Resource ZU Old Gens Hub - [GSC] Quickban Slate @ 359!

extremely early post on gsc but considering that gsc zu is as active as its gonna be atm ill go ahead and give my 2 cents on problematic mons in the meta. im not going to be advocating for a qb or any specific tiering action because its far too early to assert that a mon should be banned, so i will only suggest whether or not a mon should be placed on the council's radar.


:gs/eevee:

its not even controversial to argue that this is the most problematic of the new drops gsc zu has seen. Being able to consistently pass boosts to teammates with little counterplay makes it difficult to play around. More importantly, most of eevee's passers are not niche, and are incredibly prominent in the meta, allowing eevee to consistently pass to a majority of a team in order to secure victory.

:voltorb: growth pass beneficiaries :Staryu:

The problem with eevee stems from the prominence of special attackers in RBY ZU. Many teams just have a lot of fast special attackers which greatly benefit from growth passing. This becomes problematic, when teams which utilize growth pass are freed of a notable constraint which growth pass, or any baton pass heavy team typically have. Instead of being forced to play around your designated growth pass receiver, most teams are chalked full of special attackers, meaning you go from playing a 4:6, to playing a 5:6, a position which can much more easily be played around. You're able to play much more frivolously, as eevee can easily pass to any of the special attackers on a team.

However, I'd be a fool not to mention the by far most oppressive recipient of growth pass in the tier, who's counterplay is extremely bare, and is often able to easily sweep, voltorb. To put it simply, at a +1 boost voltorb is easily able to easily clean and blow past many of the bulky mons in the tier if you bring it out in late, or even mid game. Most of its counterplay centers around either holding on to your bulky grass or other check until late game, or trading with your own voltorb to counter it.

Staryu, Charmeleon and other special attackers are able to make similar progress, albeit to a lesser extent due to lacking voltorb's speed tier. These do require significantly more thought to utilize, as they are often better as wallbreakers, and don't instantly win games in the same way that voltorb can, but nonetheless can still be utilized to a similar extent with only a slight increase in required forethought.

Of course, with the difference in success between special attackers in the tier, it should come into question whether or not this is a voltorb problem, and not a problem with eevee as a whole. After all, banning eevee will undoubtedly heavily tank growth pass viability within GSC ZU as a whole. Although I do think that Voltorb is worthy of coming under some amount of ban speculation, it is not exclusively the only mon which is made problematic by growth pass. Keep in mind that the difference in effectiveness between voltorb and growth pass recipient is only that of outright broken compared to offensively oppressive with little counterplay. These growth pass recipients can very easily break through teams when an opponent's team loses a defensive check or counter. Even when teams are able to play around these mons, the growth pass abusing team will inevitably have enough growth pass recipients to permit them to abuse the opponent's counterplay. Think of it sort of like the scenario: The opponent keeps their staryu alive and healthy in order to counter a suspected growth pass charmeleon in the back, but in the process they have made their own team vulnerable to a potential staryu sweep by being forced to play around their staryu counters to prevent Charmeleon from winning. Utilizing voltorb to counter these offensive baton passers does seem like a solid option, but now you are similarly sacrificing one of your strongest offensive mons, putting you at a major disadvantage late game.

:Onix: Counterplay :beedrill:

Easily the most consistent counterplay to eevee is use of phasing, mostly being done by onix. Right now, Onix can consistently gain an entry point on eevee and phase it out. Unfortunately, this is where the phasing counterplay ends, or at least the top tier phasing counterplay, that is.If your team isn't able to slot onix, your phasing options drop significantly. Croconaw is the second mon which comes to mind as a potential phaser, but slotting it on a team is far more difficult, as you'll always be doubling up on waters due to staryu being on every team. Other roar users are similarly niche and/or hard to slot onto your teams, especially considering the opportunity cost you undergo by giving up a slot which could otherwise be used by a major threat in the meta. Still, I don't think these are impossible to slot onto teams, and rather just create a momentum depression that a lot of teams are forced to account for in order to consistently account for eevee.

Haze is able to function similarly to phasing moves, but really ends up amplifying a problem which both phasing and haze have. This problem is that you always have to bring these mons in on eevee turn 1, because if the gpass abuser is able to pass, phasers can easily be put out of commission by the high power level of the gpass recipients, I bring this up with the haze users, because barley any of them can consitently beat the meta gpass recipients. Even the water-type hazers struggle to come in on charmeleon due to its physical prowess. Nevermind the fact that a majority of the hazers & phasers play a critical role in a team's core, meaning they're overall susceptible to being weakened throughout a game, further forcing them into responding to eevee while still possible. This further creates a momentum depression in the phase/hazer user's team, exacerbating the gpass user's team. This ends up shifting the match in favor of the gpass user even though you are running the designated gpass counter.

And finally, there's the most consistent inconsistent counter play to eevee, offensively checking it. I actually do think that this is the best way to beat growth pass. It's one of the only ways to beat it without sacrificing to opportunity cost on your team. This way doesn't kill your momentum, and allows you to maintain access to strong options into your opponents. Is it consistent considering that eevee can still reliably pass on a lot of the prominent mons which make up defensive cores on offense? Not at all, but it leads to your team suffering less than actually running a gpass counter.

:eevee: Conclusion on eevee :eevee:

Eevee enables far too much of the tier to allow for any consistent counterplay. GSC ZU, in its current state, is defined heavily by offensively potent special attackers, which are boosted to broken levels with access to the boosts from growth pass. Counterplay is either easy to capitalize on by gpass teams, or inconsistent as all hell. I am in favor of Eevee being placed front and center on the council's radar, I believe it should be

WARNING: This does not have anything to do with the reasons for banning eevee, but rather the impact the eevee question has on the meta currently

I think it's worth noting that eevee is an incredibly large question for the meta right now, and I think that it really does mess up the meta perspective on other potentially problematic mons. It creates a sort of "Clouding effect" which makes it hard to visualize a meta without it. And of course, this is true with every meta in existence when suspecting a mon, but I do think here it is especially prominent, because eevee directly plays a role in other top tiers influence in GSC ZU. If the meta continues to play out as it has in the past week, I believe it would be beneficial to answer the eevee question first.

DISCLAIMER: I'd recommend going into the next two with a fresh mind, because they are comparatively quite tame when contrasted with eevee. Still, I do think both of these are worth being looked into in the future.

:gs/beedrill:

Is that another mon in gsc which is problematic due to an incredibly wide range of options at their disposal, making counterplay inconsistent? Compared to the two other potential suspects, beedrill is oddly enough, the most counter able of the suspects in the meta, with actual checks and counters. It also helps that bee isn't really connected to eevee all that much, allowing it to be better analyzed without the others presence

:beedrill: Set Diversity on the strongest wallbreaker in the tier :beedrill:

I think it's important to point out what set diversity looks like when you're running a mon a strong as beedrill, because it really does turn this thing from being strong to being broken. Now don't get it confused, beedrill is far from the only mon to have this level of set diversity, if anything bee really isn't all that special, but what this does do for beedrill is make a large difference in response from the opposition.

Lets first look at the response to Bee's wallbreaker sets. Typically, depending on the set you can quite consistently beat it by revenge killing with charmeleon, because bee isn't going to be running that agillity to try and clean up the game, meaning that bee ends up being somewhat threatening, but not necessarily your typical definition of a wincon. You beat this type of bee with momentum and properly calling out and sacriaficing the right mons at the right time. Now, if you take this mentlity and try to beat double dance bee with it, then you open yourself up to get cooked by bee's setup if you don't play your cards correctly, and this isn't hard to do on the bee user's behalf, because bee boasts very solid vbulk, allowing it to go toe to ote with amajority of the tier. This mix-up ends up being amplified by bee's strong stats, which are what in the end makes it very problematic for the tier.

:Onix: Polarity in counters :Charmeleon:

Rather than talk about what the checks and counters of bee actually do, I think it's much more important to understand how they play into the matchcup as a whole. This may be kind of unclear, so I'll try to explain it. Bee is not un-counterable, in fact its sets can pretty easily be stopped by a handfull of mons in the tier. The issue with bee, is the exclusivity in counters. With a many mons in the tier, not directly packing an awnser can be made up for with proper counterplay and making the correct call-outs in game. This is a major component of teambuilding which you must account for in basically every tier. Where beedrill differs from this formula, is it exclusively has counters. A large majority of the tier, can't break through beedrill because they don't pack the offensive ability to break such a bulky mon. This gives beedrill a ton of opportunities to come in and sit on the opposition.

This is further amplified by the set diversity which beedrill possesses, which not only can change which of its counters it can effectively hits, but also completely changes the role which it has in a game, further making the already exclusive counterplay that much more exclusive. This ends up making certain games come down to what is almost a dice roll, because beedrill can sit on more than half of the tier and setup. This makes beedrill need to be answered as soon as possible. Compounding this, his answers are either too offensive to switch in, or lack sufficient recovery to not be hassled by it. And that's not even it. Beedrill also packs enough move pool variety, so it can even counter a lot of the common bulkier mons.

Beedrill can be answered, in many games, but it is so bulky, and so diverse that it is both easy to get in, and simultaneously difficult to call out. I am in favor of beedrill being placed on the radar.

:gs/voltorb:

Voltorb is actually pretty hard to quantify as to why it is a problem for the tier, because its good attributes are spread so thin, that it's easy to be overlooked. To add insult to injury, it is the most impacted by eevee's presence in the meta


:staryu: :Bayleef: The impact of pseudo-boltbeam in a tier defined by waters:Ivysaur: :mantine:

It can be tempting to look at voltorb as a simple late game cleaner with low offenses and a good speed stat as no different from the others, but i do think that a few things push it over the edge in many areas. The problem is that they're spread relatively thin across all areas of voltorb, making it kind of hard to pin down what is exactly so strong about it. For starters, we need to look at what voltorb's pseudo-boltbeam does versus the meta.

The pseudo-bolt beam (HP-Ice + tbolt) is extremely oppressive in the current meta, as it allows voltorb to hit a majority of the bulky mons in the tier. HP Ice can deal some pretty good damage to mosts of the grasses in the tier. Keep in mind, that these grasses are going to be incredibly low at the end of the game to play into orb's low damage. But even under the presumption that your opponent managed to keep the grasses somewhat healthy, orb still does maintain the sufficient bulk to chunk a handfull of the opponent's hits, meaning you can reverse a bad grass MU.

And while HP ice isn't necessarily the strongest mon, I do feel like the strength of STAB tbolt can't be understated in the meta right now, anything it doesn't hit with tbolt, it can hit with HP Ice. I do think the main problem with voltorb is that its counterplay sort of doesn't exist, especially as late into the game as it comes out. Late game voltorb's main counter is opposing voltorb coming in and trading with it, otherwise you're forced to run the game 5:6 to counter it in the late game.

:Voltorb: Late game centralization :Voltorb:

A lot of what is truly problematic with orb does end up appearing far later into a game than usual. Without eevee, orb isn't blatantly broken and easily able to win games, but it does lead to late game being heavily centralized around its success. Orb's bulk plays a really important role into this, because it allows it to easily 1v1 the late game offensive mons which would usually be able to trade with orb. Mons which are hit neutrally by orb and fire back just can't 1hko orb in the late game, meaning most of the time games end up coming down to an orb 1v1. This centralization can end up restricting the late game to a very binary meta which could be problematic for gsc zu.


:diglett: But didn't we already have this before? :diglett:

The main difference between orb and mons like diglett is that while diglett did have similar coverage in quakeslide, diglett lacked the ability to hit the bulkiest mons in the tier super-effectively with STAB. Similarly, Diglett did not fall out of a coconut tree, diglett existed in the context of a meta which was far less offensively oriented then the one today. Orb hits some of the strongest mons in the tier super-effectively with STAB, and the main mons which can awnser it are constantly being pressured due to the presence of waters hitting the field almost every other turn. it's definitely a difference of context rather than outright power.

:Voltorb: Conclusion on Voltorb :Voltorb:

orb is definitely the least quantitatively problematic mon in GSC ZU right now. I do think that its speed tier and solid stats should have it be looked at as a potentially broken mon. While I wouldn't be opposed to voltorb being on the council's radar, I do also believe that any tiering decisions involving voltorb would greatly benefit from experimentation after decisions are made on eevee.

Really just bringing this up because I think that voltorb's screen set is pretty much unproblematic right now. Like yes, it does enable the two mentioned above, but I do not think it's really exclusive to voltorb, and can more or less be replicated. On the flip side I do think that this in no way protects voltorb from tiering action, as this can be easily replicated by other mons. Still, I feel like the indifference this set poses should be mentioned.

General Conclusion

Overall, I do think that the meta is in an incredibly volatile state at the moment, and I do still definitely believe that we need time to develop our positions on what is and isn't healthy. The goal of this analysis is not to directly call for any bans or tiering action to take place within GSC ZU. The goal of this is to call to attention potentially problematic mons within the tier, who should be further investigated to determine whether or not they are truly problematic for the tier. Calling for an outright ban or other tiering action this early into the new metagame is, for lack of a better term, stupid and definitely jumping the gun. I'd encourage others to further develop their ideas because this forum post is far from gospel.

> However everything else I've said is gospel just not this forum post.
 

ADV ZU Council has voted Corsola for Suspect Testing!

:rs/corsola:


Reasoning
This will be Corsola's second time on the chopping block, as it was quick banned when it first dropped into the tier a few months ago and has remained a contentious Pokemon since its recent reintroduction. Corsola has a bevy of perks that thrust it to the top of the metagame, with the threat of becoming too straining to deal with in games. With 32 pp Recover and Natural Cure, Corsola is a strong contender for one of the best defensive Pokémon in the tier, almost forcing Hidden Power [Grass] coverage by itself to deal with it. On the contrary, Calm Mind variants provide Corsola an option to turn its defensive opportunities into offensive win conditions by threatening game-ending sweeps if given enough free turns.

