DPL XI meme thread: a reminder to touch grass

zee

zee

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please remember to get some sunlight and at least 6 to 7k steps per day. it's good for you!

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also dm me for my phone number if you wanna play 8ball i need more people to play 8ball with
 
1st mocc

1749256732726.png

Feyy12500
charmdi9000
SEROO9000
srvoltmike8500
churrojr6500
Evie6000
Noelle6000
Zephyr Moonbeam5500
volcaronavgc4500
Always!4000
EatFoods4000
Baddy4000
HiZo4000
Knull4000
breakfast enjoyer3500
Steam Buns3000
Rayenith3000
Slowpoke Fan3000
qsns26500
Spurrific22500
Chris3215618000
GenOne8000
Terekusai6000
CodeVG5500
Smudge4500
Lugi Lugi3000
Val163000
Cao Jie3000
Charlotte15500
Frixel15000
Hys13000
fespy12500
SingleThunder9000
Toxigen8000
AIRedzone7000
5ft56500
AKhant5000
platanazo3000
Tdmask3000
Ann26500
Opelucid10000
Yellow Paint9000
Genesis778500
mimi7000
SuckyLucky5500
waffle2O2O5000
One Last Kiss5000
Sapphire4500
PigWarrior193500
sundays3500
GasaiYunoSan3000
seraphz3000
Grillo3000
Enzonana.3000
JRL26000
SeaLife13500
luisin12500
shiloh10000
sir jelloton9000
KyleCole9000
Nephtyrix7000
Sunrose5000
Jazz7214000
Penter4000
Nails27000
Mishimono21000
Monai11000
SEA11000
Mako8500
BlackKnight_Gawain6500
Fc5000
Larry4000
Mada3000
lichess3000
MADARAAAA28500
Voltix15000
laptops13500
LogIce12000
entrocefalo8000
SvenVGC8000
Hugo4500
Test Bots4000
Shiritu3500
gephicka3000
EternalSnowman25000
DaWoblefet20000
Nido-Rus20000
Schister12000
ChainlessJoe7000
IcyPenguin24000
veti3000
KeshBa543000
xmarsh3000
FreyaknightVGC3000
MADARAAAA28500Slateport City _I_
Nails27000Po Town Gholdengos
qsns26500Kitchen Kingdras
Ann26500Milwaukee ducks
JRL26000Snowpoint City Cold Crew
EternalSnowman25000Geosenge Town Glimmoras
Spurrific22500Kitchen Kingdras
Mishimono21000Po Town Gholdengos
DaWoblefet20000Geosenge Town Glimmoras
Nido-Rus20000Geosenge Town Glimmoras
Chris3215618000Kitchen Kingdras
Charlotte15500Browbeat Lands 2
Frixel15000Browbeat Lands 2
Voltix15000Slateport City _I_
SeaLife13500Snowpoint City Cold Crew
laptops13500Slateport City _I_
Hys13000Browbeat Lands 2
fespy12500Browbeat Lands 2
Feyy12500Paldea Cratermakers
luisin12500Snowpoint City Cold Crew
LogIce12000Slateport City _I_
Schister12000Geosenge Town Glimmoras
Monai11000Po Town Gholdengos
SEA11000Po Town Gholdengos
Opelucid10000Milwaukee ducks
shiloh10000Snowpoint City Cold Crew
Yellow Paint9000Milwaukee ducks
sir jelloton9000Snowpoint City Cold Crew
charmdi9000Paldea Cratermakers
KyleCole9000Snowpoint City Cold Crew
SingleThunder9000Browbeat Lands 2
SEROO9000Paldea Cratermakers
srvoltmike8500Paldea Cratermakers
Genesis778500Milwaukee ducks
Mako8500Po Town Gholdengos
GenOne8000Kitchen Kingdras
entrocefalo8000Slateport City _I_
SvenVGC8000Slateport City _I_
Toxigen8000Browbeat Lands 2
AIRedzone7000Browbeat Lands 2
mimi7000Milwaukee ducks
Nephtyrix7000Snowpoint City Cold Crew
ChainlessJoe7000Geosenge Town Glimmoras
churrojr6500Paldea Cratermakers
5ft56500Browbeat Lands 2
BlackKnight_Gawain6500Po Town Gholdengos
Terekusai6000Kitchen Kingdras
Evie6000Paldea Cratermakers
Noelle6000Paldea Cratermakers
SuckyLucky5500Milwaukee ducks
CodeVG5500Kitchen Kingdras
Zephyr Moonbeam5500Paldea Cratermakers
waffle2O2O5000Milwaukee ducks
AKhant5000Browbeat Lands 2
One Last Kiss5000Milwaukee ducks
Sunrose5000Snowpoint City Cold Crew
Fc5000Po Town Gholdengos
Smudge4500Kitchen Kingdras
Sapphire4500Milwaukee ducks
volcaronavgc4500Paldea Cratermakers
Hugo4500Slateport City _I_
Always!4000Paldea Cratermakers
IcyPenguin24000Geosenge Town Glimmoras
Jazz7214000Snowpoint City Cold Crew
EatFoods4000Paldea Cratermakers
Baddy4000Paldea Cratermakers
HiZo4000Paldea Cratermakers
Larry4000Po Town Gholdengos
Test Bots4000Slateport City _I_
Knull4000Paldea Cratermakers
Penter4000Snowpoint City Cold Crew
breakfast enjoyer3500Paldea Cratermakers
PigWarrior193500Milwaukee ducks
sundays3500Milwaukee ducks
Shiritu3500Slateport City _I_
gephicka3000Slateport City _I_
Steam Buns3000Paldea Cratermakers
Lugi Lugi3000Kitchen Kingdras
veti3000Geosenge Town Glimmoras
GasaiYunoSan3000Milwaukee ducks
Mada3000Po Town Gholdengos
seraphz3000Milwaukee ducks
Grillo3000Milwaukee ducks
Rayenith3000Paldea Cratermakers
KeshBa543000Geosenge Town Glimmoras
platanazo3000Browbeat Lands 2
Tdmask3000Browbeat Lands 2
xmarsh3000Geosenge Town Glimmoras
FreyaknightVGC3000Geosenge Town Glimmoras
Slowpoke Fan3000Paldea Cratermakers
Val163000Kitchen Kingdras
Cao Jie3000Kitchen Kingdras
lichess3000Po Town Gholdengos
Enzonana.3000Milwaukee ducks
 
