Metagame Battlefields

[DragonLordDX]

Alright, I played for a while with the team given by Blitz, my thoughts about the tier have changed a little bit -

- Trick Room probably needs to go, I don’t think forcing literally every team to carry atleast two mons to handle it is fun, especially bcz full TR teams do no care about any other field effect other than
screens

- If TR gets axed ( which I think it will) Tailwind would probably have to be removed afterwards, since as far as I’m aware there’s no way to remove tailwind and permanent doubled speed across the board is DEFINITELY not balanced without TR around to punish it, I don’t think anyone can disagree with that

Those are really the only field effects I feel to be immediately problematic,(I dealt with dual screens in Trademarked, I can deal with them here), I saw some complains bout hazard stacks paired with Gravity and Magic Room, which are tough to go against for sure especially since Mr Well desgined Cheese Man blocks defog, but let’s remember that these teams are using Klefki for their strat, (which is definitely a pokemon)

Lets get to some of the pokemon I feel to be strong or even too strong

- Walking Wake is hilarious, it almost never used Protosynthesis to boost SpA in standard tiers since the speed boost is too important, well with permanent tailwind, u don’t need the speed booster, so you can fully pump everything into SpA, get a stat of 680 with Specs and the proto boost and just click Tera Water Hydro Steam which quite literally has 0 switch ins as none of the water absorb mons want to eat that meteor (I 2hkoed a Tera Dragon Solgaleo)

- Ogerpon H is like wake, on the other side of the spectrum, these two together form probably the most diabolically synergistic offensive core I’ve ever seen, how do u wall these? You can’t , that’s the answer
Atleast not without changing the weather

- I was angry at Torkoal for some time but I’m now realising that it’s actually super exploitable, Sand and Rain teams completely destroy it, it gets battered by rocks, that specs tera fire eruption is strong but not strong enough to make this guy reliable, it’s still required on TR since it’s the slowest TR attacker in the game (is anyone using offensive clodsire?) but yeah i don’t think it’s that crazy

- We will see Ursaluna until TR is allowed and then never again once it’s gone

So those are my Day 1 thoughts about Battlefields, I was definitely extremely disappointed when I first played this but pretty much every OM starts with such chaos (The auto crit Ogerpon H from Trademarked still haunts my sleep) we just have to weather (get it) the storm until all the problematic stuff is dealt with

Have a great day!

The Team in action https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9battlefields-2395196264

 

[Wittle Angel]

Alright, I played for a while with the team given by Blitz, my thoughts about the tier have changed a little bit -

- Trick Room probably needs to go, I don’t think forcing literally every team to carry atleast two mons to handle it is fun, especially bcz full TR teams do no care about any other field effect other than
screens

- If TR gets axed ( which I think it will) Tailwind would probably have to be removed afterwards, since as far as I’m aware there’s no way to remove tailwind and permanent doubled speed across the board is DEFINITELY not balanced without TR around to punish it, I don’t think anyone can disagree with that

Those are really the only field effects I feel to be immediately problematic,(I dealt with dual screens in Trademarked, I can deal with them here), I saw some complains bout hazard stacks paired with Gravity and Magic Room, which are tough to go against for sure especially since Mr Well desgined Cheese Man blocks defog, but let’s remember that these teams are using Klefki for their strat, (which is definitely a pokemon)

Lets get to some of the pokemon I feel to be strong or even too strong

- Walking Wake is hilarious, it almost never used Protosynthesis to boost SpA in standard tiers since the speed boost is too important, well with permanent tailwind, u don’t need the speed booster, so you can fully pump everything into SpA, get a stat of 680 with Specs and the proto boost and just click Tera Water Hydro Steam which quite literally has 0 switch ins as none of the water absorb mons want to eat that meteor (I 2hkoed a Tera Dragon Solgaleo)

- Ogerpon H is like wake, on the other side of the spectrum, these two together form probably the most diabolically synergistic offensive core I’ve ever seen, how do u wall these? You can’t , that’s the answer
Atleast not without changing the weather

- I was angry at Torkoal for some time but I’m now realising that it’s actually super exploitable, Sand and Rain teams completely destroy it, it gets battered by rocks, that specs tera fire eruption is strong but not strong enough to make this guy reliable, it’s still required on TR since it’s the slowest TR attacker in the game (is anyone using offensive clodsire?) but yeah i don’t think it’s that crazy

- We will see Ursaluna until TR is allowed and then never again once it’s gone

So those are my Day 1 thoughts about Battlefields, I was definitely extremely disappointed when I first played this but pretty much every OM starts with such chaos (The auto crit Ogerpon H from Trademarked still haunts my sleep) we just have to weather (get it) the storm until all the problematic stuff is dealt with

Have a great day!

Ful trik room teem ezpz 2 beet. Jus dont let them git trik room. Or jus undo it. It day 1, angel think u r being bit rash. Every wetha is talewind, but with a powa ¡¡BOOST!! and otha perks. U jus c lot of trik room 2day cus peepol r using 1st idea that cum 2 brain.


If trik room do becum problem, jus ban haterene. It the only reliabol setta.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Trick Room and Tailwind are now banned

I didn't take long to see that Trick Room just makes this a slight variation of twisted dimensions. Trick Room warps the metagame around it making normal teambuilding impossible. Most of the samples posted are clearly forced to run a niche trick room mon just for counter play, which is a clear sign of uncompetitiveness. We suspect, as most people have echoed already, that Tailwind would also be overbearing the second Trick Room is banned - so we've decided to ban them both in one go.

