Resource Monotype Viability Rankings [July 2025]

[pikachu<3]

Hi I've been laddering with ice, outpeaking all the other ice mains with Ice Stall and I'd like to bring a fresh perspective to ice.

Avalugg: C>A

Avalugg is dead weight surprisingly often, being borderline useless in the Dragon, Fairy, Fire, Ghost, Steel, Normal, Grass, and Sableye Dark matchups due to its inability to do anything to Ghost types. This means it's dead weight against around half the types in the game, this is not a good thing!

Yet Avalugg offers hazard removal and is a fantastic asset in the Fighting and Rock matchups, acting as a solid win condition when the limited amount of special attackers these types have are gone. It also prevents Ice from getting swept by CB scizor. It does this without requiring any support, and should be Ice's default hazard removal option. If you want to climb with Ice, the fighting matchup is super popular and important (and Ice has too many autolosses already); in addition it's ice's only hazard removal option that doesn't require Icy rock support.

Overall an A rank fits this mon the best, showing it's the best default hazard removal option despite its rather serious flaws on a type desperate for hazard removal.

Alola Sandslash: B>C

It's a spinner that attempts not to get spinblocked due to having actual speed and offensive stats; in addition to this it also acts as speed control, which Ice doesn't have many options for. What's not to love?

Unfortunately, it also requires a bit of support to really reach its full potential. It basically forces Ninetails-alola to run Icy rock, nerfing it's screens for the rest of the team. In addition, it's also kind of weak; the dexset of Iron head/eq/knock/spin isn't strong enough to not be setup bait for things like Volcarona, Dragonite, bulky Twave Gholdengo (who also spinblocks it...); in addition, it's not quite fast enough to outspeed things you'd really like such as +2 Ceruledge, +1 Battle Bond Greninja and +2 Iron crown.

Overall this mon is a medicore mon as both a speed control and removal option, and nerfs your screens in order to function. I think C rank is a good place for this; I don't believe this belongs with other B ranks like Froslass and Cloyster, who are more self-sufficient.

Cetitan: A>B

Cetitan is a one-trick pony that also requires a bit of support to really reach its full potential. It basically forces Ninetails-alola to run Icy rock, nerfing it's screens for the rest of the team. It actually requires more support than Snowslash does, as it requires spin support due to running a Sitrus berry instead of HDB; Snowslash tends not to fit on such teams since you don't have enough snow turns for 2 abusers; as such, teams with Cetitan tend to run Avalugg. This means you're running two pure-ice types, which unsurprisingly leads to team synergy issues for a type with as many weaknesses as Ice has.

This issue is compounded when you realize that Cetitan's also best in the flying and dragon MUs, two matchups that Ice should already win by virtue of the type chart. This makes Cetitian effectively a win-more mon that screws over your team synergy in order to function properly.

If anything, I feel that B rank is a bit high for this mon, but I'll settle with B because there is still value in having a strong win condition in the Flying and Dragon MUs as these matchups are far from a guaranteed win for Ice.

Frosmoth: C>D

This is hard to justify. While it's not unviable, it would require some very specific team structures for me to consider adding it; generally Specs Kyurem does whatever QD Frosmoth wants to do better. Defog moth is interesting but again, hard to justify on a type that gets an excellent spinner in Avalugg. D rank is where this fits best I think, alongside other similarly hard to justify mons like Piloswine and Dewgong.

Articuno: C>D

The problem with Articuno is that it takes way too much from it wants to switch into. Look at the calcs:

252 SpA Choice Specs Protean Greninja Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 208+ SpD Articuno: 127-150 (33.1 - 39.1%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 208+ SpD Articuno: 153-180 (39.9 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Power Gem vs. 248 HP / 208+ SpD Articuno: 344-408 (89.8 - 106.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
4 Atk Iron Valiant Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Articuno: 162-192 (42.2 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Expert Belt Iron Valiant Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 208+ SpD Articuno: 144-170 (37.5 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 208+ SpD Articuno: 141-166 (36.8 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 208+ SpD Articuno: 130-153 (33.9 - 39.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0- Atk Sheer Force Landorus Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Articuno: 308-364 (80.4 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Spectrier Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 208+ SpD Articuno: 135-160 (35.2 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

These calcs show the kinds of Special attackers you want Articuno to switch into; even if they don't predict the cuno-switch in it's still a 3HKO, which means Articuno is forced to Roost if it wants to be able to switch in again. This gives the opponent a free switch to a potentially very dangerous threat as Articuno doesn't have much offensive presence. And of course, if they do predict the Cuno switch-in with Rock Slide or CC it can easily mean a dead Articuno; in addition, it's also suspectable to Shadow Ball drops from things like Specs Flutter Mane and Specs Spectrier.

