Pet Mod [Gen 3] Hoenn Echoes | Slate 1 Submissions now open!

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Welcome to Hoenn Echoes, a pet mod based around Generation 3 Ubers! The primary goal of this pet mod is to try and keep the core gameplay of Gen 3 Ubers, but to both give it a twist and attempt to lessen the impact RNG has on the game. Users will submit their ideas on how to retool Pokemon within this tier's context to make them more usable, or to add entirely new things to the tier. The mod will run for about 10-15 slates.

Council:
:litwick: qsns
:scizor: Xrn
:lurantis: SEA

Because the tier is based on Gen 3 Ubers, the mod will use Gen 3 mechanics unless explicitly stated otherwise. There have been some RNG elements changed, which can be found in the spreadsheet here. Since the goal of the mod is to attempt to keep it close-ish to the original tier, submissions will have to adhere to the metagame's pre-existing power level and not disrupt the balance already in place.

The slates for submission will be based on different parts of the existing metagame, i.e. a slate based on Sun, a slate based on adding new items, or a slate based on Rock-types.

The submission rules and guidelines are as follows:

- Each user can submit up to 3 entities for the given slate.

- The submission must list some checks/counters (or in the case of items, worthwhile alternatives) using tools already existent (and good) in the tier, as to ensure something doesn't go completely unanswered if it is added.

- We want the mod to still feel like it's a Gen 3 metagame. Try not to go too crazy with anything brand new that you're submitting.

- To further elaborate, we want the pet mod to feel accessible to people who have played Gen 3 Ubers before. As such, new Pokemon that are added should be recognizable in their roles, (such as Araquanid not being a Ghost/Dragon type who clicks Draco Meteor) and should be both fairly straightforward to understand and in-line with the general Generation 3 power level.

Some examples: Solar Power (normal) and Solar Power but for rain would be good, Protosynthesis/Rain variation would similarly be acceptable.
Creating a brand-new, not in vanilla game mechanic for a specific Pokemon would not be.

Name:
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Stats:
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New Moves:
Role:
Checks/Counters:

Name:
Type:
Stats:
Abilities:
Full Movepool:
Role:
Checks/Counters:

Name:
Type:
Power:
Accuracy:
Effect:
Priority:
Potential Distribution:
Reason:

Voting Rules / Timeline

The submission phase will last 5 days. Most vetoes will most likely come from creating something with too high of a power level, and those will happen on the 5th day. You will get the rest of the time before voting to attempt to fix the submission.

The voting phase will last 2 days. Voters will submit in a ranked voting system, where they submit their favorites ranked 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. We will take at least the top 3 submissions at the end of the voting phase and add them to the mod. Voting for yourself is OK, but the highest you can put yourself is 3rd. For clarity, if you were to submit a Pokemon with its own signature move, let's say Illumise with Continental Crush, if Continental Crush was exclusive to Illumise, it would count together as 1 submission. If Continental Crush was instead given to 6 or 7 Pokemon, Continental Crush would count as its own change and be voted on as such.

Join the discord here!
 
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Resources
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Preliminary VR made by the Council, will be updated as we add changes

Gen 3 Ubers Resources
Gen 3 Ubers Sample Teams
 
Slate 1: The (not Swift Swim) Rock Types
:rs/tyranitar: :rs/regirock: :rs/armaldo: :rs/aerodactyl: :rs/golem: :rs/rhydon: :rs/aggron::rs/solrock:
Rock types have a very unique place in ADV Ubers. Unlike the usual Steel type Normal resists, they resist Snorlax's Fire moves, making them pretty secure answers to the otherwise problematic blob. Offensively, it's entirely possible that your opponent doesn't have a Rock resist, such as on a Forretress Rain Offense team, or they have a singular resist, such as a Metagross Rain Offense or a Groudon Sun Stall. However, their (usually) very low speed, weak STAB, and poor Special Defense make them very easy targets to prey on. Not to mention their terrible Groudon matchup, as most of the Rocks' best option for Groudon is to click Explosion, Focus Punch, or Toxic. Defensively, in comparison to Steel types like Forretress, Metagross, or Jirachi, they have many more weaknesses such as Water, Steel, and Fighting and cannot check nearly as many meta-relevant threats as they can. While they might in turn resist Ho-Oh's Sacred Fire, Rock being a physical type means that they cannot safely swap into it as a Burn would ruin them for the rest of the game. As such, you seldom see Rock types in the tier outside of the occasional Kabutops Rain, where it can use its superior speed in Rain to clean up an endgame after the opposing kaiju and Steel type have been chipped, or an Omastar Rain which utilizes its ability to Thief Latios Soul Dew and set Spikes.

The goal of this slate should be to make the Rocks more potent but not overbearing. If a Rock type can muscle through Groudon on its own, it is too strong. We want them to make better use of positive matchups into top Pokemon such as the Normal blobs or Flying Legendaries, whether it be as an offensive punish or defensive response. These Pokemon should generally try to be somewhere between A- and B in viability (floating between 3-10% usage)

Also, now linked in the OP is the link to the discord!
 
Name: Golem :golem:
Type: Rock/Ground
Stats: +15 Special Defense, +15 HP
Abilities: Immunity, Rock Head
New Moves: +Rapid Spin, +Curse, +Sludge Bomb, -Endure
Role: Strong anti-passive pokemon. Spin + Immunity means Golem can stay forever on pokemon like Skarmory and Forretress and keep spikes off the field, and Golem can also sit on Pokemon like Blissey, Jirachi and Lugia with their toxic sets. It can also stay in on certain Dragon Dance Rayquaza sets, and its high defense stat lets it act as a soft check to choice band pokemon. Immunity to Electric can make Golem a solid pivot into Thunder as well in a pinch. Extra stats give it a better benchmark into followup special attacks, allowing it to be a more reliable spinner.

Curse gives it the option to go for a setup set (and it should never have lost it from GSC imo). Sludge Bomb is added for flavor with Immunity. Removed Endure because Golem no longer has Sturdy (flavor).
Checks/Counters: Groudon is still incredibly strong into Golem, as well as many of the premier offensive special attackers in the tier like Kyogre Mewtwo and Lati@s. Choice Band Metagross is also quite problematic for Golem. Additionally, Golem will constantly be pressured by rain builds.