On paper, Corsola's bulk is very comparable, if not slightly worse, to other ZU defensive options in the tier like Mightyena, Ariados, and Koffing. Lileep in particular possesses slightly more bulk, also has access to Recover, and has comparatively fewer notable weaknesses to common attacks. With a x4 weakness to Grass, both offensive and defensive Pokémon can run Hidden Power coverage to heavily punish Corsola and prevent it from safely healing itself back up with Recover such as Quilava, Noctowl, and Wartortle. Pokemon like Chinchou, Gloom, and Tropius can all threaten with their STABs while taking little from Surf in return. Lastly, Corsola's paltry base speed can lead to it being outsped by almost any other Pokémon in the tier, providing opportunities for more niche options like Rhyhorn and Cubone to deal devasting damage with their STAB Earthquakes.

Despite these points, Corsola usually manages to find a way to put itself in a position to force the opponent to make risky plays or assumptions that can lead to game-ending blunders. Corsola can often find free turns to set up with its notable resistance to Normal-type attacks. After a couple boosts, it becomes significantly difficult to power through it with super-effective coverage. Refresh eliminates the option of using status to force Corsola to switch out if it's in the process of setting up, while Ice Beam threatens Grass-types that would otherwise be able to switch-in without much risk. In addition, Corsola has other sets like Sunny Day + Boom and Choice Band that operate completely differently from the standard defensive or CM sets. With all of this in consideration, the council deemed Corsola will receive a suspect test.

Requirements:

Requirements can be achieved by getting minimum 75 GXE in 25 games on the [Gen 3] ZU ladder. In order to participate in the suspect, you must create a fresh alt (creation date no earlier than 8/11/2024) with the prefix ZUCOR at the start of the name. When you have obtained the reqs, make sure to post proof of your alt's record (generally a screenshot) in this thread, and if you wish to do so, you can also share your thoughts on the test here.

Voting:
Once the suspect period is over, everyone who has obtained reqs will be tagged. The post will then outline a process of blind voting, which will be clarified once the time arrives. For now, follow the above "Requirements" subheading to ensure that you have posted your reqs correctly. You must post on this thread in order to be tagged in the voting thread, however you do not need to include your vote on this thread.

A super-majority of 60% ban votes is required for Corsola to be banned.

TL;DR
-Corsola will be allowed on ladder
- The minimum GXE requirement is 75 and the minimum game count is 25
- You must ladder on a newly-created alt using the prefix ZUCOR
- You must post your reqs in this thread, though the voting process will happen in a separate thread. You are not required to state your vote in this thread.
- The suspect test will conclude on Saturday 24 August at 11:59 PM GMT-5
- A ban vote of 60% is required to ban Corsola in ADV ZU.
 
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Hey everyone! What are the current BL mons on ADV ZU and is there any items that are affected with the ban as well?
Posting this question here since I cannot find a proper thread for ADV ZU's current BL mons of the tier and I just wanted to make sure I don't get Disqualified to the upcoming 3rd Round of ADV GoldRush tour. Cheers!
 
Hey everyone! What are the current BL mons on ADV ZU and is there any items that are affected with the ban as well?
Posting this question here since I cannot find a proper thread for ADV ZU's current BL mons of the tier and I just wanted to make sure I don't get Disqualified to the upcoming 3rd Round of ADV GoldRush tour. Cheers!
just challange in the adv zu format in the roa spotlight if you validate in that format it automaticaly says if your team is ok heres a picture of the zu bl. though lairion and shedninja should be pu by vr not zu bl
1724140826943.png
 
Corsola; Broken or Balanced?
ani_e_222.gif

I got the requirements for the Corsola suspect test and wanted to give my opinion on the Pokemon after laddering with and against it multiple times. To start, lets cover what sets Corsola uses in the metagame.

Corsola @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Ice Beam / Psychic / Refresh
- Recover
- Calm Mind

Corsola @ Choice Band
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Hidden Power [Rock] / Ancient Power
- Earthquake
- Surf
- Explosion

These are the most common Corsola sets I see within the metagame. The set that has kicked off this suspect test has been its Calm Mind set. This set acts as a bulky wincon that when Corsola's answers have been dealt with can clean a game with ease. It has some set diversity, as Ice Beam, Psychic, and Refresh are all viable to stop either Tropius, Tentacool, or forcing it out with Toxic respectively.

Choice Band is a less common set that you'll probably see on more offensive teams using Hustle. Rock is a great offensive typing with limited resistances and Hustle with a Choice Band gives Corsola amazing power at the cost of losing a lot of its defensive utility. Most people agree that this set is fine and not the main reason that Corsola has been brought up for a suspect test, but it does add into set diversity when facing Corsola.

Now you know what Corsola does in the tier, I will be voting Do not Ban; here is why.

There are multiple splashable answers to Corsola available in the tier which I will list here

:seaking: :wartortle: :chinchou: :clamperl: :flaaffy: :sunflora: :gloom:

All of the Pokemon mentioned above have a way of shutting down Corsola, and there are more possibly that can work depending on Corsola's set, such as Tropius. Some Pokemon really stand out here as big Corsola punishers however and I would like to highlight them as I believe they shut down Corsola entirely.

ani_e_366.gif

Clamperl

Clamperl is excellent at punishing Corsola teams. Corsola cannot hit Clamperl for significant damage on most sets giving Clamperl a free entry point, and on a Pokemon as strong as Clamperl, this usually means a free KO. This is a pretty big deal as Corsola finds itself switching into many Pokemon such as Aipom and Ponyta throughout a game, and being able to punish that by picking up a KO with Clamperl is almost unfair versus many teams Corsola finds itself on.
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Seaking

Seaking needs no introduction. Arguably still the best Pokemon available in the tier, it's able to switch into Corsola and threaten it out with either special sets or Choice Band sets. It's not as destructive as Clamperl in this matchup but it can still get the job done and threaten out Corsola immediately whilst also using it as a breaking opportunity.
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Gloom

Gloom usage has skyrocketed ever since Corsola joined the tier and it was already used a lot in the tier before. It's a hard stop for any Corsola team as Razor Leaf or Hidden Power Grass shreds Corsola entirely while being bulky enough to not care about whatever Corsola tries to do. If Corsola does anything in a game, than Gloom has to be removed first.

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Chinchou

Lastly, Chinchou has the perfect typing to take on Corsola hitting it super effectively with Thunderbolt and resisting Surf, allowing it to use Corsola as offensive momentum. Out of all the answers above I do think this one is probably the most liable to being whittled down but it takes a lot of turns for this to actually happen when most turns Corsola will be recovering off damage its taken from switching into dangerous threats.

Summary

To wrap it up, I think Corsola is a healthy addition to the tier that can be a bulky wincon for more slower based teams or a breaker for offensive teams. Calm Mind has plenty of answers available in the tier and some more offensive checks that I haven't even listed here like Meditite and Cubone. I would suggest that if you are struggling with Corsola that you try some of the above Pokemon and I encourage you to play and formulate your own opinions on Corsola as well.

Happy laddering my lovely ADV ZU people and I hope you enjoy your day.​
 
since im out of the adv zu gold rush...

https://pokepast.es/8601166943c8d939
new set compendium dropped
have fun!


oh yeah heres some funny sets ive been enjoying using too (not gonna have as much effort as the post in the actual adv zu smog post)
(e) Rain Chesto (Seaking) @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Rain Dance
somebody in the adv zu discord posted a replay of their ass getting beat by chesto rest rain dance and i thought it was pretty funny so here it is
resto chesto is super nice for switching in and getting rid of paras spread by special walls that'd switch into rain dance sets, but also its super nice for just healing back up to survive a quick attack or try again at a sweep
credit goes to whoever beat somebodys ass with this set on ladder
(e) CM Lure (Delcatty) @ Leftovers
Ability: Cute Charm
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Def / 196 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Wish
- Calm Mind
- Ice Beam
delcattys been getting some (undeserved) hate when its cooler older brother in mightyena dropped down, normal delcattys still solid but i also enjoy cm sets
people are used to delcatty being almost the most passive thing in the tier, with this the rock resists get bamboozled and flaaffy isnt happy getting setup on, grass + ice coverage is pretty much perfect in the tier bar the fire types that delcatty will usually lose to anyway, i recommend this one if you feelin funny

mostly just wanted to post this to show off the set compendium lol
 
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adv vr update since we've completed a suspect test and are deep in the trenches of the gold rush tour, and therefore have had time to observe the meta and its developments!
:abra: NEW --> A
:aipom: NEW --> A+
:chinchou: NEW --> B+
:corsola: NEW --> A+
:mightyena: NEW --> A
:tropius: NEW --> A
:gloom: A --> A+
:castform: B+ --> A-
:clamperl: B+ --> A
:drowzee: B --> B+
:cubone: B- --> B
:smoochum: B- --> B
:horsea: C+ --> B-
:rhyhorn: C+ --> B
:voltorb: C+ --> B-
:dustox: C --> C+
:seaking: S --> A+
:flaaffy: A+ --> A-
:porygon: A+ --> A
:anorith: A --> A-
:noctowl: A --> A-
:quilava: A --> B+
:wartortle: A --> B
:ariados: B+ --> B
:butterfree: B --> B-
:spoink: B --> C
:staryu: B --> B-
:wailmer: B --> C+
:weepinbell: B --> B-
:numel: B- --> UR
:exeggcute: C+ --> C
:farfetchd: C+ --> C
:onix: C+ --> C
:shuppet: C+ --> C
:aron: C --> UR
:bayleef: C --> UR
:dratini: C --> UR
:grimer: C --> UR
:larvitar: C --> UR
:parasect: C --> UR
 
been a week since the vr, time to discuss stuff because its fun
here's mine too!
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(horsea b- btw this maker didnt have it)
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clamperl b+-> a (+2)
clamperl pre-drops was considered a complete noob trap and like low b tier at the best, it was super hated by most people, it would have probably dropped out of the tier if corsola didnt arrive
corsola is the perfect entry point for clamperl and once clamperls in it's very hard to stop. perl was always strong as shit, but special walls were infact more common, wartortle and noctowl were all the checks to this thing and they've fallen off, especially wartortle
however, clamperl is definitely NOT deserving of the a spot, like holy, its obviously strong and generally benefitted from the drops, but this is absurd especially when its alongside STAPLES like koffing, abra and mightyena, it is clear this things shtick of "click big surf" doesnt compete with these at all.
i will say though, writing off clamperl immediately was pretty funny, especially when a discussion around fucking lead clamperl arose and everybody was shitting on it so hard
my placement - b+ (-2 difference compared to vr)
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smoochum b- -> b (+1)
i could get it with clamperl i guess but this is kind of insane
little baby pre-drops was actually very underrated and pretty great, its stab combo was super strong and effective, it could sweep games with sub-salac sets and even invest in slight bulk to switch into more passive mons to wreak havoc, i liked it a lot and thought it deserved a rise
now that the drops have happened, there is 0 reason to use this over abra. it's got ice stab which is like nice but abra gets ice punch and the extra power of ice beam doesnt offset the power discrepancy and not being able to petaya up, its so sad. using smoochum alongside abra is probably the best way to use this thing and even then it's still super hard to fit
it doesn't help that abra is a super top threat that every good team accounts for, every abra check bodies this thing ten fold into oblivion
my placement - c- (-4 difference compared to vr)
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butterfree b -> b- (-1)
sleep ban lol, use masq, dk why people ranked this thing but my guess is that people forgot sleep ban
my placement - UR (-3/4 difference compared to vr)
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wartortle a -> b (-4)
the biggest fall off in the vr, wartortle has had quite the shake up after 2 new waters dropped, corsola and chinchou are both competition for wartortle and the metagame shake ups also made the other waters like tentacool and clamperl get much better by comparison
pre-drops it was sitting comfy as almost the go-to defensive pokemon, checking dangerous threats like ponyta quilava seaking and basically most of the tier bar the electrics and grasses
honestly i do get this fall off, but wartortles good traits are still pretty god damn fantastic. his defensive stats are superb, and he can still check all of the aforementioned threats that are still very good, along with checking a few new mons like clamperl and abra. now the question is "is the extra bulk worth losing power against chinchou and clamperl?" in my opinion, yes. wartortles still threatening offensively with hp grass and surfs doing enough damage to scare off stuff wanted to sit on it like corsola and the bulk is so helpful with offense being arguably better then it was before. this led me to put wartortle in a pretty comfy spot right above clamperl in my list
my placement - b+ (+1 difference compared to vr)
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quilava a -> b+ (-3)
quilava was not a pokemon i was expecting to get greatly nerfed in the vr but here we are
mister slug got some new enemies in chinchou, clamperl, tentacool and drowzee compared to last meta, but he's also loving the fall offs of wartortle staryu and noctowl, with gloom and tropius also being newly improved victims, still a negative trade off but its not nearly as bad as the vr would make you think
its still doing what it always did, it clicks its insanely strong fire moves, but sun is now better so it does that more often, but i juts think people aren't using it as often purely cause theres developments around it instead of with it, also its a fantastic corsola lure so theres that, sitting it conformably at the top of a-
my placement - a- (+1 difference compared to vr)
1726043326181.png

delcatty - unchanged (b)
like i briefly mentioned in my last post, delcattys getting some real hate right now and i do not think it is deserved to such a high extent
pre-drops delcatty was pretty much the most blanket spd wall ever with super nice support and consistent healing and was generally considered higher then b
delcatty gained a rival in the form of mightyena and to a lesser extent drowzee, who both do the blanket support special wall better in the peoples eyes. i love mightyena, super fun mon but delcattys still got its advantageous traits against yena and drowzee
the main thing is wish which the yena would DIE for, this makes delcatty way more irritating for special attackers who just cant get enough damage before delcatty either just gets a bslam para or pivots into another mon. another trait delcatty has is able to absorb toxics way better then drowzee who has to scout them out or just get destroyed immediately. delcattys also super nice role compression, mightyena doesnt have that much staying power and drowzee cant absorb status, and using both not only gives you a horrific bug weakness, but also is even more passive then using 1 delcatty.
delcatty's obviously got its issues and its not perfect, its prone to getting fed on by setup sweepers, its prone to revenge kills by physical attackers, and its passive against slow pokemon. but its got use and i love using it on my defensive oriented teams over yena, sitting it pretty high at the higher b+
my placement - b+ (+1 difference compared to vr)
1726044375878.png

