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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3
- Thread starter TPP
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I've played 13~ games and every game had a fucking baxcalibur oh my god this thing is so annoying
Council members please use your powers to vote and qb it
Do not bring down the "Oh hey I landed hypnosis, well I guess you lose" Machine
Council members please use your powers to vote and qb it
Do not bring down the "Oh hey I landed hypnosis, well I guess you lose" Machine
Nah. It's a cool special tank and pivot that spreads passive damage nicely while also being a useful backup check to some stuff.
It's not supposed to? It just uturns out of them. It's not supposed to be offensive. It's a utility and defensive pivot with a really solid typing.
1. max spdef empo lives and roosts with lefties plus it can consider tera or can switch to a fire resist/immune very easily
2. pelipper isnt the switchin... its the fact that rain is a poor matchup for wake sun, thats all
3. yes of course heatran gets destroyed by hydro steam which is why you learn to predict/bait out the dracos or flames or weather balls and go tran on those moves instead of on the water move. protect can scout vs specs, too.
4. again ghold isnt supposed to be the switchin, it's a representation of hazardstack and webs which wake doesn't appreciate. please read my post instead of looking just at the images! :)
wake really isn't banworthy at this stage and i doubt it ever will be unless it gets better support in DLC 2.
its obviously a great mon but as i said, with weather wars and good steel types and good spdef mons overall it's just not on the same level as someone like bax
it was a good meme at first but im genuinely concerned people think darkrai might be healthy for the tier... it really isnt
you know i love you but this ain't it man, darkrai is very much still broken and should absolutely not be brought down, especially not during a state of flux without a test
In my opinion, I think should give him ban Ninetales A, and obviously Bax is broken, but even after his ban, Aurora Veil is too supportive of other pokemon that abuse Tera type a lot, such as Manaphy, Kingambit, even Kommo-o has a niche.
Seriously, there is 0 justification for unbanning Darkrai. The only defensive checks to the NP set are special defense Kommo-o, Fezandipiti, and special defense Okidogi. That's three Pokemon, and Darkrai's effect on the meta would be horrible. Power creep has really not changed much for Darkrai at all defensively. I guess there's now Zamazenta-Hero to one-shot it, and Pult cleanly revenges Darkrai with Specs Draco Meteor if Darkrai doesn't Tera, but not much relevant has changed for it to not be broken.
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Honestly fuck Wake. The fact that it 2HKOs Clod under sun with Flamethrower and the fact not even Empoleon can wall it. Shit shouldn’t be allowed in the tier.
I'm not saying wake is banworthy either, I'm just posting calcs to prove wake didn't get worse after dlc, infact he most likely got better, since inbetween:
- knock being an annoyance to everything that used to switch into it (AV glowking, slowking, grasstran, etc...),
- sun proto special hydros being able to melt the entire mola + ting + dengo hstack core, (Webs do annoy it, but even so, a proto special wake is arguably more dangerous than a speed one if wake can live multiple attacks and OHKO immediately in return)
- Rain giving the little guy 100 BP 100 accurate water stab to delete your team with when you try to weather swap
- 244 SpA Choice Specs Tera Water Walking Wake Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon in Sun: 169-199 (45.4 - 53.4%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery
or
244 SpA Choice Specs Tera Water Walking Wake Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon in Sun: 169-199 (45.4 - 53.4%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
I really wouldn't say wake got worse at all
That is an amazing name for Bax and I'm half tempted to steal it as a nickname for mine.
Yea, while I do think the Dice sets will probably be really powerful, giving up Boots is is a legitimate sacrifice to enable Scale (and Spear). Hazards are everywhere and you're already SR weak. The HP loss is being made up for by Hail+Veil to help with longevity, but I can see a world where DD is still the stronger build.
Veil isn't broken by itself but Alolan Ninetales using it is too broken. That mon is bulky and fast and can get off a veil twice easily in most games and isn't a complete sitting duck with encore and hypnosis. Bax + A-tales is definitely broken but I think A-tales should be banned first because it enables too much shit and then Bax can be looked at
Now this is the copium I'm talking about.