Name: Corsola :corsola:
Type: Rock/Ghost
Stats: 80/95/60/120/130/30 (This is the stat spread of Cursola, +20 HP -25 SpAtk +10 Def)
Abilities: Natural Cure/Washed (This Pokemon gains STAB on its Water Type moves)
New Moves: +Hydro Pump, +Curse, +Destiny Bond, -Refresh

Role: High special bulk lets it soft check Lati@s, especially in Sun. However, Sun comes with an opportunity cost for Washed. Also soft checks Mewtwo. Calm Mind and Barrier should be useable sets, as well as Natural Cure Recover as a Pivot to force out Lati@s and Mewtwo, probably in combination with Spikes for the latter as well as to bait in common checks. STAB Shadow Ball helps force these Pokemon out. Reasonable Deo-A pivot on expected Superpower, but has to be careful about Shadow Ball followup.

Also Hustle Explosion is funny. Mods hate fun so Hustle Explosion is no longer funny.

Checks/Counters: Groudon and other physical attackers destroy Corsola, though obviously Groudon cannot switch in easily to Washed sets. Metagross and Snorlax especially still take advantage of Corsola. Very ill-equipped to fight Blissey outside of clicking Explosion. Very susceptible to Spikes, and removed Refresh so its susceptible to Toxic on Calm Mind or Barrier sets. Kyogre is still a menace to Corsola. Tempting to switch it into Rayquaza but Earthquake prediction drops it immediately. Slower than most Pokemon, making it prone to being revenge killed.

Also Hustle Explosion can miss, which is funny. Mods hate fun so Explosion can no longer miss.
 
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:rs/regirock:
Name: Regirock
Type: Rock/Fighting
Stats: 80/110/150/50/100/50 | 540
Abilities: Clear Body
New Moves: N/A
Role: Giving Regirock a Fighting typing allows it to apply a lot more pressure with the Fighting moves it already has to utilize on its offensive sets, Superpower and Focus Punch. By being able to find more damage on Groudon, it should be better equipped to try and slowly beat down bulkier teams with other physical teammates like Snorlax, especially double bird stalls. Outside of the fat matchup, it will find entry on mostly Snorlax and Blissey.

Checks/Counters: Regirock is still checked pretty hard by Groudon, with even Choice Band Superpower failing to 2HKO max HP Groudon (and doing comparable damage to CB Tyranitar Focus Punch), and a decrease in bulk makes it harder for it to set up and duel Pokemon like Metagross or Groudon. It struggles into Kyogre very heavily still, especially bulkier variations. By being more incentivized to click Fighting moves rather than Rock moves, it can even be answered by Reflect Lugia if the Regirock isn't running Rest. The Fighting typing does not do it any favors on the defensive end, as now Regirock is neutral to Flying and is a much worse Rayquaza/CB Ho-Oh check and can now be dropped cleanly from the somewhat rare Psychic from Latios and Psycho Boost from Deoxys-Attack.

:rs/lunatone:
Name: Lunatone
Type: Rock/Ice
Stats: 90/50/80/115/95/80 | 510
Abilities: Levitate / Ice Body
New Moves: +Icy Wind, +Blizzard, +Hail, +Moonlight, -Hypnosis
Role: A Rock type that can check some variants of Groudon and potentially turn it into a setup opportunity while also threatening the Latis. It also checks Snorlax, Rayquaza, can enter on Forretress, and can swap into specifically Ice Beam Latios in the Sun.

Added Ice moves to match its new typing, Moonlight because it’s a Moon, and took away Hypnosis to prevent it from disabling hard answers like Metagross or Blissey. Ice Body is a nice little bit of flavor as well, and unless Hail (or snow) is added at some point, it will remain there for flavor.

Checks/Counters: Kyogre, Blissey, and Metagross all completely stop it. The small attack nerf reduces the damage its already weak Explosion would do to Kyogre and Blissey (about 60% to Blissey, 55% to max HP Kyogre). Dragon Claw Latios still cleanly 2HKOes it and prevents it from swapping in, and Rock Slide Groudon destroys it. It is very easily revenged by Deoxys-Attack, or Brick Break Rayquaza. It is forced to use Explosion or run a Substitute set in the face of Pokémon such as Toxic Ho-Oh.
 
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:rs/armaldo:
Name: Armaldo
Type: Rock/Bug
Stats: 75/110/100/70/100/45 (special defense is buffed by 20 while attack is reduced by 15)
Abilities: Battle Armour
New Moves: Signal Beam, Refresh, now able to use both Rapid Spin and Knock Off on the same moveset together
Role: Armaldo will now act as a soft Latios/Latias check while being a Ho-oh check too, that can either generate progress with Knock Off or Rapid Spin. It can then threaten back big damage to the Latis, but not outright KO them, meaning you do still need support in that regard but it can take a hit in a pinch. With Refresh in its arsenal, it can also hard stop CM sacred fire ho-oh, as even +1 hits do 52% max before leftovers. It does struggle with Choice Band variants still, but it can take Sacred Fire easily, or take one banded attack in a pinch.
Checks/Counters: Groudon still is an immense counter to this mon, as with the reduced attack stat and need to go specially defensive, you aren't doing much back without Toxic, which is hard to fit with all of Signal Beam, Refresh, Rock Blast and Knock Off or Rapid Spin requiring usage. If you do fit Toxic in, then you can put it on a timer at least. Metagross also hard checks it, being able to take any attack easily and threaten an OHKO with Meteor Mash. Skarmory and Forretress do not appreciate taking Knock Off, but they can usually stomach any attacks it has and pivot out to something else that can threaten it. Forretress can just PP stall Armaldo and threaten chip damage with HP bug. Armaldo's main issue as stated above, is its moveslot issues. After Signal Beam and Refresh, two necessary moves on it, you need to fit Rock Blast, Knock Off, Rapid Spin and Toxic. This means teams have to choose what moves they require.

