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Metagame [OMotM] Battlefields
- Thread starter BriefMarigold4
- Start date
Battlefields Survey
Edit: Hello everybody! Our survey has concluded. See below for the results!
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We hope everyone is enjoying Battlefields as the metagame develops. With the banishment of Trick Room and the egregious Ubermons most able to run away with games, the meta has become much more diversified. While various offense, balance and stall archetypes are all being represented on ladder, one element is still clearly dominant across all playstyles: screens.
The meta is currently rewarding players able to most effectively utilize their screens and field effects while bypassing, overpowering or neutralizing those of their opponents.
Other less dominant, yet still controversial elements like Wide Guard and Quick Guard also reduce counterplay options for and against offense, and some other remaining Ubers.
The council has decided to create a survey to see what the playerbase thinks in order to determine the direction the tier should take. Please give it a look and help us decide the best course of action for the meta.
Survey closes Friday July 11, 11:59 P.M. -5!
Edit: Hello everybody! Our survey has concluded. See below for the results!
——————-
We hope everyone is enjoying Battlefields as the metagame develops. With the banishment of Trick Room and the egregious Ubermons most able to run away with games, the meta has become much more diversified. While various offense, balance and stall archetypes are all being represented on ladder, one element is still clearly dominant across all playstyles: screens.
The meta is currently rewarding players able to most effectively utilize their screens and field effects while bypassing, overpowering or neutralizing those of their opponents.
Other less dominant, yet still controversial elements like Wide Guard and Quick Guard also reduce counterplay options for and against offense, and some other remaining Ubers.
The council has decided to create a survey to see what the playerbase thinks in order to determine the direction the tier should take. Please give it a look and help us decide the best course of action for the meta.
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The Discord gang had a fascinating conversation/debate last night, mainly about the state of screens in this format, but also Quick Guard and Wide Guard. I also wanted to make a post here on these elements, not as council, but as a player, in the hopes of spreading that debate here, expanding it and making it more publicly visible. Ultimately what we as a community want to do regarding screens will be just as impactful to the direction of this format as the banning of Trick Room, and everyone should weigh in.
Many people have professed their dissatisfaction with perma-screens. In fact, the only thing people seem to mostly agree on is that they don’t like them. The “what” we do about screens is up for debate.
On the one hand, there is abundant counterplay, with Defog now free with Dengo’s removal from the tier, but there’s also Taunt, Brick Break, Psychic Fangs, boosting moves, Focus Energy, Cinderace, Infiltrator Dragapult, Ogerpon, Meowscarada and Weather/terrain/Tera powered super STAB. On the other hand, screens ARE the meta, and dealing with them can boil down to a tedious micromanagement minigame.
Ultimately, the debate comes down to a mater of personal preference: should the meta revolve around screens to this degree, or should it be more centered around controlling weather and terrain or utilizing Gravity and the Room effects?
I previously had advocated for the premise to include screens as Imperator Romanum was developing and playtesting the format on ROM. I argued then that because Gravity was unable to be canceled, and that Trick Room was bound to be overwhelming, screens would provide more standard teams with counterplay to these elements. Well, Trick Room has been banned anyway, and Gravity teams can be counterchecked via other means (being weak to Sun, Rain, Snow, Rillaboom) as well as individual abusers banned, so these arguments may no longer be valid.
Screens also proved to lower the immediate offensive power level of the tier enough that many lesser Ubers benefiting from field effects could be tested in the meta. While some were banned already, the remaining ones are debatably healthy, fun, and even pro-premise, as they either benefit from the various terrain effects or counter them. However, this is mostly only true if screens stand as they are. It’s probably fair to assume that if screens are adjusted, the offensive power level of the format may have to drop to match.
If you crack open the survey above, you’ll see that council is not just asking whether or not you want to ban Reflect, Light Screen, and Aurora Veil, but also presenting an option to nerf them, making them function as they do in standard play: no more permanence. Screens would revert to only lasting 5 turns, or 8 turns if the user holds Light Clay. In turn, this makes screen setters lose their item slot, and thusly, become vulnerable to hazards and more manageable all together.
The caveat: if the premise is altered to remove asymmetric effects’ permanence, per OM guidelines, then this change would be applied universally. So while screens become non-permanent, so do Quick Guard, Wide Guard, Safegaurd, Mist and Tailwind. (I think it’s safe to assume Tailwind could be freed if we pursued this route.)
