Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]

[SpritePony]

Yeah, no. Honestly, playing ladder isn't any fun at all, and playing on cart isn't any fun anymore either between all the degenerate sleep spammers and Little Timmies running around with their hacked Ubers teams. I think I'm going to be leaving Pokemon now.

Best of luck to, well, most of y'all in your lives. I'm going to be leaving all related Pokemon spaces now, so that I don't end up making my own mental health worse. It was... an interesting time to come back to playing BDSP and SV.

 

[pokeoscar]

Yeah, no. Honestly, playing ladder isn't any fun at all, and playing on cart isn't any fun anymore either between all the degenerate sleep spammers and Little Timmies running around with their hacked Ubers teams. I think I'm going to be leaving Pokemon now.

Best of luck to, well, most of y'all in your lives. I'm going to be leaving all related Pokemon spaces now, so that I don't end up making my own mental health worse. It was... an interesting time to come back to playing BDSP and SV.

Good riddance... If you are expecting anyone to come banging at your door weeping for you to stay, boy oh boy, you are in for a treat...

Anyways, on topic, I want to throw the question: How good do y'all think Clefable will be?; one of the great things about it was the mono-Fairy typing, do you expect to see more Tera-Steel/poison now?

 

[Goodbye & Thanks]

Good riddance... If you are expecting anyone to come banging at your door weeping for you to stay, boy oh boy, you are in for a treat...

Why would you go out of your way to be harsh and mean to them? You could have just as easily ignored their post and asked your question about Clef. I really often don't understand how people act on the internet.

 

[Moyashi]

Good riddance... If you are expecting anyone to come banging at your door weeping for you to stay, boy oh boy, you are in for a treat...

Instead of just ignoring it or being neutral and polite, you choose to act like a jackass to someone for no reason. Real classy (not).

 

[DiscoDucky]

Good riddance... If you are expecting anyone to come banging at your door weeping for you to stay, boy oh boy, you are in for a treat...

Anyways, on topic, I want to throw the question: How good do y'all think Clefable will be?; one of the great things about it was the mono-Fairy typing, do you expect to see more Tera-Steel/poison now?

I think there was discussion earlier about Stored Power Clefable, which IMO is one of the better uses of Clefable. I think it learns Draining Kiss, so you can circumvent the loss of Softboiled by running [Calm Mind / Stored Power / Draining Kiss / [Thunderbolt, Flamethrower, etc.]. Take everything I say with a grain of salt because I clearly can't remember key details such as how Good as Gold works.

 

[bigasschungusboi]

Wonder what the Stored Power ban haters are going to say when there are 3 active different flavored stored power Mons on top of 2 banned stored power mons. "Hmm it's definitely not the move."

 

[KamenOH]

Wonder what the Stored Power ban haters are going to say when there are 3 active different flavored stored power Mons on top of 2 banned stored power mons. "Hmm it's definitely not the move."

I'd like to think they'd say "Well, there's a lot of mons that have Stored Power and don't use it well", to which I simply say that baton pass also had a few good users out of the myriad that had it, and it was still banned, as was Arena Trap and Shadow Tag.
The point is, sometimes the mon is the threat, but other times the threat is something less clear, like a move or an ability.

Slightly related but I still think banning an ability only 1 mon has is not complex in the slightest, as you are only banning the ability, not the ability on that specific mon. As an example, Kingambit is the only mon with Supreme Overlord. Banning SO and only SO would not be complex, since you are not saying Kingambit is allowed IF it doesn't run SO, but rather just saying that SO is banned, regardless of what mon has it.

 

[MattC (Banned)]

It's nearing 11:20 ish PM over here at the moment on my end and I just wanna share something totally out of context to what may be happening maybe even start a new mini conversation

So I was looking over my posts and their relative reactions (most was... 17? Idk it could be more) and stumbled across my post on Volcarona. Now to be honest that's a thing in the past - but that's not what I'm here to talk about

So if you tap your smogon profile, you can see your relative messages and the amount of reactions they get. So far I have 373 messages, and 783 reactions total. Some math later, that's an average of 2 per message I post anywhere. Decent for someone who spawned here last year

Now going back to my Volcarona post, Vert made a post under that with 165 reactions -- growing as we speak

THAT. Is a big number. Vert averages 5 reactions per post but still... 165 on a smogon post is a gigantic number.

Does this mean anything anywhere? No, this post doesn't mean shit. I am just baffled at what a reputation and relatability does for some people. Thankfully, this ain't YouTube where in 2 months your simple thing can get some 200K likes.