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A question asked perhaps a thousand times or more, passed like coin from hand to hand among the dust and ruin of years. Today I’ll set down my own accounting of it, and let it serve as answer to the community and to Yoda2798.
I will apologize first and foremost to the teams involved in the first iteration of DPL (then, SDPL). That tournament is non canon, as we all know and agree. Let us turn now to the teams that endured to the finals.


1750388677473.png

Note: Tiebreaker information doesn't show up here. You had to win the week outright for it to count as a win & the games weren't considered in the overall count. There are a few in there hidden, but the most obvious is the DPL 2 Ancients with 0 losses despite losing the tournament--they lost in tiebreaks. This is also true for the DPL 8 Browbeat lands, who lost in finals tiebreaks to the Milwaukee Ducks. Both score a tie in this case.

I think we should establish up front that the best team must be one that actually won the tournament. That’s the line. And that means more apologies. Sorry to the DPL 2 Oreburgh Ancients, the DPL 3 Rustboro Baptist Church, and the DPL 10 Paldea Cratermakers. Runners-up all, and all with finer records week to week and finer win/loss ratios than the champions who beat them. Timing is everything. And timing is cruel.

edit: after some meditation on the mountaintops, I was dissatisfied with my initial scoring method, so if you’re seeing this post again and thinking it looks different you’re right. I decided to rescore the record portion with a more traditional 1 point for a win, 0.5 points for a tie, 0 for a loss. Initially I shied away from this because the last 2 DPLs have had a longer schedule and therefore more weeks to earn points, but I decided to use this method after all and simply divide points earned by the total points the team could have earned over the course of the tournament by winning every week. I think this produces a more satisfying and correct result.

As before, a score was assigned to each team corresponding to their ranking against the other champion teams. First, for the aforementioned points earned/points possible metric, and second by their game w/l ratios. These two were given equal weighting and added together for a combined score at the bottom.
1750642880112-png.749714

Apologies for the ugly formatting—I’m on mobile and the choices I would usually make to increase the palatability of the spreadsheet were not available to me.

