Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

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1LDK said:
Also on a quick note, I like how none of the council members are here, so we are basically theorymonning, I think that's illegal but at this point let's just keep the party going, who wants another Soul Heart Boost?
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No gods, no kings. Become ungovernable.

Also @ Enamorus discourse, something else it has is the Contrary/Superpower combo that would have made Malamar cracked if it wasn't kind of awful instead. There's something to be said about how easily it can get one off to start boosting of course, but does a +1 Defense buff change anyone's opinion on it?
 
Hey all:

This is just a reminder that there are still several OU analyses looking for writers! The process is fairly straightforward and anyone can sign-up to write:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-ou-reservation-index.3714276/

The following sets still need writers:
:glimmora: Choice Scarf Glimmora
:hatterene: Healing Wish Hatterene
:iron treads: Offensive Iron Treads
:iron treads: Utility Iron Treads
:scizor: Pivot Scizor
:slowking: Specially Defensive Slowking
:volcarona: Offensive Volcarona

Go to the thread I linked if you are interested in signing up for a set. Thanks!
 
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Return to Zero said:
Also @ Enamorus discourse, something else it has is the Contrary/Superpower combo that would have made Malamar cracked if it wasn't kind of awful instead. There's something to be said about how easily it can get one off to start boosting of course, but does a +1 Defense buff change anyone's opinion on it?
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I thought about that a good bit, but at the end of the day I'm tempted to just say no.
Enamorus is a bit lacking when it comes to being a mixed attacker since it's frail, doesn't have an extremely high speed stat, doesn't have Booster Energy to really hammer things home. and is weak to rocks. It has poor physical coverage outside Superpower so you're really only using Superpower to boost the power of Superpower itself.
I think Valiant just does a better job in that regard given its Close Combat is already STAB and its attack is higher, and even at +1 Defense Enamorus still really can't take a hit.
Bulky Enamorus with a high defense also already exists and it's called the Therian form. If you're tempted to do a mixed bulky attacker, that's probably just the better option. It also just shuts down Breloom hard because it can switch into anything, even Spore, and not care at all.
 
yNot Mence said:
Speaking of Home, do we know if Ultra Beasts are coming back? They've always been treated as semi-legendaries more than average mons, so I'd assume they would get the Tapu's treatment.
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not confirmed to be returning but i don't see a world in which they aren't brought back, unless they fully intend to replace the ultra beasts with the new (albeit similar) paradox pokemon. i imagine the UBs will return during one of the DLC waves alongside all the other legendaries since apparently game freak does like their legendaries
 
So I feel like the meta is in a really good place, I've definitely came across Volc on the ladder and sure it was scary to deal with but it can only run 4 moves (Quiver Dance, Flamethrower / Fiery Dance, Filler (Morning Sun, Bug Buzz, Giga Drain, Tera Blast Psychic, Hurricane, Wisp), Filler (Morning Sun, Bug Buzz, Giga Drain, Tera Blast Psychic, Hurricane, Wisp). I feel like it's manageable but definitely deserves a suspect test I wouldn't be opposed to it. But back to my original point I do feel like this is the best SV OU has been since the inception.
 
I quite like the state of SV OU too. Now that the dust has settled and the really way-too-strong stuff has left the field, everything fits together well. I can't really think of anything deserving of a quickban, and I could honestly be fine with any way a suspect test on Volc or Garg goes.
 
same, gonna enjoy the stability and balance until home inevitably brings the crazy back. the paldea dex + protean starters have been a good pool of mons to choose from, now that the truly egregious stuff is gone. lots of good new mons in valuable roles, and protean starters who are actually healthy.
 
AndViet said:
So I feel like the meta is in a really good place, I've definitely came across Volc on the ladder and sure it was scary to deal with but it can only run 4 moves (Quiver Dance, Flamethrower / Fiery Dance, Filler (Morning Sun, Bug Buzz, Giga Drain, Tera Blast Psychic, Hurricane, Wisp), Filler (Morning Sun, Bug Buzz, Giga Drain, Tera Blast Psychic, Hurricane, Wisp). I feel like it's manageable but definitely deserves a suspect test I wouldn't be opposed to it. But back to my original point I do feel like this is the best SV OU has been since the inception.
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I also agree on everything, honestly while Volc is indeed one of the best mons in the tier right now I still find it quite manageable, regardless of the set that I encounter. I understand people's feeling regarding the eventuality of a suspect test, but I don't really find it anywhere near as broken as the previous threats lurking around. Whenever I lost to the likes of Pao and Espathra it really felt cheap, since there was no real way to outplay them besides overprepping during teambuilding. With Volcarona I don't feel that need, and I can figure out a way to beat my opponent as I go during my matches. In my current team I have Ting-Lu with Whirlwind to set Hazards and check possible set up sweepers (Dnite, Ceruledge, Volcarona, Roaring Moon etc.), in the previous one I had a Specially Defensive Garg that could easily take on it (and it was mainly a Dragapult counter with Tera Fairy), and in my other ones I either had Clodsire, Dondozo or any fast Physical mon like Banded Dragapult or Cinderace.
Now I'm not trying to say that people should agree with my thoughts, but I do believe that this is one of the best and most competitive metagames we've had in a while, being both fun and balanced (besides maybe a few exceptions).
 
