Pet Mod Trading Post (Slate 1)

Oricorio Feather proved to be both very niche and yet very oppressive at the same time. Just converting Normal-type moves into the primary type of the holder is simple, but Normal is home of some very powerful moves like Extreme Speed, Boomburst and Explosion. Users of these moves such as Noivern can prove very oppressive to fight against.

Here is my suggestions for it: Only Normal-type moves with 70 BP or lower are converted to the user’s primary type, but such converted moves are boosted by 1.3x to compensate. It’s similar to old -Ate Abilities multiplier, but for most other weaker moves that don’t see serious uses and for unblockable Rapid Spins.

Leaf Coat can make existing Grass-type Pokémon rather redundant as the non-Grass Pokémon has a strong 1.5x Defense boost. Maybe make it so there is a downside for non-Grass Pokémon to counterbalance the multiple nenefits it can provide.

I’m lost on Twist Band, though maybe make it so stat reducements caps at -1 instead of making the holder immune to those all together, reducing spammability while staying true to it’s main concept.
 
Twist Band - Make it once per switch in. Basically just a White Herb that can be used more often, incentivizing switching more often to keep receiving the benefit.

Oricorio Feather - Specifically doesn't affect Boomburst and Extreme Speed. We don't need Aerilate Noivern (its much more reasonable without a boosting item, but still stupid) nor do we need -ate speed. Rapid Spin and Explosion are a bit goofy, but are fine.

Leaf Coat - Can be left alone, but if people really think its too much, make it also lower the holder's Spe by 0.5x if they're a non-Grass-type.
 
:fairy-feather: Oricorio Feather : Making it not work on Boomburst and Extreme Speed is the boring option. Having new tools is part of the fun of the meta, so instead I would simply do the inverse of Samtendo09's idea : Affected Moves with 70 BP or more have their power multiplied by 0.8. (starting at 70 BP so we don't give free STAB Facade to every physical attacker)
With this change, Boomburst becomes 112 BP, so Noivern still gets value of this item to have a 100% accurate clone of Hurricane, and Extreme Speed becomes 64 BP, so you can still have Scizor at home while still needing another good STAB to deal better damage.
(boosting weaker moves would be also nice for better Rapid Spin and Fake out, but I think having both effects would make the item too complex)

twistband.png
Twist Band : I think keeping the effect BUT making it so that every attack used inflicts recoil damage (similar to double-edge, where's it's a percent of the damage dealt) would make the item more balanced and have good drawbacks for every use case.

leafcoat.png
Leaf Coat : My biggest issue with this item is that it's basically a stat stick for non grass types : the x1.5 def boost is way too strong (even if you can knock it off). My second biggest issue is that it's basically useless on grass types.
I think replacing the defense boost by a 1/16 MaxHP recovery every turn would make the item more balanced and less splashable (you can't put it on any defensive mon since you need to worry about the added weaknesses). If you want a less heavy rework, reducing the boost to x1.2 works too.
For the grass types, also adding the 1/16 MaxHP recovery OR adding the x1.2 defense boost would make the item more attractive for them.
 
taliyeet said:
:fairy-feather: Oricorio Feather : Affected Moves with 70 BP or more have their power multiplied by 0.8. (starting at 70 BP so we don't give free STAB Facade to every physical attacker)
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I think it's fine for Facade to stay at full power w oricorio feather, since the mons that best use the move (Guts, Poison Heal) would rather have the consistent proc from Flame/Toxic Orb. Probably just bump the threshold to 80 BP so it hits ESpeed. Maybe accessible stab facade was strong in the roomtour though, I wasn't there so I wouldn't know.

taliyeet said:
twistband.png
Twist Band : I think keeping the effect BUT making it so that every attack used inflicts recoil damage (similar to double-edge, where's it's a percent of the damage dealt) would make the item more balanced and have good drawbacks for every use case.
Click to expand...
Cool rework imo, makes it more interesting than just permanent white herb. Could specifically be a 1/6 recoil damage per stat that would be lowered, turning draco meteor and similar moves into their type's double-edges. CC is still preferred on this over Superpower but you also have the option of Hammer Arm, which is lower power but also lower recoil.

leafcoat.png
Like I mentioned in my sub review, the grass type's resistances can be desirable on some mons, so the 1.5x def boost is a little over the top to compensate for the added weaknesses. I would replace the defense boost with a base 1/16 recovery per turn, regardless of user. This change both buffs the item's viability on Grass mons as a better leftovers, and nerfs its benefits on non-Grass mons.