Overall hard to justify this mon has it's just not that good of a wall. Belongs in the same rank as stuff like Pilowine IMO.

 

[Neko]

Meow here once again.
VR update will happen by July (after MPL). Please get your noms done before June 30 so that we can take it into account when we vote.
Thanks in advance and I really like how lower tier type VRs have a lot of feedback this time around

 

[July]

A -> S
Araquanid plays a key role in almost all bug teams. Setting webs, being immune to burn and outputting alot of work in rock and fires mus. Now adays it has become a staple in the bug teams. There are many sets for diff purpose such as Endeavor cutsap, webs, stockpile and mirror coat. The versatility and being helpful in core mus should make Araquanid a must on bug teams.

 

[Pengairxan]

Gonna be brief for these (hopefully)

C -> D (Fighting)/B-> C (Grass)
Unless you really want to beat Stall Water or are really interested in sleep, Lilli-H will generally do Loom's job of being a Grass/Fighting-type better. A superior speed tier and Ice Spinner makes it generally speaking more reliable as a sweeper and breaker with it being generally harder to wall.

B-> S (Fire)
The Moth is back to being a menace to society now that gouger is gone. Its does the same things its always done.
C -> B (Fire)
As a reliable ground immunity that can actually check the Ogerpon formes (or well 2/3rds of them) once it gets in is a worthwhile mon to consider overall and in my opinion, the most notable of the C rank threats.

(Flying) B -> A
A landorus form should be on most good flying comps. While Incarnate is the generally more popular forme, Therian is still perfectly solid and can preform far better in several matchups.

(Ground) C->B
Basically a repeat of what I said last time. Landorus is not a one stop solution for a special attacker on ground and having a backup gravity setter that can more reliably threaten the Metal Birds (without getting Gravity up first or hoping that Focus Blast lands) is valuable.

B -> A (Poison)
While a SR weaker on our big specs breaker isn't the best, it is often manageable enough in most games to still do its breaking job successfully before rocks does remove it. And if being weak to rocks is still too much, just put on some shoes as moth still has incredible breaking power (140 is nothing to scoff at) while no longer being rock weak. We still pick up a lot of the main important targets we want with boots anyway and boots is honestly better for Bug since it means Moth can far more reliably check Scizor which is funky.

A -> B (Poison)
I still think Okidogi is great, do not get me wrong, I nearly brought Choice Band Okidogi in MPL, before Neko was Cringe right about my team, but Sneasler is in my opinion way more reliable to fit onto teams overall. Its superior speed tier and more flexible set variety out of the box trumps Dogi which is either reliant on Bulk up or necessities Scarf/Band to fix a sinking ship. It is still incredible for the Steel MU and arguably better than Sneasler for Dark, but otherwise the effort to make Dogi work is just not worth it a lot of the time. Maybe I'm just losing my touch with it though.

 

[OricocoForever]

A -> S
Araquanid plays a key role in almost all bug teams. Setting webs, being immune to burn and outputting alot of work in rock and fires mus. Now adays it has become a staple in the bug teams. There are many sets for diff purpose such as Endeavor cutsap, webs, stockpile and mirror coat. The versatility and being helpful in core mus should make Araquanid a must on bug teams.

I concur. Unlike most sticky webs, it is actually half decent outside of webbing, and it is the only bug water type - and water, aside from maybe rock, is probably the best secondary typing for a monotype bug.

 

[PandaDoux]

A -> S (Dark)
Greninja is a no brainer to put in Dark teams, it helps dealing with so many matchups that it's hard to drop it really, it got used in pretty much every team in MPL and deservingly so.