:rs/solrock:
Name: Solrock
Type: Rock/Fire (shoutouts to R8 for the Fire type idea+Morning Sun idea that I totally forgot about)
Stats: 70/105/95/55/65/100 (10 more attack, 10 more defense and 30 more speed)
Abilities: Levitate
New Moves: Taunt, Night Shade, Refresh, Rapid Spin, Morning Sun
Role: Solrock will now act as a Raquazza and Groudon check (note, check, it does struggle into certain variants). With access to Taunt, Refresh and Night Shade, Solrock can take any one hit from Groudon, and threaten it back with either Toxic or Night Shade. Rayquazza has to use Rock Slide to damage it at all, with Solrock being able to take even one hit from CB rock slide variants and threaten back with an OHKO by using Explosion, or a 2HKO with Rock Slide. You also do exceptionally well into both Skarmory and Forretress, being able to click Rapid Spin on them, which can provide immense team support. Snorlax has to specifically be Shadow Ball, as otherwise you really just perma-wall it with Taunt+Morning Sun, and Explosion does massive damage in return.
Checks/Counters: Choice Band Rock Slide Groudon's still do insane damage to it, but you can at least put it on a timer. Special attacking Raquazza sets also blow this mon up. Latios, Deo-A, Kyogre, all threaten the hell out of this mon.
 
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aerodactyl.png

Name: Aerodactyl
Type: Rock/Flying
Stats: 85 (+5) / 105 / 85 (+20) / 80 (+20) / 85 (+10) / 130 | 570
Abilities: Rock Head / Natural Cure
New Moves: Drill Peck, Refresh
Role: does what aero does but with its extra bulk and natcure it has the ability to switch into stuff like hooh/groudon lacking rock slide so it can possibly run a lefties subtoxic set or something. also extra spa means it can click flamethrower against stuff like metagross/skarm/forretress
Checks/Counters: unchanged physical offenses means band sets get walled by the same things while nonband sets are even weaker
 
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:rhydon:
Name: Rhydon
Type: Rock/Ground
Stats: 105/130/60/45/120/40 (500)
Abilities: Intimidate / Rock Head
New Moves: Thunder Wave
Role: essentially flipping around the role with added special bulk to make it a better check to mixed attackers like hooh and rayquaza, and able to clock switchins in return with huge earthquakes and rock slides
Checks/Counters: same as before, but physmons are better at handling it on occasion
:lunatone:
Name: Lunatone
Type: Rock/Steel
Stats: 85/75/65/105/105/75 | 510
Abilities: Levitate
New Moves: +thunderbolt, Meteor Mash, Recover -hypnosis
Role: a conventionally potent check to a lot of mons in the tier due to the unique ability to resist both ground and dragon, while not dying to fire moves. Doesn’t have a conventional stab anymore but has extremely usable coverage in electric and ice. Has conventionally useful resistances too, but can easily be sniped by a fighting type move
 
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tyranitar.png.m.1706150269

Name: Tyranitar
Type: Rock/Dark
Stats: 105(+5) /109 (-25) / 110 / 115 (+20) / 105 (+5) / 56 (-5) (BST 600)
Abilities: Sand Stream
New Moves: -Fire Blast -Flamethrower -Fire Punch
Role: This Tyranitar does what it did before disrupting Drizzle and Drought, but now has more of a presence as it's able to threaten Latias and Latios with Crunch and Pursuit. I chose to remove its Fire-type coverage as this allows Forretress to set Spikes in front of it or remove it with Counter off an HP Fire.
Checks/Counters: Kyogre and Metagross can completely stuff it. Spikes hamper its ability to successfully check Latios and Latias, meaning it desperately wants a rapid spin user to support it. If Tyranitar lacks HP Fire, Forretress can use Tyranitar as fodder for spikes. Tyranitar also struggles with Deo-A and CB Rayquaza if it's locked into Earthquake.
 
:shuckle:

Name: Shuckle
Type: Rock (No longer bug)
Stats: 50 (+30) / 10 / 230 / 10 / 230 / 5 = 545?
Abilities: Shell Armour
New Moves: Heal Bell
Role: Rock pivot into a lot of weaker attacks and status. Heal bell user to allow for the team to shed para, at the opportunity cost of you having to run shuckle. Rest talk abuser.
Checks/Counters: Anything powerful that can take advantage of it resting to set up. DS Groudon or CM Kyogre for example. Latios has good rolls to 3hko shuckle unless shuckle invests only in spdef.
 
Name: cradily

Type: rock/grass

Stats: +20 special defence +20 special attack

Abilities: suction cups, water absorb/bw storm drain

New Moves: +leech seed +leaf blade +curse

Role: this would serve as a pivot into water types and directly threaten some of them with leaf blade, with bw storm drain it could also function as a deterrent to strong water moves as it would increase its special attack. The addition of curse would let it run a physical curse set that could ramp up.

Checks/Counters: while it can switch into Kyogre it is still 2hko by ice beam, latios and Mewtwo can both switch in and threaten heavy damage with ice beam. Max attack groudon can still 2hko 252hp cradily with earthquake and both metagross and heracross threaten it with their respective stabs.



Name:Aggron

Type: electric/rock

Stats: +30 special attack

Abilities: magnet pull, rock head

New Moves: n/a

Role: this would serve as a more bulky magnet pull Pokemon designed to trap skarmory and forretress and hit them with its wide special move pool. Its massive physical defense also makes it out at pivoting into metagross meteor mash as it is neutral. It’s rock/electric typing also lets it come in a couple of times on electric coverage and potentially threaten lati@s and Mewtwo with mixed coverage.

Checks/Counters: it is very slow compared to most other things in the metagame and is 4x weak to ground meaning it would have to be careful coming into snorlax and metagross as they may have earthquake to hit it. Groudon also hits it with massive ground moves and kos it. Kyogre and other strong special attackers with water moves also threaten it as it has low special defence.

Name: aggron
Type: rock (drops steel)
Stats: +20 attack
Abilities: rock head, solid rock
New Moves: +head smash, +bulk up
Role: removing the steel type makes aggron at least usable as a tank without its crippling 4x weaknesses it has to ground. The easiest place to fit this would be on para spam where you could use a cb set to smack things with its high power recoil moves it can spam with its ability.
Checks/Counters: it still retains its weakness to fighting and ground moves, struggles to hit metagross and groudon for big damage. Requires team support to use. It still has a low hp and spdef stat so any strong special attack will threaten massive damage. Additionally Kyogre and other water types ohko it.
 