The only statuses Fezandipiti spreads is Poison and Badly Poison, which it does poorly despite its ability Toxic Chain. Thing is that if you don't threaten Steels or Poisons, you are going to just let them do what ever they want.
Clodsire is a good example because it's a Pokemon that actually threatening to Steels and Poisons.
It has Earthquake to hit most of them Super Effectively.
It has Stealth Rock, Spikes, and Toxic Spikes to set up on them.
It has Yawn so it can still status them if they player wanted to.
It also has Unaware/Haze, so they can't set up on it either.
The trait of "it can still punish Pokemon immune to poison status effectively" is almost universal with every poison spread in every tier, including Okidogi and Munkidori have this. Fezandipiti is an exception as it does jack shit besides badly poison things. If had Knock off, Thunder Wave, Spikes, Night Shade, or something, it might actually be good in the lower tiers. Even if it had that stuff it'd be outclassed by the defensive poisons of OU and UU whose utility is just better.
Things that are cool:
is underrated right now with the natural synergy with Alolan Ninetales thanks to Snow Warning's defense boost as well as Aurora Veil. With Ice + Bug + Tera Ground, it hits virtually everything and it suddenly is challenging to take down. Speaking of Moth, I find 
with the right Tera type to be a great revenge killer with speed boosting right now; I also fit Toxic Spikes last on it to edge out opposing HO teams lacking a poison.
has the tools to be a unique and very viable pivot now that does not fit solely on stall teams. I am curious how it will fit into structures as it settles. I am yet to use it though.
Of course
with Scale Shot, Snow, and Aurora Veil is insanely good and this has been stated many times over. It will be monitored. I think Scale Shot being back helps 
a lot, too, and I have used it as I try to shy away from Tusk structures for once...
is super anti-meta right now with the emphasis on Ice types and Fairy types being more common. Gaining Knock Off is awesome, but also Bullet Punch in general is great late in games.
with Tail Glow + 3A (usually Tera Electric) is absolutely nuts right now on Veil. It is probably good elsewhere and with other sets, too.
I think Manaphy, Baxcalbir, and Light Clay are going to be discussed a lot. We will see how things go. We are still handling the ongoing vote on Volcarona, too, so keep an eye out for that.
is underrated right now with the natural synergy with Alolan Ninetales thanks to Snow Warning's defense boost as well as Aurora Veil. With Ice + Bug + Tera Ground, it hits virtually everything and it suddenly is challenging to take down. Speaking of Moth, I find with the right Tera type to be a great revenge killer with speed boosting right now; I also fit Toxic Spikes last on it to edge out opposing HO teams lacking a poison. has the tools to be a unique and very viable pivot now that does not fit solely on stall teams. I am curious how it will fit into structures as it settles. I am yet to use it though.Of course
with Scale Shot, Snow, and Aurora Veil is insanely good and this has been stated many times over. It will be monitored. I think Scale Shot being back helps a lot, too, and I have used it as I try to shy away from Tusk structures for once... is super anti-meta right now with the emphasis on Ice types and Fairy types being more common. Gaining Knock Off is awesome, but also Bullet Punch in general is great late in games. with Tail Glow + 3A (usually Tera Electric) is absolutely nuts right now on Veil. It is probably good elsewhere and with other sets, too. I think Manaphy, Baxcalbir, and Light Clay are going to be discussed a lot. We will see how things go. We are still handling the ongoing vote on Volcarona, too, so keep an eye out for that.
veil is not broken. light clay is not broken. alolan ninetales is not broken.
bax was already borderline broken pre-dlc and alolatales is just the perfect support for it. bax deserves to be banned first, and if screens really continues to be a problem after a few weeks of meta development (which i doubt), we should first look at the new additions like manaphy, or whoever else is causing the most issues, before taking actions on screens, which have always been a healthy archetype for the tier. banning screens/light clay just because it's an archetype many dislike is as dumb as trying to ban stall by banning dozo bc it means ur kingambit cant 6-0 on preview.