B -> A (Dragon)
Excellent late game sweeper, you can give it the coverage you want depending on which MUs you want to deal with it, it has access to Extreme Speed that still makes it a good Pokemon into more offensive types and it's one of the best Pokemon you can put in your team to help mirror MU

B -> D (Dragon)
It didn't get any usage in MPL, it just kinda get outclassed by a lot of stuff, it lacks speed and the only reason to use it is if you want to really beat steel for which you have other options that are better into every other MUs (Dragapult, Walking Wake, Garchomp)

B -> A (Dragon)
Raging Bolt is a super solid option to have to deal with Flying & Water effectively, it's a bit weaker into some MUs like Ground & Steel but is overall a great Pokemon to have in a team.

C -> B (Dragon)
Walking Wake helps dealing with Steel and Dark, both of these types struggle to find answers to its attacks and Wake's bulk & typing allow it to check a lot of slower Pokemons and actively put pressure in other MUs too

B -> A (Flying)
Excellent special wall, kinda counters Fairy and helps against Water, kinda standard but pretty effective into a lot of special breakers

B -> C (Flying)
Zapdos is really only useful into mirror, you usually prefer having Articuno or Dragonite to deal with Water, it's decent ig but you just have many better options to fit in teams

B -> A (Ghost)
Rapid Spin's utility is super valuable to have, especially for Ceruledge, and Spikes helps against many types as well. Brambleghast is still powerful and fast enough to put a lot of pressure vs Ground & Water, so it's not just a lead with no other purpose than setting up hazards, it's a good option in some MUs outside of that too and probably the best partner to Ceruledge to keep its Focus Sash and let it act as a late-game sweeper or mid-game breaker

& A -> S (Normal)
To be honest Normal just doesn't have many good options and the 4 S + Blissey & Porygon2 just feels like the perfect Normal team ngl, Blissey walls pretty much everything on the special side, and Porygon2 walls pretty much everything on the physical side except for Fighting-types, Blissey is passive but provides utility & hazards for the team and Porygon2 kinda just win some MUs like Ground on its own.
Yes it's weird to have 6 S Tier and 0 A... but it's kinda how Normal feels rn, nothing really feels droppable and there's no other option i'd rather have than theses 6.

B -> A (Poison)
Iron Moth is important to make the MU against Gholdengo somewhat playable and is a great breaker depending on the MU

S -> A (Water)
Greninja is good but it doesn't feel mandatory at all, there are other Scarf users and special wallbreakers, Stall teams can use Greninja but variants without it are fine, and Rain teams can drop Greninja as well since they get Barraskewda Swift Swim or Aqua Jet users and want to take advantage of the rain, something Greninja doesn't do since it usually drops the Water STAB for coverage.

 

[pikachu<3]

More Ice noms:

B -> A

Turns out a customizable fighting immunity that provides chip damage that nearly every mon on ice appreciates is really easy to fit onto teams. Spikes makes any user of knock off just that much harder to switch into for bulky HDB users, which makes things like Snowslash, Dewgong, Weavile, and Mamoswine harder to handle. Froslass is also stupidly customizable. Need more speed control? Add Twave. Need to set up a Sub on some physical tank? Run Will-o-wisp. Need to ensure hazards from Ting-Lu don't get up early in the game? Run Taunt. Having problems with bulky fighting types? Run Destiny bond. Hell I'm pretty sure you could fit Tbolt for Corviknight if you really wanted to; this thing is stupidly customizable and really only asks for spin support to work to its full potential. IMO this is better than Weavile and Mamoswine and definitely deserves a rise.

UR->D
UR -> D

Not saying these mons are particularly great or anything but I've seen Roxie using them during MLT laddering (probably to snipe some people...) and they seem semi usable, which is really all that's needed for shitmon rank.