The threshold for banning a field condition is high, but Trick Room and Tailwind clearly blow right through that. Now that they are gone we will be keeping an eye of the rest of the threats previously mentioned.

Tagging dhelmise to implement

 

[Power Panpour]

I didn't take long to see that Trick Room just makes this a slight variation of twisted dimensions. Trick Room warps the metagame around it making normal teambuilding impossible. Most of the samples posted are clearly forced to run a niche trick room mon just for counter play, which is a clear sign of uncompetitiveness. We suspect, as most people have echoed already, that Tailwind would also be overbearing the second Trick Room is banned - so we've decided to ban them both in one go.

The threshold for banning a field condition is high, but Trick Room and Tailwind clearly blow right through that. Now that they are gone we will be keeping an eye of the rest of the threats previously mentioned.

I was just gonna say, what did we learn from Twisted Dimensions?
Say it with me, kids:
"Permanent Trick Room BAD!"

 

[Wrap Jesus]

Trick Room and Tailwind are now banned

I didn't take long to see that Trick Room just makes this a slight variation of twisted dimensions. Trick Room warps the metagame around it making normal teambuilding impossible. Most of the samples posted are clearly forced to run a niche trick room mon just for counter play, which is a clear sign of uncompetitiveness. We suspect, as most people have echoed already, that Tailwind would also be overbearing the second Trick Room is banned - so we've decided to ban them both in one go.

The threshold for banning a field condition is high, but Trick Room and Tailwind clearly blow right through that. Now that they are gone we will be keeping an eye of the rest of the threats previously mentioned.

Tagging dhelmise to implement

LOL
This quickban was incredibly obvious but very needed! Now we can play the tier as it was meant to be played and build cool interesting teams not restricted by the plight of TR existing.

That being said, catch me playing sand :))

 

[Concept]

I haven’t had the opportunity to play any games yet, but something that sticks out to me as concerning would be the accessibility to various weathers and terrains. Weather and terrains have gotten significantly stronger with power creep throughout the years and shouldn’t be something that can be instantly put into play and remain for the entirety of the game. I think forcing players to hard run the moves by restricting the weather abilities and potentially the terrain abilities would be a good course of action, otherwise the metagame devolves into whoever can get their weather setter or gimmick in more.

This set is a KEKW and should not be allowed. Allows you to just have permanent screens into a matchup without weather. I would also suggest banning Gholdengo or potentially suspecting it because permanently denying screens removal outside of niche choices like Mold Breaker Hawlucha is not it.

Ninetales-Alola @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Snow Warning
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Encore
- Aurora Veil
- Moonblast
- Imprison / Blizzard / Snowscape


I’ll be testing teams tonight.

 

[DragonLordDX]

Trick Room and Tailwind are now banned

I didn't take long to see that Trick Room just makes this a slight variation of twisted dimensions. Trick Room warps the metagame around it making normal teambuilding impossible. Most of the samples posted are clearly forced to run a niche trick room mon just for counter play, which is a clear sign of uncompetitiveness. We suspect, as most people have echoed already, that Tailwind would also be overbearing the second Trick Room is banned - so we've decided to ban them both in one go.

The threshold for banning a field condition is high, but Trick Room and Tailwind clearly blow right through that. Now that they are gone we will be keeping an eye of the rest of the threats previously mentioned.

Tagging dhelmise to implement

We appreciate the quick action
Permanent TR can never be good, twisted dimensions taught me that

 

[Lectrys]

This set is a KEKW and should not be allowed. Allows you to just have permanent screens into a matchup without weather. I would also suggest banning Gholdengo or potentially suspecting it because permanently denying screens removal outside of niche choices like Mold Breaker Hawlucha is not it.

Ninetales-Alola @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Snow Warning
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Encore
- Aurora Veil
- Moonblast
- Imprison / Blizzard / Snowscape


I’ll be testing teams tonight.

While I haven't been able to play this meta yet either, Gholdengo does not permanently deny screens removal at all - some of the teams posted in this thread carry Psychic Fangs (Gholdengo is not immune to that move), and Court Change can at least force their screens setter back in.

 

[k.r.o.b.]

rushing to play some tr on the ladder before the ban becomes effective... sad it did go. We saw weather being used as more than dumb speed abuse. Metagame was entirely different from twisted dimensions, with trick room reversing being permanent too and all the crazy gymmicks. I doubt weather wars the meta will be more interesting than this

 

[k.r.o.b.]

I share this TR offense #1 team as a relic of the trick room era.

Chandelure @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Infiltrator
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Fire Blast
- Tera Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Trick Room

Thanks to its mid tier speed, it's an excellent lead in trick room mirror matches, getting some early KOs over most TR leads and klefki, while being able to function well under TR against faster teams. Infiltrator is amazing in this meta, as screens are everywhere, and it's the main reason I chose to run chandelure. Tera fighting gives perfect coverage, enabling surprise KOs against ursaluna forms and tyranitar, and I used it quite frequently. Of course, trick room was needed as a 4th move, since this team heavily depends on it being up to function properly (even in mirror matches). Fire blast hits really hard under sun and can at least 2HKO a lot of fat mons.


Torkoal @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Drought
Level: 99
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Fire Blast
- Eruption
- Stealth Rock
- Solar Beam

TD players know how strong this is. Here it is more bearable thanks to wide guard blocking eruption. LV99 for mirror matches and clodsire. I rarely use stealth rock, but it's very nice to have it against magic room. Another mon I use tera on frequently, mainly to overpower SPD walls like galarian slowking.