tldr ban bax before any action on veil alolatales, because bax is clearly the core of the problem
bax was already borderline broken pre-dlc and alolatales is just the perfect support for it. bax deserves to be banned first, and if screens really continues to be a problem after a few weeks of meta development (which i doubt), we should first look at the new additions like manaphy, or whoever else is causing the most issues, before taking actions on screens, which have always been a healthy archetype for the tier. banning screens/light clay just because it's an archetype many dislike is as dumb as trying to ban stall by banning dozo bc it means ur kingambit cant 6-0 on preview.
tldr ban bax before any action on veil alolatales, because bax is clearly the core of the problem
It doesn't do it poorly. Like you didn't even explain how it supposedly doesn't do it well.
It isn't supposed to. It clicks uturn and brings it a teammate who does. Also Clod is a funny example because it actually doesn't threaten most steels. Kingambit can threaten it outright being faster, Jirachi just iron heads it to death, corv hovers above any attacks. Clod is a super passive Pokemon that saps all momentum whereas Fez at least maintains it.
Checks iron Valiant, checks fighters nicely, taunts slower Pokemon, and has the ability to maintain momentum with uturn.
MFW I play against a Veil team for the 1,000th time that day
this is a great time to remind the general OU playerbase that it's spelled "Ninetales" and that "Ninetails" isn't even a copyrightable term because that is just the name of a Japanese mythological creature
It's also a shitty name that's like if Tyranitar was called "Godzillabackspikes" or some shit
It's also a shitty name that's like if Tyranitar was called "Godzillabackspikes" or some shit
considering how strong veiltales is and the fact that light clay made its way onto the radar once already, we should probably just get it over with and ban the item. bax first, of course, but screens in general have been a major problem across this entire gen, enabling shed tail espathra setup in the early days of the meta (though both shed tail and espathra are broken outside of screens, it really helped them), the quick claw meme team in the post-home epoch, and veiltales now. i don't think banning screens themselves is the right move, but it's way too easy to set them and keep them up right now and that needs to change. i say that light clay should go, then if screens are still an issue we should look at the most prominent setters
before any of that, though, bax has to go
before any of that, though, bax has to go
Ok but I'd be really happy to see my favorite mon in Ubers so can we bane A-Tales?
Joking aside, of the new mons I've used Bloodmoon Ursa is in a pretty similar position to its base form, but Vacuum wave is valuable, esp with Gambit and Bax.
Munkeydori is fine.... It's feels like a fairly generic, strong special attacker, like iron moth.
Joking aside, of the new mons I've used Bloodmoon Ursa is in a pretty similar position to its base form, but Vacuum wave is valuable, esp with Gambit and Bax.
Munkeydori is fine.... It's feels like a fairly generic, strong special attacker, like iron moth.
you know what, fuck it, this meta's only here for 3 months anyway, we might as well make it as wacky and zany as possible. i propose we drop everything that anyone has mentioned dropping in any ou meta discussion thread until this point
after going 35-3 on ladder (1700 area i think) im gonna give yall my shitlist and some mons i think are cool
- obviously is very absurd, scale shot being given to this mon was the opening of pandoras box; if you do not have something like air balloon dengo, levitate + tera steel gweezing, or a specific tera on X mon that the player is dangerously capable of predicting youre kinda done for. would like some action done on this in the next week or so but not right now bc dlc just came out, also may be potential for more counterplay exploration? idk
- this guy is like a mini zacian, and as absurd as that sounds im like joking and not joking at the same time. the gen 8 intrepid sword clone ability this has and the strong ass tera ivy cudgel move and having some nice STAB and coverage makes this a nuisance, not fun to play around since itll most likely punch holes in your team unless you can find some offensive pressure to beat it, and do note this things kinda fat so its gonna be a struggle
- im still mad at this bc setsu whooped my ass with this on ladder but besides that this mons a freak man. tail glow + surf + dgleam + filler is very nutty and not hard to pilot and win with, other sets like take heart resttalk are p bad and imo is kinda a waste of the mon that manaphy can be. waiting until someone cooks rain with this tho but unfort veil is everywhere on the planet atm
