Other Tiers ADV UUBL Discussion

[Dastardlydwarf]

My thoughts on this tier are that it is fun and with a few tiering changes could be one of the better old gen lower tiers. Everything in this list is roughly ordered until B rank.

My opinions on some Pokemon that maybe need tiering action: I think the tier has to many Pokemon that require multiple checks on one team and in its current state it can be very difficult to answer them all adequately in the teambuilder. In an ideal world I think one of the following Pokemon should go.

Raikou- I don’t have a problem with Raikou personally I think it has enough checks in the tier and while it is centralising it is not overbearing. However if you don’t have the right checks or you get unlucky you can quickly get overwhelmed, this to me is just the nature of Pokemon though.

Medicham- this is probably going to be an unpopular opinion but I think Medicham is unhealthy for the tier. Unlike raikou it is extremely good at overwhelming its own checks by itself with its coverage and I think the only thing keeping it somewhat ok is from faster offensive Pokemon however due to its good bulk and typing not many of them threaten to ohko it and it can ohko most of them in return. Because of this I think its presence in the tier is unhealthy.

 

[Invoking Azure]

Might be some hot takes in here? Roughly ordered. I'll say I personally don't think Raikou is necessarily ban worthy, definitely annoying at times because of the risk of a bad paralysis or crit turn, but not that bad. I think after reading Dastardly's post and some reflection, I could see a Medi ban? Mixed Medi is definitely underutilized when it just demolishes the otherwise best physical wall in the tier in Weezing. Very strong mon.

Re: potential bans, I think Belly Drum is not healthy for the tier. It gives Smeargle two very dangerous sets in BD + BP vs a BD sweeper/Boom set that forces an obnoxious 50/50 where you can lose the game on the spot via BP or play a risky game vs the sweeper/Boom set and potentially lose your phazer (on top of spore shenanigans) opening you up to losing to another set-up sweeper. Belly Drum makes some bad mons like Linoone a very real threat in the end game especially with Gard screens + safeguard + memento support and maybe a pursuiter. While rarer, it can also be a notable threat on Yama and Marowak.

Personally, I don't love BP chains being open especially with Mime existing, but I'm much more concerned with BD atm.

Some explanations on tiering: Spikers are good mostly bc of spikes, but Oma + Qwil add more meaningful utility (former being an okay Nite check and Qwil can T Wave somethings + Boom/DBond).

Ursaring is dumb, but I'm willing to admit that's probably bc of my bias in preferred playstyle. 130 attack is wild though with Guts and multiple viable sets.

Espeon is strong as a CM passer who can threaten a scary Psychic against most phazers.

Rose is an interesting spiker bc of Rest + Nat Cure, but also sadly frail and slow. Can sometimes work, but I feel like it's inconsistent.

 

[JoaF]

Lead Metagame: Standard Lead Options and Interactions​

UUBL had a great showing with its very active ladder paired with two separate money tours running alongside another. The many Pokemon available in the ban list allow for a lot of flexibility and team styles in the builder. One exciting aspect of the builder is deciding what Pokemon to choose as your lead.

Picking your lead in any ADV tier is of utmost importance due to the fact that the first Pokemon selected in the team builder is always lead alongside there being no team preview. So how do you go about choosing your lead in such a busy tier list? The answer to this will depend a lot on the needs of your team, but a handful of Pokemon stand notably above the rest.