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Name: Spiritomb :spiritomb:
Type: Ghost - Rock
Stats:
108/108/108/108/108/18
Abilities: Pressure, Insomnia
Full Movepool: Calm Mind, Curse, Destiny Bond, Disable, Facade, Frustration, Hidden Power, Memento, Night Shade, Pain Split, Protect, Psychic, Pursuit, Return, Shadow Ball, Sleep Talk, Substitute, Taunt, Toxic, Will-o-Wisp, Attract, Confuse Ray, Double Team, Dream Eater, Endure, Feint Attack, Flash, Grudge, Hyper Beam, Icy Wind, Imprison, Nightmare, Psybeam, Rain Dance, Rock Tomb, Scary Face, Shock Wave, Snatch, Spite, Sunny Day, Swagger, Thief, Torment, Water Pulse, Rock Slide (new), Sandstorm (new).
Role: Spiritomb uses a new typing, Ghost/Rock. Defensively, Ghost allows Spiritomb to switch into all Explosions and Forretress's Rapid Spin (but not Water Mons one). Blissey with Seismic Toss is also unable to damage Spiritomb, Heracross has both STABs walled, while Deo-A can,t use Superpower or Extreme Speed. Rock gives resistance to Fire (though Spiritomb is still unreliable vs Ho-oh) and Flying, meaning it can check some Rayquaza and Lugia sets. Insomnia is the last defensive value of Spiritomb, it allows it to easily switch into the rare Smeargle, Hypnosis Gengar and Jynx, but Chlorophyll Sleep Powder Mons aren,t walled. Pressure is alternative ability if team has other Sleep countermeasures.
Spiritomb serves as a big threat with Band Shadow Ball and Rock Slides, but due to having excellent Stats (558 BST, below all legendaries and pseudos, but way above all other existant Mons except Arcanine, who is very close), can serve other roles, since it learns the rare (in Adv) WoW and can destroy Deoxys with Pursuit, despite not being STAB anymore. Spiritomb forces Snorlax to use either Shadow Ball or EQ and threatens every single Psychic Mon of the Tier except Metagross (who it can still burn). Flying types are the other match-up in which Spiritomb excels, Lugia, Rayquaza and Ho-oh are all threatened by Rock Slide.
Checks/Counters:
Biggest check to Spiritomb is Toxic. If you look the Full Movepool section, you will notice the lack of Rest. This is done on purpose, I believe all Ghost except the ones that evolve from non-Ghost (which in Gen 3 is only Shedinja) should not learn Rest, just like Mons who have Sleep preventing abilities (like the Insomnia I gave Tomb). Lacking Rest, Toxic and burns put Spiritomb on timer, Heal Bell from Blissey only has 8 PPs. Pain Split is a recovery Mon but the huge HP Spiritomb has is actually detrimental for this.
The next problem about Spiritomb are the 6 weaknesses. Every Mon Spiritomb checks has some coverage for it: Deoxys has Shadow Ball, the Latis have Surf, Mewtwo also learns Shadow Ball, Rayquaza, Heracross, Lugia and Ho-oh learn EQ (Ho-oh already threatens Spiritomb enough with a burn), Snorlax is forced to use Shadow Ball or EQ, but at least learns them. Spiritomb forces coverage on all of these Mons, but doesn,t actually fully wall them, just checks.
As for actual counters, Groudon and Metagross only fear Wow. If they have Lum Berry or use Restalk, they fully wall Spiritomb. Restalk Pdef Kyogre is another counter, while Omastar is a good check on Rain teams. Spiritomb is weak to Dugtrio's EQ and Tyranitar's Pursuit, but 108/108/108 bulk allows him to tank some hits.
The other problem Spiritomb has is the one stat in which its weak, Speed. Spiritomb is slower than every single Mon except Trapinch and Shuckle. This means that it will be taking hits, without the option of using Rest, combined with Spikes, its not too hard to wear down despite the impressive Stats.




Name: Magcargo :magcargo:
Type: Fire-Rock
Stats: 60/50/130/110/100/30
Abilities: Volcanic / Flame Body
Custom Ability: Volcanic: The Pokemon is immune to Water (like Levitate).
New Moves:
Recover, Solar Beam, Memento.
Role: First thing, first, the new ability. Here is the Pokedex entry from Sapphire: Magcargo's body temperature is approximately 18,000 degrees F. Water is vaporized on contact. If this Pokémon is caught in the rain, the raindrops instantly turn into steam, cloaking the area in a thick fog.
So, basically, lore says this Mon should be immune to Water. Desolate Land makes sense... but Magcargo is not legendary enough.
With the new ability, Magcargo is one of the best Water check that exists, while also annoying Sun Mons with its great offensive power. Almost fully walls Kyogre and Omastar. Non EQ Snorlax is walled too. 130 Defense allow Magcargo to tank some strong physicall hits unless they are Earthquake. It has no Special weaknesses, so Gengar is fully walled and Chlorophyll Mons well checked. Recover with 32 PPs allows Magcargo to stick around longer if its not hit by effective attacks but if its not needed, it can explode with Self Destruct (though it won,t be doing much damage with 50 Attack) or help a teammate boost with Memento.
Checks/Counters:
Earthquake deletes Magcargo and many Mons learn it, including Kyogre. Band Deoxys-Attack with Superpower almost always OHKOs, non Band still damages Magcargo very hard. Special boosters like the Latis and Mewtwo end up overwhelming our snail too.
Non monoatacker Kyogre will boost with CM and kill Magcargo with Thunder. Monoatacker, while not being allowed to sweep, will engage in a Stall war that will drain both Pokemon's PPs.
Toxic is the other weakness, 32 PP Recovers don,t save the snail from being vulnerable to it.
Dugtrio can,t switch into Magcargo, but obviously revenge kills.
 
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:rs/solrock:
Name: Solrock
Type: Rock/Ghost
Stats: 80/120/95/70/65/80| 510
Abilities: Levitate, Flash Fire
New Moves: +Morning Sun, +Curse, +Destiny Bond, -Hypnosis
Role: Solrock is meant to be a frail offensive pivot that gets to utilize the odd set of metagame factors that makes STAB Shadow Ball such a potent attacking option within ADV Ubers. Similarly to how Metagross regularly switches in on Snorlax/Rayquaza as an offensive pivot, Solrock would also be able to take advantage of these openings to dish out these attacks. The addition of Flash Fire allows Solrock to have an easier time dealing with Ho-Oh without fearing Sacred Fire, although you still have to be cautious around Shadow Ball. The loss of Levitate is not particularly impactful either, as you already have a sketchy matchup against the 2 Pokemon likely to run Earthquake (Metagross and Groudon, who regularly carries HP Ghost for the Lati's)

Added noteworthy ghost moves to fit the new typing, Morning Sun to give a fitting healing option, and removed Hypnosis due to the potential to use it as a inconsistent and frustrating way to make progress against answers that.

