Metagame USUM Pure Hackmons

[Ransei]

Despite not having played Ultra Hackmons in a round during Pure Hackmons Premier League, I've built three teams for my teammates and other teams throughout the tour that I've simply used for testing purposes.

Yourself asked me to build teams for them during Week 5. Here are the teams I built:


https://pokepast.es/0d253688011934a7
This is just a normal team centered around No Guard Pheromosa. It went unused in PHPL but I liked it so I ended up using it for more casual purposes following week 5.


https://pokepast.es/4fd82d4195586abc
I understood that the game of Ultra Hackmons in a tournament setting was to build stuff to throw your opponent off as much as possible, so with this I decided to build Psysurge Mega Mewtwo X spam with an Innards Out Blissey. These Mewtwo were simply made to hit hard enough to regularly land KOs. Prankster Tailwind was added as a surprise factor to have Mega Mewtwo Xs outspeed out of nowhere, especially helping the Evoboost set. This team also went unused and to be honest, I haven't used it at all either.


https://pokepast.es/c919f16f02a67adc
This is a variant of an existing team I've made (which will be shown further down on this post). The team normally has Magic Guard Mega Gyarados and Zygarde-Complete but I replaced Gyarados with Mega Mewtwo X to make the team simpler to utilize for one game and replaced Mega Slowbro for Zygarde-Complete assuming hard Zygarde-Complete answers would be ran. The other variants of the team are better but I figured it would be possible for this one to nab one game especially considering the nature of Harvestspam.


=============================================================================================

Extra


https://pokepast.es/15de19a3c34fbef0
Ah yes, Mega Audino + Mega Mewtwo X + Zygarde-Complete. What a typical Ransei team. This one was made in attempt to experiment with Mega Heracross and its effectiveness against Meloetta. I also decided to try out Lagging Tail Arceus for whatever reason.


https://pokepast.es/ad44f3b34bb8f867
Another attempt to counteract Meloetta and this time while using two Mega Mewtwo Xs. The Mega Steelix has Misty Terrain, which I think was for counteracting potential Psysurge HO? Anyway I don't think this team is very good because I lost most of the games I played with it.


https://pokepast.es/518610b5121638cb
I just wanted a fun sand team and to use Mega Aerodactyl again. Nothing more. Something reminiscent of an RMT I made in 2020. I didn't even have high expectations for this team. It somehow started gaining interest when I started using it against PH regulars on ladder since it was able to pull off beating them. It has also won me test games against teams that won rounds in PHPL, so I suppose this is at least a pretty decent team.



https://pokepast.es/664f9f51dc9971c3
https://pokepast.es/24bad40ac519fa39
These were teams built for harvest dragons to go insane in as they give Zygarde-Complete a terrible time, are very difficult to stop outside Imposter/Innards Out, and can easily destroy games if left unchecked. The Ultra Necrozma team was built first (with Mega Gyarados to defeat Innards Out and Guzzlord to put a tent on Imposter, which unfortunately doesn't become reliable with smart play). Mega Rayquaza can OHKO Zygarde-Complete but isn't outright better since it comes with different (arguably more significant) weaknesses to bear and Harvest Ultra Necrozma doing 90% to Zygarde instead of 100% doesn't matter very much because this still leaves Zygarde-Complete effectively destroyed. They're fully-realized versions of the team that was used for PHPL.

I wanted to post here since it may be beneficial to this thread. I'll post the teams I did use in my PHPL matches on separate threads, although my browser crashed out and cleared all my cookies on me a few days ago. I was able to find these USUM teams (and will be able to find almost all my other relevant teams) due to having made pokepastes for these teams and shoving them in many places I could easily find.

 

[The Guy Who Has Many Alts]

Ignore every other PHPL team dump. This is what true USUM PH teams look like. For the record, I have minutes of experience in analysing, building and playing gen 7 PH. I have reached high 1100s and peaked even 1150s.


https://pokepast.es/23b5e4be2db1e09a


https://pokepast.es/edf0de3e1cf7d447

 

[Akira]

Personal VR
Subtiers are ordered so you can imagine + and - ranks if you like. FTR Blobs are S, Slaking is S- and A+ is Gengar MMX Gyarados.
I don't think the VR should distinguish Wonder Guards that's silly.
Greninja is obviously Ash Greninja.

Feel free to argue with this I know it is extremely unorthodox.

Why are Slaking and Gengar above MMX?
In Slaking's case it is because it has good anti-offense sets (HP Fakespeed), Stallbreaking sets (Harvest) and ALSO functions as a top-tier Wonder Guard.
Gengar is better than MMX because except on HO, MMX realistically always needs to run Shed Shell or be at the mercy of Stag. Gengar can run Choice Items, Sash, Trick Black Sludge or even Life Orb. Items are crazy good.

Edit
Many people are asking why Tapu Bulu is ranked. That is because this core ought to be good and Bulu is the only guy who can Improof.

Bulu Core

Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Shed Shell
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Spore
- Spikes / Shift Gear

Tapu Bulu @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Arena Trap / Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Let's Snuggle Forever
- Trick
- Strength Sap
- Perish Song

 

[aerobee]

Some noms. I honestly have way too many and got bored in the middle and in place of the rest of the noms I've created a personal VR at the bottom of this post. I'll update if more noms/clarifications of differences between the real VR and mine if people want.

__________________________________________________________________

S --> S-/A+

Clearly meta-defining but not actually that splashable from my experience. 130 Speed is decent at best for an offensive mon (thanks to reliably walling MMX being a near-impossibility) and while it may not seem intuitive offensive counterplay is reliable enough relative to defensive checks that out-offensing opposing MMX is entirely feasible. Outside of Huge Power MMX faces much more immediate competition from other offensive mons (Primal Groudon/MMY as STAG mons, MMY/Giratina-O as offensive Innards users, MMY/Pheromosa/AshGren etc. as No Guard users). Overall significantly less effective and warping than Chansey/Blissey and imo a drop is warranted.

(A+ --> S-)

Optional imo and depends on your interpretation of what a VR is supposed to represent. While in practice Slaking isn't significantly more splashable than the other A+ ranks, its impact on the metagame is substantially greater than any of them individually and grossly restricts building on balance/stall to account for it specifically. I don't think the Huge Power sets are quite meta-defining but they are very good as well

S --> A+

Still a very good mon that demands careful prep, but overall much harder to fit than before. Zygarde also only really fits on bulkier archetypes (and a few wacky offenses though I don't love it on those) and I personally believe that offense is significantly better than balance/stall at this point if your opponent is remotely competent.