And there you have it! My pick for best ever DPL team goes to the DPL 5 Slateport City Spindas. The silver medal is a tie between the DPL 7 Santalune Storms and the DPL 2 Six Island Shitposters. Bronze goes to the DPL 4 Hungry Hungry Hippowdons. And so on.

You of course can rank the teams however you want. You can weigh the metrics differently than me. You can find new metrics. You can rank based on team logo or chat presence or general vibes. Go wild. I found Yoda's initial question an interesting one and it provides us with an opportunity to celebrate some historic achievements. I also got to practice my favourite hobby which is the dual role of DPL consultant/historian.

As for individual player recognition, a bunch of people have been on the winning team twice, but only three users have managed to win three times. They are DaWoblefet, Frania, and Stax. Good for them.

Also, for my own sake, here are the spreadsheets together in one place. You can also check against my work if you want.
10 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...05ELqVo1_Cz0/edit?gid=108211497#gid=108211497
9 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...tjpL_wYFMU/edit?gid=1192375715#gid=1192375715
8 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...yCLDwYOChY/edit?gid=1937719380#gid=1937719380
7 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...zfK39jJfYw/edit?gid=1192375715#gid=1192375715
6 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...ynJKuRxJrw/edit?gid=1288398741#gid=1288398741
5 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...yfEE6lspRs/edit?gid=1394296894#gid=1394296894
4 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...i1MNTDfk_M/edit?gid=1192375715#gid=1192375715
3 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...sJUnoypMJw/edit?gid=1364827325#gid=1364827325
2 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...tkw0X7-9mU/edit?gid=1364827325#gid=1364827325

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Paldea Cratermakers

JRL20500
fespy17000
LogIce10500
udhhfd123457500
choicebadkyurem4000
SuckyLucky3000
Rayenith3000
Val163000
Ann0
Arcticblast0

Browbeat Lands 2

Nails27000
laptops19000
Mishimono18500
srvoltmike12000
Staraptor8500
Lindwurm3000
Evie3000
FreyaknightVGC3000
ChainlessJoe3000
Kiwozz3000

Kitchen Kingdras

Nido-Rus25000
Hys16500
GenOne13000
KyleCole11000
Knull5000
Shiritu4500
IcyPenguin23000
luisin3000
yuki3000
eragon

Milwaukee Ducks

paraplegic17000
sir jelloton12000
Noelle6000
CodeVG5000
Opelucid5000
SvenVGC5000
sundays4500
Nephtyrix4000
Smudge3500
Platinum God n1n13000
MADARAAAA0
Akaru Kokuyo0

Snowpoint city Sneaslers

DaWoblefet27500
Frixel17500
SeaLife6500
Yuichi5500
SEA5000
waffle2O2O4500
Enzonana.4500
GasaiYunoSan3500
Test Bots3500
Mako3500
trace3500
Always!3000
AKhant3000
Ultimathrash3000
Fc3000
Givrix3000

Po Town Gholdengos

qsns25500
Voltix15500
SingleThunder13000
Yellow Paint10000
Terekusai8500
shiloh8000
5ft57000
breakfast enjoyer5000
EatFoods4000
Sunrose3500

Slateport City __i____

Spurrific24500
Idyll22500
Charlotte14500
Feyy12500
Toxigen8500
nadando4500
Larry4000
Sapphire3000
Tdmask3000
Deishu3000

Geosenge Town Glimmoras

Nails23000
Penter15000
SingleThunder11000
tyo11000
Platinum God n1n110000
volcaronavgc7000
PigWarrior196000
trace5500
breakfast enjoyer3000
Larry3000
Ev_Evan3000

Yoda edit: added Glimmoras prices
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I was drafted to DPL and wanted to see how I would have done if I was not drafted. So I asked chatGPT to write some python code to stimulate my results. Based on what I told chatGPT about the players, it wrote this code
import random
import matplotlib.pyplot as plt
import numpy as np
from collections import Counter

# Opponent data: win_prob (base), certainty (0 to 1), luck_factor (-0.1 to 0.1)
opponents = {
"KyleCole": {"win_prob": 0, "certainty": 1, "luck_factor": 0},
"Schister": {"win_prob": 0, "certainty": 1, "luck_factor": 0},
"Voltix": {"win_prob": 0, "certainty": 1, "luck_factor": 0},
"Arcticblast": {"win_prob": 0, "certainty": 1, "luck_factor": 0},
"laptops": {"win_prob": 0, "certainty": 1, "luck_factor": 0},
"SingleThunder": {"win_prob": 0, "certainty": 1, "luck_factor": 0},
"qsns": {"win_prob": 0, "certainty": 1, "luck_factor": 0}
}