Quick Guard and Wide Guard have their own issues. These moves are (mostly) uncountable, outside niche options like Hoopa, Feint and Phantom Force and just “hard no” certain elements of the game.
Safeguard and Mist are generally innocent, being able to be removed with Defog. You could argue Misty Terrain would still exist to cover status as Safeguard does. Mist is even more niche, but provides a valid option to gatekeep Sticky Web and Intimidate.
So what’s your preference? Are losing these elements acceptable collateral damage to nerf screens, in your opinion? Or would you rather keep them and just ban screens? Or do you just like the screens meta as is?
Many people have professed their dissatisfaction with perma-screens. In fact, the only thing people seem to mostly agree on is that they don’t like them. The “what” we do about screens is up for debate.
On the one hand, there is abundant counterplay, with Defog now free with Dengo’s removal from the tier, but there’s also Taunt, Brick Break, Psychic Fangs, boosting moves, Focus Energy, Cinderace, Infiltrator Dragapult, Ogerpon, Meowscarada and Weather/terrain/Tera powered super STAB. On the other hand, screens ARE the meta, and dealing with them can boil down to a tedious micromanagement minigame.
Ultimately, the debate comes down to a mater of personal preference: should the meta revolve around screens to this degree, or should it be more centered around controlling weather and terrain or utilizing Gravity and the Room effects?
I previously had advocated for the premise to include screens as Imperator Romanum was developing and playtesting the format on ROM. I argued then that because Gravity was unable to be canceled, and that Trick Room was bound to be overwhelming, screens would provide more standard teams with counterplay to these elements. Well, Trick Room has been banned anyway, and Gravity teams can be counterchecked via other means (being weak to Sun, Rain, Snow, Rillaboom) as well as individual abusers banned, so these arguments may no longer be valid.
Screens also proved to lower the immediate offensive power level of the tier enough that many lesser Ubers benefiting from field effects could be tested in the meta. While some were banned already, the remaining ones are debatably healthy, fun, and even pro-premise, as they either benefit from the various terrain effects or counter them. However, this is mostly only true if screens stand as they are. It’s probably fair to assume that if screens are adjusted, the offensive power level of the format may have to drop to match.
If you crack open the survey above, you’ll see that council is not just asking whether or not you want to ban Reflect, Light Screen, and Aurora Veil, but also presenting an option to nerf them, making them function as they do in standard play: no more permanence. Screens would revert to only lasting 5 turns, or 8 turns if the user holds Light Clay. In turn, this makes screen setters lose their item slot, and thusly, become vulnerable to hazards and more manageable all together.
The caveat: if the premise is altered to remove asymmetric effects’ permanence, per OM guidelines, then this change would be applied universally. So while screens become non-permanent, so do Quick Guard, Wide Guard, Safegaurd, Mist and Tailwind. (I think it’s safe to assume Tailwind could be freed if we pursued this route.)
Quick Guard and Wide Guard have their own issues. These moves are (mostly) uncountable, outside niche options like Hoopa, Feint and Phantom Force and just “hard no” certain elements of the game.
Safeguard and Mist are generally innocent, being able to be removed with Defog. You could argue Misty Terrain would still exist to cover status as Safeguard does. Mist is even more niche, but provides a valid option to gatekeep Sticky Web and Intimidate.
So what’s your preference? Are losing these elements acceptable collateral damage to nerf screens, in your opinion? Or would you rather keep them and just ban screens? Or do you just like the screens meta as is?
I currently favor Option 2, adjusting the premise to not include asymmetric effects and only apply to weather, terrains, room effects and Gravity. ImpRom was proposing the format work this way before I came along and mucked it up. :P
I concur with the mob, I don’t like perma-screens. I compared them to Iron/Ball in Twisted Dimension, if you played that era of that meta. If an element of a meta is near mandatory to be viable, but both sides using them essentially cancels each other out; then all you are accomplishing by allowing them is a generally more linear and bland meta.
Having said that, I also feel like fully banning any of the screens would be an overcorrection. As they are, they are simply too good. I would also hate to see Ninetales-A lose Veil and basically lose its whole niche. Snow should remain viable and Veil is a big part of that. Forcing 9A to use Light Clay over Boots is a pretty severe nerf and makes it way more manageable.