Ursaluna @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Brick Break
- Facade
- Headlong Rush
- Supercell Slam

I wanted a TR sweeper/breaker with the ability to overcome screens. AV Tera fire heat crash copperajah was my first choice for the role, but it creates some serious offensive overlap with its inability to get past water types and suffered for the abundance of heavy mons. It was also quite weak. After rapidly trying psychic fangs cb gumshoos (too frail) and spiritomb (too weak) I tried ursaluna and found out raw power was what my team needed to break into high ladder. Brick break is preferred over hammer arm, making Ursaluna function as a breaker more than as a sweeper, as I only have 2 screens remover. Supercell slam is for alomomola. Tera stellar is very versatile, adding the extra KOing power whenever needed

Hatterene @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Mystical Fire

The main trick room setter, frequently used as lead against non-TR teams. It almost certainly ensures that trick room gets up (bar imprison). Tera steel is mainly against tachyon cutter, and rarely used.

Compared to other mons having TR and screens, it doesn't have a strong 4th move. Mystical fire is the best option not to make it too much of a fodder (and actually hitting quite hard under the sun). I used dazzling gleam before, but it made hattarene complete fodder against wide guard

Ditto @ Iron Ball
Ability: Imposter
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Transform

The main star of the team. A non choice-locked ditto is amazing both in offensive and defensive roles. It relies on trick room staying up, but can also contribute to the fight by becoming a third setter in a pinch. It becomes extremely luck based under magic room (maybe I could make it lv99).

Conkeldurr @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Defog
- Facade
- High Horsepower
- Close Combat

This set serves basically the same purpose as ursaluna (having the exact same coverage and tera) with some unique characteristics, mainly its lower speed and emphasis on fighting type attacks. Usually the pairing works well, as they can work to support each other, but magic room and galarian weezing weaken both of them.

 

[Cuddly]

Trick Room and Tailwind are now banned

I didn't take long to see that Trick Room just makes this a slight variation of twisted dimensions. Trick Room warps the metagame around it making normal teambuilding impossible. Most of the samples posted are clearly forced to run a niche trick room mon just for counter play, which is a clear sign of uncompetitiveness. We suspect, as most people have echoed already, that Tailwind would also be overbearing the second Trick Room is banned - so we've decided to ban them both in one go.

The threshold for banning a field condition is high, but Trick Room and Tailwind clearly blow right through that. Now that they are gone we will be keeping an eye of the rest of the threats previously mentioned.

Tagging dhelmise to implement

It’s been over 17 hours and I’m still seeing Trick Room and Tailwind.
That’s why I say it should have been banned from the start. The metagame is unplayable and we still have to deal with Screens and all the no reason to unban unbanned-Ubers.
Do you think you could pick up the pace of fixing this Metagame before August?

 

[lavatwocan]

Hope the TR ban goes into effect quicker, the metagame will finally be playable and not just TR into Hazardstack Stall

 

[Giagantic]

It’s been over 17 hours and I’m still seeing Trick Room and Tailwind.
That’s why I say it should have been banned from the start. The metagame is unplayable and we still have to deal with Screens and all the no reason to unban unbanned-Ubers.
Do you think you could pick up the pace of fixing this Metagame before August?

So your idea is to ban the fundamental concept and mechanic that the metagame is founded on? Sorry but that just sounds silly, instead people should adapt to the flaws present through whatever means.

 

[Concept]

While I haven't been able to play this meta yet either, Gholdengo does not permanently deny screens removal at all - some of the teams posted in this thread carry Psychic Fangs (Gholdengo is not immune to that move), and Court Change can at least force their screens setter back in.

There’s a difference between being forced to run hazard removal and screen removal. I ended up playing a pretty successful run after work last night going 8-0, but I can generally say running a screen breaking move on nearly any Pokémon is just not viable. The only real exception to this I found was Solgaleo and nichely a Tauros form on weather. Because of the impact of screens in the format spinning is significantly worse than the other removal options within the tier. Gholdengo forces you to run bad moves which is not healthy for a meta, Cinderace can temporarily change fields, but there is nothing stopping the opponent from preserving their setters and just getting them back up again later. Maushold is just too frail which isn’t exactly the best as a hazard removal mon. I’ve been testing out Ability Shield Dengo to prevent NGas Weezing from removing screens and it’s been working pretty well.

It’s been over 17 hours and I’m still seeing Trick Room and Tailwind.
That’s why I say it should have been banned from the start. The metagame is unplayable and we still have to deal with Screens and all the no reason to unban unbanned-Ubers.
Do you think you could pick up the pace of fixing this Metagame before August?

Why do you keep posting here if you disagree with the metagame so harshly. If you don’t like it, just don’t play it, nobody is forcing you to play a game you don’t like. The tierleaders have done all they can to implement the current bans, Smogon is a volunteer based community and the ones who actually implement tier updates whenever they can.

 

[VannAccessible]

Cuddly, with respect, please calm down. You are being pretty unreasonable. :/

I get the frustration, but attacking people isn’t going to move things faster. New OMs are rarely QB happy, as the current policy necessitates the burden of ladder playtesting to determine what’s broken. This isn’t an issue with this format but OM policy as a whole, and if you have an issue with that, maybe you should take a peak at what InkyDarkBird wrote in OM Suggestions the other day, and support that idea.

