two strong Ice resists out of the picture.
: I haven't seen a lot of discussion regarding these two, but the powerful priority they provide is absolutely stellar in the tier right now, with Scizor having access to both Quick Attack and Bullet Punch and Breloom's Mach Punch being no joke when boosted by Technician and a potential Choice Band or Swords Dance. Both of them are able to threaten some of the strongest offensive Pokemon in the tier like Roaring Moon, Chien-Pao, Chi-Yu and Baxcalibur, whilst also providing helpful resistances for their team. Both really solid mons that I'd definitely recommend checking out.
: I have seen this thing wall a Gyarados and a Garchomp. Without Terastallising. This crocodile is so insane and eats so many physical hits for breakfast, lunch and dinner that really the only thing holding it back is its weakness to hazards and common offensive typings in Dark, Water and Ground, but Terastallising helps with that a significant amount. I won't be surprised if Skeledirge becomes a defensive OU staple or even a decent option on teams that greatly appreciate its role as an Unaware user able to pack a punch.
-----------------------------------
That's all from me for now, happy laddering everyone and stay safe!!
been silently spectating and experimenting within the tier over the last week or so and wanted to highlight some particular Pokemon I think are pretty awesome in the metagame whilst also dropping my thoughts on some other Pokemon are thing are superb in the current meta!
Volcarona
Volcarona @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Grass/Ice/Ground
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Giga Drain / Tera Blast
Surprising absolutely no one, Volcarona is very much still a force to be reckoned with in the tier thanks to its access to Quiver Dance and powerful STAB moves, useful defensive profile, as well as being able to fully utilise Heavy Duty Boots as it previously did in SS OU. Volcarona is able to take advantage of an array of common offensive threats such as Gholdengo, Iron Valiant and Meowscarada and turn them into opportunities, scaring them out of the scene whilst either firing off a powerful move or setting up with Quiver Dance. With the recent removal of Palafin and Iron Bundle, it no longer has to fear powerful Water-types preventing it from setting up, or stopping its sweep with Palafin's patented Jet Punch, whilst also allowing to mix things up with its Tera Type. Tera Grass is still great, as getting STAB on Giga Drain for Pokemon like Dondozo, Great Tusk and Quaquaval is extremely help (while also helping it take their Water and Ground-type moves better), Tera Ice has a lot of potential for helping it break past Dragon-type Pokemon it may struggle to break through, such as Garchomp, Dragapult, and most importantly Dragonite, being able to cleanly break through its Multiscale after its boosted.
+1 252 SpA Tera-Ice Volcarona Tera Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 404-476 (125 - 147.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Tera-Ice Volcarona Tera Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 270-320 (83.5 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Tera-Ice Volcarona Tera Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 616-732 (172.5 - 205%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Of course, there's a lot of give and take in this scenario. While Volcarona is able to bypass a lot of its defensive checks, Tera Ice leaves it prone to Scizor's Bullet Punch and Breloom's Mach Punch, which would it would previously tank with ease, as well as still leaving it walled by Skeledirge, which can be fixed by Tera Ground, which then leaves it open to most forms of priority whilst struggling immensely to handle its best check, Dragonite.
Iron Moth
Iron Moth @ Booster Energy / Heavy Duty Boots
Ability: Quark Drive
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Tera Type: Grass
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fiery Dance
- Sludge Wave
- Energy Ball
- Agility
I'll be touching on Iron Moth in a bit less detail than Volcarona, but the dancing bug's future form is one of my favourite Pokemon to use right now! Agility in tandem with its colourful movepool, wide array of resistances and access to two extremely useful items in Booster Energy and Heavy Duty Boots make it a powerful set up sweeper that people must be wary of, even if it struggles to break through Dragon-types and thus must be removed from the field before going for a sweep. Iron Moth's already high 110 Speed Stat in conjunction with its sky-high SpA makes it a powerful offensive threat capable of handling the likes of Corviknight, Iron Treads, Great Tusk and Garganacl, the latter only requiring about 18% chip (a spike and rocks do the job) to guarantee the OHKO. A set that could also be experimented with is a bulky Toxic Spikes set, making use of its insane amount of resistances and access to Morning Sun, whilst still being a powerful offensive threat and solid Special bulk to back it up.