# Number of simulations
num_simulations = 10000
results = []

def simulate_match(base_prob, certainty, luck_factor):
# Add uncertainty via Gaussian noise scaled by (1 - certainty)
std_dev = (1 - certainty) * 0.15 # standard deviation maxes at 15%
adjusted_prob = np.random.normal(base_prob, std_dev)

# Apply luck factor (positive = opponent luckier, so you win less often)
adjusted_prob -= luck_factor

# Clamp probability between 0 and 1
adjusted_prob = max(0, min(1, adjusted_prob))

return random.random() < adjusted_prob

# Run the simulations
for _ in range(num_simulations):
wins = 0
for data in opponents.values():
if simulate_match(data["win_prob"], data["certainty"], data["luck_factor"]):
wins += 1
results.append(wins)

# Show average result
mean_wins = np.mean(results)
print(f"Expected number of wins: {mean_wins:.2f} out of {len(opponents)} games\n")

# Show win count distribution
win_counts = Counter(results)
for w in range(len(opponents) + 1):
print(f"{w} wins: {win_counts[w]} times ({win_counts[w]/num_simulations:.1%})")

# Plot histogram
plt.hist(results, bins=range(0, len(opponents) + 2), edgecolor='black', align='left')
plt.xlabel("Wins in Tournament")
plt.ylabel("Frequency")
plt.title(f"Monte Carlo Simulation with Uncertainty & Luck ({num_simulations} runs)")
plt.xticks(range(len(opponents) + 1))
plt.grid(axis='y', linestyle='--', alpha=0.7)

# Save plot to file instead of showing
plt.savefig("simulation_results2.png", dpi=300, bbox_inches='tight')

Here are the results
simulation_results2.png

I had hoped for better results and believe that it is under estimating me.
 
Fully anticipating being clowned for my take here but here goes: I think there is a risk XY Genies users have lost sight of what they were originally intended to be - an intro to the tier for new players - and have shifted into a different purpose, almost eclipsing the need for players to learn teambuilding at all and removing what used to be a fundamental skillcheck.

I'm a XY main and can only really talk for XY Genies here, but thought it might be worth making a post in case there is are any similar feelings across other gens/tiers and whether we can learn/adapt something or not.

At least in XY DOU, the current 17 Genies teams are incredibly good and cover practically every major team archtype. This might not be the case in other metagames and maybe your genies teams are outdated and therefore we dont have the same issue. But in xy, the genies of healthy meta are good and they cover everything you'd ever want to use. This is no longer about giving new players an intro to the game, its giving them every single resource they need to enter a tournament and be immediately competitive with no meta familiarity or further work required.

I don't think its surprising that this year's DPL has seen a huge number of R1 upsets. New players unfamiliar to the tier have access to almost all the same resources that long-time top players that self-build do, right down to the perfectly optimised EV spreads and techs that they couldn't have discovered on their own. The unfortunate reality of this game is that it has a relatively low skill ceiling, and anyone coming into a game with baseline pokemon knowledge and a top team has potential to cause an upset with a decent matchup or a bit of luck, and in this way I think the ubiquity of incredible teams on the forums erodes one of the game's steepest skillchecks - teambuilding.

There's a fine line to draw between making the game accessible for new players, and giving out so many highly optimised and tournament ready teams that they truly don't need to set foot in the teambuilder at all.

My suggestion:
Genies need to exist but we probably have too many of them. Sometimes when I bring up this topic, it is suggested I simply need to make sure I have good MUs into the genies, knowing that everyone has access to them - this is not realistic when there are 6 of them and 3-4 of them are all modern and strong. If genies are truly about giving new players a taste of the tier, then they don't need 3 versions of landorus-t. They just need starting points to know what the stronger strategies are, and encouragement to explore other options for themselves. 10 Thundurus sets would be plenty, perhaps even too many.