Honestly, it is absolutely commendable how quickly council acted on TR on Day 1, as well as taking initiative on Tailwind before it became a similar problem. Inky put in the pull request yesterday, and Dhelmise already merged it. All that’s left is waiting for the server to reboot, which can take a few days. Everything has already been done on the human side. Be patient.

——-

My Day 1 Impressions

I’m personally enjoying this meta! As a designated TR enthusiast, I can safely say the ever spammable combo of Hatterene + Torkal is still broken.

Here’s the team I piloted to roughly #30 on ladder yesterday in my lunch break before I had to go back to work:

Trick Room Sun Feat Physical Volcanion


Physical Volcanion w/ Brick Break goes brrr and provides nice extra Rain and Screens counterplay, and the surprise factor makes it especially potent.

Sickest of games vs Inky: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9battlefields-2395147680

I will be glad to see Trick Room go, even though I personally thought people can and are adapting to it. Ultimately, the dance of setting it and unsetting it or just spamming Taunt or using Imprison is annoying. (Also, why all the Twisted Dimension shade? TR was a static element there. *sobs*)

————

Here’s some other balancing thoughts I’ve had. I feel like action on these may be premature at this point, but at least worth consideration and discussion.

While Trick Room is undoubtedly powerful, perma-screens are meta defining, and to a lesser extent terrains, while hazard stack is actually dominating ladder, as illustrated by sockperson and his many alts peaking. These teams do not require Trick Room, as the playstyle can fully adapt to the speed inversion, and even take advantage of it with naturally slow mons like Ting-Lu and Garganacl. Dengo prevents the counterplay of Defog from removing ALL of these elements, and feels even more oppressive than it usually does in standard play. While there is some counterplay in Spin Torkoal and Neutralizing Gas Weezing and more niche stuff like Decidueye-H or Talonflame, I would suggest Dengo be placed on the Watchlist and considered for a ban. (Also, Ability Shield is even a thing for Weezing, so as good as Gweezy is, it can also thud hard.)

Quick Guard and Wide Guard may not seem overbearing in the moment, but after the current bans, I anticipate they will be. The counterplay to these field effects is absolutely niche and the very definition of MU fishy (Hoopa is…. ok, but Feint? lol). Quick Guard will also completely removes priority as counterplay to the weather and terrain speed abilities with are bound to improve considerably post TR ban. Wide Guard is less problematic, but neutralizing moves like Surf, Make It Rain, Expanding Force, Dazzling Gleam, Eruption and sound moves for a full game doesn’t seem especially healthy either. (This also affects Earthquake, but no one should be running Earthquake regardless, bc Grassy Terrain).

The Ubers that most benefit from field effects, or can bypass screens. While screens inhibit some of them, they also enable them too. Post TR, these guys will be fully unleashed and potentially very problematic.

——-

Edit: Concept sniped my brain! Look at those time stamps. Ah well. :D

 

[Cuddly]

Why do you keep posting here if you disagree with the metagame so harshly. If you don’t like it, just don’t play it, nobody is forcing you to play a game you don’t like. The tierleaders have done all they can to implement the current bans, Smogon is a volunteer based community and the ones who actually implement tier updates whenever they can.

I was actually interested in the concept, but it’s a shame since we have to deal with a bunch of things that clearly should have been banned initially or should have not been Unbanned to begin with.
Like imagine wanting to play RU, but the RU council decided to let Miraidon be legal specifically for RU, to test things out or prove a point. Oh and not only that but they’re adding Gen 8 Zacian, Mega Ray, Calyrex-S, Necrozma-DM, and why not Eternatus-Eternamax.
If you wanted to just play good old regular RU, you can’t because it’s filled with Pokemon pretty obviously well above everything else in RU.
So now you got to wait several days to play RU again because they are gonna have to quick ban Miraidon and co then also wait even more for the bans to be active on Showdown.
So yeah sorry if I’m a bit frustrated after metaphorically being kicked in the balls for wanting to try something that sounded interesting.

 

[Endrism]

Opinions playing on Day 1/2 from some random dude:

Trick Room is stupid, like mega stupid. I get people have problems with Perma screens, but my biggest issue is that you are either running Trick Room, or you are losing. If you do not have a pokemon with Trick Room and you fight a trick room team, your likelyhood of winning plummets. Plus even if you have Trick Room, that means you need to spend an entire turn using a negative priority move just to bring the game back to neutral. Absolutely ridiculous and Im waiting for it to get banned on showdown itself. I don't think Tailwind is nearly as bad, but I can see the argument for it getting the boot as well.

Reflect, Light Screen, and Aurora Veil are great, but I don't think they are overwhelming. Brick Break and Psychic Fangs seem like they have the same problem as Trick Room, but in this case at least you can do some kind of chip damage while breaking screens or a bit more if you are a good physical attacker. Plus Defog also gets rid of hazards so using it to get rid of screens too is very nice.

Terrains + Seeds is always a fun combo. Not too crazy, but fun to play. Definitely have to compete with other terrains like Grassy Terrain Glidespam, Psyspam, or Misty counterplays. Surprisingly I haven't really seen electric terrain despite Quark Drive being a thing. I've been running a Grassy Terrain team with Grassy Seed Calm Mind Hatterene that has been running house on teams and with negative nature 0IV Speed, it can be used as a psuedo check to Trick Room. Thank GOD Sneasler is banned here because if not it would easily be one the biggest threat in the meta with Unburden Dire Claw BS.