I don’t really like Quick Guard, as priority provides healthy counterplay to the weather and terrain speed abilities, and Psychic Terrain also exists and is generally more healthy, being able to be overriden by other terrains or canceled with Defog / Ice Spinner. As is, PsyTerrain feels very outshined by Quick Guard. I think losing an outright unhealthy element in favor of bumping a more manageable one is the right move.
I don’t like Wide Guard either. It just blanket “hard nos” a lot of offensive options with minimal counterplay, other than… just don’t use spread moves.
(Side note, it sucks there’s no visual indication that Quick/Wide Guard are active after the first turn. It’s very easy to forget its active.)
Losing Safeguard and Mist is a little unfortunate but these two are mostly niche and nerfing them actually serves to make Misty Terrain, Webs and Intimidate more viable, which is all around net positive IMO.
Tl;dr: Removing permanence to the asymmetric effects, or Option 2 on the survey, is the most clean, healthy, and balanced compromise for the direction of the meta.
I concur with the mob, I don’t like perma-screens. I compared them to Iron/Ball in Twisted Dimension, if you played that era of that meta. If an element of a meta is near mandatory to be viable, but both sides using them essentially cancels each other out; then all you are accomplishing by allowing them is a generally more linear and bland meta.
Having said that, I also feel like fully banning any of the screens would be an overcorrection. As they are, they are simply too good. I would also hate to see Ninetales-A lose Veil and basically lose its whole niche. Snow should remain viable and Veil is a big part of that. Forcing 9A to use Light Clay over Boots is a pretty severe nerf and makes it way more manageable.
I don’t really like Quick Guard, as priority provides healthy counterplay to the weather and terrain speed abilities, and Psychic Terrain also exists and is generally more healthy, being able to be overriden by other terrains or canceled with Defog / Ice Spinner. As is, PsyTerrain feels very outshined by Quick Guard. I think losing an outright unhealthy element in favor of bumping a more manageable one is the right move.
I don’t like Wide Guard either. It just blanket “hard nos” a lot of offensive options with minimal counterplay, other than… just don’t use spread moves.
(Side note, it sucks there’s no visual indication that Quick/Wide Guard are active after the first turn. It’s very easy to forget its active.)
Losing Safeguard and Mist is a little unfortunate but these two are mostly niche and nerfing them actually serves to make Misty Terrain, Webs and Intimidate more viable, which is all around net positive IMO.
Tl;dr: Removing permanence to the asymmetric effects, or Option 2 on the survey, is the most clean, healthy, and balanced compromise for the direction of the meta.
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While this is true, I feel as if many ubers would still be fine with screens banned- I'll outline my reasonings below
1.
Iron Bundle: Very good in a gravity / rain combo, but with quick guard definitely getting a ban / nerf, just run a rillaboom, or something with sucker punch. Priority weak, even with tera, due to its frailty. Plus, it thuds into sun teams quite frequently
2.
Lando-I: While it gets a boost to its power due to wide guard no longer restricting its usage of sandsear / sludge wave, it still gets DEMOLISHED by rain and even sun teams (snow teams are not real). Plus, its speed tier is middling enough to where you can easily outspeed it. Using sandsear requires either having a support mon with gravity (losing a teamslot), having gravity on your own lando (it does NOT like needing that turn of setup), OR running a rain team (boosts the power of your weakness). Plus, no pokemon besides smeargle learns both sticky webs AND gravity.
3.
Chien-Pao: (may be biased here as its my fav legend). While it also technically gets a boost to its power, no longer needing to run psy fangs or brick break in its sets, its not that oppressive. Perma sun is around, and it thuds into rain. It still has good utility, with ice spinner being a nice rillaboom check, but unlike gholdengo, its utility obviously doesnt invalidate the niche. Plus, being a fast sucker punch user helps keeps the other ubers in check, like sucker punching a walking wake, crunching a solgaleo, or ice spinning into a Lando-I, without being too oppressive at doing so, like Ogerpon-Hearth was.
4.
Solgaleo has had quite a turbulent history in this OM, and has found a niche throughout every banwave. It used to be a bulky trickroom-unsetter, and now it functions as bulky screens support with psy fangs as utility. After the screens / guards ban/nerf, I expect it to be used either as a mon immune to sticky webs, or a psychic terrain pokemon. Neither of which are too crazy, in my opinion. People already ran infiltrator Dragapult w/ shadow ball to do 80-90% to Solgaleo, I do not expect it to suddenly become a monster.
