Recent content by vox_amoris

My apologies. I misunderstood. Cofagrigus is naturally a defensive wall, has the nice immunities to Normal and Fighting type moves, and with Knock Off and the ability to absorb status, it would not be dead weight beyond Hazing Baton Pass. No, I have not playtested it against Baton Pass. I am...

I wasn't trying to imply that if your Hazer is your last Pokemon you can win... If you can disrupt the chain, the individual pieces of the chain can be checked or countered as individuals. This shouldn't require any strain on teambuilding because it has been made clear that none of the Baton...

Again, what you say is correct. :) You cannot stop a Baton Pass chain if you lose your Hazer or whatever move you are running to disrupt it. But in this case, doesn't that make your Hazer a win condition? As in, you must keep it alive to have a chance to win? Win conditions exist in most...

You are correct. Simply using Roar or Haze or any other move does not guarantee a win against Baton Pass teams. But what makes a Baton Pass team so dangerous? The ability to pass stat boosts from one Pokemon to another while accumulating more, gradually working up to become damn near impossible...

You are trying to state that player skill is supposed to win the game regardless of team matchup. Pokemon is way too luck based to validate that argument. "I could've won that matchup because I'm better than my opponent.... I just missed Stone Edge or Draco Meteor or whatever." There is a skill...

No team can counter every possible strategy. Making your team less susceptible to Baton Pass at the cost of (supposedly) being unable to compete against other playstyles is a choice. Teambuilding is a series of choices based on what you feel you are likely to encounter. If "not enough people use...

I don't even know where to start here. You seem to be under the impression that simply having Espeon on your team means nobody will ever even attempt to set up hazards. It also seems that you think people should be able to beat a strategy after letting the strategy be implemented fully. As for...

Rather than replying to any specific post, I am going to make a metaphor to try and illustrate what I see in this debate. Please do not dismiss it as silly or irrelevant, since it is another way of making my point in this discussion. In an ecosystem, (read: OU metagame) many different parts...

I'm not saying quitting is the way you should always deal with a Baton Pass team. I'm saying that since there are options that can disrupt the chain, and thereby make a Baton Pass team just another group of six Pokemon, if you choose not to include one of these options in your team, you have the...

How much would the entire metagame have to shift to counteract Baton Pass? You yourself stated that not everyone is using it; it is just a team archetype used on the ladder and for cheap tournament wins. Please show me a team that counters everything except Baton Pass and I will listen to the...

If Baton Pass is not an overly common, dare I say OverUsed, team style, then why object to letting the metagame shift to counteract it? You keep your teams the way they are now, without "obscure" things such as a Haze user, and when you come up against a Baton Pass team, you just refuse to play...

Baton Pass teams are what the "rest of the metagame" would be adapting to deal with.

So the debate in essence is, should we let the OU metagame evolve to counteract Baton Pass teams, or should we ban/nerf them? I support letting the OU metagame evolve. I have seen claims that certain counters are not viable in OU. Usage rate is entirely in the hands of the players, meaning...

You are 100% right. Just because something forces the metagame to evolve does not mean it's a good thing. However, I am of the opinion that there are enough things to counteract Baton Pass (not guarantee a win against it) that it should not be nerfed or banned. I feel that the only things that...

Sigh... I love it when people say something isn't OU viable. Things become OU because they are OverUsed. Why is something overused? To counteract a certain Pokemon or strategy, or because it has some value to the players using it. Like, say, stopping Baton Pass chains. If you want to claim that...