Checks/Counters: Ironically, both Kaijus serve as solid answers to this updated Solrock. Kyogre will be able to tank a couple of hits from Solrock's STAB and will be able to threaten it out with Water STAB. In addition, the capability to set rain weakens the healing effect of Solrock'sMorning Sun for future switch ins. Solrock's physical attacks will bounce off of Groudon, who will make quick work of it with Earthquake. Even Levitate Solrock isn't safe from HP Ghost. Metagross similarly is poised to switch in as a physical tank that can threaten Solrock with STAB Meteor Mash, if you can avoid switching into an EQ that is. While Forretress and Skarmory need to be wary of potential fire coverage, they are solid answers in the instance that it sufficiently scouted or the rain is up. As a result of its middling bulk, it struggles to find opportunites to switch in that its defensive typing does not account for, usually dying to 2 invested special attacks, or physically invested ghost moves from the likes of Mewtwo, Deoxys, and Gengar that all outrun it.
 
:SV/Aggron:
Name: Aggron
Type: Rock/Steel
Stats: 70/110/180/60/60/50 (530)
Abilities: Sturdy / Earth Eater / Impenetrable
Custom Ability: Impenetrable (Magic Guard clone)
New Moves: +Curse, +Spikes, +Dragon Dance, +Meteor Mash
Role: Earth Eater not only makes it immune but recover HP from the Ground-type attacks that would otherwise decimate it. Curse and Dragon Dance give it sweeping options. Impenetrable makes it immune to indirect damage that would otherwise chip it down.
Checks/Counters: Its Special Defense is still slow, and it still has no reliable recovery.

:SV/cradily:
Name: Cradily
Type: Rock/Grass
Stats: 96/101 (+20)/97/101 (+10)/107/33 (-10) (535)
Abilities: Suction Cups / Seaweed
Custom Ability: Seaweed (Takes half damage from Fire-type moves. Grass-type moves do double damage to Fire types).
New Moves: +Curse, +Calm Mind, +Surf, +Hydro Pump
Role: Curse and Calm Mind give it more set-up options, and Suction Cups prevents it from phased out. Seaweed prevents Fire-types from switching as easily on its Grass type moves.
Checks/Counters: Cradily is still slow and vulnerable to chip damage and Toxic.

:SV/Barbaracle:
Name: Barbaracle
Type: Rock/Fighting
Stats:
72/135/115/54/86/68 (530)
Abilities: Tough Claws
Full Movepool: Cross Chop, Superpower, Brick Break, Rock Slide, Stone Edge, Waterfall, Swords Dance, Seismic Toss, Low Kick, Spikes, Rock Tomb, Earthquake, Aerial Ace
Role: Barbaracle trades its Water type in for a Fighting type to better take advantage of Tough Claws.
Checks/Counters: It's quite slow before boosting and vulnerable to Ground, Water, and Psychic attacks, which are abundant.

Name: Rock Wrecker
Type: Rock
Power: 120
Accuracy: 100%
Effect: Cannot be used twice in a row.
Priority: 0
Potential Distribution: Rhydon, Golem, Aggron, Sudowoodo
Reason: Rock Wrecker reimagined as a Gigaton Hammer/Blood Moon clone. Gives Rock types a reliable option that can't be spammed.
 
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Name: Tyranitar
Type: Rock / Dark
Stats: 130 (+30) / 144 (+10) / 90 (-20) / 80 (-15) / 90 (-10) / 66 (+5) | 600 (+0)
Abilities: Sand Stream
New Moves: +Refresh (Pupitar level 1), +Shadow Ball (TM), -Fire Blast
Role: Tyranitar is a Pursuit user, a Snorlax check, and a Latios check. As a Pursuit user, its targets are CB DeoA, Gengar and Dusclops, and to some degree Latios. CB DeoA loses if it is forced to lock into Shadow Ball or Double-Edge; Gengar and Duclops are more reliably forced out by Shadow Ball, with even burned Tyranitar doing 40% to 252 / 0 Gengar and quite cleanly 2hkoing Dusclops unless they Wisp on the switch; and Pursuit able to 3hko Dusclops on the switch with enough correct guesswork. As a Snorlax check, its Attack and ability should prevail, but it needs max Attack or Brick Break to 3hko 252 / 120 Snorlax. Against Latis, Shadow Ball threatens enough that is should be able to force even 252 HP Latias out and Pursuit it, but Pursuit's damage can be somewhat weaker than desired, and it needs fairly significant investment to avoid a 2hko from Modest Latios Dragon Claw. Tyranitar is also quite a good Ho-Oh check with Refresh.
Checks/Counters: Most general-purpose physical walls should beat Tyranitar. Groudon is a significant issue, as it takes fairly little from any attack barring CB Focus Punch and immediately disrupts Tyranitar's Sand. Steel-types mostly prevail, though Rock Slide can be threatening enough to win with enough interactions. Even Blissey can check Tyranitar with low Attack investment, though if Tyranitar is running Refresh it may not be able to win. Generally, Tyranitar is quite vulnerable to chip damage, with it needing to switch into fairly strong attacks and status and taking Spikes with no recovery. Tyranitar also had some issues with its moveslots; all of Pursuit, Shadow Ball, Rock Slide, Refresh, Flamethrower/Earthquake, Groudon coverage like Toxic or Focus Punch, Brick Break are desirable, and depending on what it drops it may be easier to check - without Flamethrower / EQ it has difficulty getting past Metagross, for instance. It also has issues with both needing multiple interactions to complete its job of Pursuiting but also being vulnerable to being overwhelmed during those interactions. It may also end up with issues EVing, wanting bulk to check Latios moves and random Earthquakes, wanting Attack to threaten, wanting Special Attack to Pursuit, and wanting Speed to creep base 70s.
Commentary: i don't like really strong Pursuiters, i think they would make the tier more matchuppy - if you run ghosts you're gambling on no pursuit - and more guessy - you have to click pursuit at the right time. the intention of this design is to make the second decision much more weighted towards switching; stuff just generally takes a lot from staying in on sball compared to how much it takes from switching on pursuit. this also leaves open the possibility of outplaying since you don't die to the first suit interaction, which decreases the extent to which the tier ends up more matchuppy. The bulk changes are just to make it a bit bulkier (while retaining pseudo bst), to make it more possible to prioritize one defense over the other if desired, and to make it less convenient to ev. speed bump is also to make it more of a pain to ev by incentivizing creeping 70s more. fire blast removal is to make it a bit worse into steels plus make it not have to gamble when clicking fire move.