onix - c+ -> c (-1)
onix has always been kind of a niche mon in adv zu, always existing but being kinda forgotten
pre-drops it was baby graveler that had speed, now its baby rhyhorn that has speed and explosion! i saw a lot of people putting it like low b, and people putting it low a so it was quite a polarizing pokemon
rhyhorn is sitting way above him in the tier list even though onix has almost the exact same match up spread, just being a good amount weaker but faster and has explosion
i do think onix being so low is more people not using it instead of it being bad, it's kinda like golem in rby ou where its not super easy to fit on teams but effective over its counterpart in the right scenario, also like golem in the sense it booms and has a better speed tier, out speeding almost every significant wall and threatening them with boom. onix would fit into structures that rhyhorn would, but team mates that appreciate momentum and chipping down the waters like seaking ponyta aipom and mightyena would want onix more
overall snake pretty good and definitely deserves to be higher then fucking smoochum and butterfree come on guys
my placement - b (+3 difference compared to vr)
1726045166762.png

grimer - c -> UR (-2/-1 depends if you got c- or d)
finally an easy pokemon, grimer's basically koffings cousin with the significant difference of curse
grimer has always been a low tier koffing alternative that had strong booms and curse, and hasn't been used outside of that
however, grimer definitely warents more moveset experimentation, it's always gonna run curse rest sludge bomb, no getting around that
but the 4th move can make or break your game, historically its usually just been like sleep talk, but explosion is honestly really good at luring in especially corsola, at +2 sludge bomb into explosion just fucking kills it and grimer can run spd invest to get 5hkod without boosts from corsola
obviously niche, but that niche is genuinely very unique and at its worst it can also just act like koffing jr. which definitely isnt a bad trait to have
my placement - b- (+3/4 difference compared to vr)
1726045954014.png

snubbul - unchanged (UR)
most fucked up case of people forgetting about heat for SURE
now you might be asking "what the fuck does snubbul do?" warning: it doesnt use heal bell
snubbul is purely a lead, a choice band lead thats meant to tank an attack and fucking NUKE something with a 80 atk banded stab double edge, way stronger then cb mightyena and also bulkier but is slower in exchange
not joking here, i like cb snubbul OVER mightyena, the bulk allows it to have some staying power outside of the lead slot and its so scary to fight that is kind of insane, later game it can also help break walls with its INSANELY strong double edge, peep this calc
216+ Atk Choice Band Snubbull Double-Edge (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corsola: 90-106 (28.6 - 33.7%) -- 98.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
overall, a not bad pokemon that you guys need to not be SLEEPIN on, credit to SEA for making this set and showing what snubbul can do
Snubbull @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 236 HP / 216 Atk / 16 Def / 32 SpD / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Return
- Brick Break
my placement - c+ (+2/3 difference compared to vr)



will add more later, just want to get this out now cause i think its funny
 

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:gs/eevee: GSC Update :gs/voltorb:
First off, apologies for the lack of communication to the player base. There were reassurances made that were not followed up on in prompt time, for one reason or another (in my case, bluntly, lack of motivation). We had our RoA ladder and spotlight tour which provided valuable exposure to the metagame, allowing for a larger sample size of games. That came and went without any action. Now with GSC Cup on the horizon, the council produced its long-awaited ban slate, which carries the following results:

Topic of Discussion​
Result​
Beedrill​
Ban​
Eevee / Baton Pass​
Eevee Ban​
Mantine​
No Ban​
Staryu​
Ban​
Voltorb​
No Ban​


Thus, Beedrill, Eevee, and Staryu are BANNED from GSC ZU. Baton Pass, Mantine, and Voltorb will remain legal. For those interested, the tallied votes were nearly unanimous across the board. We will continue working on updating samples and other resources.
 
Last edited:
With ZUPL over, I thought it'd be a good time to discuss my feelings in the different old gens I helped assist the players in. (super shouts to the shiinotics for letting me rock it w them in their chat)

ORAS:
Honestly, this tier just feels so underdeveloped at a touch, getting the chance to look at the tier again after not having played it for so long it felt almost too comfortable. Regardless thanks to 5gen and tier for tests and running my builds respectively. Webs offense and hazard stacks are extremely powerful, and I think they definitely need to keep being explored. As for stacks, I've noticed a huge difference in the effectiveness of teams that let themselves run a Zwelious + Poison core to get their presence established, since the fairy options for this tier are so limited.

:quilladin: :hippopotas: :politoed: :zweilous: :seviper: :electabuzz:
https://pokepast.es/ae373a178811d07a

In spirit of sharing some teams, this was a highlight for me, bringing tier to 2 wins in tour and letting me really solidify my theory on how effective spikes are in this tier in a practical environment. Scarf Seviper is extremely underrated and pairs very well with zweilous as a balanced core for moving threats out with phasing and threatening big damage on Wigglytuff without having to worry about being walled out as much due to switcheroo. Definitely a fun build that I had a lot of time to iron out with it showing its effectiveness to match the effort.

:Raticate: :kricketune: :banette: :gigalith: :meowstic-f: :electabuzz:
https://pokepast.es/b9a85b95d2c6c1e9

Just a strong webs I ended up liking enough to share. Pretty straightforward build and is a good load into most mus without a lot of struggle.

ORAS VR Stuff:
I'd put Servine and Electabuzz in the same tier. Honestly they're of similar power and I don't think the gap between them is so big as to justify S- being a thing.

:Zweilous: > A-
Hazards are broken, this mon fits into a lot of teams really well when abusing hazard phase, fairies and fightings in this tier are honestly in a weird spot due to how good their answers are. Please raise this.

:Kricketune: > B
Webs good this mon should reflect webs being good.

:Sawsbuck: > B+
Just feels insanely slow to put into teams when I want a fast normal, and with how much competition there is for grasses in the tier, I find it hard to slot in. Still strong just represents it better to not be so high on the VR.

:Emolga: > UR
5gen tested the rat into me a lot it's very weak. Leave this guy in BW.


BW:
I'll have more to say here later, harass me to make a bw megapost after BWPL because I have a lot to say but want to keep my mouth shut until the other tour with this tier is over with.
shout-out Thor for being the fucking goat

DPP:
Shing please post your teams for this tour you need to farm likes too + you built a lot with quagg after i went off on a mission to narnia

But genuinely, this is the most fun I've ever had building this tier as I think the preparation from all of the competition was actually at a level above every other ZUPL that's happened so far. Thanks to HSOWA for testing some cool stuff with me as well.

(i didn't like any of my dpp teams enough to feature post sorry haha. they'll be in my big team dump soon.)

DPP VR Stuff:
:Carnivine: > S

Best grass in the metagame, extremely splashable, I think sleep may honestly have too much impact in the tier but that's not my place to argue.

:Diglett: > Low A

The more I played with Trap the more i realized it's presence in the tier is genuinely very overwhelming in many matchups especially with spikes/tspikes on field.

:Mawile: > High A
:Granbull: > Low A
:Budew: > High B
:Slaking: > High B

Batch nom since I think throughout tests every single one of these guys proved to be extremely underrated. Slaking in particular surprised me since often times in testing it would begin to force trade downs to win rather easily in endgames. With a protect user it's quite bad but it's a matchup fish worth getting out of C for sure.

:Combusken: > High B
:Shelgon: > High B

Very efficient cleaners. Low B undersells them both but not by much. Shelgon also had a pretty good run in the early stages of the tour if I'm remembering correctly.

:Anorith: > Low C

Extremely fun cleaner give it a try oddly not that bad to use. SD LOrb in particular does shocking damage but its very frail so I don't rate it highly.


Thanks again to everyone especially OranBerryBlissey10 for letting me hang in the server.
 
Here's a DPP ZU Viability Rankings update, as well as my quick perspective on the changes and metagame overall.

The voters were me, wooper, BeatsBlack, Drud, and HSOWA. I would share the full slate, but I gave up after copy+paste failed. The DPP ZU Hub has been updated accordingly, so go look at that.

:pelipper:
Low A --> High A
:golbat:
High B --> Low A
:lairon:
High B --> Low A
:stantler:
High B --> Low A
:ivysaur:
Low B --> Low A
:bibarel:
Low B --> High B
:lopunny:
Low B --> High B
:shelgon:
Low B --> High B
:swalot:
Low B --> High B
:bronzor:
High C --> Low B
:exploud:
High C --> Low B
:flareon:
High C --> Low B
:marshtomp:
High C --> Low B
:sudowoodo:
High C --> Low B
:clamperl:
Low C --> High C
:prinplup:
UR --> High C
:wigglytuff:
Low C --> High C
:gloom:
High B --> Low B
:grotle:
High B --> Low B

:luxray:

Luxray is still the quintessential Pokemon in DPP ZU. The RestTalk Toxic set checks half of the metagame, SubTox punishes Grounds, Hidden Powers are customizable, and offensive sets like Mixed Orb and Choice Band catch surprising KOs. Luxray's Superpower can hurt, and it's the best 'Fighting' Pokemon in the metagame. Offensive Superpower 2HKOs a fat Camerupt, and Ice Fang deletes Grasses. Also, Life Orb Quick Attack OHKOs Diglett.

:pelipper:

Pelipper has skyrocketed all the way up to High A over the past few slates. If your team doesn't pass the Pelipper test, then you're going to get cooked. HP Electric is once again a solid coverage move on Water types and I'd recommend Toxic on setup fodder to mitigate Agility Pelipper's effectiveness. Pelipper's fairly one-dimensional in its role, but items are splashable and Roost/Substitute lead to mindgames in battle. This is one of the best offensive weapons in DPP ZU, so running it defensively is a waste.

:phione::wailord::dewgong:
"Waters" almost always refers to Phione, Wailord, and Dewgong. Crawdaunt is a Dancer, Whiscash is a Ground, and the rest are Frauds. Phione is my favorite since it's faster than Luxray and has Heal Bell. Wailord is fatter with Explosion, Water Spout, and a true resistance to Lava Plume. Dewgong's Ice STAB cuts up the usual Grass-type switch-ins. Unless you're running Seadra, I'd argue that it's essential to run one of these.

:carnivine:
:ivysaur:
:gloom:
:grotle:

Carnivine is obviously the best Grass, but Ivysaur has become the clear second. Gloom's higher Defense was more valuable in Kingler metagame (though Stun Spore and Chlorophyll do keep it viable) and Grotle is a relic that shoehorns Stealth Rock onto a team. Ivysaur is SpDef Carnivine with a Toxic immunity, so it's the most reliable answer to Phione/Wailord + Toxic Luxray. Leaf Storm has similar OHKO power to Power Whip. Sleep Powder can punish resists. Base 60 Speed is solid and can be easily crept above the 196 threshold. Ivysaur is good.

:golbat:
:lairon:
:stantler:
:bibarel:
:shelgon:
:sudowoodo:
:bronzor:
:exploud:
:wigglytuff:

I'll lump a couple of rises together here. Nasty Plot Golbat has seen a resurgence -- it has a nice move pool, great speed, and Roost keeps it around. Rock Polish Lairon is a demon when Head Smash hits, and a lot of recent teams don't seem to account for it. Stantler is a great breaker, and Intimidate + base 85 Speed help it find openings throughout a game. Bibarel all but guarantees Stealth Rock, and both abilities are viable. Shelgon has multiple viable DD sets that all have different answers. Sudowoodo has Wood Hammer. Bronzor resists everything. Exploud has a mouth. Wigglytuff is fat.

:swalot:

Swalot blanket-checks a lot of the metagame. It has great coverage options, versatile utility moves, and the bulk to sit on DPP ZU's top threats. I think Swalot's best sets include RestTalk to grant longevity while blanking Sleep Powder, and Curse RestTalk can run away with games quickly. Sticky Hold is also slick to combat Trick and Switcheroo.

:lopunny:

Speaking of tricks, Lopunny might be the trickiest Pokemon in DPP ZU. Klutz + Switcheroo punishes everything, Healing Wish can flip games, solid bulk backed by Heal Bell lets it serve as a cleric, boosting moves + Baton Pass can snowball, and it's a viable offensive threat with coverage for everything. Plus, it's only outsped naturally by Persian. You almost always need to respect the bad-item-Switcheroo at first sight which can lead to ugly lines if it's different Lopunny set. I think this Pokemon is very slept-on.

:marshtomp:

Marshtomp's access to Stealth Rock and Ice Punch makes it a better pick than Whiscash at times. DD Whiscash is clearly more threatening, but you'd be surprised at Marshtomp's damage output and utility. It stilI checks most Luxray sets too. I was very high on this Pokemon during ZUPL.

:prinplup:

Prinplup is finally ranked, and it only took Drud a couple years of dunking on the DPP ZU pool with the same Prinplup team to make it happen.
 
