Garchomp, the most broken pokemon in OU.

[The_Rider]

garchomp should be banned. guess wat?

a dragon claw from salamence doesn't even kill it 85% average. its should go home and sleep. outrage from garchomp kills sally even when intimidated. and with 102 spd, good luck. so, garchomp is the most powerful of all 600 stats pokes. it make latias and latios look like happineys

Anyways you're wrong I suggest you do calcs first before posting things like this lol.

Standard DD Mence(with leftovers) with no DD against a standard SD Chomp
Damage: 86.43% - 101.66%
Standard CM Latios (with Souldew) against a standard SD Chomp
Damage: 116.62% - 137.12%
Standard CM Latias (with Souldew) against a standard SD Chomp
Damage: 67.87% - 79.78%
^I think this calc is wrong but w/e.

Latios and Latias are still better than Chomp.

Your deductive powers and sentence structure amuse me.

Lmao.

 

[Forsety]

Standard DD Mence(with leftovers) with no DD against a standard DD Chomp
Damage: 86.43% - 101.66%
Standard CM Latios (with Souldew) against a standard DD Chomp
Damage: 116.62% - 137.12%
Standard CM Latias (with Souldew) against a standard DD Chomp

Funny...last I checked Chomp didn't even learn DD.

 

[The_Rider]

Oh lmao sorry about that I mean SD x_x;. I'll go edit my post now. My sincere apologies.

 

[travisurfer]

I fully agree with the original poster. It just doesn't help when Garchomp is on nearly every team either. I've had countless certain victories ruined by Sand Veil's accuracy drop not to mention Brightpowder. Its just that Garchomp is so versatile on top of an insane ability. BTW, Gliscor is also annoying because of Sand Veil but it is no where near the broken threat that is Garchomp.

 

[Bliksem]

I think the Stealth Rock point is slightly incorrect, due to the fact that while Salamence, Gyarados and Dragonite are all weaker to it, they are also immune to Spikes and Toxic Spikes, both which hit Garchomp. Stealth Rock is obviously easier to setup, but I'm just saying that it isn't as complete a point as one would think.

 

[Bourbon]

If you wanna play that way, it takes just one turn to set up SR and chop 1/4 off the Salamence switch in, but it takes three turns to do the same to Garchomp with Spikes.

 

[Blissey_ODonnell]

If you wanna play that way, it takes just one turn to set up SR and chop 1/4 off the Salamence switch in, but it takes three turns to do the same to Garchomp with Spikes.

Not exactly. It takes one turn of set-up for Toxic Spikes, at which point Garchomp will take a grand total of 25% after switching in and attacking, with 12.5% every turn. Then it continues, and basically kills its ability to use Subs, while Dragonite and Salamence only take 25% on the switch-in, then takes 6.25% every turn. So in the long run, Salamence and Dragonite win at residual damage wars.

Plus Stealth Rocks can be Spun away and both can Roost the damage away, while the Garchomp user needs a spinner AND a cleric.

 

[Stall]

If you wanna play that way, it takes just one turn to set up SR and chop 1/4 off the Salamence switch in, but it takes three turns to do the same to Garchomp with Spikes.

Or one turn of Toxic Spikes, which is enough to severely stop Garchomp from sweeping you. The same cannot be said of SR, which will deal only 25% to Mence.

 

[picklesword]

Every single pokemon on this list gets 2hko'd by CB Chomp except for Hippowdon (Hippowdon loses to SD Chomp). The ones that are only 2hko'd by Outrage (which is important cause this means Garchomp can't switch out until it ends) are Gliscor, Weezing, Hippowdon, Donphan, Suicune. None of these pokemon are capable of OHKOing Garchomp with these spreads. This means that all the pokemon without a reliable recovery moves WILL lose because they will get 3hko'd while the try to 2hko Garchomp. That means Suicune is out. Gliscor only wins with Roost (depleting Dragon Claw's pp), Donphan has Ice Shard (and NEEDS CB) to 2hko Garchomp before it gets 3hko'd, Weezing can Will o Wisp Garchomp (pray to good that it lands).