Slither Wing
Slither Wing @ Choice Band / Choice Scarf / Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- First Impression / Leech Life
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Earthquake / Flare Blitz / like a bajillion other moves
Some of you have probably guessed the theme of the post by now, and while this prehistoric predator has sunk below many people's eyes, I find that it has quite a lot of potential in OU and definitely deserves a shot. Slither Wing's monstrous Attack stat, solid bulk and coverage moves allow it to function as powerful Choice Band user and Choice Scarf user, with Band Slither Wing being able to chunk Corviknight, Iron Treads and Dondozo for huge amounts of damage, especially if you decide to run Adamant, and Choice Scarf being able to get the jump on Pokemon like Meowscarada, Cyclizar, Chi-Yu and Adamant Chein-Pao. Similarities to Buzzwole and Heracross can be made due to its strength and typing, but Slither Wing's colourful movepool and access to priority and arguably the best Bug-type move in U-turn help differentiate it significantly. Other movesets that also deserve a mention are Bulk Up + 3A, Bulk Up + Morning sun and even an AoA set with Flame Charge, allowing it to mix up the moves it wants to use whilst being able to boost its speed with ease.
-----------------------------------
Onto some smaller thoughts on very popular Pokemon right now:
: Dragonite is really, really good in this metagame, and has been able to capatalise on both Terastallization and its amazing ability is Multiscale to function as a terrifying set up sweeper that is able to absolutely tear teams apart. Whilst I don't think its particularly broken, its a premier offensive threat in the tier and everyone has to account for the abundance of sets that it can wield. : Another really strong offensive Pokemon that's I believe is worth taking a look at suspect-wise, mainly due to playerbase concern, Chien-Pao's amazing movepool and offensive stats allow it to completely break teams open if given ample opportunity. I think this is another case of the Tera Adaptability bonus boosting its power to absurd levels, but its certainly a terrifying Pokemon and deserves to be on the radar, particularly now with two strong Ice resists out of the picture. : I haven't seen a lot of discussion regarding these two, but the powerful priority they provide is absolutely stellar in the tier right now, with Scizor having access to both Quick Attack and Bullet Punch and Breloom's Mach Punch being no joke when boosted by Technician and a potential Choice Band or Swords Dance. Both of them are able to threaten some of the strongest offensive Pokemon in the tier like Roaring Moon, Chien-Pao, Chi-Yu and Baxcalibur, whilst also providing helpful resistances for their team. Both really solid mons that I'd definitely recommend checking out. : I have seen this thing wall a Gyarados and a Garchomp. Without Terastallising. This crocodile is so insane and eats so many physical hits for breakfast, lunch and dinner that really the only thing holding it back is its weakness to hazards and common offensive typings in Dark, Water and Ground, but Terastallising helps with that a significant amount. I won't be surprised if Skeledirge becomes a defensive OU staple or even a decent option on teams that greatly appreciate its role as an Unaware user able to pack a punch.-----------------------------------
That's all from me for now, happy laddering everyone and stay safe!!
Even in games where a single hazard isn't thrown out or Gholdengo is nowhere to be found, defensive tera on those setup HO mons is still cheap and terrible to deal with. It's not the tera thread so I'm not going to go into it but they're definitely pretty cheap with tera.