ZU Classic VI Usage
Format taken from BeatsBlack's post from the previous Classic
BW
:solrock:

Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Solrock            |   72 |  51.43% |  55.56% |
| 2    | Persian            |   54 |  38.57% |  53.70% |
| 3    | Grumpig            |   47 |  33.57% |  48.94% |
| 4    | Simisear           |   43 |  30.71% |  55.81% |
| 5    | Emolga             |   38 |  27.14% |  47.37% |
| 6    | Leafeon            |   37 |  26.43% |  48.65% |
| 7    | Staryu             |   35 |  25.00% |  45.71% |
| 7    | Lairon             |   35 |  25.00% |  42.86% |
| 9    | Muk                |   32 |  22.86% |  53.12% |
| 10   | Arbok              |   31 |  22.14% |  45.16% |
| 10   | Clefairy           |   31 |  22.14% |  41.94% |
| 10   | Meganium           |   31 |  22.14% |  35.48% |
| 13   | Raichu             |   27 |  19.29% |  48.15% |
| 14   | Walrein            |   26 |  18.57% |  57.69% |
| 14   | Whiscash           |   26 |  18.57% |  46.15% |
| 16   | Kingler            |   25 |  17.86% |  72.00% |
| 17   | Shelgon            |   19 |  13.57% |  73.68% |
| 18   | Wormadam-Trash     |   18 |  12.86% |  50.00% |
| 19   | Mienfoo            |   15 |  10.71% |  40.00% |
| 20   | Glaceon            |   13 |   9.29% |  30.77% |
| 21   | Pawniard           |   12 |   8.57% |  75.00% |
| 21   | Ivysaur            |   12 |   8.57% |  66.67% |
| 21   | Mr. Mime           |   12 |   8.57% |  50.00% |
| 21   | Pelipper           |   12 |   8.57% |  25.00% |
| 25   | Flareon            |    9 |   6.43% |  66.67% |
| 25   | Frillish           |    9 |   6.43% |  55.56% |
| 27   | Leavanny           |    8 |   5.71% |  75.00% |
| 28   | Beedrill           |    6 |   4.29% |  50.00% |
| 28   | Graveler           |    6 |   4.29% |  33.33% |
| 30   | Luxray             |    5 |   3.57% |  80.00% |
| 30   | Abra               |    5 |   3.57% |  80.00% |
| 30   | Bibarel            |    5 |   3.57% |  60.00% |
| 30   | Vibrava            |    5 |   3.57% |  60.00% |
| 30   | Munchlax           |    5 |   3.57% |  20.00% |
| 35   | Pikachu            |    4 |   2.86% |  75.00% |
| 35   | Phione             |    4 |   2.86% |  25.00% |
| 35   | Illumise           |    4 |   2.86% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Octillery          |    3 |   2.14% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Budew              |    3 |   2.14% |  66.67% |
| 38   | Golett             |    3 |   2.14% |  66.67% |
| 38   | Hippopotas         |    3 |   2.14% |  33.33% |
| 38   | Nosepass           |    3 |   2.14% |  33.33% |
| 38   | Gastly             |    3 |   2.14% |  33.33% |
| 38   | Lunatone           |    3 |   2.14% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Beartic            |    3 |   2.14% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Vanilluxe          |    2 |   1.43% | 100.00% |
| 46   | Mothim             |    2 |   1.43% | 100.00% |
| 46   | Lampent            |    2 |   1.43% |  50.00% |
| 46   | Granbull           |    2 |   1.43% |  50.00% |
| 46   | Magnemite          |    2 |   1.43% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Raticate           |    2 |   1.43% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Kecleon            |    2 |   1.43% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Exploud            |    2 |   1.43% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Boldore            |    2 |   1.43% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Slaking            |    2 |   1.43% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Vullaby            |    2 |   1.43% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Bellossom          |    2 |   1.43% |   0.00% |
| 58   | Gloom              |    1 |   0.71% | 100.00% |
| 58   | Magmar             |    1 |   0.71% | 100.00% |
| 58   | Chimecho           |    1 |   0.71% | 100.00% |
| 58   | Heatmor            |    1 |   0.71% | 100.00% |
| 58   | Archen             |    1 |   0.71% | 100.00% |
| 58   | Mightyena          |    1 |   0.71% | 100.00% |
| 58   | Venipede           |    1 |   0.71% | 100.00% |
| 58   | Pineco             |    1 |   0.71% | 100.00% |
| 58   | Shelmet            |    1 |   0.71% |   0.00% |
| 58   | Girafarig          |    1 |   0.71% |   0.00% |
| 58   | Sandshrew          |    1 |   0.71% |   0.00% |
| 58   | Hypno              |    1 |   0.71% |   0.00% |
| 58   | Corsola            |    1 |   0.71% |   0.00% |
| 58   | Lopunny            |    1 |   0.71% |   0.00% |
DPP
:luxray:

Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Luxray             |   63 |  58.33% |  50.79% |
| 2    | Persian            |   40 |  37.04% |  45.00% |
| 3    | Carnivine          |   38 |  35.19% |  39.47% |
| 4    | Camerupt           |   33 |  30.56% |  57.58% |
| 5    | Phione             |   30 |  27.78% |  53.33% |
| 6    | Arbok              |   29 |  26.85% |  48.28% |
| 7    | Probopass          |   23 |  21.30% |  43.48% |
| 8    | Mawile             |   22 |  20.37% |  27.27% |
| 9    | Crawdaunt          |   20 |  18.52% |  45.00% |
| 10   | Wailord            |   19 |  17.59% |  63.16% |
| 10   | Wormadam-Trash     |   19 |  17.59% |  47.37% |
| 12   | Lunatone           |   18 |  16.67% |  38.89% |
| 13   | Whiscash           |   16 |  14.81% |  56.25% |
| 14   | Banette            |   14 |  12.96% |  42.86% |
| 15   | Granbull           |   13 |  12.04% |  76.92% |
| 15   | Golbat             |   13 |  12.04% |  46.15% |
| 15   | Pelipper           |   13 |  12.04% |  38.46% |
| 15   | Girafarig          |   13 |  12.04% |  38.46% |
| 19   | Chimecho           |   12 |  11.11% |  75.00% |
| 19   | Ivysaur            |   12 |  11.11% |  66.67% |
| 19   | Swalot             |   12 |  11.11% |  50.00% |
| 22   | Raticate           |   11 |  10.19% |  27.27% |
| 23   | Sableye            |   10 |   9.26% |  60.00% |
| 24   | Plusle             |    9 |   8.33% |  55.56% |
| 24   | Stantler           |    9 |   8.33% |  55.56% |
| 26   | Grotle             |    8 |   7.41% |  50.00% |
| 26   | Marshtomp          |    8 |   7.41% |  37.50% |
| 26   | Gloom              |    8 |   7.41% |  25.00% |
| 29   | Fearow             |    7 |   6.48% |  57.14% |
| 29   | Dewgong            |    7 |   6.48% |  42.86% |
| 31   | Diglett            |    6 |   5.56% |  50.00% |
| 31   | Butterfree         |    6 |   5.56% |  50.00% |
| 33   | Slaking            |    5 |   4.63% |  40.00% |
| 34   | Dunsparce          |    4 |   3.70% |  75.00% |
| 34   | Pineco             |    4 |   3.70% |  50.00% |
| 36   | Bibarel            |    3 |   2.78% |  66.67% |
| 36   | Grovyle            |    3 |   2.78% |  66.67% |
| 36   | Combusken          |    3 |   2.78% |  33.33% |
| 36   | Wigglytuff         |    3 |   2.78% |   0.00% |
| 36   | Omanyte            |    3 |   2.78% |   0.00% |
| 41   | Bayleef            |    2 |   1.85% | 100.00% |
| 41   | Vibrava            |    2 |   1.85% | 100.00% |
| 41   | Gastly             |    2 |   1.85% |  50.00% |
| 41   | Minun              |    2 |   1.85% |  50.00% |
| 41   | Kecleon            |    2 |   1.85% |  50.00% |
| 41   | Tentacool          |    2 |   1.85% |  50.00% |
| 41   | Shelgon            |    2 |   1.85% |  50.00% |
| 41   | Budew              |    2 |   1.85% |   0.00% |
| 49   | Anorith            |    1 |   0.93% | 100.00% |
| 49   | Tropius            |    1 |   0.93% | 100.00% |
| 49   | Lopunny            |    1 |   0.93% | 100.00% |
| 49   | Weepinbell         |    1 |   0.93% | 100.00% |
| 49   | Flareon            |    1 |   0.93% |   0.00% |
| 49   | Wartortle          |    1 |   0.93% |   0.00% |
| 49   | Prinplup           |    1 |   0.93% |   0.00% |
| 49   | Vigoroth           |    1 |   0.93% |   0.00% |
| 49   | Lairon             |    1 |   0.93% |   0.00% |
Missing 1 Pokemon from QUAGSGONEツ
Missing 1 Pokemon from ALICE KAZUMI
Missing 2 Pokemon from ALICE KAZUMI
Missing 1 Pokemon from QUAGSGONEツ
Missing 2 Pokemon from ABNXRMAL
Missing 1 Pokemon from ALICE KAZUMI
Missing 1 Pokemon from QUAGSGONEツ
Missing 1 Pokemon from ALICE KAZUMI
Missing 1 Pokemon from TEMPORAL TOTODILE
Missing 3 Pokemon from QUAGSGONEツ
Missing 1 Pokemon from QUAGSGONEツ
Missing 1 Pokemon from DRACOPOPE
Missing 1 Pokemon from LUSTFULLICE
Missing 1 Pokemon from QUAGSGONEツ
Missing 1 Pokemon from QUAGSGONEツ
Missing 2 Pokemon from QUAGSGONEツ
Missing 3 Pokemon from MISSANTHROPIC
Missing 1 Pokemon from MEDEYA
Missing 1 Pokemon from BANB4DORO
Missing 1 Pokemon from MONAI
Missing 1 Pokemon from ORANBERRYBLISSEY10
Missing 1 Pokemon from APTEDEPRESENCE
Missing 1 Pokemon from MONAI
Missing 1 Pokemon from SLEID
Missing 2 Pokemon from TEMPORAL TOTODILE
Missing 1 Pokemon from SANKE CARP
Code:
+ ---- + ----------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Leads                   | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ----------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Luxray                  |   28 |  25.93% |  42.86% |
| 2    | Persian                 |   17 |  15.74% |  47.06% |
| 3    | Camerupt                |    8 |   7.41% |  37.50% |
| 4    | Stantler                |    7 |   6.48% |  57.14% |
| 5    | Granbull                |    6 |   5.56% |  66.67% |
| 5    | Butterfree              |    6 |   5.56% |  50.00% |
| 5    | Banette                 |    6 |   5.56% |  50.00% |
| 8    | Phione                  |    3 |   2.78% | 100.00% |
| 8    | Bibarel                 |    3 |   2.78% |  66.67% |
| 8    | Omanyte                 |    3 |   2.78% |   0.00% |
| 11   | Golbat                  |    2 |   1.85% |  50.00% |
| 11   | Carnivine               |    2 |   1.85% |  50.00% |
| 11   | Pineco                  |    2 |   1.85% |  50.00% |
| 11   | Arbok                   |    2 |   1.85% |  50.00% |
| 11   | Budew                   |    2 |   1.85% |   0.00% |
| 16   | Sableye                 |    1 |   0.93% | 100.00% |
| 16   | Grotle                  |    1 |   0.93% | 100.00% |
| 16   | Lunatone                |    1 |   0.93% | 100.00% |
| 16   | Anorith                 |    1 |   0.93% | 100.00% |
| 16   | Crawdaunt               |    1 |   0.93% | 100.00% |
| 16   | Girafarig               |    1 |   0.93% | 100.00% |
| 16   | Ivysaur                 |    1 |   0.93% | 100.00% |
| 16   | Pelipper                |    1 |   0.93% | 100.00% |
| 16   | Prinplup                |    1 |   0.93% |   0.00% |
| 16   | Dewgong                 |    1 |   0.93% |   0.00% |
| 16   | Dunsparce               |    1 |   0.93% |   0.00% |
ADV
:ponyta:

Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Ponyta             |   53 |  56.38% |  47.17% |
| 2    | Seaking            |   40 |  42.55% |  57.50% |
| 3    | Mightyena          |   31 |  32.98% |  51.61% |
| 4    | Koffing            |   29 |  30.85% |  41.38% |
| 5    | Gloom              |   26 |  27.66% |  42.31% |
| 6    | Noctowl            |   19 |  20.21% |  52.63% |
| 6    | Flaaffy            |   19 |  20.21% |  47.37% |
| 6    | Corsola            |   19 |  20.21% |  36.84% |
| 9    | Anorith            |   18 |  19.15% |  50.00% |
| 10   | Ariados            |   16 |  17.02% |  43.75% |
| 10   | Aipom              |   16 |  17.02% |  25.00% |
| 12   | Tropius            |   15 |  15.96% |  60.00% |
| 12   | Abra               |   15 |  15.96% |  53.33% |
| 12   | Clamperl           |   15 |  15.96% |  46.67% |
| 15   | Rhyhorn            |   14 |  14.89% |  50.00% |
| 16   | Beedrill           |   13 |  13.83% |  46.15% |
| 17   | Castform           |   12 |  12.77% |  75.00% |
| 17   | Onix               |   12 |  12.77% |  50.00% |
| 17   | Meditite           |   12 |  12.77% |  41.67% |
| 20   | Porygon            |   11 |  11.70% |  63.64% |
| 20   | Voltorb            |   11 |  11.70% |  45.45% |
| 22   | Magnemite          |   10 |  10.64% |  50.00% |
| 22   | Delcatty           |   10 |  10.64% |  30.00% |
| 24   | Dustox             |    8 |   8.51% |  62.50% |
| 24   | Drowzee            |    8 |   8.51% |  37.50% |
| 26   | Doduo              |    6 |   6.38% |  66.67% |
| 26   | Lileep             |    6 |   6.38% |  50.00% |
| 26   | Quilava            |    6 |   6.38% |  33.33% |
| 26   | Sunflora           |    6 |   6.38% |  33.33% |
| 30   | Cubone             |    5 |   5.32% |  80.00% |
| 30   | Staryu             |    5 |   5.32% |  60.00% |
| 30   | Elekid             |    5 |   5.32% |  60.00% |
| 30   | Chinchou           |    5 |   5.32% |  40.00% |
| 30   | Wartortle          |    5 |   5.32% |   0.00% |
| 35   | Volbeat            |    4 |   4.26% | 100.00% |
| 35   | Tentacool          |    4 |   4.26% |  75.00% |
| 35   | Farfetch’d         |    4 |   4.26% |  50.00% |
| 35   | Wailmer            |    4 |   4.26% |  25.00% |
| 39   | Snorunt            |    3 |   3.19% |   0.00% |
| 40   | Zigzagoon          |    2 |   2.13% |  50.00% |
| 40   | Masquerain         |    2 |   2.13% |  50.00% |
| 40   | Lombre             |    2 |   2.13% |   0.00% |
| 43   | Bayleef            |    1 |   1.06% | 100.00% |
| 43   | Clefairy           |    1 |   1.06% |   0.00% |
| 43   | Snubbull           |    1 |   1.06% |   0.00% |
| 43   | Smoochum           |    1 |   1.06% |   0.00% |
| 43   | Horsea             |    1 |   1.06% |   0.00% |
Missing 1 Pokemon from BLUEHUSEEYWASTAKEN
Missing 1 Pokemon from TEMPORAL TOTODILE
Missing 2 Pokemon from BLUEHUSEEYWASTAKEN
Missing 1 Pokemon from TEMPORAL TOTODILE
Missing 1 Pokemon from TEMPORAL TOTODILE
Missing 2 Pokemon from TEMPORAL TOTODILE
Missing 3 Pokemon from BLUEHUSEEYWASTAKEN
Missing 2 Pokemon from ZAUSE
Missing 1 Pokemon from ALICE KAZUMI
Missing 1 Pokemon from BYDY2
Missing 3 Pokemon from BLUEHUSEEYWASTAKEN
Missing 1 Pokemon from ZAUSE
Missing 1 Pokemon from SANKE CARP
Missing 1 Pokemon from FEEN
Missing 2 Pokemon from SANKE CARP
Missing 1 Pokemon from 5GEN
Missing 3 Pokemon from PEDRINHO77778
Missing 2 Pokemon from BIG TONY 2014
Missing 2 Pokemon from ALICE KAZUMI
Missing 1 Pokemon from MEDEYA
Missing 1 Pokemon from TEMPORAL TOTODILE
Code:
+ ---- + ----------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Leads                   | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ----------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Ponyta                  |   19 |  20.21% |  52.63% |
| 2    | Seaking                 |   15 |  15.96% |  60.00% |
| 3    | Mightyena               |   13 |  13.83% |  53.85% |
| 4    | Flaaffy                 |    7 |   7.45% |  42.86% |
| 5    | Anorith                 |    5 |   5.32% |  60.00% |
| 5    | Ariados                 |    5 |   5.32% |  20.00% |
| 7    | Volbeat                 |    4 |   4.26% | 100.00% |
| 7    | Voltorb                 |    4 |   4.26% |  50.00% |
| 9    | Aipom                   |    3 |   3.19% |  66.67% |
| 9    | Clamperl                |    3 |   3.19% |  33.33% |
| 9    | Wailmer                 |    3 |   3.19% |  33.33% |
| 9    | Snorunt                 |    3 |   3.19% |   0.00% |
| 13   | Cubone                  |    2 |   2.13% | 100.00% |
| 13   | Abra                    |    2 |   2.13% |  50.00% |
| 13   | Farfetch’d              |    2 |   2.13% |  50.00% |
| 16   | Snubbull                |    1 |   1.06% |   0.00% |
| 16   | Doduo                   |    1 |   1.06% |   0.00% |
| 16   | Magnemite               |    1 |   1.06% |   0.00% |
| 16   | Koffing                 |    1 |   1.06% |   0.00% |
GSC
:charmeleon:

Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Charmeleon         |   48 |  96.00% |  52.08% |
| 2    | Onix               |   36 |  72.00% |  52.78% |
| 3    | Bayleef            |   31 |  62.00% |  41.94% |
| 4    | Wartortle          |   30 |  60.00% |  50.00% |
| 5    | Voltorb            |   24 |  48.00% |  50.00% |
| 6    | Aipom              |   20 |  40.00% |  40.00% |
| 7    | Grimer             |   19 |  38.00% |  52.63% |
| 8    | Mantine            |   18 |  36.00% |  55.56% |
| 9    | Ivysaur            |   10 |  20.00% |  80.00% |
| 10   | Doduo              |    6 |  12.00% |  33.33% |
| 11   | Togetic            |    5 |  10.00% |  60.00% |
| 11   | Poliwag            |    5 |  10.00% |  40.00% |
| 11   | Weepinbell         |    5 |  10.00% |  20.00% |
| 14   | Tentacool          |    4 |   8.00% |  75.00% |
| 14   | Omanyte            |    4 |   8.00% |  50.00% |
| 14   | Nidorina           |    4 |   8.00% |   0.00% |
| 17   | Sandshrew          |    3 |   6.00% |   0.00% |
| 18   | Venonat            |    2 |   4.00% | 100.00% |
| 18   | Geodude            |    2 |   4.00% |  50.00% |
| 18   | Smoochum           |    2 |   4.00% |  50.00% |
| 18   | Meowth             |    2 |   4.00% |  50.00% |
| 18   | Magby              |    2 |   4.00% |   0.00% |
| 18   | Quilava            |    2 |   4.00% |   0.00% |
| 24   | Teddiursa          |    1 |   2.00% | 100.00% |
| 24   | Parasect           |    1 |   2.00% |   0.00% |
| 24   | Dratini            |    1 |   2.00% |   0.00% |
| 24   | Croconaw           |    1 |   2.00% |   0.00% |
- Missing 2 Pokemon from BLUEHUSEEYWASTAKEN
- Missing 1 Pokemon from LUSTFULLICE
- Missing 1 Pokemon from DRACOPOPE
- Missing 1 Pokemon from BLUEHUSEEYWASTAKEN
- Missing 1 Pokemon from LUSTFULLICE
- Missing 2 Pokemon from SLEID
- Missing 1 Pokemon from SLEID
- Missing 1 Pokemon from LONELING
- Missing 2 Pokemon from LONELING
Code:
+ ---- + ----------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Leads                   | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ----------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Voltorb                 |   12 |  24.00% |  50.00% |
| 2    | Grimer                  |   11 |  22.00% |  54.55% |
| 3    | Aipom                   |    9 |  18.00% |  77.78% |
| 4    | Charmeleon              |    6 |  12.00% |  50.00% |
| 5    | Poliwag                 |    3 |   6.00% |  33.33% |
| 6    | Mantine                 |    2 |   4.00% |  50.00% |
| 7    | Smoochum                |    1 |   2.00% | 100.00% |
| 7    | Nidorina                |    1 |   2.00% |   0.00% |
| 7    | Dratini                 |    1 |   2.00% |   0.00% |
| 7    | Magby                   |    1 |   2.00% |   0.00% |
| 7    | Doduo                   |    1 |   2.00% |   0.00% |
| 7    | Tentacool               |    1 |   2.00% |   0.00% |
| 7    | Wartortle               |    1 |   2.00% |   0.00% |
RBY
:pidgeot:

Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Pidgeot            |   86 |  93.48% |  48.84% |
| 2    | Primeape           |   81 |  88.04% |  48.15% |
| 3    | Sandslash          |   64 |  69.57% |  37.50% |
| 4    | Flareon            |   54 |  58.70% |  48.15% |
| 5    | Tentacool          |   46 |  50.00% |  43.48% |
| 5    | Parasect           |   46 |  50.00% |  43.48% |
| 7    | Weezing            |   34 |  36.96% |  44.12% |
| 8    | Butterfree         |   26 |  28.26% |  61.54% |
| 9    | Rhyhorn            |   16 |  17.39% |  68.75% |
| 10   | Slowpoke           |   14 |  15.22% |  64.29% |
| 11   | Poliwag            |   13 |  14.13% |  23.08% |
| 12   | Marowak            |   11 |  11.96% |  63.64% |
| 13   | Onix               |   10 |  10.87% |  50.00% |
| 14   | Charmeleon         |    9 |   9.78% |  77.78% |
| 15   | Abra               |    7 |   7.61% |  57.14% |
| 16   | Muk                |    4 |   4.35% |  25.00% |
| 17   | Ponyta             |    3 |   3.26% | 100.00% |
| 17   | Wartortle          |    3 |   3.26% | 100.00% |
| 19   | Magneton           |    2 |   2.17% |  50.00% |
| 20   | Lickitung          |    1 |   1.09% | 100.00% |
| 20   | Golbat             |    1 |   1.09% |   0.00% |
- Missing 3 Pokemon from MARIS BONIBELL
- Missing 1 Pokemon from BEATSBLACK
- Missing 1 Pokemon from BEATSBLACK
- Missing 1 Pokemon from SANKE CARP
- Missing 1 Pokemon from BEATSBLACK
- Missing 1 Pokemon from IMFREEAGAIN
- Missing 2 Pokemon from PAC
- Missing 1 Pokemon from MARIS BONIBELL
- Missing 1 Pokemon from ORANBERRYBLISSEY10
- Missing 3 Pokemon from BLUEHUSEEYWASTAKEN
- Missing 1 Pokemon from SODA_EESTI
- Missing 1 Pokemon from LUSTFULLICE
- Missing 3 Pokemon from FIGHTERFROG
- Missing 1 Pokemon from MARIS BONIBELL
Code:
+ ---- + ----------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Leads                   | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ----------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Primeape                |   24 |  26.09% |  45.83% |
| 2    | Butterfree              |   12 |  13.04% |  50.00% |
| 3    | Flareon                 |   10 |  10.87% |  30.00% |
| 4    | Sandslash               |    9 |   9.78% |  44.44% |
| 4    | Weezing                 |    9 |   9.78% |  22.22% |
| 6    | Charmeleon              |    6 |   6.52% | 100.00% |
| 6    | Tentacool               |    6 |   6.52% |  66.67% |
| 8    | Poliwag                 |    5 |   5.43% |  40.00% |
| 9    | Ponyta                  |    3 |   3.26% | 100.00% |
| 10   | Marowak                 |    2 |   2.17% | 100.00% |
| 10   | Slowpoke                |    2 |   2.17% | 100.00% |
| 10   | Parasect                |    2 |   2.17% |  50.00% |
| 10   | Abra                    |    2 |   2.17% |   0.00% |
 
Short announcements for ADV! missangelic and Scizornite have both been added to ADV council and I am turning tier leadership over to BP! All of these users have great involvement in the tier and are deserving of their newfound roles, congratulations! In addition, ADV had a VR/sample update and numerous resources have been updated thanks to the aforementioned users, such as the speed tiers and role compendium. Hooray!

For GSC, a VL has been pushed out as a preliminary resource until further developments are made in the post-Star/Eevee/Bee ban meta. This means sub-ranks are not present and will be broken up into S/A/B/C/UR. Rankings are ordered alphabetically. I would greatly appreciate and heavily encourage any discussion or comparison to other players' rankings!

S​

:pmd/charmeleon: Charmeleon
:pmd/wartortle: Wartortle


A

:pmd/aipom: Aipom
:pmd/bayleef: Bayleef
:pmd/grimer: Grimer
:pmd/mantine: Mantine
:pmd/onix: Onix
:pmd/togetic: Togetic
:pmd/quilava: Quilava
:pmd/voltorb: Voltorb

B​

:pmd/croconaw: Croconaw
:pmd/diglett: Diglett
:pmd/doduo: Doduo
:pmd/Geodude: Geodude
:pmd/ivysaur: Ivysaur
:pmd/koffing: Koffing
:pmd/magby: Magby
:pmd/meowth: Meowth
:pmd/nidorina: Nidorina
:pmd/omanyte: Omanyte
:pmd/poliwag: Poliwag
:pmd/slowpoke: Slowpoke
:pmd/tentacool: Tentacool
:pmd/weepinbell: Weepinbell

C​

:pmd/Butterfree: Butterfree
:pmd/dratini: Dratini
:pmd/Goldeen: Goldeen
:pmd/Mareep: Mareep
:pmd/natu: Natu
:pmd/Nidorino: Nidorino
:pmd/Parasect: Parasect
:pmd/sandshrew: Sandshrew
:pmd/shellder: Shellder
:pmd/smoochum: Smoochum
:pmd/snubbull: Snubbull
:pmd/Teddiursa: Teddiursa

:Growlithe:
:Ledyba:
:yanma:
:kabuto:
:mankey:
:larvitar:
:phanpy:
:pidgeotto:
:seel:
:spinarak:
:horsea:
:krabby:
:machop:
:rattata:
 
Last edited:
Hello so Ive been talking about making a dpp post for a while sharing my thoughts about this very fun and amazing meta. This is based on MY experience playing, testing and laddering alot these past months so if you disagree let me know so we can discuss. This might be tough to read. Good luck.

DROPS:
:Carnivine: High A -> Low A
:Probopass: High A -> Low A

I can start with :Carnivine:. It has some very nice qualities such as Sleep Powder, Swords Dance, strong STAB and its able to run both physical and special sets which makes it harder to prep for. Its also not weak to spikes thanks to levitate. When you build with Carnivine u have to decide if you want it to be physical defensive and deal mainly with whiscash(ish), luxray (ish), crawdaunt (ish), and physical attackers in general since it has decent bulk. Or you can use special defensive sets and let it deal with special waters (ish), luxray (ish) and special attackers in general. You can also use Swords Dance sets which actually does seem kind of hard to switch into, but speed is its main issue here. I added alot of ishes here which looks cringe and it is honestly quite cringe too, but its because all the pokemon its supposed to deal with can also run different sets which can totally throw Carnivine off guard. Whiscash can run special sets with Sub+Toxic, Crawdaunt can run specs and even X-Scizzor. This is just a couple of examples that just came to the top of my head right now. Sleep powder is a very strong argument that makes this good too and i agree that its great, but imo most teams should at this point be able to deal with sleep one way or another, so for a High A mon i dont think that is a good enough argument. I can answer questions about this if im missing something, but overall i like to compare Carnivine with restaurants that serves pizza, burgers and fish at the same place. Its decent at everything, but you definetly dont go there if you want a good pizza.

:Probopass: next. I can start with the ability. Magnet pull is really cool for trapping steels and its main goal is trapping Wormadam-Trash and itself. Its also a rocker, normal resist, has cool moves like Thunder Wave, Explosion and Sunny Day so probopass is a quite versatile pokemon with some neat tools. Probopass main problem is its terrible double weakness and general weakness to other top pokemon in this meta. Most pokemon can suprise this with a hidden power fight for example and do massive damage. Probopass will in most cases get rocks up, but it rarely does much outside of that. It does trap a Wormadam now and then, but it will get chipped down alot and Wormadam will also get up rocks. Its not a great normal resist since most of our normal types has moves that covers Probopass except for Fearow. I think High A can be justified if trapping Wormadam/itself is enough of an argument, other than that i dont think it does enough to justify the rank. Its just overall to weak and easy to kill imo.