A --> A+

Don't feel as strongly about this nom as the others, but MMY outspeeds MMX/AshGren while being a top-tier offense mon in its own right. I usually don't buy set unpredictability arguments but they are also a consideration for MMY (which can run basically anything it wants as needed) which functions well with all of No Guard/Innards/Magic Guard/Protean/Huge Power with significant variability with each set. Built with MMY WAY more in HPL than literally any other 'mon (13 uses, with the next being MMX at 8 and Blissey at 7).

A+ --> A-

Too exploitable to be A+ imo. Most good MMX sets outright threaten Doublade (Moongeist Beam/Searing Shot being the main coverage moves), reliance on Eviolite means you're more vulnerable against random Spore, and Magic Bounce/Sturdy are terrible.

B+ --> A-

Fits on basically every archetype (great MG/Huge Power/Magic Bounce users on HO, good bouncer on balance/stall) and is easily justifiable at all of these roles thanks to its convenient typing, unlike in ORAS.

B- --> B+

Honestly really solid revenge killer/offensive pressurer with Fake Out 4th (with the other three moves being Shadow Sneak/V-create/Sunsteel), though this struggles with Zygarde-C. Spectral (or Let's Snuggle Forever) over Fake Out makes Marowak an overall more potent breaker, though the potency of the combination of Fake Out + Shadow Sneak cannot be understated.

A- --> B/B-

This shit's super fake since you're revenged by Scarf Gengar even after Shell Smash and Kartana outdamages you anyway (while also being faster and Spore-immune). Mostly outclassed and not all that effective anymore

A --> B- or lower

Defensive sets are essentially outclassed by Steelix, and the upsides (slightly higher Attack/random Water moves???) aren't worth giving up Steelix's slightly better bulk/slower Speed for pivoting(/ability to block Volt Switches). Huge Power/Simple Shell Smash sets are maybe justifiable on the right structures but otherwise I don't think there are realistic reasons to run this.

B+ --> B-
Same reasons as NDM except you can't even run Solganium Z

UR --> B-

Harvest with Evoboost/SSS/Soulblaze/recovery 1v1s Slaking, threatens Zygarde, and isn't strictly hardcountered by Innards Out blobs since Clangorous Soulblaze doesn't KO at +2 (and Blissey lives at +4 vs. neutral nature Dialga). Setup Huge Power is also passable but is mostly outdone by Kartana/Solgaleo. Better than the stuff in C for sure

UR --> C

Solid Magic Bounce mon on HO since No Guard is really annoying for that archetype and Magic Bounce blocks sleep (and is useful on HO in general for various reasons). I've also tried Comatose, which beats Prankster Taunt Zygarde-C with Clangorous Soulblaze and chunks some WGs with Z-Moongeist/Photon. Had I not overestimated the calc against Scizor here Kyurem would've gotten 2+ KOs and substantially chipped Slaking/Blissey. Also passed Kyurem-W HO once in PHPL, though sadly that team lost due to being rather difficult to pilot.

__________________________________________________________________

Wonder Guard:

A+ --> A

Just doesn't cut it anymore defensively. Sweeper sets it completely walls are absolutely garbage (it's why you haven't seen MG Gengar/NDW at all in PHPL) and therefore rarer, everyone conserves Innards for strictly offensive mons so its weak hits are less useful as anti-Innards security, and it's generally more scared of mons it theoretically checks these days since they're generally more effective (think Taunt Smash/mixed Sunsteel WGs). Pursuit No Guards are also less prevalent so Meloetta's (which also better walls the special Photon mons that are more common these days) better in comparison than before.

A --> Much lower

Due to the prevalence of Pursuit, Meloetta actually wants max speed these days imo. In those situations Oranguru is completely outclassed.

A --> B

Very specialized mon in practice that, while I think has genuine use cases on specific team archetypes, is just bad on 95% of teams. When setting up you have to be wary of Spectral/Knock Off users (the defensive typing doesn't actually enable a sweep that effectively), and even at +2 you're outsped by Scarf Gengar and have trouble with multiple of Imposter/Yveltal/Muk/Meloetta/Gyarados/Audino/Prankster Zygarde-C, depending on the set. imo the main thing Dawn Wings has going for it is the ability to threaten Scarf Imposter with Ultra Burst (into outspeeding), but I've nearly always elected to run something else over NDW when I have the opportunity to.

Personal VR

S Rank
S

Blissey

Chansey

Wonder Guard

Wonder Guard Viability Rankings

(Moved the entire VR up one subrank)

A Rank
A+

Audino-Mega

Greninja-Ash

Gyarados-Mega

Meloetta

Muk-Alola

Slowbro-Mega

A

Arceus

Kartana

Slaking

A-

Celesteela

Groudon-Primal

Ferrothorn

Hoopa-Unbound

Kyogre-Primal

Scizor-Mega

Swampert-Mega

B Rank
B+

Necrozma-Dawn-Wings

Sableye-Mega

Umbreon

B

Cresselia

Dialga

Gardevoir-Mega

Houndoom-Mega

Mewtwo-Mega-Y

Solgaleo

Steelix-Mega

Yveltal

B-

Bisharp

Darkrai

Heatran

Ho-Oh

Pheromosa

Regigigas

Type: Null

Zeraora

C Rank

Aggron-Mega

Beedrill-Mega

Blissey

Chansey

Darmanitan-Zen

Empoleon

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite

Incineroar

Magearna

Pidgeot @ Pidgeotite

S-

Mewtwo-Mega-X

A Rank
A+

Gengar-Mega

Groudon-Primal

Kartana

Mewtwo-Mega-Y

Slaking

Zygarde-Complete

A

Greninja-Ash

Regigigas

Steelix-Mega

A-

Gyarados-Mega

Doublade

Solgaleo

Yveltal

B Rank
B+

Deoxys-Attack

Diancie-Mega

Giratina-Origin

Lopunny-Mega

Lunala

Marowak-Alola

Rayquaza-Mega

Slowbro-Mega

B

Alakazam-Mega

Celesteela

Deoxys-Speed

Dialga

Heracross-Mega

Ho-Oh

Kyurem-Black

Pheromosa

B-

Arceus

Articuno

Banette-Mega

Gardevoir-Mega

Guzzlord

Kyogre-Primal

Giratina

Metagross-Mega

Necrozma-Dawn-Wings

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane

Necrozma-Ultra

Type: Null

C Rank

Aerodactyl-Mega

Aggron-Mega

Cresselia

Excadrill

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite

Kyurem-White

Lugia

Pikachu

Sceptile-Mega

Scizor-Mega

 

[Guysmash]

(A+ --> S-)

Yeah I totally do agree, I already talk about this in my personal VR but it’s sets are really amazing : the classic Harvest CFZ forces most balance/stall teams to run either CEnforcer or innards blob to force it out before kiling with Stag (PSong or ClangMRay). Others sets like WG Pursuit is an excellent counter to MGar PBond (scarfed) and it can still support the team with its great physical bulk and MGeist immunity. Fighting coverage moves are almost not runned in the current meta (except for MMX) which allows it to switch-in freely on a lot of mons.