5.
Walking Wake: It is a standard perma-sun abuser, and even has some niches on rain teams to counter opposing sun teams. It has specs, assault vest, proto speed and proto sp. atk variants, but with screens gone, its overall bulk decreases drastically, making it easier to deal with. Chilly Reception turns off its proto-speed, and running a rain team checks it quite nicely, as its stabs thud into most rain mons (and rain mons typically have good special bulk).
6.
As someone who regularly talks in the OM discord, I've seen some contention around baxcalibur, being as it can DDance behind an aurora veil with snows defense boost. If you remove/ nerf aurora veil, Baxcalibur gets a noticable decrease in bulk, and its overall ability to DDance sweep is reduced quite a bit.
With my thoughts on the big 6 out of the way, I want to close this message by addressing some pokemon I think will actually become an issue after screens are banned / nerfed, and should be kept on a watchlist.
1. Roaring Moon: Perma sun + tera + ddance. Need I say more? Plus, it can Jaw Lock into supportive lead pokemon and set up infront of them.
2. Palafin: Perma Rain + no quick guard to stop jet punch. Sure, rillaboom can check it, but the difference between bundle abusing rain and palafin abusing rain is quite vast.
If y'all have any thoughts, let me know! I'm not that great at OM's but I've seen theres been no consensus in the discord so I figured I'd share my thoughts. If I missed anything that would make the pokemon I listed above broken, please tell me :3
Battlefields Survey Results!
Hello everyone! The survey has come to an end. Thank you everyone who responded! We had 19 responses in all.
Council will be taking your responses into consideration as we explore our next round of Tiering Action shortly.
- Enjoyment stands at 6.31 while competitiveness stands at 5.42. Clearly there is room for improvement.
The majority agrees screens need either adjusted to be non-permanent or banned in some capacity. More than half of respondents said Quick Guard and Wide Guard also need tiering action.
Magic Room scored 2.3 while Wonder Room scored a mere 1.2. The player base doesn’t think either of these elements are broken, and thus will not require a council vote.
Archaludon scored a 2.61.
Chien-Pao scored 3.58.
Iron Bundle scored 2.47.
Landorus-I scored 3.1.
Chien-Pao is the most controversial Pokemon on this list and thus the council will hold a vote on it. For the rest, council will discuss the need for a vote and proceed from there.
“Any other Pokemon or elements you would like to see addressed?”
1 mention of Palafin
1 mention of Terapagos.
1 mention of Electric Terrain.
1 mention of Sand Rush, Drought and Drizzle.
“Other comments or thoughts?”
Iron Bundle becomes considerably easier to deal with if Quick Guard is gone. Chien-Pao becomes harder to deal with Reflect gone and if Ninetales is weakened.
If quick guard gets banned, iron bundle should be fine- I put it as a 3 because of quick guard support but without it, grassy glide / mach punch / any priority (or terrain setter if it has a proto speed boost) deals with it well.
vann is very cool (Awww…. Thanks!
)
It takes a bit to get used to the centralization but I feel you can eventually learn to play/build around the screens. We may open a Pandora's box by banning them but I'd be alright with seeing what a screensless meta has to offer (or at least not a permascreens meta)
nope
keep up the good work oomfs
This is a really great metagame, and I think screens is currently a part of that. Brick Break, Psychic Fangs and Defog are really interesting counterplay, and all have their own downsides. That being said, I think it is more fitting for the format to forgo the cheese of screens, reflect, wide guard etc, because I think the premise is a lot stronger if things that cover the whole battlefield are permanent. The meta (imo) should be focused on weather, terrain, and the room moves (minus trick room, good ban, as much as I love twisted dimensions, we don't need a second one). I think the effects that effect the whole battlefield, rather than just one side should be the emphasis of the meta, which is why, as fun as permanent screens is, I think it should go. If screens go, all of the mons from above also are less metagame warping, so that's a plus. Lando (who I beleive to be the strongest of the mons above) goes to a 2 at best without screens. Incredibly strong with gravity, but lacking speed and bulk to clean house like it can now.
yall need to stop going for trying to preserve and ban wtv is uncomp and broken. wide guard no matter how niche getting rid of all spread moves is dumb, getting rid of all items the whole game for clicking a button is dumb. stoppping all priority regardless of terrain is dumb
Hello everyone! The survey has come to an end. Thank you everyone who responded! We had 19 responses in all.