1. Raikou matches up well against many of the other leads we will be mentioning today. Its bulk, speed, and special attack are enough to bully most other common leads. Raikou is bulky enough to take most hits, and hits hard enough to OHKO the common Spike leads within the tier outside of Glalie. Omastar, Qwilfish, and Smeargle all suffer from facing an OHKO, or allowing Raikou to get behind a Substitute. More often than not, a special wall like Chansey, Regice, or Registeel will be forced out to preserve these spongy leads. These factors make for a very reliable lead in Raikou when paired with Pokemon that can take hits or statuses that Kou would like to avoid.
2. Medicham with a Choice Band, Baton Pass, and a decent Speed Tier to boot, give this Pokemon the traits that make up a terrifying offensive lead. Medicham boasts over 600 attack when running Choice Band which allows it to inflict a lot of damage from lead. It can even survive a Thunderbolt from Raikou and OHKO back with Brick Break. Focus Punch and Baton Pass can both punish predicted switches and give your team momentum.
3. Qwilfish is the first utility Pokemon on this list thanks to its access to Spikes, Thunder Wave, Destiny Bond, and Explosion. Despite poor bulk, being a Water + Poison Pokemon provide Qwil great defensive typing against the other lead Spikers in Glalie, Omastar, and Smeargle. Its superior Speed compared to these three give Qwilfish the ability to bully the other Spikers. Explosions usefulness too can’t be overstated when it comes to breaking through walls like Chansey, Regice, or opposing Rapid Spinner like Tentacruel.
4. Hariyama may not be the most exciting pick, but this Pokemon is very consistent and reliable in the lead slot. Though the second Fighting-type on our list, Hariyama functions much differently thanks to its unique ability and access to Knock Off + Whirlwind. Turn 1 Knock Off is often a free click that can disrupt your opponent quickly. Hariyama has the bulk to survive any hit from even the strongest Choice Banded attacks from Medicham and attack back or even remove its item with Knock Off. It’s ability Guts also allow Hariyama to function as a reliable status switch in.
5. Though UU, Omastar is another strong Spike setter on the list. For what Omastar lacks in utility moves like Qwilfish, it makes up for with its better bulk and offense. Spikes up can be the difference between a smooth victory or a tough battle ahead. Omastar’s job isn’t done once it gets a Spike up however. It also serves as a great Normal-resist and as a potential wincon through Rain Dance + Swift Swim. However, just like Qwilfish Omastar does not want to see Raikou in the lead slot.
6. Espeon is the fastest and most reliable Calm Mind passer in the tier. On Special Offense teams, it can quickly start snowballing and become a hard threat to take down. Espeon’s speed is another great advantage that help the cat take advantage of Baton Pass as much as possible. It’s also nothing to scoff at offensively especially in the lead slot where Medicham and Qwilfish are so common.
7. We couldn’t have a lead discussion without mentioning the beagle. What is there to say? Smeargle wants to claim free turns through Spore and lay down Spikes or pass stats often in the form of a Belly Drum, Dragon Dance, or Tail Glow. But you really never know what moves Smeargle is running for certain which is what makes it such a powerful lead. However, it’s tragic flaws are being a bit too frail and despite decent Speed, it is outsped by leads that can OHKO it or take advantage of its common lack of attacking moves.
8. Tauros plays similarly to Medicham but in the lead slot, but actually gets some added benefits with its access to immediately threatening and powerful STAB in Double Edge, alongside being in a much better Speed tier. Despite its great strengths, it is usually better used in a position where it can clean up towards end game, or help break through specific targets. Well built defensive teams can force Tauros to have to make risky predicts between Double Edge and Earthquake. Once you add Protect, and a levitating Ghost to the mix, Tauros struggles even harder.
9. Glalie is maybe the most controversial pick. It isn’t a UUBL, not even UU. No it is NU, but that said, this Pokemon transcends tiers, even seeing time in OU. It does many things great. Glalie can outspeed and taunt most other Spikers other than Qwilfish. It speed-ties Dragonite and can OHKO with Ice Beam. It can set up its own Hazards, run Hidden Power Grass for Omastar, run Explosion as a catch all, or for offensive momentum. With decent Speed and bulk, Glalie will rarely fail to make at least some impact as a lead.

ADVBL offers some really fun and unique interactions in the lead slot that all start in the team builder. With a strong team to support them, any of these 9 leads can make progress towards winning in battle. While I only mentioned these nine, there are many other solid options that could go in the lead slot. Some honorable mentions include Donphan, Dragonite, Houndoom, Jynx, Lanturn, and Venusaur. Often these more niche options can be more effective and give you an edge on surprise factor alone. The nine listed above are all leads I believe are standard and could easily be understood and used by most new players. Hope this sparks some interesting conversation on what less standards leads others like to use.

 

[Just_Leonardo]

Lead Metagame: Standard Lead Options and Interactions​

UUBL had a great showing with its very active ladder paired with two separate money tours running alongside another. The many Pokemon available in the ban list allow for a lot of flexibility and team styles in the builder. One exciting aspect of the builder is deciding what Pokemon to choose as your lead.

Picking your lead in any ADV tier is of utmost importance due to the fact that the first Pokemon selected in the team builder is always lead alongside there being no team preview. So how do you go about choosing your lead in such a busy tier list? The answer to this will depend a lot on the needs of your team, but a handful of Pokemon stand notably above the rest.