Probably in the minority, but the Toxic purge makes me enjoy this metagame much more than in Gen 8. Feels like you can get away with running a higher variety of sets on most Pokemon since you aren't always at risk of getting hit with a move that puts you on a timer and largely is riskless to throw out. I think Toxic being less prevelant is partially why we are seeing a higher volume of bulky sweepers like Great Tusk be pretty effective (though maybe that's not the case higher on the ladder, idk). I do miss several Gen 8 staples that I use to run like Slowking-G though, and I feel like the variety of playstyles that can be viably run has shrunk due to Pokemon being severely nerfed or losing crucial abusers (particularly in sands case). Someone else mentioned that the powercreep this gen compared to other is quite high, and I'm inclined to agree. Pokemon like Gholdengo and Great Tusks feel like they warp the meta to a far greater extent than Landorus-T or Heatran ever did.
 
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i think “powercreep” often has a negative connotation, but i feel like it’s positive in this case. i look at SS OU, where only 10-11 Gen8 mons are UU or higher. whereas you could point to 20 or so OU/UUBL/UU Gen9 mons and argue they’ll still be important parts of a post-home meta, or at least have unique niches. it’s cool to see strategies or team structures that exist now where they couldn’t before, because the new mons/moves/abilities are actually solid.
 
fly casanova said:
i think “powercreep” often has a negative connotation, but i feel like it’s positive in this case. i look at SS OU, where only 10-11 Gen8 mons are UU or higher. whereas you could point to 20 or so OU/UUBL/UU Gen9 mons and argue they’ll still be important parts of a post-home meta, or at least have unique niches. it’s cool to see strategies or team structures that exist now where they couldn’t before, because the new mons/moves/abilities are actually solid.
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I think it's a little bit of both, in Gen 9's case. The good part is that, because everything has good movesets and stat distribution, even half of gen 9's normally-awful mons are at least UU viable, if not OU outright.

The bad is, obviously, that half of the mons that would have been good in another generation turned out completely insane. But it really is nice to see that the Lokix, Kilowattrels and Toedscruels of the world are real, functional mons.
 
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chimp said:
Hey all:

This is just a reminder that there are still several OU analyses looking for writers! The process is fairly straightforward and anyone can sign-up to write:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-ou-reservation-index.3714276/

The following sets still need writers:
:glimmora: Choice Scarf Glimmora
:hatterene: Healing Wish Hatterene
:iron treads: Offensive Iron Treads
:iron treads: Utility Iron Treads
:scizor: Pivot Scizor
:slowking: Specially Defensive Slowking
:volcarona: Offensive Volcarona

Go to the thread I linked if you are interested in signing up for a set. Thanks!
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Is it only for English speakers?
 
chimp said:
I mean, the analyses do need to be written in English, though we are always looking for translators to write in other languages, if you are interested in that.
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you don't happen to be interested in Greek, are you? (I am a native speaker).
I am pretty sure that we don't have a proper translation for "pivot" so I would have to localize it as "επιστροφέας" (meaning returner).
 
JunkoAJ said:
Did you vote in the tiering survey that just happened?
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Yes, I find it truly baffling that it wasn't one of the first things to go, yes Orth isn't as broken and cyclizar but often a mon only needs one free boost for it to be game over, and if you can't break the sub on first try due to bad positioning you're even more screwed.
 
MrE said:
Yes, I find it truly baffling that it wasn't one of the first things to go.
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Well, at the time people were only using Cyclizar - Orthworm wasn't considered as good and it's only the past month or so that Orthworm has become more of a problem which is why Shed Tail was on the tiering survey.
 
Yes that's it. Cyclizar was banned for offering multiple Shed Tail, but even one is too many. Especially since with Orthworm, the clone remains at least until the replacement Pokémon's setup turn, which is a real plus compared to Cyclizar.
 
I actually tried Shed Tail strat yesterday. Maybe my team was bad, but very common things easily defeated it. Same thing happened when I built my actually good teams (No Shed Tail) , Shed Tail teams sometimes did win vs me, but I had 0 troubles preparing vs them without going out of my way too far and more often than not, I easily won the games. It's a strong strat in low-mid ladder and vs people that don't prepare vs HO (general HO, not just Shed Tail), but I see 0 unhealthy things about it. That scary Acro Tera Flying Roaring Moon (probably best Shed Tail abusser right now) it's almost equally threatening with or without Shed Tail, you gotta prepare for it regardless of the move, it's just the positioning part in the actual game where Shed Tail easens the path for the dragon to boosts but still, if you don't have reliable long-term checks, it will still sweep you without Shed Tail should the opponent play well enough.
 
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