 

[Neko]

Meow, thank you so much for the VR noms. We voted on the nominations presented by everyone since the last update and a few internal nominations. Here are the updates:

Grass
A->S

Every grass team that isn't sun should be Meow, Amoong, an Ogerpon forme, and 3 fillers. This is way too hard to drop--helmet builds are the most splashable (there are fewer better ways to punish uturns and triple axel users; and spore is broken; absorbing Tspikes with regenerator is also absurd on top of the valuable fighting resist), but other items (eject button, HDB) have their merits too on specific builds.

UR->D

Base form has the advantage of being able to run an item, which allows for some unique team compositions.

B->C
From the mons pikachu<3 mentioned, the VR team felt that this drop is the most appropriate, as Mach Punch isnt that great these days, you would prefer Hisuian Lilligant to try and gamble on Flying and Dragon matchups too and almost beats Pex ish too.

Fire
D->C

Aside from being a decently strong scarfer, which allows Cinderace to run boots+court change instead of itself being scarfed, the option to perform a well timed switcheroo can help infernape cripple checks to the strong set up sweepers on fire (Ogerpon-H, Ceruledege), allowing them to get free turns or more easily beat checks such as toxapex.

B->A

In this post-Gouging Fire metagame, Volcarona is a must-have for every Fire team. Predominantly used in its Bulkyrona form to act as a formidable late-game sweeper, there is no shortage of matchups this mon can reverse by abusing of Flame Body, Quiver Dance, and Morning Sun.

Ice
C->A

Avalugg has earned itself as a permanent staple on every single one of my teams for a reason.
Avalugg is the ONLY and true reliable bulk ice has, period. An incredible 184 defense and 95 HP make this thing a monster by itself.
Avalugg is the only ice mon allowed to switch in on a close combat, bullet punch, drain punch, ect reliably. Without avalugg on your team, you are guaranteed to have to sack a mon every single time a fast heavy physical hitter comes along.

D->C

Dewgong makes the fire and ghost matchup significantly easier and fluid, both of which are hard matchups for ice due to fire's inherent offensive pressure and ice's fire weakness, and ghost being able to deny hazard control and fluttermane which ice doesnt have a great answer for. Dewgong is an answer to both.
Allowing slow pivoting, knock off, and incredible special bulk with thick fat and assault vest.

B->D

, it's also kind of weak; the dexset of Iron head/eq/knock/spin isn't strong enough to not be setup bait for things like Volcarona, Dragonite, bulky Twave Gholdengo (who also spinblocks it...); in addition, it's not quite fast enough to outspeed things you'd really like such as +2 Ceruledge, +1 Battle Bond Greninja and +2 Iron crown.

Overall this mon is a medicore mon as both a speed control and removal option, and nerfs your screens in order to function

C->D

The problem with Articuno is that it takes way too much from it wants to switch into. These calcs show the kinds of Special attackers you want Articuno to switch into; even if they don't predict the cuno-switch in it's still a 3HKO, which means Articuno is forced to Roost if it wants to be able to switch in again. This gives the opponent a free switch to a potentially very dangerous threat as Articuno doesn't have much offensive presence.

Dragon
B->A

Despite many fierce competitors, Raging Bolt claimed Gouging Fire's spot in the long run, helping Dragon to fix MU's like Water/Flying/Fairy/Poison/Bug. CM set can prove devastating against many teams, especially combined with its great natural bulk.

B->A

Excellent late game sweeper, you can give it the coverage you want depending on which MUs you want to deal with it, it has access to Extreme Speed that still makes it a good Pokemon into more offensive types and it's one of the best Pokemon you can put in your team to help mirror MU

C->B

Walking Wake helps dealing with Steel and Dark, both of these types struggle to find answers to its attacks and Wake's bulk & typing allow it to check a lot of slower Pokemons and actively put pressure in other MUs too

B->C

It didn't get any usage in MPL, it just kinda get outclassed by a lot of stuff, it lacks speed and the only reason to use it is if you want to really beat steel for which you have other options that are better into every other MUs (Dragapult, Walking Wake, Garchomp)

Bug
A->S

Araquanid plays a key role in almost all bug teams. Setting webs, being immune to burn and outputting alot of work in rock and fires mus. Now adays it has become a staple in the bug teams. There are many sets for diff purpose such as Endeavor cutsap, webs, stockpile and mirror coat. The versatility and being helpful in core mus should make Araquanid a must on bug teams.