Finally I recently used the FakeSpeed EEvoboost leppa set and its revenge killer capacity is excellent. And also if the oppo lost its imposter : +4 252+ Atk Huge Power Slaking Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 631-744 (99.2 - 116.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO (ik this is more situational)

S --> A+

I don’t agree with that. Even if offense teams seem to get more and more powerful, defensive one are still good and Zygod is almost a most have. Outside of HP Ice Shard sweepers it’s hard to pass it if it has DBond (or Spore). Moreover ig it can be used on some offense teams as Innards Out that improofs a specic mon (?) (Same in balanced but being imposter instead if innards).

Maybe S- would be great for Zyg.

B+ --> A-

Yeah Yveltal is underrated, it has an amazing defensive typing resisting and being immune to respective Photon and MGeist while being neutral to Bug Buzz (the main coverage move runned to hit both Dark Types and Melo). Magic Guard pursuit is nice, I just don’t understand the HP set ? It has a low Atk and a mid offensive Typing.

B- --> B+

I tested it today but only on a low ladder acc (I was running Mono Fire AND on low ladder so what I will say is probably bad).

It hits harder than PDon (without damage boosting item) even if it low Spe can be annoying. Fake Out and SNeak give it many 2HKO on sweepers (mainly after the Def drop of Shell Smash) and gives free kill on both non-WG Mewtwo Mega.

Finally (and this point is almost useless) it is epic as an anti low ladder lead : it destroys Deo S and is immune to Shed's endeavour even after an Entrainment, and as opposed as MGar, it doesn't need Scarf to do so.

I think B instead of B+ would be better however.

A- --> B/B-

Honestly I've only saw it on low ladder and I still don’t understand why it should be used.

Solg as more bulk and more HP -> better innards/double Photon resist. Kart and MMX have more Spe and Atk -> better sweepers. NDW has a move that OHKOs itself -> better selfproofed mon with UNecrozium.

I don’t say the mon is bad it has just no reason to be used.

B+/B or UR (because useless).

Slaking

In your VR you ranked it A+ instead of S-

 

[Yourself]

(A+ --> S-)

Optional imo and depends on your interpretation of what a VR is supposed to represent. While in practice Slaking isn't significantly more splashable than the other A+ ranks, its impact on the metagame is substantially greater than any of them individually and grossly restricts building on balance/stall to account for it specifically. I don't think the Huge Power sets are quite meta-defining but they are very good as well

i feel like harvest slak isn't as insane as it's made out to be as it is relatively easy for balance to account for it in the form of a move that forces it out (taunt, whirlwind, core enforcer, ect) or just innards chansey which is very good currently, and the only archetype it really hurts is stall. as well idt it's fakespeed set are as great as ppl make it out to be (atleast if ur running it on balance) because offense usually runs innards which it can use on slaking so balance usually needs 2 anti offense mons, and vs bulkier teams with innards/stag you can struggle as your main breaker dies to innards/stag and slaking will struggle to break by itself (which is the main criticism of zenith mode). still a+ imo

S --> A+

Still a very good mon that demands careful prep, but overall much harder to fit than before. Zygarde also only really fits on bulkier archetypes (and a few wacky offenses though I don't love it on those) and I personally believe that offense is significantly better than balance/stall at this point if your opponent is remotely competent.

i feel like where you put zygod depends on what you think the vr is supposed to look like, but i can see where ur coming from. on ladder zygod is a godsend due to stopping set up spam bs and hard walling many teams, and it is very meta warping in that most teams will need an answer for it (or multiple) or it can just completely hard wall u. but if ur interpretation of the vr is purely how good it is in high level games, this ranking makes sense. all the huge power sweepers run shard, most mmx will be teching for it in someway, and many special attackers will have something for it so in high level games it feels like a soft check to mmx with reflect and a wall to some special attackers, it's passive so it kinda just kills momentum on balance (especially without twaves and bc of harvest slak u may be more inclined to run core enforcer), and isn't really a mon u would run on offense which is currently the dominant archetype

A --> B- or lower

Defensive sets are essentially outclassed by Steelix, and the upsides (slightly higher Attack/random Water moves???) aren't worth giving up Steelix's slightly better bulk/slower Speed for pivoting(/ability to block Volt Switches). Huge Power/Simple Shell Smash sets are maybe justifiable on the right structures but otherwise I don't think there are realistic reasons to run this.

the actual main draw is the grass resist allowing it to wall kart better (and a few other minor benefits). imo aggron is better if ur not running twaves and not running twaves is more justifiable now as you may need to fit a harvest slaking answer so i don't think there should be a massive gap between mlix and aggron.

A --> B

Very specialized mon in practice that, while I think has genuine use cases on specific team archetypes, is just bad on 95% of teams. When setting up you have to be wary of Spectral/Knock Off users (the defensive typing doesn't actually enable a sweep that effectively), and even at +2 you're outsped by Scarf Gengar and have trouble with multiple of Imposter/Yveltal/Muk/Meloetta/Gyarados/Audino/Prankster Zygarde-C, depending on the set. imo the main thing Dawn Wings has going for it is the ability to threaten Scarf Imposter with Ultra Burst (into outspeeding), but I've nearly always elected to run something else over NDW when I have the opportunity to.

while yes dawn wings has it's issues, i still think it is better then the other wg sweepers and you haven't changed their rankings. dawn wings isn't weak to bug which is a big deal because 1. u turn 2. first impression and hoopa has a 4x bug weakness as well as being slow, ash gren has power issues without the moldy stab and gyara gets walled by every prankhaze ever, and they all don't really beat the wg steels. dawn wings does have to pick and choose what it beats (as does every mgeist smasher really) but idt it's issues are as bad as the other wg smashers. yeah the wg sweepers have gotten worse as 1. the teams they find themselves on are vunerable to innards and 2. they get walled more now but i do think you should of atleast dropped the others too and probably put dawn wings above them.