Here's to me hoping one of my posts will exceed 17 reactions

 

[Ryomathekillers]

It's nearing 11:20 ish PM over here at the moment on my end and I just wanna share something totally out of context to what may be happening maybe even start a new mini conversation

So I was looking over my posts and their relative reactions (most was... 17? Idk it could be more) and stumbled across my post on Volcarona. Now to be honest that's a thing in the past - but that's not what I'm here to talk about

So if you tap your smogon profile, you can see your relative messages and the amount of reactions they get. So far I have 373 messages, and 783 reactions total. Some math later, that's an average of 2 per message I post anywhere. Decent for someone who spawned here last year

Now going back to my Volcarona post, Vert made a post under that with 165 reactions -- growing as we speak
View attachment 544492
THAT. Is a big number. Vert averages 5 reactions per post but still... 165 on a smogon post is a gigantic number.

Does this mean anything anywhere? No, this post doesn't mean shit. I am just baffled at what a reputation and relatability does for some people. Thankfully, this ain't YouTube where in 2 months your simple thing can get some 200K likes.

Here's to me hoping one of my posts will exceed 17 reactions

one time i had 20+ likes on a post, I will brag to my grandchildren about this event.

To not be a one liner.
I've recently been using a lot of AV pex and Ironpress Garg again
I am honestly not quite sure why those two sets in particular fell out of the meta, they have really good synergy together and serve to blanket check the vast majority of popular threats in the meta right now. I feel as if most people tend to lean towards variants of Glowking Zapdos for more momentum for their defensive core but honestly? I think that the chip from infestation + salt cure is very underrated and I was wondering this.

has anyone else had any previous meta sets that they were fond of that they think really have no reason not to make a resurgence?
I think AV Pex and Ironpress garg are super underrated right now for example, I have been using both on a grassy terrain team featuring specs regidrago, maybe it's something in high ladder that is different but I've been having both a lot of fun and success with them in around 1600-1700s.

 

[Moyashi]

Wonder what the Stored Power ban haters are going to say when there are 3 active different flavored stored power Mons on top of 2 banned stored power mons. "Hmm it's definitely not the move."

Because in reality there aren't many, if any, problematic stored power mons right now. Cress is solid and popular for ladder play, but its very one dimensional and easy to play around for a well built team. garticuno has fallen out of popularity for people have figured out more or less how to handle it. And Clefable? It's not gonna rock the house. CM Magic Guard sets will be alright, but unaware sets are just going to be wholely mediocre and match up fishy.

Slightly related but I still think banning an ability only 1 mon has is not complex in the slightest, as you are only banning the ability, not the ability on that specific mon. As an example, Kingambit is the only mon with Supreme Overlord. Banning SO and only SO would not be complex, since you are not saying Kingambit is allowed IF it doesn't run SO, but rather just saying that SO is banned, regardless of what mon has it.

It's not complex. It also isn't how tiering is done generally. Generally the Pokemon is judged, unless individual elements are blatantly proven to be problematic as a whole, and you can't realistically argue SO is broken when only one mon has it, and that mon has a collection of traits that help enable it.

To not be a one liner.
I've recently been using a lot of AV pex and Ironpress Garg again
I am honestly not quite sure why those two sets in particular fell out of the meta, they have really good synergy together and serve to blanket check the vast majority of popular threats in the meta right now. I feel as if most people tend to lean towards variants of Glowking Zapdos for more momentum for their defensive core but honestly? I think that the chip from infestation + salt cure is very underrated and I was wondering this.

Ironpress garg is fine, but curse sets are less exploitable and can flip the script on several would be checks which makes it more appealing imo. As for pex, I think AV just is too easy to take advantage of with spikes and rocks being everywhere. It stops being as effective at walling things when it can't just stay in and recover damage off. Plus, it's not THAT threatening in damage.

 

[MetaSkipper]

one time i had 20+ likes on a post, I will brag to my grandchildren about this event.

To not be a one liner.
I've recently been using a lot of AV pex and Ironpress Garg again
I am honestly not quite sure why those two sets in particular fell out of the meta, they have really good synergy together and serve to blanket check the vast majority of popular threats in the meta right now. I feel as if most people tend to lean towards variants of Glowking Zapdos for more momentum for their defensive core but honestly? I think that the chip from infestation + salt cure is very underrated and I was wondering this.

has anyone else had any previous meta sets that they were fond of that they think really have no reason not to make a resurgence?
I think AV Pex and Ironpress garg are super underrated right now for example, I have been using both on a grassy terrain team featuring specs regidrago, maybe it's something in high ladder that is different but I've been having both a lot of fun and success with them in around 1600-1700s.