Also Squawkerz the discord link in the thread is expired, can you update that?
 
Beebos said:
I think it's fine for Facade to stay at full power w oricorio feather, since the mons that best use the move (Guts, Poison Heal) would rather have the consistent proc from Flame/Toxic Orb. Probably just bump the threshold to 80 BP so it hits ESpeed. Maybe accessible stab facade was strong in the roomtour though, I wasn't there so I wouldn't know.
Click to expand...

I put the threshold at the Facade not because it's broken atm but moreso because it could be potentially annoying in the future. It's still a 70BP move, so I don't think that many mons would want to use it. Putting the reduction threshold at 80BP is fine.

Beebos said:
Cool rework imo, makes it more interesting than just permanent white herb. Could specifically be a 1/6 recoil damage per stat that would be lowered, turning draco meteor and similar moves into their type's double-edges. CC is still preferred on this over Superpower but you also have the option of Hammer Arm, which is lower power but also lower recoil.
Click to expand...

Thanks ! I think dealing 1/12 maxHP for each stat lowered (like a weaker Steel Beam recoil) is also a possibility, that can also be applied to status moves like Shell Smash without having to create special rules for it, or at least not having 2 different systems : we can change the damage values to deal more damage if a status move was used (1/6 maxHP per stat) so that every use case has fair drawbacks.

I agree with the Leaf Coat change, don't have much to say about this one.
 
I disagree with capping the BP of Oricorio Feather because you miss out on several unique moves that limit the item significantly. One of the more interesting uses for the item (a more niche use, but still a use) is providing stab to weaker mons without good stab. Cutting Double-Edge and Body Slam from being affected leaves these mons without a way to use the item well. You end up being forced to use something like Slash as your only option. I see where you're going, but this route leaves the only real uses for the item being unblockable Spin and Quick Attack. Also boosting the power of the moves helps with this problem, but I'm not a fan of it. I like what Rass said on discord where the item doesn't provide a STAB boost to the converted moves more or taliyeet's idea where moves above a certain point are weakened, but that still sucks for the reasons I initially mentioned. I'm not really sure there's a way to keep the good interactions while getting rid of the bad interactions without specifically forcing it not to happen.

I do like the idea of making Leaf Coat heal instead of giving a Def boost as well. The new effect would be "Grass: Natural Cure effect. Non-Grass: Adds the Grass-type and Leftovers healing." Beebos mentioned giving the healing effect to Grass-types as well, but I'm not a huge fan of that. I would only give the leftovers effect to non-Grass mons.

Twist Band causing recoil for stats that would've been lost is neat, but not my favorite thing in the world. I'd be fine with that effect, but it feels like it makes the item just read "turn your downside into a different but less problematic downside" and feels not super strong.

Twist Band and Oricorio Feather are kinda neat ideas on paper, but are hard to make in a way that isn't busted. For Leaf Coat, I underestimated how good a 1.5x Def boost is for how many mons find a solid use out of the added Grass-types.
 
I gotta say, I'm personally really against Taliyeet's situational cap for Oricorio Feather. It feels arbitrary in a way items just typically aren't. "All moves of a type are affected, but certain moves also have this secondary effect." It's a super clunky way to fix it. It's certainly better than just denying certain moves from using it though (no offense Palp) because that feels even worse. Could you imagine if Life Orb just randomly didn't work for Earthquake and Psychic?

Of the proposed suggestions, I do like Samtendo's the best; it's a bit awkward still but feels the most "real". I do agree with Palp, though, that it limits some potential cool applications of the move due to the crimes of a couple notable abusers, and think we should continue to brainstorm ideas.

On that note, I'm going to propose something I'm not sure if it has been discussed (I've only been skimming the Discord sowwy): is banning the problematic mons not on the table? If the problems are Noivern and Dragonite, why not ban those two? Judging from Sam's post and my own intuition it seems very user-dependent, which seems like a mon ban and not an item change situation to me.

Past that, an idea I had was to make it single-use (with a power boost?). Not particularly interesting but it brings Z-Moves to mind, which come from the same gen that gave us Oricorio, so there's a bit of thematic cohesion. I guess. Idk I just think we should ban Noivern and move on lol

Don't have strong feelings on the other two. Turning stat-drop moves into recoil moves and replacing the defense boost with residual healing are the most appealing ones but don't feel strongly enough one way or another.
 
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