Fighting
C->D

Unless you really want to beat Stall Water or are really interested in sleep, Lilli-H will generally do Loom's job of being a Grass/Fighting-type better. A superior speed tier and Ice Spinner makes it generally speaking more reliable as a sweeper and breaker with it being generally harder to wall.

Flying
B->A
The incarnate form is the more popular and more useful Landorus in most cases: Choice Scarf sets outspeed and OHKO (or at least close to OHKOing...) key threats like Iron Valiant, Ogerpon-formes, +1 Volcarona, and Kyurem among others.

B->A

Excellent special wall, kinda counters Fairy and helps against Water, kinda standard but pretty effective into a lot of special breakers

Poison
B->A

While a SR weaker on our big specs breaker isn't the best, it is often manageable enough in most games to still do its breaking job successfully before rocks does remove it. And if being weak to rocks is still too much, just put on some shoes as moth still has incredible breaking power (140 is nothing to scoff at) while no longer being rock weak.

A->B

Sneasler is in my opinion way more reliable to fit onto teams overall. Its superior speed tier and more flexible set variety out of the box trumps Dogi which is either reliant on Bulk up or necessities Scarf/Band to fix a sinking ship. It is still incredible for the Steel MU and arguably better than Sneasler for Dark, but otherwise the effort to make Dogi work is just not worth it a lot of the time.

Dark
A->S

Greninja is a no brainer to put in Dark teams, it helps dealing with so many matchups that it's hard to drop it really, it got used in pretty much every team in MPL and deservingly so.

Ghost
B->A

Rapid Spin's utility is super valuable to have, especially for Ceruledge, and Spikes helps against many types as well. Brambleghast is still powerful and fast enough to put a lot of pressure vs Ground & Water, so it's not just a lead with no other purpose than setting up hazards, it's a good option in some MUs outside of that too and probably the best partner to Ceruledge to keep its Focus Sash and let it act as a late-game sweeper or mid-game breaker

Normal
A->S

To be honest Normal just doesn't have many good options and the 4 S + Blissey & Porygon2 just feels like the perfect Normal team ngl, Blissey walls pretty much everything on the special side, and Porygon2 walls pretty much everything on the physical side except for Fighting-types, Blissey is passive but provides utility & hazards for the team and Porygon2 kinda just win some MUs like Ground on its own.

Psychic
D->C
Chilly reception is pretty good for positioning the breakers Psychic has like Hoopa-U and Latios. While it doesnt get Iron Defense, it makes up for momentum (and you dont really need IDef as much without Gouger)

A->B
A Water resist is more valuable than Slowking-G's Toxic Spikes and typing. As you cant run both kings, dies to FlutterPultKrai anyway, and using it stacks up Ground weakness in Metagross and Iron Boulder, it doesnt seem to be fit to keep him as high as he is.

This is all for this rank update. We hope to hear feedback from these changes! Thank you so much for contributing and stay tuned for a samples update...uhh..within the month

 

[Day Healer]

Heya, I have been trying low ladder types lately just for fun and I have some noms:

Rock: idk if someone plays this type anymore but here we go

A -> C/D
Just gonna copy what boomp posted like 1 year ago:

Garg should be to B or C, Do not see whats the point of Garg in Monotype other than being set up fodder. Its a good mon in UU but not for Monotype.

In theory Garg could do well again water or steel, in real life it gets 1 salt cure before any water attack kills it, on steel is setup bait for bulky Gholdengo, phazed by Skarmory, etc. This mon is even worst than it was a year ago so yeah put it down.

C -> B
This train guy is the best check rock have to Archaludon, that alone makes it all over other C mons. Then it counters the classic Scizor and other physical attackers. In the downside it's type clashes with H-arcanine, so it makes ur team weaker to water, also Glimmora is the better hazard remover so that too, but until Archa is in the tier (hopefully no for long) this is your guy.

UR -> D
Still the best magnet puller rock types have, is only hold back cause Archaludon is in the tier, otherwise it could be a staple instead of Coalossal. Can even trap Klefki and break it's screens with banded Brick break. Sure a mon to have in mind for the future.

