Metagame Pure Hackmons

endagger said:
Has there been any discussion on the possible viability of Arboliva? I was looking for something for Spore and also Last Respects, and Arboliva is naturally immune to both, also Moongeist Beam
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Hi! One thing to address is that the weakness to Fire (Pdon weakness) and Fighting will always be problematic. Furthermore, it also has relatively too much weakness as a WG without much stat spread to back it up. It’s stat however, does make it usable as a slow pivot Ability Shield WG, but it’s sad how terrible its bulk is, which means it doesn’t do much against Neutralising Gas users even if they don’t have any other Flying/Fire/Fighting/Ice coverage which is unlikely. Arboliva can’t do anything against any NGas users under Magic Room or when your item gets Cgased unlike the likes of WG MAudino and Wetceus which can absorb hits and PSong back. Immunity to Spore is nice tho. For dealing with Spore, GrassCeus is better for that role.
Usually a Good as Gold or Magic Bounce mon like Slaking covers Spore and Last Respects while having the bulk.
Hope this helps!
 
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Hey remember that team I submitted awhile back? Yea it's outdated now so I'm posting the updated version, not to submit this time but just as a showcase. Currently I really enjoy how the team plays so I don't see it changing too much in the near future. Anyways, the changes.

https://pokepast.es/287ab1a6697bf9ca

:sm/kartana:
Kartana @ Ability Shield
Ability: Huge Power
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Sunsteel Strike
- Flower Trick
- Headlong Rush

Kartana is unchanged and remains as the primary breaker and sweeper of the team. Same as before, really hard to stop once everything is set up.

:ss/zamazenta:
Zamazenta @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Shadow Tag
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Corrosive Gas
- Taunt
- Burning Bulwark
- Soft-Boiled

Also remains unchanged for the most part, tho it's now safety goggles as ashield was useless on it (if opp is ngas I don't need to cgas them) and tera is dark to block prank and cgas on photon.

:sm/arceus-dark:
Arceus-Dark @ Ability Shield
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Teleport
- Haze
- Soft-Boiled
- Heal Bell

On darkceus, I chose to replace tidy up with heal bell to lean more into support. This honestly really helps the team as it can now shrug off burns and toxic once tspikes are cleared. This also helps darkceus go from a GaG hard counter to now a bulky support mon like it really should be.

:sm/slaking:
Slaking @ Ability Shield
Ability: Wonder Guard
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Knock Off
- Soft-Boiled
- Tidy Up
- Shed Tail

Given that I took tidy up off of darkceus, I needed to put my removal somewhere else. And given that cgas on slaking was useless, I just tossed it on slaking. Otherwise unchanged.

:sm/ludicolo:
Ludicolo @ Ability Shield
Ability: Wonder Guard
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Whirlwind
- Spikes
- Parting Shot
- Soft-Boiled

Now this is the main change I made with the team. While maud was good, there was one primary issue with it: it was sunsteel weak. This made the team really weak to wg kart with collision course. With ludicolo, the team now easily walls Kart and even gets a sunsteel resist. Ludicolo over grasseus to wall ng. Set is the same as before.

:ss/calyrex-shadow:
Calyrex-Shadow @ Focus Sash
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Astral Barrage
- Secret Sword
- Fiery Wrath

Same as before, nothing to add here.

While most of the changes are minor, they do go a long way in making the team feel better to play, atl imo.

Gameplan remains the same, remove ashield as necessary before setting up kart/calys to sweep. In general the team is very consistent as the wgs can wall most important mons and zama's forced progress is great at pushing the battle forward. And then once kart or calys is set up, the sweep is almost impossible to stop. This team has continued to bring me great success, getting me to 10th on ladder at one point. It's overall a very consistent team that I really enjoy.

Also for the pdon matchup the plan is generally to deny it magic room as kart can ohko with HP up. I will admit it's not good, but a lot of people don't seem to realize that and get pdon killed. And then once it's revived, kart ohkos in magic room as well.

I will continue to shill kart + stag cgas and there's nothing anyone can do about it. It's honestly a very strong team style and it gets two wild card slots for free. If you dislike this team, go ahead and build another one off of that kart + stag core. I promise it will not disappoint (not legally binding).
 
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LemonLime78 said:
Hey remember that team I submitted awhile back? Yea it's outdated now so I'm posting the updated version, not to submit this time but just as a showcase. Currently I really enjoy how the team plays so I don't see it changing too much in the near future. Anyways, the changes.

https://pokepast.es/287ab1a6697bf9ca

:sm/kartana:
Kartana @ Ability Shield
Ability: Huge Power
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Sunsteel Strike
- Flower Trick
- Headlong Rush

Kartana is unchanged and remains as the primary breaker and sweeper of the team. Same as before, really hard to stop once everything is set up.

