Pokémon Movepool Oddities & Explanations

There is the well known quirk of Zekrom and Reshiram being unable to use Earthquake, but I recently discovered that they could not learn Roar until Scarlet and Violet either. They got Noble Roar in Sun and Moon but not the basic Roar. It's not like Roar has been skipped as a TM either so there isn't much of an excuse for this one. I like that these two have the move now but I really wish particularly Zekrom had it in Black 2 / White 2.
 
Inspirited said:
There is the well known quirk of Zekrom and Reshiram being unable to use Earthquake, but I recently discovered that they could not learn Roar until Scarlet and Violet either. They got Noble Roar in Sun and Moon but not the basic Roar. It's not like Roar has been skipped as a TM either so there isn't much of an excuse for this one. I like that these two have the move now but I really wish particularly Zekrom had it in Black 2 / White 2.
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What do you need Roar Zekrom for in BW2?
 
Typhlosion and Earth Power

Aurorus and Power Gem

Poliwrath and Dream Eater

Lumineon and Quiver Dance

Tapu Lele and Quiver Dance

Gastrodon and Shell Smash

Garchomp and Fly

Suicune and Aqua Ring (as a regular move, not an event move)

Lapras and Solarbeam (in all games except RBY and LGPE)

What do all these pairings have in common? The fact that the Pokemon doesn't learn the associated move is stupid, that is all

(Especially the last example since Solarbeam is still a TM in GSC and USUM, meaning you can transfer a Solarbeam Lapras to those games and not reteach the move if it forgets)

Also not something that really bugs me but I saw someone suggest that Solrock and Lunatone should be able to learn Sunsteel Strike and Moongeist Beam and honestly I'm down for it, it'd be cool thematically and it's not like it'd make either Pokemon significantly better than they currently are.
 
QuentinQuonce said:
Gastrodon and Shell Smash
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Gastrodon doesn't have a shell to smash, the pattern on its back is just as squishy as the rest of it.
QuentinQuonce said:
Poliwrath and Dream Eater
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What? Learning a sleep move doesn't automatically equal learning Dream Eater, none of the mushroom Pokémon get it.
QuentinQuonce said:
Typhlosion and Earth Power
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I mean, Entei doesn't get it either. Volcano themeing doesn't automatically get a Pokémon Earth Power.
QuentinQuonce said:
Lumineon and Quiver Dance

Tapu Lele and Quiver Dance
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Quiver Dance is pretty much restricted to actual butterfly/moth Pokémon or ones that are explicitly based on dancing (Bellossom, regular Lilligant, and Oricorio). A butterflyfish or vaguely butterfly inspired tiki creature are probably a bit too far. Also Quiver Dance Tapu Lele would be kind of broken.
 
QuentinQuonce said:
Gastrodon and Shell Smash
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In fairness to this one it's noted that it doesn't have a proper shell anymore. It's just vestigial plate cells now.

& turns out Shellos name in japanese is even meant to reference not having it anymore. The English one is probably ALSO meant to do that (Shell + loss) but "los" doesn't read as "lost", personally...


Garchomp not getting Fly is honestly even dumber now since SV explicitly shows it flying around instead of it just being relegated to the Pokedex and external materials.
 
R_N said:
In fairness to this one it's noted that it doesn't have a proper shell anymore. It's just vestigial plate cells now.

& turns out Shellos name in japanese is even meant to reference not having it anymore. The English one is probably ALSO meant to do that (Shell + loss) but "los" doesn't read as "lost", personally...
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So with this one I was actually taking my thinking from the fact that Gastrodon and Cloyster are apparently closely related (if you want to believe the Pokedex, which is always a foolhardy thing to do)

Regardless I'm all for being a bit loose with move theming and I don't think you need an actual, literal shell to smash - Torterra barely does, and Barbaracle is a stretch. Fair point on the Shellos naming, but Gastrodon having a vestigial plate is more than enough to justify getting the move even via breeding IMO. Egg moves generally are about giving something a looser, tangential ability it could feasibly have with some outside help, after all.

AztecCroc said:
What? Learning a sleep move doesn't automatically equal learning Dream Eater, none of the mushroom Pokémon get it.
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Sure, but Poliwrath has always had a hypnosis theming - much more so than, say, Ninetales, Gulpin, Abra, Exeggutor, or Starmie. It learns Psychic and Psywave and various mind/willpower-focused moves like Mind Reader and Encore, I don't think Dream Eater is at all out of the question for it.

AztecCroc said:
I mean, Entei doesn't get it either. Volcano themeing doesn't automatically get a Pokémon Earth Power.
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Literally the point of my post was "it would be fitting for them", so yes I would say Entei should probably learn it too.