Grass:

C -> B
Still the best hazard setter and bonus hazard remover grass have, you can do some shenanigans with it's ability again Tornadus-t or troll Zapdos, or get a free boost with Tailwind from Whimsicott. Its hold back cause it shares types with Sinistcha, but because it is a suicide lead it isnt that big of a problem anyway. At least it offers way more than all other C mons listed.

D -> C
Ok yes, metagame didnt treat Whimsicott very well, goodra-h walls it to oblivion and avest Iron hands stop it too. Instead it shines like disruptor with it's ammount of support moves: Encore/Stun spore are nice again scary threats (stun spore again like sneasler totally worth the sacrifice for example), Tailwind is a last ditch move to help the team overall. It also does great again dark too. Definitively deserve more love.

(I know

just got downgraded but I couldnt complain if he goes to D, like damn this mon is such a joke in today metagame)

Electric:

D -> B
With how laughably slow is electric nowadays, one of the best archetypes (if not the best) for electric is sticky webs. Just for that alone the spider deserve some ranks higher.

Thats all for now i think.

 

[Hon07rial]

Good Morning, Smogon! I have been playing ghost since I started monotype and here is my personal VR

 

[Khahara]

Heya, I have been trying low ladder types lately just for fun and I have some noms:

Rock: idk if someone plays this type anymore but here we go

A -> C/D
Just gonna copy what boomp posted like 1 year ago:

In theory Garg could do well again water or steel, in real life it gets 1 salt cure before any water attack kills it, on steel is setup bait for bulky Gholdengo, phazed by Skarmory, etc. This mon is even worst than it was a year ago so yeah put it down.

Yeah, a heavy no on both of these. Garg is much more useful than just its ability to Salt Cure Water and Steel types, though it actually does so fairly well in practice. Garg can p handedly wear down Archaludon and force out some fairly common threats after a couple of turns. Its ability to also keep itself from being statused makes it very useful for a type that is otherwise quite liable to being harmed by them. You don't have as reliable of a switch onto threats like Toxapex or Flutter Mane as Garganacl. ID sets can also check a huge variety of mons and can often be an extraordinary wincon in its own right. In all honesty, it's potentially quite abusable and often finds a chance to make a serious difference in almost every matchup. It's not an outright essential Pokemon, but it's very good and not a niche or situational one in the slightest. Certainly more splashable than any C or D tier mon. Would highly recommend actually playing with Garg more.

 

[OricocoForever]

Volcarona S -> A

I feel like Volcarona gets a lot of slack just because it's an ubers pokemon.

Offensive capabilities
Grass is already a good match up, for ice, the other three S ranks do pretty well, in a bug vs bug match up, you're going to immediately get one shot by Kleavor or Araquanid. Steel is... fine, but Archaludon and Heatran exist, and it wouldn't even be an A rank if it was completely useless.

Defensive capabilities
Makes the water match up go from hard to impossible, makes the terrible rock match up worse (Bug teams rely on rock being bad enough they'll never face one, but it's at the point where any pokemon with a rock move can destroy a bug team)

Also, maybe it's a skill issue, but with roughly 30 games played with it, I have never set it up to the point it is a threat before it gets destroyed. It's a good day if it takes just one other pokemon down.

Plus, all it's sets are basically the same, so it's easy to predict.

The other reason I think it shouldn't go lower though, is that being a special attacker is pretty valuable in a type which would otherwise get completely destroyed by any pokemon with a decent defense stat.

In conclusion, someone should make a potential man meme with Volcarona in it. And if no one else does, I will.

 

[Frostium]

View attachment 760193Volcarona S -> A

I feel like Volcarona gets a lot of slack just because it's an ubers pokemon.

Offensive capabilities
Grass is already a good match up, for ice, the other three S ranks do pretty well, in a bug vs bug match up, you're going to immediately get one shot by Kleavor or Araquanid. Steel is... fine, but Archaludon and Heatran exist, and it wouldn't even be an A rank if it was completely useless.