 

[AV Cosmoem]

i gotta talk about the sample situation cause it's really not it right now

(Primal Groudon Spam by aerobee)
this team's really stupid and it also sucks, it's way too slow to match the speed of other offense. but it makes tons of coin for the community so it shouldn't actually be removed lol

(Smash Mega Gyarados Psychic Terrain Hyper Offense by aerobee)
building full teams around psysurge is a bad idea cause your breakers already ohko everything without psysurge and so all it does is encourage you to run the same coverage on every mon. the anti-offense options (sash mg deo-a and scarf innards mmy) are already good without psysurge too. scarf innards mmy is also a dumb set that thuds into literally everything that's not HO. the improofing is also super sketch and if they lead bounce or t1 coat the game's over. having really strong and fast stuff isn't enough to be a good offense in this meta, you actually need a backbone and flexibility which this team lacks

(No Guard Lopunny Hyper Offense by Bahamut)
not opposed to the idea of dual mg offense, actually sounds cool. but wow the improofing is nonexistent on this team. you can't just slap 1 innards on and decide impostor can't do anything anymore, espcially when mg mgar doesn't even have a revenge killer, let alone a switch in. the coverage stack is also insane, mmx/mdia/deo-a lose to like half the same shit. evs also don't make any sense (deo-a that speed ties with ashgren? jolly lo espeed mmx? max atk mlop with no physical moves?). blatantly unoptimized teams shouldn't make samples

(PBond Gengar + Bounce PDon Offense by NToTheN)
the improof to bonemerang mmx is literally air balloon alomuk, who is also the improof for mgar because it's inexplicably bug buzz so melo can't beat it... do the math. also there's 2 defogs on this "offense" and can we talk about 0 shed shells so stag has a field day? and bounce pdon? and literally why is melo here? be serious

(Trick-or-Treat Yveltal Balance by AV Cosmoem)
is it my sample? yes. will i defend and say it's sample worthy? yes. this team lacks meaningful priority which is a problem, but impostor + zyg + bounce usually gives you enough room vs offense, and generally offense doesn't like double dark at all. i think this team is very optimized with few weak points in it, plus it has performed well vs every archetype. don't see a reason to take it off samples

(Zenith Mode by Ransei)
there was a whole saga in phpl about how this team sucks, and yeah i can't say i disagree. idk why there's 2 separate instances of goggles but it means that stag owns this team. sturdy dblade's just terrible, i'd rather the dblade be prank and the zyg be a 2nd wg or maybe even an innards. also if there's an innards and the opponent doesn't randomly throw it on a defensive mon then this team literally can't make progress. there's no way to chip it (rocks aren't enough) and if it trades one of its own breakers then it doesn't have enough firepower so it loses. also band mmx isn't my fave, even lo is better and that set isn't great either. the harv mu also sucks; not even just vs harvslak, the cfz spammers also give this team a ton of trouble. and why is it naughty mmx with no special moves? this team needs a big structure change to be a good sample and at that point just redo it from the start

(Diamancie Balance by Eyeos)
not the worst but it's pretty unoptimized. this has the same problem as zenith mode where there's no way to chip (wisp isn't enough) or trap innards and you have 2 offensive mons. however it is better here vs zenith mode because at least here mdia can sweep, and vs innards offense you can chip it with boomburst. also sacking msciz usually doesn't hurt a lot. defensive core is also not diverse, msciz and dblade wall half the same shit and melo and dblade have 3 of the exact same moves. speed control is really whatever because if the opponent's sweepers don't die to mdia or mmx espeed (so most of them), your only hope is to use non-evio and non-shed impostor, though it really should be one of those two; pixie plate imp is like no item cause you already have msciz and mdia as anti-wg smashers anyway. it's also worse cause you don't have hazards so sash as the improof actually does work vs this team. shore up is unoptimal, it heals less than other recovery moves and literally who is bringing sand? also band mmx again lol, it's not even ada

(Substitute Harvest Slaking Semistall by sussyamongusdrip)
that zyg set is terrible but if you make it normal then this is a good team. well also there needs to be way less pivoting, this is a semistall team and you don't need to keep the momentum up like that. but i'd say this team's pretty optimized and just needs some move changes and probably should be shed shell zyg as well

(Shadow Tag Gyarados Stall by Eyeos)
this team needs to get out of samples. it's not really the team's fault, it's not perfect but it's pretty well built. but stall just shouldn't go anywhere near samples, it's the worst playstyle by a huge margin and it's also the hardest one to play as. you need team familiarity and meta knowledge to pilot stall in this tier and no new player is gonna understand how to win consistently with it. on this team, for example, you have to manage burn vs toxic on different threats, but new players are just gonna derp click tspikes and inflict regular poison on the mmx, then switch their steela into ltbts and lose. it's not even a good playstyle so you can't justify the high maintenance for samples at all

thanks for reading

 

[Ransei]

i gotta talk about the sample situation cause it's really not it right now

(Primal Groudon Spam by aerobee)
this team's really stupid and it also sucks, it's way too slow to match the speed of other offense. but it makes tons of coin for the community so it shouldn't actually be removed lol

(Smash Mega Gyarados Psychic Terrain Hyper Offense by aerobee)
building full teams around psysurge is a bad idea cause your breakers already ohko everything without psysurge and so all it does is encourage you to run the same coverage on every mon. the anti-offense options (sash mg deo-a and scarf innards mmy) are already good without psysurge too. scarf innards mmy is also a dumb set that thuds into literally everything that's not HO. the improofing is also super sketch and if they lead bounce or t1 coat the game's over. having really strong and fast stuff isn't enough to be a good offense in this meta, you actually need a backbone and flexibility which this team lacks

(No Guard Lopunny Hyper Offense by Bahamut)
not opposed to the idea of dual mg offense, actually sounds cool. but wow the improofing is nonexistent on this team. you can't just slap 1 innards on and decide impostor can't do anything anymore, espcially when mg mgar doesn't even have a revenge killer, let alone a switch in. the coverage stack is also insane, mmx/mdia/deo-a lose to like half the same shit. evs also don't make any sense (deo-a that speed ties with ashgren? jolly lo espeed mmx? max atk mlop with no physical moves?). blatantly unoptimized teams shouldn't make samples

(PBond Gengar + Bounce PDon Offense by NToTheN)
the improof to bonemerang mmx is literally air balloon alomuk, who is also the improof for mgar because it's inexplicably bug buzz so melo can't beat it... do the math. also there's 2 defogs on this "offense" and can we talk about 0 shed shells so stag has a field day? and bounce pdon? and literally why is melo here? be serious

(Trick-or-Treat Yveltal Balance by AV Cosmoem)
is it my sample? yes. will i defend and say it's sample worthy? yes. this team lacks meaningful priority which is a problem, but impostor + zyg + bounce usually gives you enough room vs offense, and generally offense doesn't like double dark at all. i think this team is very optimized with few weak points in it, plus it has performed well vs every archetype. don't see a reason to take it off samples