Council will be taking your responses into consideration as we explore our next round of Tiering Action shortly.
- Enjoyment stands at 6.31 while competitiveness stands at 5.42. Clearly there is room for improvement.
The majority agrees screens need either adjusted to be non-permanent or banned in some capacity. More than half of respondents said Quick Guard and Wide Guard also need tiering action.
Magic Room scored 2.3 while Wonder Room scored a mere 1.2. The player base doesn’t think either of these elements are broken, and thus will not require a council vote.
Archaludon scored a 2.61.
Chien-Pao scored 3.58.
Iron Bundle scored 2.47.
Landorus-I scored 3.1.
Chien-Pao is the most controversial Pokemon on this list and thus the council will hold a vote on it. For the rest, council will discuss the need for a vote and proceed from there.
“Any other Pokemon or elements you would like to see addressed?”
1 mention of Palafin
1 mention of Terapagos.
1 mention of Electric Terrain.
1 mention of Sand Rush, Drought and Drizzle.
“Other comments or thoughts?”
Iron Bundle becomes considerably easier to deal with if Quick Guard is gone. Chien-Pao becomes harder to deal with Reflect gone and if Ninetales is weakened.
If quick guard gets banned, iron bundle should be fine- I put it as a 3 because of quick guard support but without it, grassy glide / mach punch / any priority (or terrain setter if it has a proto speed boost) deals with it well.
vann is very cool (Awww…. Thanks!
)It takes a bit to get used to the centralization but I feel you can eventually learn to play/build around the screens. We may open a Pandora's box by banning them but I'd be alright with seeing what a screensless meta has to offer (or at least not a permascreens meta)
nope
keep up the good work oomfs
This is a really great metagame, and I think screens is currently a part of that. Brick Break, Psychic Fangs and Defog are really interesting counterplay, and all have their own downsides. That being said, I think it is more fitting for the format to forgo the cheese of screens, reflect, wide guard etc, because I think the premise is a lot stronger if things that cover the whole battlefield are permanent. The meta (imo) should be focused on weather, terrain, and the room moves (minus trick room, good ban, as much as I love twisted dimensions, we don't need a second one). I think the effects that effect the whole battlefield, rather than just one side should be the emphasis of the meta, which is why, as fun as permanent screens is, I think it should go. If screens go, all of the mons from above also are less metagame warping, so that's a plus. Lando (who I beleive to be the strongest of the mons above) goes to a 2 at best without screens. Incredibly strong with gravity, but lacking speed and bulk to clean house like it can now.
yall need to stop going for trying to preserve and ban wtv is uncomp and broken. wide guard no matter how niche getting rid of all spread moves is dumb, getting rid of all items the whole game for clicking a button is dumb. stoppping all priority regardless of terrain is dumb
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Wonder Room
Alright, let's talk Wonder Room, a move that's notorious for never seeing any use because it just isn't good. I've been experimenting with this move (to varying degrees of success), and it's actually pretty fun! Unlike most of the flashy shit, it has a pretty simple premise and doesn't necessarily make your team better, but given I've seen exactly one opposing Wonder Room user on the ladder ever, I thought I'd write something up on why it's worth experimenting with and ways you can make it work!
What it does
As alluded to above, WR swaps the corresponding defensive stats of the mon. Now, you can have things like Blissey as a physical wall, or Gouging Fire soaking up special hits while it sets up. Stat boosting moves, of course, remain unchanged, and with this OM allowing WR to be permanent, it has some really cool synergy with a lot of them since these moves tend to be given to mons that share the same stat-inclined bias as the move (think Calm Mind being given to mons with usually good SpD, or Curse given to mons with usually good Def). Now, suddenly Volcarona can Quiver Dance in the face of physical attackers, or a Cursing Dondozo can suddenly blanket special attackers while it sets up, and this adds unique versatility that can make WR teams resilient against even the power level of threats seen in this OM.