:Mawile: Low A -> High B
:Mawile: is an interesting pokemon. It has 1 goal and that is to set up with Swords Dance and either Baton Pass and let another pokemon do the job or try to power through the opposing team by itself. It can either run Intimidate or Hyper Cutter, but in my opinion Hyper cutter is by far the best one since this tier has so many viable Intimidate pokemon. Mawiles biggest problem is that its frail and lacks speed. It also struggles vs most of the top pokemon in this metagame which all (bar Wormadam) outspeeds it and can take it out while surviving Sucker Punch. It is definetly a scary late game sweeper tho and i havent tested fat pass sets, but i have never really seen it work either. I think right now putting it at High B is fair tho since the meta really isnt kind to this mon. If I see Baton Pass be consistent ill change my mind, but i just havent seen it work yet.

:Bibarel: High B -> Low B
:Lopunny: High B -> Low B
:Shelgon: High B -> Low B
I wont talk as that much about these 3 as i did with the higher rank mons but i will give them some love.
:Bibarel:s main goal is getting up rocks and taunt other rock leads. In my opinion this isnt enough for High B since we have so many other leads that deals with bibarel and i dont think getting up rocks is enough to justify its rank.
:Lopunny: has alot of cool tools and its a pokemon we really havent seen enough of imo. Its fast has a bunch of cool moves and options, but as of right now i think its ranked too high since i have only seen it used 1 time and thats me using it on sun. Need to see some more consistency. I can see scarf trick sets, sub toxic sets and stuff be cool tho so maybe in the future.
:Shelgon: is a mon that on paper seems really cool. I have never faced this or used this myself but i can see Dragon Dance sets being quite scary. I think however Shelgon will struggle since we have so many good intimidate mons that can beat it 1v1 and we also have fat water types that can beat it 1v1 with ice beam. We also just have better options imo like Crawdaunt and Whiscash. Open to discuss more about this mon.


:Bronzor: Low B -> High C
:Wormadam-Sandy: Low B -> High C
I dont have a single thing to say about these. They just seem very bad and i would even consider adding them to the butcher list

Butcher list
:Chatot:, :Mankey:, :Pidgeot:, :Noctowl:. I can see Noctowl be good paired with np Plusle baton pass because of typing and insomnia but other than that i see no reason and i think its too niche.

RISES: (edit: i noticed that i dont say the bad parts about the mons i want to rise but im up for discussion)
:Wailord: Low A -> High A
:Wormadam-Trash: Low A -> High A
Im ngl im starting to get tired from writing, but ill try my best to continue. I think these 2 deserves a rise since they are very good pokemon and will have alot of role compression for your team.
:Wailord: can do almost whatever you want it to. It can be specs mon thats almost impossible to switch into or it can be mega fat and annoy you with sub+toxic. Its great at tanking hits and be annoying to deal with. I dont know what else to say its just a great pokemon. Good defensively and offensively and will never be a bad mon to just slap on your team.
:Wormadam-Trash: is our best rocker imo. It has great typing and can do alot more than just getting up rocks. It can run hp fighting to beat Mawile and deal nice damage to Probopass when trapped. You can run endeavor sets to suprise mons like wailord trying to wear it down. Its just a mon thats hard to kill and it can use different tools to annoy the opponent. Great vs normals too.

:Granbull: High B -> Low A
:Whiscash: High B -> Low A
If you cant tell that im tired by now, you will definetly notice it now.
:Granbull: is just so good in my opinion. Its very versatile, fat and strong and generally very hard to play against. Sub sets with 3 offensive moves, Toxic+Protect and even Heal Bell sets if your team needs it are all sets that i rate very high. Intimidate too in this tier is just so nice since u can shut down scary pokemon when switching in. If you look at this mon and then look at the vr u will notice that on paper u cant really beat this. You need a combination of mons to deal with it. Body slam on this pokemon is just so good to for free Paralyze. I have nothing bad to say about this mon.
:Whiscash: is super underrated imo. Many viable sets is often a sign that a mon is good and Whiscash has 3/4 sets that all is great in their own way. DD is actually very hard to play against if you have a way of weakening opposing Grass types, sub+toxic or sub 3 attacks is also very viable and hard to deal with. Fat Resttalk sets are also super annoying to deal with since its hard to kill unless you have a grass move. Specs is also an option. Overall its just very hard to find a pokemon in builder to deal with this because it has so many options. I like to be safe and have a fat water, heal bell and something that can revenge kill dd sets. This is why i think Whiscash deserves a rise imo. I havent even mentioned the handy electric immunity for luxray.

:Fearow: Low B -> High B
Im a big :Fearow: fan since its very fast and very strong and has very good moves like pursuit/u-turn. Pursuit and u-turn often makes playing against it a guessing game which is hard to play against. Quick attack is also very handy against glass cannons like plusle,crawdaunt and setup mons in general that can use berries to boost their speed. Being weak to rocks is its main weakness and its actually a quite big one, but that doesnt stop it from being at least High B imo.

:Pineco: Low C -> High C/Low B
I think :Pineco: deserves some love. quite bulky on the physical side and it can both spin and get up spikes. I just want it a bit higher than Low C because i think it gives more role compression than the rest of those mons.
 
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Hey y'all, I looked into DPP again recently for building a secret santa team and playing with quagsgone got me really interested in the tier.

As such, I am here to put forward a new comer's perspective and hopefully it would lead to exploring new and innovative strategies, developing the meta.

:wailord: :lopunny: :whiscash: :Wormadam-Trash: :Luxray: :Diglett:

This isn't a post about discussing the viability or anything of the said team, but rather about the sets themselves.

The idea was to utilize specs wailord as lead to prevent hazards and put a big dent on walls. This also helps the second breaker, Lopunny.

Lopunny came to my attention after quag's recent post and I went to the calculator, only to realize it doesn't ohkos even with 4x se moves, something that can be covered up with wailord denting walls.
Also gave expert belt as a soft boost.

Tox tect whiscash is something that I believe can be optimised further and used better but for better camerupt mu I am running spd.

Wormadam with hp fighting is something I like to counter probo trapping and hit mawile in a pinch.

Cb diglett as revenge killer mostly cuz I remember non cb sucker not getting an ohkos on scarf giraf.

252 SpA 30 IVs Choice Specs Wailord Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Pelipper: 191-225 (59.1 - 69.6%)

252 SpA 30 IVs Choice Specs Wailord Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Carnivine: 186-219 (52.8 - 62.2%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA 30 IVs Choice Specs Wailord Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Grotle: 201-237 (56.7 - 66.9%)
252 Atk Expert Belt Lopunny Thunder Punch vs. 60 HP / 0 Def Wailord: 256-304 (51.6 - 61.2%)

252 Atk Expert Belt Lopunny Thunder Punch vs. 248 HP / 204+ Def Pelipper: 211-249 (65.3 - 77%)

252 Atk Expert Belt Lopunny Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 16 Def Wormadam-Trash: 283-336 (87.3 - 103.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Expert Belt Lopunny Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Probopass: 321-379 (99 - 116.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4zu-2272137814
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4zu-2272139331?p2
Whiscash was phy def in these games, realised spd is needed after this. Also, shed shell probopass is really cool imo
 
Hey all, I have a big ADV ZU Update!!!

I will immediately step down from ADV TL and my council position. In the three years I've been a part of the ADV ZU, I've accomplished almost every goal I've set for myself and the metagame. The only thing I've been unable to accomplish was this metagame's inclusion into ADVPL. After getting on-site analysis and an article, that's been my goal for the past two years. It was supposed to be my magnum opus, and I'd hoped I'd be around to see it happen. However, I am someone who knows when they've been beaten. As it stands, I've done everything I could possibly do for ADV ZU. It is time for someone else to rise and continue in my stead. That someone is missangelic. They've been active and continuously talking with me about our metagame's next steps and where to go. I have the utmost faith in them, and I truly could not think of a better replacement.

I'd like to thank everyone I served alongside, especially Monai BeatsBlack wooper Gangsta Spongebob. None of the goals I set would've been possible without you guys. I'd also like to thank the player base who've continued to stick with me and keep ADV ZU alive these past few years. It's truly been a pleasure, and I sincerely hope ADV ZU continues to thrive and push past the barriers put in front of it.

Wishing you all the best,
BP
 
Hey folks,

It’s been a while since I’ve posted to the Old Gens thread. I’ve been plenty busy IRL with my class. I wanted to post my overall thoughts on what I’ve witnessed and what I spit balled during this year’s ZU Olympiad (big shout outs to estra, 5gen, and the rest of the Persian crew, y'all went big in the builder and came home the biggest winners).

Firstly, let me be frank in my personal views on the metagame staples, as well as Pokémon I’ve had to reconsider my personal biases:



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When building for the metagame at large, these two are always at the top of my mind. Swalot has easily cemented itself to me as not only the premier tank, but as the “swiss army knife” of ORAS. Its coverage is nutty and flexible enough to take on a wide range of the metagame. PhysDef, SpDef, AV, Curse all can casually be thrown onto a team and can act as stopgaps to dangerous Pokémon like Servine, Pignite and Persian. Servine has continued to prove that Contrary Leaf Storm was a mistake and we’re all paying the price of Game Freak’s sins. Glare never ceases to completely aggro me and between options like Taunt, Hidden Power Fire/Ice/Ground, and Substitute among others, it’s clear it will remain at the top of the pecking order.

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Dustox shouldn’t be too much of a shock. It’s one of the few Defog users that are good, Poison-typing in this metagame is stellar and even has the option of going nuclear with Double Dance variants. While we didn’t see the latter set heavily this Olympiad, I wouldn’t doubt if we see more of the set in later tours. Meganium was definitely an initial shock to see 100% win rate, but upon reflection it really shouldn’t be shocking. Bulky Grass-types are in high demand, and it has a decently customizable tool kit from SD sweeping, cleric support, and Dragon Tail phasing. I think its success shows maybe it’s been undervalued for a while. Probably not as shocking to see: Hyper Offense got a lot of usage. Screens continues to be a big threat thanks to solid sweeper options like Huntail, Klang, Scraggy etc., so of course Meowstic usage is gonna be relatively high. Solrock is something estra really got me hooked on these past few months. Defensive RH is a great check to the Normal-types and Pignite, and can spread burns with WoW on switch-ins like Krokorok. Of course, because plenty of matches had the Water Sweeper Spam that included the fast offensive Stealth Rock setter set, maybe its importance might be an overreach on my part. I’ll be interested in seeing if this trend continues. Whiscash, while not really dominating, was also on a few builds like the Water Spam mentioned previously. Dragon Dance is just really great for a bulkier sweeper with middling Speed stat issues, and between a tough STAB combo to address and the set variety like Sub DD, SubToxic, and even Choice Specs, I think we’ll be seeing way more experimentation on move slot utilization and EV customization.

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Do I think Electabuzz is good? Yes, it’s a solid pivot, an offensive check to a number of Pokémon and helps to define the Speed Tiers of the metagame. Do I think it’s S worthy? While I would probably say S last year, I cannot justify it as much as I have in metagames past. Electric-type checks and counters have never been easier to just slap onto a team, and unfortunately Electabuzz sharing some of those same checks as other top tiers really doesn't do it favors. That’s not to say it went on a complete losing streak, it did get some wins pre Semi-Finals of Olympiad and had a few mirrors, but it’s not shocking to see why teams had abandoned it when the games really mattered. That’s at least more charitable than I can say for Lairon who had a grand total of… 1 use. But hey, it was a win under its belt. At least, that’s what I would say if it even left the Poke Ball. I’m gonna be frank, if and when council does a VR vote this thing needs a decisive drop. Steel/Rock is just a bad defensive type, and so many Pokemon it could check in theory can just run some speed and Ground coverage (shout outs to Carbink) to completely dog walk it. Speaking of Stealth Rock competition: Gigalith, Carbink, Bronzor and even Solrock really popped off this tournament. Even Marshtomp, a B+ rank mon, saw way more use and quite a bit more success. I don’t think it’s all bad, Head Smash is still an absolute nuke, but that A+ ranking is a relic. I think the same can be said of Politoed to an extent. This was the main countermeasure at the time to Simipour’s usage and dominance for a few years. So then, what’s changed? I think it comes down to two things: Simipour ironically and the bulky Water-type competition. A lot of the Simipours you saw in the past mainly tried getting away with Hydro Pump + Ice Beam as their attacking options. Nowadays, I’d argue that the set is obsolete in no small part thanks to Politoed itself. HP Grass is almost always a given on NP sets, and another set that’s really seen a resurgence is LO AOA varieties. Politoed users absolutely hate this set. Not only does Knock Off take away your only form of recovery, it forces you to have to forgo either offensive firepower or compromise your fickle bulk to better tank physical attacks like the former or Superpower. Water-type competition has also somewhat gotten in the way of Politoed too. Seaking and Whiscash offer quite a bit for teams, whether that be Knock Off support, sweeping capabilities, or more damningly Electric immunities. I’d argue these two are way more self sufficient and more rewarding then the positives Politoed otherwise provides. Jumpluff I’d say is a victim of circumstance, AKA it does really well into a certain team archetype of Pignite + Water + Grass, but with more teams running Rocky Helmet Swalot and Bronzor/Klang, it really struggles to break through with its measly Attack stat. I don’t think it’s terrible or unusable at the moment, but it might need a slight VR drop to reflect the current metagame state.

Persian contributions:

I was one of the main Persian testers, so I had a chance to test a lot with estra and 5gens on what the team would spitball. I’ll give all the flowers I can to estra during this season. I think they bounced back marvelously after a bit of a rocky start to the season vs sleid, really locked in weeks 2-7 (except vs neomon, we kind of knew the team was heavily weak to Flying-types going in and got a bit too goofy) and even got their runback in a down to the wire finale. This post is already getting kind of long, so I’ll quickly post my primary contributions to the season:

Cowboy Bebop

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Week 3 vs drud was a really hyped game for the Persians. Drud is no slouch in ORAS, boasting plenty of previous tournament success and can be dangerous with builder support like fruits and previous support from twitt. 5gen rightfully called they’d probably compensate past Servine weaknesses for SD Jumpluff, as it also demolishes some common FWG cores going around. We were all generally interested in T-Wave Furfrou + AOA Simipour, as the two really help whittle each other's checks. Around this time though I got to re-listening to the Cowboy Bebop OST (great listen if you’ve never heard it or want more jazz in your life). It gave me the idea to refine Rain for ORAS. Weather, while not always the most consistent playstyle in the lower tiers, usually really excels vs bulky offense builds lacking solid Water-type checks or opposing HO, playstyles drud wouldn’t be opposed to given the bait + sleid scout and his past usage. Initially, I had Archen as the Stealth Rock setter of choice. It has cool tech it can utilize to better the team vs fat do-nothing stalls like Taunt and Endeavor, and if need be can get free momentum with Head Smash recoil into KO. Where estra made this build more of their own is the optimization of Golduck (going for a safe Surf STAB choice) and Bibarel > Archen, as it has the same Taunt utility while also providing Thunder Wave support if Rain wasn’t possible to set up. It also has a better matchup vs drud’s offensive builds. This turned out to be just as we planned out, even getting a lot of utility out of Lum Berry Beartic as a lead choice vs Jumpluff and scrapping Bronzor with Superpower. Estra piloted the team immaculately and never really lost control of the match from turn one.