Okay so, i did some theory crafting about
as a spinner who could defend himself against and although this is only theory crafting of course, its... somewhat decent
Forretress @ Assault Vest
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Payback
- Rapid Spin
- Gyro Ball/Body Press
- Volt Switch/Rock Blast/Ice Spinner/Earthquake/Poison Jab
So this set takes laughable damage from scarf dengo dengo
0 Atk Forretress Payback (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 138-164 (43.8 - 52%) -- 12.5% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk Forretress Gyro Ball (145 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 75-88 (23.8 - 27.9%) -- 88.3% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Forretress: 66-78 (18.6 - 22%) -- possible 5HKO
252 SpA Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Forretress: 88-105 (24.8 - 29.6%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Gholdengo Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Forretress: 88-104 (24.8 - 29.3%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO
0 Atk Forretress Gyro Ball (145 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 75-88 (23.8 - 27.9%) -- 88.3% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Forretress: 66-78 (18.6 - 22%) -- possible 5HKO
252 SpA Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Forretress: 88-105 (24.8 - 29.6%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Gholdengo Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Forretress: 88-104 (24.8 - 29.3%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO
he sadly does not have the same luck against nasty plot dengo
+2 252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Forretress: 131-154 (37 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 SpA Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Forretress: 175-207 (49.4 - 58.4%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Gholdengo Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Forretress: 175-206 (49.4 - 58.1%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Forretress: 175-207 (49.4 - 58.4%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Gholdengo Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Forretress: 175-206 (49.4 - 58.1%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
In my opinion, even tho this set is specifically made for dengo, i think that some extreme hardcore stall teams could use his talents alongside Wish Support given that Corvi is in a rough spot, and if you think about it
No defog
1000000000 hazards
broken mons with hazards
tera making games longer
this sounds like a perfect oportunity for him, i know this is not really the case given by all the power creep, but i belive he does have a niche, even if it is the tinyest of ones, who wants to test this? because i wont lmao
I know it might not come across as that big of a deal to a number of people but I think it's very telling that quickbans are still happening while all of the mechanics of the game are still not totally understood. And before anyone says "well in gen 1 we didn't know about body slam on normal types until-" gen 1 was also made of spaghetti code so mechanics we did not understand were because it was a mess not because we were one week out from the game launching. I'm desperately waiting for a VGC ruleset to drop because I have given up hope on OU being worth the time investment.
It seems like the council has a clear picture of what it wants OU to be, but what's the endgame here? If you have to keep banning more and more things, maybe that's not a signifier that they're too strong for OU, maybe it's a signifier that OU has a higher power level than you're willing to accept? I also can't help but notice a chain reaction where certain threats being instantly nuked from orbit leads to more things down the line becoming unmanageable and so on and so forth. It's almost as if these things can't rightly be appraised in 2 fucking days. I see a lot of the general public reacting negatively to the haste with which these bans are being doled out, and I know that always happens, but the sheer quantity of the bans that are so hastily being doled out is really shaking people's faith in Smogon as an authority on singles.
well time to go back to not thinking about it until the next series of bans drops and I go "oh come on!" and start angrily ranting about the state of the game again
It seems like the council has a clear picture of what it wants OU to be, but what's the endgame here? If you have to keep banning more and more things, maybe that's not a signifier that they're too strong for OU, maybe it's a signifier that OU has a higher power level than you're willing to accept? I also can't help but notice a chain reaction where certain threats being instantly nuked from orbit leads to more things down the line becoming unmanageable and so on and so forth. It's almost as if these things can't rightly be appraised in 2 fucking days. I see a lot of the general public reacting negatively to the haste with which these bans are being doled out, and I know that always happens, but the sheer quantity of the bans that are so hastily being doled out is really shaking people's faith in Smogon as an authority on singles.
well time to go back to not thinking about it until the next series of bans drops and I go "oh come on!" and start angrily ranting about the state of the game again
So I tried out the new Tauros forms a little, Fire/Fighting with Intimidate on paper sounds funny because it can be thrown wildly into things like Chien Pao and Kingambit, Raging Bull destroys screens, and can spread wisp burns relatively freely early game. In the end its still a tauros so it has speed that was great for 2009, bulk that isn't very high even with intimidate, and requires boots to actually do what little it can do. Now my time with it was the first week or so of the meta so flutter and the waters were still around, it did a pretty solid job of spreading early burns around but never really did much else. Beat a couple people with bulk up so that was fun but it was fairly lower ladder. The Water/Fighting one is super ass so while it can in theory also switch on chien-pao and friends it doesn't have the ability to spread status and teams are still transitioning from the palafin meta so a ton of water checks are running around (seriously just use the duck starter its a million times better).