Of course, I wouldn't write this section if there wasn't a bit more nuance to it. WR also introduces interactions that are otherwise not seen in regular play, such as:
which is only gonna be by your own hand because no one is using this. On the other hand, the effect affects your opponent too, and suddenly? All those damage calcs are gonna be even more confusing. Yes, that Roaring Moon that's boosting in front of you might tank a CC. You gotta be REALLY mindful of this if you're gonna build around (or face) WR, especially because the Showdown UI and damage calc doesn't necessarily reflect it.
Users
Now, let's talk about what in this generation can actually set Wonder Room, and I will preface this by saying that said selection is nothing short of pathetic:
From here, I'd say the best candidates are Uxie and Hoopa-U. I've extensively used Uxie, being the bulkiest setter with actual speed that allows it to get WR off safely while also having a myriad of other support moves it can use (Screens, Rocks, Knock, Safeguard, Magic Room, U-turn, etc.). Sample set:
Uxie @ Mental Herb
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wonder Room
- Stealth Rock
- Safeguard
- Knock Off
On the other hand, Hoopa-U can actually do more than just be a bot setter, being able to scare off shit with its power and Hyperspace Fury's ability to wipe out the (for now) perma Quick and Wide Guards. Unlike Uxie, it also benefits from the flipped defensive profile by being a physical tank now. Harder to justify a set with it though, probably something like Fury/Psychic Noise/WR/filler.
Who benefits
Here's a few mons that really reap the benefits of WR, and can compete with the high power level here. Volc, Dozo, and Garg fall in the group of powerful sweepers that can leverage their new, strong defense stat and set up accordingly (through QD, or Curse). The likes of Ting-Lu, Tyranitar, and Garg (again) can fit on Sand and form some truly bulky cores that can blanket a lot of the metagame by themselves. Blissey and Clodsire are of course part of the group of "extreme stats", and benefit the most by switching which mons beat them.
Sample Team
Peaked at #15 with something like this, though I did try out various flavors of teams on the same account. Defo think there's room for experimentation, unlike something like say, Magic Room, who lost Gholdengo and can only rly be used on gutted hazard stacks now. Plus, when are you ever gonna use Wonder Room again lol
Alright, let's talk Wonder Room, a move that's notorious for never seeing any use because it just isn't good. I've been experimenting with this move (to varying degrees of success), and it's actually pretty fun! Unlike most of the flashy shit, it has a pretty simple premise and doesn't necessarily make your team better, but given I've seen exactly one opposing Wonder Room user on the ladder ever, I thought I'd write something up on why it's worth experimenting with and ways you can make it work!
What it does
As alluded to above, WR swaps the corresponding defensive stats of the mon. Now, you can have things like Blissey as a physical wall, or Gouging Fire soaking up special hits while it sets up. Stat boosting moves, of course, remain unchanged, and with this OM allowing WR to be permanent, it has some really cool synergy with a lot of them since these moves tend to be given to mons that share the same stat-inclined bias as the move (think Calm Mind being given to mons with usually good SpD, or Curse given to mons with usually good Def). Now, suddenly Volcarona can Quiver Dance in the face of physical attackers, or a Cursing Dondozo can suddenly blanket special attackers while it sets up, and this adds unique versatility that can make WR teams resilient against even the power level of threats seen in this OM.
Of course, I wouldn't write this section if there wasn't a bit more nuance to it. WR also introduces interactions that are otherwise not seen in regular play, such as:
- Switching the effects of Sword/Beads of Ruin: in the case of this OM, this notably nerfs Chien-Pao, who is otherwise a pretty strong mon in this format. I view this as a net benefit, since WR teams should lean towards bulky archetypes, and Pao doesn't particularly fit in these.
- Changing how Body Press works: Body Press still uses your Defense stat, but WR swaps what stat changes it uses, and you actually have to boost your SpD instead in order to have a boosted Body Press. This is a nerf to Body Press, as a lot of mons that have something like Iron Defense + Body Press (IDBP) do not get the suitable equivalent Amnesia. Maybe someone can make something like Amnesia+Body Press (ABP?) Regice work lol
Users
Now, let's talk about what in this generation can actually set Wonder Room, and I will preface this by saying that said selection is nothing short of pathetic:
From here, I'd say the best candidates are Uxie and Hoopa-U. I've extensively used Uxie, being the bulkiest setter with actual speed that allows it to get WR off safely while also having a myriad of other support moves it can use (Screens, Rocks, Knock, Safeguard, Magic Room, U-turn, etc.). Sample set:
Uxie @ Mental Herb
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wonder Room
- Stealth Rock
- Safeguard
- Knock Off
On the other hand, Hoopa-U can actually do more than just be a bot setter, being able to scare off shit with its power and Hyperspace Fury's ability to wipe out the (for now) perma Quick and Wide Guards. Unlike Uxie, it also benefits from the flipped defensive profile by being a physical tank now. Harder to justify a set with it though, probably something like Fury/Psychic Noise/WR/filler.