AztecCroc said:
Quiver Dance is pretty much restricted to actual butterfly/moth Pokémon or ones that are explicitly based on dancing (Bellossom, regular Lilligant, and Oricorio).
A butterflyfish or vaguely butterfly inspired tiki creature are probably a bit too far. Also Quiver Dance Tapu Lele would be kind of broken.
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There are countless examples of a Pokemon getting a move based on word association or theming. Being a butterflyfish didn't stop Lumineon from getting U-Turn, Silver Wind, Signal Beam, Air Slash, Air Cutter, Tailwind, and even Roost in L:A. I've long thought it could do with something more to set it apart from being a generic fish.
 
QuentinQuonce said:
There are countless examples of a Pokemon getting a move based on word association or theming. Being a butterflyfish didn't stop Lumineon from getting U-Turn, Silver Wind, Signal Beam, Air Slash, Air Cutter, Tailwind, and even Roost in L:A. I've long thought it could do with something more to set it apart from being a generic fish.
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I am a big proponent of Lumineon getting Quiver Dance, though I would also argue it kind of sets itself apart from being a generic fish by its butterfly-esque movepool. Unfortunately its stats are extremely and detrimentally "generic fish."

To add to the convo, I think it's crazy that Drowzee and Hypno have only been able to learn Dream Eater via level up in LGPE (which has other unique move choices). At this point I'm convinced that Game Freak are deliberately not giving the line Dream Eater as some kind of in-joke.
 
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Karxrida said:
I presume it's an Ubers thing. I couldn't find a current thread for BW2 Ubers, but Zekrom's analysis seems to suggest it's at least decent for the tier already.
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It could also just be a "why this move but not this one?" thing. I'm sure more than 2/3 of the move oddities noted in this thread are for moves the Mon would never really benefit from using, but are odd exclusions in concept.

Also this one isn't QUITE an oddity specific to the Pokemon but it bothers me: the Gible line is one of 3 Pokemon whose Materials are used for TM100 (Dragon Dance), yet it is the only one of the 3 lines that cannot actually learn the move, from the TM or otherwise.
 
pika pal said:
Also this one isn't QUITE an oddity specific to the Pokemon but it bothers me: the Gible line is one of 3 Pokemon whose Materials are used for TM100 (Dragon Dance), yet it is the only one of the 3 lines that cannot actually learn the move, from the TM or otherwise.
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Watch them get it in ZA
 
I was going through various coverage/TM moves in Gen 9 and stumbled on the fact that Slugma can get High Horsepower via TM, but Magcargo can't. Not sure if it's an intentional design choice meant to communicate a perplexing change from evolution or just a mistake.
 
CPU said:
I was going through various coverage/TM moves in Gen 9 and stumbled on the fact that Slugma can get High Horsepower via TM, but Magcargo can't. Not sure if it's an intentional design choice meant to communicate a perplexing change from evolution or just a mistake.
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It's very likely a mistake. Consider the fact that SV isn't exactly the most polished gen (*gestures at basically everything*). I cannot fathom why they would make a TM exclusive to a pre-evolution otherwise.
 
Showing how much I've paid attention to the move & TM list over the years but gun to my head I would have blindly assumed that Metal Claw had been either a TM or Tutor several times over before learning that SV is the first time it's ever been one.

it just feels like a tm
 
R_N said:
Showing how much I've paid attention to the move & TM list over the years but gun to my head I would have blindly assumed that Metal Claw had been either a TM or Tutor several times over before learning that SV is the first time it's ever been one.

it just feels like a tm
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Same thing for Poison Tail and Psybeam too
 
R_N said:
Sv also has had several other TM oddities, and some other movepool oddities for that matter, over its lifetime so this does seem like another for the pile.
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At least several of them were fixed or otherwise addressed in later updates, but alas we have cases like Magcargo where the Pokémon has such little popularity in general that it was completely overlooked when fixing these discrepancies.

Then there are the truly odd cases where a Pokémon lost a move between SV updates, as I just learned yesterday was the case with Miraidon. Apparently its level 49 move Power Gem was removed between two updates, leaving it with a gap between level up moves that’s not shared with Koraidon. It can still learn the move by TM, but it’s a baffling inconsistency nonetheless. Since it’s a cover mascot of all things, the only explanation I can think of is that a developer had absentmindedly selected Miraidon’s Level 49 Power Gem and hit delete without realizing anything changed.
 
reaverz said:
Then there are the truly odd cases where a Pokémon lost a move between SV updates, as I just learned yesterday was the case with Miraidon. Apparently its level 49 move Power Gem was removed between two updates, leaving it with a gap between level up moves that’s not shared with Koraidon. It can still learn the move by TM, but it’s a baffling inconsistency nonetheless.
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Same issue applies for Larvesta with Bug Bite and Hisuian Zorua with Spite in terms of level-up
 
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