Weather is doing exactly what it was expected to do. The ultimate weather wars is crazy. Sun is abusing Protosynthesis and surprise Chlorophyll users, Rain is spamming swift swim and crazy high power water moves, Snow is setting Veil and letting Bax, Kyurem, and I've even seen Cetitan/Beartic having some fun.... Sand... exists... I guess.

One of my favorite things to use right now is EASILY Cinderace. Court Change is HILARIOUS in this meta, as it is a way to effectively remove Tailwind by bringing it to your own side, while also taking permascreens and launching all those hazards back at them. Plays a really good role in this metagame as a hazard remover and excellent speedy pivot while also being able to deal with Gholdengo who is normally the one getting in the way of defoggers and rapid spinners.

Funny meta concept that I think will drastically improve in the absence of Trick Room.

 

[sockperson]

https://pokepast.es/3aa96af1e1a9a989
got this hazard stack team to peak at #1 for day 2
Sets screens and blocks hazard/screen removal with Gholdengo + Ting-Lu
Tera Dragon Garganacl to beat Rain/Sun teams

 

[VannAccessible]

Mr. and Mrs. Smogon… congratulations. You have a healthy baby meta.

 

[Styles2You@Showdown]

My delusion has reached a new ALL TIME HIGH!

when theres delusion theres hope - me... 2025

So basically wonder room court change shenanigans sounded funny to me to just annoy screens users and then brick break if they try setting up again, this team is impractical, and probably bad, but hey its pokemon it doesn't hurt to have fun!

The voices in my head labled "The Agency" spoke this absolute mound of ideas mangled together for one team into my mind, and here we are!

https://pokepast.es/5a822d8941fc0b01

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9battlefields-2396385213

I was like half asleep when I made this, so don't argue with me about mixed chomp and valiant along with fling unburden drifblim. In my defense I simply charred my steak because I enjoy it overcooked! (please dont fight me im a medium rare type of guy im joking.)

NO I will not seriously playtest this team! YOU do it!

And yes the next team I post will be bringing back metrenome grimmsnarl and AV bellibolt, you're welcome.

If you have any bad opinions about this team, humbly and kindly seebow as the modern day children say.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Welcome Clas and VannAccessible to the council!

The council is currently discussing a potential quickban slate following the Trick Room and Tailwind bans, with particular attention on standout threats like Flutter Mane, Urshifu-Rapid-Strike, Gholdengo, and Ogerpon-Hearthflame. Espathra has also emerged as a possible concern. We're evaluating whether these Pokémon are unhealthy for the metagame and considering next steps. Field conditions and specific counterplay mechanics are also on the radar but not an immediate focus. Quick- and Wide guard have been discussed, but as of now we're taking a wait and see approach - given the infancy of the meta and high ban threshold for the field conditions. Magic Room has not been a concern, as the archetype might relies more on Gholdengo - which is definitely a concern. Feel free to share any pokemon you would like to see discussed amongst the council, and we will take take a stance on it.

Thank you

 

[Toxtection]

Been having decent success with this team:

There's literally nothing special about it, you just ignore/disrupt whatever the opponent sets up and click strong moves with strong pokemon.

Terapagos can remove weather/terrain with tera and screens are pretty useless because every pokemon besides Terapagos has some way of countering them:

Urshifu has Wicked Blow,
Meowscarada has Flower Trick,
Dragapult has Infiltrator,
Cinderace has Court Change,
Flutter Mane has Taunt/Sunny Day

A few moves can be swapped out: Urshifu's U-turn, Flutter Mane's Taunt/Sunny Day (keep at least one), Cinderace's Will-O-Wisp almost never got clicked

 

[BriefMarigold4]

So here we are.

Now that the meta has started to settle after the ban of Trick Room and Tailwind, it feels like the teams are overall more varied now... with a few exceptions.
There are many things I'd like to adress, but I will first start with a Pokemon that I have zero clue for why it was even released.

Tis mf. This absolute goober. In what mind would it fit that this cutie patooie would be more balanced in a meta with permanent screens, permanent sun and permanent grassy terrain? It's by far one of the faster Pokemon in the tier, and you aren't safe even if you outspeed it thanks to Grassy Glide. Its other options for a more powerful Grass STAB are also incredible, except in this tier it gets a third great option. Power Whip is good but innacurate, Wood Hammer is reliable but wears you down quickly. Solar Blade though? Slightly stronger than the other two with perfect accuracy and no drawback (unless the opposin team has a weather that isn't sun). And speaking about Sun, Ivy Cudgel is an absolute beast with that weather on, with Tera Fire +1 being able to 2HKO most of everything in the tier INCLUDING bulky resists. Mold Breaker also means it ignores every Unaware answer to set up, as well as Multiscale, Flash Fire, Heatproof and Thick Fat. It even ignores Sap Sipper for stuff like Shell Armor Hisuian Goodra going Tera Water. And at first glance it would seem that a fire type or a dragon type would be enough to handle her. But as if her sheer damage output wasn't enough to handle both, she also has access to Stomping Tantrum and Play Rough. She's so unbearably hard to deal with, and by far one of the most problematic Pokemon around.

Some other Pokemon I'd like to mention are Espathra and Flutter Mane, but that mainly comes from a few things in the tier enabling them heavily.