:ss/zamazenta:
Zamazenta @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Shadow Tag
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Corrosive Gas
- Taunt
- Burning Bulwark
- Soft-Boiled

Also remains unchanged for the most part, tho it's now safety goggles as ashield was useless on it (if opp is ngas I don't need to cgas them) and tera is dark to block prank and cgas on photon.

:sm/arceus-dark:
Arceus-Dark @ Ability Shield
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Teleport
- Haze
- Soft-Boiled
- Heal Bell

On darkceus, I chose to replace tidy up with heal bell to lean more into support. This honestly really helps the team as it can now shrug off burns and toxic once tspikes are cleared. This also helps darkceus go from a GaG hard counter to now a bulky support mon like it really should be.

:sm/slaking:
Slaking @ Ability Shield
Ability: Wonder Guard
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Knock Off
- Soft-Boiled
- Tidy Up
- Shed Tail

Given that I took tidy up off of darkceus, I needed to put my removal somewhere else. And given that cgas on slaking was useless, I just tossed it on slaking. Otherwise unchanged.

:sm/ludicolo:
Ludicolo @ Ability Shield
Ability: Wonder Guard
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Whirlwind
- Spikes
- Parting Shot
- Soft-Boiled

Now this is the main change I made with the team. While maud was good, there was one primary issue with it: it was sunsteel weak. This made the team really weak to wg kart with collision course. With ludicolo, the team now easily walls Kart and even gets a sunsteel resist. Ludicolo over grasseus to wall ng. Set is the same as before.

:ss/calyrex-shadow:
Calyrex-Shadow @ Focus Sash
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Astral Barrage
- Secret Sword
- Fiery Wrath

Same as before, nothing to add here.

While most of the changes are minor, they do go a long way in making the team feel better to play, atl imo.

Gameplan remains the same, remove ashield as necessary before setting up kart/calys to sweep. In general the team is very consistent as the wgs can wall most important mons and zama's forced progress is great at pushing the battle forward. And then once kart or calys is set up, the sweep is almost impossible to stop. This team has continued to bring me great success, getting me to 10th on ladder at one point. It's overall a very consistent team that I really enjoy.

Also for the pdon matchup the plan is generally to deny it magic room as kart can ohko with HP up. I will admit it's not good, but a lot of people don't seem to realize that and get pdon killed. And then once it's revived, kart ohkos in magic room as well.

I will continue to shill kart + stag cgas and there's nothing anyone can do about it. It's honestly a very strong team style and it gets two wild card slots for free. If you dislike this team, go ahead and build another one off of that kart + stag core. I promise it will not disappoint (not legally binding).
Click to expand...
What does Zamazenta do that Regieleki wouldn't do better
 
ANinjaDude said:
What does Zamazenta do that Regieleki wouldn't do better
Click to expand...

zamazenta is the fastest thing that isn't regieleki that is also bulkier than regieleki, which does help you live a little longer I suppose, but the tradeoff is that you get to lose the 1v1 to taunt regieleki 100% of the time as opposed to 50%. I'm wondering what calcs would actually make this come into play because from experience the team really thuds into taunt eleki
 
Ye Zama is really there for the increased bulk, which does let it tank hits much better than eleki. Honestly not the worst thing when its purpose is to come in multiple times into various wgs, some which may be offensive.
 
LemonLime78 said:
Hey remember that team I submitted awhile back? Yea it's outdated now so I'm posting the updated version, not to submit this time but just as a showcase. Currently I really enjoy how the team plays so I don't see it changing too much in the near future. Anyways, the changes.

https://pokepast.es/287ab1a6697bf9ca

:sm/kartana:
Kartana @ Ability Shield
Ability: Huge Power
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Sunsteel Strike
- Flower Trick
- Headlong Rush

Kartana is unchanged and remains as the primary breaker and sweeper of the team. Same as before, really hard to stop once everything is set up.

:ss/zamazenta:
Zamazenta @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Shadow Tag
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Corrosive Gas
- Taunt
- Burning Bulwark
- Soft-Boiled

Also remains unchanged for the most part, tho it's now safety goggles as ashield was useless on it (if opp is ngas I don't need to cgas them) and tera is dark to block prank and cgas on photon.