- im a natdex main and have some bias when it comes to this mon but holy fuck please ban this. snow everywhere doesnt even hold this mon back since itll always be a clicker and find some way to mess with your team, and tera wont even save you bc you'll prob be 2hkoed by specs hydro steam and such. it getting knock and flip turn makes it even more obnoxious since gking can just chilly out with no consequence anymore which def makes this annoying. would prob look at it down the line as well
- not much opinion on this but i dont mind this item going, would be nice limiting the batshit HOs and their tools
some mons i think are cool are
- tera normal throat spray with boomburst is the way to go for this mon at the moment, u can brute force through gking and i think clod if theyre physically biased but you can use EQ to immediately remove the two. i also like how he messes with the fire ogrepon unless they carry play rough (i do btw because i hate that mon sm) and also is a neat guy to have on your team in general with his nice mus into a good chunk of offense ive seen
- i think he has potential with some NP sets, specs/scarf/pivot could maybe be something too but NP just shreds so much lol, using psyshock/focus blast/shadow ball gives you coverage into everything relevant and be a decent clicker, speed tier is a bit upsetting but nothing too bad imo. wonder why this didnt get knock btw then pivot sets would be awesome
- yes clef is back and shes still holding up somehow, moonlight is obv unreliable in the current snowy state of the meta but i think wishtect can be solid on this too, unaware kinda doesnt check anything and also just loses to loaded dice ice spear bax so you should be using this for mguard only. also owns garg which is always nice
team ive been using, contains both kommo and bax to form the busted dragon core and air balloon ghold into fatter mus as well as checking other bax and dealing with val and munki. enam is here for webs since running into bax webs for this team is genuinely a death sentence without it and ogre has nice defensive utility into stuff like opposing enam. cool team to use and not hard to pilot, free feel to steal
thats all so tl;dr NUKE BAX
- obviously is very absurd, scale shot being given to this mon was the opening of pandoras box; if you do not have something like air balloon dengo, levitate + tera steel gweezing, or a specific tera on X mon that the player is dangerously capable of predicting youre kinda done for. would like some action done on this in the next week or so but not right now bc dlc just came out, also may be potential for more counterplay exploration? idk
- im still mad at this bc setsu whooped my ass with this on ladder but besides that this mons a freak man. tail glow + surf + dgleam + filler is very nutty and not hard to pilot and win with, other sets like take heart resttalk are p bad and imo is kinda a waste of the mon that manaphy can be. waiting until someone cooks rain with this tho but unfort veil is everywhere on the planet atm - im a natdex main and have some bias when it comes to this mon but holy fuck please ban this. snow everywhere doesnt even hold this mon back since itll always be a clicker and find some way to mess with your team, and tera wont even save you bc you'll prob be 2hkoed by specs hydro steam and such. it getting knock and flip turn makes it even more obnoxious since gking can just chilly out with no consequence anymore which def makes this annoying. would prob look at it down the line as well - not much opinion on this but i dont mind this item going, would be nice limiting the batshit HOs and their toolssome mons i think are cool are
- tera normal throat spray with boomburst is the way to go for this mon at the moment, u can brute force through gking and i think clod if theyre physically biased but you can use EQ to immediately remove the two. i also like how he messes with the fire ogrepon unless they carry play rough (i do btw because i hate that mon sm) and also is a neat guy to have on your team in general with his nice mus into a good chunk of offense ive seen
- yes clef is back and shes still holding up somehow, moonlight is obv unreliable in the current snowy state of the meta but i think wishtect can be solid on this too, unaware kinda doesnt check anything and also just loses to loaded dice ice spear bax so you should be using this for mguard only. also owns garg which is always nice team ive been using, contains both kommo and bax to form the busted dragon core and air balloon ghold into fatter mus as well as checking other bax and dealing with val and munki. enam is here for webs since running into bax webs for this team is genuinely a death sentence without it and ogre has nice defensive utility into stuff like opposing enam. cool team to use and not hard to pilot, free feel to steal
thats all so tl;dr NUKE BAX
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