(Zenith Mode by Ransei)
there was a whole saga in phpl about how this team sucks, and yeah i can't say i disagree. idk why there's 2 separate instances of goggles but it means that stag owns this team. sturdy dblade's just terrible, i'd rather the dblade be prank and the zyg be a 2nd wg or maybe even an innards. also if there's an innards and the opponent doesn't randomly throw it on a defensive mon then this team literally can't make progress. there's no way to chip it (rocks aren't enough) and if it trades one of its own breakers then it doesn't have enough firepower so it loses. also band mmx isn't my fave, even lo is better and that set isn't great either. the harv mu also sucks; not even just vs harvslak, the cfz spammers also give this team a ton of trouble. and why is it naughty mmx with no special moves? this team needs a big structure change to be a good sample and at that point just redo it from the start

(Diamancie Balance by Eyeos)
not the worst but it's pretty unoptimized. this has the same problem as zenith mode where there's no way to chip (wisp isn't enough) or trap innards and you have 2 offensive mons. however it is better here vs zenith mode because at least here mdia can sweep, and vs innards offense you can chip it with boomburst. also sacking msciz usually doesn't hurt a lot. defensive core is also not diverse, msciz and dblade wall half the same shit and melo and dblade have 3 of the exact same moves. speed control is really whatever because if the opponent's sweepers don't die to mdia or mmx espeed (so most of them), your only hope is to use non-evio and non-shed impostor, though it really should be one of those two; pixie plate imp is like no item cause you already have msciz and mdia as anti-wg smashers anyway. it's also worse cause you don't have hazards so sash as the improof actually does work vs this team. shore up is unoptimal, it heals less than other recovery moves and literally who is bringing sand? also band mmx again lol, it's not even ada

(Substitute Harvest Slaking Semistall by sussyamongusdrip)
that zyg set is terrible but if you make it normal then this is a good team. well also there needs to be way less pivoting, this is a semistall team and you don't need to keep the momentum up like that. but i'd say this team's pretty optimized and just needs some move changes and probably should be shed shell zyg as well

(Shadow Tag Gyarados Stall by Eyeos)
this team needs to get out of samples. it's not really the team's fault, it's not perfect but it's pretty well built. but stall just shouldn't go anywhere near samples, it's the worst playstyle by a huge margin and it's also the hardest one to play as. you need team familiarity and meta knowledge to pilot stall in this tier and no new player is gonna understand how to win consistently with it. on this team, for example, you have to manage burn vs toxic on different threats, but new players are just gonna derp click tspikes and inflict regular poison on the mmx, then switch their steela into ltbts and lose. it's not even a good playstyle so you can't justify the high maintenance for samples at all

thanks for reading

Ignoring any other criticisms I have with this, there's one question I should ask.

What would make a good sample and how does one prove it? Can we see an example of such team and where this is showcased? If these teams aren't it, no team I've ever seen has proven to be "it" so far then, and I can perhaps explain why.

One of the most notable things about Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon Pure Hackmons is the sheer inability to create a team that handles every major threatening Pokémon and ability in the metagame. Every single team comes with gaping holes that can easily be exploited by numerous bad matchups, and doing anything to fix that causes you to be weak to another major threat while overcoming one. Even the best teams this metagame has ever seen are like this, but how does one  prove it fits in? Ladder records nor popularity of a team don't seem to matter judging by the posts opposing these samples and I've only ever seen one team built for a tour game go very well on the ladder by virtue of it being spam, which is more prone to being counterteamed than any other archetype when used enough. I don't think I've seen any team used for tours being used more than a few times at most as well, and this is especially risky in USUM given how much more easily your team is to getting counterteamed in environments where the amount of games you play are more limited.

None of these teams "are perfect" and "could use changes" but even with those changes they are forever stuck in this position when other specific threats emerge in the metagame. One small example is how one could use Shed Shell Zygarde-Complete, which helps against Shadow Tag, but now leaves you vulnerable to Spore sweeper, which is critical due to the team relying on that Zygarde to stop them. Sweepers can use Spore, set up, and end Zygarde-Complete as well as its whole team due to sleep turns. If it runs Safety Goggles then it beats those attackers but is more vulnerable to Shadow Tag. Personally the reason I use Safety Goggles more is because Shadow Tag is the less frequent of issues Zygarde-Complete has, but on the ladder for example there are specific times where that's not the case and these times cycle in and out.

When playing this game the best measure is usually just to rotate between teams, although when not using spam, you can usually get away with using just one unless you beat the same players over again or are known to use a specific group of Pokémon, allowing you to become easier to prep for.

But anyway, I'm confused still. If even some of the most "proven" teams thus far are considered "bad", What  is a good team and how does one display this for other players to follow... in more than 1 game, since you can pull off winning one game against notable players with pretty much anything.

 

[Yourself]

But anyway, I'm confused still. If even some of the most "proven" teams thus far are considered "bad", What  is a good team and how does one display this for other players to follow... in more than 1 game, since you can pull off winning one game against notable players with pretty much anything.

the reason why these said "proven" teams (mainly zenith mode tbh) are considered bad is because that team prioritises doing well into ladder at the cost of simply not being a good team in high level play. i suppose that also comes down to the "pick your team's weaknesses" thing, but the answer to your question is that generally people consider a team that is good to be a team that goes well into high level players while being able to out play timmy and jimmy on ladder, where as you think zenith mode having zygod and imp and all the anti ladder tech makes it a good team. tbh i think you value ladder way more then you should which influences your opinions and then the vr and samples, but imo the ladder is dogshit and the ladder shouldn't be took into great consideration when like 90% of ladder is terrible players and the already rare good players have turned to nuzlockes and mmx spam. while i will admit there isn't really any good examples atm of the definition of a good team i gave u, i still think we should follow the footsteps of other formats with bad ladders like bh and have our samples be usable in high level play whilst being able to outplay bad players on the ladder.

 

[AV Cosmoem]

Ignoring any other criticisms I have with this, there's one question I should ask.

What would make a good sample and how does one prove it? Can we see an example of such team and where this is showcased? If these teams aren't it, no team I've ever seen has proven to be "it" so far then, and I can perhaps explain why.

One of the most notable things about Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon Pure Hackmons is the sheer inability to create a team that handles every major threatening Pokémon and ability in the metagame. Every single team comes with gaping holes that can easily be exploited by numerous bad matchups, and doing anything to fix that causes you to be weak to another major threat while overcoming one. Even the best teams this metagame has ever seen are like this, but how does one  prove it fits in? Ladder records nor popularity of a team don't seem to matter judging by the posts opposing these samples and I've only ever seen one team built for a tour game go very well on the ladder by virtue of it being spam, which is more prone to being counterteamed than any other archetype when used enough. I don't think I've seen any team used for tours being used more than a few times at most as well, and this is especially risky in USUM given how much more easily your team is to getting counterteamed in environments where the amount of games you play are more limited.