Name: Lunatone
Type: Rock / Psychic
Stats: 80 (+10) / 65 (+10) / 75 (+10) / 115 (+20) / 125 (+40) / 80 (+10) | 540 (+100)
Moves: +Perish Song (level 55), +Water Pulse (TM), -Explosion, +Self-Destruct (level 49), -Hypnosis; +Evening Twilight (level 19) [as Morning Sun but recovers 2/3 in rain, 1/2 in sun, 1/4 in neutral weather, Hail, or Sandstorm; dark-type], +Moonlight Arrow (level 61) [90 bp Dark move, high crit chance, 16 pp]
Role: A special wall of sorts, intended to fit on rain primarily (but not exclusively). Levitate and 2/3 recovery make it hard to chip. Perish Song lets it phaze or remove lastmons, or CM + Moonlight Arrow let it beat special attackers; but in either case its low recovery pp will be an issue long-term. With Perish Song, it can serve as a check to some physical attackers as well - Snorlax and Groudon - although pp again will be an issue and it is vulnerable to stray Ghost coverage. Its bulk and typing leave something to be desired; its typing gives it no weakness to common special attacking types but no resistance to them either. Its Special Defense is enough to with maximum investment take minimal chip from switching in on Latios Thunder, using Evening Twilight, then using some non-recovery move as Latios switches out. Lunatone has difficulty putting immediate pressure even on the Pokemon it checks, needing to either phaze or boost to threaten them. +1 Moonlight Arrow fails to 2hko even uninvested Latios, though Calm Mind Latis may not want to war with Lunatone given its high-crit-rate super-effective attack. Lunatone may even fall to 252+ Latios if it Calm Minds on the switch, Thunders as Lunatone itself Calm Minds, then Thunders again. Lunatone also gets Self-Destruct, so walling it with dedicated special walls may be difficult.
Checks: Lunatone has fairly low offensive presence, so responding to it is generally fairly straightforward. Pokemon with overall good special bulk can generally take it on - Moonlight Arrow's damage agains Specially Defensive Groudon is not particularly impressive, and Kyogre takes even less and threatens to annihilate it with Surf. General-purpose special walls can generally win out; Lunatone can only beat Snorlax by phazing it with Perish Song or after many Calm Minds, and its counterplay to Blissey is minimal beyond using Self-Destruct. Forretress can threaten to set up against Lunatone, and Metagross can Meteor Mash it into oblivion, with neither taking very much damage from anything Lunatone can throw at them. Lunatone is also very vulnerable to Toxic in particular, although it may end up paralyzed by Latios' Thunder. Finally, although it recovers high amounts of HP, Lunatone's recovery move has 8 pp, and it cannot continue taking strong hits over a long game. Moonlight Arrow similarly has fairly low PP (and is affected by Pressure) so stalling it of its Moonlight Arrow PP is somewhat plausible.
Commentary: Lunatone is intended to be an alternate specially-defensive option for rain teams particularly. i'm not entirely happy with the amount i'm adding to lunatone, with two signature moves and +100 (!) bst increase. still, i think the role it serves is interesting enough i'd like to propose it. rain is hampered by special wall choice generally, and i'm hoping that a vaguely specially biased spikes-immune specially-defensive pokemon may be able to enable rain (special) offense a bit. lunatone probably fits on sun as well, with its bulk going a lot farther if it doesn't have to take thunders. i don't think it'll be very good on (sun) stall, since 8pp on its recovery move is very limiting. i switched explosion for self-destruct to make it a bit worse at forcing in specific responses and a bit less powerful when it's able to target its boom effectively. the stat spread is intended to mostly be a stronger version of the existing spread - +30 to the special stats and +10 to the other stats, then SpA and SpD flipped. the designis intended as well to make the user have to manage Lunatone's PP extensively, with both signature moves and new Perish Song having low PP. a couple changes were intended to give it options, with psong as an alternative to cm and water pulse in case it wants a rain-boosted attack to hit steels (though hpwater would probably be better). i'm expecting it to be (sometimes) used alongside spikes, so possibly with skarm as a partner.
 
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:bw/armaldo:
Name: Armaldo
Type: Rock/Bug
Stats: 75/125/100/70/95/45 (+15 spdef)
Abilities: Battle Armor/Shed Skin
New Moves: Thunder Wave, Megahorn (Rapid Spin + Knock no longer not compatible)
Role: Long Term Snorlax check who lacks a ground weakness with offensive utility, Megahorn can catch the various tier psychics while freeing up a hidden power slot while T-Wave can both catch Ho-oh and Oger switches as well as generally provide a team with speed control. While less effective generally, with some spdef investment and Shed Skin, can run Rest Talk sets which can also switch into CB Moltres due to fearing a burn less. Also retains previous utility with both Knock Off and Rapid Spin but struggles from 4MSS.
Checks/Counters: Still strongly checked by the Kaijus and especially Groudon who can come in on a T-wave, is also still unreliable against Ho-oh especially on Battle Armor sets. Dislikes Metagross but can pressure it longterm. Generally due to still lacking stats has to choose between several utility options as you lack the innate bulk to switch-in on attacks like Metagross EQ repeatedly


:bw/Probopass:
Name: Probopass
Type: Rock/Steel
Stats: 60/85/145/90/150/40
Abilities: Magnet Pull/Polarity
Custom Ability: Holder is immune to Ground type attacks until they are hit successfully with an attack. Refreshes on switch.
Full Movepool: (Nosepass's movepool + Rapid Spin, Pain Split)
Role: As a trapper, while your lower special attack makes you less effective against Skarmory, requiring Thunder to get a KO with Self Destruct, your access to Fire Punch and Rapid Spin makes you a more reliable trapper against Forretress. Furthermore, Polarity sets can asked as mixed defensive removal who can spread status with Thunder Wave or Toxic to specifically hit Groudon and explode on switch-ins like Metagross for relatively solid damage. Special defensive sets can ironically enough act as a decent option against Banded Groudon (however any non choiced set can take advantage of you incredibly easily due to your ability being temporary)
Checks/Counters: Due to your noticably low HP, you are not as effective as a mixed wall as you'd like. Specially defensive sets can become set-up fodder for Groudon and Ray to a lesser extent, and if you run toxic to catch groudon you suddenly become far less effective as a check to Snorlax. Spdef sets in general long term due to self destruct. While not minding a burn, physdef sets lose to CM Ho-Oh, as you can struggle fit a rock move in your moves. In general, your low offenses mean you can struggle from 4MSS in order to avoid being passive. However your surprisingly vast movepool allows you to pull out nieche options like Ice Punch for Rayquaza.