Danger Doom (RIP George Lowe, we’ll continue looking at the stars yearning for what it all means)
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Finals vs sleid was probably the most daunting of the matches. Originally, estra wanted to utilize AV Swalot + Solrock balance. While in retrospect it was a respectable choice, I think the biggest issue for me at the time was round one. Estra early into the season (and with a tinge of hax) got stomped by Whiscash, and vs other Water-types like Huntail it basically had to play perfect in pivoting in the appropriate checks. We also considered a Vanilluxe lead, because Vanilluxe is always that threat that no one ever brings to the important games. I think the team change really set in when skrimps cautioned the Ditto screens HO he brought earlier in the tour. We wanted something to catch his HO tendencies while still giving us a solid out vs his more balanced builds. Late January/Early February I sort of fell into my usual team building trappings and wanted to make an old favorite of mine work: Shedinja. In spite of the lack of HDB and some STAB options offered in later generations, Shedinja actually matches up really well into common Pokemon like Swalot, Electabuzz, Servine (non-HP Fire), Klang, Sawsbuck, and very key: the Water sweepers. The rest of the team feel into a standard process: You need removal (Wartortle was the only real choice for me, Tentacool was considered, but Tentacool + Swalot was too Psychic weak), the Scraggy/Dark-type check, the Stealth Rock setter, the cleric for everything NOT Shedinja, and Swalot. The team wasn’t perfect, but we figured sleid wouldn’t go too out of his comfort zone this game, and we had to lock in to give skrimps the dead game. The final game definitely got dicey. Personally, I think some misplays were had on estra’s part vs Whiscash and getting the Secret Power paralysis kind of came to our detriment a bit, but the lack of a Ghost-type meant getting the Rapid Spin off was gonna be a guarantee and Shedinja was the correct win condition.

I’d say overall, this Olympiad was pretty fun. I’ll try to see if I can join as a player next year, or maybe stick to an advisory role, but I’ll give my thanks to everyone within the community for the participation. I don’t think I get to say often enough how happy I am to see the ZU community’s continual growth and development progress. It makes the struggles all the more worthwhile.
 
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Heya, wanting to make a pretty brief post about SS ZU - I know we didn't have a super great performance in Olympiad, but I feel like there's a lot to take note of - winners and losers of metagame trends as well as some of the unranked mons that really could use some recognition.

Winners

:throh: - Ernie's been on a roll in SS ZU, really spiking in popularity over the past few months, and I think it's pretty safe to say that he might be one of the best fighters in the tier. Excellent bulk allows Throh to pull off resttalk sets quite well, while flame orb sets are quite strong as well, although a lot more MU fish in nature. It's pretty great at making progress through absorbing sleep from Tangela, spamming Knock Off on everything, and phasing once there's hazards up and boots gone.

:lunatone: - Seen in past years as a cheesy or ladder exclusive offensive poke, Lunatone has really shown its place to excel on all sorts of playstyles; from a 6th on sun teams to keep pressure going, to a cleanup focused setup sweeper, to a dedicated breaker, Lunatone's managed to find several different roles for itself.

:silvally: :dark-memory: - Silvally-Dark has pretty much cemented itself as the best Silvally form at this point. Resttalk SD Multi-Attack sets serve as a devastating lategame win condition, while more offensively inclined setup sets with Flame Charge do excellently as well. Mixed offensive sets are something I haven't seen explored as much with Darkvally, but I think would still perform solidly. Just an excellent mon all around.

:rapidash-galar: - While its Kanto form has traditionally seen a lot more use in SS ZU, Galarian Rapidash has been an excellent force in its own right with both CM and SD sets, though the latter have typically seen more use than the former. Its ability to pivot into opposing Toxic lets it sneak its way into matchups against Pokemon like Miltank and it just goes to work from there.

:silvally: :water-memory: - While I've seen very little of it recently, I still think Silvally-Water is an excellent offensive Pokemon - with excellent coverage in Ice Beam and Thunderbolt it's able to easily pressure a lot of different foes, including Altaria and opposing Qwilfish, and I think SD sets in general are going pretty under the radar right now. I'm hoping more people build with it soon to see what I mean.

:ninetales: - Offensive Fire-types are scarce at best in SS ZU outside of Rapidash, so Ninetales' rise as a specially offensive one isn't the most surprising thing in the world - especially when you consider how easily it can pressure Articuno, the tier's premier special wall. Access to Hypnosis also makes it a pretty devastating spreader of sleep, and Nasty Plot sets are effective at both breaking and sweeping if they catch the right matchup. Not a tierbreaker or anything, but certainly a solid mon.

Losers

:jynx: - As Jynx's #1 fan, I really can't deny that Jynx is not appreciative of the increase in mons that outpace it like Rapidash-Galar and Silvally forme speedties. Similarly, it doesn't enjoy seeing two of its favorite victims, Sawk and Palossand, dropping off in usage. Jynx is a flawed Pokemon that would be broken with 100% accuracy, but the combination of shaky Focus Blast accuracy and Lovely Kiss's similarly abysmal hitrate often make it difficult to justify sets other than choiced, which are easily abusable.

:sawk: - Bert's tragic fall from grace continues. While Scarf certainly can do well, I think Black Belt sets are generally agreed to be the better of the two at this point - utilizing Sawk's excellent coverage, lack of switchins, and abusing Miltank. Scarf Sawk being outpaced by Rotom really doesn't help its case and Sawk doesn't appreciate Rapidash-Galar's resurgence, either. It's still a great mon, but it's not the S-tier monster it used to be.

:palossand: - Time to face the music: this castle's washed up. Being easily pressured by Rotom's no good, and struggling against Miltank and Articuno doesn't help either. It also doesn't really appreciate metagame trends being against the mon it's best at checking, Sawk, and it doesn't appreciate Silvally-Dark prospering in the current metagame as well.

:froslass: - If there's one drop I'm uncertain about, it's this one. Froslass has a strange relationship with Miltank, where Miltank theoretically dominates it while the reality is that Froslass often taunts it and wins once it's switched in; everything just sort of becomes a messy guessing game once you realize this fundamental fact, though Froslass usually ends up on the better end of it as a result. Still, with this murky relationship with Miltank on top of struggles with Silvally-Dark, Rapidash, and the ever lurking Klinklang, Froslass may not be quite the demon it used to be. Again, though, I can really see an argument either way, so this is probably my 'weakest' drop nomination - I could easily see Froslass staying at A+ and being just fine there as well.

UR Noms

:golduck: - Specially offensive Water-types are rare in SS ZU, so Golduck's niche as not only a specially offensive attacker, but one that can boost its stats and find occasional beneficial matchups, is pretty sick. I think it's definitely worthy of a spot on the VR, maybe at C- or C.

:seaking: - Another excellent Water-type, Seaking's seen plenty of usage in the past, so not seeing it on the VR was a bit surprising. It may be a tad bit frail, but it's a Water-type that absolutely dominates Rotom, an Electric immune that doesn't struggle against opposing Water-types, and a pivot that can spam two of the best moves in the game, Knock Off and Scald. It's far from splashable and can really be difficult to build with, but in the right team Seaking can find a niche, and thus I think it deserves a spot around C-.
:lickilicky: - When I realized that Lickilicky wasn't actually rated on the VR, I was genuinely surprised. It's not a world beater or anything, but its niche on stall teams is fully legitimate and probably its best role in the tier. I don't like it much outside of stall, but a niche is a niche; I think it fits solidly into the C tier.

Finishing Notes

It's been a lot of fun watching this tier develop past being a current gen, and hopefully you resonate with some of my thoughts on the tier. Thanks for taking time to read this, been a minute since I've made a post so it's about time that I'd made a new one.

P.S. random noms I don’t feel like writing about

drop :clefairy: to hell alc is god
rise :rhydon: he’s great
idk maybe drop :gourgeist: small
rise :exeggutor: best clicker in the tier
maybe rise :carracosta:
silv electric is cool
ban ivy or heat rock
I love appletun
 
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SS ZU council updated the Viability Rankings. Thank you TheFranklin, 5gen, and diegoyuhhi for joining the slate.

Rises:
:rapidash: Rapidash A -> A+
:rhydon: Rhydon A -> A+
:silvally-dark: Silvally-Dark A -> A+
:stunfisk: Stunfisk A -> A+
:exeggutor: Exeggutor B+ -> A-
:ivysaur: Ivysaur B+ -> A-
:liepard: Liepard B+ -> A-
:rapidash-galar: Rapidash-Galar B+ -> A-
:shiftry: Shiftry B+ -> A-
:uxie: Uxie B+ -> A-
:lilligant: Lilligant B -> B+
:lunatone: Lunatone B -> A-
:rotom-fan: Rotom-Fan B -> B+
:silvally-water: Silvally-Water B -> B+
:throh: Throh B -> A-
:roselia: Roselia B- -> B
:bouffalant: Bouffalant C+ -> B
:cramorant: Cramorant C+ -> B-
:golbat: Golbat C+ -> B-
:raichu: Raichu C+ -> B-
:silvally-flying: Silvally-Flying C+ -> B-
:abomasnow: Abomasnow C -> C+
:carracosta: Carracosta C -> C+
:ditto: Ditto C- -> C
:shiinotic: Shiinotic C- -> C+
:golduck: Golduck UR -> C
:lickilicky: Lickilicky UR -> C+
:seaking: Seaking UR -> C-

Drops:
:froslass: Froslass A+ -> A
:sawk: Sawk A+ -> A
:jynx: Jynx A -> A-
:palossand: Palossand A -> A-
:silvally-poison: Silvally-Poison A -> A-
:clefairy: Clefairy A- -> B
:cofagrigus: Cofagrigus A- -> B+
:gourgeist: Gourgeist-Small A- -> B+
:lycanroc-midnight: Lycanroc-Midnight A- -> B+
:morpeko: Morpeko A- -> B+
:poliwrath: Poliwrath B+ -> B
:thievul: Thievul B+ -> B
:flapple: Flapple B -> C+
:appletun: Appletun B- -> C+
:type_null: Type: Null C -> C-


PokemonCurrent RankOutcomeDannyDrudOranBerryBlissey10TuthurTheFranklin5gendiegoyuhhi
MiltankSSsSSSSSS
RotomSSsSSSSSS
AlcremieA+A+a+A+A+A+A+SS
ArticunoA+A+a+A+A+A+A+A+A+
FroslassA+AaAAAAAA-
KlinklangA+A+a+A+A+AA+A+A+
QwilfishA+A+a+A+A+A+A+A+A+
SawkA+AaAA+A-AAA
TangelaA+A+aA+AA+A+A+A
AltariaAAaAAAAA-A
JynxAA-b+AAB+A-A-A
PalossandAA-a-A-A-A-A-A-B+
RapidashAA+a+A+AAAA+A+ (S- ?)
RhydonAA+a+A+AA+A+A+A+
Silvally-DarkAA+a+A+A+A+A+A+A+
Silvally-PoisonAA-b+AAB+A-AA-
SkuntankAAaAAAAAA
StunfiskAA+a+AA+AAA+A+
ThwackeyAAaAAA+AA+A+
ClefairyA-BbBB+B+BBB+
CofagrigusA-B+b+A-B+BBA-B+
Dugtrio-AlolaA-A-a-A-A-B+A-A-A-
Gourgeist-SmallA-B+B+A-A-B+B+B+B
KabutopsA-A-b+A-A-A-B+A-A-
Lycanroc-MidnightA-B+b+B+A-B+B+B+B+
MorpekoA-B+b+A-A-B+B+B+B+
Persian-AlolaA-A-bA-B+AA-A-A-
CryogonalB+B+b+B+B+A-B+B+A-
ExeggutorB+A-a-A-A-A-A-A-A-
IvysaurB+A-a-B+A-AB+A-A-
LiepardB+A-b+B+A-AB+A-A-
PoliwrathB+BbB+B+C+BBB+
Rapidash GalarB+A-a-A-B+AB+A-A-
SableyeB+B+b+B+B+B-B+B+B
ShiftryB+A-b+B+A-ABA-A-
Silvally-FightingB+B+b+B+B+BB+B+B
Stunfisk GalarB+B+bB+BB+BB+B+
ThievulB+BbB+B+BBBB
UxieB+A-aB+A-AB+A-A-
AccelgorBBbBBBBB+B+
CoalossalBBb-BBBBBB
FlappleBC+cBB-C+C+B-C+
GurdurrBBbBBB-B-B-B
KangaskhanBBc+BBC+BBB-
LilligantBB+bBB+BB+A-B+
LunatoneBA-a-B+BA-B+A-A-
LurantisBBc+BBB+B+BB+
PawniardBBbBBB+BBB+
PiloswineBBbBBB-BB-B
Rotom-FanBB+b+B+BA-B+B+B
Silvally-WaterBB+b+B+B+C+BBB+
ThrohBA-a+A-A-B+A-A-A
AppletunB-C+c+B-B+C+B-C+C+
CrustleB-B-bB-B-B-B-B-B-
ManectricB-B-cB-B-C+C+B-B-
NinetalesB-B-b-BBB-B-B+B-
PincurchinB-B-c+B-C+BC+B-B-
RoseliaB-Bb+BBB+BBB+
SilvallyB-B-b-B-BB-B-B-C+
Silvally-GrassB-B-b-B-C+B-B-B-B-
SwoobatB-B-b-B-B-BB-B-B-
BouffalantC+BbC+B-B+BBB
CramorantC+B-b-C+C+B-B-B-B-
GolbatC+B-c+B-B-B-B-B-B
Gourgeist-SuperC+C+cC+B-C+C+B+
LudicoloC+C+cC+C+C+C+C+C+
PyukumukuC+C+c+C+C+B-C+B-B-
RaichuC+B-b-C+B-BC+BB+
Silvally-ElectricC+C+c+C+C+C+C+B-C+
Silvally-FlyingC+B-b-C+CBB-B-B-
SpiritombC+C+bC+C+C+C+C+C+
TrevenantC+C+c+C+C+URC+CC-
UnfezantC+C+urC+CCC+C+C+
AbomasnowCC+c+C+B-B-C+C+C+
BeheeyemCCb-CB-CCCC+
ButterfreeCCcCC+CCCC
CarracostaCC+bCC+B-C+C+C+
HattremCCcCCCCCC
Type: NullCC-cCC-URCC-UR
DittoC-CcC-C-CCCB-
DrifblimC-C-c-C-CC-CC-C-
LeafeonC-C-c+C-C-URURC+UR
ShedinjaC-C-cC-C-URCC-C-
ShiinoticC-C+c-C+B-C-CC+B-
ShuckleC-C-cC-C-C-CC-UR
Silvally-PsychicC-C-cC-C+C-CC-C-
LickilickyURC+c+CCC+CC+C+
MareanieURURcURC-C+URURUR
GolduckURCcC-CCCCC
SeakingURC-cC-C-URCC-C-