1. Raikou matches up well against many of the other leads we will be mentioning today. Its bulk, speed, and special attack are enough to bully most other common leads. Raikou is bulky enough to take most hits, and hits hard enough to OHKO the common Spike leads within the tier outside of Glalie. Omastar, Qwilfish, and Smeargle all suffer from facing an OHKO, or allowing Raikou to get behind a Substitute. More often than not, a special wall like Chansey, Regice, or Registeel will be forced out to preserve these spongy leads. These factors make for a very reliable lead in Raikou when paired with Pokemon that can take hits or statuses that Kou would like to avoid.
2. Medicham with a Choice Band, Baton Pass, and a decent Speed Tier to boot, give this Pokemon the traits that make up a terrifying offensive lead. Medicham boasts over 600 attack when running Choice Band which allows it to inflict a lot of damage from lead. It can even survive a Thunderbolt from Raikou and OHKO back with Brick Break. Focus Punch and Baton Pass can both punish predicted switches and give your team momentum.
3. Qwilfish is the first utility Pokemon on this list thanks to its access to Spikes, Thunder Wave, Destiny Bond, and Explosion. Despite poor bulk, being a Water + Poison Pokemon provide Qwil great defensive typing against the other lead Spikers in Glalie, Omastar, and Smeargle. Its superior Speed compared to these three give Qwilfish the ability to bully the other Spikers. Explosions usefulness too can’t be overstated when it comes to breaking through walls like Chansey, Regice, or opposing Rapid Spinner like Tentacruel.
4. Hariyama may not be the most exciting pick, but this Pokemon is very consistent and reliable in the lead slot. Though the second Fighting-type on our list, Hariyama functions much differently thanks to its unique ability and access to Knock Off + Whirlwind. Turn 1 Knock Off is often a free click that can disrupt your opponent quickly. Hariyama has the bulk to survive any hit from even the strongest Choice Banded attacks from Medicham and attack back or even remove its item with Knock Off. It’s ability Guts also allow Hariyama to function as a reliable status switch in.
5. Though UU, Omastar is another strong Spike setter on the list. For what Omastar lacks in utility moves like Qwilfish, it makes up for with its better bulk and offense. Spikes up can be the difference between a smooth victory or a tough battle ahead. Omastar’s job isn’t done once it gets a Spike up however. It also serves as a great Normal-resist and as a potential wincon through Rain Dance + Swift Swim. However, just like Qwilfish Omastar does not want to see Raikou in the lead slot.
6. Espeon is the fastest and most reliable Calm Mind passer in the tier. On Special Offense teams, it can quickly start snowballing and become a hard threat to take down. Espeon’s speed is another great advantage that help the cat take advantage of Baton Pass as much as possible. It’s also nothing to scoff at offensively especially in the lead slot where Medicham and Qwilfish are so common.
7. We couldn’t have a lead discussion without mentioning the beagle. What is there to say? Smeargle wants to claim free turns through Spore and lay down Spikes or pass stats often in the form of a Belly Drum, Dragon Dance, or Tail Glow. But you really never know what moves Smeargle is running for certain which is what makes it such a powerful lead. However, it’s tragic flaws are being a bit too frail and despite decent Speed, it is outsped by leads that can OHKO it or take advantage of its common lack of attacking moves.
8. Tauros plays similarly to Medicham but in the lead slot, but actually gets some added benefits with its access to immediately threatening and powerful STAB in Double Edge, alongside being in a much better Speed tier. Despite its great strengths, it is usually better used in a position where it can clean up towards end game, or help break through specific targets. Well built defensive teams can force Tauros to have to make risky predicts between Double Edge and Earthquake. Once you add Protect, and a levitating Ghost to the mix, Tauros struggles even harder.
9. Glalie is maybe the most controversial pick. It isn’t a UUBL, not even UU. No it is NU, but that said, this Pokemon transcends tiers, even seeing time in OU. It does many things great. Glalie can outspeed and taunt most other Spikers other than Qwilfish. It speed-ties Dragonite and can OHKO with Ice Beam. It can set up its own Hazards, run Hidden Power Grass for Omastar, run Explosion as a catch all, or for offensive momentum. With decent Speed and bulk, Glalie will rarely fail to make at least some impact as a lead.

ADVBL offers some really fun and unique interactions in the lead slot that all start in the team builder. With a strong team to support them, any of these 9 leads can make progress towards winning in battle. While I only mentioned these nine, there are many other solid options that could go in the lead slot. Some honorable mentions include Donphan, Dragonite, Houndoom, Jynx and Lanturn. Often these more niche options can be more effective and give you an edge on surprise factor alone. The nine listed above are all leads I believe are standard and could easily be understood and used by most new players. Hope this sparks some interesting conversation on what less standards leads others like to use.

Donphan truethers where you at?

Qwilfish who? Catch this earthquake fool

 

[THE_CHUNGLER]

Here’s my first attempt at a UUBL tier list! God, this tier has so many fuckin mons to choose from. I really can’t say I’ve used most of these, and as such have to speculate based on my experience playing against them and watching replays from the recent discord tour. Honestly I didn’t build most of my teams for the tour, relying heavily on Melninja for support and input, so my VR will definitely be colored by the teams he built and what we built together.

I stopped ordering pokemon within tiers at around the end of B rank, I think at that point the placements are so close that I can’t make a definitive claim on what’s better or worse within a few spots.



Raikou: At first when I started using the tiger during the ladder tour, I was a bit whelmed by sub cm. Everyone has to overprep for it so it was hard to consistently break with. What really unlocked the S tier potential for this mon was when I started messing around with other moves. Cm+roar is an absolute menace with spikes that makes very safe progress. Status raikou with toxic or twave has become my new favorite, with incredible flexibility for its 4th move. Raikou is a great fit on bulky teams that need some strong speed control to revenge mid speed breakers like houndoom, medicham, and need another option vs opposing raikou. With the right move, raikou can help check itself which is a bit of defensive utility that makes it very easy to fit on teams.



Dragonite: Can very reasonably be argued as #1, it’s a bit more splashable than raikou because of its better resistances to fighting, ground, and fire. It’s 4x ice weakness can cause it to get sniped at times, most of the time by itself running ice beam, but even then it can live some of these hits when ev’d properly. Heal bell is amazing utility that is probably the #2 reason it finds itself on over 3/4 of all teams. It’s not a particularly great solo heal bell user on bulkier teams imo, but it still enables a lot of builds. I think I ended up liking dnite more when, similarly to raikou, I didn’t try to shove dd, heal bell, or both on every team.


Registeel: Mr. Steel clocking in for another a+ vr ranking in yet another tier, what’s new. Best steel type in the tier, and as such an amazing glue for bulky or more offensive teams.m depending on your set. I think you usually end up taking the Rest or Boom route with regi depending on the type of team you’re using, and curse sets appreciating either move. Mel put me onto amnesia registeel recently, which is actually super good even beyond being safer into raikou. Once I saw it 1v1 a houndoom at less than full, I knew regi was the goat. I don’t have it in S rank because I think it doesn’t mold the meta as much as the top 2, but it’s very close.