:bw/Sudowoodo:
Name: Sudowoodo
Type: Rock
Stats: 80/115/115/30/110/30 (+45 spdef, +10 hp, +15 atk)
Custom Ability: Pseudo (Take 0.5x damage from Electric Water and Ground moves)
New Moves: Leech Seed, Synthesis, Giga Drain, Bulk Up
Role: Mixed bulky sub seeder who acts as a bulky rock not weak to Ground. Can be decent into one of Groudon or Kyogre depending on how you EV it, being neutral or resistant to Ice Electric and Water generally makes it a thorn in the side of waters like Omanyte due to reliable recovery and seed. Enjoys the relative drought of grass types for it to be able to Leech Seed without issue, and is one of the few mons able to chip Lax due to Immunity. Is also relatively unfazed by Ho-Oh due to only being half of a grass type, but you can struggle to fit on rock slide.
Checks/Counters: Bulk on either side requires significant investment to really be able to switch into things, meaning you have to choose which things you can check to suit your team. Also even after maximum investment, threats like Metagross, and the Lati twins are still able to kill or 2HKO you. Niecher, but chlorophyll users, especially Exeggutor and Victreebell are your worst enemies, as they are unable to be set on and can either spread status on a switch or set-up on you as you still retain a grass weakness.
 
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Name: Corsola :corsola:
Type: Rock/Water

Stats: 80 (+15)/85 (+30)/85/105 (+40)/110 (+15)/30 (-5)
(Can 2hko at +1 with shadow ball Latios with 0 atk evs and can 2hko with icebeam at +1 with 136 spatk evs)

Abilities: Natural Cure/Hustle/Volt absorb (Lighting rod would be more fitting but I want it to give it electric immunity so if possible go with new gen version of lighting rod with the immunity and spatk buff on hit)

New Moves: +Curse, +Hydro pump

Role: An amazing check to Mewtwo, Latios and Latias (if the latter doesn't have roar) being able to take all their major attacks and setup in their face with both calm mind or curse thanks to its weirdly already good move pool. It can also function well against non-CB Ho-Oh if you go for refresh or be an okay Snorlax answer with curse sets.

Checks/Counters: Without a turn of set up it is rather passive and unable to meaningfully hurt Groudon, especially if it's a curse variant. All variants are also pretty much useless vs Kyogre, special sets aren't great vs Bliss while physical ones struggle to fit all the coverage they need to deal with Metagross and are just overall not great vs Skarmory. Lastly, move slots are a problem just in general with lots of options Corsola would like to fit: aside for the mandatory recover all would like refresh and potentially toxic for Kyogre, and on top of that special variants would like calm mind, surf/hydro pump, ice beam, and physical ones would also like rock slide, shadow ball, earthquake, curse.
It's type is also still pretty mediocre.
 
Name: Tyranitar :tyranitar:
Type: Rock / Dark
Stats: 100/134/115/100/90/61 (+5 Defense, +5 Sp.Attack, -10 Sp.Defense. 600 BST)
Abilities: Sand Stream / Guts
Custom Ability: Sand Stream - On switch-in, this Pokemon summons Sandstorm. 1.3x Special Defense in Sandstorm.
New Moves: Low Kick
Role: New Sand Stream allows defensive Tyranitar sets to more properly check Mewtwo and Lati@s, though lack of recovery and not having infinite EVs still limit it. A slight stat point redistribution allows it to take stray EQs better and forces Lati@s to respect Pursuit a bit more without allowing it to threaten new OHKOs on any other Pursuit targets. Meanwhile Guts, from it's first stage Larvitar, can turn CB sets into a dangerous status punish (Body Slam, Thunder, Sacred Fire, Toxic, etc.) which offense often lacks. CB Tar is already a decent enough mon but is rarely worth including over other options, so hopefully Guts bolstering it's matchup against fat makes it easier to justfy. Low Kick is learned by Tyranitar in later generations and gives it a fantastic click into Normals/Steels/Kaijus.
Checks/Counters: Tyranitar still matches up poorly into Kyogre and Groudon, has to fear the omnipresent Earthquake, and is held back by lack of reliable recovery. Defensive sets need Wish support or Rest to last in a long game and Choice Band has to be mindful of chip damage from Spikes, Toxic, or even resisted hits.

Name: Ancient Power
Type: Rock
Power: 110
Accuracy: 90
Effect: Lowers the user's Defense and Sp. Defense by 1.
Priority: 0
Potential Distribution: Kabutops, Omastar, Aerodactyl, Armaldo, Cradily, Regirock, Regice, Registeel, Relicanth, Mew, Celebi, Claydol, Piloswine, Dunsparce
Reason: Rock Slide being the strongest Rock move in the game at 75 is pretty laughable even for ADV standards. New Ancient Power provides a stronger alternative at the cost of having a chance to miss (can't have a format where the strongest Rock move is 100% accurate SMH) and dropping your defenses after unleashing past energy. This move is mainly meant to give the fossils something extra to work with and distribution should be more limited than the original move, as Rock coverage is really powerful in the tier and something like Groudon retaining this buffed Ancient Power would be wild. Non Fossil distribution is mainly for flavor, though Regirock and Mew would definitely be viable users.
 