Main changes:
  • Sun has became more prominent.
  • Rhydon and Stunfisk have established themselves as the best Ground-types over Palossand, whose matchup against Rotom, Skuntank, and Articuno is just too bad.
  • Froslass, Sawk, and Jynx have been struggling as breakers, in favor of other breakers that have been on the rise like Silvally-Dark, Exeggutor, and Rapidash Galar.
  • Throh has become a very popular wall due to its ability to shut down Miltank and Articuno while spreading Knock Off and phazing foes around.
 
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SM ZU council updated the Viability Rankings. Thank you Finchinator and btboy for joining the slate.

Rises:
:leafeon: Leafeon A -> A+
:torterra: Torterra A -> A+
:beheeyem: Beheeyem A- -> A
:poliwrath: Poliwrath A- -> A
:mawile: Mawile B+ -> A-
:mr_mime: Mr. Mime B+ -> A-
:sandslash: Sandslash B+ -> A-
:toucannon: Toucannon B+ -> A-
:grimer-alola: Grimer Alola B -> A
:kecleon: Kecleon B -> A-
:chatot: Chatot B -> B+
:lapras: Lapras B -> B+
:purugly: Purugly B -> B+
:trevenant: Trevenant B- -> B+
:duosion: Duosion B- -> B
:electrode: Electrode B- -> B
:fraxure: Fraxure B- -> B
:swoobat: Swoobat C+ -> B-
:armaldo: Armaldo C -> B-
:beartic: Beartic C -> C+
:quilladin: Quilladin C -> C+

Drops:
:swanna: Swanna S -> A+
:bouffalant: Bouffalant A+ -> A
:komala: Komala A+ -> A
:furfrou: Furfrou A+ -> A-
:combusken: Combusken A -> A-
:crustle: Crustle A -> A-
:mareanie: Mareanie A -> B+
:muk: Muk A -> B+
:silvally-water: Silvally-Water A -> B+
:simisear: Simisear A -> A-
:silvally-fighting: Silvally-Fighting A- -> B+
:silvally-ground: Silvally-Ground A- -> B+
:silvally-electric: Silvally-Electric A- -> B
:pinsir: Pinsir B+ -> B
:silvally: Silvally B+ -> B
:bellossom: Bellossom B -> B-
:camerupt: Camerupt B -> B-
:gourgeist: Gourgeist-Small B -> B-
:vigoroth: Vigoroth B -> B-
:volbeat: Volbeat B -> C+
:monferno: Monferno B -> C
:butterfree: Butterfree B -> UR
:silvally-grass: Silvally-Grass B -> UR
:basculin: Basculin B- -> C+
:corsola: Corsola B- -> C
:machoke: Machoke B- -> C
:golem-alola: Golem Alola C+ -> C
:jumpluff: Jumpluff C+ -> C
:natu: Natu C+ -> C
:shiinotic: Shiinotic C+ -> C
:vullaby: Vullaby C+ -> C
:lycanroc-midnight: Lycanroc Midnight C+ -> C-
:metang: Metang C+ -> C-
:raticate: Raticate C+ -> C-
:relicanth: Relicanth C+ -> C-
:chimecho: Chimecho C -> C-
:hakamo-o: Hakamo-o C -> C-
:ivysaur: Ivysaur C -> UR
:regice: Regice C -> UR
:flareon: Flareon C- -> UR
:frogadier: Frogadier C- -> UR
:gabite: Gabite C- -> UR
:leavanny: Leavanny C- -> UR
:murkrow: Murkrow C- -> UR
:noctowl: Noctowl C- -> UR
:palpitoad: Palpitoad C- -> UR

PokemonCurrent RankOutcomeDannyDugZaMZTuthurFinchbtboy
ElectivireSSsSSSSS
SwannaSA+aA+SAA+A+
BouffalantA+AaAA+A+AA
FurfrouA+A-a-A-AA-A-A-
GolemA+A+a+SA+SA+A+
KomalaA+AaAAAAA-
Rotom-FanA+A+a+AA+A+A+A+
SimisageA+A+a+A+A+A+A+A+
WishiwashiA+A+a+A+A+A+A+A
BronzorAAaAAAAA-
CombuskenAA-a-A-A-A-A-B+
CrustleAA-b+B+A-A-A-B+
Gourgeist-SuperAAaAAAA-A
LeafeonAA+a+A+A+A+A+B+
MareanieAB+a-B+A-B+B+B+
MukAB+a-B+B+B+A-B+
Silvally-PoisonAAaAA+A+AA-
Silvally-WaterAB+b+B+A-B+B+B
SimipourAAaAA-A-A
SimisearAA-a-A-AAA-A-
TorterraAA+a+A+A+A+A+A+
AltariaA-A-aB+A-A-B+B
BeheeyemA-AaAAAAB+
CacturneA-A-bA-B+A-B+A
KadabraA-A-aA-A-AA-A-
PoliwrathA-AaAAAAA
RapidashA-A-b+A-A-A-A-B
Silvally-DragonA-A-a-A-A-A-AB+
Silvally-ElectricA-BbBB+B+BB
Silvally-FightingA-B+b+BB+BB+B-
Silvally-GroundA-B+aB+B+B+A-B
DusclopsB+B+aA-B+AB+B+
FloatzelB+B+b+B+B+B+B+B-
MawileB+A-b+A-A-A-AB
Mr. MimeB+A-b+A-A-A-A-B-
PawniardB+B+b+A-B+A-B+B-
PinsirB+BbBBBB-B
RaichuB+B+b+B+B+A-B+B+
SandslashB+A-a-A-A-A-AB+
ServineB+B+bB+B+B+BB
SilvallyB+BbBBBBB-
Silvally-DarkB+B+a-B+A-B+B+B+
ToucannonB+A-aA-B+A-BA-
AvaluggBBbBBBCC+
BellossomBB-b-BB-BB-C+
ButterfreeBURDCCDUR
CameruptBB-cB-B-CB-C
ChatotBB+b+B+B+B+BB+
GolduckBBbBBBB-B
Gourgeist-SmallBB-b-B-B-B-B-B-
GranbullBBa-BBBBB-
Grimer-AlolaBAaAAAAA-
KecleonBA-a-A-A-A-A-B
LaprasBB+bB+B+BB+B
LickilickyBBb+BB+BBC+
MarowakBBbBBBBC+
MonfernoBCcCC+CC+C-
RampardosBBb-B-BBBB-
PuruglyBB+b+A-BB+B+B
PyukumukuBBbBBBBC+
Silvally-GrassBURDCC+CDD
VigorothBB-c+CC+B+BB-
VolbeatBC+cC+C+BCC-
BasculinB-C+URC+C+C+CC-
CorsolaB-CbCCCCC-
DittoB-B-b-BB-BB-B-
DugtrioB-B-b-B-B-BBC+
DuosionB-BbBB-BB+B-
DrifblimB-B-b-B-B-C+BC
ElectrodeB-BbBB-BB-C+
FraxureB-Bb+B+B-BBB
GlaceonB-B-cB-B-B-CC
HippopotasB-B-b-B-B-B-B-C+
HuntailB-B-cBB-BB-C+
MachokeB-CcC-C+CC+C
SawsbuckB-B-b-B-B-B-BC-
TrevenantB-B+b+B+B+B+BC+
ArbokC+C+c+C+C+C+C+C+
BibarelC+C+cB-C+BCC+
CradilyC+C+c+CC+C+C+C-
Golem-AlolaC+CcCCCCC
JumpluffC+CcCC+CCC
Lycanroc-MidnightC+C-DC-C-URDC
MetangC+C-c-CC-URDUR
NatuC+Cc+C-C-CC+UR
NinjaskC+C+c+C+C+C+CUR
RaticateC+C-DCCCDUR
RelicanthC+C-DCCCDUR
ShiinoticC+Cc+CCCC+C
SwoobatC+B-bBB-B-B-C+
VullabyC+Cc+C+CCCUR
ArmaldoCB-b-B-CBB-C+
BearticCC+c+BB-BC+C+
ChimechoCC-DC-C-CDC-
Hakamo-oCC-DC-CCDC-
IvysaurCURurC-C-URDUR
ProbopassCCc+C+CCC+C-
QuilladinCC+c+C+CCB-C
RegiceCURurC-C-URDUR
SmeargleCCDCCCDC-
StunfiskCCc+CCCC+C-
VibravaCCcCCURCUR
ZebstrikaCCurC+C-CCC-
CarbinkC-C-c+C-C-URC+UR
FlareonC-URurURURURURUR
FrogadierC-URurURURURDD
GabiteC-URdC-URURDUR
LeavannyC-URurC-URURURUR
Meowstic MC-C-dC-C-C-DC+
MisdreavusC-C-cCC-C-CC-
MurkrowC-URurURURURURUR
NoctowlC-URurURURURURUR
Oricorio FireC-C-dC-C-C-DUR
PalpitoadC-URurURURURURUR
SolrockC-C-urC-CC-URUR
ZweilousC-C-cC-CC-C+UR

This has been a huge update as there hadn't been one for over a year. Main changes are as follow:
  • Silvally formes have overall got worse, as Silvally-Poison and Dragon remain the best ones. Other defensive Pokemon have also rose back as a result, such as Kecleon, Sandslash, and Mawile.
  • Cheesy sweepers like Swanna, Combusken, and Crustle have got easier to deal with.
  • Balance breakers like Beheeyem, Toucannon, and Poliwrath have risen in popularity. While on the other hands, Normal types such as Komala, Bouffalant, and Furfrou aren't as effective as they used to be.
  • Alolan Grimer has finally been reckognized for its great assets as a defensive Pokemon able to always reliably make progress with Knock Off, Pursuit, and Poison Touch.
  • A lot of digimons that nobody had been using have been dropped or even unranked.
a fruitshop owner has also resigned from his position, and we would like to thank him for his contributions.
 
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GSC ZU Viability List Update!

Olympiad has concluded, and the current VL is out of date. With the addition of several council members, we have decided to conduct an update for the viability list! Thank you to everyone who voted. This will likely be the last act by the council until the new ZU metagame is upon us after PU holds their VR update, so thank you all for the ride so far. I and I'm sure many others are looking forward to a bright future, but for now, we'll ZU later. Keep in mind that this list is not ordered within tiers.

S Rank
:pmd/wartortle: Wartortle
:pmd/charmeleon: Charmeleon


A Rank
:pmd/bayleef: Bayleef
:pmd/voltorb: Voltorb
:pmd/teddiursa: Teddiursa
:pmd/grimer: Grimer
:pmd/aipom: Aipom
:pmd/onix: Onix
:pmd/poliwag: Poliwag
:pmd/quilava: Quilava
:pmd/weepinbell: Weepinbell


B Rank
:pmd/mantine: Mantine
:pmd/koffing: Koffing
:pmd/omanyte: Omanyte
:pmd/croconaw: Croconaw
:pmd/togetic: Togetic


C Rank
:pmd/magby: Magby
:pmd/parasect: Parasect
:pmd/meowth: Meowth
:pmd/dratini: Dratini
:pmd/doduo: Doduo
:pmd/sandshrew: Sandshrew
:pmd/tentacool: Tentacool
:pmd/nidorina: Nidorina
:pmd/ivysaur: Ivysaur
:pmd/geodude: Geodude


D Rank
:pmd/butterfree: Butterfree
:pmd/shellder: Shellder
:pmd/mankey: Mankey
:pmd/nidorino: Nidorino
:pmd/diglett: Diglett
:pmd/smoochum: Smoochum
:pmd/slowpoke: Slowpoke
:pmd/snubbull: Snubbull


F Rank
:pmd/goldeen: Goldeen
:pmd/natu: Natu
:pmd/mareep: Mareep
:pmd/yanma: Yanma
:pmd/pidgeotto: Pidgeotto
:pmd/machop: Machop
 
Announcement post discussing BW ZU's upcoming plans. Firstly I'd like to thank btboy and JonAmon 25 for their contributions to the tier as they are stepping down. I can't thank them enough, considering they made just fixes to the metagame right before ZU's largest tour ever and that's the whole reason I'm part of this tier in the first place. skrimps is filling their shoes, and is an overdue inclusion considering his activity and proficiency in the tier.

Relatively soon, I will be rolling out a tiering survey open to a large amount of the BW ZU playerbase discussing potential tiering direction. We (the council) feel as though the meta is in a great spot, but I think it's important to directly check the pulse of the meta at least once every couple of years. Once ZU World Cup is over, I will ask for submissions from tour players for a new viability ranking as well.
 
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