First off, Quick Guard needs to go. It's absurd how it completely negates all forms of priority for the entire team with no way to remove it besides Hoopa-O or Feint. It's so inconvinient to remove, but without it, it'd be nearly impossible to revenge kill things like speed boosted Flutt or Espathra. Pokemon like Scizor, Rillaboom, Dragonite, Kingambit, Raging Bolt and dare I say even Palafin are all extremely limited, if not downright invalidated for a few cases, the moment Quick Guard goes up. It provides way too much value for Offense teams for the excrusiatingly few ways there are to work around it. It just needs to go. Both Urshifu forms can bypass Quick Guard with Sucker Punch and Aqua Jet respectively, but that's still only one (or two?) Pokemon, and it doesn't remove the condition for the rest of the team.

Another case that I've seen being way too dominant in the metagame. Screens. Specifically, Reflect and Light Screen. I've heard that people are thinking about banning Gholdengo, rather than adressing Screens themselves, as they form part of the very scarce group that completely defines the metagame. But I want to say, banning Gholdengo will do nothing. This already happened back in trademark; Gholdengo wasn't a problem there, and yet Screens were absolutely rampant and nearly mandatory for any good team. I think it's exactly the same here.
So Gholdengo goes away? No problem, people will just go use either Tera Ghost or Tera Dark Hatterene. Or they will just start running Taunt or Encore on their screen setters. Or maybe they will run Sableye or Spiritomb, who are seeing a bizarre amount of usage in ladder. Ceruledge right now also completely blocks both Brick Break and Raging Bull from Blaze Tauros, but same goes for any tera ghost Flash Fire user. Not even Aqua Tauros is safe, with water immune abilities belonging to excellent Pokemon. Hell, I mysef back a Tera Ghost NGas Galarian Weezing for whoever decides to bring Scrappy Brick Break Hisui Decidueye. Poitn is, people will go to hell and back to keep their sceens up, which will lead to everyone else going to hell and back for ways to destroy opposing screens while maintaining their own. Reflect and Light Screen are also all incredibly diverse, belonging to a wide variety of Pokemon, some with key immunities to certain types or status conditions. It's just too much to prepare for.

I do want to say that although this is true for Reflect and Light Screen, Aurora Veil stands being non-problematic and fully balanced. For starters, every single Aurora Veil user besides Smeargle is an Ice Type, none of which have an immunity to Brick Break, Psychic Fangs, Defog or Raging Bull. The only exception is Frosslass, who has an imunity to Brick Break, but that one lacks a key component to make a good Veil setter. You can only set up Veil if Snow is up, which is quite difficult in a meta as weather oriented as this one, with Sun, Rain and Sand setters left and righ; fitting both Snowscape and Aurora Veil in the same slot is downright trolling. So, that means that the only TRUE Veil Setters are the Snow Warning users, which there are only 2 of: Alolan Ninetales and Abomasnow. There is also the option of Slowking paired with a separate Aurora Veil user, but that requires 2 Pokemon. Aurora Veil is overall far easier to prevent, and far easier to remove, as well as extremely more convinient to prepare for in teambuilding.

I also want to quickly adress Wide Guard. Originally, I was against this move. When I used it, it seemed obscene and absurd. There have been far too many instances when it has come into play. However, when compared to Quick Guard, I never truly felt all that negatively impacted by it, even when I was forced to swap out Make It Rain on Gholdengo or Blizzard on A9. In fact, looking at it from a wider perspective, it sort of feels like it leaves a positive impact for the metagame even when it's not present in either team fighting? It passively reduces the overall power level of the metagame.
The move blocks an incredibly wide selection of moves, but I'll name the most relevant ones: Earthquake, Discharge, Boomburst, Lava Plume, Explosion / Self-Destruct, Misty Explosion (at least before TR ban), Sludge Wave, Surf, Bleakwind Storm, Blizzard, Clanging Scales, Dazzling Gleam, Dragon Energy, Diamond Storm, Eruption, Fiery Wrath, Heat Wave, Hyper Voice, Make It Rain, Matcha Gotcha, MORTAL SPIN, Rock Slide, Sandsear Storm, Springtide Storm, Water Spount, Wildbolt Storm, Psychic Terrain Expanding Force and Tera Terastal Tera Starstorm.
Of course, there are a lot of Pokemon who are negatively impacted by this a lot. Iron Moth suddenly lost its only Poison STAB and a very important coverage move in Dazzling Gleam. Gholdengo can no longer spam Make It Rain while simultaneously preventing more than half of both hazard and screens removal. Bloodmoon losing access to Hyper Voice is, believe it or not, surprisingly relevant. Same goes for Hisuian Zoroark. Indeedee is quite literally rendered useless, as is every single Expanding Force spammer. And with being such a potent strategy, it's nice for teams to be able to defensivelt handle Earthquake and Sandsear Storm, forcing physical attackers to use the slightly weaker,, slightly innacurate contact move High Horsepower (or worse, Stomping Tantrum), and making Lando-I lower its power output slightly by having to use Earth Power and Sludge Bomb instead. Ursaluna and Great Tusk remain not caring at all, however.

Where I'm going with this is that it's a move that is easy to slot in a team and very often will see use, but it's also not a godlike catch-all like Quick Guard is. It's also not as unbearable to work around when fighting it, as the Pokemon who are rendered completely useless because of it are scarce., and most of the moves affected by it have accessible, non-intrussive alternatives that won't drastically affect how a Pokemon plays.

R.I.P Psychic Spam thought, you will not be missed.

TL;DR
Ban Reflect, Light Screen and Quick Guard; Aurora Veil and Wide Guard are fine and goated.