None of these teams "are perfect" and "could use changes" but even with those changes they are forever stuck in this position when other specific threats emerge in the metagame. One small example is how one could use Shed Shell Zygarde-Complete, which helps against Shadow Tag, but now leaves you vulnerable to Spore sweeper, which is critical due to the team relying on that Zygarde to stop them. Sweepers can use Spore, set up, and end Zygarde-Complete as well as its whole team due to sleep turns. If it runs Safety Goggles then it beats those attackers but is more vulnerable to Shadow Tag. Personally the reason I use Safety Goggles more is because Shadow Tag is the less frequent of issues Zygarde-Complete has, but on the ladder for example there are specific times where that's not the case and these times cycle in and out.

When playing this game the best measure is usually just to rotate between teams, although when not using spam, you can usually get away with using just one unless you beat the same players over again or are known to use a specific group of Pokémon, allowing you to become easier to prep for.

But anyway, I'm confused still. If even some of the most "proven" teams thus far are considered "bad", What  is a good team and how does one display this for other players to follow... in more than 1 game, since you can pull off winning one game against notable players with pretty much anything.

your takeaway from this post is very odd, you mention two points that i didn't make.

one, you talk about how it's impossible to defensively cover everything in this tier which, yeah, i know. defensive cores are only as real as your opponent wants them to be, and that's why i don't build much balance anymore. this is a point people usually make when they talk about coverage spammers or double mold move smashers or whatever. in my post, 90% of the threats i mention that are autolosses for these teams are impostor, innards, and stag. these are some of the best and most common abilities in the format. brushing off having literally 0 counterplay to S rank threats as "you can't cover everything" doesn't make sense, those are the FIRST things that should be covered

two, you acted like i said we should trash every sample, but i proposed to keep 3 of the 9 current samples. though one of them is just because pdon spam is good publicity lol. it IS actually possible to prove teams are good and it's been done through the ladder numerous times. it's just not the end all be all. i got #3 on ladder with altrove but i probably wouldn't submit it for samples. i actually picked two teams on the defensive side to keep, and i think defensive teams really aren't it in this meta. it's because those teams have shown they actually have multiple gameplans / answers for every top threat and archetype. they have had success on ladder and they have had success vs good players. and honestly tour success isn't really that meaningful because the top level of this meta is just cteaming

and on your example, shed shell is always gonna be a better item than goggles. for one, goggles doesn't help at all vs lovely kiss or ng sing, but also sleep without goggles gives way more room to outplay than stag without shed shell. if you get slept, there's a 33% chance you get a turn 1 sleep and 9/10 times that happens it puts the momentum in your favor. using sleep moves also give some room for impostor counterplay, since they can tank your hits and sleep you back. if you get trapped without shed shell then you lose the mon, or if they're encore/trickchoice + bp/setup you lose the game. yeah you can pivot out, but every wg wants to be slow and stag mons can nuke you with cfz or immobilize you with encore/taunt, so that's not gonna work forever

if i were actually gonna submit a team i think is sample level, it would be mysterons (maybe with reflect > encore on lix), but i don't think it has enough replays + it's hard to pilot. there are factors outside of team strength such as these that make teams not worthy of samples. but really a lot of my problems are with team strength. some of these are really outdated too, like i swear the mlop team has been here since 2020. in fact a lot of the people who built the samples agree with me about this and have talked about cleaning up samples. if it's help i can assist in building new ones, but it's undeniable that the current ones aren't up to par

 

[IReallyDontKnowlol2]

Sooooo why is anything but Audino ranked again?
With the exception of mbounce pdon literally nothing can come close to its viability.
while its a bit of a glass cannon type it

- one shots everything in the tier
- provides incredible utility to every team
have some calcs: https://pokepast.es/d189de472678c1a0

 

[NoobSpammer]

I’ve actually been wondering actually, “Why do people say Maud . As a wonder Guard, you don’t wall anything. Most Huge Power attackers kill you or put you in a deadly range. Sunsteel also really hurts. The best thing is your Moongeist immune, but that’s it. I guess you soft-check special Photon, but that’s really pushing it

 

[splodge]

Hey guys i was making a personal vr with very detailed explanations and after a few minutes i got up to the point where i was typing about entei and shedninja and how theyre very op with wonder guard burn up and sturdy but i lost the draft so siphonaptera told me to find it but i couldnt find it but i wanted to post something today so i looked at the old samples and realised zenith mode was really bad so i fixed it here https://pokepast.es/cec8ef78b279ac9e this new version is almost as good as pascals bounce pdon zenith mode and i managed to get 1100 elo on the gen 7 pure hackmons ladder with it so pls make it a sample

 

[Guysmash]

Hey guys i was making a personal vr with very detailed explanations and after a few minutes i got up to the point where i was typing about entei and shedninja and how theyre very op with wonder guard burn up and sturdy but i lost the draft so siphonaptera told me to find it but i couldnt find it but i wanted to post something today so i looked at the old samples and realised zenith mode was really bad so i fixed it here https://pokepast.es/cec8ef78b279ac9e this new version is almost as good as pascals bounce pdon zenith mode and i managed to get 1100 elo on the gen 7 pure hackmons ladder with it so pls make it a sample

Bro solved the meta , make him a council member

 

[Eyeos]

Personal VR
SSS+
Groudon is the best this is undisputed one some argue that primal groudon is better but fire is the worst type in the game

A+
Kyogre has water moves to beat Groudon with (Groudon is a top pokemon)
It’s huge power water shuriken lets it do massive damage to Groudon, some say that huge power doesn’t actually boost water shuriken in gen 7, those people are wrong.