Slowbro: Not only does this mon check some absolutely game ending breakers, but it’s also maybe the best setup in the entire tier. It’s super easy to start trading with Bro once it hits +1, allowing it to eat a hit and ohko houndoom or start chipping down regice before switching out to finish the job later. Rest or twave are both great complimentary last moves, again sort of depending on your team’s game plan. If you want the paralysis support, there really isn’t anything that denies slowbro from doing so besides chansey. Slowbro is #4 because it’s typing is so so important to glue together a lot of teams that stack multiple ground and fighting weaks, giving the team playable matchups into rhydon and Marowak.


Weezing: I think of its typing as pretty similar to Slowbro, and therefore it provides similar glue to teams. Ground immunity, a fighting resist, and no weakness to any physical attacking type. Weezing with only wisp and sludge bomb is somewhat abusable, namely by substitute grounds, Heal bell Dnite, and Omastar, but these can both be alleviated with the right hidden power as coverage. Weezing, like slowbro, is the lynchpin of so many defensive teams because of its ability to blanket check so many physical attackers. It's also spikes immune meaning it's easy to fit on teams that don't pack rapid spin and remains healthy even vs spikes teams with spinblockers. Removing Weezing is no small task for even a pursuit user like houndoom, who is 2hko'd by sludge bomb.

Boom is likely a bit underexplored on offensive teams, as it allows Weezing to drop pain split and pivot to being an offensive force and momentum grabber.


Omastar: Spiker with a good defensive and offensive profile. Omastar is the first UU mon on this list because it plays well into the metagame right now, spiking on Dnite, Weezing, Registeel, , Steelix, and Chansey. That's me only pulling from the S and A rank mons on my list btw. Omastar has many more entry points beyond these meta staples. It's typing can be abused by hidden power, but that slot is often occupied by HP Ice for pokemon like Entei and Houndoom. Maybe it can be abused more and thus will end up lower as time goes on, or maybe it will creep higher as people start to rely more on spikes. It's speed tier is good enough to outpace base 50s, which can help pop up another spike vs Regice and Chansey.


Medicham: Great lead, CB provides crucial priority, and is strong enough that it can be the sole breaker on more defensive teams. Also a great engine for starting offense as it can scout switches with baton pass or substitute to ease prediction. I have personally used more cb because I think the immediate threat is so good and I love having even mediocre priority, but lum berry, leftovers, or pinch berries work in different roles.


Chansey: Honestly with no permenant sand + the lower power level of UUBL, chansey feels like it has OU Blissey's bulk. Less set variety of course since it can't use any special attacks besides maybe Ice beam viably, but even the status+seismic toss sets can provide enough threat to force pokemon out. I feel like its a lot easier to fit Aromatherapy in UUBL than on Blissey in OU because Chansey doesn't have to worry about being dug trapped. She's one of my favorite blobs to use in any tier I've played. Can be abused by pokemon with 101 sub like Rhydon and Entei, or setup sweepers like Scizor and dnite who don't mind status as much.


Houndoom: Very strong breaker with good speed tier vs a lot of common wall breakers. It's by far the best user of pursuit and has tools to threaten all the physical walls in the tier. If you thought Blissey hated beat up, I shouldn't have to explain why Chansey is terrified of it. Doom also has a very consistent dual stab in Crunch with great coverage compared to other fires, so it doesn't have to rely on hidden power to hit its targets and can afford to fit the aforementioned beat up with pursuit. It also slams the other two fat special walls with its fire STAB. Will-o-wisp also gives houndoom an offensive and defensive weapon if the team doesn't particularly care about Chansey. Enables defensive teams that rely on spin or bulky offense teams that want to trap Weezing.


Vaporeon: Pretty sure Vap used to be in the top 3 on the VR, and for good reason. The stats are just massive, offensively and defensively, and its mono-water typing makes it pretty hard to exploit. Just a classic bulky water that provides different utility compared to Omastar or Blastoise. Wish is pretty hard to come by so that's great, but one of my favorite uses for Vap is passing 101 substitutes like it can in OU, except this time I'm not even sure if Chansey could break a sub with tbolt even if it wanted to. Toxic, roar, haze, and ice beam can all be important depending on the team its used with. Poor Raikou matchup but its not like, instantly exploding to tbolt like most waters so it gets a bit of a pass. Amazing but sometimes you want a different water's utility, though it can definitely fit on teams with 2 of them.


Regice: Special wall that's very hard to switch into without Chansey, twave with Ice beam is just not blockable otherwise. I might be lower on it than other but I think the toxic and spikes weaknesses are definitely notable. It's also weak to fire which means you probably need a backup vs them. Not a ridiculous ask but you can't just start throwing Regice on a team without considering it. I personally don't use the psych up sets and just try to build around raikou differently, but sometimes you just gotta do it. Clicking STAB ice beam is a top 5 feeling in mons so I will always like this guy.