Defensive capabilities
Makes the water match up go from hard to impossible, makes the terrible rock match up worse (Bug teams rely on rock being bad enough they'll never face one, but it's at the point where any pokemon with a rock move can destroy a bug team)

Also, maybe it's a skill issue, but with roughly 30 games played with it, I have never set it up to the point it is a threat before it gets destroyed. It's a good day if it takes just one other pokemon down.

Plus, all it's sets are basically the same, so it's easy to predict.

The other reason I think it shouldn't go lower though, is that being a special attacker is pretty valuable in a type which would otherwise get completely destroyed by any pokemon with a decent defense stat.

In conclusion, someone should make a potential man meme with Volcarona in it. And if no one else does, I will.

I have to disagree honestly.

In what world are you running a bug team without volc? It is beyond essential, that is kinda what makes a mon S in viability. Its a MUST have.

In bug vs bug, are you just going to blissfully stay in vs araq and kleav? Vs steel, are you going to set up in heatrans face and giga drain it to death? Absolutely not. You have an entire team to deal with things volc cant. There is a reason why power gem heatran gets usage and its because its the only real reliable way to deal with volc when youre running steel. Arch is providing no threatening power besides thunder wave but volc is definitely not walled by arch.

Volc having a water weakness does not make it useless vs water, by that logic, kleavor is also a massive hinderance and thus renders him non essential to bug? No.

My last point, bug has always had a good matchup into rock, sorry. Scizor exists and when rocks best option to deal with it is running a highly niche COALOSSAL, bug is bound to have a better matchup.

 

[OricocoForever]

I have to disagree honestly.

In what world are you running a bug team without volc? It is beyond essential, that is kinda what makes a mon S in viability. Its a MUST have.

In bug vs bug, are you just going to blissfully stay in vs araq and kleav? Vs steel, are you going to set up in heatrans face and giga drain it to death? Absolutely not. You have an entire team to deal with things volc cant. There is a reason why power gem heatran gets usage and its because its the only real reliable way to deal with volc when youre running steel. Arch is providing no threatening power besides thunder wave but volc is definitely not walled by arch.

Volc having a water weakness does not make it useless vs water, by that logic, kleavor is also a massive hinderance and thus renders him non essential to bug? No.

My last point, bug has always had a good matchup into rock, sorry. Scizor exists and when rocks best option to deal with it is running a highly niche COALOSSAL, bug is bound to have a better matchup.

Sorry, my bad. I kind of over exaggerated Volcaronas uselessness to try and prove my point.

The main issue with bug vs bug is that there aren't many good switch options against araq/kleavor, it is definitely useful vs steel, (and I did check the calcs - I think the archaludons I faced must have been AV for some reason) but at the best, it evens the playing field.
I consider it to be the worst of the S ranks, and so the first mon to cut if you want to make the water match up better (which to be fair, is kind of recursive logic), and yeah, I'm not sure what I was saying when I said bug vs rock is a bad match up.

 

[Pengairxan]

+

B -> A
Rain as an archtype in my opinion is better than what most people think and deserves the slight bump up which means bumping these two up. Pelipper while not great is still a decent emergency check to stuff like the Ogerpon formes and Meowscarada (actually beating Scarf Meowscarada provided it doesn't have TPunch) and is one of only 3(?) good knock users Water has which is nice. But the big thing is just rain. Basically nothing on Water outside of Toxapex and maybe Greninja, Rotom-W, and Cloyster will actually complain about the boost.
Barraskweda meanwhile is just the best core rain breaker. Even outside of Rain its ability to outspeed and check a ton of faster threats like Flutter Mane, Iron Valiant, and Darkrai is nice.

C -> D
Dondozo's big claims to fame is how bulky it is and being a strong unaware wall for Stall water aren't exactly in high demand. Notably, with how bad the water hazard removal situation is, Dondozo is often forced to rest much more often than it would like leaving it way too passive for long stretches or time and/or having issues checking what it would like too check in the first place. And for unaware on Stall seems nice, most appearances of Stall Water in modern times prefer to run Suicune over Dondozo with dozo seeing 0 MPL usage and while Stall water would see a vastly increased presense in MFPL Dondozo only got two games out of it (and one of them wasn't on stall water and went 0-5)