Garchomp is not a pokemon you kill with a defensive pokemon. The pokemon on the list are meant to outstall him. Also the fact that you say in the bolded part is missleading as hippowdon is the best phazer in the game and can just Roar him loosing all his Sword dances, and get Slack Off damage for latter. Garchomp is not hard to counter when you know what it is. Draco Meteor does not so great damage against when its life orbed. 80 base with a 120 base attack and life orb damage can easily be recovered. Yache chomp is the most effective garchomp, because people consider garchomp to be countered by something. So its simple, make a list of counters that outspeed him. Scarf means it looses lots of strength, then all those walls can counter him. Any good pokmeon in OU should be able to either stall or garrantee a kill.

 

[AJC]

have fun when Roar decides to miss after it SDs and then kills you with EQ

 

[picklesword]

have fun when Roar decides to miss after it SDs and then kills you with EQ

It does not actually after one Sword Dance, and Defensive pokemon are not a good way to kill garchomp. It will be funny when I crit with Ice Fang with Hippowdon. Or freeze him.

 

[AJC]

have fun with your 75 (or 67 acc in the case of bright powder) acc ice fang

 

[Lord Alchemy]

Not that this is important at all to the dicussion as it is a single case, but I had an SDchomp survive an Ice Punch (would have KO'd) through Sand Veil, get a Swords Dance, kill my new Anti-Lead Snorlax (who is very sexy and I might post at some time), then gets a crit Fire Fang on my Skarmory.

I still won. I lol'd. Good times commenced. I'd imagine if Chomps was Uber I would have been dead. I had plenty of ways to deal with it and the team I was using is a half assed team that I've been subbing pokes into to test while I work on building my new team. I dunno, Garchomp is good. Really good. But Ice Beam is on damn near everything for reasons other then Garchomp, and does just a good job killing him. I can't say I've had many problems with it.

 

[Bogmire]

Garchomp is not a pokemon you kill with a defensive pokemon. The pokemon on the list are meant to outstall him. Also the fact that you say in the bolded part is missleading as hippowdon is the best phazer in the game and can just Roar him loosing all his Sword dances, and get Slack Off damage for latter. Garchomp is not hard to counter when you know what it is. Draco Meteor does not so great damage against when its life orbed. 80 base with a 120 base attack and life orb damage can easily be recovered. Yache chomp is the most effective garchomp, because people consider garchomp to be countered by something. So its simple, make a list of counters that outspeed him. Scarf means it looses lots of strength, then all those walls can counter him. Any good pokmeon in OU should be able to either stall or garrantee a kill.

it's 140 power not 120. I think you're underestimating the power of chainchomp's draco meteor. it does 67-79% damage to the standard Hippowdon. So no, it's not "easily recovered" as the next hit will still do 33-39% damage.

 

[goldemblem]

To the one that said that a Scarfer can be a sure counter to a chomp, also remember that a lot of chomps are scarfed and can rape u if you misspredict, i really dont think that chomp its that broken, and i have played against a lot of them, i usually have little problem killing it, if people want to complain against the brightpowder chomp better ban tar, its the main sandstorm enabler and has movesets similar to chomp, and i consider tar more annoying that chomp

 

[Automatic]

My biggest issue is sand veil.

Gah, so frustrating. Both teams down to last poke. Dewgong vs Garchomp. Ice Beam misses @ 38% Garchomp and Dewgong faints to the following attack.

MAKE IT STOP :(

and yeah, I still don't understand why bright powder is legal since it breaks evade clause.

 

[xcfrisco]

Garchomp is not a pokemon you kill with a defensive pokemon. The pokemon on the list are meant to outstall him. Also the fact that you say in the bolded part is missleading as hippowdon is the best phazer in the game and can just Roar him loosing all his Sword dances, and get Slack Off damage for latter.

I don't believe anything I posted is "misleading" cause I post a lot of facts with damage calcs to back up my claims. I addressed every single one of your points in my post.
-First, I never claimed that Garchomp only gets killed with defensive pokes, I said that he has no "counters," which is true.
-Second, only pokemon with recovery moves "outstall" garchomp. How do you propose any of the pokemon on my list outstall garchomp when they all get 2hko'd? Even Leftovers Hippo can get 2hko'd (although its a small chance).
-And third, how is hippo gonna slack off the damage later? You better pray a special pokemon doesn't come in when you roar out Garchomp cause your gonna eat SD'd earthquakes which really really hurt. Your gonna have to Slack Off the damage immidiately, and nothing really happens for free ever in D/P (except attacks missing on garchomp in Sandstorm)

and yeah, I still don't understand why bright powder is legal since it breaks evade clause.