The other thing I've tried a bunch is Magneton. Scarf Magneton hits 393 speed which is notable because unlike scarf zone its actually able to outrun iron valiant, roaring moon, cyclizar, and Mewoscarada (talonflame as well if that actually catches on) and while it doesn't ohko corv at full it puts it so low anyone can run it over thus accomplishing the task anyway. Also helps more physical teams pressure dondozo and can revenge weakened tera water annihilape. Hardest part has been picking the tera type to run, Fire allows it to delete scizor safely and hits other things like opposing magnezone and treads while also pulling an uno reverse out on mach punch breloom and remove it instead of dying. Ice can surprise KO great tusk who think they can predict an electric move or come in off corv u-turn (flash cannon can 2 hit on the switch tho), one shot arrogant chomp leads who try to stack spikes in your face, forcing spdef clodsire into spamming recover, and is the best option for unboosted roaring moon doing 70% min to it,56% chance to OHKO after 1 spike and rocks, and if it doesn't die its now dragonite food. Big downside to ice imo is that it means you now lose to scizor rather than eliminate it which is big enough that i've ran fire more often. Been really fun to pair with DD Dragonite and scarf roaring moon who very much appreciate corv being weak/dead and/or scizor being burnt to cinders. Glimmora hazard stack makes corv players choose defog and die later to dragon spam or leaving up hazards and hoping for the best (to be fair thanks to goldy this is kind of the case already and people are adapting). Despite my tera conundrum I really don't tera it because then I'm not using fair and balanced tera normal dragonite but its still a thing you can do depending on the game.
Perhaps instead of subscribing to a conspiracy that has a council of hard working volunteers has a preconceived agenda for the metagame you look at the facts.
We have no more quickbans planned and have been public on this. The concept is still on the table, but suspects seem most likely next, which allows for public votes to accompany the already present public discussion.
This thread has shown massive majority support for each ban and I have personally posted dozens and dozens of times to assure this consensus.
None of the mechanical changes held an impact on the Pokemon banned enough to dictate much at all, the Pokemon impacted by the mechanical change — Annihilape — did not get voted ban largely out of hesitation.
It gets really exhausting and frustrating seeing people act as if we are doing what we are in abuse do our power or in bad faith when there has been an absurd amount of documented evidence. People electing to ignore that or not reference it in their posts while slinging accusations of mishandling is just a loss for everyone involved.
Kinda piggybacking off this, having strong priority to help threaten and thus check some of the common dangerous pokemon make both Scizor and Breloom really reliable in the meta and I am kind of shocked at how little I've seen either Scizor or Breloom on ladder, let alone discussed. Loom in particular was buffed pretty hard this gen between gaining close combat and gunk shot, the latter allowing it to potentially smash past Amoonguss, as well as loaded dice sets making its bullet seed a strong weapon.
And I guess I'll mention
too but man has this actually met my expections. I was pretty hyped when I saw the datamines and its movepool and it definitely lives up to that. Especially love its capacity to be a nice check to non tera ground Volcarona, can solidly check Slither Wing, and with Earth Power it can check Iron Moth well also. Terastilization helps its tougher match ups against strong attackers that hold stab SE coverage (Roaring Moon and Chien-Pao) but those match ups I find aren't impossible to win without tera. Just takes more care. Torch Song is a great move too, especially with shed tail running around. And I find it is a great user of willowisp.
Slither Wing is real cool and solid with a unique movepool for a fighting type. Though sometimes it feels hard to find the right moveset due to how many good moves it has.
alephgalactus
Banned deucer.
Oh shit, I didn’t even consider Tera Fire Magnet Pull when I was going through my Big Mental List of ways to use Terastal. I think I know why Ferrothorn didn’t come back now—if I were 4x weak to Fire and you told me “hey, remember those Pokémon that don’t let you switch out? Well, this upcoming gen is going to let them turn into Fire-types with Fire STAB”, I wouldn’t want to participate either.
Since the slither wing thread is practically dead discussion wise, I'm curious if anyone is even using this thing.
It hits really hard...
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dragapult: 203-240 (64 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(+1 is band, life orb is cuz protosynthesis isn't in the damage calc)
..like really fucking hard if you're in a sun team, but its speed tier leaves much to be desired and unless you're clicking u-turn it does momentum sink you if you first impression and it doesn't result in a KO.
The pivot potential is there with will-o+u-turn+morning sun, but then its offensive capabilities plummet without first impression and investment. Pivot wing does become a pretty good counter to great tusk which either gets burned or results in something else being burned/u-turned on.
Bulk up looks decent too but then you have 4MSS again since bug/fighting doesn't hit much and ghost wall you, you can either give up leech life for EQ and hit most things, or give up CC for EQ and keep the drain tank potential without losing to ghost.
It seems like one of those jack of all trades master at none mons and I'm curious what anyone has had the most success/struggle against.
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The funny part is, ferro could just turn into a water type and get out scot free.
Does anyone think a dedicated Snow team can really do much without Alolan Ninetails?
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