Jeez, if 1600-1700 isn't even high ladder, then I'm down in the trenches around 1300-1400.

I suspect having a defensive core where both are weak to Ground is a problem with lots of Earthquake and Earth Power running around. Your team compensates for this with Grassy Terrain, but maybe that's too much investment for a core? That said, all that chip sounds like something I'd have fun trying out.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Jeez, if 1600-1700 isn't even high ladder, then I'm down in the trenches around 1300-1400.

because of inflation, "high ladder" doesn't even encompass all of top 500 anymore

 

[MattC (Banned)]

Jeez, if 1600-1700 isn't even high ladder, then I'm down in the trenches around 1300-1400.

Same. I'm stuck in the 1400s and won't escape that poor limbo

Just get better at the game, they said. Yea if I was better I wouldnt be there...

 

[Blaze_101392]

View attachment 544384

dlc 2 only it seem

Yea, this is what I thought. Everything about how they were framing the new paradox Pokemon and the new moves suggests those aren't dropping until DLC 2. IMO anything shown in the material concerning the 2nd DLC should be assumed to be coming with that and not 1.

 

[Kenpwnchi]

Yeah, no. Honestly, playing ladder isn't any fun at all, and playing on cart isn't any fun anymore either between all the degenerate sleep spammers and Little Timmies running around with their hacked Ubers teams. I think I'm going to be leaving Pokemon now.

Best of luck to, well, most of y'all in your lives. I'm going to be leaving all related Pokemon spaces now, so that I don't end up making my own mental health worse. It was... an interesting time to come back to playing BDSP and SV.

Aye, man. It's all good. It's just a game. You have to learn how to make things fun for YOUR sake. PKMN, like any game, is not all about winning and losing (despite, obviously, being a competitive game). Practice more, and I can assure you that you won't have the problems you're having now.

 

[ant4456]

Instead of just ignoring it or being neutral and polite, you choose to act like a jackass to someone for no reason. Real classy (not).

that's just what Smogon was when it started and for many years until the forum became less gatekeepy (arguably)

I always hold this thread in my bookmarks, it's Finchinator's first thread. If you are expecting politeness and inclusion...

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/please-rate-my-new-ou-team-gen-5.3458899/#post-3999393

not saying that's good, but there will always be some shit like this unfortunately

I'm glad you all called it out, a good step towards that

 

[Bakugames]

being a cunt over competitive pokemon is so embarassing, we're playing colorful animal chess brother grow up.

AV tox: I feel like not being able to spread toxic or stop sweeps with haze is too much of a detriment. what sets do you run with it? infestetation with surf or chilling water? regenerator is a good ability combined w infestation but even then I feel like its easier to exploit vs recover.

ladder: if youre ok with slow growth, the way I've been doing it is that I just play 3 or so games per day and then stop it. and for each game I just write a mental note of my mistakes, nothing big and no analysing for hours, but it still helps me. I'm a busy person, I got a job and courses to do, so this helps me balance a bit of showdown on my schedule without taking too much of my time, and it helps keeping the game fun. I don't spam ladder which is why I've been able to enjoy sv ou a lot, even the most bs matches are just once or twice per day, and then I move on to do something else LOL.

 

[Local Dog]

being a cunt over competitive pokemon is so embarassing, we're playing colorful animal chess brother grow up.

I once saw some guy look genuinenly down on people who... enjoy the games. Like they genuinenly called people who like the main game as childish and dumb or something? Because the main game is a stupid kids game, but the competitive scene is for big adults?

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

I once saw some guy look genuinenly down on people who... enjoy the games. Like they genuinenly called people who like the main game as childish and dumb or something? Because the main game is a stupid kids game, but the competitive scene is for big adults?

i mean, it depends on when that was posted. if someone was looking down on people who enjoy sword and shield, i can defend that position because those games are real actual garbage

 

[artificialdeath]

It's true that people on this site used to be more dickish/confrontational, and it's probably for the better that it's been toned down a bit, but I do miss the "lurk moar" attitude that this place and a lot of similar internet communities had. Asking for advice with teambuilding is one thing, but learn a bit about the forum culture itself before making posts in threads like these IMO

(for the record I'm talking about when I used it from the beginning of XY to the beginning of SM, which was kind of a transitional period between the old Smogon and modern Smogon)

 

[Bakugames]

