I presume it's an Ubers thing. I couldn't find a current thread for BW2 Ubers, but Zekrom's analysis seems to suggest it's at least decent for the tier already.
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Pokémon Movepool Oddities & Explanations
- Thread starter Kurona
- Start date
Typhlosion and Earth Power
Aurorus and Power Gem
Poliwrath and Dream Eater
Lumineon and Quiver Dance
Tapu Lele and Quiver Dance
Gastrodon and Shell Smash
Garchomp and Fly
Suicune and Aqua Ring (as a regular move, not an event move)
Lapras and Solarbeam (in all games except RBY and LGPE)
What do all these pairings have in common? The fact that the Pokemon doesn't learn the associated move is stupid, that is all
(Especially the last example since Solarbeam is still a TM in GSC and USUM, meaning you can transfer a Solarbeam Lapras to those games and not reteach the move if it forgets)
Also not something that really bugs me but I saw someone suggest that Solrock and Lunatone should be able to learn Sunsteel Strike and Moongeist Beam and honestly I'm down for it, it'd be cool thematically and it's not like it'd make either Pokemon significantly better than they currently are.
Aurorus and Power Gem
Poliwrath and Dream Eater
Lumineon and Quiver Dance
Tapu Lele and Quiver Dance
Gastrodon and Shell Smash
Garchomp and Fly
Suicune and Aqua Ring (as a regular move, not an event move)
Lapras and Solarbeam (in all games except RBY and LGPE)
What do all these pairings have in common? The fact that the Pokemon doesn't learn the associated move is stupid, that is all
(Especially the last example since Solarbeam is still a TM in GSC and USUM, meaning you can transfer a Solarbeam Lapras to those games and not reteach the move if it forgets)
Also not something that really bugs me but I saw someone suggest that Solrock and Lunatone should be able to learn Sunsteel Strike and Moongeist Beam and honestly I'm down for it, it'd be cool thematically and it's not like it'd make either Pokemon significantly better than they currently are.
Gastrodon doesn't have a shell to smash, the pattern on its back is just as squishy as the rest of it.
What? Learning a sleep move doesn't automatically equal learning Dream Eater, none of the mushroom Pokémon get it.
I mean, Entei doesn't get it either. Volcano themeing doesn't automatically get a Pokémon Earth Power.
Quiver Dance is pretty much restricted to actual butterfly/moth Pokémon or ones that are explicitly based on dancing (Bellossom, regular Lilligant, and Oricorio). A butterflyfish or vaguely butterfly inspired tiki creature are probably a bit too far. Also Quiver Dance Tapu Lele would be kind of broken.
In fairness to this one it's noted that it doesn't have a proper shell anymore. It's just vestigial plate cells now.
& turns out Shellos name in japanese is even meant to reference not having it anymore. The English one is probably ALSO meant to do that (Shell + loss) but "los" doesn't read as "lost", personally...
Garchomp not getting Fly is honestly even dumber now since SV explicitly shows it flying around instead of it just being relegated to the Pokedex and external materials.
So with this one I was actually taking my thinking from the fact that Gastrodon and Cloyster are apparently closely related (if you want to believe the Pokedex, which is always a foolhardy thing to do)
Regardless I'm all for being a bit loose with move theming and I don't think you need an actual, literal shell to smash - Torterra barely does, and Barbaracle is a stretch. Fair point on the Shellos naming, but Gastrodon having a vestigial plate is more than enough to justify getting the move even via breeding IMO. Egg moves generally are about giving something a looser, tangential ability it could feasibly have with some outside help, after all.
Sure, but Poliwrath has always had a hypnosis theming - much more so than, say, Ninetales, Gulpin, Abra, Exeggutor, or Starmie. It learns Psychic and Psywave and various mind/willpower-focused moves like Mind Reader and Encore, I don't think Dream Eater is at all out of the question for it.
Literally the point of my post was "it would be fitting for them", so yes I would say Entei should probably learn it too.
There are countless examples of a Pokemon getting a move based on word association or theming. Being a butterflyfish didn't stop Lumineon from getting U-Turn, Silver Wind, Signal Beam, Air Slash, Air Cutter, Tailwind, and even Roost in L:A. I've long thought it could do with something more to set it apart from being a generic fish.
I am a big proponent of Lumineon getting Quiver Dance, though I would also argue it kind of sets itself apart from being a generic fish by its butterfly-esque movepool. Unfortunately its stats are extremely and detrimentally "generic fish."
To add to the convo, I think it's crazy that Drowzee and Hypno have only been able to learn Dream Eater via level up in LGPE (which has other unique move choices). At this point I'm convinced that Game Freak are deliberately not giving the line Dream Eater as some kind of in-joke.
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It could also just be a "why this move but not this one?" thing. I'm sure more than 2/3 of the move oddities noted in this thread are for moves the Mon would never really benefit from using, but are odd exclusions in concept.
Also this one isn't QUITE an oddity specific to the Pokemon but it bothers me: the Gible line is one of 3 Pokemon whose Materials are used for TM100 (Dragon Dance), yet it is the only one of the 3 lines that cannot actually learn the move, from the TM or otherwise.
Watch them get it in ZA
Sv also has had several other TM oddities, and some other movepool oddities for that matter, over its lifetime so this does seem like another for the pile.
That was a very good oddity that's now official as it's everywhere in VGC
Metal Claw is actually available to Charizard via Mirror Herb since it's also an egg move.
Yeah but it can't learn it via TM for some reason
At least several of them were fixed or otherwise addressed in later updates, but alas we have cases like Magcargo where the Pokémon has such little popularity in general that it was completely overlooked when fixing these discrepancies.