 

[BriefMarigold4]

Okay, meta rambling done, team posting time.

A9

Ninetales-Alola @ Mental Herb / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Snow Warning
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 144 HP / 132 SpA / 232 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Aurora Veil
- Mist / Encore / Nasty Plot
- Moonblast
- Freeze-Dry

EVs outspeed Iron Treads and live an Adamant Choice Band Close Combat from Urshifu. Mist might seem like an extremely odd choice, but it has its reason. As the team uses Sticky Web, opposing Web setters are a massive problem, as is Cinderace. Mist prevents such teams from being a problem, as I'm not used to constantly remove Webs with Spin, or be forced to use Defog and remove them on both sides. Encore is also good, but I digress. Nasty Plot is the third evil option.
Seeing that Ninetales is a Pokemon that I will absolutely never Twr unless a absutely necessary, I decided to give it a Tera that I will only use in one very specific occasion: Tera Normal, blocking Phantom Force from Dragapult (or other ghosts) to prevent screen removal.
Alas, its main reason for the team is screens, but it also provides much needed weather control, keeping a neutral environment and limiting weather-based recovery. Nasty Plot sets are also good at being win-cons I guess.

spider-spider

Araquanid @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Wide Guard
- Sticky Web
- Liquidation
- Leech Life

Araquanid is an interesting case. No, it was not a missclick, it IS missing the one thing that makes it absurdly powerful, but why?
Namely, Aqua Tauros' Raging Bull, as well as its Brick Break. It also walls Watershifu's Surging Strikes, which when paired with Choice Band, Rain and Tera Water, would absolutely demolish it otherwise. Again, Tera Ghost enseres it is safe against Close Combat while providing a neat U-Turn resistance. Of course, that Tera would just block
Overall its biggest use in the team is Sticky Web, but Wide Guard proves itself useful in most games too. It also partially blocks screen and hazard removal, with Water Absorb blocking water Raging Bull, Wide Guard blocking Mortal Spin, and the occasional Tera Ghost blocking Brick Break and Rapid Spin.

The Meta Monkey

Rillaboom @ Miracle Seed
Ability: Grassy Surge
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 156 HP / 104 Atk / 248 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Wood Hammer
- Grassy Glide
- Brick Break / Knock Off

This rilla is a bit outside the norm. For starters, it is incredibly fast at near max speed, and quite bulky with 156 EVs in HP. This leaves it with only 104 EVs in Attack without a nature boost. At first, it'd seem like this Rillaboom would be lacking in the offensivr departament, but one could not be more wrong. Between Grassy Terrain, Miracle Seed, Swords Dance and the occasional Tera Grass, it can blow past teams in an instant.
Brick Break is generally useful to remove screens and is overall nice coverage for a Grass type, but Knock Off has proven to be more useful due to its ability to remove items like Ability Shield from Gholdengo or Hatterene (or Hisuian Decidueye). Gholdengo in particular is really nice yo hit even if screens are up.
The EVs are for Urshifu, being able to outspeed Adamant max speed while also living a Close Combat from Choice Band Jolly (or, alternatively, a critical from a Choice Scaff set) without screens up.
Overall, Rillaboom provides excellent damage and terrain control, as well as team wide passive recovery, screens or removal and speed control thanks to Grassy Glide.

Mr. Doug Dimmadome

Weezing-Galar @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 240 HP / 156 Def / 112 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Will-O-Wisp
- Strange Steam
- Clear Smog

Weezing's use should be immediately clear. It's one of the very few defoggers who can ignore Gholdengo's Good As Gold. However, it's also an excellent answer for Urshifu-Single and Meowscarada, with its EVs ensuring Tera Grass Adamant Choice Band Flower Trick is not a 2HKO in Grassy Terrain (accounting for the recovery, of course).
Of course, it's a nice physical wall with good screen and hazard removal. But it also has Wisp to deter physical attackers and Clear Smog to cancel setup. Tera Ghost blocks Rapid Spin and Brick Break, even from Scrappy Hisuian Decidueye (unless it's holding an ability shield). Neutralizing Gas also means it can take on the Infiltrator users quite well.

Golden Joe

Gholdengo @ Ability Shield
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 232 HP / 100 Def / 64 SpA / 112 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Flash Cannon
- Shadow Ball
- Recover

The one, the only, coming straight from YOUR house, he's always groovy, and never gloopy. You can't get this from an egg!
Gholdengo is one of the ultimate hazard and screen removal deniers. Defog? Nuh uh, and Ability Shield ensures not even Galarian Weezing is safe. Rapid Spin? Nah. Mortal Spin? Nope. Brick Break? He's made of metal, not bricks. Psychic Fangs? Boom, have a Tera Dark at ye. What a guy.
EVs ensure it is not OHKOd by Jolly ScarfShifu's Wicked Blow. Speed outpaces 4 speed Solgaleo. Rest went into special attack.
No Make It Rain because Wide Guard is too good not to account for.
Ghold is a jack of all trades. Physical wall, hazard removal denier, screen removal denier, status absorber, win condition, and being an awesome guy.