:sm/arceus-dark:
Arceus-Dark @ Ability Shield
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Teleport
- Haze
- Soft-Boiled
- Heal Bell

On darkceus, I chose to replace tidy up with heal bell to lean more into support. This honestly really helps the team as it can now shrug off burns and toxic once tspikes are cleared. This also helps darkceus go from a GaG hard counter to now a bulky support mon like it really should be.

:sm/slaking:
Slaking @ Ability Shield
Ability: Wonder Guard
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Knock Off
- Soft-Boiled
- Tidy Up
- Shed Tail

Given that I took tidy up off of darkceus, I needed to put my removal somewhere else. And given that cgas on slaking was useless, I just tossed it on slaking. Otherwise unchanged.

:sm/ludicolo:
Ludicolo @ Ability Shield
Ability: Wonder Guard
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Whirlwind
- Spikes
- Parting Shot
- Soft-Boiled

Now this is the main change I made with the team. While maud was good, there was one primary issue with it: it was sunsteel weak. This made the team really weak to wg kart with collision course. With ludicolo, the team now easily walls Kart and even gets a sunsteel resist. Ludicolo over grasseus to wall ng. Set is the same as before.

:ss/calyrex-shadow:
Calyrex-Shadow @ Focus Sash
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Astral Barrage
- Secret Sword
- Fiery Wrath

Same as before, nothing to add here.

While most of the changes are minor, they do go a long way in making the team feel better to play, atl imo.

Gameplan remains the same, remove ashield as necessary before setting up kart/calys to sweep. In general the team is very consistent as the wgs can wall most important mons and zama's forced progress is great at pushing the battle forward. And then once kart or calys is set up, the sweep is almost impossible to stop. This team has continued to bring me great success, getting me to 10th on ladder at one point. It's overall a very consistent team that I really enjoy.

Also for the pdon matchup the plan is generally to deny it magic room as kart can ohko with HP up. I will admit it's not good, but a lot of people don't seem to realize that and get pdon killed. And then once it's revived, kart ohkos in magic room as well.

I will continue to shill kart + stag cgas and there's nothing anyone can do about it. It's honestly a very strong team style and it gets two wild card slots for free. If you dislike this team, go ahead and build another one off of that kart + stag core. I promise it will not disappoint (not legally binding).
Click to expand...
Really strong team!
Just one thing in mind. Stacking 3 Fighting weaks and one Photon weak without any way to prevent HP MMX from outright sweeping if you don't commit tera early is especially dangerous in the MMX MU. A standard HP MMX with Photon, Collision Course, CGas, *Coverage Move* can certainly cause chaos against this team especially because this team doesn't have a Taunt user that can prevent Regi from RBlessing MMX for another chance to sweep.
If you have Headlong Rush on Kart just for Don, I would recommend JPunch.
Anyw, solid team.
 
TheRealArtisan said:
I played this format a few weeks ago with this team https://pokepast.es/58958e1cc146da05

The latest itteration is https://pokepast.es/0e2bf41d10027d77
Click to expand...
One noticeable issue here is a general lack of item removal, with the only option being pdon who doesn't really have a lot of longevity for that role (it needs to cgas and then bitter blade and it really wants to lose HP to clangorous soul and lorb). Also, the team has a really bad matchup into ngas darkceus (pot meet kettle, ik) as once it's behind a sub and victory danced up there's not a lot you can do. The hazard removal on this team is also lacking as it gets blocked by every mandatory wg, which isn't good for a bulkier team. Remember to set teras.

For more nitpicky set commentary, espeed on gigas isn't doing much, and pdon really prefers magic room over cgas. Clangorous soul is just objectively worse than shell smash as well.

I think there's decent ideas and structure here, but there's also really big flaws with this team. Good luck!
 
TheRealArtisan said:
I played this format a few weeks ago with this team https://pokepast.es/58958e1cc146da05

The latest itteration is https://pokepast.es/0e2bf41d10027d77
Click to expand...
I don't like ClangSoul because of the HP cost making it really hard to click repeatedly, especially with LO, but with something like Leftovers+Victory Dance or Goggles+Shell Smash it could be very scary.

Mortal Spin isn't a great choice for hazard removal because of WGs, and Tidy Up also has the benefit of removing Sub(very important because of Shed Tail/BPass teams), so I'd consider swapping that out.

I don't know if I'd use Arceus-Ghost as your Ghost mon there over like Calyrex-Shadow, and it needs Improofed in some form or fashion, either by a MBounce/GaG Normal, a WG Arc forme, or a WG Grass like Ludicolo or Kartana.
 
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