Blastoise: I orginally had toise even higher, but I do think that was a bitttt much. Not that much though, for the same reasons Vaporeon's mono water typing is good, it works about the same for turtle. Good stats means its able to take 1 hit from basically everythingand do something back, even if thats just removing spikes for its teammates. Very strapped for move slots but all of its options are good. Spins on omastar pretty easily just like in UU, and instead of Kanga it's letting in Chansey, which is a lot more manageable. Toxic, ice beam, refresh, earthquake, roar are all good choices. The speed tier is better than Vaporeon, which means toise is a better check to the strong ground types named Marowak and Rhydon compared to Vap and Slowbro.


Steelix: Steel type that checks raikou with its typing rather than raw bulk. I'm debating moving Steelix down, because in a lot of ways it's a worse Registeel. its slower and way weaker to waters, or just special attackers in general. On the plus side, STAB eq is good for getting meaningful damage on switch ins like Omastar, and the physical bulk does let Lix check physical attackers better, so it does have a niche. Lix trades curse for roar, so it can phase threatening setup sweepers like scizor or dnite before they get out of hand.


Qwilfish: Fastest spiker and has twave to threaten out different targets than Omastar, Qwil is great on offense and the speed makes it a solid lead. Has to be careful of lead EQs targeted at Raikou, though. Boom also gives it something to do basically every turn it gets to move. Maybe it should be lower, but I don't think viable spikers should really go below A tier.


Glalie is back for a 4th appearence in an adv lower tier VR, because this fat fuck won't leave any of us alone. Yes, its typing gives it something unique over Qwil and Omastar, letting it stay in on raikou, and has eq to break its sub. Ice ground coverage is also pretty good vs Tentacruel and Donphan, while being faster than blastoise and Hitmontop to let boom rip whenever it needs to deny spin. Max HP Glalie can also take 1 boosted move and KO Dnite with Ice beam, letting it save boom for a slower target after.

Keeping it short for some of my favorite B ranks:


Sd Morning Sun Steel Wing HP Ground is such a good bulky wincon, have been destroyed by it many times.


101 subs, Fire type that beats Chansey with good speed and bulk.


101 subs, Edgequake with SD (or roar) kills everything and abuses Weezing without HP ice/grass.


Curse/Heal Bell/Milk Drink/Body Slam. less passive Chansey with better physical bulk and speed. Thick fat is great in this tier.

 

[Melninja]

Hitmontop propaganda is working.
I'll post my updated VR soon

 

[Melninja]

Now that the UUBL tours have ended, I think it's time for me to share my thoughts on the VR. Tho I didn't win anything, I'm very happy with what I built for THE_CHUNGLER & how I could help them in their run. They played incredibly well & my teams were just a mean to showcase it.

Anyway :

Raikou is the best mon in the tier, no debate, I hate it in this tier, pls ban it,...
More seriously, this mon is truly broken. There is no true counter to Raikou & you can be sure it will be troublesome to your team. Tho I find it a bit easier to handle the more I play, but it's also cause I play 1 or 2 "hard" kou check in every team (cause you're forced to), but yeah this kinda sucks that it forces team slots so hard.
Kou's strongest sets truly are the ones that are not Tbolt/Sub/CM/Random HP, the strongest truly are Roar & Toxic variant that can take advantage of how bad Spinners are in this tier or that can force Chansey to not use Toss, which means almost guaranteed crit (which means free W). Also if you win the roar roll on oppo Kou you win the game.
EDIT : Roar is the best Kou coverage, because if you face Kou wall, you can roar it out. Then you have 80% to 100% chance to have smth that doesn't check you (depending on the team). Which means you either get a kill or force out the Kou check, either damaging it on the switch or boosting. You make progress anyway, & you'll never get roared out cause you're faster than everything. They can try to switch out so they can get the better odds to get their check in, but it's giving a 50/50 to Raikou (don't do that) & you lose momentum for nothing + spikes probably up + ff you face Kou, just bring Chansey + Steelix/Registeel.
It's not as versatile as Dnite in the builder, but it's way stronger than anything else in the tier with only 4ish different 4th move variants. (also easy to build around)

Everybody loves Dnite. Easy to build around, fun to build & tweak to your likings, good af & most importantly not so hard to check (4x weak to ice), which makes it way healthier than the dog above.
Of course DDnite is very strong & can easily get out of hands if you don't do anything quickly. Flying + Ground coverage is insane & it's also helped a lot by the access to Ice Beam just to be sure Donphan can never be a Dnite check (and top tier).
Dnite also gets access to cool secondary coverage in case you don't want to run Ddance & prefer more balanced set like me. Fpunch is incredible into Regice, Oma & other stuff & Thunder is also very good to hit bulky waters that loves coming in.
The mon also gets utility like Heal Bell, Twave, Toxic, Roar, Haze,... if you need. Heal bell comes in the more often & it's rly good if you wanna run Wish Chansey for example.
Anyway love that guy, my Anti Dnite Dnite is my fav set.

Registeel versatility & incredible defensive potential is what makes it so good. You can lead with it, with things like twave, boom, counter, eq,...
You can curse sweep (tho it is not so good now). You can run some madman defensive set with Amnesia to be able to win vs Kou & Zam. Some good Rest heal can fit very well with heal Bell support. You can do what you want with it, tho its strength mostly comes from how it can check Kou thx to Toss/Eq. Love it.