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:sv/iron-boulder:
Name: Iron Boulder
Type: Rock / Psychic
Stats: 90 / 120 / 80 / 68 / 108 / 124
Abilities: MG2 Air Balloon (Levitate clone)
Full Movepool: Horn Attack, Leer, Rock Throw, Quick Attack, Slash, Agility, Counter, Rock Tomb, Swords Dance, Megahorn, Take Down, Scary Face, Protect, Facade, Aerial Ace, Endure, Sandstorm, Brick Break, Body Slam, Sleep Talk, Rock Blast, Rest, Taunt, Substitute, Iron Defense, Psychic, Earthquake, Hyper Beam, Double-Edge, Rock Slide, Secret Power, Cut, Strength, Hidden Power
Role: Fast breaker/cleaner like an Aerodactyl that traded some speed for SD and a higher BST. Its typing also matches up better into Latios and Latias, letting it switch in and immediately apply pressure with Megahorn if necessary. Offensive teams can use it to weaken physical walls or attempt to sweep. Normal- and Flying-types give it more potential entry points, with Air Balloon making it more effective into those running Earthquake.
Checks/Counters: Like vanilla Iron Boulder, it can struggle to deal enough damage to certain targets- Groudon and Kyogre in particular can tank a hit from it at +2, with the latter always being able to KO in return. The common Steel-types can also be built to trade favorably with it. Deoxys-A, Mewtwo, and the weather sweepers are fast and strong enough to usually revenge kill it. Finally, it fears all status effects unless it has a Lum Berry.
 
Time for vetoes! (and adjustments)
Abilities: Natural Cure/Hustle/Washed (This Pokemon gains STAB on its Water Type moves)
The council does not mind the ability here, but we would like to keep Pokemon to only 2 abilities to be in line with Gen 3. Otherwise, the submission feels good.
Name: Armaldo
Type: Rock/Bug
Stats: 75/110/100/70/100/45 (special defense is buffed by 20 while attack is reduced by 15)
Abilities: Water Absorb
The council likes this submission but feels that Armaldo losing Battle Armor (one of its key defining traits) while also gaining an immunity to its biggest weakness may be too much. The rest of this submission is great, but we feel that Water Absorb should be changed.
Name: Lunatone
Type: Rock/Steel
Stats: 85/75/65/105/105/75 | 510
Abilities: Levitate
New Moves: +thunderbolt, Meteor Mash, Recover -hypnosis
The council feels that this submission is heavily overtuned, as the typing and available moves gives you an actual hard wall to Groudon and Snorlax. 32 PP Recover really takes it over the edge, but it might be fine with less stats and a worse recovery move. Vetoed for now.
Name: Spiritomb :spiritomb:
Type: Ghost - Rock
This submission both is not really in-line with the original vision of the slate (changing the Rock types already existent in the tier, sorry if that was not clear), but it is also extremely obnoxious to handle. Wisp is an extremely high pressure move and something with these stats and ability to nuke Ho-Oh should not get access to it. Vetoed.

Name: Magcargo :magcargo:
Type: Fire-Rock
Stats: 60/30/150/120/100/30
Abilities: Volcanic / Flame Body
The ability is kind of fine, but the stat increases and access to CM and 32 PP Recover are not. It legitimately hard walls almost every Pokemon on Sun offense (Fire normal Snorlax, fire mash Meta, Ho-Oh, Latios in Sun, HP Fire Forretress), and it even prevents Groudon from being a convincing switch in due to its gigantic Sp. Atk stat and Sun boosted FIre moves. It is vetoed for now, but with heavy nerfs it would be fine. Its rain matchup is still pretty bad, but it is definitely too dominant vs Sun.

Name: Aggron
Type: Rock/Steel
Stats: 70/110/180/60/60/50 (530)
Abilities: Sturdy / Earth Eater / Impenetrable
Both 3 abilities and the abilities being way too good is the problem here. I don't necessarily dislike the idea of adding another Spikes user (even if this one is still probably pretty mid), but Earth Eater/Magic Guard are both too strong of abilities and not very interesting for the Pokemon. Vetoed.
Name: Cradily
Type: Rock/Grass
Stats: 96/101 (+20)/97/101 (+10)/107/33 (-10) (535)
Abilities: Suction Cups / Seaweed
We like the idea of the ability here but still feel like this Pokemon would be very bad, especially considering the quality of Grass moves in this generation. It's not necessarily a veto, but we think the idea could use some touch-ups.
Name: Barbaracle
Type: Rock/Fighting
Stats:
72/135/115/54/86/68 (530)
Abilities: Tough Claws
Same thing as above, both not really in-line with the vision of the slate and Shell Smash in Gen 3 is way too much. Vetoed.
Name: Rock Wrecker
Type: Rock
Power: 120
Take Tyranitar off the list and this is perfectly fine.
Name: Probopass
Type: Rock/Steel
Stats: 60/75/145/75/150/40
Abilities: Magnet Pull/Polarity
We are OK with the submission (to be clear, we are fine with Probopass because Nosepass is a Pokemon already in generation 3), but we still feel as though this Pokemon would be pretty bad. It could use some more offensive stats (not too many) and maybe the addition of Pain Split, a move it receives in the next generation.
Name: Sudowoodo
Type: Rock
Stats: 70/100/110/30/100/30 (-5 def +35 spdef)
Custom Ability: Pseudo (Take 0.5x damage from Electric Water and Ground moves)
Similarly to the Probopass, we are pretty fond of the unique ability added here. However, we also feel like this Pokemon would definitely be pretty bad and should receive some more stat increases. If given Curse or Bulk Up in addition, don't raise the stats too much, but without any way to set up physically it should receive a bit more assistance.
Name: Corsola :corsola:
Type: Rock/Water

Stats: 80 (+15)/85 (+30)/85/105 (+40)/110 (+15)/30 (-5)
3 abilities, but we also feel as though the idea is somewhat uninteresting.
Name: Iron Boulder
Type: Rock / Psychic
im not joining bw draft

The ones that are not actually vetoed will still go through to voting, we would just prefer there to be some touch-ups. The ones that are vetoed will need to get major adjustments to be allowed to go through to voting, which will start roughly in 24 hours or sometime my Saturday afternoon.
 
Removed 10 points from Magcargo's Special Attack and changed 20 points from Defense to Attack. Removed Calm Mind too and added Memento instead. This surely is balanced now, to ensure it is, I didn,t add Explosion (it still has Self Destruct in Gen 3).
 
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