Who benefits
Here's a few mons that really reap the benefits of WR, and can compete with the high power level here. Volc, Dozo, and Garg fall in the group of powerful sweepers that can leverage their new, strong defense stat and set up accordingly (through QD, or Curse). The likes of Ting-Lu, Tyranitar, and Garg (again) can fit on Sand and form some truly bulky cores that can blanket a lot of the metagame by themselves. Blissey and Clodsire are of course part of the group of "extreme stats", and benefit the most by switching which mons beat them.
Sample Team
Peaked at #15 with something like this, though I did try out various flavors of teams on the same account. Defo think there's room for experimentation, unlike something like say, Magic Room, who lost Gholdengo and can only rly be used on gutted hazard stacks now. Plus, when are you ever gonna use Wonder Room again lol
After internal discussion, OM Staff have decided to veto the premise changing of Battlefields, and the associated Tailwind unban. Major changes to the core concept of a metagame must have approval of OM Staff, which the council did not seek out from us beforehand. The original concept of Battlefields will remain in place until further notice.
Reflect, Light Screen, Aurora Veil and Quick Guard are banned.
Chien-Pao, Landorus-Incarnate, Palafin and Terapagos have been banned!
Sorry for the confusion before! After consulting with the OM mods, adjusting the premise is not an option at this time, but may be explored at a later date. For now we will ban all three screens and Quick Guard and all of the mons we had banned in our earlier vote.
Subject | Imperator Romanum | Snaquaza | Clas | VannAccessible | BriefMarigold4 | Result |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
 | ABS | ABS | ABS | DNB | DNB | 0-3-2 DNB |
 | ABS | ABS | DNB | BAN | BAN | 2-2-1 BAN |
 | ABS | ABS | BAN | DNB | DNB | 1-2-2 DNB |
 | ABS | ABS | BAN | BAN | BAN | 3-2-0 BAN |
 | ABS | ABS | BAN | BAN | BAN | 3-2-0 BAN |
 | ABS | ABS | BAN | BAN | BAN | 3-2-0 BAN |
Imperator Romanum and Snaquaza have abstained from this vote.
Reasonings:
Clas
Archaludon: Abstain
> weather war can really limit its viability but its also really stupid with its stab moves alone thanks to requiring a lot of predictions. leaning ban but im undecided
Chien-Pao: DNB
> doesnt love dealing with weather wars and needs boots to not quickly lose over time but ho can run the actually good lorb variant as long as theres hatt support or similar. it still is very very good but i think its answerable currently even despite tera blast ground/elec being p good on it
Iron Bundle: Ban
> this is only answerable long-term with screens, it gets taunt to force progress on boots sets and has perfect coverage in hydro + fdry with it being amazing on rain with both boots and specs
Landorus-Incarnate: Ban
> it was already broken but with screens gone its even more unanswerable
Palafin: Ban
> yeah this is just ou palafin but even dumber
Terapagos: Ban
> please no more games vs this thing i beg, it doesnt need permascreens anyway
Archaludon: Abstain
> weather war can really limit its viability but its also really stupid with its stab moves alone thanks to requiring a lot of predictions. leaning ban but im undecided
Chien-Pao: DNB
> doesnt love dealing with weather wars and needs boots to not quickly lose over time but ho can run the actually good lorb variant as long as theres hatt support or similar. it still is very very good but i think its answerable currently even despite tera blast ground/elec being p good on it
Iron Bundle: Ban
> this is only answerable long-term with screens, it gets taunt to force progress on boots sets and has perfect coverage in hydro + fdry with it being amazing on rain with both boots and specs
Landorus-Incarnate: Ban
> it was already broken but with screens gone its even more unanswerable
Palafin: Ban
> yeah this is just ou palafin but even dumber
Terapagos: Ban
> please no more games vs this thing i beg, it doesnt need permascreens anyway
Archaludon: DNB
I couldn’t get any consistent results out of Arch. Getting Electro shot to work is really inconsistent in this meta. I don’t see it getting better without permascreens.