Then there are the truly odd cases where a Pokémon lost a move between SV updates, as I just learned yesterday was the case with Miraidon. Apparently its level 49 move Power Gem was removed between two updates, leaving it with a gap between level up moves that’s not shared with Koraidon. It can still learn the move by TM, but it’s a baffling inconsistency nonetheless. Since it’s a cover mascot of all things, the only explanation I can think of is that a developer had absentmindedly selected Miraidon’s Level 49 Power Gem and hit delete without realizing anything changed.
Same issue applies for Larvesta with Bug Bite and Hisuian Zorua with Spite in terms of level-up
There's some Paradox (and even some legendary) pokemon that are just missing random moves that are given to basically every other pokemon besides like Magikarp, and I genuinely can't tell if it was an intentional choice to show how different and strange they are or if they just made a mistake and forgot to give them those moves
Some examples:
Iron Treads can't learn Endure, Basculegion also couldn't until an update.
Brute Bonnet, Flutter Mane, Iron Valiant, Munkidori, and Pecharunt can't learn Take Down
Ogerpon can't learn Hyper Beam. Pecharunt can't learn either Hyper Beam or Giga Impact.
Quaxly and Quaxwell can't learn Substitute (Quaquaval can)
Charcadet, Bombirdier, and Orthworm couldn't learn Rest until a later update (the Tapus also didn't have them in Gen 7 but do in Gen 8)
Quaxly, Quaxwell, Iron Thorns, and Iron Treads couldn't learn Sleep Talk until a future update.
Facade is especially messy. Tadbulb, Bellibolt, Toedscool, Toedscruel, Veluza, Flutter Mane, Gimmighoul, Gholdengo, Iron Valiant, Poltchageist, Sinistcha, and Pecharunt all do not learn it, and they also forgot to give it to the Pikipek and Morelull lines in gen 7. No other pokemon that don't have intentionally empty movesets don't learn Facade.
Seeing that some of these were fixed in future updates, that probably answers the question of whether these were intended or not lol. Now I kinda wanna see a full list of gen 9 movepool oddities.
Some examples:
Iron Treads can't learn Endure, Basculegion also couldn't until an update.
Brute Bonnet, Flutter Mane, Iron Valiant, Munkidori, and Pecharunt can't learn Take Down
Ogerpon can't learn Hyper Beam. Pecharunt can't learn either Hyper Beam or Giga Impact.
Quaxly and Quaxwell can't learn Substitute (Quaquaval can)
Charcadet, Bombirdier, and Orthworm couldn't learn Rest until a later update (the Tapus also didn't have them in Gen 7 but do in Gen 8)
Quaxly, Quaxwell, Iron Thorns, and Iron Treads couldn't learn Sleep Talk until a future update.
Facade is especially messy. Tadbulb, Bellibolt, Toedscool, Toedscruel, Veluza, Flutter Mane, Gimmighoul, Gholdengo, Iron Valiant, Poltchageist, Sinistcha, and Pecharunt all do not learn it, and they also forgot to give it to the Pikipek and Morelull lines in gen 7. No other pokemon that don't have intentionally empty movesets don't learn Facade.
Seeing that some of these were fixed in future updates, that probably answers the question of whether these were intended or not lol. Now I kinda wanna see a full list of gen 9 movepool oddities.
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Quaxly and Quaxwell got Substitute in a future update as well.
So Dive, unlike Surf, is largely restricted to Water-types or Pokémon that can be heavily/reasonably associated with water (e.g. Dragonite, Lugia, Dragalge). Or they're Mew/Mewtwo/Arceus and have carte blanche to know random moves.
But then we have these fuckers.
Latias and Latios are far more heavily associated with the sky than the sea outside of the Hoenn connection. I guess they get the move for being vaguely torpedo shaped? They can also learn Waterfall so there's clearly something going on here.
Rayquaza is weird too because it's also heavily associated with the sky. I would make a joke about Dive being a reference to its bizarre implementation in Subspace Emissary, but Ray could learn the move from the word go. All that's left is its relationship with Kyogre and Groudon and having a movepool to kind of match both of them.
I got nothing with Draklok and Dragapult. Bulbapedia says they're based on amphibians and their parental care habits, but that still seems like a huge stretch for giving them Dive when they also have a sky association due to the stealth bomber influence.
But then we have these fuckers.
Latias and Latios are far more heavily associated with the sky than the sea outside of the Hoenn connection. I guess they get the move for being vaguely torpedo shaped? They can also learn Waterfall so there's clearly something going on here.
Rayquaza is weird too because it's also heavily associated with the sky. I would make a joke about Dive being a reference to its bizarre implementation in Subspace Emissary, but Ray could learn the move from the word go. All that's left is its relationship with Kyogre and Groudon and having a movepool to kind of match both of them.
I got nothing with Draklok and Dragapult. Bulbapedia says they're based on amphibians and their parental care habits, but that still seems like a huge stretch for giving them Dive when they also have a sky association due to the stealth bomber influence.
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Have you not seen Pokemon Heroes? The Latis' water association is pretty clear.
The Dreepy line are based on Diplocaulus. They fly because they're ghosts, the stealth fighter thing is exaggeration of the animal's existing qualities.
I just figured Alto Mare was something the anime staff came up with for an interesting movie setting since Venice is cool. (I've been there, can confirm.) It's not like the games ever directly reference it or allude to anything similar for Lati lore afaik, and specific ties to the anime have never been consistently applied anyway.
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