Medi does too much dmg, only true check is weezing. Para flinch it & you win. Thankfully Dnite is in most teams to tank a hit or two & OHKO it.
This is my fav lead in this tier, good enough speed to OHKO most spikers & Fake Out can chip things or disable Slaking, while checking for lefties T1. Access to Sball makes it able to ruin Slowbro's life once it clicks rest.
TLDR dmg too big, can't check it indefinitely.

This is the mon who makes so many things thrash (hello crobat). Wisp / haze makes it a very good Curse/slow SD disabler. Typing & stats helps to check most physical threats (mostly Fighting types). You can custom it with Hp Ice if you need help vs Dnite or if you fear Sub Rhydon.
Just extremely solid.

I'm the biggest Chansey spammer. Heal bell is very good. Also it's just the most consistent Kou check, until you get crit'd (at least 1/2games). Also checks so much things. Twave is incredible, you can run Toxic if you hate Donphan & Rhydon. If regice doesn't run boom, it's free. Heal Bell is ultra strong, you can also run Wish instead if you have another Heal Bell & need to give some support to Blastoise or smth.

Love that bro. CM rest. This is good cause it checks Weezing & other bulky waters. Also you don't get OHKO'd by anything. Only problems are free Kou entry points, Chansey & Psych Up Regice. You can run Twave instead of Surf if you want to para spam, Fpunch can help vs Chansey/Regice Switch ins, but it's not that good.
Just play CM Bro everywhere, it's fun & good, I promise.

Dnite Check, Dodrio/Tauros check, Best Spiker. Crit immune is cool. Cause of this thing my boy Tauros is not so good. Pairs perfectly with things like Weezing & Chansey.

Kinda Kou check. Checks Dnites unless it's Fpunch (they should play it). Checks the water mons thx to Tbolt. You can rest for Status heal. Boom is cool. You can also play Psych Up if you hate Slowbro & Kou & wants to lose to chansey. I just prefer running Chansey/Registeel, but it's good.

Thick fat is nice for Houndoom & Regice. Very cool lead thx to hp & movepool. Knock off is a free click that makes Weezing/Slowbro easier to handle. EQ for Kou. You can also get more utility with Whirlwhind, ResTalk, Counter,...
Play it on stall, on balanced, even on offense. It will always do smth. Tho I prefer Medicham as a fighting type cause unchecked, raw, faster dmg is often better.

Bulky water that checks Dnite & Wish pass. Free Slowbro set up. Toxic forces rest on stuff tho.

Very good Offensive spiker. Dbond can trade with Slowbro that's forced to come in. Boom can also trade with stuff. Twave is incredible support for a spiker lead, mostly on offense. Doesn't get OHKO'd by Medi, & it's faster, also poison point scare them from clicking Fake Out. You can also play CB.

CM + Synchronize. You can Encore sometimes.


Sub SD is so good lmao. Toss immuned, faster than most defensive mons, beats non Hp Ice Weezing. Gets some easy wins on some MU. Extremely good to switch into Chansey (unless they run Toxic)Also CB can be good.

Steelix stocks are rising thx to 90% of HP on Kou being Ice. Nobody runs Water. OK Normal Check. Roar abuser. Forces out set up sweepers.

Tentacruel is the best Spinner (which means how bad spinners are) It's the best cause it's not fucked vs popular Spikers. Non water weak Spiker is so important & having a Toxic immunity helps so much. Also Speed tier. It comes into Houdoom thx to great SpDef. Can get support moves like Toxic, Haze, Screens,...
Also you can try some SD sets.

SD + Guts, easy switch in on defensive stuff & can do some cool sweeps thx to it's bulk. Sometimes it surprises Kou & Dnte & take some good kills with EQ/Return. Easy holes in teams, like coming into Toxic Chansey. Best Normal attacker.

Blastoise. I think it's currently the 2nd best Spinner cause of things stated above for Tenta : It doesn't suck vs the 2 main Spikers.
Water resist is so important & it's also an actual soft Dnite check thx to Bulk & Ice beam.
Access to Refresh makes it easily viable vs defensive mons that rely too much on status. EQ being available is so good for Kou switch ins & to help threaten Qwil & Tenta who think they are free. You can also run Foresight shenanigans for funny spin on Ghosts.
Unfortunately it heavily relies on Wish support to work at it's full potential, but some teams can run it without, but needs to play very good/careful.


Gonna End with Hitmontop, probably the strangest choice of the list, but I think it's coherent.Hitmontop Niche is sooooo good. It's a Spinner with intimidate & a PRIORITY MOVE. Priority moves are ultra rare in this tier. The most common one is Medi's Fake Out, but it's not so good cause it's always banded. STAB Mach Punch is very important, so you can apply pressure on around 1/4 hp fast threats. Also intim makes it a good lead. It puts you out of Kill Range from things like Medi, that you can kill instead with your CB Hp Ghost. Also you get the very important EQ, that will OHKO Kou lead.
Hitmontop is the role compression of your lead Fighting type with Spin, but that also wins a lot of very important lead MU for some reason.

That's it for now, I think the rest is pretty usual. If you need me to explain some specific postion of mons, or what's my opinion on some stuff, don't hesitate. I'll surely drop some of my fav teams here at some point. Some of them can prob be Sample candidate.
I love Entei, it's Healthy Kou that beats Toss.