Chien-Pao: Ban
Its coverage is a lot more malleable with screens nerfed (less need for Brick Break), and its priority is freed as it doesn’t care about PsyTerrain too much (Ice Spinner).
Iron Bundle: DNB
Bundle has more counterplay now that quick guard is gone and being weak to both Rillaboom and Raging Bolt. Using Electric Terrain to boost it is awkward.
Landorus-Incarnate: Ban
I’m changing my vote on Lando from last time, no perma Light Screen means checking it in general is harder. Now that SandSear is free with Wide Guard gone, it can 2HKO AV Alomo and Slowking. Mist being nerfed also means Sticky Web is more free to fix is its mid-speed and be more of an issue for offense.
Palafin: Ban
Jet Punch in Rain, ick.
Terapagos: Ban
While it dislikes losing screens adding its setup, it never really needed them. Compound that with Tera Starstorm being free and this guy is completely broken.
I couldn’t get any consistent results out of Arch. Getting Electro shot to work is really inconsistent in this meta. I don’t see it getting better without permascreens.
Chien-Pao: Ban
Its coverage is a lot more malleable with screens nerfed (less need for Brick Break), and its priority is freed as it doesn’t care about PsyTerrain too much (Ice Spinner).
Iron Bundle: DNB
Bundle has more counterplay now that quick guard is gone and being weak to both Rillaboom and Raging Bolt. Using Electric Terrain to boost it is awkward.
Landorus-Incarnate: Ban
I’m changing my vote on Lando from last time, no perma Light Screen means checking it in general is harder. Now that SandSear is free with Wide Guard gone, it can 2HKO AV Alomo and Slowking. Mist being nerfed also means Sticky Web is more free to fix is its mid-speed and be more of an issue for offense.
Palafin: Ban
Jet Punch in Rain, ick.
Terapagos: Ban
While it dislikes losing screens adding its setup, it never really needed them. Compound that with Tera Starstorm being free and this guy is completely broken.
Chien-Pao: Ban
Chien-Pao was just barely answerable before, it doesn't benefit from the meta but it also doesn't need to. Not being forced to run Brick Break and/or Psychic Fangs will open up so much for it.
Palafin and Terapagos: Ban (Pal and Terap) are going to go nuts once screens are gone, Terapagos in particular will go crazy if Wide Guard is no longer a thing
Something something counterplay to screens should be a hell of a lot easier if there's only 1 single setter to worry about; I'd be very sad if Wide Guard were to go, it creates incredibly interesting dynamics and isn't as warping as Quick Guard is, as a lot of the moves it blocks have non-intrusive alternatives. It also makes Terapagos actually not impossible to answer.
Chien-Pao was just barely answerable before, it doesn't benefit from the meta but it also doesn't need to. Not being forced to run Brick Break and/or Psychic Fangs will open up so much for it.
Palafin and Terapagos: Ban (Pal and Terap) are going to go nuts once screens are gone, Terapagos in particular will go crazy if Wide Guard is no longer a thing
Something something counterplay to screens should be a hell of a lot easier if there's only 1 single setter to worry about; I'd be very sad if Wide Guard were to go, it creates incredibly interesting dynamics and isn't as warping as Quick Guard is, as a lot of the moves it blocks have non-intrusive alternatives. It also makes Terapagos actually not impossible to answer.
Pinging dhelmise for implementation!
Last edited:
BriefMarigold4 is taking over as the leader of Battlefields!
I won’t have the necessary free time dedicate to Battlefields come August, so the plan was always to hand the reigns over to another who could!
BriefMarigold has been a valued council member and an active player. With approval from the OM staff it was agreed that they would do a great job leading Battlefields in the future. I endorse her wholeheartedly and wish her the best of luck!
I won’t have the necessary free time dedicate to Battlefields come August, so the plan was always to hand the reigns over to another who could!
BriefMarigold has been a valued council member and an active player. With approval from the OM staff it was agreed that they would do a great job leading Battlefields in the future. I endorse her wholeheartedly and wish her the best of luck!