Genies could also probably be less optimised. Maybe 252 / 252 spreads only. Maybe don't allow Hidden Powers (or Tera Type or Z-moves or w/e equivalent in your metagames, I don't know enough to properly comment). Hyper optimised techs that make the entire team click could be switched out for the more generic option and let a player work something out for themselves. If a player isn't good enough to recognise that a team needs to EV their thundurus to survive whatever they decide in the moment because it can viably run whatever, then allow them to slip up, learn from the mistake, and correct it. If a player hasn't realised that landorus-t can be EVd to take a Tyranitar ice punch, then we should just let them die to ice punch until they work that out. 252/252 EV spreads only and encourage them to learn something.

I know this sounds elitist and horrible but since returning to the game in 2017 this has been an annoyance. People are accustomed to handouts and are entitled. When genies aren't updated for a year our discord is inundated with petulant fucks complaining about the LTV Teams being outdated. On the other side of the spectrum, we see people get hardstuck as trying to upskill your teambuilding after a year of having perfect teams is demotivating. Big names get knocked out R1 of tours cos everyone has LTV+Conk and its a crit away from beating anything.

The genies no longer serve their initial purpose, discuss.
 
KyleCole said:
Fully anticipating being clowned for my take here but here goes: I think there is a risk XY Genies users have lost sight of what they were originally intended to be - an intro to the tier for new players - and have shifted into a different purpose, almost eclipsing the need for players to learn teambuilding at all and removing what used to be a fundamental skillcheck.

I'm a XY main and can only really talk for XY Genies here, but thought it might be worth making a post in case there is are any similar feelings across other gens/tiers and whether we can learn/adapt something or not.

At least in XY DOU, the current 17 Genies teams are incredibly good and cover practically every major team archtype. This might not be the case in other metagames and maybe your genies teams are outdated and therefore we dont have the same issue. But in xy, the genies of healthy meta are good and they cover everything you'd ever want to use. This is no longer about giving new players an intro to the game, its giving them every single resource they need to enter a tournament and be immediately competitive with no meta familiarity or further work required.

I don't think its surprising that this year's DPL has seen a huge number of R1 upsets. New players unfamiliar to the tier have access to almost all the same resources that long-time top players that self-build do, right down to the perfectly optimised EV spreads and techs that they couldn't have discovered on their own. The unfortunate reality of this game is that it has a relatively low skill ceiling, and anyone coming into a game with baseline pokemon knowledge and a top team has potential to cause an upset with a decent matchup or a bit of luck, and in this way I think the ubiquity of incredible teams on the forums erodes one of the game's steepest skillchecks - teambuilding.

There's a fine line to draw between making the game accessible for new players, and giving out so many highly optimised and tournament ready teams that they truly don't need to set foot in the teambuilder at all.

My suggestion:
Genies need to exist but we probably have too many of them. Sometimes when I bring up this topic, it is suggested I simply need to make sure I have good MUs into the genies, knowing that everyone has access to them - this is not realistic when there are 6 of them and 3-4 of them are all modern and strong. If genies are truly about giving new players a taste of the tier, then they don't need 3 versions of landorus-t. They just need starting points to know what the stronger strategies are, and encouragement to explore other options for themselves. 10 Thundurus sets would be plenty, perhaps even too many.

Genies could also probably be less optimised. Maybe 252 / 252 spreads only. Maybe don't allow Hidden Powers (or Tera Type or Z-moves or w/e equivalent in your metagames, I don't know enough to properly comment). Hyper optimised techs that make the entire team click could be switched out for the more generic option and let a player work something out for themselves. If a player isn't good enough to recognise that a team needs to EV their thundurus to survive whatever they decide in the moment because it can viably run whatever, then allow them to slip up, learn from the mistake, and correct it. If a player hasn't realised that landorus-t can be EVd to take a Tyranitar ice punch, then we should just let them die to ice punch until they work that out. 252/252 EV spreads only and encourage them to learn something.

I know this sounds elitist and horrible but since returning to the game in 2017 this has been an annoyance. People are accustomed to handouts and are entitled. When genies aren't updated for a year our discord is inundated with petulant fucks complaining about the LTV Teams being outdated. On the other side of the spectrum, we see people get hardstuck as trying to upskill your teambuilding after a year of having perfect teams is demotivating. Big names get knocked out R1 of tours cos everyone has LTV+Conk and its a crit away from beating anything.

The genies no longer serve their initial purpose, discuss.
Click to expand...

:thundurus: :heatran: :amoonguss: :landorus: :kangaskhan:
 
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