 

[JoaF]

ADV UUBL has a lot of Pokemon, which has made making this list both really fun, and really tiring. That said I won't discuss anything beyond A to keep it brief. First off, what are my qualifications to even speak UUBL's VR? My tournament accolades are nonexistent but during my time with ladder, I managed to top 10/15 with multiple accounts, and even qualify for the ADV BL Ladder Tournament. I've built multiple sample teams for this tier and have helped others with their own team building and testing across a number of ADV tiers. And with that out of the way, it is no surprise which two Pokemon top the chart.

S+:

When this legendary enters the field you know exactly what it wants to do. And you will switch in your Special Wall Chansey or Regice thinking you have things under control. Then suddenly you notice your Raikou answers aren't so healthy anymore, three layers of Spikes are scattered across the floor, and Raikou just clicked Calm Mind on the switch and it's game over. Then remind yourself that this beast has a 90 / 75 / 100 split between it's defensive stats with 115 Speed making it far and away the bulkiest Pokemon in its speed tier.
Despite being overshadowed by Salamence in OU, Dragonite is no slouch and could be argued over Raikou for the versatility it offers. Dragonite may be running a Dragon Dance Sweeper, a Cleric, a Mixed Attacker, a Substitute Focus Punch Mixed Attacking set, or even a Choice Band. In the right position, a single Dragon Dance can sometimes mean the game is won. Dragonite can fit nicely on many teams thanks to it's great stats and roles it can fill. This is a stark contrast from Raikou where the main decision is typically between Roar or Substitute.

S:

Choice Band + Pure Power = Profit. This breaks through everything. It may struggle to deal with some well structured defensive cores with smart positioning, but this solution is temporary if Medi can either make the right click, or through support of it's team, be able to click whatever move it wants. Once the Ghost-type, or Fighter-resist are eliminated, the world opens up for Medicham. As good as Choice Band is, Medicham has the added benefit of being able to run a Salac Berry set, as well as a mixed set with Psychic to hit Weezing. Fake Out is another unique priority move in a tier where it is not very common amongst top threats.
Registeel is the defensive glue to many UUBL teams. For some, it is even the primary answer to Raikou in a tier that often demands more than one answer in the team builder. Registeel can get in the way of so many things that wish to cause progress and avoid status. Threats like Medicham desperately want to avoid a Thunder Wave as do the Fire-types that would also like to threaten Registeel. And if you fail to eliminate Registeel effectively, you better hope it doesn't have Rest to undo all of the progress you thought you made. As a result, Registeel can force your opponent to overthink and force their own misplays. With options like Curse + 2 Attacks, Restalk, Status + Seismic Toss, it always has a consistent way to make progress against much of the tier.
Weezing does so much as a defensive backbone in UUBL. With utility options like Pain Split, Will O' Wisp, and Haze, Weezing has an option for all types of opposing setup sweepers. More offensive sets can even run coverage moves to cover a variety of weaknesses. For example Hidden Power Ice to cover Dragonite, and Flamethrower to cover Scizor. Levitate to never have to worry about Spikes damage, and having great bulk and solid resists plus immunities make Weezing a very solid option on most teams.
While Chansey is a very simple Pokemon in terms of how it works, it doesn't need to be anything more. It can function as a Cleric through either Wish OR Heal Bell, that can spread Thunder Wave or Toxic status and hit most things for decent chip damage with Seismic Toss. More importantly than all of this, Chansey functions as one of the best defensive pivots in the tier by being able to take the brunt of special attacks and shed off status through Natural Cure.

A+:

The Pokemon in the A+ class have little to no drawback to using. All options listed possess excellent qualities both offensively and defensively that are expressed in battle consistently. Additionally, the Pokemon in this class can fit on many team styles without needing to cheat on certain matchups.

A:

Class A is most aligned with my thoughts on Class A+, however with more restrictions. Pokemon in this class are less splashable, and may lead to unintended weaknesses in unexpected areas. For example, Kingdra might feel like dead weight against a team that is really well equipped to deal with rain. On top of that you're team was designed to support a Rain Dance sweeper in Kingdra. This dynamic leads to the Pokemon in this class being generally less consistent than those ranked above them.

To wrap it up, I think ADV UUBL is an incredible banlist tier but with the vast number of Pokemon, doing a ranking like this is extremely hard. I think to get a more accurate reading on the "pulse" of this meta, I would like to see an aggregate of the varying opinions of other players and finalizing this VR through some group of qualified voters. Hopefully with this, we can establish the most current VR possible before the start of ADVLTL I.

 

[Teh]

Hey folks, we've just released a survey for everyone to take! Feel free to share your thoughts, even if you only have a limited experience with the tier. The results of the poll will be posted here afterwards and they may lead to tiering action.
https://forms.gle/NF9ueVzDGqnMGTeL7

 

[Wenderz]

Hello,

Thanks to the efforts of people like Teh and mason who granted us a ladder (which saw over 21 000 games played and a few more when it was still up in early April) and both forum and Discord tournaments, we had a massive surge in activity and interest in UUBL, as further shown by the recent wave of VR post in this thread! Thanks to everyone involved, and congratulations to the tournaments winners!

A couple more thanks to those who filled the survey shared in the above post. Here are the results:

On a scale from 1 to 5, how much do you enjoy the tier ?

The overall reception of the tier currently is very positive, with the majority of voters labeling it as a fun metagame.