I think the exact wording of evasion clause for D/P is that only moves that can raise evasion are banned. That means traits and items are fair game (an argument that anyone else can bring up)

 

[Dragontamer]

-And third, how is hippo gonna slack off the damage later? You better pray a special pokemon doesn't come in when you roar out Garchomp cause your gonna eat SD'd earthquakes which really really hurt. Your gonna have to Slack Off the damage immidiately, and nothing really happens for free ever in D/P (except attacks missing on garchomp in Sandstorm)

Erm... no. You are required to have a Hippowdon or Tyranitar if you want to get Garchomp in. Hippowdon shares Garchomp's Ice Weakness, and none of them do very well switching into bulky water surfs.

I'm curious why you keep saying that Sand Veil is free. Hail support for Blizzard pokemon is just as "free" as Sandstream is and cuts out Garchomp's weaknesses. Sand Veil is as free as getting -6% hp on every other non-rock/ground/steel pokemon on your team per turn.

 

[xcfrisco]

Erm... no. You are required to have a Hippowdon or Tyranitar if you want to get Garchomp in. Hippowdon shares Garchomp's Ice Weakness, and none of them do very well switching into bulky water surfs.

I'm curious why you keep saying that Sand Veil is free.

Because Sandstorm is really really really popular. I would stop saying Sand Veil is free when Hail/weather teams rise to the popularity of SS.

I don't get what your first paragraph is saying. I meant that after Chomp uses SD EQ (or worse outrage) on Hippo, and then hippo roars, I dont see how hippo can "just slack off" the damage later, which is what the poster I quoted said.

 

[Dragontamer]

Abomasnow has risen to OU status. What more are you asking for? For him to be in the top 10?

Sand Veil is not "free", it takes setup time just like any other weather-based ability. In essence, it takes 2 pokemon to counter Garchomp when Sand Veil is up because you are in reality... playing against 2 pokemon. IE: Garchomp + Tyranitar, or Garchomp + Hippowdon.

No respectable Garchomp set would have Sandstorm on himself. Therefore, it must be supported by other pokemon. With equal amounts of set-up (You're giving Garchomp a Sub + Sandstorm), Walrein is an especially difficult force to be reckoned with (Sub + Hailstorm). No set completely counters a Stallrein because of his flexible movepool. T-Tars die to Surf, Gyarados dies to Blizzard / Rock Slide, Metagross is Sub/Protected to death (Surf kills him before he kills you with Meteor Smash anyway, esp. with a sub up), Tentacruels are Earthquaked. Blissey, Cresselia, Skarmory and etc. etc. are easily roared away or face a Toxic.

And all of those are using the cannonical Sub/Protect/Roar set, Yawn, Encore, Curse, Stockpile and others can completely screw the expected strategy. (Encore pokemon comes into a Yawn for example instead of a Sub)

My point: If you let someone set up to that point: of course they deserve a massive advantage. And if you just assume that something is set-up already, that is a bias towards Garchomp. I can admit that a SD Garchomp is probably a bit more threatening than a Walrein behind a sub, but I've won entire games stalling people out to a Stallrein all alone in a hail team as well. My core point is again, it is unfair to consider Sandstorm to be "free" when considering Garchomp

 

[Syberia]

Stallrein can, itself, be PP-stalled by a number of pokemon. Garchomp cannot.

 

[Dragontamer]

Stallrein can, itself, be PP-stalled by a number of pokemon. Garchomp cannot.

What happened to roar?

EDIT: My point wasn't that Walrein was the same level as Garchomp, but simply that giving a n advantagous weather + 1 turn of setup to a pokemon increases the strength of that pokemon dramatically. That is all.

 

[Syberia]

Sub/Roar/Protect/Surf? I don't see that set losing to, say, Cresselia any time soon. Or even Blissey, for that matter.

Or really anything that resists water.

 

[Aeroblacktyl]

No idea what the hell everyone is bitching about Walreins and Garchomps but I sure as hell have never seen anything actually stalled out of PP in DP.

 

[xcfrisco]

Abomasnow has risen to OU status. What more are you asking for? For him to be in the top 10?

Two pokemon set up SS, only one sets up Hail.

Abomosnow was barely OU last I checked (Not even, 53 on Shoddy's usage list for January isn't OU by Smogon standards.)

Tyranitar is 5 and Hippowdon is 24.

SS>>>>>>>>>>>>Hail by a shitload.

Garchomp is getting Sand Veil for free in a ton of matches.