My Wife

Ceruledge @ Maranga Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 240 HP / 20 Atk / 248 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Bitter Blade
- Brick Break
- Poltergeist

Ceruledge @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 120 HP / 140 Atk / 248 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bitter Blade
- Brick Break
- Shadow Sneak

This one has two different sets that I swap between often. The bulkier set is a lot more dependant on Screens, which it can thankfully keep up with an immunity to Brick Break and Fire Raging Bull. Tera Dark can also come in clutch to grab KOs against Pokemon coming in for a bite with Psychic Fangs. Maranga Berry is quite an interesting item, ir mainly comes up under screens when baiting in special Water or Ghost attacks from the likes of Dragapult while popping a Tera. Tera Dark also means it's quite effective at dealing with Chandelure as an infiltrator user, and it can even tank Dragapult's Specs Draco Meteor after a spdef boost. Poltergeist was chosen over Shadow Sneak due to the low attack investment paired with Bulk Ip's slow build up, which means Shadow Sneak will very rarely deal damage at all.
The other set has Colbur Berry to take non-band shifu and most Knock Off spammers by surprise. Everything else should be self explanatory. Either way, both sets are amazing at abusing Brick Break, as it pairs nicely with Ghost STAB, which also means it scares off any opposing ghost types trying to switch in. Bitter Blade is absolutely amazing at keeping it healthy and rolling.
Overall, extremely potent win condition, screen removal AND screen removal denier, with the ability to absorb burns and sometimes pack priority.

That is all folks, I'll see you next Tuesday.

 

[VannAccessible]

Espathra, Flutter Mane, Gholdengo, Ogerpon-Hearthflame, Urshifu and Urshifu-Rapid Strike have been banned!


No action on Landorus-Incarnate.​

Posting with Tier Leader Imperator Romanum ‘s permission, the results of our council’s second tiering action vote are in!

Also please welcome BriefMarigold4 to the council! We are happy to have her join us!

Subject​	Imperator Romanum​	Snaquaza​	Clas​	VannAccessible​	BriefMarigold4	Result​
​	BAN​	ABS​	BAN​	BAN​	DNB​	3-1-1 BAN​
​	BAN​	ABS​	BAN​	BAN​	BAN​	4-1-0 BAN​
​	BAN​	ABS​	BAN​	BAN​	DNB​	3-1-1 BAN​
​	BAN​	ABS​	BAN​	DNB​	DNB​	2-1-2 DNB​
​	BAN​	ABS​	BAN​	BAN​	BAN​	4-1-0 BAN​
(SS)​	BAN​	ABS​	ABS​	BAN​	BAN​	3-2-0 BAN​
(RS)​	BAN​	ABS​	BAN​	BAN​	BAN​	4-1-0 BAN​

Snaquaza has abstained from this vote.

Reasonings

Ban - The kooky ostrich is as unreactable as ever. It benefits greatly from perma-screens, Quick Guard, terrain, seeds and malleable Tera coverage allowing it to goob a check. Ting-Lu can Whirlwind it out, but may still lose in last man standing scenarios based on its Tera type. The truest answer is Tera Dark Unaware Clodsire, and that is extremely specific.

Ban - Unresisted STABs, perma-Sun, good Sp. Def, Calm Mind, Taunt. Priority is inconsistent. What more could you want in a sweeper?

Ban - While Balance and Stall fell off a bit post TR-ban, at the end of the day screens are very spammable and Defog should be free in this meta as counterplay, pure and simple. Dengo enables too much cancer, and the meta should be more dynamic and manageable and healthy without it. If additional means limiting screens prove necessary in the future, we may address them again later.

No Action / DNB - The most controversial vote, split evenly 2 to 2. Thus, Landorus-Incarnate’s legality stands as of now, although it will be assessed in the future, hopefully with a more conclusive vote

While undoubtedly a very powerful breaker, strong against balance, and likely forcing a KO every time it comes in on something slower against offense teams lacking Light Screen up, its speed is nothing to write home about.

Individuals DNB takes:

Vann: “Strong against Balance? Definitely. Against offense? Ehhh… I think the combo of mid speed against offense, being priority weak, Light Screen, having Wide Guard invalidating Sand Sear, hating Magic Room, Rain, Snow, Sun, defensive Tera’s, and fat mons like AV Alomom, Slowking and Araquanid provide adequate counterplay across all playstyles. I don’t think Lando is gatekept by these other Ubers either.”

Mari: “I may be lacking proper games against it, but I just haven't really seen it pop off like many people say it does. Of course yada yada Wide Guard means it can't reliably run Sandsear Storm and Sludge Wave so it's slightly weaker than usual, that much is obvious. The thing is, Gravity, although it does negate ground type immunities, it also makes it extremely vulnerable to Sticky Webs. Nasty Plot sets are weak to Unaware Pokemon thanks to screens, it doesn't do well into any weather other than sand, electric surge enables the quark drive users, it's quite vulnerable to Grassy Glide, and it doesn't have enough speed or bulk to handle PsySpam even behind screens. Magic Room also affects it decently enough. It just either misses out on the benefits or gets downright negatively affected by the conditions that the metagame enables.”

Ban - Sun and Grassy Terrain, Play Rough for Dragons, or Stomping Terrain for opposing Fire. Mold Breaker and Tera = quite dumb. Off it goes!

(Single Strike) Ban - This thing is the most spammed Uber at high ladder, and it’s easy to see why. It rolls right through Screens, can hit Fairies with Poison Jab, Sucker Punch through Quick Guard and even pivot on its rare checks with U-Turn.

(Rapid Strike) Ban - Rain + Tera Water + Band = unblockable outside Water Absorb. Too much!

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9battlefields-2396026358

Edit:

Pinging dhelmise for implementation!

Hot diggity, that was fast. Bans are implemented.