On a scale from 1 to 5, how "competitive" do you think the tier is ?

While not as pronounced as the fun aspect, the majority of the playerbase also seems to think that the tier has decent competitive potential, which is pretty encouraging when it comes to the future of UUBL in tournaments.

Would you like to see ADV UUBL made into an official metagame in the future ? This could mean that the tier becomes frozen (can't lose or gain Pokemon to/from OU anymore, as well as losing Raikou, Regice, and Porygon2), featured in more official tournaments, but also that future rulesets would have to go through the usual Smogon bureaucracy (meaning, current ruleset an possibilities might have to change depending on what the tiering council enforces).

This is a matter that is effectively being discussed in this policy review thread at the moment. This one is slightly more divisive as the looming loss of key Pokemon and perhaps clauses due to more strict policies compared to RBY tiering (unless that changes in the future) makes some players relunctant of fusing with UU (which is what becoming an official metagame having a spot in offical smogon team tournaments would entail). Nonetheless, the majority would still like to see UUBL establish itself as an official metagame, which presumably would translate to becoming the new ADV UU, minus a couple of Pokemon and once again some clauses, assuming ADV UU ruleset remains unchanged post the hypothetical nuclear UUBL drop.

Is there any Pokemon you think is unhealthy or banworthy in the current metagame ?

Some players have voiced some complains on strong Pokemon like Raikou and Medicham, be it on this thread or in Discord forums. However, neither are close to reaching a majority of pro-ban opinion at the moment, so any tiering action on them is unlikely to happen, but as the metagame develops and gets more tournament traction and, perhaps eventually, a form of suspect test (JoaF suggested running a tour, maybe room tours, to test a no Raikou meta for instance), maybe they'll get the boot one day. Another ban detailed in the "Other" category that has been suggested is the move Belly Drum, specifically on Smeargle (which can use it alongside Baton Pass) and Linoone, which could be worth discussing in the future if the sentiment grows over time. One person nominated Dragonite, and a couple of other thought Baton Pass was deserving of a ban. Speaking of which...

Do you think further action is needed or desirable on Baton Pass ? Reminder: the current one restricts all manners of Speed pass (except moves like Silver Wind and Ancient Power alongside Baton Pass), Trap Pass (Mean Look/Spider Web/Block + Baton Pass), Smeargle + Ingrain, and allows only one form of stat boosting across the whole team.

What would be the ideal Baton Pass set of clauses for ADV UUBL ?

Lumping these two questions together as they tell the same tale: the wide majority of the playerbase is fine with the current ruleset, so once again, unless there's a different consensus or some sort of restrictions enforced because the metagame ends up becoming official forcing a compromise on the playerbase, the BP set of clauses is unlikely to change anytime soon. There is still some support for Dry Pass only, and a couple of players in the "Other" category who asked for a ban on Mr.Mime, on Silver Wind and Ancient Power alongside Baton Pass, and a single voice for applying OU ruleset instead (which notably frees up Speed pass).

What's your opinion on Reversal and Flail ban ?

Again, no changes planned on the subject of Flail and Reversal seeing that the overwhelming majority wants to keep those moves banned.

What's your preferred manner to refer to the tier ? (Aside from ADV UU)

As long as it remains unofficial, our tier will still go by the name of ADV UUBL.

Again, thanks to everyone who took part in the survey and left positive feedback on the tier. You can expect a Viability Ranking update with ADVLTL on the horizon and everyone who submitted their own ranking. On the subject, here's mine as of now (ordered within tier, less sure within the B ranks and below):

 

[Teh]

Medicham has risen to OU and will therefore no longer be legal in UUBL matches! Rest in peace funny monkey, you broke walls to an extent that was at least a little broken (but you'll be missed regardless.)

I think this is an overall positive change for the metagame though. Mainly, I think Medicham leaving will make it easier to defensively answer Raikou since a lot of the mons that do well into it (Chansey, Regice/steel, Steelix, Lanturn) get absolutely nuked by Medicham. There are still plenty of Fighting-type wallbreakers too, they just happen to be weaker initially and have a less oppressive speed tier.

Quick buffs/nerfs:

Buffs

• Dragonite appreciates having the 80 speed tier be less crowded and it makes not running max speed less dangerous.
• Weezing was Medicham's best defensive answer but I'd still say it's better here since it does better into every other Fighting-type (bar Blaziken) and doesn't have to worry about being nuked by Mixedcham.
• All other Fighting-types (Yama, Machamp, Blaziken) get better here since the most splashable Fighter is gone.
• Venusaur can now run specially-defensive sets much more easily now.
• I think Offense teams are just overall better now since Medicham was extremely strong into them, even if Medicham was also an Offense staple.

Nerfs

• Stall teams probably take a hit here, since most Medicham sets were prone to getting chipped down and needed to get value ASAP against defensive teams. Yama with Knock Off and Machamp with Guts and Bulk Up fare much better against slower teams and have much more longevity.
• Regice and Fire-types don't appreciate Yama with Thick Fat being more relevant.
• Raikou probably takes a hit here as well since it should be easier to slot in defensive checks for Raikou without having to commit to a full stall or semi-stall team.

That's all from me! Make sure to join the ADV UUBL Discord for live discussions and practice games if you're interested in seeing how the meta will shake up with a top mon gone.