A
Slowbro has a unique offensive prowess with its stab psychic this means it can hit top threats like Groudon for neutral damage (very important Groudon is a top pokemon)
Ash greninja always run iron ball in order to under speed defensive Groudon sets(very important Groudon is the best defensive pokemon in the game)

B+
While this does have two of the best types in the game (ground and water) it’s also competing with Groudon (Groudon is a top pokemon) as your ground type
Unlike it’s mega counterpart it’s only weak to grass moves which is a very uncommon weakness

B
while it is mostly outclassed by its primal version it’s iron ball set has picked up some traction as of recently and it does let it outspeed Groudon (Groudon is a top pokemon)

C
while I didn’t entirely believe in this thing until recently it has shown its results most notably its first impression psychic terrain set which lets it take advantage of psychic terrain while being able to first impression any psychic types trying to use the terrain against it like slowbro (slowbro is a top pokemon but not as good as Groudon)

D
I’m not sure what this does yea it does outspeed and ohko the entire meta game in 1 move but it’s weak to slowbro fire blast (a top move) and takes a lot from Groudon (Groudon is a top tier pokemon) so I’m not sure what this does in practice

 

[diemond35472]

Personal VR
SSS+
Groudon is the best this is undisputed one some argue that primal groudon is better but fire is the worst type in the game

A+
Kyogre has water moves to beat Groudon with (Groudon is a top pokemon)
It’s huge power water shuriken lets it do massive damage to Groudon, some say that huge power doesn’t actually boost water shuriken in gen 7, those people are wrong.

A
Slowbro has a unique offensive prowess with its stab psychic this means it can hit top threats like Groudon for neutral damage (very important Groudon is a top pokemon)
Ash greninja always run iron ball in order to under speed defensive Groudon sets(very important Groudon is the best defensive pokemon in the game)

B+
While this does have two of the best types in the game (ground and water) it’s also competing with Groudon (Groudon is a top pokemon) as your ground type
Unlike it’s mega counterpart it’s only weak to grass moves which is a very uncommon weakness

B
while it is mostly outclassed by its primal version it’s iron ball set has picked up some traction as of recently and it does let it outspeed Groudon (Groudon is a top pokemon)

C
while I didn’t entirely believe in this thing until recently it has shown its results most notably its first impression psychic terrain set which lets it take advantage of psychic terrain while being able to first impression any psychic types trying to use the terrain against it like slowbro (slowbro is a top pokemon but not as good as Groudon)

D
I’m not sure what this does yea it does outspeed and ohko the entire meta game in 1 move but it’s weak to slowbro fire blast (a top move) and takes a lot from Groudon (Groudon is a top tier pokemon) so I’m not sure what this does in practice

would like to nominate to SSSS+ because of its ability delta stream letting it remove primoridal sea and the other one. also helps deal with the tyranitar matchup provided it doesnt use contrary draco meteor

please refer to the graph if you disagree

https://pokepast.es/55dfb50c40a90fc2

 

[Eyeos]

would like to nominate to SSSS+ because of its ability delta stream letting it remove primoridal sea and the other one. also helps deal with the tyranitar matchup provided it doesnt use contrary draco meteor

please refer to the graph if you disagree

https://pokepast.es/55dfb50c40a90fc2

Unfortunately ice punch slowbro and ice beam mega gyarados are top moves and rain is something nobody ever uses (there aren’t enough good water types because Groudon isn’t a water type)(Groudon is a top pokemon)

 

[rightclicker]

hello gais today we have top cincos pure hackmons momen

numeros 5
https://pokepast.es/5197bdbe1112eb88

numeros 4

numeros 3
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2061767876

numeros 2

numeros 1

 

[diemond35472]

Unfortunately ice punch slowbro and ice beam mega gyarados are top moves and rain is something nobody ever uses (there aren’t enough good water types because Groudon isn’t a water type)(Groudon is a top pokemon)

yeah but big wind makes ice weaker so it gets to do less damage and ray can peck and because its a sharp beak it hurts like oofie ouchie

 

[splodge]

Personal VR
SSS+
Groudon is the best this is undisputed one some argue that primal groudon is better but fire is the worst type in the game

A+
Kyogre has water moves to beat Groudon with (Groudon is a top pokemon)
It’s huge power water shuriken lets it do massive damage to Groudon, some say that huge power doesn’t actually boost water shuriken in gen 7, those people are wrong.

A
Slowbro has a unique offensive prowess with its stab psychic this means it can hit top threats like Groudon for neutral damage (very important Groudon is a top pokemon)
Ash greninja always run iron ball in order to under speed defensive Groudon sets(very important Groudon is the best defensive pokemon in the game)

B+
While this does have two of the best types in the game (ground and water) it’s also competing with Groudon (Groudon is a top pokemon) as your ground type
Unlike it’s mega counterpart it’s only weak to grass moves which is a very uncommon weakness

B
while it is mostly outclassed by its primal version it’s iron ball set has picked up some traction as of recently and it does let it outspeed Groudon (Groudon is a top pokemon)

C
while I didn’t entirely believe in this thing until recently it has shown its results most notably its first impression psychic terrain set which lets it take advantage of psychic terrain while being able to first impression any psychic types trying to use the terrain against it like slowbro (slowbro is a top pokemon but not as good as Groudon)

D
I’m not sure what this does yea it does outspeed and ohko the entire meta game in 1 move but it’s weak to slowbro fire blast (a top move) and takes a lot from Groudon (Groudon is a top tier pokemon) so I’m not sure what this does in practice

I have a few noms because this vr needs some changes so firstly i would like to nominate toxapex to c someone said its good as a defensive water type that absorbs toxic spikes but thats really bad because toxapex is really strong with hydro pump and belch which never miss with compound eyes and 10000000 volt thunderbolt is really strong and it can use choice band and belly drum to make its attack really high also i think simisage can be in s+ because it outspeeds groudon and with arena trap it can trap and kill it with grass moves and choice band makes it really strong and it also hits water types with grass moves and it has 10000000 volt thunderbolt to kill golisopod also blaziken has a niche and should be in b as it hits so hard with flame orb guts and it can peck groudon which really hurts and nasty plot makes it think better and get stronger pecks and inferno overdrive is a really strong move and it can counter things too also rayquaza is good enough for b+ because it can have levitate to be immune to groudons lands wrath and with iron ball it underspeeds defensive groudon and peck also really hurts and it can make its tail water to deal big damage to groudon and absorb lets it heal and 10000000 volt thunderbolt is really strong and regular slowbro is really good and should be s++ because with sap sipper its immune to simisage solar blade and its really tanky with acid armour and assualt vest and quick attack makes it move first and swallow makes it heal and dive makes it hide finally i think arceus fire should be in s++++++++++ because even though there fire is the worst type in the game with burn up its not a fire type and wonder guard with burn up makes it invincible which is very op and power herb with solar beam lets it kill groudon and hyper beam and bubble beam are really strong beam moves if this was too long for you to read look at this and add it to your vr https://pokepast.es/ebcaf13d3909af70

 

[Faux Focalors Furina]

Let's unrank blissey and chansey, they only have like 5 and 10 physical defenses respectively they would literally die to a sneeze from any physcial attacker. And also, why aren't Burn Up Wonder Guard pure fire types not in sssssssssssss+!? They literally cannot be touched LOL. S(haking) M(y) H(ead) onto this tier.