It's true that people on this site used to be more dickish/confrontational, and it's probably for the better that it's been toned down a bit, but I do miss the "lurk moar" attitude that this place and a lot of similar internet communities had. Asking for advice with teambuilding is one thing, but learn a bit about the forum culture itself before making posts in threads like these IMO

This is just personal annecdotes, but I always found myself excluded from "lurk more" communities because a lot of it is just unspoken rules that people never clarified, not without making fun of you for being an idiot for not realizing it. I do have autism & other brain things so I always had difficulty with it, but it's why I prefer the more open community, even if it results in people asking obvious things or needing to be directed somewhere else. I'm sure some people just didn't care to read the rules but sometimes you just don't get it

 

[Magcargo]

I look at some of my older post back in 2013 and tbh they were about as bad as they are now. I suppose the one saving grace is that I care less about using this site to make friends and focus more on the game's various elements. I'm also a lot less of an ass towards players using "bad" mons. So that's some progress ig.

To pivot back to the meta, that Protective Pads Sneaseler is pretty nasty. Gets a lot of free chip on Lando-T / Zapdos w/ Fake out + U-Turn combo w/o risking status or Helmet chip. What makes it good compared to, say Ambipom is that it has Poison Touch letting it fish for Poison vs these guys and win the long game. Hazards are annoying, but I see it gets paired up with Cinderace, which can flip the hazard game to its favor via Court Change. Gets hard stopped by poison types like Slowking-G and esp Toxpex however.

Cinderace is shaping up to become a meta superstar. Whoever came up w/ the idea of using a bulkier EV Spread is a genius. Goes a long way in helping it letting it use Wisp vs some big threats like Lando-T. Also pairs really nicely with Blaze, which buffs its damage output a lot. Its speed is extremely useful in this meta since it lets it revenge a lot of mons like Zapdos, Lando-T, etc when they are at low ranges. All in all, a fantastic option vs most of the standard strategies that one may face, like Hazard Spam and Dual Screens.

Zapdos feels like it has really good 1v1 match-ups vs most of the metagame. Even against Pokemon that it should struggle against like Baxcalibur, it can tech some speed EVs so that it can land an emergency T-Wave. In most games, leading Zapdos and going for Volt Switch seems like a really winning play, though this assertion may be false the higher one goes on the ladder. Also can punish some common Tera Flyers like Gambit and Gholdengo. Tera Flying Thundy-T is a pretty hard MU tho.

It feels like Boots are becoming mandatory on most Pokemon, which I'm not sure how to feel about.

 

[Bakugames]

It feels like Boots are becoming mandatory on most Pokemon, which I'm not sure how to feel about.

Curious: do you find the issue being with boots, or hazards? As in, is there a preference for hazard stacking to matter/stop pivots, or if the issue is they're so prevalent boots feels like the only answer to it?

 

[matte]

What do you guys think of 's place in the metagame? Its movepool is really well suited for today's metagame. Bullet Punch takes care of things like and which are really prominent in the meta rn and can brute force things like with tera. Hazard Stack + Scizor could be a viable option rn? Hazards help alot with things like and which normally wall Scizor.

 

[Ryomathekillers]

Curious: do you find the issue being with boots, or hazards? As in, is there a preference for hazard stacking to matter/stop pivots, or if the issue is they're so prevalent boots feels like the only answer to it?

Personally I think it is with boots.

It is so much easier in the current meta to for example, slap boots into your zapdos and glowking.

it means that you don't even have to bother thinking or considering hazards for what is your pivot/defensive core. I don't think it will ever be about how op hazards are, Instead it is just the ability to ignore what is a large part of the meta game.

I would compare boots to a theoretical "unaware" item ". The issue isn't set up sweepers in that case, it is the fact that as a mon you can literally ignore what is a big and important part of the meta in set up moves, I'd say it is similar in the case of boots. You get so much immense value as mons with boots are quite literally not playing by the same rules as the rest of your team in some cases, you could run helmet on zapdos, you could run colbur/av on glowking, but it isn't really worth it over what you gain by running boots.


They are just quite literally a superior item on mons who pivot a lot or have a rocks weakness, the only mons I dont think boots are clearly the best choice are well choiced mons or mons who just want to sit on the field rather than being used for momentum like Pex, Garg and Lu. Personally I have almost stopped bothering with rocks, it feels all you get out of it these days is maybe 6% chip on a kingambit or you hope that their choiced mon is weak to rocks, but at that point I'd rather just have a more useful move on my mon running rocks (Garg, Tran GT).