 

[Child of Night]

Hey bitches and bros and nonbinary hoes, it's me, the guy. I have decided to bless you all with my amazing team building skills and impeccable meta game knowledge as it is the first of April. I know you all have trouble laddering (unlike me) so I made a team to help you all. I'm sure you all can do well with this team even with your horrible skills because I built it. No other team could possibly compare except maybe some of my own, but I believe this is my greatest masterpiece as of yet. This should also be made the sole sample team as no other could possibly be even close to being good as mine. I expect you all to sing praises to me for the rest of time as you could never give me enough back for this team I have given you all today.

---

The team

 

[Guysmash]

Personal VR
SSS+
Groudon is the best this is undisputed one some argue that primal groudon is better but fire is the worst type in the game

A+
Kyogre has water moves to beat Groudon with (Groudon is a top pokemon)
It’s huge power water shuriken lets it do massive damage to Groudon, some say that huge power doesn’t actually boost water shuriken in gen 7, those people are wrong.

A
Slowbro has a unique offensive prowess with its stab psychic this means it can hit top threats like Groudon for neutral damage (very important Groudon is a top pokemon)
Ash greninja always run iron ball in order to under speed defensive Groudon sets(very important Groudon is the best defensive pokemon in the game)

B+
While this does have two of the best types in the game (ground and water) it’s also competing with Groudon (Groudon is a top pokemon) as your ground type
Unlike it’s mega counterpart it’s only weak to grass moves which is a very uncommon weakness

B
while it is mostly outclassed by its primal version it’s iron ball set has picked up some traction as of recently and it does let it outspeed Groudon (Groudon is a top pokemon)

C
while I didn’t entirely believe in this thing until recently it has shown its results most notably its first impression psychic terrain set which lets it take advantage of psychic terrain while being able to first impression any psychic types trying to use the terrain against it like slowbro (slowbro is a top pokemon but not as good as Groudon)

D
I’m not sure what this does yea it does outspeed and ohko the entire meta game in 1 move but it’s weak to slowbro fire blast (a top move) and takes a lot from Groudon (Groudon is a top tier pokemon) so I’m not sure what this does in practice

I totally agree with that VR except that you forgot my fav mon of the format :

First I know it has a ground type like groudon but i has also a steel type.

Why I consider steel type being the second best type (the first is ground because it’s groudon’s and groudon is a top pokemon) :
Steel resists to psychic AND bug which makes it an incredible good defensive type. It allow exca to resists the STABs from the best offensive core : with FImp and Psychic Surge + 's psychic under psychic terrain. Those 2 STABS hits neutrally Groudon (Groudon is a top pokémon).
Steel is also one of the best offensive type : it hits neutral Groudon while only water types resist it (good water types are only ). This gives exca a Smart Strike STAB (which I will refer to SStrike) very important to counter Groudon's great evasiveness (SStrike can’t miss).

Excadrill has also excellent stats. It has less Spe to underspeed groudon (groudon is the best defensive pokemon) and enough to outspeed offensive Groudon with a Scarf.
It has good Atk, nothing else to say.
It has great bulk, it's Special Bulk is almost as good as Golisopod's.

The set I use for :

Excadrill @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Shell Smash
- Smart Strike
- Bulldoze

I run min Spe to underspeed defensive Groudon and Scarf to outspeed offensive groudon after a Shell Smash.
I use contrary because intimidate sucks and I hate it.
Smart Strike to hit neutrally Groudon and Bulldoze to outspeed Greninja-Ash after Shell Smash and bulldoze.
I have only 3 moves 'cause I don’t need more.

Excadrill should be A+

 

[Guysmash]

Hey bitches and bros and nonbinary hoes, it's me, the guy. I have decided to bless you all with my amazing team building skills and impeccable meta game knowledge as it is the first of April. I know you all have trouble laddering (unlike me) so I made a team to help you all. I'm sure you all can do well with this team even with your horrible skills because I built it. No other team could possibly compare except maybe some of my own, but I believe this is my greatest masterpiece as of yet. This should also be made the sole sample team as no other could possibly be even close to being good as mine. I expect you all to sing praises to me for the rest of time as you could never give me enough back for this team I have given you all today.

---

The team

The team really looks great but after trying it a few times I struggle winning : I keep running into WG BurnUp Arceus Fire (with multitype and flame plate) and I can’t hit it, it has no weaknessessssssss :(

EDIT : ty I now can kill shedninja sturdy using poison gas, tysm

 

[Yourself]

i think this vr isn't very good and a lot of the takes are just simply wrong and i would expect better coming from a council member.

It’s huge power water shuriken lets it do massive damage to Groudon, some say that huge power doesn’t actually boost water shuriken in gen 7, those people are wrong.

while yes gyarados has stab water shjriken which when boosted by huge power is able to do massive damage to a groudon, it isn't actually a good answer. many teams carry dazzling groudon who just hard switches in with a sash and if it manages to set up you will very often just lose and regardless it is still very scary to face if you do read it being dazzling.

A
Slowbro has a unique offensive prowess with its stab psychic this means it can hit top threats like Groudon for neutral damage (very important Groudon is a top pokemon)

i am unsure why you ranked this so high. even with it's extremely high special attack of 90 and stab photon this simply can't cut it vs pdon as they can very often just tank hits and set up for free, and is just completely hard walled by prankster groudon with light screen. maybe if this mon got some form of stab that could threaten pdon it could be good but as it doesn't get this i think this mon is incredibly overrated.

C
while I didn’t entirely believe in this thing until recently it has shown its results most notably its first impression psychic terrain set which lets it take advantage of psychic terrain while being able to first impression any psychic types trying to use the terrain against it like slowbro (slowbro is a top pokemon but not as good as Groudon)

this mon has gained attention when cscl brought it to phpl finals for it's impressive psychic power, however i don't think it is worthy of being ranked. it has an intresting niche of using first impression in psychic terrain to kill photon users and do big damage with photon geyser itself, but it gets completely shut down by base groudon with a primal orb who is a top tier mon due to it's ability to turn off psy terrrain and be immune to water moves and is very underwhelming if the opp doesn't have mbro so it feels more like a mu fish that may only work in specific tour games.

ultimately i think you ranked some of the mons too high for being able to answer specific pdon sets even tho they lose too many of it's other sets and pdon sets have very specific counterplay that can't all be fit onto a team at once. because of this the dominant archretype is just using as many pdon as possible and other archetypes that only use 3 or less struggle due to not being able to answer all the pdons and i don't think ur vr reflects this very well which is why i believe it to be a bad vr.